Metafilter is like totally Iraqfilter and stuff March 30, 2003 7:28 AM   Subscribe

Hey, have you noticed that Metafilter is like totally Iraqfilter and stuff? Of course you haven't. But this guy has. Over and over and over and over and over and over again! Maybe it's time to put Metafilter=Iraqfilter on the sideglob, so as to save people the time of typing it in every post?
posted by Ljubljana to Feature Requests at 7:28 AM (98 comments total)

We're about overdue for another conservative mefite 'screw you guys, I'm going home' explosion, I expect the next one will either be him or our friend mr. 'Witty'. Those are always entertaining.
posted by Space Coyote at 7:44 AM on March 30, 2003


You know, what's funny is that I had this lingering feeling someone had to be doing that; I just didn't know who, and didn't know who was going to eventually be dragged here for it.

But I agree with your sentiment, Ljubljana. Every time I read that I get this urge to comment with "HOLY SHIT! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT IRAQ? I HAD NO IDEA, I NEVER WOULD HAVE READ IT IF I KNEW THAT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP" in a giant font. Or woudl that be stooping to an equal level of obnoxiousness?

Oh, and not to nitpick, but I find the word "sideglob" very funny.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:45 AM on March 30, 2003


Mmmm.... self-misspelling irony.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:46 AM on March 30, 2003


Funny how he participates in the threads while criticizing them at the same time. And while I realize it's hard to resist making a little critical comment now and then, it's usually best for everyone if you just ignore and move on. Life's too fucking short to contrive soap-operatic dramas out of this shit.
posted by crunchland at 7:49 AM on March 30, 2003


MetaIraqTalk
posted by matteo at 7:57 AM on March 30, 2003


I find the word "sideglob" very funny

Me too, but I can't take credit for it. It appeared in a thread here recently, where it caused me much mirth. I just tried to find the original mention of it, but failed.

Life's too fucking short

Not mine. My days are long, bright, and filled with pain.
posted by Ljubljana at 8:20 AM on March 30, 2003


hmm, I've deleted half a dozen more "Iraqfilter" comments on metafilter before. You'd think someone would see it and realize why the noise doesn't help anything.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:59 AM on March 30, 2003


Yeah, but what the fuck is the point of this bullshit? That crap doesn't belong in the precious few threads I go into because they ARE NOT about Iraq.

Even when you specifically try to avoid it, people are still getting their military wank fest in my metafilter, and it doesn't taste nearly as good as chocolate and peanut-butter.

Sorry -- just find it very annoying and frustrating these days as my only defense against the horror we're perpetrating is a carefully constructed artifice of denial and avoidance, ostrich style.
posted by willnot at 9:21 AM on March 30, 2003


It's not avoidance and denial to want non-iraq centered posts...generally speaking, we all get this stuff through other means of communication. Now the occasional post about something truly unique and interesting that's iraq related, there's nothing wrong with that. But then you get into discussions about what individual people find interesting, and it's just one big clusterfuck.

*poof, disappears*
posted by angry modem at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2003


FuckwitFilter?
posted by quonsar at 9:49 AM on March 30, 2003


We didn't put Iraq on the agenda, Bush did. If Beholder doesn't like it, he should complain to the commander in chief.
posted by muckster at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2003


If Matt kept clickthrough stats on links and posted a comparison of iraq vs. non-iraq posts I think I'd be quite disheartened. But such are the times, and people want to talk about what's going on in the world, and have become quite accustomed to this little group of people, so it would be quite difficult to keep people from talking about it. You can always avoid the Iraq threads..
posted by Space Coyote at 11:26 AM on March 30, 2003


You'd think someone would see it and realize why the noise doesn't help anything.

You know, I seem to think people would realize that same thing about all those Iraq related FPP.


We didn't put Iraq on the agenda, Bush did.

So there is an agenda here?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:38 AM on March 30, 2003


There are many places that people can dicuss the war with predominantly other Mefites: Here and here being two examples. But these outlets were never meant to replace MetaFilter. They were meant, in some respects, to assist MetaFilter by focusing topics and hopefully reducing the amount of noise/IraqFilter/WarFilter callouts that eventually end up here in the grey.

It would seem that these resources could be especially valuable to those who seem incapable of leaving Current events outside of non-CE threads, as willnot pointed out can be particularly annoying.
posted by Wulfgar! at 12:12 PM on March 30, 2003


http://www.iraqfilter.com
posted by andrew cooke at 1:52 PM on March 30, 2003


Hey, I didn't know that was there! Thanks, drew.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 2:09 PM on March 30, 2003


(neither did i until i followed Wulfgar!'s links)
posted by andrew cooke at 2:28 PM on March 30, 2003


We didn't put Iraq on the agenda, Bush did. If Beholder doesn't like it, he should complain to the commander in chief.

So you're saying people here have no self-control in their posting habits. Heh.

I get more than enough info about Iraq as it is.
posted by konolia at 3:35 PM on March 30, 2003


willnot : davidmsc is a particularly egregious and annoying drum-banger, I agree. I've written several long comments lambasting him, and then deleted them on preview, out of consideration for the group. But I hear you.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:25 PM on March 30, 2003


I'm tired of Iraqfilter, and have, and plan to comment very little, particularly in view of the nauseating comments along the lines of "we're losing," or "its' a stalemate," or, "we underestimated the Iraqis." (Well, maybe we somewhat underestimated the repressive nature of their regime, but that will account for a few weeks of extra war.)

I am very proud of this war, both it's aims, and the way it's being conducted.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:29 PM on March 30, 2003


Yeah, but what the fuck is the point of this bullshit? That crap doesn't belong in the precious few threads I go into because they ARE NOT about Iraq.

Willnot, at first I agreed with you. Politicized off-topic comments have no place on Metafilter, especially when the thread in question (Dog Island) is one of the few light-fare threads on MeFi these days. But then you went and said:

people are still getting their military wank fest in my metafilter,

and I lost respect for what you were saying. It amounts to, "Waaaah, someone is posting a strong opinion that is different from my own, waaah!"

As if there aren't literally hundreds of poorly written Bush-bashing posts, America-bashing posts and numerous other fashionable rants that you folks seem to overlook. As long as it is on-topic, davidmsc has a right to an opinion just like you do. Is it more acceptable to "get your civilian peace fest" in davidmsc's Metafilter? Are yours and stavros's opinions de facto more enlightened?
posted by dhoyt at 4:56 PM on March 30, 2003


I'm tired of Iraqfilter, and have, and plan to comment very little, particularly in view of the nauseating comments along the lines of "I am very proud of this war, both it's aims, and the way it's being conducted." (Well, maybe we somewhat underestimated the repressive nature of their regime, but that will account for a few weeks of killing others and ourselves.)
posted by eyeballkid at 5:04 PM on March 30, 2003


I may be the only person on MeFi who links both stav and davidmsc from his blog. And I consider them both net buds. As far as the war goes their both right to a degree and both full of shit to a degree, but then aren't we all. But all this crap is beginning to make me feel like some dumbass UN peacekeeping force that both sides wanna blow to kingdom come.
posted by jonmc at 5:09 PM on March 30, 2003


Hey, great job there on stating your exact opinions about the war in your comment about your intentions to not comment about the war anymore, FreedomParamus. The point of this thread was sort of about how we want people to STOP doing that.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:29 PM on March 30, 2003


he's still at it.
posted by donkeyschlong at 6:43 PM on March 30, 2003


(beholder, that is, i mean. but freedomparamus is still at it too.)
posted by donkeyschlong at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2003


I could have gone to Common Dreams if I wanted to see half the posts on MeFi lately. I could have gone to Little Green Footballs if I wanted to see the other half. I don't like doing either. However, the kind of comments FreedomP (and others, on both sides) make, while at the same time claiming they are "tired of Iraqfilter", make me think it's not going to stop. We're caught in a positive feedback loop.

I challenge everyone who's truly sick to death of Iraqfilter to make a FPP in the next three days that has no connection to the current millitary action. Don't mention the war! Take CNN and MSNBC off your links bar, and go dig up something original, inspiring and interesting. That what I'm planning on doing.
posted by Jimbob at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2003


both right to a degree and both full of shit to a degree, but then aren't we all?

Indeed. Some are more willing and some are less to admit that simple fact, but it is The Truth. You love America? Great, but I may think you're deluded. I hate America? Super, but you may think I'm a threat to freedom and democracy and mom and apple pie and should be locked up. Or you just think I'm deluded.

At the end of the day, if we end up defining ourselves through our politics more than our common love of humanity (or insert other cuddly concept here), then the terrorists have won, dang it.

Don't mention the war!

I did once, but I think I got away with it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:25 PM on March 30, 2003


Whatever side your on expression and freedom to voice it is paramount. I hope certain users are not squelched no matter how offensive they may seem. Offloading the meme to its own Freefilter site is brilliant.
posted by stbalbach at 8:04 PM on March 30, 2003


>As long as it is on-topic, davidmsc has a right to an opinion just like you do.

Telling anti-war types to go live on an island is not an political opinion but an ad hominem attack. Technically, its "on-topic," he just happens to be a troll lately.

Secondly, complaining about the content of posts belong here in Metatalk not in mefi. I'm certain a lot of people bitch just to try to derail threads they don't like. Funny how Beholder is so offended by Iraq posts but hasn't started one damn metalk thread about it.

I don't think any of this is going to change until Matt starts deleting posts that belong here and telling that person to use metatalk instead. We've already discussed "iraqfilter" a dozen times, no need to stink up the site because some babies didn't get their way and now resort to trolling because of it.
posted by skallas at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2003


I challenge everyone who's truly sick to death of Iraqfilter to make a FPP in the next three days that has no connection to the current millitary action.

You declare this as if it's some herculean task, when it is written there, right on the posting page by none other than the owner and creator of this very site!

"If you're thinking about posting about the impending war in Iraq, please reconsider"

All you have to do is read the thing, and respect the wishes of its writer, for flock's sake.
posted by hama7 at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2003


It's not really the posts (pro or con) which are the problem. It's that some people won't get off their soapbox long enough to go to the bathroom and their pantload of bullshit is stinking up the house. If you can't take your underwear off and put them on your head you have been at it too long. Take a break, smoke a joint/have a drink/talk to some "real people" or find a chatroom full of your like minded brethren sitting in their own excretement and enjoy.
posted by Mack Twain at 8:10 PM on March 30, 2003


Don't mention the war!
posted by carter at 8:41 PM on March 30, 2003


I challenge everyone who's truly sick to death of Iraqfilter to make a FPP in the next three days that has no connection to the current millitary action. Don't mention the war! Take CNN and MSNBC off your links bar, and go dig up something original, inspiring and interesting. That what I'm planning on doing.

Jim Bob's comment is quite astute. You see, no matter what is in the guidelines, people form their expectations about what can/should be posted from what they see. I did it. My first post was that AP article about Iraq suggesting that Saddam and Bush duel -- after it had been deleted two times. Based on what I'd seen on the front page, I had somehow formed the idea that might be acceptable.The feedback in the short-lived thread and the metatalk discussion did indeed work as a correction, but it took a while longer of thinking about that and watching for the best of metafilter posts to get a better idea.

Bottom line: increase the interesting/novel posts, and Iraqfilter will become less prominent, and there may even be a feedback effect.
posted by namespan at 8:48 PM on March 30, 2003


Indeed. Some are more willing and some are less to admit that simple fact, but it is The Truth. You love America? Great, but I may think you're deluded. I hate America? Super, but you may think I'm a threat to freedom and democracy and mom and apple pie and should be locked up. Or you just think I'm deluded.

Stavros, I think you'd like apple pie. I've never met your mom so I can't speak to that.
As for your feelings for the US of A, I'm not offended. You aren't American, and frankly I think people like you have a clearer idea of us than we do. Having said that, I do think my nation has done a lot of good in this world-I can only wish we were less arrogant about it. But that comes with being geographically rather isolated. Most of us have no clue.

I'm gonna support the troops. I'm not going to have an opinion on the war except to wish Saddam out of the way. And I am not going to post any Iraq links.
Fair enough?
posted by konolia at 8:54 PM on March 30, 2003


Super, but you may think I'm a threat to freedom and democracy and mom and apple pie and should be locked up. Or you just think I'm deluded.

You are, but I love you anyway... *big lip smacking kiss*
posted by Plunge at 9:01 PM on March 30, 2003


*blushes, titters*

And most definitely fair enough, konolia. My way of 'supporting the troops' is to argue (though not here, as much) against the wisdom of this war and the current American administration, but I want the same thing as our most vociferous Bush-cheerleaders, I hope : a world with fewer killers and fewer killed.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:08 PM on March 30, 2003


You're right, hama7 - (never thought I'd say that) - the request not to post pointless Iraqfilter crap was made by matt long ago. Maybe he needs to up the font size a bit. Add some blink tags.
posted by Jimbob at 9:45 PM on March 30, 2003


Personally what irks me most about IraqFilter posts is that they're preaching to the choir. I'd hazard a guess that 80% of people on Metafilter already know that the reasons for this war are flawed. Why not do the ballsy thing--take those reaons to a place like Free Republic and don't be afraid to lock horns. Spread some good information & solid facts. Good knows, they need it.
posted by dhoyt at 9:57 PM on March 30, 2003


I think that misses the point dhoyt. When two people approach an argument like this and enter a discussion, they are likely to emerge with their own viewpoints pushed futher to the extreme. They are not likely to change anyone's point of view.

So many FPPs are obviously only posted out of an effort to change people's opinion.

"Hey you left-wingers, look at how happy the Iraqis are to see us!"

"Hey you right-wingers, look at all the innocent Iraqis we've killed in the process."

You know what? It never works. It just creates more conflict and more extreme points of view, whether it's here or on Free Republic.
posted by Jimbob at 10:02 PM on March 30, 2003


Now that Warfilter exists, perhaps those who really despise the IraqFilter/NewsFilter discussions could point other users towards it? Not every time, but just now and then. Kind of like: "Take it to WarFilter!"
posted by skylar at 10:31 PM on March 30, 2003


Good idea, skylar.

Jimbob, my suggestion about Free Republic was only half- serious. I figured if people could swap (legitimate) news links then at least some folks would be exposed to ideologies that are unlike their own. Whether or not it legimately changes their minds is secondary.
posted by dhoyt at 10:38 PM on March 30, 2003


(never thought I'd say that)

Easy does it there, Jimbob. I just noticed that I think we're in the same timezone, which must count for something or other.
posted by hama7 at 10:40 PM on March 30, 2003


See?
posted by hama7 at 10:46 PM on March 30, 2003


Well look at that, timezone brothers. I believe I am several thousand kilometers to the south of your present position. Nice post on the maps.
posted by Jimbob at 10:56 PM on March 30, 2003

"Take it to WarFilter!"
Now that's funny!
posted by mischief at 11:04 PM on March 30, 2003


WaFi sounds a lot like Waaaaah!Fi, if you think about it.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 11:09 PM on March 30, 2003


How stupid. The entire world is embroiled in a serious position and we're arguing where and whether it should be talked about or not? Jesus Chirst props. Get a clue. You're making no sense other than the fact that everything is supposed to make no sense.

If you're not a prop, a troll, then you are indeed deluded. Which makes you one in the same.

Years from now there will be conventions filled with Bush-eared Trekkians. The reality of this insidious fantasy will finally be known when he kindly admonishes you to get a life.
posted by crasspastor at 2:33 AM on March 31, 2003


Gentlemen, you can't fight in there, that's the War Forum.

</got nothin'>
posted by Space Coyote at 2:49 AM on March 31, 2003


Iraqfilter is just a word. It doesn't compare to the deluge of anti war fpp, that have buried metafilter in mediocrity.
posted by Beholder at 2:56 AM on March 31, 2003


...?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 3:28 AM on March 31, 2003


f1rZt p0St!! SuX0RZZ!!! is also just a word, and contributes about as much to the conversation as your little contributions do. Except that they don't have the selective nature of your little Iraqfilter PSAs, which don't seem to appear in the 'look at the waving civilians' thread.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:32 AM on March 31, 2003


All this fuss over two or three users who have proven to be trolls over and over again? Sorry Matt, but by letting the trolls derail EVERY thread about one of the more controversial wars in history you're only encouraging them.

No I wont take it to another site. I post to mefi for my own reasons. You dont like it? You go somewhere else.
posted by skallas at 3:35 AM on March 31, 2003


You don't like it? You go somewhere else.

Now there's your encouragement for a diverse site.
posted by sebas at 3:47 AM on March 31, 2003


Please refer to uh, this.
posted by hama7 at 4:05 AM on March 31, 2003


Please refer to uh, this.

And then you can, uh, refer to the post where Matt mentions that he's been deleting Iraqfilter posts over the past few days because they're essentially useless.

Or not and continue to trudge across every fpp you see fit to mark with your particulary brand of charm.
posted by The God Complex at 4:21 AM on March 31, 2003


All this fuss over two or three users who have proven to be trolls over and over again? Sorry Matt, but by letting the trolls derail EVERY thread about one of the more controversial wars in history you're only encouraging them.

Gee that's funny, because I would describe the majority of Iraq fpp as trollish in nature.

I've passed up the opportunity to post dozens of pro war articles, because I happen to respect the wishes of the mod. It's just unfortunate the other side won't do the same.

No Iraq post is ever going to evoke the sort of meaningful discussion that metafiler is intended for, in fact they do the exact opposite.

So why keep posting them.

Iraqtalk
posted by Beholder at 4:31 AM on March 31, 2003


Holy crap...never thought that I would wind up being discussed (pro or con) in MeTa.

First, thanks to jonmc and dhoyt for leaping to my defense.

Second, in case someone missed it, my comment about sending anti-war protesters to an island was followed by the classic :-) smiley face emoticon, signifying that I WAS KIDDING. Harmless poke, done in a light-hearted thread about puppies living free in a tropical paradise.

And while I probably do sound like some sort of jingoistic war-monger to the left/liberal crowd, I'd wager that I'm in the bottom 10% of posters both overall and in IraqFilter threads...honestly, I don't try to troll, or flame, or piss anyone off.
posted by davidmsc at 4:44 AM on March 31, 2003


I've passed up the opportunity to post dozens of pro war articles, because I happen to respect the wishes of the mod.

Exactly x 10.
posted by hama7 at 4:45 AM on March 31, 2003

the sort of meaningful discussion that metafiler is intended
... but MeFi is NOT a discussion site. Or, does that argument only apply when it reinforces someone else's stand?
posted by mischief at 5:04 AM on March 31, 2003


I challenge everyone who's truly sick to death of Iraqfilter to make a FPP in the next three days that has no connection to the current millitary action. Don't mention the war! Take CNN and MSNBC off your links bar, and go dig up something original, inspiring and interesting. That what I'm planning on doing.

Great, so we get a bunch of suboptimal wannabe-interesting posts because people keep making the mistaken conclusion that one can improve a signal to noise ratio by adding more something. Hint: there is no pressure to post here, unless it's in your own head. I made a quote in another thread earlier today, that finding a link for mefi should be like Newton's apple falling from the tree ... too often I think we're picking over the rotting ephemera on the orchard floor.
posted by walrus at 5:15 AM on March 31, 2003


someday, this'll all make a wonderful tv series. I'm just not sure if it will be a soap-opera or a comedy.
posted by crunchland at 5:19 AM on March 31, 2003


crunch: The war or this thread? ;-P
posted by mischief at 5:28 AM on March 31, 2003


Tragicomedy. For both.
posted by walrus at 5:33 AM on March 31, 2003


Well, walrus, there are four levels of Metafilter (Five if you live in a trailor park...)

(1) Amazing, original, never-seen before finds.
(2) Interesting, well researched, informative posts that range between cool and mediocre, but which a lot of people out there still enjoy.
(3) Links intended for no reason other than to promote discussion on a topic (often a news story or Op-ed).
(4) Links intended to score a political point from one side or the other.

My suggestion was purely to raise the level of FPP's to "Level 2", instead of the base "Level 4" it's sitting at currently. That's not too much to ask, is it? As namespan pointed out, the kind of posts people make reflect the content already on the site. Nothing but "Level 4" Iraqfilter posts means people think that's the right thing to do. Diluting that with something of higher quality will hopefully encourage more quality.
posted by Jimbob at 5:34 AM on March 31, 2003


Trying to build the tower while ignoring the war going on on the ground will prove to be rather difficult indeed, as the number of new and interesting sites that pop up that have nothing to do with the war will probablhy be less for the next little while as everyone concerns him or herself with this war business.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:36 AM on March 31, 2003


Are people really "concerning themselves with the war business" that much? Speaking for myself, I'm still catching the train in the morning, doing my work, going to the pub on a Saturday night. I'm still finding things to post on my website (as well as put together some new ideas). I'm still playing in my band.

Other news is still happening - you just might have to turn to page 5 to read about it. People are still doing their stuff.
Are there really masses of people out there tuned into Fox News for every waking our, obsessing over every new development? If so, that's probably the saddest thing of all.
posted by Jimbob at 5:53 AM on March 31, 2003


I've passed up the opportunity to post dozens of pro war articles, because I happen to respect the wishes of the mod. It's just unfortunate the other side won't do the same.

And then you proceeded to do exactly what the mod said he doesn't want you to do. Your graciousness is exceeded only by the smell of your horseshit.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:02 AM on March 31, 2003


Are there really masses of people out there tuned into Fox News for every waking our, obsessing over every new development? If so, that's probably the saddest thing of all.

John French Allen of Adams Morgan says he has slept only about 14 hours since the war began. "He said he supports the president and has little time for those who prefer not to watch CNN or Fox News."
posted by azimuth at 7:30 AM on March 31, 2003


And then you proceeded to do exactly what the mod said he doesn't want you to do. Your graciousness is exceeded only by the smell of your horseshit.

He just made that comment yesterday, and I just heard about it this morning, so go sit on an ant hill )
posted by Beholder at 7:45 AM on March 31, 2003


Great, so we get a bunch of suboptimal wannabe-interesting posts

Here's my first shot at a "wannabe-interesting" post. Some people seem to have liked it, and other than compliments, there's not a whole lot of noise (some good signal from LimePi, too).

because people keep making the mistaken conclusion that one can improve a signal to noise ratio by adding more something.

I'm not sure why this is a de facto mistaken conclusion. You often can dramatically improve s-to-n ratios by adding signal as well as filtering noise.

I think that many MeFites probably do have a bunch of interesting posts sitting around in their head that they haven't bothered to make yet, or will run across something really cool and possibly non-Iraq related today or tomorrow. I've been thinking about Jim Davidson's quote for a long time, never gotten around to posting it. I've got at least two other good posts in me. I'll bet you do, too.
posted by namespan at 7:48 AM on March 31, 2003


We're about overdue for another conservative mefite 'screw you guys, I'm going home' explosion, I expect the next one will either be him or our friend mr. 'Witty'. Those are always entertaining.

Huh? What the hee-haw are you talking about? I've barely opened my mouth on this site for 6 weeks or so... and I'm sure that's appreciated. "Explosions" would be fewer and farther between if posts like this crap weren't allowed to remain.

I'd hazard a guess that 80% of people on Metafilter already know that the reasons for this war are flawed.

Haha.... Hahaha fuckin' HAH! Brilliant. 94% of people here know that you're a knucklehead.
posted by Witty at 7:52 AM on March 31, 2003


I think that many MeFites probably do have a bunch of interesting posts sitting around in their head that they haven't bothered to make yet

I think you're missing my point. My argument is that the interesting posts are out there on the web ... they aren't in your head to be coaxed forth through goodwill. You can't work on a post to make it better. Find something accidentally and post it. That's the entire process. Anything else is reaching.

I have thus far been unable to make a good mefi post, and so can't hold myself up as a good example. I just don't ever find stuff before someone else has. I don't think this detracts in any way from my "contribution", although you are free to disagree.

Of course you're right that one can increase signal through adding signal. I just don't believe that a bucketful of undiscovered signal is lying around anywhere to be chucked into the bathtub.
posted by walrus at 8:02 AM on March 31, 2003


He just made that comment yesterday, and I just heard about it this morning, so go sit on an ant hill )

You made the comment in this thread, the same thread Matt posted his comment. Strike two.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:04 AM on March 31, 2003


You can't work on a post to make it better. Find something accidentally and post it. That's the entire process.

You can, of course, accrete extra signal to what you found, but there has to be something interesting there to begin with.
posted by walrus at 8:15 AM on March 31, 2003


First, thanks to jonmc and dhoyt for leaping to my defense.

Read the comments again 1, 2. I don't think anybody was leaping to your defense. dhoyt said yeah you may have been wrong, but then went on to make incorrect assumptions about my own motivations. jonmc said you're a friend of his and he feels caught in the middle.

But yeah, thanks for adding a classic smiley face after dropping a big turn in one of the few punch bowls that day. It's not like there weren't already about 15 big, smelly, dirty porta-potties where you could have kept that bullshit.

I don't care if you support the war. I don't care if you don't. I just don't want to hear about it at all. I want to avoid it. That's what dhoyt missed. If the comment was something along the lines of let's send all the chicken hawks to their own island, my comment here would have been exactly the same. I deliberately avoid the threads where these discussions are going on.

I'd be thrilled if there weren't ANY threads where this discussion was going on. I know that's too much to ask. I'd be a little happier if there were just a lot fewer threads where this discussion was going on.

Seriously, how many different places do you need to where you can spout all of the pro/con bullshit? Isn't one enough?

But, I come here, and I skip over them looking for a grain of gold in an increasingly large, big, shitty beach of sand, and I find the one or two threads where it's like yeah, this is why I keep coming back.

And you put the fucking shit in there too. But yeah, thanks for the smiling face. It makes it a lot better knowing that you weren't serious about deliberately ruining the one peace of pristine, classic MeFi property.
posted by willnot at 8:15 AM on March 31, 2003


turd instead of turn, piece instead of peace. I can't spell when I'm feeling crotchety.
posted by willnot at 8:18 AM on March 31, 2003


As we now have a WarFilter to overflow to, this may become a moot point, however I enjoy reading the analysis of the war, here and on kuro5hin. As I have said before the quality of debate is much higher than just about anything that I have seen on TV. More valuable info in less time, helpful comments with a range of outlooks and links to peruse.
We all have different troll-meter sensitivities, which is why not having moderation makes this online community truly amazing.
People here are quite civil.
I do wonder about those who do nothing but complain that the site has an agenda, is a liberal cabal, isn't what it used to be. I would ask them to consider what it would be like to live in a society that doesn't represent their needs, moral values or goals. This is a fluid environment, things change. This is only a website.
Personally, the current Iraq operation is of particular interest to me. My government is spending my money, having my peers killed in my name, should I not be interested?
posted by asok at 8:52 AM on March 31, 2003


the current Iraq operation is of particular interest to me. My government is spending my money, having my peers killed in my name, should I not be interested?

It's interesting to me too, but there are many contexts where discussing the war is undesirable, such as a progress meeting at work (unless you're Donald Rumsfeld). I think people are just saying mefi is one of them.
posted by walrus at 9:01 AM on March 31, 2003


What asok said.
[scans the skies for flying pigs]
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:02 AM on March 31, 2003


Right here y6y6y6.

(still bitter that almost nothing happened in that post, worried that I killed it)
posted by namespan at 9:06 AM on March 31, 2003


Simple, Beholder. Are you helping anyone or anything, in any way, other than by feeling a nice moral superiority? Nope.

So it's just noise. Come on, bud.

Preview: I actually agree with asok, but the dialogue seems so stressful for the site and everyone involved that we should probably take it to WarFilter.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 9:08 AM on March 31, 2003


FWIW I agree that in-thread shout-outs are just another example of noise. That doesn't mean that the subject being shouted about is non-existent though, whether it has wings or not.
posted by walrus at 9:15 AM on March 31, 2003


Oh terrific: now we've got more people jumping on the bandwagon. Real classy, guys.

I agree with those who don't like warfilter comments dragged into non-war-related threads; that's perfectly sensible. But the people who post in threads that are clearly war-related, for no other reason than to complain that the threads are war-related, are just being asses.
posted by ook at 11:14 AM on March 31, 2003


Sheesh, willnot...in the words of Sgt Hulka ("Stripes") to Francis the Psycho: LIGHTEN UP.

What's going on Over There is literally life & death. FPP and O/T comments here at MeFi are not...this is a "diversion", a place to see what else is going on, or how other people are reacting to things (war or other)...singling me out for criticism based on an offhand and LIGHTHEARTED comment just seems both strange and harsh.

Relax.
posted by davidmsc at 12:10 PM on March 31, 2003


Well, there you have it folks. Off-topic comments? Certainly not the inconsiderate poster's fault. Nope, that's the fault of the reader. We should all just lighten up. The dick up your ass will hurt a lot less if you just unclench. Relax and enjoy it.

Dude - it's not like I started this thread, or went out of my way to call you out. I just happened to be annoyed by the inappropriate, off-topic comment that you made in that thread, and it seemed like a good example of the flood of crap that insinuating itself into even the brightest and sunniest fibers of the whole of MeFi. I'm sure you aren't the only one. You were just the one I remembered at the moment.

Clearly with the attitude I'm seeing, there's just no way to stop it. There's no way to get civility or consideration. Thanks for coming to the party. Feel free to throw up on my shoes, piss in the fichus or wipe your ass on the rug. I mean this is supposed to be a party right? Fun, whee! We certainly wouldn't want to bring anybody down by asking them to be responsible for their actions.

I mean that would be just too... too ... too uptight.

*sigh*
posted by willnot at 1:10 PM on March 31, 2003


willnot - Lighten up. You need a break or something.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:24 PM on March 31, 2003


Okay, I know this thread has been beaten to a fine pie stuffing, but I would to point out that Karl's comment pointed to from here, was right on the money. That MetaFilter post would have made an excellent post on WarFilter/IraqFilter. As one who has become quickly enamored of WarFilter, I don't think it at all innapropriate when somebody points out how something could benifit BOTH sites.
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:27 PM on March 31, 2003


You know, what's funny is that I had this lingering feeling someone had to be doing that; I just didn't know who, and didn't know who was going to eventually be dragged here for it. And:

And then you proceeded to do exactly what the mod said he doesn't want you to do. Your graciousness is exceeded only by the smell of your horseshit.

So knowing Matt's comment about IraqFilter chatter, XQ, what's up with this from just this morning? As the first comment in a thread? Is it okay because it's supposed to be ironic? Just sayin', maybe that 2nd comment needn't be so confrontational.
posted by onlyconnect at 2:35 PM on March 31, 2003


onlyconnect: Someone had originally posted "Iraqfilter" above my comment. It was deleted.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 3:36 PM on March 31, 2003


Erp. That is, they linked to the www.warfilter.com site. Like eight other people had done in the last... hour or so. I was referencing how doing that was instantly as annoying as just saying "Iraqfilter."
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 3:46 PM on March 31, 2003


I couldn't care less what warfilter is. Those who advocate moving stuff to warfilter might as well be saying take to K5 or to some blog. The mefite community has always posted what its mob mind has wanted to post since day one. A few pro-war trolls and a "warfilter" website are not going to change that.

These trolls are just derailing threads and making sure these threads self-destruct because they don't like the content. Then they're screaming, "Mefi doesnt do politics well!" Don't like a thread, then don't post in it. If you really don't like it then post in metalk. Its that simple. Sadly, they know how to properly use the site, but prefer in thread bitching so a real discussion never takes place.

Mefi is very political and these posts are here to stay. If you want to help the site then critcize run-of-the-mill Reuters posts and encourage good war posts. Posting "iraqfilter" or resorting to ad-hominems show how uninterested the pro-war trolls are in helping mefi. "Helping mefi" is now double-speak for putting a chill on posts that aren't about the proper way to wave little flags.
posted by skallas at 4:19 PM on March 31, 2003


He just made that comment yesterday, and I just heard about it this morning, so go sit on an ant hill )

You made the comment in this thread, the same thread Matt posted his comment. Strike two.


Ok put down the pipe. Yes I used the phrase in this thread, because it's that specific phrase that prompted this entire discussion. How can you have a discussion about a phrase if you're not willing to say it.

Don't bother saying strike three, because I just knocked it out of the park, and you've been pulled from the game.
posted by Beholder at 4:23 PM on March 31, 2003


Thanks for that clarification, XQ. For the record, I still think no IraqFilter chatter is good IraqFilter chatter -- even if it's "make fun of the chatter" chatter. But knowing about the deleted comment makes the pot more grey than black, in my mind.

Beholder, dude, there are all sorts of phrases you can discuss without saying them. Consider for example all of those allusive commercials for feminine hygiene products. Or, more seriously, ethnic slurs. Yahweh. Lots of words and phrases!
posted by onlyconnect at 5:26 PM on March 31, 2003


You know, you could rationalize the Iraqfilter comments in MeFi itself as a form of passive resistance.

Oops, did I just open a can of worms?
posted by mischief at 6:42 PM on March 31, 2003


Ok put down the pipe. Yes I used the phrase in this thread, because it's that specific phrase that prompted this entire discussion. How can you have a discussion about a phrase if you're not willing to say it.

Umm... because the thread is about how people want you to stop using it, Beholder.

Oops, did I just open a can of worms?

No, you didn't, mischief. I don't think a new argument is going to rise here. We've pretty much established that calling "Iraqfilter" is a general no-no, and subsequently it appears that those useless comments are getting deleted. Like his last baseball comment is proving, Beholder obviously thought what he was doing was clever; the general concensus is that it's not. Hopefully, it's clear to him now.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:05 PM on March 31, 2003


XQUZYPHY

I actually linked to warfilter (or iraqfilter, I think I screwed up) to answer the question in the post. What logs should be linked to. So you see? Still on-topic, and pretty relevant with all the meta about it.

However, I didn't explain my attempt at being funny, so Matt saw IraqFilter and deleted it. Oh well.
posted by sebas at 11:49 PM on March 31, 2003


Timing is everything, sebas. ;)
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:39 AM on April 1, 2003


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