omg cracked.com really? December 19, 2012 6:04 PM Subscribe
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I just got an FPP of this deleted, which is fine, but is there any point in reworking and resubmitting? Should I just wait until '25 most hilarious autocorrects' has slid down the page a little?
Cracked.com gets (largely unwarranted IMO) bad press for being a link farm, but at its best it's very good. And David Wong posts written in his 'parent to adult children' mode are very good indeed.
I just got an FPP of this deleted, which is fine, but is there any point in reworking and resubmitting? Should I just wait until '25 most hilarious autocorrects' has slid down the page a little?
Cracked.com gets (largely unwarranted IMO) bad press for being a link farm, but at its best it's very good. And David Wong posts written in his 'parent to adult children' mode are very good indeed.
I changed your link to go to your deleted post because otherwise it looks sort of weird here to be linking to the same thing we just deleted on the blue. People kept claiming it was a double and if I were you I would not repost it because, yeah, Cracked.com. I get that some of their stuff is good, but a lot of it is just linkbait and we're sort of getting overrun with year end lists
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:08 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:08 PM on December 19, 2012
This article was really, really good, and I don't even like Cracked. If it's a double, surely someone can link to the original?
posted by desjardins at 6:20 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 6:20 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
The original was also deleted for being shitty. The system works!
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:22 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Sternmeyer at 6:22 PM on December 19, 2012
gdit
posted by elizardbits at 6:24 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 6:24 PM on December 19, 2012
Also, by person he apparently means "heterosexual man" because this is a pretty one-sided list of reasons to improve yourself. If we're going to do kind of blah lists of kind of mean advice, can't it at least be equal opportunity?
posted by ChuraChura at 6:24 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 6:24 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
If we're going to do kind of blah lists of kind of mean advice, can't it at least be equal opportunity?
"The demographic that Cracked writes for is heavy on 20-something males."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on December 19, 2012
"The demographic that Cracked writes for is heavy on 20-something males."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on December 19, 2012
we're sort of getting overrun with year end lists
I say delete them. All of them. Seriously.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:35 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
I say delete them. All of them. Seriously.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:35 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's a double isn't it?
posted by unSane at 3:06 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
Is it a double?
posted by zarq at 3:07 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
AFAICT It's a double of something that was deleted, which is identical to not being a double since it's not currently on the blue.
lot of it is just linkbait and we're sort of getting overrun with year end lists
But it's not... either? Maybe I'm missing the general principle I should be extracting here.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by unSane at 3:06 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
Is it a double?
posted by zarq at 3:07 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
AFAICT It's a double of something that was deleted, which is identical to not being a double since it's not currently on the blue.
lot of it is just linkbait and we're sort of getting overrun with year end lists
But it's not... either? Maybe I'm missing the general principle I should be extracting here.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on December 19, 2012
That list of advice seemed like stuff the hateful broskis would spout in college.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by dunkadunc at 6:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Having read the article, I'd say Matt was wrong for deleting it in the first place due to his reasoning being very subjective. The post should be undeleted.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
"That list of advice seemed like stuff the hateful broskis would spout in college.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:37 PM on December 19 [+] [!] "
Is an example of the sort of thing it would be interesting to disagree with, but can't b/c of deletion.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by dunkadunc at 3:37 PM on December 19 [+] [!] "
Is an example of the sort of thing it would be interesting to disagree with, but can't b/c of deletion.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
If we're going to do kind of blah lists of kind of mean advice, can't it at least be equal opportunity?
I like the idea of mean lists that are still oddly equal opportunity in nature. Like:
1. Bite me
2. Or, if you have no teeth, sort of gum me
3. Or, if you have no teeth and gum disease, uh... go fuck yourself
4. Or, if if you have no teeth and gum disease, and you have ED... shit, man! I'm really sorry!
5. Of course, if you're not a man, that last bit didn't really apply to you, either. Let me think about it for a minute...
6. *sigh* Never mind
7. Although, if you're at all like me, maybe you have trouble letting things go, sometimes. I get it. Really - I do. Still, try to get past this. I know I will
8. Hug it out?
9. If you're a spider, forget I said that last bit
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:44 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
I like the idea of mean lists that are still oddly equal opportunity in nature. Like:
1. Bite me
2. Or, if you have no teeth, sort of gum me
3. Or, if you have no teeth and gum disease, uh... go fuck yourself
4. Or, if if you have no teeth and gum disease, and you have ED... shit, man! I'm really sorry!
5. Of course, if you're not a man, that last bit didn't really apply to you, either. Let me think about it for a minute...
6. *sigh* Never mind
7. Although, if you're at all like me, maybe you have trouble letting things go, sometimes. I get it. Really - I do. Still, try to get past this. I know I will
8. Hug it out?
9. If you're a spider, forget I said that last bit
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:44 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
I'd say Matt was wrong for deleting it in the first place due to his reasoning being very subjective
Well, he does own the place.
posted by desjardins at 6:45 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well, he does own the place.
posted by desjardins at 6:45 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
9. If you're a spider, forget I said that last bit
poor misunderstood spider.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:46 PM on December 19, 2012 [14 favorites]
poor misunderstood spider.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:46 PM on December 19, 2012 [14 favorites]
I think that there should be a single FPP for all the End of Year Lists so that people who like lists can read them and people who hate them can read other things or determine that the internet is nothing but EoY lists and they should go for a walk or something. If you could also arrange it so that this worked for TV and newspapers as well, that'd be great. (If this leaves enormous gaps in programming and makes the paper really short, well, I'm okay with that.)
posted by gingerest at 6:46 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 6:46 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
I think that there should be a single FPP for all the End of Year Lists so that people who like lists can read them and people who hate them can read other things or determine that the internet is nothing but EoY lists and they should go for a walk or something.
posted by gingerest at 3:46 PM on December 19 [1 favorite +] [!]
^
Ayup
posted by unSane at 3:55 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
But it's not an end of year list.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:57 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 3:46 PM on December 19 [1 favorite +] [!]
^
Ayup
posted by unSane at 3:55 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
But it's not an end of year list.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:57 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Honestly, if whoever wants it posted, you should rethink the presentation. Structure the post around the Glengarry Ross scene, which has had a lot written about and boom! The post practically writes itself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:10 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:10 PM on December 19, 2012
Yeah, sorry I didn't know the author was some sort of famous guy, but it looked like a half-assed cracked list of dodgy pseudo advice.
We already delete a lot of buzzfeed and cracked posts that are short lazy little lists of things, I expect something to at least be interesting and insightful or meaningful in some way to make the cut and this didn't feel like it to me.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:14 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
We already delete a lot of buzzfeed and cracked posts that are short lazy little lists of things, I expect something to at least be interesting and insightful or meaningful in some way to make the cut and this didn't feel like it to me.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:14 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Always Be Posting.
posted by curious nu at 7:14 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by curious nu at 7:14 PM on December 19, 2012
Always Be Commenting.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Awright, I'mma do a DWong/that-hipster-hatin'-psychiatrist-dude-he-quotes/GGR megapost. It's going to kick all kinds of ass.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:25 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Sebmojo at 7:25 PM on December 19, 2012
Here I am waiting to see the "7 most frequently deleted Cracked.com lists" list.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 7:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well, at least you can't fault Matt for not closing (threads).
posted by vidur at 7:28 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by vidur at 7:28 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here I am waiting to see the "7 most frequently deleted Cracked.com lists" list.
I'm waiting for the seventh of them...
posted by pompomtom at 7:35 PM on December 19, 2012
I'm waiting for the seventh of them...
posted by pompomtom at 7:35 PM on December 19, 2012
Godspeed, Sebmojo!
Also, the weird thing about that list's reading of the Alec Baldwin monologue is that every man in that room is a total asshole, but they're all different kinds of asshole, and Wong decides to celebrate one kind over another. Baldwin, after all, is just telling those guys what they hear every day: An Always Be Closing poster is hanging on the wall behind the blackboard. The only innovation is Third Prize You're Fired.
While Baldwin's attitude may be healthier than Lemmon's, it's still the attitude of a deeply unhealthy man, and it would have been nice if Wong had acknowledged that. Because as it is, the piece reads as advice from a sophomore dudebro.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, the weird thing about that list's reading of the Alec Baldwin monologue is that every man in that room is a total asshole, but they're all different kinds of asshole, and Wong decides to celebrate one kind over another. Baldwin, after all, is just telling those guys what they hear every day: An Always Be Closing poster is hanging on the wall behind the blackboard. The only innovation is Third Prize You're Fired.
While Baldwin's attitude may be healthier than Lemmon's, it's still the attitude of a deeply unhealthy man, and it would have been nice if Wong had acknowledged that. Because as it is, the piece reads as advice from a sophomore dudebro.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, by person he apparently means "heterosexual man" because this is a pretty one-sided list of reasons to improve yourself.
Aside from one isolated reference to "getting girls," what are you talking about?
posted by John Cohen at 7:49 PM on December 19, 2012
Aside from one isolated reference to "getting girls," what are you talking about?
posted by John Cohen at 7:49 PM on December 19, 2012
Well, this made me check it out, and it sucked. Everyone already knows you should work on stuff. This guy just said it in shitty writing in a bad layout.
posted by ignignokt at 7:51 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by ignignokt at 7:51 PM on December 19, 2012
Everyone already knows you should work on stuff.
Well no, that was the point. The article was talking to a very specific set, who will find every excuse not to do stuff.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well no, that was the point. The article was talking to a very specific set, who will find every excuse not to do stuff.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I found it quite insightful. I was very surprised to see it deleted, not once, but twice. I was thinking of posting it myself, actually, because there's some good stuff to discuss in there, but automatic GRAR & kneejerk dismissal on MeFi really sucks IMO.
Point #4 about "Nice Guys":
It might not speak to you, but I think it's speaking to a lot of people. I've seen it all over the place the past couple days, and it's got over 3 million views and over 5500 comments as I write this. I had a great conversation with my husband last night over it.
More David Wong on MeFi previously:
5 Ways to Spot a BS Political Story in Under 10 Seconds
6 Things Rich People Need To Stop Saying
The Day The Gaming Industry Died: Impressions from E3 2010
posted by flex at 7:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
Point #4 about "Nice Guys":
"What, so you're saying that I can't get girls like that unless I have a nice job and make lots of money?"I liked this part in Point #1:
No, your brain jumps to that conclusion so you have an excuse to write off everyone who rejects you by thinking that they're just being shallow and selfish. I'm asking what do you offer? Are you smart? Funny? Interesting? Talented? Ambitious? Creative? OK, now what do you do to demonstrate those attributes to the world? Don't say that you're a nice guy -- that's the bare minimum. Pretty girls have guys being nice to them 36 times a day...
"Well, I'm not sexist or racist or greedy or shallow or abusive! Not like those other douchebags!"
I'm sorry, I know that this is hard to hear, but if all you can do is list a bunch of faults you don't have, then back the fuck away...
Does that break your heart? OK, so now what? Are you going to mope about it, or are you going to learn...? It's up to you, but don't complain about how girls fall for jerks; they fall for those jerks because those jerks have other things they can offer. "But I'm a great listener!" Are you? Because you're willing to sit quietly in exchange for the chance to be in the proximity of a pretty girl (and spend every second imagining how soft her skin must be)? Well guess what, there's another guy in her life who also knows how to do that, and he can play the guitar. Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible."
Remember, misery is comfortable. It's why so many people prefer it. Happiness takes effort.And he ends it with a call to action: "But the key is, I don't want you to focus on something great that you're going to make happen to you ("I'm going to find a girlfriend, I'm going to make lots of money ..."). I want you to purely focus on giving yourself a skill that would make you ever so slightly more interesting and valuable to other people."
Also, courage. It's incredibly comforting to know that as long as you don't create anything in your life, then nobody can attack the thing you created.
It's so much easier to just sit back and criticize other people's creations. This movie is stupid. That couple's kids are brats. That other couple's relationship is a mess. That rich guy is shallow. This restaurant sucks. This Internet writer is an asshole. I'd better leave a mean comment demanding that the website fire him. See, I created something.
Oh, wait, did I forget to mention that part? Yeah, whatever you try to build or create -- be it a poem, or a new skill, or a new relationship -- you will find yourself immediately surrounded by non-creators who trash it. Maybe not to your face, but they'll do it. Your drunk friends do not want you to get sober. Your fat friends do not want you to start a fitness regimen. Your jobless friends do not want to see you embark on a career.
Just remember, they're only expressing their own fear, since trashing other people's work is another excuse to do nothing. "Why should I create anything when the things other people create suck? I would totally have written a novel by now, but I'm going to wait for something good, I don't want to write the next Twilight!" As long as they never produce anything, it will forever be perfect and beyond reproach. Or if they do produce something, they'll make sure they do it with detached irony. They'll make it intentionally bad to make it clear to everyone else that this isn't their real effort. Their real effort would have been amazing. Not like the shit you made.
Read our article comments -- when they get nasty, it's always from the same angle: Cracked needs to fire this columnist. This asshole needs to stop writing. Don't make any more videos. It always boils down to "Stop creating. This is different from what I would have made, and the attention you're getting is making me feel bad about myself."
Don't be that person. If you are that person, don't be that person any more. This is what's making people hate you. This is what's making you hate yourself.
It might not speak to you, but I think it's speaking to a lot of people. I've seen it all over the place the past couple days, and it's got over 3 million views and over 5500 comments as I write this. I had a great conversation with my husband last night over it.
More David Wong on MeFi previously:
5 Ways to Spot a BS Political Story in Under 10 Seconds
6 Things Rich People Need To Stop Saying
The Day The Gaming Industry Died: Impressions from E3 2010
posted by flex at 7:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
Yeah I'm sorry the girl that guy had a crush on in 9th grade didn't like him back, but no.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hat tip to inspirations gingerest and Brandon Blatcher - End-of-year lists are fingerprints.
posted by carsonb at 7:58 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by carsonb at 7:58 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
The article was talking to a very specific set, who will find every excuse not to do stuff.
Then, I think it was already posted in the correct place: cracked.com.
posted by ignignokt at 8:07 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Then, I think it was already posted in the correct place: cracked.com.
posted by ignignokt at 8:07 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I feel like the people who like David Wong are already reading him and the people who aren't see his stuff as 1) not-their-thing and/or not-for-them 2) presented as a Cracked list which we've already reached a fatigue point with here. He really does not resonate with me at all. I'm happy if other people liked this article but the flagging we were seeing seemed to indicate that others did not. For me, I got to the beginning of it where he said "Feel free to stop reading this if your career is going great, you're thrilled with your life and you're happy with your relationships. Enjoy the rest of your day, friend, this article is not for you." because, well, it wasn't for me.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:08 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:08 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
>Also, by person he apparently means "heterosexual man" because this is a pretty one-sided list of reasons to improve yourself.
Aside from one isolated reference to "getting girls," what are you talking about?
Gay men aren't interested in winning a Cadillac Eldorado or steak knives?
posted by KokuRyu at 8:08 PM on December 19, 2012
Aside from one isolated reference to "getting girls," what are you talking about?
Gay men aren't interested in winning a Cadillac Eldorado or steak knives?
posted by KokuRyu at 8:08 PM on December 19, 2012
I thought the article was one good point - intention is nothing without action - spread thinly enough and cut with enough assholery to lose its effectiveness. David Wong's generally okay in my book, but this article was like day-old oatmeal.
Maybe it wasn't for me, because I was able to list five impressive things I've done. On the other hand, I'm easily impressed, and most of those things were like "made a great ice cream cake."
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:24 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Maybe it wasn't for me, because I was able to list five impressive things I've done. On the other hand, I'm easily impressed, and most of those things were like "made a great ice cream cake."
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:24 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
"I feel like the people who like David Wong are already reading him and the people who aren't see his stuff as 1) not-their-thing and/or not-for-them 2) presented as a Cracked list which we've already reached a fatigue point with here."
I'm not familiar with him at all and only heard of him by this MeTa. It's great that others do know of him or have simply decided they hate cracked.com, but it would nice if they could move and let others find and decide for themselves.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm not familiar with him at all and only heard of him by this MeTa. It's great that others do know of him or have simply decided they hate cracked.com, but it would nice if they could move and let others find and decide for themselves.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
An article presented as a list for no apparent reason is just a format, not a categorization of the kind of article it is. These deletions don't strike me as being terribly coherent, even with the flagging. It appears to come down to a dislike (by mods and some members) of Cracked.com, rather than some issue with the post, with whether it fits the interestingness standard, or with the way the thread would go.
I came across the article elsewhere without already knowing who David Wong is and thought it was interesting, and would have liked to read the discussion here.
posted by parudox at 8:48 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I came across the article elsewhere without already knowing who David Wong is and thought it was interesting, and would have liked to read the discussion here.
posted by parudox at 8:48 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Here I am waiting to see the "7 most frequently deleted Cracked.com lists" list
Oddly, it will show up on Buzzfeed.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oddly, it will show up on Buzzfeed.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
That scarf really is something, though.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:07 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:07 PM on December 19, 2012
^
Ayup
posted by unSane at 3:55 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
But it's not an end of year list.
Maybe we can do an anticipatory End of it ALL list in time for tomorrow?
posted by infini at 10:43 PM on December 19, 2012
Ayup
posted by unSane at 3:55 PM on December 19 [+] [!]
But it's not an end of year list.
Maybe we can do an anticipatory End of it ALL list in time for tomorrow?
posted by infini at 10:43 PM on December 19, 2012
I have liked other David Wong articles in the past, but that one was not good at best, highly troublesome at worst. But either way, oftentimes reminiscent of the fratbro "wisdom" I spent my college years gritting my teeth at. Good deletion, IMO.
posted by Phire at 11:20 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Phire at 11:20 PM on December 19, 2012
I think auto-deleting Cracked links is kind of an overreaction. I mean, at one point in time, people were constantly posting Cracked links, so I could see why the mods wanted to stop that. But that doesn't happen anymore, so I don't see why the occasional Cracked link is a bad thing. Wong is a good writer, and I'm more likely to read something if I knew he wrote it.
I mean, hell, Slate articles get posted here all the time and nobody complains. And that's a good thing, because I like Slate articles, but I'm not a fan of their community.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:38 AM on December 20, 2012
I mean, hell, Slate articles get posted here all the time and nobody complains. And that's a good thing, because I like Slate articles, but I'm not a fan of their community.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:38 AM on December 20, 2012
John Dies At The End and This Book Is Full Of Spiders (Seriously, Dude, Don't Touch It) are great fun and I'm looking forward to the Don Coscarelli film featuring Paul Giamatti. Because Phantasm is one of my favorite movies and I don't care what you think, unless you think you ought to buy me a '71 black Hemicuda and then I care deeply.
I like David Wong. I like that article. He's right. Consoling yourself with unrealized good intentions is the trap into which I've fallen and hearing someone chide me for that can only be good. It may be brolosophy and thus abhorrent to those out there who, you know, actually seem motivated to DO STUFF, but for those of us who have dysthymic laziness and Perpetual Procrastinator's Syndrome it's a tonic.
I've had FIVE YEARS to do nothing but write and I ain't done jack shit. It hurts. Wong's article picks at that scab. Good. I need to bleed. I need to stop trying and start doing.
I suspect I'm not alone.
But it was deleted because whatevs. I could rant about MeFi being where Reddit Goes To Die, because at least half of any given day's content is stuff I saw on Reddit yesterday. But the discussion here is better, and having invested a decade and thousands of mostly drunk comments I'm not backing off now.
The post would have led to an interesting discussion. But we're supposed to pretend its about the links, even though most are stale, instead of the discussion. Because reasons.
This is the online community that matters most to me. Hell, I literally bought the tshirt. It's soft. Fits well. I wear it often. I shouldn't complain.I rarely post links. Maybe I'm the problem I'm complaining about.
But I sometimes fear excessive moderation is stifling the site and I wish things were a bit more rough-and tumble. Maybe it's a scaling problem. What do I know. Not a lot.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:20 AM on December 20, 2012 [10 favorites]
I like David Wong. I like that article. He's right. Consoling yourself with unrealized good intentions is the trap into which I've fallen and hearing someone chide me for that can only be good. It may be brolosophy and thus abhorrent to those out there who, you know, actually seem motivated to DO STUFF, but for those of us who have dysthymic laziness and Perpetual Procrastinator's Syndrome it's a tonic.
I've had FIVE YEARS to do nothing but write and I ain't done jack shit. It hurts. Wong's article picks at that scab. Good. I need to bleed. I need to stop trying and start doing.
I suspect I'm not alone.
But it was deleted because whatevs. I could rant about MeFi being where Reddit Goes To Die, because at least half of any given day's content is stuff I saw on Reddit yesterday. But the discussion here is better, and having invested a decade and thousands of mostly drunk comments I'm not backing off now.
The post would have led to an interesting discussion. But we're supposed to pretend its about the links, even though most are stale, instead of the discussion. Because reasons.
This is the online community that matters most to me. Hell, I literally bought the tshirt. It's soft. Fits well. I wear it often. I shouldn't complain.I rarely post links. Maybe I'm the problem I'm complaining about.
But I sometimes fear excessive moderation is stifling the site and I wish things were a bit more rough-and tumble. Maybe it's a scaling problem. What do I know. Not a lot.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:20 AM on December 20, 2012 [10 favorites]
I have liked other David Wong articles in the past, but that one was not good at best, highly troublesome at worst.
And you don't think that could have lead to an interesting discussion?
posted by Sebmojo at 1:45 AM on December 20, 2012
And you don't think that could have lead to an interesting discussion?
posted by Sebmojo at 1:45 AM on December 20, 2012
Why?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:00 AM on December 20, 2012
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:00 AM on December 20, 2012
Because it's one ephemeral post to one ephemeral list of advice that will get rewritten next month.
Also, and this is specific to this link, the tang of "Silenced all my life!!!" in the repeated protests over the deletion of this bit of confrontation porn which says, in essence, "get over yourself and get back to work," is ironic enough to make those protests kind of ridiculous.
posted by OmieWise at 3:25 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Also, and this is specific to this link, the tang of "Silenced all my life!!!" in the repeated protests over the deletion of this bit of confrontation porn which says, in essence, "get over yourself and get back to work," is ironic enough to make those protests kind of ridiculous.
posted by OmieWise at 3:25 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
I want you to purely focus on giving yourself a skill that would make you ever so slightly more interesting and valuable to other people.
My itemizing skills are mad sharp.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:29 AM on December 20, 2012
My itemizing skills are mad sharp.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:29 AM on December 20, 2012
Also, and this is specific to this link, the tang of "Silenced all my life!!!" in the repeated protests over the deletion of this bit of confrontation porn which says, in essence, "get over yourself and get back to work," is ironic enough to make those protests kind of ridiculous.
This is literally the first time I've seen a deleted post on the blue and not felt the reasons were self-explanatory. That's a pretty good record, and a good reason to enquire further.
Also: that's kind of cheap, don't you think?
posted by Sebmojo at 3:47 AM on December 20, 2012
This is literally the first time I've seen a deleted post on the blue and not felt the reasons were self-explanatory. That's a pretty good record, and a good reason to enquire further.
Also: that's kind of cheap, don't you think?
posted by Sebmojo at 3:47 AM on December 20, 2012
The discussion so far doesn't seem very interesting. Anyhow Wong's piece is basically a sales pitch. For yourself. For himself. Go out and do something! But do what? Do like Wong? Not sure we need more Wongs.
posted by deo rei at 4:05 AM on December 20, 2012
posted by deo rei at 4:05 AM on December 20, 2012
the tang of "Silenced all my life!!!" in the repeated protests over the deletion of this bit of confrontation porn which says, in essence, "get over yourself and get back to work," is ironic enough to make those protests kind of ridiculous.
Let it go.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:28 AM on December 20, 2012
Let it go.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:28 AM on December 20, 2012
Not sure we need more Wongs.
tries hard to prevent self...oops.
Do more wongs make it write?
posted by infini at 4:28 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
tries hard to prevent self...oops.
Do more wongs make it write?
posted by infini at 4:28 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Lenny Kravitz looks absolutely delicious in that scarf.
posted by headnsouth at 4:33 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by headnsouth at 4:33 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is literally the first time I've seen a deleted post on the blue and not felt the reasons were self-explanatory. That's a pretty good record, and a good reason to enquire further.
I'm not sure on which side of this I fall. I thought the post was mostly harmless.
But, regarding what you said above: As the author of the post that was deleted don't you think that its possible that that may be giving you a less than objective view on this?
posted by vacapinta at 4:48 AM on December 20, 2012
I'm not sure on which side of this I fall. I thought the post was mostly harmless.
But, regarding what you said above: As the author of the post that was deleted don't you think that its possible that that may be giving you a less than objective view on this?
posted by vacapinta at 4:48 AM on December 20, 2012
This is literally the first time I've seen a deleted post on the blue and not felt the reasons were self-explanatory. That's a pretty good record, and a good reason to enquire further.
Also: that's kind of cheap, don't you think?
Not really. Look, you're either too close to this, or you're misrepresenting this thread. I think it's fine to post a thread inquiring into the reasons for deletion, but this post was not that. It started as a protest to the deletion, not an inquiry: "Should I just wait until '25 most hilarious autocorrects' has slid down the page a little?," and you commented five times in the thread itself protesting the deletion as well.
That's not a huge deal, but I don't think you can plausibly say that all you wanted was to figure our why this was deleted. And I do think that given the content of that link, the repeated protests are ironic.
posted by OmieWise at 4:51 AM on December 20, 2012
Also: that's kind of cheap, don't you think?
Not really. Look, you're either too close to this, or you're misrepresenting this thread. I think it's fine to post a thread inquiring into the reasons for deletion, but this post was not that. It started as a protest to the deletion, not an inquiry: "Should I just wait until '25 most hilarious autocorrects' has slid down the page a little?," and you commented five times in the thread itself protesting the deletion as well.
That's not a huge deal, but I don't think you can plausibly say that all you wanted was to figure our why this was deleted. And I do think that given the content of that link, the repeated protests are ironic.
posted by OmieWise at 4:51 AM on December 20, 2012
"... confrontation porn ..."
Ah, thanks. Brilliant phrase / shorthand. Can now analogise MetaFilter better.
The Blue: Here's a link to the best porn on the web.
AskMeFi: I am upset because my partner watches porn.
Projects: I am making some porn.
Music: Listen to the sleazy porn soundtrack I composed.
Jobs: Not camera shy when wearing no clothes? Email me...
Podcast: Listen to the mods discussing posts about the best porn on the web.
IRL: Let's meet up and make a porno.
MetaTalk: Confrontation porn.
(Thinks) Hmmm. Bit of a tacky list, really. How do I submit it to cracked dot com?
posted by Wordshore at 5:20 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah, thanks. Brilliant phrase / shorthand. Can now analogise MetaFilter better.
The Blue: Here's a link to the best porn on the web.
AskMeFi: I am upset because my partner watches porn.
Projects: I am making some porn.
Music: Listen to the sleazy porn soundtrack I composed.
Jobs: Not camera shy when wearing no clothes? Email me...
Podcast: Listen to the mods discussing posts about the best porn on the web.
IRL: Let's meet up and make a porno.
MetaTalk: Confrontation porn.
(Thinks) Hmmm. Bit of a tacky list, really. How do I submit it to cracked dot com?
posted by Wordshore at 5:20 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just as it needs to be a truly above-par article to link to McSweeney's, Letters of Note or Roger Ebert to make the front page these day, if it comes from Cracked, it better be well and truly above the norm. This one... kind of wasn't, unless you're into the whole motivational speaker thing.
Plus, it would have provoked a flamewar and a MeTa callout or two - it's contentious self-help psuedopsychology and anti-philosophy. It's the curmudgeonly growling of a man about to flip over to see what's on Fox news and not come back... someone who doesn't understand his own success but is desperate to see it as the result of virtue and right-thinking.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:21 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Plus, it would have provoked a flamewar and a MeTa callout or two - it's contentious self-help psuedopsychology and anti-philosophy. It's the curmudgeonly growling of a man about to flip over to see what's on Fox news and not come back... someone who doesn't understand his own success but is desperate to see it as the result of virtue and right-thinking.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:21 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Based on Wikipedia and Sparknotes, if he is attempting to use Glengarry Glen Ross to support his point, then he has done so out of context, and perverted the interpretation of the film.
posted by polymodus at 5:57 AM on December 20, 2012
posted by polymodus at 5:57 AM on December 20, 2012
jessamyn: I feel like the people who like David Wong are already reading him and the people who aren't see his stuff as 1) not-their-thing and/or not-for-them 2) presented as a Cracked list which we've already reached a fatigue point with here.
I really disagree with this statement. I come to MetaFilter for the Best of the Web, not the Best of the Web Other Than People You Are Already Probably Reading and Sites That We Are Not Tired Of. If you want to say that this article is not the Best of the Web that's fine (and I'd probably agree with you), but I strongly object to deleting posts based on the author or the site they are coming from. Cracked is the perfect example of a site that I do not want to read regularly, but I love that I don't have to, because the best stuff from their site pops up here at MeFi.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:27 AM on December 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
I really disagree with this statement. I come to MetaFilter for the Best of the Web, not the Best of the Web Other Than People You Are Already Probably Reading and Sites That We Are Not Tired Of. If you want to say that this article is not the Best of the Web that's fine (and I'd probably agree with you), but I strongly object to deleting posts based on the author or the site they are coming from. Cracked is the perfect example of a site that I do not want to read regularly, but I love that I don't have to, because the best stuff from their site pops up here at MeFi.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:27 AM on December 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
Not sure we need more Wongs.
If this is right, I don't want to be Wong.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:37 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
If this is right, I don't want to be Wong.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:37 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is literally the first time I've seen a deleted post on the blue and not felt the reasons were self-explanatory. That's a pretty good record, and a good reason to enquire further.
I had much the same reaction, until I realized that you can append "...and a lot of people flagged it." to any deletion reason, which makes all of them eminently more reasonable. Though I disagree with this particular deletion, I bow to the will of the collective, and I do not feel that MetaFilter is significantly lessened by the loss of a link to this article.
posted by Etrigan at 7:02 AM on December 20, 2012
I had much the same reaction, until I realized that you can append "...and a lot of people flagged it." to any deletion reason, which makes all of them eminently more reasonable. Though I disagree with this particular deletion, I bow to the will of the collective, and I do not feel that MetaFilter is significantly lessened by the loss of a link to this article.
posted by Etrigan at 7:02 AM on December 20, 2012
Cracked is the perfect example of a site that I do not want to read regularly, but I love that I don't have to, because the best stuff from their site pops up here at MeFi.
Sure, just like The Onion or McSweeney's. However with sites that are frequently posted here, there is often a user-side assessment of whether a post hits the bar for "Should this be posted to MeFi even though it's from a site that many people have indicated that they are very tired of?" and we've been having this discussion about Cracked for years now and people clearly fall on both sides of this particular one even though we're often significantly more deletion-favoring with Yet Another McSweeney's List or Yet Another Oatmeal Comic or Yet Another AMA from Reddit, even though there is the occasional post that people seem to really like.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:04 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sure, just like The Onion or McSweeney's. However with sites that are frequently posted here, there is often a user-side assessment of whether a post hits the bar for "Should this be posted to MeFi even though it's from a site that many people have indicated that they are very tired of?" and we've been having this discussion about Cracked for years now and people clearly fall on both sides of this particular one even though we're often significantly more deletion-favoring with Yet Another McSweeney's List or Yet Another Oatmeal Comic or Yet Another AMA from Reddit, even though there is the occasional post that people seem to really like.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:04 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
jessamyn: there is often a user-side assessment of whether a post hits the bar for "Should this be posted to MeFi even though it's from a site that many people have indicated that they are very tired of?"
Fair enough. Perhaps we could solve the problem by just ignoring the users that disagree with me? I'll MeMail you the list if you don't have it already.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:09 AM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Fair enough. Perhaps we could solve the problem by just ignoring the users that disagree with me? I'll MeMail you the list if you don't have it already.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:09 AM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
I read it and had a few thoughts: That basing a world view on the Alec Baldwin character in Glengarry Glen Ross was bizarre; that a lot of the stuff he was saying sort of contradicted the things he said in the one he did about [Some number of] Things That Rich People Should Stop Saying (like, "if I did it, you can, too!" etc.); that I'm really, really tired of the [Some number of] Things article organization convention, as though no one can read anything that isn't bullet-pointed any more, and finally, that the whole thing seemed maybe a way to strike back a bit at people who trash his stuff in comments.
I very much disliked the whole "improve yourself so you can get the girls you want" approach, but basically, I figured, okay this is for 20-year-old guys, not for me, it says so right on the label! I don't personally feel like this is a great post for Metafilter, because of all of the above, plus the long-standing avoid-linkbait thing -- unless it's really something fantastic, and this didn't seem to hit that bar.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:12 AM on December 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
I very much disliked the whole "improve yourself so you can get the girls you want" approach, but basically, I figured, okay this is for 20-year-old guys, not for me, it says so right on the label! I don't personally feel like this is a great post for Metafilter, because of all of the above, plus the long-standing avoid-linkbait thing -- unless it's really something fantastic, and this didn't seem to hit that bar.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:12 AM on December 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
1. Eschew Numbered Lists.
2. Oops
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:28 AM on December 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
2. Oops
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:28 AM on December 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Sebmojo: And you don't think that could have lead to an interesting discussion?"
No? If the post had stayed up, I would've just skipped it. Why go into a thread just to say "I think this article is terrible and shallow"? I don't like engaging like that. BitterOldPunk's comment here made the best case of any comment for why that article might have led to an interesting discussion, and I'm glad this callout was here so I could read his comment. But even so, is this a deletion worth being super upset over? Eh.
posted by Phire at 8:19 AM on December 20, 2012
No? If the post had stayed up, I would've just skipped it. Why go into a thread just to say "I think this article is terrible and shallow"? I don't like engaging like that. BitterOldPunk's comment here made the best case of any comment for why that article might have led to an interesting discussion, and I'm glad this callout was here so I could read his comment. But even so, is this a deletion worth being super upset over? Eh.
posted by Phire at 8:19 AM on December 20, 2012
I posted the original deleted post and honestly I was pretty ambivalent about it even then. I mostly like the bit about "Nice Guys" even though it glossed over some of the bigger grossness of that phenomenon.
posted by kmz at 8:50 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible."Anyway... probably the biggest thing I learned was from later following up on a couple of links and realizing that David Wong isn't his real name and in fact from what I can tell he's a white dude. The use of an Asian pseudonym actually sorta skeeves me out a tiny bit? Not Cloud Atlas or The Last Airbender bad, but just seems sorta weird. *shrug*
posted by kmz at 8:50 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Huh, that's sort of interesting in that it's an open secret basically that he's Jason Pargin.
Back in the day when my mom was a textbook writer for [big textbook company] they required (suggested?) that the writers use the occasional ethnic pseudonym to give the impression that they have a significantly more diverse stable of writers than they actually did. I thought the whole situation was sketch city.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:54 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Back in the day when my mom was a textbook writer for [big textbook company] they required (suggested?) that the writers use the occasional ethnic pseudonym to give the impression that they have a significantly more diverse stable of writers than they actually did. I thought the whole situation was sketch city.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:54 AM on December 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Hopefully I'm not putting him on the spot, but while that David Wong isn't bad, he ain't a patch on MeFi's Own middleclasstool when it comes to ladling out steaming hot truth gumbo, brimming with heart and wit and several secret spices, one of which may or may not be cumin.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:58 AM on December 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:58 AM on December 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
Oh man, yeah, another vote for middleclasstool's fucking excellent blog. He updates infrequently, but when he does it's always a kick to my engine.
posted by Phire at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I had never seen middleclasstool's blog, and now I have, and I am enriched. Cheers, Alvy Ampersand, and a merry sort of thing too.
posted by Sparx at 12:33 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Sparx at 12:33 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
So I just checked my referrer logs and saw MeTa and instinctively thought Oh, Christ, what argument am I getting pulled into and then came here and, wow. Thanks. You guys made my day.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:39 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by middleclasstool at 1:39 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
No, we didn't.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:14 PM on December 20, 2012
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:14 PM on December 20, 2012
It's on now.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:10 PM on December 20, 2012
posted by middleclasstool at 5:10 PM on December 20, 2012
No it isn't.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:12 PM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:12 PM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
David Wong isn't his real name
You're saying that he isn't as Wong as he seems to be? Man, that ain't Wright.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:37 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're saying that he isn't as Wong as he seems to be? Man, that ain't Wright.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:37 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Huh, that's sort of interesting in that it's an open secret basically that he's Jason Pargin.
It's so open that David Wong is explicitly outed as Jason Pargin on the back cover of John Dies at the End, oddly enough. I can't think of another pseudonym that's revealed quite so openly (for an author who isn't famous under another name, like Richard Bachman/Stephen King).
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 PM on December 20, 2012
It's so open that David Wong is explicitly outed as Jason Pargin on the back cover of John Dies at the End, oddly enough. I can't think of another pseudonym that's revealed quite so openly (for an author who isn't famous under another name, like Richard Bachman/Stephen King).
posted by Etrigan at 8:54 PM on December 20, 2012
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posted by unSane at 6:06 PM on December 19, 2012