This person in the youtube videos does not need any more free publicity May 24, 2013 2:05 PM   Subscribe

Doing sickening things to your own body to earn revenue by Youtube page-views/ad-clicks is not something that needs to be promoted with its own post on MeFi.
posted by thewalrus to MetaFilter-Related at 2:05 PM (157 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

I'm fairly ambivalent about the post, I didn't watch the videos, but I'm not into gross-out humor so I don't really want to either.

Do you really think it's all a play to get money from YouTube revenue? It never occurred to me but then again I've never seen a check from YouTube on my own account and it has over a million views total. I can't imagine you could make much money if you're not Psy or someone with hundreds of millions of views.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:07 PM on May 24, 2013


Multiple youtube videos each with 1.5 million+ views is a lot of revenue. I browse with Adblock plus on, but for those who don't (99% of browsers), the person who posted the video earns revenue every time a pre-video ad plays to completion. More revenue for every click on an overlaid mini banner ad.
posted by thewalrus at 2:11 PM on May 24, 2013


What sort of entertainment benefit do people get from watching videos like these? Do they find them funny? Interesting? Disturbing? Why? I sincerely don't get it. When I see someone be so terribly, over-the-top self-destructive, I would rather help them move in a different direction than point and laugh.
posted by zarq at 2:14 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am the person who left that post up initially, and upon consideration I think you're right that it's not the kind of thing we necessarily want to be drawing attention to. I have deleted it.

Sometimes this happens, where a post is sufficiently not-my-cup-of-tea that I actually give it more leeway than I otherwise would, just to compensate for my own distaste. So it can be useful for people to drop us a note/flag/etc in these cases to let us know that other people agree. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:17 PM on May 24, 2013 [22 favorites]


Slippery slope here.

soooo... we're objecting to the post because you don't like the behavior, or you don't like that he's making a few bucks doing the behavior? If he wasn't making those few bucks, would you be OK with the post?
posted by HuronBob at 2:17 PM on May 24, 2013 [7 favorites]


This dude is all kinds of fascinating. Thanks for highlighting the post.
posted by dfriedman at 2:19 PM on May 24, 2013


Cleverly, this MeTa post about deletions was slipped in just under the wire for the Memorial Day weekend freeze. Good luck enjoying your vacation now, mods!
posted by Chrysostom at 2:25 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


The queue is already on, and we approved this one since we're around now.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:25 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


> Do you really think it's all a play to get money from YouTube revenue? It never occurred to me but then again I've never seen a check from YouTube on my own account and it has over a million views total.

Just to note that this is totally a thing. The Yogscast is a popular group of gaming personalities that blew up out of and still focus on Minecraft. They release about a video per day on their main channel which gets around a million views. They make enough money to rent an office and employ the main duo of personalities and some staff.

Total Biscuit is a gaming commentator/personality who posts about a video per day and gets around 200,000 views per video, and he makes enough to earn a living, employ a staff member, and has recently started sponsoring his own eSports team.

My understanding is once you start to get around 50,000 views per day or more, you can make a decent living off of YouTube for one person.
posted by gilrain at 2:30 PM on May 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


A quick search is showing an average of $5 per 1000 ad views for members of the Machinima network, which is a popular group of gaming channels. I don't know how often an ad is shown, so that's probably a fair amount less per actual view, but still you can see how it would add up.
posted by gilrain at 2:34 PM on May 24, 2013


If for nothing else I am glad for the deletion because of all the armchair diagnosing in the thread.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:50 PM on May 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


My understanding is once you start to get around 50,000 views per day or more, you can make a decent living off of YouTube for one person.

Sweet fancy Moses, I am going upstairs right now and forcing those goddamn lazy shiftless (but extremely cute and photogenic) cats to do some adorable shit on video because Mama just dropped $800 on getting the fucking trees trimmed and also needs some new records.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:53 PM on May 24, 2013 [44 favorites]


My god, those dancing high-chair twins people are probably in Fiji with giant umbrella drinks and hot-and-cold running cabana boys right now.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:56 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think my armchair is depressed. At least after I sit in it, anyway.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:01 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


In re the actual post under discussion, if it were just speed eating weird, probably unhealthy things... that's distasteful, but eh I can deal.

However, chugging an entire bottle of 151 proof (that's 75.5% pure ethanol) Bacardi can fucking kill you dead, and he apparently wound up in the hospital. It's not a snuff film, but any given update could be if he continues like this.
posted by gilrain at 3:02 PM on May 24, 2013 [10 favorites]


/sad that Tube is no longer on MeFi.
posted by Artw at 3:11 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am going upstairs right now and forcing those goddamn lazy shiftless (but extremely cute and photogenic) cats to do some adorable shit on video

I recommend catnip, a pringles can and a laser pointer.

Not necessarily in that order.
posted by Mooski at 3:32 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I remember seeing this ages ago...

I never completely believed these were real at all, and that he wasn't just a brilliant physical comedy actor. I mean, especially the vodka chug one. Several people on youtube have done that skit with just water and hamming it up.
posted by emptythought at 3:36 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Haven't seen any of it but certainly doesn't sound like Best of the Web, to me.
posted by Rash at 3:37 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Best of the Web

Deprecated.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:46 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


He already ate the best of the web.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:56 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


It was delicious.
posted by Big_B at 4:11 PM on May 24, 2013


... can fucking kill you dead, and he apparently wound up in the hospital. It's not a snuff film, but any given update could be if he continues like this.

That's exactly how I feel about all of the posts on the blue about base jumpers and those crazy guys who ride bikes really fast along crazy-steep ledges and most other extreme sports, but whatever.

It occurs to me that the post might have worked if I hadn't included the videos themselves, and just focused on the documentary about the guy. I certainly wouldn't have made a post just of his chugging videos, but included them as support for the documentary. I still believe that the documentary, which goes into why he does what he does and what he hopes to accomplish (he somehow thinks he's going to solve child hunger by doing this?), is fascinating and FPP-worthy.
posted by jbickers at 4:22 PM on May 24, 2013 [7 favorites]


I didn't think it was delete worthy. Who cares if he made money off the videos or how much? Every person or site we link to makes money somehow. Do we need to approve of how?

I wasn't too excited about the post, but eh.

I'd lean to the you don't have to click it camp.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:48 PM on May 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


So ... does this mean that FPPs about football or ballet or boxing will be deleted now? Because those are also self-harmful things, that people do for reasons like money or fame, and could possibly be an expression of mental illness, and could possibly lead to someone's death.

I'm not saying that this was a good FPP, but the stated reasons for deletion are basically bullshit.
posted by hattifattener at 4:58 PM on May 24, 2013 [11 favorites]


chugging an entire bottle of 151 proof (that's 75.5% pure ethanol) Bacardi can fucking kill you dead

Six months after that he posted another video where he downs an entire bottle of Everclear (190 proof). He must vomit immediately after turning off the camera or something, because otherwise you'd just be dead.
posted by Rhomboid at 5:32 PM on May 24, 2013


I do agree that the interview video was interesting (or, the first 7 mins, I didn't finish the whole thing), jbickers. That is why I initially left the post up, and I agree it's a sort of borderline situation about the deletion.

My weightings about whether to delete at first were close to 50-50, and then as more people expressed reservations in the thread, and flagged, and then this thread, and pointing out the alcohol ones (eating a bunch of paper or soap is one thing, but drinking a whole bottle of liquor at a go is something else)... those things made me tip over to delete. I agree it's a near thing.

It's an interesting question about the difference between this and eg football -- clearly we don't rule out every activity where someone could get hurt, and just as clearly there is *some* line beyond which videos of people doing super-dangerous or self-harming things in order to post them online are not okay. I don't have a general principle for where that line is, though; would be interested to hear if someone else has a thought about that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:37 PM on May 24, 2013


My thought, if the person is only harming themselves...let 'em. That's generally my stance on anything. If he were harming others...we don't need that.

We allow posts all the time where we gush about how the people in question are living their lives as they see fit. Personally, and I do mean personally (YMMV), I see nothing different between this and body modification. The guy has decided he wants to be a freak show. We're not exploiting him. He's doing this and recording it himself.

Personally, I didn't much care for the post, but I only watched a handful of the videos and he seemed to think he was just a laugh riot. That works for some, but I did disagreed with him. I didn't think he was funny at all.

Would we allow a Jackass post? Because this guy is basically a home brewed Jonny Knoxville.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:56 PM on May 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


Something tells me whatever happens on Metafilter isn't going to have an effect on what/how much he eats or drinks.
posted by Sarcasm at 6:27 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

... can fucking kill you dead, and he apparently wound up in the hospital. It's not a snuff film, but any given update could be if he continues like this.

That's exactly how I feel about all of the posts on the blue about base jumpers and those crazy guys who ride bikes really fast along crazy-steep ledges and most other extreme sports, but whatever.
That's exactly how I feel about all of the posts on the blue about football and hockey, but I'm not clamoring for their deletion, either. It's not your goddamned call, mods.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:32 PM on May 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


In all of those examples, people are taking the risk of being hurt as a side effect of the activity. A collection of videos of athletes getting injured on the field without context, or base jumpers falling to their deaths, would almost certainly get deleted too.
posted by anifinder at 7:59 PM on May 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


Actually, it is their goddamned call.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:04 PM on May 24, 2013 [33 favorites]


He's no Tarrare.
posted by unliteral at 8:06 PM on May 24, 2013


It's not your goddamned call, mods.

Isn't it?
posted by shakespeherian at 8:08 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


You really are OK with matt, jessamyn, cortex, etc., telling us what's OK to talk about. You really are happy with that. Mindblowing.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:26 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I would respond to that but the mods won't let me.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:33 PM on May 24, 2013 [11 favorites]


Do I agree with every deletion? No. I didn't agree with this one, for example.

Am I happy with the concept of a moderated site? Yeah. It's one of the things that keeps the place from being a cesspool.


Metafilter has been moderated since Day One. If you find the concept of moderation philosophically objectionable, there are many other sites on the internet.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:34 PM on May 24, 2013 [31 favorites]


KIDDING!
posted by octobersurprise at 8:35 PM on May 24, 2013


Also, given that you are a regular participant in deletion threads, and have even posted your own, I think the spectrum of opinion concerning moderation is not really news to you.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:38 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


You really are happy with that. Mindblowing.

If we all collectively agree to admit that we're just blind stupid meek pathetic sheep and you are the sole voice of reason and FREEDOM in a world of fascist censorship madness will you finally stop relentlessly galloping this tedious hobbyhorse all over every single even vaguely deletion-related MeTa? Because I would be down for that.
posted by elizardbits at 8:49 PM on May 24, 2013 [101 favorites]


You really are happy with that. Mindblowing.

Well at least one of us winds up happy!
posted by shakespeherian at 9:37 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I didn't care for the post, but it probably shouldn't have been deleted.

This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
posted by homunculus at 10:06 PM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Well played, good sir.
posted by radwolf76 at 10:46 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Actually, this post is more sickening than the one about Shoenice22, could you please delete it too?
posted by homunculus at 11:02 PM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


You really are OK with matt, jessamyn, cortex, etc., telling us what's OK to talk about. You really are happy with that. Mindblowing.

Did you miss the part where LM noted there were lots of flags on the post and people - regular ole MeFites, not the mod squad - commenting that it should be taken down???
posted by hapax_legomenon at 1:25 AM on May 25, 2013


You really are OK with matt, jessamyn, cortex, etc., telling us what's OK to talk about.

I really am ok with the moderators moderating topics and conversations on this moderated, privately-owned community website, yes.
posted by bardophile at 1:46 AM on May 25, 2013 [14 favorites]


You've deleted the king of the web, bitches.
posted by walrus at 2:24 AM on May 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


You really are OK with matt, jessamyn, cortex, etc., telling us what's OK to talk about.

Hell, I've been trying to get them to dress me.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:52 AM on May 25, 2013 [30 favorites]


Yeah, not into this deletion, but not furious about it.

Hilarious spitbull impression, MrMoonPie.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 5:23 AM on May 25, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hell, I've been trying to get them to dress me.

And they should send me presents. I shouldn't even have to say that, it's self-evident, really.
posted by Namlit at 5:34 AM on May 25, 2013 [2 favorites]


You really are OK with matt, jessamyn, cortex, etc., telling us what's OK to talk about. You really are happy with that. Mindblowing.

Really? Someone editing the status of a single webpage so that it is "closed" and you can't add more comments to it causes you to do this? Okay. Guess we won't be hearing from you again. Also, clean that mess up.
posted by Wordshore at 6:22 AM on May 25, 2013


.Total Biscuit is a gaming commentator/personality who posts about a video per day and gets around 200,000 views per video, and he makes enough to earn a living, employ a staff member, and has recently started sponsoring his own eSports team

He also makes money streaming on twitch.tv and commentating starcraft for tournaments.
posted by empath at 6:31 AM on May 25, 2013


I've never seen a check from YouTube on my own account and it has over a million views total

I don't get how the whole thing works, but four years ago a dog we were fostering had this weird problem I figured was kennel cough but wanted to confirm before taking him to a vet so I posted a quick phone video and asked someone (possibly our own Ufez) if it was. In the intervening time, youtube has bugged me about this and that and I've mechanically clicked on some Terms of Service things, etc. In January they sent me an email asking where to send the $190 I've earned. It's up to about 200,000 views now. I couldn't tell you how the whole system works, but if < 200,000 views over four years is worth $190 to them, he must be seeing some money.
posted by yerfatma at 6:51 AM on May 25, 2013 [4 favorites]


I've never seen a check from YouTube on my own account and it has over a million views total

Did you put ads on your account? I don't, so won't get a check.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:04 AM on May 25, 2013


He's no Tarrare.

wtf
posted by cjorgensen at 7:13 AM on May 25, 2013


Privately-owned website, hell! I wish the mods would come to my work and delete some of the dumb things I say during meetings. If they could ban some of my coworkers, that would be gravy.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:14 AM on May 25, 2013 [11 favorites]


Helping me with my supervision might also be something not entirely sub-optimal, in fact. [a huge number of paragraphs deleted. Keep to the topic folks. Thanks]
posted by Namlit at 8:39 AM on May 25, 2013


One of the things that concerns me personally about links (here and elsewhere) to videos of this kind of behavior is the resulting net increase in people who come across the idea and will think "boy howdy, that's something I ought to try." I don't think MetaFilter (or any other blog) has much impact, big or small, on participation in established activities like hockey/football/etc., and even X-Games and base jumping are widely celebrated all over the place, so they're a bit of a lost cause, too.

"Watch me while I personally do insanely dangerous thing no one would ever pay another person to do because they would end out being sued, and do it for reasons that may or may not include mental instability and a deep desire for attention even if I get killed in the process of earning it" is not in the same category as such posts, as far as I'm concerned. I'd also flag a link to a pre-martyrdom or self-immolation video, and for the same reason.

(Same argument goes for the by-nearly-explicit-policy Stormfront deletions, I had thought - the negative or positive impact on the world has a semi-realistic potential for being significant. Plus, you know, unpleasant and disturbing and objectionable content in its own right; fight-starting and point-and-laugh are also routine deletion reasons, yes?)
posted by SMPA at 9:34 AM on May 25, 2013


It's a blatant false analogy to link someone who chugs lethal amounts of alcohol for a bit of internet fame to contentiously dangerous sports. At least in the latter there's an obvious support network of professionals standing by if an accident does happen and even then there are safety regulations limiting the dangerousness of the stunt and encouraging that as much protective gear as needed is used. And while there might be serious, long-term consequences for athletes who play football, those studies are controversial and there's an active body of concerned regulators who presumably would act once the link has been sufficiently established.

There are none of these things in this case and the obviousness of the danger from consuming objects that are not federally regulated for consumption or from ingesting lethal amounts of alcohol doesn't need to be made explicit by a doctor. In the same way that I did not want to see blurred images of the Steubenville rape or Facebook 'activism' featuring the torture of animals, I do not want to see this. It's a circus sideshow of gore and self-harm and the blurry lines between agent decision making and mob goading is something that definitely crosses an uncomfortable threshold. It's rotten.com shit, it's teenagers laughing at a raccoon that's been hit by a car, it's paying homeless men to fight each other, and it's definitely not the norm for the vast majority of MetaFilter posts.
posted by dubusadus at 11:25 AM on May 25, 2013 [11 favorites]


"is not something that needs to be promoted with its own post on MeFi."

I wish I could get worked up about this deletion because I really hate the wording of this complaint.
posted by mullacc at 11:56 AM on May 25, 2013 [4 favorites]


It is a slippery slope, but as somebody who participates in extreme sports, here's my take on the difference between the subject of this post and people like me:

Shoenice appears to be doing this in large part because of the attention that he is receiving by it. He's doing these things expressly to be watched by others, and because he would not be doing these things without you the viewer being present you become complicit in any (potentially) terrible outcomes. Anything that gives him more attention is magnifying the problem. I don't know that Metafilter would really have much impact there, but that's a judgement call and I can respect the deletion on these grounds.

In contrast, myself and most people that I've met who do extreme sports do not give a damn whether or not you're watching us. We do it because we love it, love the challenge and the thrill and the experience, and we do it whether or not anybody's filming us. Sure, it's always fun to show off to the cameras, but they're not why we're doing these things. When you see videos of freestyle MXers doing backflips or wingsuiters buzzing a road, you're just an observer, because whether or not anybody is watching has little or no impact on our decision to do these dangerous things that we love. Trying to say that videos of us doing these things are themselves harmful strikes me as ignorant of human nature - people are going to continue to do dangerous but thrilling things no matter what. I think that concern trolling any "people doing crazy things" posts out of existence isn't going to actually stop anybody; if anything, it'll just suppress genuinely useful information on things like safety equipment.
posted by hackwolf at 12:54 PM on May 25, 2013 [4 favorites]


"...the blurry lines between agent decision making and mob goading is something that definitely crosses an uncomfortable threshold."

That's the crux of it for me and it's what hackwolf is talking about, too. I don't like the exploitative reality television, either. I don't really complain about posts concerning that kind of reality TV, though, and it's because somewhere there's a line crossed, IMO, when it becomes ten-thousand people uploading stupid, dangerous stunt videos every week to YouTube. In the latter, being that it's primarily an internet viral media, MeFi exposure really is part of the problem.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:41 PM on May 25, 2013 [2 favorites]


I would be really curious as to the statistics regarding fatalities resulting from activities that were expressly performed in order to post a video on youtube. I wonder what the numbers are..
posted by HuronBob at 1:44 PM on May 25, 2013


You mean, like, all those kids with their skateboards, ladies who fall backwards into a pool with a crocodile, and backflip-floppers who break their necks? Hundreds of thousands, likely.
posted by Namlit at 1:47 PM on May 25, 2013


You mean, like, all those kids ......

No, actually I meant individuals like the subject of this FPP, whose focus is on producing a video of an odd, unusual behavior expressly to rack up youtube views. I'm not asking about accidents that happen during more traditional activities (skateboarding, diving, etc) which are engaged in by a significant number of people as recreation.

Commenters have expressed that we shouldn't encourage this behavior, I understand that, but I wonder if our concern is supported by the data....
posted by HuronBob at 1:53 PM on May 25, 2013


It would be interesting to devise a sound methodology for collecting that kind (and magnitude) of data, while taking the potentially vast grey zones into account.
I think we're here rather talking about a better-be-on-the-safe-side-one-glove-fits-all policy. Whatever one thinks about it.
posted by Namlit at 2:00 PM on May 25, 2013


I'm not really seeing the slippery slope argument here. Things like football and ballet do involve some degree of "self harm", but at varying levels and, most importantly, they are peripheral effects of the spectator activity - watching a dude down a potentially lethal amount of alcohol makes the self-harm the spectator activity itself. It's like, yeah - people cut themselves on cooking shows, but a show where some guy stands there and cuts his fingers with different knives? This, I think, crosses the line from "yeah these people could/do get hurt as a part of doing these things" to "the entertainment is the injury", which I'm totally down with not encouraging.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on May 25, 2013 [19 favorites]


This is the mod's call but we're still supposed to say whether or not we support the decision. I for one think this was a bad call by the philosopher kings. If this guy had actually hurt himself in the video I would understand, but mostly he was being funny even when doing dumb things, and the content was a lot more than a single link of him binge drinking. Nbd, but wrong call, ime. TY have a great memorial day.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:24 PM on May 25, 2013


Just think: if Richey Edwards had had the foresight to get Steve Lamacq to film him carving "4 REAL" into his arm, he could have made thousands on YouTube, and then the Manic Street Preachers wouldn't have had to make so many terrible albums after Richey threw himself off the Severn Bridge!
posted by Len at 4:38 PM on May 25, 2013


GG Allin. Bob Flanagan.
posted by Splunge at 4:59 PM on May 25, 2013


There was, I think, some nonsense about chugging bottles of Patron a year or two back. It spawned tons of copy cat videos where idiots thought, hey, I can totally do that, which usually led to vomiting. I don't think I'd want to see that on the blue, whether or not you subscribe to the 'best of the web' philosophy or not.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:40 PM on May 25, 2013


When I was young, like 400 years ago, sometime around 1984 (give or take a few years), there was this show called "Night Flight." This may have been one or two words. I don't recall (mostly because I am drunk right now). I used to record this show to a thing called a VHS tape and watch it during reasonable hours.

The dude who was dating my sister, also known as my future brother-in-law, was watching me watch one of these shows of Nightflight or Night Flight and says, "That guy won't amount to anything." That guy was Mike Ness.

Yeah, hate when people are self destructive.

Let's never do a post on Darby Crash or Iggy Pop.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:53 PM on May 25, 2013 [2 favorites]


I was pretty much in agreement with this deletion right up until cjorgensen convinced me that if we can't have posts about a teen girl killing herself in a YouTube video, we couldn't have posts about Iggy Pop because cjorgensen's brother-in-law didn't like Mike Ness.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:00 PM on May 25, 2013 [6 favorites]


there was this show called "Night Flight."

Only the greatest TV show ever produced.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:03 PM on May 25, 2013


Wait, what? We have teen kids killing themselves on YouTube now?
posted by cjorgensen at 7:05 PM on May 25, 2013


We had an FPP about Night Flight a few years ago and it's come up in a bunch of other FPPs since... I could have sworn there was an omnibus post with like every segment ever aired linked, but wasn't able to find it - possibly just my imagination.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:05 PM on May 25, 2013


A hundred years or so ago there were travelling carnivals, which were entertainment but not really up to the level of a circus. These were the places that had thing like "bearded ladies" and "rubber men" where you'd pay a dime to see a short show.

One of the most popular attractions in such carnivals was the "geek show". The eponymous geek was the guy who would do rather gross things in front of an audience, like bite off the head of a live chicken, or drink a bucket of soapy water and then bazooka-vomit it back up again.

But time and technology marches on, and now the geek has a youtube channel and makes a lot more than a dime off it. Whether this is progress is left as an exercise to the student.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:08 PM on May 25, 2013 [4 favorites]


I was going to mention carnival geeks, but figured everyone here was aware of them.

I don't think that's comparable because carnival geeks were practicing a trade as part of a community. These kinds of YouTube videos commodifies exploitative self-harm in a way that I think has all sorts of negative consequences.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:20 PM on May 25, 2013


Weren't most geeks a local drunk who the show picked up and promised free booze in exchange for doing the geek show? I can't remember who I read that from. Ellison? King?
posted by Ghidorah at 7:23 PM on May 25, 2013


I just went looking for some scholarly references and found they are sparse to nonexistent. Wikipedia agrees with your recollection, though.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:41 PM on May 25, 2013


Artw: "/sad that Tube is no longer on MeFi."

Wait, what? He posted as recently as a couple of weeks ago. And yes, he's probably the mefite best qualified to weigh in on this.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:46 PM on May 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


zarq: "What sort of entertainment benefit do people get from watching videos like these? Do they find them funny? Interesting? Disturbing? Why? I sincerely don't get it."

I'm thinking it's the train wreck factor... people are so appalled they can't stop looking. At least, if I saw a video where a guy drinks shampoo, I think that would be the only reason I'd continue watching.

That or the "gross out your friends" factor, like when 2 Girls 1 Cup went around, my friend at the time found it disgusting but thought it would be hilarious to show and see her sister's reaction, which was near vomiting.
posted by IndigoRain at 10:56 PM on May 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


Indeed, 2 Girls 1 Cup reaction videos became a thing in themselves, and were usually really entertaining. Sort of proto-First Goatse.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:24 PM on May 25, 2013


"Sort of proto-First Goatse."

I don't understand what you mean. Goatse itself preceded 2G1C by a decade. I've not heard of reactions videos of either; are goatse reaction videos a recent thing?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:42 PM on May 25, 2013


Folks, it was "goatse.cs".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:45 AM on May 26, 2013


.cx
posted by radwolf76 at 3:09 AM on May 26, 2013


Like I said, it was "goatse.cx".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:10 AM on May 26, 2013 [4 favorites]


goatse.cs is the source code, defining the main Giver and Receiver classes.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:27 AM on May 26, 2013 [5 favorites]


Goatse itself preceded 2G1C by a decade.

Right, I got "proto" wrong.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:54 AM on May 26, 2013


Please, let us all now debate the correct address for the anal stretching guy!
posted by h00py at 5:31 AM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Thanks, dubusadus, hackwolf, and Marisa Stole the Precious Thing, y'all captured my responses to "this is just like sports!"

These are like watching intentional car crashes where the driver hopes to survive, not the Indy 500. MetaFilter doesn't have to be a place to discuss everything, the internet has plenty of space for it all.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:40 AM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Proxy 'first goatse'", maybe. And yes, reaction vids of people seeing them has been a thing for a long time. I remember the specific subgenre of "pics of Ron Jeremy reacting with delight to other people's reactions of horror when he showed them goatse for the first time after he saw it for the first time".
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:04 AM on May 26, 2013 [3 favorites]


I watched almost all of the Vice documentary when it was posted. The actual videos he makes don't appeal to me so I didn't watch them, but the documentary was good enough on its own for a FPP. I don't spend a lot of time on youtube, so I had no idea that people like this exist, and thought the doc was an interesting look into a modern subculture/character, and I really like that type of content here. I also don't think MeFi is going to drive tons of traffic to his page. I would've preferred all links but the Vice one get taken down, but I figure that's against some kind of mod policy?
posted by antonymous at 8:24 AM on May 26, 2013


If you're not a YouTube partner and you're getting millions of hits, you're throwing money away. I'd just as soon see this guy (not that I'm going to watch) make some money, rather than YouTube sanctioned posters or those funded by some studio.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:41 AM on May 26, 2013


I would've preferred all links but the Vice one get taken down, but I figure that's against some kind of mod policy?

Yeah, we don't unilaterally edit posts for content (or really, more than very rarely, edit them more than a small nudge even with explicit permission of the poster) since as a rule we want posts to be what users make of them. Deleting something and letting someone try again is instead the normal policy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:56 AM on May 26, 2013


I would've preferred all links but the Vice one get taken down....

Which is the opposite of the usual complaint. People say they want context and not single link or link padded posts. Here you had a link that few are questioning it's interest surrounded by a bunch of videos of questionable value, but without those you are left with the kind of post most say they dislike.

I don't like the deletion, but I support it. If an occasional acceptable post gets axed to keep the site mostly clear of crap then I am for it.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:20 AM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Speaking for myself, I think the Vice piece could probably work as a standalone post. It really was the most could-easily-kill-you stunts from the guy's channel that moved me toward deleting the previous post. I think there is a definitely a way to make a good post that would lead to a good discussion of the phenomenon of people making a living with stuff like this on Youtube.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:16 PM on May 26, 2013


But the "could-easily-kill-you stunts" are still out there. I don't see a significant distinction between linking to the source material and linking to something about the source material. Also, in my mind, the "discussion of the phenomenon of people making a living with stuff like this on Youtube" is what this thread has been about, not that one.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:32 PM on May 26, 2013


My thought was, the Vice piece (or the section of it I watched) was a biography and background piece on someone who does this odd thing. Making a post mainly about that - who are the people who are making a living posting weird videos to youtube? let's make them a little more three-dimensional - is a very different thing from making a post about 'hey watch this dude drink a whole bottle of liquor at one go'. (Not saying the latter was jbickers' intent with the original post; just saying why there's a difference between focusing on the about-the-guy stuff vs focusing on watch-the-guy-doing-harmful-thing.)
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:40 PM on May 26, 2013


(I'm basically just agreeing with jbickers' comment above.)
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:42 PM on May 26, 2013


I've never seen a check from YouTube on my own account and it has over a million views total

You have to enable monetization / link an AdSense account and then you can turn on ads on your videos through the video dashboard (former "my videos" page) by claiming them and choosing ad types.

I don't remember the exact flow but it shouldn't be too hard to find / Google, if you are interested.

These days pretty much anyone can turn ads on on their videos, its not like a few years ago where you had to go through the relatively complicated Partner Program (if you get a LOT of views you may also be invited to that which gives you a little more sales support and stuff, but anyone with an account in good standing should be able to turn on ads).
posted by wildcrdj at 5:28 PM on May 26, 2013


If it was a cat eating cinnamon or a dog drinking shampoo or a cockatiel pepper spraying himself you would allow it.
posted by Teakettle at 6:04 PM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


only if it was riding on a roomba at the time
posted by elizardbits at 6:26 PM on May 26, 2013 [3 favorites]


When did Metafilter get so squeamish? I'm not into this, but that's cool - I don't plan on watching it. He doesn't seem like he's hurting anyone but himself.

Hold up, I need to go and download the next 2 hour podcast by one of our mods where he talks about a film series that's mostly about people getting their skinned ripped off.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 8:23 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


It really was the most could-easily-kill-you stunts from the guy's channel that moved me toward deleting the previous post.

So we shouldn't link the Red Bull guy jumping out of the space capsule? Or cool driving or skiing stunts?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 8:26 PM on May 26, 2013


So we shouldn't link the Red Bull guy jumping out of the space capsule? Or cool driving or skiing stunts?

There is a difference between undertaking a risky activity, and self-harm. This is the latter. Your examples are the former.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:41 PM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


The primary intent isn't self-harm, though. Its to entertain.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 8:44 PM on May 26, 2013


When did Metafilter get so squeamish?

Summer of 2011. Things were going fine until Charlie wanted to wrestle that gator.

I still can't believe they served meat at his wake.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:45 PM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


In fairness, it was gator meat.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:46 PM on May 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


CiS, I mean this in the nicest way, but it would be grand if you wouldn't pop into threads and lay down some Righteous Truth without first reading the goddam thread.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:46 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


I did read the thread, and none of the arguments convinced me.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 8:48 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


I just gotta say... I clicked through and ended up watching his video about the Oreos. I could've eaten them faster. Now I am unsure if that makes me gross or a YouTube sensation.
posted by youngergirl44 at 8:54 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Reductive blanket statements are a surefire way to get any conversation rolling.

Charlemagne, I don't think your argument is convincing. I think your argument is banal. Choo choo!
posted by dubusadus at 8:55 PM on May 26, 2013


Shakes, I mean this in the nicest way, but it would be grand if you wouldn't pop. You're not a goddamn popcorn kernal, knock it off.

Don't get salty either.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:01 PM on May 26, 2013


Once he pops he can't stop. It's a medical condition.
posted by elizardbits at 10:28 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hold up, I need to go and download the next 2 hour podcast by one of our mods where he talks about a film series that's mostly about people getting their skinned ripped off.

Skinning and degloving, while iconic recurring themes in the Hellraiser franchise, represent only very small portions of the total runtime of each film. For the record.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:59 PM on May 26, 2013 [4 favorites]


I can dream now, Cortex. Oh, you wouldn't believe what I can dream of now.
posted by Artw at 11:34 PM on May 26, 2013 [2 favorites]


The primary intent isn't self-harm, though. Its to entertain.

I'm positive it's really not that hard to understand the differences in entertainment. Taking delight in the spectacle of an athlete perfectly threading a needle in a wingsuit that takes a huge amount of skill and training to pull off is quite different than getting your sadistic jollies off by watching some random Joe Blow chew on razor blades.
posted by Rocket Surgeon at 12:19 AM on May 27, 2013


MetaTalk: you opened the box, we came.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:42 AM on May 27, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm positive it's really not that hard to understand the differences in entertainment. Taking delight in the spectacle of an athlete perfectly threading a needle in a wingsuit that takes a huge amount of skill and training to pull off is quite different than getting your sadistic jollies off by watching some random Joe Blow chew on razor blades.

What about someone like Justice Yeldham, who creates music and art partly through eating glass? Or a trained circus performer who did the same thing? A sword swallower?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 1:07 AM on May 27, 2013


I think you're just being deliberately obtuse.

The people with whom you're arguing (and that implicitly includes me) have already articulated the distinctions and related reasoning you're querying. That you don't find that reasoning "convincing" is fine, that happens. That because you don't accept the reasoning you think it makes sense to pretend that it hasn't already been explained and to then make slippery-slope arguments as if those distinctions don't exist is both disingenuous and unproductive.

The charitable assumption was that you didn't actually read the thread.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:29 AM on May 27, 2013 [4 favorites]


What's the consensus? ps. I love you all
posted by infini at 5:18 AM on May 27, 2013


lu2 infini
posted by wayland at 5:27 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


In 1971, the artist Chris Burden had a friend shoot him. Had YouTube existed, I'm sure it would have been posted.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:19 AM on May 27, 2013 [2 favorites]


That's either a really good friend or a really bad one.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:52 AM on May 27, 2013


A good friend will help you move, a but a true friend will shoot you for an art project, then pulverize your teeth, burn off your fingerprints, disfigure your face, and remove the toilet from its base for access to one of the largest sewer pipes that enters your house, being smart from the very beginning.
posted by Rhomboid at 8:01 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


What's the consensus?

People should read the links before commenting. Also, don't drink shampoo.
posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on May 27, 2013


But Dr. Bronner's smells so minty - it has to taste good!
posted by soundguy99 at 8:38 AM on May 27, 2013 [2 favorites]


You'll poop your way to happiness.
posted by zarq at 8:49 AM on May 27, 2013


RTFA is the new RTFA? zarq.. I had higher hopes...
posted by infini at 9:24 AM on May 27, 2013


In 1971, the artist Chris Burden had a friend shoot him. Had YouTube existed, I'm sure it would have been posted.

It was possible to be an attention seeking idiot before youtube, it’s just easier now. When a child or a dog is throwing a tantrum you ignore them, you don’t give them attention, it just encourages them.
posted by bongo_x at 9:45 AM on May 27, 2013


When a dog is throwing a tantrum, I record it with my phone and upload it to YouTube.
posted by box at 10:06 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


He said artist, not child. No one shoots kids for art. That would be wrong.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:12 AM on May 27, 2013


what
posted by Namlit at 10:25 AM on May 27, 2013


Had YouTube existed, I'm sure it would have been posted.
It is posted ... on Youtube.
posted by DaddyNewt at 10:44 AM on May 27, 2013


In the Aspen, Colorado area, the mass-transit agency is called the Roaring Fork Transit Authority, because Roaring Fork river. That means the acronym RFTA is emblazoned all over the buses and the bus schedules and whatnot. Each time you see a bus, you get a nice little reminder to Read Fucking The Article.

In summary, Read Fucking The Article.
posted by medusa at 11:33 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


"We've secretly replaced this Deadhead's bottle of Dr. Bronner's with ordinary gas station public washroom liquid soap. Let's see if he can notice the difference ..."
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:47 AM on May 27, 2013


Like Deadheads use soap.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:52 AM on May 27, 2013


Where are the doritos?
posted by infini at 12:26 PM on May 27, 2013


I always thought the Dr. Bronner's bottle was just there next to the sink for show. Seeing how they're perpetually full.

You can, apparently, wash dishes and brush your teeth with it, though. Anyone here ever tried it? Does brushing your teeth with it give you the trots, as I imagine using any other kind of soap would? I'm not doubting it's ability to clean or anything. Just wondering how good of an idea it is to brush with it.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:53 PM on May 27, 2013


You're not supposed to swallow the soap.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:54 PM on May 27, 2013


Also, read-fucking rubs me the wrong way
posted by Namlit at 12:57 PM on May 27, 2013


You're not supposed to swallow toothpaste, either, but trace elements left even after rinsing get down your gullet somehow.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:09 PM on May 27, 2013


Here I read "brace elements" and I thought you're doing it wrong...
posted by Namlit at 1:12 PM on May 27, 2013


I'll have some of what Namlit's having
posted by infini at 1:20 PM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


I always thought the Dr. Bronner's bottle was just there next to the sink for show. Seeing how they're perpetually full.

It just takes one drop to wash your hands! I have some by the sink and it does eventually deplete, a little. Most of the time you're better off just brushing your teeth with a bare brush or baking soda though, I don't think I'd want my teeth tasting like roses.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:01 PM on May 27, 2013


Oh cool. I'm all for soap that lasts forever, one drop at a time. I normally use a few drops of soap in a glass of water, wherein I dip the dish scrubbing brush. Makes one of those rinky-dink quarter-liter bottles last forever.

I tried the baking soda method for teeth brushing for a while, but my breath smelled awful, and I think it made my already-sensitive teeth more so. Which was a shame, because they were clean and TV commercial white.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:18 PM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


Infini, it's RTFA all the way down.
posted by zarq at 2:51 PM on May 27, 2013


Rehearse The Fucking Alphabet
posted by Namlit at 3:50 PM on May 27, 2013


He said artist, not child. No one shoots kids for art. That would be wrong.

Why not? Pretty much everything is excused in the name of art, and there are people who make sorta winking defenses of William S Burroughs shooting his wife (my favorite is the biography that claims she psychically attracted the bullet to her own head).
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:13 PM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]


Burroughs made that claim himself, in "Literary Outlaw", adding that "the Ugly Spirit" made his arm drop. I have yet to see anyone seriously defend Burroughs shooting his wife, which seems anyway totally beside the point of Dr. Bronner's.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:33 PM on May 27, 2013 [2 favorites]


That was the book!
anyway literally murdering kids for art would probably be wrong, but with the way modern art works these days some kind of symbolic or metaphorical child murder could happen. hell there's a videogame series where teens shoot themselves in the head and its pretty well regarded
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:02 PM on May 27, 2013


Careful with that axe, Eugene.

(Seriously, if you ran down someone's dog, I think you'd be, like, "Why are you angry at me? I bet you'd pay a modern artist to run over your dog.")
posted by octobersurprise at 5:35 PM on May 27, 2013


animal sacrifice is a really powerful symbol, actually, and one that grounds religion and faith in flesh and blood. it was practiced for most of human history
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:38 PM on May 27, 2013


So global humanity online will depend on context and understanding (RTFA) before consensus and agreement to disagrees?
posted by infini at 2:12 AM on May 28, 2013


it was practiced for most of human history

I think you have the wrong tense there.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:58 AM on May 28, 2013


Okay, sure, “It will be practiced for most of human history.”.
posted by hattifattener at 10:40 PM on May 28, 2013


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