[MeFi Site Update] May 15th May 15, 2024 11:48 AM Subscribe
Hi there, MetaFilter!
Welcome to this month’s Site Update! You can find the last one here.
I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!
Profit & Loss
– You can find this month's P&L report here. The previous P&L reports are here.
Admin/Moderation
– I’m still letting the idea of creating a space where trans members can provide feedback to the site’s staff simmer. For now, I have outlined a rough project plan. Please take a look and let me know if you have any questions. Once I have collected feedback from this site update, I’ll go ahead and post a Meta Thread to talk about this separately.
Tech
– Frimble started working towards adding the year of release to Fanfare front page posts . We'll confirm once this is ready.
– Kirk is still going over possible User Experience and accessibility improvements. More details to come.
– I’m compiling, auditing and updating all the subsites’ static copy. The idea is to make sure MeFi remains consistent in its voice and content.
– Fixes to background processes that weren’t running
– Site e-mail sending fixes
– Further fixes for IRL events
BIPOC Advisory Board
– Meeting Minutes #23, #24, and #25 are in the editing process. Thyme is trying to get caught up and pending minutes should be up to date by the end of the month.
If you have any questions or feedback not related to this particular update, please Contact Us instead. If you want to discuss a particular subject not covered here with the community, you’re welcome to open a separate MetaTalk thread for it.
Welcome to this month’s Site Update! You can find the last one here.
I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!
Profit & Loss
– You can find this month's P&L report here. The previous P&L reports are here.
Admin/Moderation
– I’m still letting the idea of creating a space where trans members can provide feedback to the site’s staff simmer. For now, I have outlined a rough project plan. Please take a look and let me know if you have any questions. Once I have collected feedback from this site update, I’ll go ahead and post a Meta Thread to talk about this separately.
Tech
– Frimble started working towards adding the year of release to Fanfare front page posts . We'll confirm once this is ready.
– Kirk is still going over possible User Experience and accessibility improvements. More details to come.
– I’m compiling, auditing and updating all the subsites’ static copy. The idea is to make sure MeFi remains consistent in its voice and content.
– Fixes to background processes that weren’t running
– Site e-mail sending fixes
– Further fixes for IRL events
BIPOC Advisory Board
– Meeting Minutes #23, #24, and #25 are in the editing process. Thyme is trying to get caught up and pending minutes should be up to date by the end of the month.
If you have any questions or feedback not related to this particular update, please Contact Us instead. If you want to discuss a particular subject not covered here with the community, you’re welcome to open a separate MetaTalk thread for it.
Did we lose money in April?
posted by twelve cent archie at 1:26 PM on May 15
posted by twelve cent archie at 1:26 PM on May 15
It seemed like mefi leadership was open to that idea when we discussed in the April thread so I'm curious where that has since landed.
Yes, the idea is to hold a one-time session to get feedback from trans mefites, how we proceed from there is not defined yet as that should come from the attendees and not from us.
Did we lose money in April?
Yes, we had to prepare and and pay taxes so our expenses exceeded our profits this month. That being said this is an annual expense that we have accounted for already.
posted by loup (staff) at 3:24 PM on May 15 [5 favorites]
Yes, the idea is to hold a one-time session to get feedback from trans mefites, how we proceed from there is not defined yet as that should come from the attendees and not from us.
Did we lose money in April?
Yes, we had to prepare and and pay taxes so our expenses exceeded our profits this month. That being said this is an annual expense that we have accounted for already.
posted by loup (staff) at 3:24 PM on May 15 [5 favorites]
Some of the monthly P&L statements say cash basis and some say accruals basis.
Not sure about corporate accounting in Mefi's jurisdiction, but in general accruals accounts allocate income and expenses over the whole period to which they relate.
posted by Klipspringer at 3:05 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
Not sure about corporate accounting in Mefi's jurisdiction, but in general accruals accounts allocate income and expenses over the whole period to which they relate.
posted by Klipspringer at 3:05 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
I’m compiling, auditing and updating all the subsites’ static copy. The idea is to make sure MeFi remains consistent in its voice and content.
Can I ask what's the rationale for making this a priority task? Has there been community demand for it? Or people saying inconsistent text is holding back site participation?
posted by Klipspringer at 3:31 AM on May 16 [18 favorites]
Can I ask what's the rationale for making this a priority task? Has there been community demand for it? Or people saying inconsistent text is holding back site participation?
posted by Klipspringer at 3:31 AM on May 16 [18 favorites]
loup: Yes, the idea is to hold a one-time session to get feedback from trans mefites, how we proceed from there is not defined yet as that should come from the attendees and not from us.
OK, thanks. In that case I am extremely confused, because the linked project plan describes a "board" with "regular listening sessions". Can you help me understand why there's such a wide gulf between what you have described in comments and what's shown in the plan?
posted by capricorn at 5:47 AM on May 16 [5 favorites]
OK, thanks. In that case I am extremely confused, because the linked project plan describes a "board" with "regular listening sessions". Can you help me understand why there's such a wide gulf between what you have described in comments and what's shown in the plan?
posted by capricorn at 5:47 AM on May 16 [5 favorites]
Just a mild note that a project like the copy updates could be a great volunteer project for the non-profit - it’s limited scope, can be done in any timezone, and has clear deliverables.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:13 AM on May 16 [21 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 8:13 AM on May 16 [21 favorites]
Can I ask what's the rationale for making this a priority task? Has there been community demand for it? Or people saying inconsistent text is holding back site participation?
Sure, let me give you some context:
Rather than a priority task, this is a project that can advance at a steady pace without being too time consuming. In the 4 years I have been here, we haven’t had anyone look at the site’s static content or created new content (with 5 specific exceptions: the Guidelines, Content Policy, Microaggressions, Privacy Policy, and About page).
Then, since Kirk and I have been looking at User Experience and accessibility we have stumbled upon several instances where the copy is either outdated or inconsistent across subsites, so that’s why we started compiling and auditing these.
Also, I think this is the right time to start working on it since we still have the help and contribution of people with deep site knowledge and history like Jessamyn and Taz. This ties into warriorqueen’s suggestion to make this a volunteer project, which is a great idea as well. For the time being, the plan is to keep compiling and categorizing them in a single document so anyone with the willingness to help can contribute.
OK, thanks. In that case I am extremely confused, because the linked project plan describes a "board" with "regular listening sessions". Can you help me understand why there's such a wide gulf between what you have described in comments and what's shown in the plan?
You’re right, sorry about that, the project plan was in its first version, I’ve made some changes now to better reflect the current scope. Feel free to provide more feedback if needed.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:23 AM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Sure, let me give you some context:
Rather than a priority task, this is a project that can advance at a steady pace without being too time consuming. In the 4 years I have been here, we haven’t had anyone look at the site’s static content or created new content (with 5 specific exceptions: the Guidelines, Content Policy, Microaggressions, Privacy Policy, and About page).
Then, since Kirk and I have been looking at User Experience and accessibility we have stumbled upon several instances where the copy is either outdated or inconsistent across subsites, so that’s why we started compiling and auditing these.
Also, I think this is the right time to start working on it since we still have the help and contribution of people with deep site knowledge and history like Jessamyn and Taz. This ties into warriorqueen’s suggestion to make this a volunteer project, which is a great idea as well. For the time being, the plan is to keep compiling and categorizing them in a single document so anyone with the willingness to help can contribute.
OK, thanks. In that case I am extremely confused, because the linked project plan describes a "board" with "regular listening sessions". Can you help me understand why there's such a wide gulf between what you have described in comments and what's shown in the plan?
You’re right, sorry about that, the project plan was in its first version, I’ve made some changes now to better reflect the current scope. Feel free to provide more feedback if needed.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:23 AM on May 16 [3 favorites]
Some of the monthly P&L statements say cash basis and some say accruals basis.
Accrual is used when a business has a long lead time between incurring costs and recognizing income, so they can account for the work in progress as an asset. (Or if they invoice significantly ahead of costs.) A contractor is a good example. I don't see any reason for MetaFilter to be on an accrual basis. That said, I don't see cash or accrual on any of the sheets this year. Whatever the issue, it seems to have been corrected.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:38 PM on May 16
Accrual is used when a business has a long lead time between incurring costs and recognizing income, so they can account for the work in progress as an asset. (Or if they invoice significantly ahead of costs.) A contractor is a good example. I don't see any reason for MetaFilter to be on an accrual basis. That said, I don't see cash or accrual on any of the sheets this year. Whatever the issue, it seems to have been corrected.
posted by hypnogogue at 12:38 PM on May 16
You missed the footers. On the PDFs in the linked Drive folder. Some say cash, some say accruals.
posted by Klipspringer at 1:18 PM on May 16
posted by Klipspringer at 1:18 PM on May 16
since Kirk and I have been looking at User Experience and accessibility we have stumbled upon several instances where the copy is either outdated or inconsistent across subsites, so that’s why we started compiling and auditing these.
Be that as it may, the main problems facing Metafilter are that its existing membership is in decline and the inability to attract new members (and the fact that internet advertising is no longer terribly profitable, but Metafilter has little control over that). Spending paid time on inconsistent copy across subsites is basically polishing the railing on the Titanic as it sinks.
It's not inconsistent copy driving people away, it's the culture and antiquated UI.
posted by Candleman at 11:02 PM on May 16 [25 favorites]
Be that as it may, the main problems facing Metafilter are that its existing membership is in decline and the inability to attract new members (and the fact that internet advertising is no longer terribly profitable, but Metafilter has little control over that). Spending paid time on inconsistent copy across subsites is basically polishing the railing on the Titanic as it sinks.
It's not inconsistent copy driving people away, it's the culture and antiquated UI.
posted by Candleman at 11:02 PM on May 16 [25 favorites]
Or to frame it another way, who is responsible for/accountable to spending scarce dollars on rewording stuff that basically no one actually reads vs., say, responding to complaints from the dwindeling active users? Unless you have data that shows that the inconsistent copy issue is driving people away, you're just burning money (except it goes to you, so there's a conflict of interest there).
posted by Candleman at 7:07 AM on May 17 [10 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 7:07 AM on May 17 [10 favorites]
I think that’s getting a little into the weeds, Candleman…
posted by sixswitch at 8:08 AM on May 17 [3 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 8:08 AM on May 17 [3 favorites]
yeah, we'd have to create a committee to look into that
posted by bowmaniac at 8:33 AM on May 17 [9 favorites]
posted by bowmaniac at 8:33 AM on May 17 [9 favorites]
I hear what you are saying but, I don't get what one thing has to do with the other. UI/UX is one of our biggest priorities already. That's why we prioritized hiring a new tech resource and have been working on User Experience and accessibility.
Maintaining static copy, on the other hand, is a small (albeit not fast) project that will not affect our spending in the slightest, most of this gets done within shifts that are already scheduled. This is not time consuming, has a limited scope, and can advance at any pace.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:31 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Maintaining static copy, on the other hand, is a small (albeit not fast) project that will not affect our spending in the slightest, most of this gets done within shifts that are already scheduled. This is not time consuming, has a limited scope, and can advance at any pace.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:31 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Cash basis vs. accrual basis in financial reporting has to do with the reported dates of revenue and expenses. Cash basis means you show the revenue/expense on the date when money changes hands; accrual basis means you show the revenue/expense on the date when it's earned/billed. Easiest example might be if you pay two months' of your electric bill on the same day: cash basis shows no electric expense in the first month, and double the electric expense in the second month, whereas accrual basis would show the expenses in the months when the bills are dated.
posted by the ghost of shakespeherian at 9:48 AM on May 17
posted by the ghost of shakespeherian at 9:48 AM on May 17
I don't get what one thing has to do with the other. UI/UX is one of our biggest priorities already. That's why we prioritized hiring a new tech resource and have been working on User Experience and accessibility.
Maintaining static copy, on the other hand, is a small (albeit not fast) project that will not affect our spending in the slightest, most of this gets done within shifts that are already scheduled. This is not time consuming, has a limited scope, and can advance at any pace.
You were asked a question on May 11th. We were told you were not on duty until Monday (May 13th), implying you would answer then.
Monday came and went with no answer.
Tuesday came and went with no answer.
Wednesday came and went with no answer.
Finally on Thursday there was an answer.
Respectfully, this is not the first time something like this has happened. You can perhaps forgive people for wondering what it is you're doing and why you're spending your time within shifts that are already scheduled maintaining static copy rather than interacting with the community and replying to their feedback and questions.
Speaking of = "I will be the only mod actively monitoring this thread so please be patient. I’ll reply to your feedback and questions at least twice a week. I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!" has been replaced with "I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!"
Just to set expectations - is it no longer safe to assume you will be replying to feedback at least twice a week?
posted by bowmaniac at 10:13 AM on May 17 [13 favorites]
Maintaining static copy, on the other hand, is a small (albeit not fast) project that will not affect our spending in the slightest, most of this gets done within shifts that are already scheduled. This is not time consuming, has a limited scope, and can advance at any pace.
You were asked a question on May 11th. We were told you were not on duty until Monday (May 13th), implying you would answer then.
Monday came and went with no answer.
Tuesday came and went with no answer.
Wednesday came and went with no answer.
Finally on Thursday there was an answer.
Respectfully, this is not the first time something like this has happened. You can perhaps forgive people for wondering what it is you're doing and why you're spending your time within shifts that are already scheduled maintaining static copy rather than interacting with the community and replying to their feedback and questions.
Speaking of = "I will be the only mod actively monitoring this thread so please be patient. I’ll reply to your feedback and questions at least twice a week. I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!" has been replaced with "I’m looking forward to your feedback and questions!"
Just to set expectations - is it no longer safe to assume you will be replying to feedback at least twice a week?
posted by bowmaniac at 10:13 AM on May 17 [13 favorites]
Thanks for all you do, mods! There is definitely some old copy floating around here that dates this site.
The profile prompt of "tell everyone when you first started using the internet" has gone from a nice icebreaker to something equivalent to "tell us about the first time you turned on a light bulb."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on May 17 [13 favorites]
The profile prompt of "tell everyone when you first started using the internet" has gone from a nice icebreaker to something equivalent to "tell us about the first time you turned on a light bulb."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on May 17 [13 favorites]
You can perhaps forgive people for wondering what it is you're doing and why you're spending your time within shifts that are already scheduled maintaining static copy rather than interacting with the community and replying to their feedback and questions.
I mean, I'm kind of at a loss for why you are acting like those are loup's only two job duties? Or why you think you have any idea how much time that particular item is taking up vs say, researching and working on accountability issues, or fixing background processes that aren't running, or any of the other stuff listed. I don't know if you've ever had a job that is both public and private facing, but in my experience it's really easy for other people to assume that the part of the job they see is the most important and biggest aspect of your job because it's the only thing they see you do.
I get that there's traditionally been super responsive mods, but that was 1-2 owners ago, with a different finical reality, and not in the middle of a giant restructuring/updating of the site. Quite frankly, I don't think either of us has nearly enough information to know if loup is using their time wisely or not. Personally, I don't think taking 4 days to answer as low stake as that one is unreasonable, especially compared to fixing accessibility issues. I get you're upset about a pattern and not just this instance, but like, man does this look different from an outside point of view than it looks to you.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:57 AM on May 17 [24 favorites]
I mean, I'm kind of at a loss for why you are acting like those are loup's only two job duties? Or why you think you have any idea how much time that particular item is taking up vs say, researching and working on accountability issues, or fixing background processes that aren't running, or any of the other stuff listed. I don't know if you've ever had a job that is both public and private facing, but in my experience it's really easy for other people to assume that the part of the job they see is the most important and biggest aspect of your job because it's the only thing they see you do.
I get that there's traditionally been super responsive mods, but that was 1-2 owners ago, with a different finical reality, and not in the middle of a giant restructuring/updating of the site. Quite frankly, I don't think either of us has nearly enough information to know if loup is using their time wisely or not. Personally, I don't think taking 4 days to answer as low stake as that one is unreasonable, especially compared to fixing accessibility issues. I get you're upset about a pattern and not just this instance, but like, man does this look different from an outside point of view than it looks to you.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:57 AM on May 17 [24 favorites]
@Klipspringer and anyone else interested in the basis of the P&Ls (i.e. accrual vs cash): Thank you! I have updated all the P&Ls in the folder to cash so that they are all consistent. Thank you for pointing that out.
@bowmaniac, I'll keep my thoughts about that thread in that thread as the conversation is still ongoing there. Now, to answer your question, I removed that paragraph because I'm not always the only one actively monitoring these threads, but the responsibility is still just mine. Also, the "at least twice a week" expectation set remains, if it ever changes that will be communicated explicitly, it just didn't make sense to me to mention it again since my responses in the past get site updates this year have been more frequent than that.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:48 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
@bowmaniac, I'll keep my thoughts about that thread in that thread as the conversation is still ongoing there. Now, to answer your question, I removed that paragraph because I'm not always the only one actively monitoring these threads, but the responsibility is still just mine. Also, the "at least twice a week" expectation set remains, if it ever changes that will be communicated explicitly, it just didn't make sense to me to mention it again since my responses in the past get site updates this year have been more frequent than that.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:48 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Yeah, things have been far more responsive lately.
posted by bowbeacon at 12:07 PM on May 17 [2 favorites]
posted by bowbeacon at 12:07 PM on May 17 [2 favorites]
(This is the exact disrespect that I was talking about. Do you not hear yourself?)
posted by bowbeacon at 12:10 PM on May 17 [3 favorites]
posted by bowbeacon at 12:10 PM on May 17 [3 favorites]
What thread are you talking about? This is so opaque.
bowmaniac, I'll keep my thoughts about that thread in that thread as the conversation is still ongoing there
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:35 PM on May 17 [5 favorites]
bowmaniac, I'll keep my thoughts about that thread in that thread as the conversation is still ongoing there
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:35 PM on May 17 [5 favorites]
Umm...I have a question: Have we done any outreach to journalists who cover tech/the internet/internet culture about the impending 25th anniversary? A guy by the last name Salkin wrote about Mefi in the NY Times a long time ago, I googled him and he seems to be...cranky now. Nevertheless, the 25th is a great story and even better opportunity to get eyeballs, and perhaps a bunch of new members, on the site. Have we reached out to anyone, and if not, does anyone know anyone who might want to cover the story? It may not be too late.
posted by vrakatar at 7:50 PM on May 17 [12 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:50 PM on May 17 [12 favorites]
i don’t think there’s a story here. what would it be? “it’s 25 years old, full of infighting, steadily losing members, and has the same interface as it did in 1999”?
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 9:40 AM on May 18 [9 favorites]
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 9:40 AM on May 18 [9 favorites]
"It's 25 years old, and despite some infighting, losing members, and the same old interface as 1999, MetaFilter soldiers on as an internet community, a community as the internet was first envisioned. When the rest of the internet has been reduced to how much advertising can we sell, MetaFilter is mostly a community of volunteers. A community of people working together, who do not always agree, to create a space where people can be heard."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:28 AM on May 18 [34 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:28 AM on May 18 [34 favorites]
Pendant alert:
...so our expenses exceeded our profits this month.
Our expenses exceeded our revenues this month. There were no profits. Profits result from revenue exceeding expenses. When expenses exceed revenues, there are losses.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:33 AM on May 18 [9 favorites]
...so our expenses exceeded our profits this month.
Our expenses exceeded our revenues this month. There were no profits. Profits result from revenue exceeding expenses. When expenses exceed revenues, there are losses.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:33 AM on May 18 [9 favorites]
Metafilter at 25: Still not customers, still not the product being sold. And blue_beetle is still posting!
posted by gwint at 11:50 AM on May 18 [6 favorites]
posted by gwint at 11:50 AM on May 18 [6 favorites]
Seriously, is interrogating loup about their time-on-tasks really within the scope of this site update thread? I understand people have built-up frustration but this seems like an attempt to micromanage from waaaay outside the box.
posted by sixswitch at 1:15 PM on May 18 [20 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 1:15 PM on May 18 [20 favorites]
I only noticed this because I have the Mefi Navigator script running (which links each comment to that user's prior and later comments in a thread), but are bowbeacon and bowmaniac not the same person? (It sure looked like one was picking up the conversation where the other left off, but maybe that's just because at first glance it might appear they have the same name.)
posted by nobody at 6:31 PM on May 18 [1 favorite]
posted by nobody at 6:31 PM on May 18 [1 favorite]
full of infighting
I kind of question (but possibly incorrectly, I can admit) each of your assumptions and insinuations, but sticking just to this one: outside of certain politics threads and certain metatalk threads, each of which only draw some self-selecting percentage of regular visitors, is the overall vibe here really that fighty?
posted by nobody at 6:36 PM on May 18
I kind of question (but possibly incorrectly, I can admit) each of your assumptions and insinuations, but sticking just to this one: outside of certain politics threads and certain metatalk threads, each of which only draw some self-selecting percentage of regular visitors, is the overall vibe here really that fighty?
posted by nobody at 6:36 PM on May 18
We are not. Never met the dude.
posted by bowbeacon at 6:48 PM on May 18 [3 favorites]
posted by bowbeacon at 6:48 PM on May 18 [3 favorites]
i don’t think there’s a story here
Metafilter at 25: A place made of stories.
posted by vrakatar at 11:18 PM on May 18 [2 favorites]
Metafilter at 25: A place made of stories.
posted by vrakatar at 11:18 PM on May 18 [2 favorites]
Never met the dude
You guys should meet! You're both in Boston and share some of the same interests. Although he was only active in this thread saying smilar things while you were on a timeout and is gone now that you are back. So maybe you just missed him
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on May 19 [3 favorites]
You guys should meet! You're both in Boston and share some of the same interests. Although he was only active in this thread saying smilar things while you were on a timeout and is gone now that you are back. So maybe you just missed him
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on May 19 [3 favorites]
Why don't you go ahead and just come out and say it. No need to be coy.
posted by bowmaniac at 7:51 AM on May 19 [1 favorite]
posted by bowmaniac at 7:51 AM on May 19 [1 favorite]
No idea what you mean. We're just two (or three, actually) genuine people expressing our genuine opinions.
Ooh, you should see if he's in some of the same Reddit groups, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:03 AM on May 19
Ooh, you should see if he's in some of the same Reddit groups, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:03 AM on May 19
Hey, just dropping in for a sec because we're a bit shorthanded on weekend staffing, but glancing at the admin side ... it really does not look to me like there's a connection with these two accounts. At any rate, let's please drop that speculation for now, and if we learn differently, we'll let you know.
posted by taz (staff) at 8:42 AM on May 19 [9 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 8:42 AM on May 19 [9 favorites]
"is the overall vibe here really that fighty?"
The very section of the site you're posting in seems devoted to it (albeit not necessarily intentionally).
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:45 AM on May 19 [1 favorite]
The very section of the site you're posting in seems devoted to it (albeit not necessarily intentionally).
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:45 AM on May 19 [1 favorite]
oh, you got me. I have a reddit account. Looks like my last post was 2 years ago about Critical Role. Very nefarious.
I also have a mefightclub account. No need to play creepy internet stalker there though, my last post was in 2015 about a computer I was thinking about buying to play games on.
You're right though. Everything's fine. Nonresponsiveness totally hasn't been an issue for years. We should definitely not have any questions on what is actually going on around here. All is well.
posted by bowmaniac at 8:51 AM on May 19 [6 favorites]
I also have a mefightclub account. No need to play creepy internet stalker there though, my last post was in 2015 about a computer I was thinking about buying to play games on.
You're right though. Everything's fine. Nonresponsiveness totally hasn't been an issue for years. We should definitely not have any questions on what is actually going on around here. All is well.
posted by bowmaniac at 8:51 AM on May 19 [6 favorites]
Don't make me get Kendrick Lamar in here. (Please stop now, thanks.)
posted by taz (staff) at 8:55 AM on May 19 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 8:55 AM on May 19 [3 favorites]
“ It's 25 years old, and despite some infighting, losing members, and the same old interface as 1999, MetaFilter soldiers on as an internet community, a community as the internet was first envisioned. When the rest of the internet has been reduced to how much advertising can we sell, MetaFilter is mostly a community of volunteers. A community of people working together, who do not always agree, to create a space where people can be heard."
that people aren’t joining and has perilous finances and has had two owners collapse with exhaustion from it. i get that we care about it and it is important to us. but i really, truly don’t think it makes a compelling story for anyone else.
people bring their fights from here into other threads and a fair amount of shit is thrown around on the blue. again, it matters to us, great. but i don’t think it’s a model for much else.
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 10:54 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]
that people aren’t joining and has perilous finances and has had two owners collapse with exhaustion from it. i get that we care about it and it is important to us. but i really, truly don’t think it makes a compelling story for anyone else.
people bring their fights from here into other threads and a fair amount of shit is thrown around on the blue. again, it matters to us, great. but i don’t think it’s a model for much else.
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 10:54 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]
I think the fact that Metafilter has lasted this long when pretty much nothing else has is indeed noteworthy.
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:22 PM on May 20 [9 favorites]
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:22 PM on May 20 [9 favorites]
I think the fact that Metafilter has lasted this long when pretty much nothing else has is indeed noteworthy
I can only think of one other place
OCT. 12TH, 25th Anniversary Fark Party (Lexington KY)
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:11 PM on May 20 [2 favorites]
I can only think of one other place
OCT. 12TH, 25th Anniversary Fark Party (Lexington KY)
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:11 PM on May 20 [2 favorites]
"I think the fact that Metafilter has lasted this long when pretty much nothing else has is indeed noteworthy."
I doubt that metafilter is anywhere near as special is people here seem to think. I frequent two music equipment-themed community blogs. One has been around since before metafilter and the other has been around even longer and includes a community (although not the content) that had been hosted on AOL since the early 90s.
Both are free for anyone to use, although the first gives you some special privileges if you pay an annual fee. The second takes donations. Both have a little advertising, but it's all related to the content of the site, and I rarely notice it. The first almost certainly has more members than Metafilter and generates far more content daily. The second probably has fewer active members but still generates a fair amount of posts and comments daily. Neither of them are super high tech in terms of interface or user experience, but they both run on commercially-available software and have modern features like the ability to hide users. Both have also changed platforms several times and have been able to keep old content. Both are modded by volunteers, and I would have to search hard for any comments by the mods. Granted, these sites are fairly specific in scope, so there's really nothing controversial that comes up that causes much argument; but if I can think of two sites off the tops of my head that have been serving a similar function as metafilter for even longer (at a much lower cost for those who run the site), then there have to be dozens (and probably hundreds) more.
posted by jonathanhughes at 5:20 PM on May 20 [6 favorites]
I doubt that metafilter is anywhere near as special is people here seem to think. I frequent two music equipment-themed community blogs. One has been around since before metafilter and the other has been around even longer and includes a community (although not the content) that had been hosted on AOL since the early 90s.
Both are free for anyone to use, although the first gives you some special privileges if you pay an annual fee. The second takes donations. Both have a little advertising, but it's all related to the content of the site, and I rarely notice it. The first almost certainly has more members than Metafilter and generates far more content daily. The second probably has fewer active members but still generates a fair amount of posts and comments daily. Neither of them are super high tech in terms of interface or user experience, but they both run on commercially-available software and have modern features like the ability to hide users. Both have also changed platforms several times and have been able to keep old content. Both are modded by volunteers, and I would have to search hard for any comments by the mods. Granted, these sites are fairly specific in scope, so there's really nothing controversial that comes up that causes much argument; but if I can think of two sites off the tops of my head that have been serving a similar function as metafilter for even longer (at a much lower cost for those who run the site), then there have to be dozens (and probably hundreds) more.
posted by jonathanhughes at 5:20 PM on May 20 [6 favorites]
Those sound very cool and I would also read a new story about them.
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:46 PM on May 20 [8 favorites]
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:46 PM on May 20 [8 favorites]
Everything2 is still around, and I heard something about The WELL getting on Mastodon recently. h2g2 seems to still be around also. An FPP on various old-web communities that are still active would be an interesting read if someone feels like making one. I'd think a journalist could make some good hay out of it, too, not just MeFi but all of these dinosaurs still preening their feathers after the social media asteroid came.
Man I think I had an e2 account back when I was a teenager...
posted by biogeo at 6:28 PM on May 20 [11 favorites]
Man I think I had an e2 account back when I was a teenager...
posted by biogeo at 6:28 PM on May 20 [11 favorites]
oh god I found it oh cringe
posted by biogeo at 6:33 PM on May 20 [11 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 6:33 PM on May 20 [11 favorites]
I think the notable thing is that metafilter has avoided the enshittification that has poisoned so much of the rest of the internet. It’d be interesting to see if there were commonalities between all the sites that have perservered in their original direction.
I’m guessing all the remaining unenshittified sites are small and heavily skewed towards loud argumentative smart people. But that would be theorizing in advance of the data, and that’s just Not Done.
posted by Vatnesine at 7:30 PM on May 20 [7 favorites]
I’m guessing all the remaining unenshittified sites are small and heavily skewed towards loud argumentative smart people. But that would be theorizing in advance of the data, and that’s just Not Done.
posted by Vatnesine at 7:30 PM on May 20 [7 favorites]
The reality of media resources today is probably that we’d need someone to write a really solid pitch, with key stats, interview contact(s) and an engaging hook, then send it out and follow up. Longevity is rarely a hook.
I’m not rich on time, esp. as I don’t have a list of tech/culture writers built up, and I struggled with finding a book during my walk this am (but my brain is on time-deprived speed.) So tossing this out there if anyone wants to run with it.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:42 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
I’m not rich on time, esp. as I don’t have a list of tech/culture writers built up, and I struggled with finding a book during my walk this am (but my brain is on time-deprived speed.) So tossing this out there if anyone wants to run with it.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:42 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
The story is that a long-time community is moving from a series of single-person owners to becoming a community-run nonprofit.
posted by terrapin at 1:00 PM on May 21 [6 favorites]
posted by terrapin at 1:00 PM on May 21 [6 favorites]
What thread are you talking about? This is so opaque.
Ooops, I was referring to this thread.
Umm...I have a question: Have we done any outreach to journalists who cover tech/the internet/internet culture about the impending 25th anniversary?
I discussed this, briefly and informally, with friends who are more knowledgeable than I am. They echoed warriorqueen’s opinion that we need to have a strong pitch. This, the UX improvements we are working on and this year's fundraising, are things that will likely happen around the same time, so I'm hoping to discuss them separately soon as we have more clarity about the timing for them.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:56 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]
Ooops, I was referring to this thread.
Umm...I have a question: Have we done any outreach to journalists who cover tech/the internet/internet culture about the impending 25th anniversary?
I discussed this, briefly and informally, with friends who are more knowledgeable than I am. They echoed warriorqueen’s opinion that we need to have a strong pitch. This, the UX improvements we are working on and this year's fundraising, are things that will likely happen around the same time, so I'm hoping to discuss them separately soon as we have more clarity about the timing for them.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:56 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]
The story is that a long-time community is moving from a series of single-person owners to becoming a community-run nonprofit.
This happens all the time and lands in the same editorial category as Alex’s Lemonade Stand, which is a much easier sell with good pictures. Like, not to be harsh about it but that’s not a story, or at least, not without a hook which might not be how to best present MF. If people want to go for it just be aware that’s a really uphill story.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:57 PM on May 21 [3 favorites]
This happens all the time and lands in the same editorial category as Alex’s Lemonade Stand, which is a much easier sell with good pictures. Like, not to be harsh about it but that’s not a story, or at least, not without a hook which might not be how to best present MF. If people want to go for it just be aware that’s a really uphill story.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:57 PM on May 21 [3 favorites]
As far as the potential for anyone volunteering for PR, if anyone is interested, that might best be coordinated with the interim board. Volunteering for the LLC is still not kosher, and part of why the board is working to set up the nonprofit.
posted by NotLost at 9:38 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 9:38 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
loup: You’re right, sorry about that, the project plan was in its first version, I’ve made some changes now to better reflect the current scope. Feel free to provide more feedback if needed.
loup, thank you for responding and updating the project plan! I looked at it again and frankly it still reads like the goal is to recruit a board with defined membership. If that continues to be the model I am not interested in participating.
posted by capricorn at 11:44 AM on May 23 [1 favorite]
loup, thank you for responding and updating the project plan! I looked at it again and frankly it still reads like the goal is to recruit a board with defined membership. If that continues to be the model I am not interested in participating.
posted by capricorn at 11:44 AM on May 23 [1 favorite]
Coming back to this a day later I didn't just want to drop a bunch of grumpy complaints in this thread without proposing an alternative, so here's what I'm actually recommending we do.
1. Crowdsource 3-5 questions, via MetaTalk, for a short survey of trans and nonbinary members. The goal would ultimately be to get feedback on what trans and nonbinary members like and don't like about the site, and feasible recommendations for things MetaFilter can do differently (or continue doing!) to make the experience for trans and nonbinary people here better. Ideally, mods could provide some info beforehand on what level of time and resources they are willing to commit; I realize there's like 3 of you and a shoestring budget and so it would be good to head off "hire 5 more mods and they're all trans" at the pass.
2. Open up a survey with the crowdsourced 3-5 questions and keep it open for 2-3 weeks.
3. Have someone (I'd be happy to do this!) go through the responses and write up an (anonymous and aggregated) list of recommendations.
4. Have either the mod team and/or the transition teams respond to each recommendation and label it as "yes we will do this and here's the timeline and who's responsible for doing it" or "no we aren't going to do this and here's why".
posted by capricorn at 11:09 AM on May 24 [10 favorites]
1. Crowdsource 3-5 questions, via MetaTalk, for a short survey of trans and nonbinary members. The goal would ultimately be to get feedback on what trans and nonbinary members like and don't like about the site, and feasible recommendations for things MetaFilter can do differently (or continue doing!) to make the experience for trans and nonbinary people here better. Ideally, mods could provide some info beforehand on what level of time and resources they are willing to commit; I realize there's like 3 of you and a shoestring budget and so it would be good to head off "hire 5 more mods and they're all trans" at the pass.
2. Open up a survey with the crowdsourced 3-5 questions and keep it open for 2-3 weeks.
3. Have someone (I'd be happy to do this!) go through the responses and write up an (anonymous and aggregated) list of recommendations.
4. Have either the mod team and/or the transition teams respond to each recommendation and label it as "yes we will do this and here's the timeline and who's responsible for doing it" or "no we aren't going to do this and here's why".
posted by capricorn at 11:09 AM on May 24 [10 favorites]
I would like to push back hard on this site being nothing special. It is to many of us!
Regarding the 25th birthday, maybe adding that MetaFilter made at least some splash back in the day on best of the web lists might help make it slightly more interesting.
posted by blue shadows at 6:36 PM on May 24 [3 favorites]
Regarding the 25th birthday, maybe adding that MetaFilter made at least some splash back in the day on best of the web lists might help make it slightly more interesting.
posted by blue shadows at 6:36 PM on May 24 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: In the news.
Someone at Slate loves us. Is Slate still a thing?
posted by vrakatar at 9:26 PM on May 24 [2 favorites]
Someone at Slate loves us. Is Slate still a thing?
posted by vrakatar at 9:26 PM on May 24 [2 favorites]
according to this report from 2009, the site was old in 2009.
In human years the site is over 300 years old.
posted by vrakatar at 9:33 PM on May 24 [2 favorites]
In human years the site is over 300 years old.
posted by vrakatar at 9:33 PM on May 24 [2 favorites]
Lot of good suggestions above, here's (hopefully) another:
A drive to encourage people, whether a new user or old user, to post more. There's been discussions previously about people feeling the bar of making a new post is intimidating. So let's encourage people to spend no more than 15 minutes on making a post. Just a few sentences and a link or two, nothing major. That way it would just be 15 minutes of their life and not a huge loss if it does not go well. Maybe do it on a particular day, call it 15 minute Friday? Or encourage new users to make their first post on Monday?
The big part of this, in my eyes, would also be to encourage the community not threadshit and immediately post short, negative answers. Criticism is fine, but keep it thoughtful. It would be on the community to flag such comments for the first 15 minutes or so and on the mods to quickly respond to those flags. Responding would mean removing some comments when necessary and leaving a note to encourage thoughtful comments.
This isn't about making MeFi a place of no negativity, but build on one of our core foundations, thoughtful commentary.
Hopefully, this is something we'd incorporate into the site DNA long term, and have occasional reminders to encourage people to do this.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:33 AM on May 26 [12 favorites]
A drive to encourage people, whether a new user or old user, to post more. There's been discussions previously about people feeling the bar of making a new post is intimidating. So let's encourage people to spend no more than 15 minutes on making a post. Just a few sentences and a link or two, nothing major. That way it would just be 15 minutes of their life and not a huge loss if it does not go well. Maybe do it on a particular day, call it 15 minute Friday? Or encourage new users to make their first post on Monday?
The big part of this, in my eyes, would also be to encourage the community not threadshit and immediately post short, negative answers. Criticism is fine, but keep it thoughtful. It would be on the community to flag such comments for the first 15 minutes or so and on the mods to quickly respond to those flags. Responding would mean removing some comments when necessary and leaving a note to encourage thoughtful comments.
This isn't about making MeFi a place of no negativity, but build on one of our core foundations, thoughtful commentary.
Hopefully, this is something we'd incorporate into the site DNA long term, and have occasional reminders to encourage people to do this.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:33 AM on May 26 [12 favorites]
Will any outlet be provided for our other core competencies (beanplating, sarcasm, pedantry, making cute little misspelled poems modeled on “I Lik The Bred”, etc)?
posted by Vatnesine at 9:20 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
posted by Vatnesine at 9:20 AM on May 26 [2 favorites]
meta: the P&L link in the body of the OP is trashed - may be useful to change it to reflect the new doc post-accrual-discussion?
posted by isauteikisa at 10:43 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
posted by isauteikisa at 10:43 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
Thank you all for the contributions to this thread and, therefore, this site's next steps:
– Thank you, capricorn, I updated the project plan with your feedback.
– The link to April's P&L in the original post has been updated.
– It's nice to see you, Brandon, dropping the Mod hat and participating here. Thanks!
posted by loup (staff) at 2:32 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]
– Thank you, capricorn, I updated the project plan with your feedback.
– The link to April's P&L in the original post has been updated.
– It's nice to see you, Brandon, dropping the Mod hat and participating here. Thanks!
posted by loup (staff) at 2:32 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]
Hey Loup, you might want to remove "board" from the title of the project plan if you want to indicate you're actually listening to capricorn re: their desire to avoid another board.
posted by Alterscape at 9:09 PM on May 28 [1 favorite]
posted by Alterscape at 9:09 PM on May 28 [1 favorite]
Uh-oh, I changed the body of the document, but overlooked the title. I've adjusted that and will update the table of contents tomorrow. Thanks for poiting that out.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:54 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 9:54 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]
loup, thank you so much, sincerely! I'm looking forward to this.
posted by capricorn at 7:23 PM on May 29 [3 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 7:23 PM on May 29 [3 favorites]
The reality of media resources today is probably that we’d need someone to write a really solid pitch, with key stats, interview contact(s) and an engaging hook, then send it out and follow up. Longevity is rarely a hook.
True enough. Ex-journalist here who pitched a story to a few outlets back when things looked even bleaker (from my perspective), and did not get any bites. That said, I don't think this is a story for mainstream media. I think it is a niche story for reporters who cover online culture because 1. MF is shifting from private to community ownership and 2. Just as it is turning 25.
Anniversaries are often appealing as story hooks. I think the community ownership shift ought to be a compelling angle. But that doesn't mean anyone besides fellow members will agree with me. In any case, I am willing to craft another pitch and try to get some press. But warriorqueen is right that we need some contacts. Please message me directly if you (unlike me) are willing to be interviewed by a reporter.
I can think of maybe 3 journalists who might be a good fit for this pitch. Will try to find more.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:23 AM on May 30 [9 favorites]
True enough. Ex-journalist here who pitched a story to a few outlets back when things looked even bleaker (from my perspective), and did not get any bites. That said, I don't think this is a story for mainstream media. I think it is a niche story for reporters who cover online culture because 1. MF is shifting from private to community ownership and 2. Just as it is turning 25.
Anniversaries are often appealing as story hooks. I think the community ownership shift ought to be a compelling angle. But that doesn't mean anyone besides fellow members will agree with me. In any case, I am willing to craft another pitch and try to get some press. But warriorqueen is right that we need some contacts. Please message me directly if you (unlike me) are willing to be interviewed by a reporter.
I can think of maybe 3 journalists who might be a good fit for this pitch. Will try to find more.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:23 AM on May 30 [9 favorites]
Probably a good idea to do an advertising campaign about 25 years of MetaFilter.
The fact there's a lot more third spaces isn't necessarily a drawback, as the major question for individuals is whether their current favorite internet is one they like or if think only one such space is needed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:33 AM on May 30 [6 favorites]
The fact there's a lot more third spaces isn't necessarily a drawback, as the major question for individuals is whether their current favorite internet is one they like or if think only one such space is needed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:33 AM on May 30 [6 favorites]
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I'd continue to push for a one-time, open-call feedback opportunity for trans and nonbinary mefites to provide feedback rather than a standing meeting or group which is a huge commitment of time and energy. It seemed like mefi leadership was open to that idea when we discussed in the April thread so I'm curious where that has since landed.
posted by capricorn at 1:25 PM on May 15 [11 favorites]