Sorry April 30, 2014 12:13 PM   Subscribe

I received a very thoughtful mail today from goodnewsfortheinsane calling me out for "snark inflation" and asking me to "tone it down a bit." The mod is right to call me out - I have been indeed been in a snarky mood - and I want to say sorry.

I have been dragged over here to MetaTallk a few times in the past, but this is the first time I received a mail from one of the mods - which considering how long I have been here - speaks well to their restraint and toleration. As I have increasingly been feeling out of place here, I am taking this as a sign that it's time to move on.

I'm going to disable my account for a while and give myself a time out, but did not want to disappear without saying thanks for - what is it? seven years - of interesting and valuable company of a lot of great people.

Best wishes and if you are ever in my neck of the woods, I am happy to buy any one of you a drink. Cheers!
posted by three blind mice to Etiquette/Policy at 12:13 PM (165 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite

What's this place coming to? Civilized flameouts?
posted by pjern at 12:26 PM on April 30, 2014 [49 favorites]


Holy mothballs. This was done with more taste and restraint than I would have anticipated. Thank you.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:29 PM on April 30, 2014 [9 favorites]


Until tomorrow...
posted by Melismata at 12:32 PM on April 30, 2014


Fair enough. I feel compelled at this point to note though that I at no point brought up buttoning — some small part of me is now kind of terrified folks may think I'm the bouncer mod. I did send a note to saying hey, what's up with the snark, after noticing an increase in friction, flags, what have you. So hey, no need to apologize for my part. And certainly no need to button: but if taking a break is how it goes, then that's how it goes. Godspeed.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 12:34 PM on April 30, 2014 [25 favorites]


Holy mothballs. This was done with more taste and restraint than I would have anticipated. Thank you.

Agreed. Take care out there, tbm.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:57 PM on April 30, 2014


I haven't been as active as I once was, so this use of 'button' as a verb is thrilling and new!
posted by Mister_A at 1:04 PM on April 30, 2014 [14 favorites]


The reason why I would perhaps not be a good mod has never been more clear than my reaction to imagining being thought of as "the bouncer mod" -- I would be overjoyed.

Despite making a joke-that-isn't-really-a-joke here, I totally understand the impulse of not liking the snark monster you see in the mirror, so hope you find peace post-button.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:15 PM on April 30, 2014 [2 favorites]


(Sorry that ended up sounding so much like I was speaking at a wake.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:16 PM on April 30, 2014


some small part of me is now kind of terrified folks may think I'm the bouncer mod

Well, they certainly will now that you've said that. don't ban me
posted by contraption at 1:19 PM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]


Go buy yourself a nice new sweater at the mall. I think they're also on sale even.
posted by buzzman at 1:20 PM on April 30, 2014


Goodnewsfortheinsane - I don't think of you as the bouncer mod! I think of you as the gnifti mod.
posted by dotgirl at 1:21 PM on April 30, 2014 [10 favorites]


I think of you as the insane mod.
posted by Jahaza at 1:28 PM on April 30, 2014 [2 favorites]


Metafilter: I think of you as the insane
posted by cashman at 1:31 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


So, can we call you Ser Bounce?
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:52 PM on April 30, 2014 [26 favorites]


Yeah, this is a really nice goodbye. Thanks, and way to leave a good impression behind.
posted by ostro at 1:55 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


Even though I disagree with 90% of what you post on this site, I do at times appreciate that you prevent Metafilter from being a echo chamber by adding your contrarian perspectives.


Peace out Cub Scout.
posted by oceanjesse at 1:56 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


Now that's a classy goodbye. Take care out there in the real world. Wrap up warm.

Also Snark Inflation is totally the name of my new band.
posted by billiebee at 1:59 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


I was a Snark Inflation fan before they buttoned out to the man.
posted by cashman at 2:03 PM on April 30, 2014 [21 favorites]


Also Snark Inflation is totally the name of my new band.

What was the name of your old band, billibee?
posted by Melismata at 2:04 PM on April 30, 2014


My 6-year old nephew learned what a bouncer is just last night. During dinner the boy suggested that the next time he's in a skee-ball arcade he might engineer a high score by climbing up the alley and dunking the balls directly in the center hole. My brother predicted that such action would result in the bouncer tossing him out on his ear.

I hope you get a lot out of your break, three blind mice.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 2:09 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


Ice Cream Socialist: "My 6-year old nephew learned what a bouncer is just last night."

This is like the best opening line for a story ever.
posted by Big_B at 2:14 PM on April 30, 2014 [46 favorites]


I think of you as the "Good News" mod.
posted by double block and bleed at 2:15 PM on April 30, 2014


Did all his snarky stuff get deleted?
posted by telstar at 2:15 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


But is the snark inflation keeping in line with real term increases in favs or is it outstripping the general grar index?
posted by litleozy at 2:16 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


i know where he wents
posted by lalochezia at 2:18 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


Middle-class grar isn't keeping pace with the grar of the 1%.
posted by double block and bleed at 2:19 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


I think it beat the 5 year lipper averages though.


get it, lipper? I'll see myself out now.
posted by cashman at 2:21 PM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]


which is why we can expect a grarvolution soon, this snark inflation is just a warning sign for the impending moanapocalypse
posted by litleozy at 2:22 PM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]


What was the name of your old band, billibee?

The Vinegar Strokes. The Kickstarter campaign didn't go that well, then there was all the drinking, and of course the, uh, "incident".* Man, I miss those guys. This time it'll be different you just wait and see.


*They removed it successfully
posted by billiebee at 2:24 PM on April 30, 2014 [8 favorites]


much respect to the poster and this post, just the 'NO TAG' tag makes me think you were wearing dark glasses and walking out into a sea of photographers when you posted this
posted by litleozy at 2:30 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


Perhaps you could try to the "The Bouncier Mod," what with a peppy up-tempo theme music and wealth of sunny aphorisms.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:32 PM on April 30, 2014


All this civility breaking out is preventing me from getting up on my high horse.






Thank you!


Peace out dude.


PS: gnifti, all the mods are meanies. It isn't you. It just comes with the job. (Mic: Former mod. And not going back to being The Bad Guy who makes it possible for everyone else to have a nice-ish day.)

((HUGS)) if you want them.
posted by Michele in California at 2:47 PM on April 30, 2014


Ice Cream Socialist: "My 6-year old nephew learned what a bouncer is just last night."

This is like the best opening line for a story ever.


"Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendía was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover bouncers."
posted by Turkey Glue at 3:01 PM on April 30, 2014 [33 favorites]


I don't think little Aureliano has the right attitude for the military yet, but he'll probably change a lot over the next decade or ten.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2014


If you're the bouncer, then Jess is the Cooler and Cortex is the blind guy with the guitar ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


get it, lipper? I'll see myself out now.

No one should ever show themselves out for wordplay, especially wordplay with references I don't entirely get without Googling. That's like half the reason I'm here.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:56 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


I'll miss you while you're gone, threeblindmice. I hope it's not permanent.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:57 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


If we just went back to the Gold Standard we could get Snark Inflation under control
posted by hellojed at 4:19 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


If you're the bouncer, then Jess is the Cooler and Cortex is the blind guy with the guitar ?

Taz is the attractive yet aloof bartender.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:25 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


I can't say I haven't had my differences with three blind mice, but this is a far classier departure than many.

Why I go, I hope it's leaving with dignity rather than being carried out ranting, in a sack, by exasperated mods.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:31 PM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]


i took a month off from commenting recently and it did me a world of good. here's hoping you find the break refreshing.
posted by nadawi at 4:38 PM on April 30, 2014 [6 favorites]


I think after a certain point every account should automatically disable itself for a month. Maybe a giant floating head of mathowie can appear, wishing you a happy sabbatical. Come back a month later, refreshed and brimming with news and thoughts from the outside world. I highly recommend it.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:56 PM on April 30, 2014 [21 favorites]


I picture his giant head looking like and having the same powers as Evil Otto.
posted by item at 5:04 PM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]


I picture his giant head looking like and having the same powers as Evil Otto.

Fun fact about "Berzerk," at least the Atari 2600 version: Since your man has a space between his head and body, if you line it up *just* right you can have a laser go through the gap where your neck should be and survive.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:22 PM on April 30, 2014 [6 favorites]


All I have to say here is:

Class act, tbm.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:31 PM on April 30, 2014


Did you ever see such a sight in your life?
posted by unliteral at 7:17 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


When I go I want it to be like that scene in Oscar-winning movies where the protagonist is flailing madly trying to get into a place, and the police are holding him back in a duty-bound yet sympathetic manner as he struggles mightily against them, but such is his rage and grief that it takes twenty police to finally subdue him, and there's an epic string orchestra soundtrack, and then everything fades to black and we all wake up five years later in a dingy apartment on an overcast day with the holes in our hearts as yet unhealed.
posted by invitapriore at 7:45 PM on April 30, 2014 [11 favorites]


Taz is the attractive yet aloof bartender.

That would make taz Keith David.

Seems about right.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:08 PM on April 30, 2014


Classy way to take your leave, threeblindmice. I hope it's not permanent. All the best.
posted by arcticseal at 8:20 PM on April 30, 2014


That would make taz Keith David.

I have clearly seriously misremembered Roadhouse.

But does this mean that mathowie is the cowboy bar owner, or the grizzled veteran bouncer?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:31 PM on April 30, 2014


I'm pretty sure he's Ben Gazzara.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:25 PM on April 30, 2014


All this civility breaking out is preventing me from getting up on my high horse.

Oh man, my horse is sooo high right now.
posted by aubilenon at 10:09 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]


...so who is the bouncer mod?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:35 PM on April 30, 2014


So just to be clear, is it kosher to publicly put private mail/ messages on a meta talk post/ comment?

This isn't the first time I have seen others do it in the last few days, I'm just wondering if this is ok to do now.
posted by hal_c_on at 11:05 PM on April 30, 2014


No, it's not kosher to reproduce private mail here. Can you let us know the instances you are referring to?
posted by taz (staff) at 12:12 AM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


the post itself, i imagine.
posted by empath at 12:13 AM on May 1, 2014


The couple of phrases in quotes isn't tripping my "copied a private email" sensor, though it's not something we want to encourage. I thought hal_c_on was saying he's seen private email posted on the site recently, which I haven't noticed myself (though I've been off for a couple of days so could easily have missed something), and we'd typically delete, and/or leave a note, and/or speak to the person who posted it to explain the policy.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:28 AM on May 1, 2014


Whoa. Very well done three blind mice. Please do come back if you feel you're in a better place and start to miss us all.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:39 AM on May 1, 2014


Just so that it's clear to me:

Copying/pasting an entire email/memail is not cool, but paraphrasing and quoting it is ok.

Yes?
posted by hal_c_on at 12:46 AM on May 1, 2014


Nope. In this case it didn't feel like something we needed to delete.

There could be cases where we don't delete, but it doesn't indicate a policy change or open season for excerpts. If someone is discussing, say, arranging a mixtape swap for the site, and have used mefi mail to discuss with another organizer, and they say something like "User X suggested a 'Madmen-themed mixtape swap'," we'd probably leave it.

If someone has received a private mefi mail that upsets them, and posts excerpts on the site, it's going to be a problem. They should contact us. If someone quotes excerpts from mail that contain private information at all, that's obviously a problem. There are very many ways pasting from private email could be a problem, which is why we say not to reproduce private mail here. If anyone is disturbed by mefi mail they've received from other members, they should contact us.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:17 AM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


Metafilter needs more contrarians though preferably without the snark inflation.
I await your return tbm though I too get you confused with another three word user name.
posted by adamvasco at 2:56 AM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Too much snark inflation will doubtless bring on the Snarknado.
posted by chavenet at 3:37 AM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


Isn't the convention to close up these kind of metas once the person has actually closed their account? At this point three blind mice can't respond to any of the commentary.

Also, I am going to go on record as saying I despise these public flagellation. If you realize you've been an asshole and need to step away, then do so. I find these apologies unseemly. Maybe that's just me, but to me it's a poor use of a meta. There is nothing to be resolved.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:50 AM on May 1, 2014 [3 favorites]


I don't think apologies like this are unseemly at all. I think it's good that the community can see you recognize you've been kind of a douche are are taking steps to rectify it.

(Also, I don't see where any flagellating is happening; no one is berating tbm for anything. Does flagellating also mean "thanking"?)
posted by rtha at 5:58 AM on May 1, 2014 [11 favorites]


At this point three blind mice can't respond to any of the commentary.

... Which I will then follow with critical commentary.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:24 AM on May 1, 2014 [4 favorites]


All this civility breaking out is preventing me from getting up on my high horse.

Oh man, my horse is sooo high right now.


Have you ever really, y'know, looked at your hooves…

TBM, hope your break isn't permanent but either way good luck. I've enjoyed your presence here.
posted by TedW at 7:37 AM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


I kind of assumed that MeMail from a mod acting in their mod capacity isn't the same as a MeMail from another user and reproducing it elsewhere wouldn't carry the same problems with it (though content and context could make the difference).

In the past I've referenced correspondence about MetaFilter I've had with the mods on the site and it didn't seem to be a problem. I really hope someone isn't out there seething about it without letting me know, anyway.

I suppose that was through the contact form and through email mostly though.

While we're here, can I just express how great the mods are about availability and communication? A couple of times I've gotten an email from someone back in minutes! I'm so thankful for that. I think it goes a long way to making MeFi the community it is.
posted by ODiV at 8:06 AM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


I kind of assumed that MeMail from a mod acting in their mod capacity isn't the same as a MeMail from another user and reproducing it elsewhere wouldn't carry the same problems with it (though content and context could make the difference).

It's generally less likely to be an issue, and I think this is a case where that's more or less the case and so not really something we're worried about.

That said, it can be tricky if there's issues of context or some sort of conflict involved, so generally speaking we still very much prefer folks explicitly check with us first if it's a situation where there's any sort of doubt so that we don't end up in a weird "uh, that's not actually what was going on there" situation with something. So, as a general rule, asking first is the way to go even if it's quoting a mod about mod communication stuff just to avoid potential weirdness.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:13 AM on May 1, 2014


I find these apologies unseemly. Maybe that's just me, but to me it's a poor use of a meta. There is nothing to be resolved.

How is this not appropriate? It seemed like TBM needed to resolve something, and the reaction has been relatively positive. If you find it distasteful, why did you choose to participate?
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:32 AM on May 1, 2014 [5 favorites]


That said, it can be tricky if there's issues of context or some sort of conflict involved

Yeah, true. There are probably enough instances where it might not be appropriate especially when you take into account partial quotes and paraphrasing. I'm making a lot of assumptions for my assumption. I'll try to double check in future if I'm doing this.
posted by ODiV at 8:33 AM on May 1, 2014


If you realize you've been an asshole and need to step away, then do so. I find these apologies unseemly.

Agreed. It's weird to me too. A very self-aggrandizing way to proclaim humility and contrition. But I'm getting old and on some level I guess I don't connect to the "every emotion must be related online" mode of being.
posted by aught at 8:41 AM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


My personal issue with MetaTalk posts like this is that it doesn't feel to me like they would "scale". But I've come to realize it's my own issue and not actually a problem because not everyone uses MetaTalk like this, so why worry about it. Also, a post from one user can act as a proxy for others who are dealing with the same sort of thing, but maybe didn't want to post about it.
posted by ODiV at 8:46 AM on May 1, 2014


He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.
posted by moonmilk at 10:12 AM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


But I'm getting old and on some level I guess I don't connect to the "every emotion must be related online" mode of being

TBM is offering an apology to people he feels he's acted poorly to--that's not aimlessly "relating emotions." An apology is a specific social act with a clearly defined goal and this post has, equally clearly, achieved that goal.
posted by yoink at 10:25 AM on May 1, 2014 [13 favorites]


How many blind mice are left now?
posted by michaelh at 11:13 AM on May 1, 2014 [3 favorites]


Have you ever really, y'know, looked at your hooves…

No, I...I...haven't. I have been remiss...


Metafilter needs more contrarians though preferably without the snark inflation.

I will nicely suggest that perhaps tbm's snark inflation (which I did not witness) might be the result of personal frustration and feeling not very respected. Maybe it was not just him/her. Maybe it was a product of the environment. And maybe that's something MeFi could try to do better if folks really want to maintain an atmosphere of meaty discussion and not have it turn into an echo chamber/suffer horribly from "evaporative cooling."

Most groups don't deal very nicely with people who have a different take on things. If you are "popular" or part of the in crowd or whatever, it seems okay to say really assholish things to folks (and people will give you like 80 favs for it) but if you see things differently, you are expected to mind your manners to a degree that is kind of abusive. Like, oh, you had a typo -- hang him high, guys! That's all the evidence we need that this person is an IDIOT and an ASSHOLE who deserves to be lynched.
posted by Michele in California at 11:15 AM on May 1, 2014 [10 favorites]


Michele in California: "I will nicely suggest that perhaps tbm's snark inflation (which I did not witness) might be the result of personal frustration and feeling not very respected. "

tbm was not being treated unfairly, group-thought into submission, "lynched" or any other, similar adjective. He had a tendency to derail threads with conservative talking points that were easily debunked by facts. But by the time the latter happened the damage was often done.
posted by zarq at 11:56 AM on May 1, 2014 [21 favorites]


Sincerely, I don't mean to attack the guy when he's not here to defend himself. But casting him as some sort of victim of the Metafilter Moral Majority is just plain wrong.
posted by zarq at 11:59 AM on May 1, 2014 [12 favorites]


But casting him as some sort of victim of the Metafilter Moral Majority is just plain wrong.


Yeah, see, I didn't do that. Suggesting that most groups aren't terribly nice about folks with a "contrarian" view is not suggesting he was a victim. And responding like that is a great way to shut the conversation down rather than open the floor to thoughts on how to have more contrarian views without the snark inflation (which is the idea I was responding to).

I am not talking about people being intentionally abusive. And I am really regretting saying anything about it.
posted by Michele in California at 12:04 PM on May 1, 2014 [6 favorites]


Does flagellating also mean "thanking"?

No, it means literally or metaphorically beating someone with a whip. Most commonly it's a reference to the monastic practice of inflicting pain on oneself as disproportionate self-punishment.

Everybody needs hugs, and hugging oneself is usually unsatisfying. Hugs, tbm. Come back soon.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:20 PM on May 1, 2014


I will nicely suggest that perhaps tbm's snark inflation (which I did not witness) might be the result of personal frustration and feeling not very respected.

He's been doing this thing for years, where "this thing" is to drop one pretty inflammatory comment in a thread and never come back. An awful lot of the time, the comment is some sneering thing about how dumb socialism or community values are, which given that he lives in Sweden and enjoys the benefits of such, always struck me as particularly assholish.

No, it means literally or metaphorically beating someone with a whip. Most commonly it's a reference to the monastic practice of inflicting pain on oneself as disproportionate self-punishment.

Yeah, I know. tbm's only remark in this thread is the post, and I still don't see how apologizing in a perfectly nice and appropriate way counts as flagellating, so I asked. Snarkily.
posted by rtha at 12:26 PM on May 1, 2014 [12 favorites]


Hey tbm, I do not have any contact info for you, please stay in touch: thomas.topham@gmail.com
posted by Meatbomb at 12:43 PM on May 1, 2014


Suggesting that most groups aren't terribly nice about folks with a "contrarian" view is not suggesting he was a victim.

It's been my experience that "contrarian" views are usually met in the same spirit they're delivered. Which is perfectly fine, given that's the sort of reaction contrarians are looking for usually. If you're going to be a contrarian, then people are going to be contrary with you.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:45 PM on May 1, 2014 [7 favorites]


might be the result of personal frustration and feeling not very respected

given that he lives in Sweden

Perhaps one comes from the other. You need a thick hide, living as a stranger among a bunch of millions of self-good, dour Swedes. With the younger generation taking foothold, things are changing for the better, admitted, but still.
posted by Namlit at 12:49 PM on May 1, 2014


I find these apologies unseemly. Maybe that's just me, but to me it's a poor use of a meta.

I wouldn't go out this way myself, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else chooses to do so. If it's jake with the mods, it's jake with me.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:55 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


I didn't think he'd last long after Blasdelb's recent and eminently justified attack, which I'd guess was a significant piece of the background for gnifti's note.

MetaFilter has a crying need for voices in loyal opposition to our various consensuses, and 3bm could have been a valuable part in that if not for his glaring lack of absolutely necessary good faith.
posted by jamjam at 1:08 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


jamjam: "I didn't think he'd last long after Blasdelb's recent and eminently justified attack, which I'd guess was a significant piece of the background for gnifti's note."

I must have missed that. Do you have a link?
posted by double block and bleed at 1:37 PM on May 1, 2014


I must have missed that. Do you have a link?

I assumed jamjam was talking about this.
posted by lalex at 1:39 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Glad it's one of the cool kidz who said "douche." We'd have hundreds of angry comments if an uncool kid -- or, heaven forbid, a man -- used that word.
posted by ambient2 at 1:39 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Yeah, nobody has ever used the word "douche" in a comment here...


Come on, if you're going to be argumentative, don't be argumentative about something there is site functionality that will disprove your point.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:51 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


Whoa! Douchefilter!
posted by Mister_A at 2:12 PM on May 1, 2014


Douchecanoe shows up with some frequency too. I can't imagine the source is the cool kids, because the phrase is. just. so. nerdy

icanbarelystandit.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:24 PM on May 1, 2014


Remarkable. You don't usually see this kind of restraint from douchebags.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:27 PM on May 1, 2014


The Spruce Goose Juche Douche was my wrestler name.
posted by planetesimal at 2:46 PM on May 1, 2014


we've had the douche conversation before. a quick ctrl+f through the thread shows i favor it as a term, but will also accept exchanging it for "a terry richardson," as in, wow that creep is being a total terry richardson!
posted by nadawi at 3:02 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


or, heaven forbid, a man

Men use it all the time, so...yeah.
posted by rtha at 3:12 PM on May 1, 2014


I haven't been as active as I once was, so this use of 'button' as a verb is thrilling and new!

How do you keep your pants on?!
posted by maryr at 3:53 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


What are you douchebuttons even talking about.
posted by naju at 4:01 PM on May 1, 2014 [9 favorites]


what is this i cant even pants
posted by Wolfdog at 4:31 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Is panting aloud here?


or, er allowed even.
posted by Michele in California at 4:33 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Douchecanoe shows up with some frequency too. I can't imagine the source is the cool kids, because the phrase is. just. so. nerdy

I'll probably regret asking, but what's 'nerdy' about it?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:48 PM on May 1, 2014


Yeah, I know. tbm's only remark in this thread is the post, and I still don't see how apologizing in a perfectly nice and appropriate way counts as flagellating, so I asked. Snarkily.

Because, at the end of the day, it's still essentially a flame-out. It's coming before people and squirting out a tear or two and bowing out without any kind of active engagement. I don't see it as productive. I don't see it as helpful to the site. I find it disingenuous. I'd rather a person just correct his behavior or decide he's incapable of doing that and disengaging without the public self-shaming.

How is this not appropriate? It seemed like TBM needed to resolve something, and the reaction has been relatively positive. If you find it distasteful, why did you choose to participate?

I think I was pretty clear on my reasoning, but if you didn't understand you can reread the comment. It's a mod choice, but in the past the convention has been to close these threads up since there can be no engagement with the person closing their account.

By any standard the thread served its purpose. TBM apologized. What further purpose does the thread serve after that?
posted by cjorgensen at 5:00 PM on May 1, 2014 [4 favorites]


Well, since profiles (and thus contact details) are hidden when users button, it provides a place for other users to ask the OP to stay in touch.
posted by gingerest at 5:04 PM on May 1, 2014


Yeah, see, I didn't do that.

Why else did you use him as an example?

Can we as a community possibly be more tolerant of minority opinions? Sure. Preaching to the choir, here. But were HIS comments in need of greater tolerance from the community? I don't believe so, no.
posted by zarq at 5:13 PM on May 1, 2014 [5 favorites]


I will nicely suggest that perhaps tbm's snark inflation (which I did not witness) might be the result of personal frustration and feeling not very respected.

I disagree with this, quite vehemently, actually. It might possibly have been the case if TBM's comments weren't nearly always first in a thread, and subsequent disrespecting clearly a result thereof, and a perfectly understandable response to the contempt he seemed to hold his caricature of mefites in. In other words, his disrespect of metafilter came first.

I am on record here as saying that mefi can struggle with viewpoints outside the median. On the other hand, I at least semi frequently abandon the song sheet, and feel respected just fine.

That's the thing about respect, you gotta give to get it. Glad you're taking a break TBM, I think you needed it. Hopefully you can come back bringing the tone your interesting comments about living in Sweden have, rather than what you dipped in threads about climate change, Islam, the UN, feminism, international finance etc etc.
posted by smoke at 5:14 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


I really don't understand. But maybe that's because I haven't been paying attention. I'll miss you tbm, and best wishes to you.
posted by trip and a half at 5:25 PM on May 1, 2014


Well, since profiles (and thus contact details) are hidden when users button, it provides a place for other users to ask the OP to stay in touch.

Not the purpose of meta.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:57 PM on May 1, 2014


I'll probably regret asking, but what's 'nerdy' about it?

Probably nothing, but I'm a hipster and I think I'm supposed to be at war with nerds. I'm not very good at it, I'm afraid.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:09 PM on May 1, 2014


How is this not appropriate? It seemed like TBM needed to resolve something, and the reaction has been relatively positive. If you find it distasteful, why did you choose to participate?

I think I was pretty clear on my reasoning, but if you didn't understand you can reread the comment. It's a mod choice, but in the past the convention has been to close these threads up since there can be no engagement with the person closing their account.


You know, I've read your comment a couple of times now, and I still don't see anything in there that shows what the OP's post has to do with you, nor anything discussing why you choose to participate in "unseemly apologies" by anybody that isn't you.

But by all means, tell me to re-read your comment again, because that certainly helps the discussion.
posted by Celsius1414 at 6:30 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


Isn't the convention to close up these kind of metas once the person has actually closed their account? At this point three blind mice can't respond to any of the commentary.

And:

It's a mod choice, but in the past the convention has been to close these threads up since there can be no engagement with the person closing their account.

Would you rather I open a different meta? Are you seeing that as a derail? I honestly don't think I can make it clearer.

And the reason I participated in an unseemly apology is because I think it's a crap use of meta. You can disagree, but in my opinion both are on topic comments.

Traditionally, once the person is question goes, whether voluntary or not, the threads have been closed. I see no compelling reason why this one should be any different.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:41 PM on May 1, 2014


cjorgensen: "And the reason I participated in an unseemly apology is because I think it's a crap use of meta. You can disagree, but in my opinion both are on topic comments."

I think it's pretty evident that you're just tuned to a different emotional wavelength regarding this issue than the one that basically everybody else here is listening in on, which is fine, but it seems unseemly to keep pressing your point.
posted by invitapriore at 6:44 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


> TBM apologized. What further purpose does the thread serve after that?

Well, honestly, with a poster like tbm, the apology is kind of thing in itself. As has been mentioned this kind of thing doesn't scale, but thankfully there aren't many posters like tbm. I don't necessarily think apologies deserve much praise, but they're a good step and it makes me wish people well instead of letting their past comments sit there and fester in my brain.
posted by planetesimal at 6:47 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Probably nothing, but I'm a hipster and I think I'm supposed to be at war with nerds. I'm not very good at it, I'm afraid.

A Hipster vs. Nerds war would be entertaining.

The Nerd vanguard, blinking bleary in unrelenting light of the blazing daystar, fling crushed cans of various guarana drinks at the Hipsters. Crippled by carpel tunnel syndrome from countless hours of Counterstrike and Halo, their aim is poor and their ersatz artillery barrage goes largely astray.

Amidst the faint rain of stale Red Bull, the Hipsters, fearing for the integrity of their $400 small-run designer denim and vintage flannel, attempt a strategic retreat. However, in a blatantly transparent attempt to not seem too emotionally invested in the maneuver, none of their scattered ranks is willing to risk anything more than a studied casual saunter. Which is just as well, as their skinny jeans are too binding to allow anything so gauche as 'running', and their patent leather moccasins (handmade by the finest Etsy craftmen) lack traction on the treacherous battlefield bitumen. "WE'RE ONLY CONCEDING IRONICALLY", they shout back.

The 23rd 'Fixie' Mechanised Cavalry Division are momentarily distracted by a shop purveying artisanal marmalades, and are mercilessly dispatched by the Nerd's crack squad of Hunger Games and Tomb Raider cosplayers.

From a nearby hillock, a small group of aging Emos survey the carnage. They are simultaneously angry and sad at the same time. The Smiths' Best Of, blaring from their boombox, wafts over the battlefield.

"I liked... the Smiths... before they... were cool", groans a stricken Hipster, and breathes no more.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:48 PM on May 1, 2014 [16 favorites]


me: Well, since profiles (and thus contact details) are hidden when users button, it provides a place for other users to ask the OP to stay in touch.

cjorgenson: Not the purpose of meta.

Metafilter FAQ:
MetaTalk is the part of the site for talking about the site itself. People often use it for discussing policy and etiquette questions with the mods and other users, making feature requests, or asking questions about the site itself. Sometimes it's used for pointing out a notable media mention of MetaFilter or a MeFite, or announcing a site event like a contest. Other times it's just used for finding MeFites in other places such as online games or other activities.

(Emphasis mine.) Group organizing to stay in touch is well within the spirit of MeTa even if it's not a stated purpose.
posted by gingerest at 7:01 PM on May 1, 2014


I hope I never get bored/cranky/tired/bothered/whatever enough by MeFi to close my account (and have it become a Thing Discussed in MeTa), because I just know I wouldn't be able to ignore any subsequent conversation about my many and varied failings, and it would drive me totally batshit eyeball-bulging loco peering in through the (self-)locked screen door.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:04 PM on May 1, 2014 [11 favorites]


Probably nothing, but I'm a hipster and I think I'm supposed to be at war with nerds. I'm not very good at it, I'm afraid.

1. Hipsters deny being hipsters from the get-go. So you blew that.

2. You're too old. Me too. I feel your pain.

3. Nothing more depressing than a middle-aged hipster (see #2)

4. You care too much about other people. i've read your posts.

5. Maybe you are a hipster. Because honestly, I don't know what that is.
posted by valkane at 7:15 PM on May 1, 2014


5. Maybe you are a hipster. Because honestly, I don't know what that is.

Don't worry, no one else does either. It's a totally confected category.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:31 PM on May 1, 2014


Also, I am going to go on record as saying I despise these public flagellation. If you realize you've been an asshole and need to step away, then do so. I find these apologies unseemly. Maybe that's just me, but to me it's a poor use of a meta. There is nothing to be resolved.

Oh man. I understand that you might find them unseemly, but I sometimes wonder if genuine acts of humility and deference to the feelings of others is the only thing that keeps us going in our imperfect human condition. You absolutely need a reset button that allows for something of a clean slate at times, both psychologically and in our social interactions. You sometimes need to share this with other people, as it can be really important for people to know that you want a change of heart, as it changes the emotional texture of future interactions.

I will say, though, that I might understand where you are coming from. I am married to someone who, when things got tense in her family, people backed off, let things settle, and came back again, trusting that things were okay to go forward without saying a whole lot about it. I, on the other hand, if relationships seemed injured, you reached out again to check that things were okay, and to acknowledge that feelings were hurt, and if egregious, you'd try to do better next time. There is something of a familial social contract built on understanding what it means for everyone to be on good terms again, and I do wonder if those kinds of things effect how we approach expectations here, too. I used to despise her approach to things, as it seemed insensitive. I've learned to appreciate, however, that there can be an emotional franticness to feeling the need to apologize too often that isn't always healthy, and there's also comfort in knowing that you can blow it at times and simply come back to be in someone's good graces again, as a matter of course. I suspect there's a balance in there somewhere.

I am not psychoanalyzing your childhood.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:50 PM on May 1, 2014 [8 favorites]


It's a totally confected category.

Mmm. Confections.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:15 PM on May 1, 2014


Yes. Locally sourced, hand churned, retro popculture-themed, fair trade confections.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:06 PM on May 1, 2014 [2 favorites]


You see, that actually sounds like something I would eat, if it were gluten free.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:16 PM on May 1, 2014 [3 favorites]


Dude, it's the 21st century. The nerds are the hipsters. The hipsters are the nerds.
posted by maryr at 10:49 PM on May 1, 2014 [1 favorite]


Who eats you, if you're gluten free?
posted by Namlit at 1:15 AM on May 2, 2014


Dude, it's the 21st century. The nerds are the hipsters. The hipsters are the nerds.

GLORY BE! THE WAR IS OVER!

I mean, uh, it's OK, I guess. Whatever. I've been a fan of peace for, like, ever. Let's go watch the new Guardians of the Galaxy movie and eat gluten-free artisanal marmalade snacks. How's your Mass Effect costume coming along? And have you played Titanfall yet? Cool beard, tho. Very 'lumberjack meets Amish stylist'.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:49 AM on May 2, 2014 [3 favorites]


GLORY BE! THE WAR IS OVER!

That's all very well for you hipsters and nerds - but what about the wastoids, dweebies and - most relevantly - us dickheads?

Sure, we all think Ferris is a righteous dude, but that doesn't mean we can just put our ancient internecine conflict aside whenever you feel like it.

We dickheads may have dicks for heads, but inside those dick-heads are FEELINGS - dick-shaped feelings, which you people ignore at your peril.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:15 AM on May 2, 2014 [15 favorites]


> Traditionally, once the person is question goes, whether voluntary or not, the threads have been closed.

This is entirely in your head.
posted by languagehat at 5:34 AM on May 2, 2014


Also, I am going to go on record as saying I despise these public flagellation. If you realize you've been an asshole and need to step away, then do so.

You realize you're being an asshole, right?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:42 AM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


It's a totally confected category.

In conclusion, hipsters are a category of contrasts.

ts;nae*: In closing, hipsters, taken as a shifting landscape of subcultural tension and memetic evolution are an extremely heterogeneous class.

*too short; not academic enough
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on May 2, 2014


I think it's pretty evident that you're just tuned to a different emotional wavelength regarding this issue than the one that basically everybody else here is listening in on, which is fine, but it seems unseemly to keep pressing your point.

I didn't keep pressing it. I stated it. Someone said, I don't get it. So I reiterated it. Was told they still didn't get it. So I made one last attempt and said I don't know how to be any clearer. I thought it was fairly straight forward the first time around, but what are you going to do?

You're right. I am on a different wavelength. I'll bow out. Perhaps the difference here is people weren't being as negative as in times past. Usually it's a pile on about how disruptive an asshole the person was and how no one will miss them and the thread gets closed fairly quick, since the person is no longer around to participate.

(Emphasis mine.) Group organizing to stay in touch is well within the spirit of MeTa even if it's not a stated purpose.

What you quoted to is about posts for members to organize to get together on other sites. It's stretching that pretty far to pretend what's going on here fits that definition. Even if I concede that's in the spirit of this post, that's not what anyone has done. When have people ever "organized to stay in touch" with a member who closed an account?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:51 AM on May 2, 2014


Maryr: How do you keep your pants on?!

Truth be told, I depants at the slightest provocation.
posted by Mister_A at 7:08 AM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


That's all very well for you hipsters and nerds - but what about the wastoids, dweebies and - most relevantly - us dickheads?

Seems clear to me that we must begin by voting no. 1 for the quidnunc kid.
posted by mr. digits at 7:12 AM on May 2, 2014 [4 favorites]


There is no tag on this Meta.

To be more accurate, NO_TAG is the only tag on this Meta.

And there seem to have been no other instances of it.
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:20 AM on May 2, 2014 [2 favorites]


I remark on this pre-coffee, so I make no guarantees on the actual remarkableness of that.
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:21 AM on May 2, 2014


Just read it as Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade after he punches the Nazi out of the airship.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:36 AM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


Mister_A, you're supposed to wait until no pants o'clock.
posted by maryr at 8:52 AM on May 2, 2014


Obviously, gnfti is not the bouncer mod.


He's the Norm Peterson mod.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:13 AM on May 2, 2014


I just came back, but I do love how any thread about anything whatsoever can, given time, morph into being about "hipsters," and how "hipsters" can be defined as pretty much anyone at all the person wants to put down.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:47 AM on May 2, 2014 [2 favorites]


I haven't been around much, because holy hell life is short & crazy, and how do you keep up with all this as well as read all the comments down here, but I still check in often enough to feel a little pang when I notice a new black bar in my contacts list. I've taken a couple of Official Breaks, and it's always been the right thing to do - hope you make it back soon & that you get some relaxation.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:57 AM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


I kind of like that he apologized and left. When people just leave without saying goodbye, it does not give them closure and it does not give the community closure. I have seen a MeTa where someone asked about someone whose account was currently disabled. I knew from chat that he was just on break (of course, it would not have been appropriate for me to say that) but it put the mods in an awkward position -- they closed it to protect his privacy and I think they later deleted it. I have also seen it come up in conversation on MeTa that a long time member now has a disabled account. As I understand it, the mods cannot/will not disclose why that is and it leaves people at a loss.

Not saying it should become A Thing for everyone to say their goodbyes any time they take a break, but given that he was getting snarkier and has now expressed remorse and is (as a minimum) taking a break, I think it makes it much, much more likely that he might be able to return someday and have a more constructive relationship to the community. It isn't at all uncommon for a member to want to return to a community they once wanted to flounce out of (and I don't think tbm flounced out), so I really would not find it very surprising if he decides he misses the place and wishes to return. This MeTa makes it more likely he can do so without a Brand New Day. I think that's a good thing. Most communities do not have a good process for how to constructively handle such situations and are the worse for it.
posted by Michele in California at 12:01 PM on May 2, 2014 [7 favorites]


I do love how any thread about anything whatsoever can, given time, morph into being about "hipsters,"

As an online discussion continues, the probability of it becoming a referendum on hipsters approaches 1.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:09 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


Mangum's Law
posted by invitapriore at 12:15 PM on May 2, 2014


re: hipsters
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:21 PM on May 2, 2014


As an online discussion continues, the probability of it becoming a referendum on hipsters approaches 1.

So...hipsters are Nazis? ("I'm into an obscure Führer right now; you wouldn't have heard of him. BUT YOU WILL!")
posted by yoink at 12:24 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


Everything since The Beer Hall Putsch has sucked.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:29 PM on May 2, 2014


You call that beer?
posted by octobersurprise at 12:39 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


If it wasn't the Artisinal Microbrew Dive Bar Putsch, it wasn't worth getting involved.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:44 PM on May 2, 2014 [2 favorites]


I liked the Bürgerbräukeller before it merged with Löwenbräu.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:49 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


I'm in my early 40s. The whole hipster thing really makes me feel the generation gap. I always thought my dad was stupid for not getting things about my generation, but I dont understand the hipster thing at all. I'm really not sure if I've ever met one.

It's hell getting old, kids.
posted by double block and bleed at 1:17 PM on May 2, 2014 [4 favorites]


Seems clear to me that we must begin by voting no. 1 for the quidnunc kid.

Can someone explain this thing to me? What is the deal? Is the quidnunc kid ever going to get elected already?
posted by Hoopo at 1:33 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


Is the quidnunc kid ever going to get elected already?

Hey, just keep watching for the white smoke like the rest of us.
posted by yoink at 1:40 PM on May 2, 2014 [6 favorites]


Hey, just keep watching for the white smoke like the rest of us.

/snicker
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:56 PM on May 2, 2014


Metafilter: Snark inflation ... civilized flameouts.
posted by John Cohen at 3:59 PM on May 2, 2014


/snicker

THIS IS NOT HELPING AND I HATE EVERYONE
posted by Hoopo at 4:02 PM on May 2, 2014 [2 favorites]




THIS IS NOT HELPING AND I HATE EVERYONE

I'm telling you, it's time to go vote no. 1. That's the first step.
posted by mr. digits at 5:17 PM on May 2, 2014


But I don't even know where the polling station is
posted by Hoopo at 5:42 PM on May 2, 2014


It's deep, deep within your heart pants.
posted by h00py at 5:47 PM on May 2, 2014 [3 favorites]


Hoopo, do you have your Mefi Platinum voter's registration card? Your polling place should be listed on the back.
posted by misha at 7:12 PM on May 2, 2014


three blind mice, sorry to see you go...best wishes to you.
posted by HuronBob at 7:23 PM on May 2, 2014


If you're not registered by now then it may be too late for the early polls.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:38 PM on May 2, 2014 [1 favorite]


I may snub every petitioner I encounter (currently boycotting the California petition system as too screwed up to participate in), but I'm registered.

<subliminal>Vote #1 quidnunc kid! </subliminal>
posted by Lexica at 8:23 PM on May 2, 2014 [2 favorites]


I haven't been as active as I once was, so this use of 'button' as a verb is thrilling and new!

"When the boss says push the button on a guy - I push the button, see, Senator?"

-Willie Cicci (The Godfather)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:50 PM on May 3, 2014


"Hoopo, do you have your Mefi Platinum voter's registration card? Your polling place should be listed on the back."

"If you're not registered by now then it may be too late for the early polls."


REMEMBER: All MFPVRCs must now be officially verified by the The Moderators. Current cardholders must upgrade. Approval of your MFPVRC depends on the unanimous consent of The Moderators and two affidavits from current members about your upstanding moral character'.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:27 PM on May 3, 2014 [1 favorite]


Don't forget to change your password on odd-numbered days. Passwords must contain upper- and lower-case letters, at least two prime numbers alternating with special characters, and no more than two characters that have appeared in previous passwords.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:01 AM on May 4, 2014


Patsies and chumps vote #1. See you on the barricades.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:34 AM on May 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


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