Is this really a worthwhile contribution?

November 16, 2002 11:10 AM

posted by Pancake Overlord at 9:40 AM PST on November 16 {more inside}
posted by anastasiav to Etiquette/Policy at 11:10 AM (50 comments total)

Oh sorry, I was biting into a scone.
posted by feelinglistless at 11:14 AM on November 16, 2002

OK, its tough to do, but officially color me offended.

Matt, is this guy really someone who is a contributing member of the MetaFilter community?
posted by anastasiav at 11:16 AM on November 16, 2002

Metafilter: All Human Life Is Here

Difficult. Should anyone in particular be singled out? I'm sure if some were to sit and look through the 16000 or so user pages there would be other stuff just like this. And there have been a lot more offensive things said in actual threads. I think the real question is what constitutes a good contribution. My 'scone' remark could be interpreted wrongly for example. Did I contribute something with it? Possibly not ...
posted by feelinglistless at 11:23 AM on November 16, 2002

He won't get any of _my_ syrup...
posted by Mrs_Butterworth at 12:20 PM on November 16, 2002

feelinglistless, did you look at the total package (er, as it were...) - the needlessly offensive and off topic link, the vulgar, off-topic, juvenile, troll-like comments in other threads, the user page - not to mention the stuff that we can't see 'cause Matt's deleted it.

You, on the other hand, have added a great deal that makes MeFi an interesting and insightful place to read. Can you say the same of Pancake Overlord?

Or are Mrs_Butterworth and Pancake Overlord really just alternate identities of MeFi Mafia regulars, and this is all just a big in-joke that I've somehow missed?
posted by anastasiav at 12:35 PM on November 16, 2002

anastasiav -- certainly did. Granted some of his comments are a bit off colour, but I've always said that Mefi is a microcosm. You'll meet all kinds. I wouldn't ban him outright though. Matt once called me out by email because some people didn't like my run of 'feelingsomething' comments because they were flippant and they felt they didn't make a valid contribution -- my longer opinions would be more interesting instead. Perhaps that approach would work here. I'd just be scared of starting a witch hunt (as in ... Dother Clucker never has anything good to say, we should ban 'im).
posted by feelinglistless at 1:12 PM on November 16, 2002

I just noticed Mrs_Butterworth and Pancake Overlord are the same user. I smell a rat ...
posted by feelinglistless at 1:14 PM on November 16, 2002

Any proof they're the same user? All I can see is that their user IDs are 3 numbers apart, nothing more.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:23 PM on November 16, 2002

Seems like an odd coincidence, but nothing more than that...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:26 PM on November 16, 2002

coincidence or not, Lebowski or not, I bet that the pancake overlord guy's account is going to be closed pretty soon

posted by matteo at 1:34 PM on November 16, 2002

Sorry, I thought they had the same user page. I realise now I was looking at the same one. I appear to have lost my accute powers of observation. What's the phrase ... oh yes ... my bad ...
posted by feelinglistless at 1:41 PM on November 16, 2002

What's the phrase ... oh yes ... my bad ...

And we shall never speak of it again.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:42 PM on November 16, 2002

I know for a fact that Pancake Overlord is no Mrs.Butterworth.

i think the link pancake overlord posted was a perfect response for the post one above her's linking to an ugly vagina shaped mouse.
posted by Mick at 2:34 PM on November 16, 2002

Right. What Mick said. Had the previous comment been anything other than a link to a picture of a labial mouse, it might be a bother. Context, folks, context.

Though, yeah, he does seem to be sort of a twit, too.
posted by cortex at 3:14 PM on November 16, 2002

Or are Mrs_Butterworth and Pancake Overlord really just alternate identities of MeFi Mafia regulars, and this is all just a big in-joke that I've somehow missed?

Yes. Carry on.
posted by Pancake Overlord at 3:27 PM on November 16, 2002

pancake, are you really just matt letting off steam?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:30 PM on November 16, 2002

Yes. Carry on.

Oh. Ok. Just so I'm clear then ... its acceptable behavior for me to get myself an alternate posting persona and then post crude and/or objectionable and/or offensive things whenever I feel like it, with no risk to my personal posting reputation - the only penalty is that I waste Matt's time from time to time when he has to delete my posts 'cause I've gone too far over the top. Just a good way to blow off steam, I guess.

Wow. Metafilter is an entirely different place than I've thought it was all these years.
posted by anastasiav at 11:05 PM on November 16, 2002

anastasiav: I'm worried that you're coming across as very thin-skinned, and a terrible sport. I'd hate to meet you in a social situation, you seem like the kind of person who would make me tired and edgy.
posted by cadastral at 11:30 PM on November 16, 2002

On the contrary, anastasiav not only presented her objection in a well-reasoned and generous way (allowing for several responses; one of which was eagerly taken), she elegantly avoided the pertinent accusation of juvenile boyzonism and points to a definite case of double standards.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:00 AM on November 17, 2002

Compared to Stan's link to a Mouse w/Lips, Pancake's link is tame. Besides, what is so offensive about a site discussing an actual surgical technique with nary an image to be found? Loosen up a bit, anas. ;P
posted by mischief at 4:11 AM on November 17, 2002

OK, its tough to do, but officially color me offended.

Would that be a mix of yellow and grey?
posted by Dark Messiah at 6:20 AM on November 17, 2002

Pancake Overlord:Yes. Carry on.

Anas:Oh. Ok. Just so I'm clear then ... its acceptable behavior for me to get myself an alternate posting persona and then post crude and/or objectionable and/or offensive things whenever I feel like it, with no risk to my personal posting reputation - the only penalty is that I waste Matt's time from time to time when he has to delete my posts 'cause I've gone too far over the top. Just a good way to blow off steam, I guess.

Wow. Metafilter is an entirely different place than I've thought it was all these years.

Or he's, you know, LYING. Doesn't that seem more likely?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:17 AM on November 17, 2002

First of all, lest anyone think this is about Boyzone tripe, I'm a woman who happens to love The Big Lebowski, hence the movie quotes in my user profile.

My email address is a valid one. Anyone who would have actually sent me some instead of coming here to whine would have figured that out quickly.

Ana, you still haven't said WHAT actually offended you. My comment about the ugly labias? The link to a site about vaginal reconstructive surgery? Or is it just my profile?

And why is it that you feel Metafilter (and Metatalk for that matter) are here to protect your delicate sensibilities? I stated my opinion about the link above mine, provided an interesting link, and moved on. I'm still unclear on how that could be offensive.
posted by Pancake Overlord at 10:06 AM on November 17, 2002

I for one, thought those labias were pretty nasty too.
posted by Stan Chin at 11:32 AM on November 17, 2002

I'm a woman who happens to love The Big Lebowski

I knew it. Pancake Overlord is a Thunderslut.
posted by yhbc at 11:35 AM on November 17, 2002

those labias

Er, Stan, my dear fellow, labia is plural enough as it is they are. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:02 PM on November 17, 2002

Huh. Learn something new everyday. I suppose I'll have to use it 10 times in conversation today so it sticks.
posted by Stan Chin at 12:05 PM on November 17, 2002

.... Let us know how that goes.
posted by webmutant at 1:01 PM on November 17, 2002

mmmmmm.....how long have you had this female alter ego
then matt?.....dont post anythin about showers....
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:17 PM on November 17, 2002

[clutching his bar of soap tightly, quonsar backs slowly out of the shower room]
posted by quonsar at 1:30 PM on November 17, 2002

I'm a woman who happens to love The Big Lebowski

As well as a woman named Jesus. Hmmm. The enigmatic type.

I had zero problem with the link from Jesus "Pancake Overlord" Quintana myself. Can't say I appreciate The Big Lebowski quote, however; it is pretty raw when read without knowledge of the context. Yet, I feel there should be more leniency with the user page info. A rude or morally offensive comment in the middle of a thread is much more jarring than something isolated on a separate page. If Ms. Pancake chooses to associate herself with talk of sodomizing, then so be it.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:44 PM on November 17, 2002

Can we all come to an agreement that MeTa is not the place to complain about comments that 'offend'? (Hah, doubtful.)

It seems pointless, since it will always split people. You'll have half saying "didn't offend me", while the other half say "well, it offended me". Barring, of course, those who think the topic is about pancakes, or brandishing their topic-du-jour title suggestions for the site.

If you've got a gripe about a comment, take it up with Matt AND the person who made it. Why bore others needlessly? Additionally, I think MeTa is better served dealing with (what I perceive to be) REAL issues; post content / quality, and site features / bugs. Frankly, we're all thin-skinned at times, don't turn MeTa into the PC police -- "I don't like what he said, he should be banned", etc.

Besides, MeTa discussions about "offensive" comments never solve anything, and usually just breed more offense, as the debate degenerates from "he said / she said" to "mine's bigger than yours".

E-Mail: use it. (My net worth -2¢.)
posted by Dark Messiah at 6:03 PM on November 17, 2002

I wasn't bored. ;-P

posted by mischief at 6:52 PM on November 17, 2002

E-Mail: use it

The worst offenders never post their emails. It's a rule, I think.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 7:43 PM on November 17, 2002

The worst offenders never post their emails. It's a rule, I think

Too true.

Perhaps a valid e-mail address should be a requirement for membership. Obviously there'd need to be something that filtered the oh-so-clever [e-mail] and it's ilk.
posted by Dark Messiah at 8:22 PM on November 17, 2002

Dark Messiah: If you've got a gripe about a comment, take it up with Matt AND the person who made it.

Shouldn't emailing Matt be a last resort? I would suggest:
1) If you're part of the discussion, and offended, say so. Otherwise, leave it to those who are participating to respond or do nothing.
2) If you get no response in the thread, send the person an email, and wait for a response.
* twenty more threads get posted *
3) Move on.

If the thread gets weighed down with sidetalk about the comment, only then take it to MeTa.
posted by eddydamascene at 8:44 PM on November 17, 2002

The elephant in the room is whether it is okay to have a second user identity, in order to behave poorly or contrary to guidelines ,as butter and overlord appear to confess to. Just how common is this practice? There was a question raised concerning MiguelCardoso having a second identity also.
posted by JohnR at 9:09 PM on November 17, 2002

If I were the baby jesus, I'd start crying around now.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:11 PM on November 17, 2002

JohnR, I think the obvious answer is that having a second identity is deceitful, however, many members have multiple personalities and since accountability is so low, many, including Matt, have to trust us to be valuable members of this site.
posted by BlueTrain at 9:15 PM on November 17, 2002

Gah...when did I become so preachy? Please ignore my last comment...and as a consolation:

Why do we need a MeTa post every time the simplest infraction bothers us?
posted by BlueTrain at 9:26 PM on November 17, 2002

"OK, its tough to do, but officially color me offended."

Good. Metafilter will on rare occasions shock or offend you. Good. Excellent.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:06 PM on November 17, 2002

I believe it was user luser (heh) who registered Miguel Cardoso with the space, or something like that. There's a metatalk thread about it that I'm too lazy to find.

There have been things posted here that offend me, too, although I would never have the cahunas (corrected spelling appreciated) to post a thread about it. That's life. People offend other people. I'm sure that I've offended many, many members here with my relentless and unceasing use of the smiley face emoticon. I really can't stop - I've tried. Hey, BlueTrain, long time no read ;)
posted by iconomy at 4:56 AM on November 18, 2002

just an aside - many people have remarkable beliefs regarding a "right" to avoid offense. i participated in a seminar once where the facilitator warned "This subject matter is provacative. What that means is, you will be provoked by it. Later, when you are feeling all self-righteous, plaintive and offended, I want you to remember this conversation." i found this honesty refreshing.
posted by quonsar at 5:32 AM on November 18, 2002

Cojones.
posted by konolia at 7:34 AM on November 18, 2002

I for one am shocked and offended by konolia's use of the term cojones. Please audit konolia's user information immediately, obviously this is someone offensive using a different moniker!
posted by Pollomacho at 7:50 AM on November 18, 2002

I for one am shocked and offended by Pollomacho's lack of of the term cojones in his post. Please audit konolia's user information immediately, obviously this is someone offensive using a different moniker!
posted by Dark Messiah at 7:54 AM on November 18, 2002

Aha. Cojones it is. I must have been thinking of the BIG Kahuna or something. Yeah, that's it. Thanks, konolia.
posted by iconomy at 8:06 AM on November 18, 2002

Metafilter: from labial mice to big cojones
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:04 AM on November 18, 2002

If you have a better definition of well-rounded, I'd like to hear it.
posted by Dark Messiah at 10:20 AM on November 18, 2002

Well-rounded.
posted by Mrs_Butterworth at 2:40 PM on November 18, 2002