Why The Use of Font Tags? April 21, 2001 10:09 AM Subscribe
Ugh.
I fixed it.
Ever since I saw that thread starter (which featured yellow fonts - which I killed) I've been kicking around the idea of killing any font tag use or at the very least color in font tags.
But sometimes there's a reason to use it, it's too bad people like this nyukid don't know how to use them sparingly and correctly.
So in situations like this: do you punish everyone and strip out all font tags or at least color="foo" in any tag? Or do you ban the offender for not having adequate filters and knowing what's appropriate and what's not appropriate?
these are the questions I think about every day.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:21 AM on April 21, 2001
Ever since I saw that thread starter (which featured yellow fonts - which I killed) I've been kicking around the idea of killing any font tag use or at the very least color in font tags.
But sometimes there's a reason to use it, it's too bad people like this nyukid don't know how to use them sparingly and correctly.
So in situations like this: do you punish everyone and strip out all font tags or at least color="foo" in any tag? Or do you ban the offender for not having adequate filters and knowing what's appropriate and what's not appropriate?
these are the questions I think about every day.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:21 AM on April 21, 2001
This is what you intended to link too.
Yeah, I agree, it is kind of "ugh" What a graphic way to get your point across though.....(j/k)
No, don't stop there, you haven't done the main part of Metafilter yet ;)
posted by lucien at 10:23 AM on April 21, 2001
Yeah, I agree, it is kind of "ugh" What a graphic way to get your point across though.....(j/k)
No, don't stop there, you haven't done the main part of Metafilter yet ;)
posted by lucien at 10:23 AM on April 21, 2001
This is what you intended to link too.
Uh, I did link to that. My link and your link are the same!
posted by Potsy at 10:36 AM on April 21, 2001
Uh, I did link to that. My link and your link are the same!
posted by Potsy at 10:36 AM on April 21, 2001
By the way, even before Matt fixed my post, it didn't turn the main page of Metatalk purple for me. The CSS styles for the rest of the page must have cancelled it out. (Let's hear it for IE5 on the Mac -- the only browser to fully comply with CSS standards!)
posted by Potsy at 10:40 AM on April 21, 2001
posted by Potsy at 10:40 AM on April 21, 2001
Sure ‘nuff potsy. Initially, when I tried to access it from the main page (not the comments page) it didn't work for me. It wasn’t a working link before Matt fixed it, or wasn't while he was in the process of fixing it. I note it is now.
Thanks BTW for bring the topic up here.
Matthowie, I can understand that one day you might have to take away some of our rights here because of the actions of a few.
I don't like the idea that some people might just use color and font tags to draw attention to their notes. It's pretty tacky.
What would be perfect, is if you could just take them away from the people who abuse them. Or not give those rights to them at all, until they had been here for a reasonable amount of time, and had shown that they will not abuse them. I guess that might a very time consuming answer to the problem though. I don't even know if it's possible.
On the other hand, I really value the fact that thus far, this system has been working pretty well. It would be a shame to lose it. I am actually proud of the fact that we (you) have been able to leave these choices intact for so long.
posted by lucien at 10:44 AM on April 21, 2001
Thanks BTW for bring the topic up here.
Matthowie, I can understand that one day you might have to take away some of our rights here because of the actions of a few.
I don't like the idea that some people might just use color and font tags to draw attention to their notes. It's pretty tacky.
What would be perfect, is if you could just take them away from the people who abuse them. Or not give those rights to them at all, until they had been here for a reasonable amount of time, and had shown that they will not abuse them. I guess that might a very time consuming answer to the problem though. I don't even know if it's possible.
On the other hand, I really value the fact that thus far, this system has been working pretty well. It would be a shame to lose it. I am actually proud of the fact that we (you) have been able to leave these choices intact for so long.
posted by lucien at 10:44 AM on April 21, 2001
Yes, I find it amazing that people can use font, img, and other tags ... and only every once in a while does someone do something inappropraite with them. Most message boards would have been crapflooded into oblivion by now.
posted by Potsy at 11:08 AM on April 21, 2001
posted by Potsy at 11:08 AM on April 21, 2001
Ugh is right! You know how your mouth starts to water right before you heave? That's the first time a color combo ever did that to me. Let's hope no one ever figures out the visual equivalent of the "Brown Noise." I'm gonna go lie down for a while.
posted by gimli at 11:34 AM on April 21, 2001
posted by gimli at 11:34 AM on April 21, 2001
Ugly but harmless. People (including me) have occasionally used color and other li'l HTML tricks to add a little tweak or jest or nuance to a post. I always enjoy little added bits of cleverness. Unless it becomes an issue, I would hate to see the capability get lost.
But why did he do it?? I thought people were being a little harsh on nyukid in what seemed to be a well-meant thread, and just figured it was some misguided reaction to feeling persecuted. But the thread starter was yellow? That makes it sound more like "what does this button do?"-style posting strategy.
posted by rodii at 1:41 PM on April 21, 2001
But why did he do it?? I thought people were being a little harsh on nyukid in what seemed to be a well-meant thread, and just figured it was some misguided reaction to feeling persecuted. But the thread starter was yellow? That makes it sound more like "what does this button do?"-style posting strategy.
posted by rodii at 1:41 PM on April 21, 2001
As if on request, here is what might be a good usage of font color.
posted by hijinx at 1:54 PM on April 21, 2001
posted by hijinx at 1:54 PM on April 21, 2001
As is this.
Matt, I think that most people are responsible in their use of HTML and I'd hate to see it go away for those of us who use it responsibly and for emphasis. The biggest problem I see is not abuse, but misuse, like when people forget to close tags. It might be interesting to add in a simple HTML tag validator which parses posts and adds missing end tags so that the entire page isn't screwed until someone throws in a closer...
Restricting on the user level is tough. My experience with "communities gone out-of-control" is that users who abuse services aren't particularly interested in creating community. Hence, they'd have no problem with moving to a new username. This would have the added benefit for them of zeroing out the community's contempt guage for them.
I think that a "problem post" link might be useful to alert you (or other moderators) of abusive posts. The report page could have a comments box, radio buttons for type of abuse, and strict definitions of what should and should not be reported there (HTML abuse-yes, personal attacks-maybe, spam-yes, self-linking-maybe, difference of opinion-no). Just a thought...
posted by fooljay at 2:11 PM on April 21, 2001
Matt, I think that most people are responsible in their use of HTML and I'd hate to see it go away for those of us who use it responsibly and for emphasis. The biggest problem I see is not abuse, but misuse, like when people forget to close tags. It might be interesting to add in a simple HTML tag validator which parses posts and adds missing end tags so that the entire page isn't screwed until someone throws in a closer...
Restricting on the user level is tough. My experience with "communities gone out-of-control" is that users who abuse services aren't particularly interested in creating community. Hence, they'd have no problem with moving to a new username. This would have the added benefit for them of zeroing out the community's contempt guage for them.
I think that a "problem post" link might be useful to alert you (or other moderators) of abusive posts. The report page could have a comments box, radio buttons for type of abuse, and strict definitions of what should and should not be reported there (HTML abuse-yes, personal attacks-maybe, spam-yes, self-linking-maybe, difference of opinion-no). Just a thought...
posted by fooljay at 2:11 PM on April 21, 2001
By the way, without meaning to pile on, "The limitations are endless" would be a great tagline, Matt.
posted by rodii at 4:47 PM on April 21, 2001
posted by rodii at 4:47 PM on April 21, 2001
It might be interesting to add in a simple HTML tag validator which parses posts and adds missing end tags so that the entire page isn't screwed until someone throws in a closer...
That's much harder to do properly than you might think, but it would be a great feature. Whenever I post something with a blockquote I'm paranoid that I've futzed up the closing tag...
posted by snarkout at 5:39 PM on April 21, 2001
That's much harder to do properly than you might think, but it would be a great feature. Whenever I post something with a blockquote I'm paranoid that I've futzed up the closing tag...
posted by snarkout at 5:39 PM on April 21, 2001
rodii, that use of colored text on your MeFi userinfo page is hilarious! That gave me a big laugh; just wanted to say thanks.
posted by Potsy at 7:22 PM on April 21, 2001
posted by Potsy at 7:22 PM on April 21, 2001
It's part of this whole self policing thing. Most people don't abuse HTML because they know its bad form. Avoiding doing things which are bad form is something that matters to people on Mefi.
I think that lucien's idea of restricting some antisocial members from using HTML might be as far as it needs to go.
posted by lagado at 7:51 PM on April 21, 2001
I think that lucien's idea of restricting some antisocial members from using HTML might be as far as it needs to go.
posted by lagado at 7:51 PM on April 21, 2001
Where's Neale? I *must* be the winner in the profile-page-view contest.
By the way, I just colored some spaces green.
posted by rodii at 10:31 PM on April 21, 2001
By the way, I just colored some spaces green.
posted by rodii at 10:31 PM on April 21, 2001
This seems to be an isolated incident. Do we really have to sit around and contemplate the permanent filtering out of certain tags just because one guy came in and did one stupid thing in one thread?
posted by aaron at 11:23 PM on April 21, 2001
posted by aaron at 11:23 PM on April 21, 2001
aaron, I'm afriad once people start doing it, copycats will follow (like the use of black on saturday in a thread starter). If it starts happening with any regularity, it'll have to be taken away from everyone.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:09 PM on April 22, 2001
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:09 PM on April 22, 2001
Hmmm, did the black font tag not get closed either? Snarkout, a simple HTML validator (i.e. check that all tags are closed), is actually very easy. I've done it in Perl, PHP and C. Never done it in MEFI, which I hear is a great language. A true HTML validator is tough and very logic intensive, but I don't think Matt cares wheter or not the HTML actually works, but instead that it doesn't ruin the page and require intervention.
The other thing that can be done pretty easily is to strip all HTML except for a small subset of formatting tags. (B, I, PRE, etc). This is what a lot of forums I've been to do. I personally also think that if HREFs will be allowed, any rollover effects should be canned. It would be far too easy for someone to misdirect people to some site they're hawking...
And Matt, I'm not just throwing curveballs here. If you need help, I'll be glad to assist.
posted by fooljay at 2:22 PM on April 22, 2001
The other thing that can be done pretty easily is to strip all HTML except for a small subset of formatting tags. (B, I, PRE, etc). This is what a lot of forums I've been to do. I personally also think that if HREFs will be allowed, any rollover effects should be canned. It would be far too easy for someone to misdirect people to some site they're hawking...
And Matt, I'm not just throwing curveballs here. If you need help, I'll be glad to assist.
posted by fooljay at 2:22 PM on April 22, 2001
Snarkout, a simple HTML validator (i.e. check that all tags are closed), is actually very easy.
Sure. I'm sure there are pre-written ColdFusion versions if Matt doesn't want to waste time writing one and decides that it would be worthwhile. But doing one that actually can recognize, say, that a close-tag within a comment doesn't actually close the tag is harder. I'd say the marginal value Matt would gain in terms of MeGrafitti prevention is minimal.
posted by snarkout at 4:02 PM on April 23, 2001
Sure. I'm sure there are pre-written ColdFusion versions if Matt doesn't want to waste time writing one and decides that it would be worthwhile. But doing one that actually can recognize, say, that a close-tag within a comment doesn't actually close the tag is harder. I'd say the marginal value Matt would gain in terms of MeGrafitti prevention is minimal.
posted by snarkout at 4:02 PM on April 23, 2001
But doing one that actually can recognize, say, that a close-tag within a comment doesn't actually close the tag is harder.
Only if you don't just strip out all comment tags beforehand, which would be the sensible thing to do since there is no reason whatsoever anybody needs them.
posted by kindall at 5:45 PM on April 23, 2001
Only if you don't just strip out all comment tags beforehand, which would be the sensible thing to do since there is no reason whatsoever anybody needs them.
posted by kindall at 5:45 PM on April 23, 2001
Sorry everyone. I realize that making that whole post purple was unnecessary. Won't happen again, I just wasn't thinking (which may be evident with my much discussed err -- "THE LIMITATIONS ARE ENDLESS").
posted by nyukid at 9:43 PM on April 23, 2001
posted by nyukid at 9:43 PM on April 23, 2001
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<font color="purple"> Ugh.
My "<" and ">" strings got converted to acutal '<' and '>' characters. Whups.
posted by Potsy at 10:15 AM on April 21, 2001