Deleting Damascus May 4, 2013 9:24 PM   Subscribe

I would like to discuss whether or not this post warranted deletion.

I would like to begin by saying that while I am a new user, I've been reading for a long time, and am well aware that MeFi is generally not the place for breaking news stories.

That being said, I have two major points of contention regarding why this post was deleted:

1. This post is not exactly breaking news. I believe that the value of this post is in the two linked videos of the bombing, which offer an entirely unique perspective on the Syria/Israel/Iran situation. The sheer authenticity of these videos -- by this I mean the fact that these videos seem to be shot by civilians, not journalists -- is something that, in itself, I think a lot of people here would have truly appreciated.

Secondly, as I explicitly stated in the post (via the NYT), what we are witnessing here is an ongoing trend: Israel has attacked Syria before, and we know exactly why. It is not as if this post was "breaking news" in the sense that it was opening a slew of unanswerable questions.

2. Originally, I was planning on making a SLYT post, containing only a link to the first linked video. I was questioning whether this was MeFi appropriate, so I sent an email to the Mods asking their opinion. This is the response that I received:

"It's a striking video, but without context really isn't going to make a good post. If you can figure out the backstory and find some links to give it that context, then it'd work, but otherwise I'd let it go."

Please understand, I sincerely respect the Mods here, and mean no disrespect by pointing this out. However, I did exactly what was suggested: I added two (yes, "breaking") articles for context, and the second video which I found from the WP article (which, in my opinion, gives the post that much more "strength").

Again, I do not mean to come off as rude: but I find the fact that the post was still deleted to be incredibly disingenuous.

All of this being said, I am submitting a Meta Talk question as I'd like to know what I could have done differently: Is there any way I could have better contextualized the videos? Did my wording of the post not place enough emphasis on the videos -- did they not come across as the main "focal point" of the post?

Thank you all.
posted by Whitall Tatum to Etiquette/Policy at 9:24 PM (119 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

The problem was the actual context. I did not realize, when seeing the bare video, that it was Israel bombing Syria, or I would have pointed out the current, active Syria thread and suggested you post it there instead. Sorry for the miscommunication.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:29 PM on May 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


All of this being said, I am submitting a Meta Talk question as I'd like to know what I could have done differently

I assume you're asking the community and not the mods? You're sort of new here so I'm not sure how familiar you are with the problem we have here where posts about Israel, and especially posts about breaking news concerning Israel tend to go terribly here and so we have an informal sort of guideline that if your post is about news in the Middle East generally that people make an effort to take care with it so that the post comes across as more than "People being hostile in the Middle East. Discuss" and people just pick up the same old arguments and don't pay attention to the links, the topic, or anything else.

MetaFilter is, at a basic level, not a news blog and especially not a breaking news blog. As you said this opens a slew of unanswerable questions and it might be the sort of thing that would make a better post once we've had some more analysis and know more about what's going on or, as restless_nomad says in the existing Syria thread.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:39 PM on May 4, 2013 [3 favorites]


OP: It is not as if this post was "breaking news" in the sense that it was opening a slew of unanswerable questions.

jessamyn: As you said this opens a slew of unanswerable questions

I think the OP meant that the post was not opening a slew of unanswerable questions.
posted by bardophile at 9:47 PM on May 4, 2013


Ah, apologies.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:48 PM on May 4, 2013


I am submitting a Meta Talk question as I'd like to know what I could have done differently:

Ima let you finish, but the 'done differently' part of this whole deal doesn't have anything to do with the two 'improvements' you're about to list. Here's two things you can incorporate as additional little hurdles to jump before posting links to the front page of MetaFilter:

1. Don't make posts about conflict in the Middle East unless it's, like, un-fucking-believably awesome good news or the Rapture. Just cross it off the list.

2. Don't make posts about breaking news.

Is there any way I could have better contextualized the videos?

Probably, but I doubt you could have done enough to warrant disregarding #1 up there.

Did my wording of the post—

Actually, Ima not let you finish.
posted by carsonb at 9:49 PM on May 4, 2013 [5 favorites]


Is there any way I could have better contextualized the videos?

I don't think so. Unless you view this as some kind of interesting change in existing positions and trends, in which case you would need something that explains why this is a significant change. As it is, Israel attacking a shipment of Irani missiles headed for Syria may be new in the details, but is depressingly familiar in terms of the political positions it represents.

It is not as if this post was "breaking news" in the sense that it was opening a slew of unanswerable questions.


But it does, in fact, open a slew of unanswerable questions. I don't want to get into discussing the specifics of the situation here, but the whole point of this as news is basically, "Does this mean something new? If so, what?" And the "what does it mean?" part of the question can't be answered at all yet, except in a highly speculative way, which then leads to the kinds of arguments that jessamyn referenced in her comment.
posted by bardophile at 10:02 PM on May 4, 2013


carsonb wrote...
1. Don't make posts about conflict in the Middle East unless it's, like, un-fucking-believably awesome good news or the Rapture. Just cross it off the list.

This.

For your own stress levels if nothing else. The denizens of these parts are too volatile a mix on this particular topic for things not to get heated and testy, and this isn't a heated and testy discussion sort of place.

Stick to cool things you found on the web.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:10 PM on May 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ah, okay. I guess my mindset after watching the videos was "Holy shit. So this is what it is actually like to live in Damascus right now." Honestly, I was (am) seriously overcome by the rawness conveyed in those few seconds. I meant for the post to be interpreted more as "do you believe people actually experience this? Like, in real life? than "Israel just bombed Syria. Again."

What I am trying to say is that I found the value in those videos to be somewhat context independent, which is why I didn't think the post was breaking news. I realize now that my interpretation of this is not everyone's -- so I understand how it's very easy to see this as "great, more bad news from the middle east." Again, this wasn't exactly my "original" mindset going into this.

Don't make posts about conflict in the Middle East unless it's, like, un-fucking-believably awesome good news or the Rapture. Just cross it off the list.

Now I feel like I owe everyone an apology -- I totally did not realize this.
posted by Whitall Tatum at 10:26 PM on May 4, 2013 [7 favorites]


I totally did not realize this
Ehn. It's not really a thing, just you should remember that any post that involves Israel is basically going to have a lot of extraneous axe-grinding unless framed very carefully.

Some genius made a stunningly brilliant post about the conflict in Syria (with emphasis on potential US involvement) and this would be a great addition to it! Especially if you included info on previous airstrikes into Syria.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:31 PM on May 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah it's more like most posts related to the Middle East will be viewed as "bad news" by someone, and when it comes to Israel and Palestine on Metafilter I'm afraid everything depends on context. But there's absolutely no need to apologize, we're cool.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 11:16 PM on May 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thanks for being so even-tempered about this, Whitall. After the past few MeTa blow-ups, your courtesy and reasonableness is like a breath of fresh air.
posted by mokin at 11:17 PM on May 4, 2013 [35 favorites]


"Holy shit. So this is what it is actually like to live in Damascus right now." Honestly, I was (am) seriously overcome by the rawness conveyed in those few seconds. I meant for the post to be interpreted more as "do you believe people actually experience this? Like, in real life?"

They are powerful videos from that standpoint. If I wanted to post them I would collect a bunch of videos from different conflicts around the world and approach it from a "Ubiquitous video has started to give us a picture of what it's like to live in a bombing zone".

Of course the other problem is that you may well be posting snuff videos.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:28 PM on May 4, 2013 [3 favorites]


Of course the other problem is that you may well be posting snuff videos.

One way around that might be to broaden the focus and have the post be "Ubiquitous video has started to give us a picture of what it's like to live in interesting or unusual conditions," and then link to videos that show what it's like to live in a warzone, a sandstorm, on an Alaskan fishing boat, etc.
posted by mokin at 12:02 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Normally I agree with the deletions since Cortex is pretty.

But I saw one of the links to the videos on Reddit and was like, "Check mefi for context". There was a post but it was nuked.

This is one of those things where I think Mefi does well. It is a good filter for news where I am trying to put things together and I can compile info so my mom doesn't blame Islam.
posted by johnpowell at 12:13 AM on May 5, 2013


1. This post is not exactly breaking news. I believe that the value of this post is in the two linked videos of the bombing, which offer an entirely unique perspective on the Syria/Israel/Iran situation. The sheer authenticity of these videos -- by this I mean the fact that these videos seem to be shot by civilians, not journalists -- is something that, in itself, I think a lot of people here would have truly appreciated.

Citizen videos out of warzones have actually been pretty common these last few years, it's not particularly notable/unique that someone captured this incident.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:26 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't understand why this even needs to be categorized under "breaking news". Can't it just be a single-link FPP, linking to an amazing video of an explosion? We have plenty of single link video posts.

I had already seen this particular video, but I was grateful to the person who posted the video where I saw it, and I would have been similarly grateful to have seen the video via MetaFilter.

The "breaking news" aspect doesn't really interest me - I just like to see such interesting short videos. Is that so bad? Isn't that what MetaFilter is for: linking to interesting things on the internet?
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 12:43 AM on May 5, 2013


The Meef Runner recommends a cut and run approach to these threads due to past experience.
posted by lordaych at 12:48 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm in favor of a new, properly contexted post on Israel bombing Damascus. This is seriously a huge fucking deal. But then, I'm also fine for waiting a few days to see if this is in fact the next step to OH FUCK.
posted by angrycat at 4:32 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


The first best thing you learn as a n00b to posting FPPs is that one must detach oneself from the outcome of one's work. Just like it says in the Bhagavad Gita...whoa...mefi is hindu? A brand new day is reincarnation in the next avatar.

/i'll just let myself out of this thread now
posted by infini at 4:34 AM on May 5, 2013 [5 favorites]


Seems like posts get summarily executed now because someone thinks it MIGHT go wrong. The level of moderation is now becoming stifling.
posted by DecemberBoy at 4:56 AM on May 5, 2013 [4 favorites]


The level of moderation is now becoming stifling.

well, there's a new topic to talk about!
posted by HuronBob at 5:17 AM on May 5, 2013 [21 favorites]


carsonb: Don't make posts about conflict in the Middle East unless it's, like, un-fucking-believably awesome good news or the Rapture. Just cross it off the list.

Whitetail Tatum: Now I feel like I owe everyone an apology -- I totally did not realize this.

You shouldn't feel bad at all. There is this unofficial, unwritten list of "things MeFi doesn't do well" and I/P posts top that list. From my 7 years here, I have garnered that those topics include, but are not limited to: Isreali/Palestine conflict, rape, police brutality, and some LGBT issues. I'm sure there are more, but I haven't had my second cup o' joe yet today.

This is not to say that they are forbidden topics, only that FPPs (and AskMes) about these topics need extra special care in their crafting, context and wording and they require more attention from the mods, so they really have to be great to even have a chance to fly. And that is just on the part of the FPP writer - the community has to respond appropriately as well by refraining from shitty comments in the post, and even if the FPP isn't deleted, if things get fighty or ugly, then the thread goes to the deleted posts graveyard.

I do wish these topics were listed somewhere for newer members to see, but I guess you don't want to greet new members with "Hey! Welcome to MeFi - but don't talk about THIS!" I do think we have some awesome wordsmiths here who could come up with something for newer members that doesn't come off as a negative.

Again, don't feel bad, you are not the first and you will not be the last.
Welcome!
posted by NoraCharles at 5:34 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Don't make posts about conflict in the Middle East unless it's, like, un-fucking-believably awesome good news or the Rapture. Just cross it off the list."

I suspect that if anything recognizably describable as "the Rapture" ever actually happened we could just summarily add it to the list of things metafilter would not do well.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:46 AM on May 5, 2013 [9 favorites]


MeFi does LGB issues ok, but is still working on Trans* stuff.

Other things that don't go well (seriously): bicycles v. cars, obesity, circumcision, cat declawing. That looks like a list of random words, but seriously, those threads get fighty really fast.
posted by sonika at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2013 [5 favorites]


Ah, okay. I guess my mindset after watching the videos was "Holy shit. So this is what it is actually like to live in Damascus right now."

My favorite posts about the Middle East region have usually been about aspects of a nation, town or culture that has very little to do with the war conflicts. We hear so much about the killing and bombings that it's easy forget that there are beautiful places, things and people in the region.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:03 AM on May 5, 2013 [7 favorites]


Don't take the deletion personally. As others have said, it's a touchy subject which can raise people's blood pressure. Feel free to try again, generally "this is cool" is a better indicator than "you have to see this" as an indicator that a post is good for MeFi. When in doubt, run it by the mods. Also, welcome!
posted by arcticseal at 6:25 AM on May 5, 2013


Now I feel like I owe everyone an apology -- I totally did not realize this.

Absolutely not a problem. One of the flip sides of a site that has this weird arbitary-feeling list of stuff that are hot buttons is that the mods and a lot of the users tend to be really gracious about people who aren't as up on things. It's tough because there can be sort of an insider/outsider feel to all of it but since there's actually no lasting repercussions to having a post deleted (unless it starts happening all the time) and usually an ability to try again in a few days (or not) the stakes are low at a personal level. If you're interested in more of the nitpicky details there is a huge member-maintained wiki with an Orientation page that has some interesting stuff on it, but it's really okay to just hop right in. As NoraCharles says, Welcome!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:35 AM on May 5, 2013 [4 favorites]


I feel that this was not a bad post in and of itself, but that it didn't warrant a brand new post when the current Syria post is still hopping.

Which r_n said, but I felt it was getting buried in the "AHH I/P ON METAFILTER RAGEGRAR" sentiment.
posted by Etrigan at 8:56 AM on May 5, 2013


I'm still waiting for my apology.
posted by item at 9:31 AM on May 5, 2013


I'm still waiting for some pie.
posted by P.o.B. at 9:36 AM on May 5, 2013


I'm still waiting for my apology.

I'm sorry I ate your plums, but they were delish.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:37 AM on May 5, 2013 [10 favorites]


I'm still waiting for a train.
posted by Wordshore at 9:38 AM on May 5, 2013


Here's an apology:

In the cold light of morning my comment above looks pretty harsh, and I'm ashamed to have emulated Kanye in any respect. My regret is compounded by how well Whitehall Tatum has handled the response here. Sorry I went off on you, WT!

Cheers, and here's to your next post.
posted by carsonb at 9:43 AM on May 5, 2013


I’m just waiting on a friend.
posted by bongo_x at 9:43 AM on May 5, 2013


...by how well Whitehall Tatum has handled the response here.

Indeed. 'Angry April' appears to have, hopefully, been superseded by 'Magnanimous May'. Hoping to take a lead from this and become less of a reactionary asshat on here than I have been previously, myself.
posted by Wordshore at 9:58 AM on May 5, 2013


I'm waiting on a hero, myself.
posted by Phire at 9:58 AM on May 5, 2013


Why wait? I learnt to be my own hero...


*gag*
posted by infini at 10:03 AM on May 5, 2013


'Magnanimous May'.

Selleck's got our back.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:07 AM on May 5, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm waiting for candy. No, really, I'm still playing that dumb game.
posted by angrycat at 10:12 AM on May 5, 2013


Dear AskMe. This morning my cat (clawed but fat) wandered out into the busy road in front of my house. A car driver and a cyclist (recumbant) collided trying to avoid her. Of the two who is the most immoral and Godless? TIA.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:21 AM on May 5, 2013 [4 favorites]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates had already posted those videos in the open Syria thread, which also happens to be an excellent post.
posted by homunculus at 10:28 AM on May 5, 2013


I just called
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:35 AM on May 5, 2013


Just for the record, I found it to be a fine post. It's essentially the same level of breaking news as the Boston post and as about the same level of detailed links. The main difference is metafilter doesn't have a record of doing a shitty job with Boston links.

This said, I know how that thread would have gone and you would have been unhappy with that as well.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:35 AM on May 5, 2013


I'm waiting for my man.
posted by daisyk at 10:57 AM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Could somebody explain the breaking news rule to me? The reason I ask is that some posts are clearly breaking news, through my eyes anyway. Recent examples include the Boston Marathon bombing and the Waco TX explosion. But other posts are deleted because they are breaking news. It seems like if a breaking news story is big enough in some way then the breaking news rule is relaxed?
posted by Seymour Zamboni at 11:22 AM on May 5, 2013


cortex: "I'm sorry I ate your plums, but they were delish."

I can feel it...all the way down in my plums.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:25 AM on May 5, 2013


It seems like if a breaking news story is big enough in some way then the breaking news rule is relaxed?

Basically, my sense is this is right, with caveats -- obviously what counts as 'big enough' is a moving target, and it is also influenced by whether the news is on a subject/event where discussion is likely to go horribly. So, for example breaking news about a natural disaster in progress in a place where Mefites live is more likely to stay than breaking news about a headline-grabbingly awful, but nevertheless isolated, criminal act.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:36 AM on May 5, 2013 [3 favorites]


I was holding out for a hero, but would settle for a sandwich.
posted by arcticseal at 11:42 AM on May 5, 2013 [2 favorites]


OK. That makes sense. Thanks LobsterMitten.
posted by Seymour Zamboni at 11:50 AM on May 5, 2013


I kind of wish, at this point I/P threds and other contentious topics would be left up and just moddetrated with an iron fist. No fighting or else!!!
Granted I wouldn't be the person enforcing it and recvieving the blowback from smacking people on the back of the head, so I understand why this will never happen.
posted by edgeways at 12:30 PM on May 5, 2013


I'm still waiting for Godot.

One of these days I'll figure out how to explain how awful this is without having to explain how awful it is ... um ... maybe if I make sure to use more than one link, and pretend I haven't heard it before. Anyhow, there's a difference between this shit still sucks and stand by for the drones, no?

I'm still parsing. Interlocking circles aren't working out to well for me. Right now I get hurricanes, if they're still a-blowing, but not bombs, if they're still a-falling. The times, they are a-changing?

You could have done better, but I don't mind.
posted by mule98J at 12:53 PM on May 5, 2013


Dang Whitall you have a nice round user number.
posted by dismas at 12:57 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ima let you finish


What is up with this meme and could we stop using it? To begin with, it's condescending. And I'm fairly certain it is also a mockery of African American vernacular English.

Since MeFi has become of late a catalog of linguistic political correctness rules and regulations, I'm calling this ever more common usage out as racist orthography.
posted by spitbull at 2:06 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Anything to do with Israel/Palestine is a lightning rod for shitstorms around here. People are just so completely entrenched on one side or the other they are unable to let reason rule over raw emotion.

The most palatable posts on the matter, tend to be those so completely balanced and full of apology for even bring it up at all, that they lack a clear opinion. As a matter of discourse, that sucks, yet in the same respect, and with all due respect to the minds in this community, this is a problem that is not going to get anywhere near solved by Metafilter.

There are things we do incredibly well, from the “Hey what was that thing I saw/read/tripped over?” AskMe that gets answered in two minutes, to the “My neighbor needs help right now what can I do?” that actually gets the neighbor out of the shit they’re in due to our, and I want to puke when I use this word, “crowdsourcing.”

As someone who has been around for a while, I try to avoid saying much on it, because I realize there are things we can do better, and even the best post is still going to be a PITA for the mods.

As far as fixing I/P? I say you take the top guys from each side, no, actually the guys who are going to be the next top guys after the old ones keel over, and rendition their asses. Cuff, em, hood em, stick em on a C-130.

48 hours later they are sitting in a Georgia church basement with Jimmy Carter and nobody leaves til the reach an agreement.

I got a fin that says they sign something, and will be glad they finally did.
posted by timsteil at 2:07 PM on May 5, 2013


I'm calling this ever more common usage out as racist orthography.

Just making sure you know where it came from?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:08 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, turns out it comes from Kanye West. My point stands. Yo, dog?
posted by spitbull at 2:09 PM on May 5, 2013


And it's damn sure condescending in its intent. You don't have the ability not to let me finish.
posted by spitbull at 2:10 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


When white people use hip hop slang to be insulting it's racist. The fact that a black man famously said it does not obviate the point. To. The. Contrary.
posted by spitbull at 2:12 PM on May 5, 2013 [2 favorites]


Widespread racism.
posted by laconic skeuomorph at 2:17 PM on May 5, 2013


Oh, um, yeah. Good point, jessamyn.
posted by laconic skeuomorph at 2:18 PM on May 5, 2013


i nearly always see it in a purely joking, not insulting, way. like, someone posts a cover of a song and then someone says "imma let you finish but radiohead did the best version of this song of all time!" no one is being condescended to there. the usage in this thread is a little strained from the original meme and could have probably done without it.

also, i get the argument that making fun of one person of a minority group can be seen in a larger structure of oppression, but drunk kanye jumping on stage and acting like a jackass is pretty easy to mock (and i'm a fan of his). do some people mock kanye to reduce all black people to a stereotype? undoubtedly. is all mockery of kanye race based? absolutely not.
posted by nadawi at 2:20 PM on May 5, 2013


I'm calling this ever more common usage out as racist orthography.

I find that meme obnoxious and tired, but not at all racist.

I can find Kanye worthy of mockery without believing he represents all black people. He's a jackass. You have the US President saying that if you don't want to take my word for it.

Calling something racist does not make it so.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:24 PM on May 5, 2013 [2 favorites]


"Since MeFi has become of late a catalog of linguistic political correctness rules and regulations, I'm calling this ever more common usage out as racist orthography."

Yeah, that reads as entirely sincere and worth heeding.
posted by klangklangston at 2:43 PM on May 5, 2013 [9 favorites]


This was such a nice, pleasant MeTa.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:00 PM on May 5, 2013


And I'm fairly certain it is also a mockery of African American vernacular English.

People quoting Kanye's Swift-fu is pretty much always about referencing that weird/funny/rude thing that happened during a pop culture spectacle, not about Kanye being black or talking weird. Not every example of code switching or affected dialect is an example of mockery or racism or whatever, and the "Ima" construction isn't even isolated to AAVE in the first place but shows up in plenty of white southern dialect in particular.

I agree with you that the intent of the phrase is often sort of crappy—sometimes someone's quoting Kanye in the process of being a little bit of a dick to someone else in a thematically similar fashion—but that's a perfectly fine objection in its own right and not something that wrapping in "and also you're clearly being racist" is gonna help out much.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:09 PM on May 5, 2013 [3 favorites]


When white people use hip hop slang to be insulting it's racist.

But it's okay, because it is ironic racism.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:10 PM on May 5, 2013


Yo, dog?

Bit of axe there, old chap. Stiff upper lip there, alright?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:42 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oy vey!*
___________________________________
*Certificate of Bar Mitzvah available on request.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:54 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


So, what was your intent?
posted by mr. digits at 4:02 PM on May 5, 2013


(that being written, I bothered to check the original post and see that you didn't deploy the Kanye-ness; pardon me.)
posted by mr. digits at 4:06 PM on May 5, 2013


I don't use the ima construct because I think it's a pretty lazy way to be an asshole. If I am going to be an asshole, and I often am, I am going to at least put a bit of effort into it.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:27 PM on May 5, 2013 [3 favorites]


This was such a nice, pleasant MeTa.

It's still okay-ish. It hasn't yet turned into the MetaFilter equivalent of the Mumsnet Flouncers' Corner thread section, anyway.
posted by Wordshore at 4:27 PM on May 5, 2013


I kind of have no idea whether the complaint about "I'm-a let you finish" is serious in intent, or a complaint in fact about a perceived growth of language policing on MetaFilter framed as a demand for the policing of language..
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:52 PM on May 5, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm just waiting on a mate.
posted by pompomtom at 5:01 PM on May 5, 2013


"Mumsnet Flouncers' Corner"

Before I clicked the link, I thought that was some British address.
posted by klangklangston at 5:24 PM on May 5, 2013 [3 favorites]


Yes, a nice pleasant Meta indeed - and the op was very good about it.

I see the other chap got shown the door, fair enough.

Mumsnet is hardcore.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:31 PM on May 5, 2013


I kind of have no idea whether the complaint about "I'm-a let you finish" is serious in intent, or a complaint in fact about a perceived growth of language policing on MetaFilter framed as a demand for the policing of language..

I don't mean to freak you out, but I think it might have been *both*.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 5:34 PM on May 5, 2013



I kind of have no idea whether the complaint about "I'm-a let you finish" is serious in intent, or a complaint in fact about a perceived growth of language policing on MetaFilter framed as a demand for the policing of language..


REAL TALK
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:44 PM on May 5, 2013


I'd like to never hear or read the phrase "political correctness" ever again.
posted by scratch at 6:22 PM on May 5, 2013 [3 favorites]


I have made you a greasemonkey script. You can replace the word with whatever you'd like.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:48 PM on May 5, 2013 [8 favorites]


It's Perennial Cornicelessness gone mad!
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:53 PM on May 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


SCENE: MOD HQ

OPEN ON: Large whiteboard reading: DAYS SINCE META POST ABOUT COMMENT/POST DELETION: 1

PAN DOWN TO: r_n sighing, wiping off "1", writing in "0"
posted by Chrysostom at 11:07 PM on May 5, 2013 [29 favorites]


Jess, I hope you don't mind, but I made some modifications to your Greasemonkey script that help me to remember the words of the prophets.
posted by mintcake! at 7:55 AM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]


Finally!!!

replacements = {
"political correctness": "politeness",
"politically correct": "beautiful just the way you are",
"jessamyn": "cooter"

posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:06 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Please close the bracket, or at least use a trigger warning for programmers.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:16 AM on May 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


Trigger warning doesn't mean what you think it means.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:19 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's "trigger warming" sorry, the kerning was off earlier
posted by infini at 9:23 AM on May 6, 2013


Eh, crummy joke anyway - sorry if that was offensive.
posted by Dr Dracator at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2013


Not a big deal, thanks for understanding.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:32 AM on May 6, 2013


That's keeping your finger on, yes?
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:32 AM on May 6, 2013


spitbull, it might be worth opening up a new MeTa if you want to talk about the appropriateness of "I'm'a let you finish", since it seems fairly far afield from the subject of the original MeTa's complaint.
posted by Greg Nog at 9:40 AM on May 6, 2013


I believe that the value of this post is in the two linked videos of the bombing, which offer an entirely unique perspective on the Syria/Israel/Iran situation. The sheer authenticity of these videos -- by this I mean the fact that these videos seem to be shot by civilians, not journalists -- is something that, in itself, I think a lot of people here would have truly appreciated.

Really? Seems like war porn.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:23 AM on May 6, 2013


Bringing the reality of war home to the people sitting comfortably at desks isn't what I would call "war porn." I found the videos pretty impressive. Like I said, already seen them, and I know the thread would have been for shit, but that doesn't diminish their value to me.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


And I'm fairly certain it is also a mockery of African American vernacular English.

The only two things metafilter does worse than Israel/Palestine: Linguistics and casual racism.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:35 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Bringing the reality of war home to the people sitting comfortably at desks isn't what I would call "war porn."

I don't know about that - the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, as well as the Afghan war have made war a reality for a lot of people. We know what war is like.

The explosions in the videos are "spectacular" in the truest sense of the word "spectacle". Makes me glad that someone decided to blow up the missiles or whatever before they could be used and kill a lot of people.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:52 AM on May 6, 2013


We know what war is like.

Not really.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:01 PM on May 6, 2013


I just called

To say "I love you"?

And I'm fairly certain it is also a mockery of African American vernacular English.

I'd always taken it as a phonetic rendering of what Kanye actually sounded like when he said that. Kind of like how we always render a famous line from The Warriors as "...come out to pla-aaaay!" Sure, we could write "Warriors, come out to play!" but it wouldn't be as evocative of the actual sounds as "pla-aaaay".

On the other hand, though, writing "in a dialect" has had some unpleasant and unsavory connotations in the past, so I understand the concern. I'm pretty sure that in this instance, most people do "Imma let you finish" more like the "come out to pla-aaaaay" kinda thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:11 PM on May 6, 2013


Oh, and incidentally, I have had occasion to learn that a guy with a Cockney accent can do that line and still sound like David Patrick Kelly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:13 PM on May 6, 2013


>We know what war is like.

Not really.


Oh, fuck, give me a break, or at least the benefit of the doubt. There's no need to be a dick when we have different points of view.

No, I don't know what war is like. Thank Christ. But there are plenty of places to watch things blow up on the Internet besides MetaFilter, and posting war porn is not going to educate me about how bad war is.

I don't know what you want - that my face be rubbed in it? Canada didn't illegally invade Iraq. We don't give Israel $10 billion a year, some of which presumably went towards buying the bombs that blew up this ammo dump. We did fight in Afghanistan according to NATO treaty obligations, and we lost a lot of soldiers.

My father-in-law watched his daughter burn to death after a bombing raid. My grandmother fled the Russians in Pomerania. I know enough about war to know that some videos of big booms is not going to edumacate me one bit.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:17 PM on May 6, 2013


I've been waiting days for some one to make a FPP about this, and I find the link to it ...on MeTa? And then a bunch of joke comments?

Unlike the OP, I am not new around here, been lurking since (about two years after) the beginning, and this is unnerving. We're getting into Archduke Franz Ferdinand territory here, and THIS community buries its collective heads in the sand?

This does not belong in the old Syria post nor is it yet another I/P post. There is some potentially Serious Shit going down here, and I am afraid our good denizens are not looking at this objectively.

Do you folks really not understand the implications a wider war involving the Iranians and the Israelis has? Do you not understand how the dollar and the price of oil influence debt and inflation and the rather immediate implications that has for for the cost of living for most folks in the USA let alone the geopolitical adjustments this might effect in the EU?

This is not your American style war of choice stuff here. This is possibly the real thing. It deserves discussion.
posted by digitalprimate at 12:27 PM on May 6, 2013


> The only two things metafilter does worse than Israel/Palestine: Linguistics and casual racism.

MeFi has gotten a lot better with respect to linguistics. Trust me on this.
posted by languagehat at 12:30 PM on May 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


digitalprimate: "I've been waiting days for some one to make a FPP about this,
...
It deserves discussion.
"

Why have you been waiting? Make your own post. If you think it's worth discussing, then do it.
posted by zarq at 12:42 PM on May 6, 2013


This is not your American style war of choice stuff here. This is possibly the real thing. It deserves discussion.

No one said it didn't. Make a better post. We didn't say "Don't make this post here" We said "Make a better post."
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:47 PM on May 6, 2013


digital primate, did you try the Syria thread that's still open (which has been linked in this thread)?
I was initially agitating for a thread, but I can see 1) How the thread would lead to fights and 2) There is just not a lot of info at this point, unless somebody wants to draft Dexter Filkins to do a post or something. The UN and the US are disagreeing about who is using chemical weapons. That seems to be the news today.
posted by angrycat at 12:48 PM on May 6, 2013


Oh, fuck, give me a break, or at least the benefit of the doubt. There's no need to be a dick when we have different points of view. ... No, I don't know what war is like. Thank Christ. ... posting war porn is not going to educate me about how bad war is. .... I know enough about war to know that some videos of big booms is not going to edumacate me one bit.

Who says we have different points of view? I'd be inclined to agree with you that viewing these videos would do very little to give an idea of what war is really like. Plus presenting them devoid of context does push them towards being horror porn.

But you said that you know what war is like. Which is not true. Neither you nor I really know what the experience is like, thank God (or some ancestors who made some lucky/canny immigration decisions). Why not say "I overspoke there. But the rest of what I said is still valid", instead of starting to swear at me?
posted by benito.strauss at 1:00 PM on May 6, 2013


Make your own post...did you try the Syria thread....

Post in the Syria thread = buried. Make a new post = about 100 years of at first glance esoteric geopolitical and economy theory. Letting the community respond organically to an initial post is far easier and encompasses both.

Look, everyone has their own expectations of this place. I understand it is not all things to all people. But we're not maintaining a good signal to noise ratio here when potential game changers occur and we're more concerned with form than function.
posted by digitalprimate at 1:06 PM on May 6, 2013


about 100 years of at first glance esoteric geopolitical and economy theory

Well, I know of at least three users who'd be up for it. You think this is a game changer? Make the best post you can.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:20 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


But we're not maintaining a good signal to noise ratio here when potential game changers occur and we're more concerned with form than function.

You are part of us. And everyone believes that the topics that they care about in the breaking news arena are game changers. Some of them are and some of them turn out not to be. Which is one of the reasons that breaking news posts are difficult to make as posts that go well here. This is not a news site, it is a site where some people make posts about news. And there are guidelines associated with that, guidelines that are interpreted by humans and by this community and that change over time.

After watching a decade of "Let's all argue about a breaking news story when we don't have enough details to really actually talk about the thing itself" threads, we've made some adjustments. Make A Better Post is part of how the system works. I get that that's not acceptable to everyone, but I also feel that part of that is accepting that MetaFilter may not be the place you go when you need to discuss this sort of thing right after it happens. Or that if you really want to discuss it here, you need to do the work to put together a solid post.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:25 PM on May 6, 2013


Make A Better Post is part of how the system works....

Except for the vast majority of "good" threads that grew up organically based on the feedback of our tremendous user base because someone sparked the initial discussion.

I think the whole recognizing the initial discussion part is broken. Not to be (more) of an asshole, but I have to do this shit for a living, and I don't generally have the two or so hours it would take to make a "good' post about this.

One of the reasons I come here is because someone made a mediocre post about something important and the discussion elevates the thread into something substantial. There's not a lot of draw to a site that does only post mortems.
posted by digitalprimate at 1:37 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


Except for the vast majority of "good" threads that grew up organically based on the feedback of our tremendous user base because someone sparked the initial discussion.

I'm not sure what you're asserting, here; we've had lots of good threads, a portion of which have been about news-y topics but most of which haven't been; we've had lots of news posts, some of which have yielded pretty good threads and some of which not so much.

but I have to do this shit for a living, and I don't generally have the two or so hours it would take to make a "good' post about this.

Then let someone else make the post, or not make the post if that's the way it plays out. There is no mandate that a specific topic get posted about, there is no entitlement any given topic has to being for sure on the front page of Metafilter. If nobody has the time or will or material to make a solid post about a specific thing, so be it and that's okay. Arguing that a specific topic is so important that people should make bad posts doesn't really make sense on this site, but there's a whole bunch of other internet out there and most people here don't only read Metafilter so that kind of evens out in the end.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:41 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm starting to feel like "I'm here for the discussion" is the "I get it for the articles!" of MetaFilter.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:43 PM on May 6, 2013


I don't know about that - the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, as well as the Afghan war have made war a reality for a lot of people. We know what war is like.

I saw more blood on TV and in the newspaper after three minutes of the Boston Bombing than I have seen on TV and in the newspaper since 9/11 combined.

We've pretty much sanitized war for the home viewer.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:45 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


the man of twists and turns: "I'm starting to feel like "I'm here for the discussion" is the "I get it for the articles!" of MetaFilter."

Yes, but....
posted by zarq at 1:48 PM on May 6, 2013


Realistically what would I or anyone else post regarding the implications of a wider middle eastern war involving Iran and Israel that isn't a GYOB sort of thing? The idea, to me at least, is that a post - any non-offensive one - leads into a more fruitful general discussion.

Mods, I bow out of this MeTa; clearly I've gotten form and function confused. I'll just cruise on over to Reddit for some advice animals or something.
posted by digitalprimate at 1:49 PM on May 6, 2013


digitalprimate: " I think the whole recognizing the initial discussion part is broken. Not to be (more) of an asshole, but I have to do this shit for a living, and I don't generally have the two or so hours it would take to make a "good' post about this."

It would not take two hours to do a decent post about the situation. A post with a couple of links to in-depth news stories and perhaps a link to some historical context would probably survive.
posted by zarq at 1:49 PM on May 6, 2013


zarq: I actually was in the City this weekend and just saw Avenue Q for the first time.

hmm, current conflict leading to widening war in the MidEast...

that one's for free, you can have it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:01 PM on May 6, 2013


the man of twists and turns: "zarq: I actually was in the City this weekend and just saw Avenue Q for the first time."

Ha! Synchronicity. It's a fun show.
posted by zarq at 2:10 PM on May 6, 2013


It's been about a week since the FPP appeared, and nothing much has happened as a consequence of Israel's raid on Syria. Obviously the poster didn't know this at the time, and obviously something might have happened, but I think it's worth acknowledging that this deletion was the right call: the existing thread has been perfectly adequate for something that turned out be just one more element of a breaking news story.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:27 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I kinda got the same vibes from people's reactions to the strike that I got from the North Korea stuff recently. Some areas of the world have these tensions, they mostly don't lead to the regional war tipping point. It was a big story, but it wasn't end of the world we have to talk about this right now.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:30 AM on May 11, 2013


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