No more xFilter, please March 22, 2004 7:27 PM Subscribe
I vote for a moratorium on prefacing posts with xFilter (i.e. foodFilter, sexFilter, tivoFilter, etc.) Maybe in a few month it will be amusing again, but at the moment it just makes me tired.
fatigueFilter
posted by interrobang at 7:29 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by interrobang at 7:29 PM on March 22, 2004
AntiPrefaceFilter.
posted by grabbingsand at 7:36 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by grabbingsand at 7:36 PM on March 22, 2004
GetYourOwnWebsiteFilter
posted by inpHilltr8r at 7:42 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by inpHilltr8r at 7:42 PM on March 22, 2004
hmm... maybe reverse psychology will work. Hey, everyone! Let's see how many phrases we can come up with that end with "Filter"!!!
posted by grumblebee at 7:46 PM on March 22, 2004
On preview:
XQUZYPhilter and
Reverse-Psychology-Might-Work-Better-Filter
That's lame grumblebee. I'm sick of that Filter stuff.
posted by namespan at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2004
That's lame grumblebee. I'm sick of that Filter stuff.
posted by namespan at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2004
Reading one word makes you tired? Perhaps you need to get more sleep at night.
posted by Space Coyote at 7:49 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 7:49 PM on March 22, 2004
One word doesn't make me tired. The same (not so funny to begin with) joke over and over again makes me tired. However, I suspect I'm in the minority here, so I yield to the will of the group.
posted by grumblebee at 8:07 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by grumblebee at 8:07 PM on March 22, 2004
Actually I find it annoying too. But one can't resist the temptation to throw stuff at the guy at the centre of attention.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:13 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 8:13 PM on March 22, 2004
ThrowStuffAtSpaceCoyoteFilter
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:25 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:25 PM on March 22, 2004
I'll stop calling "NewsFilter" the day people stop posting lazy links to CNN, Salon.com, USA Today, NY Times, Yahoo News, The Guardian, NRO, et al.
posted by dhoyt at 8:26 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by dhoyt at 8:26 PM on March 22, 2004
Agreementfilter. Ifilter alsofilter thinkfilter itsfilter fuckingfilter annoyingfilter, butfilter iffilter Ifilter paidfilter toofilter muchfilter attentionfilter tofilter allfilter thefilter annoyingfilter thingsfilter thatfilter peoplefilter seemfilter tofilter findfilter amusingfilter aroundfilter herefilter latelyfilter, I'dfilter neverfilter comefilter backfilter tofilter Metafilterfilter.
It's a useful shorthand, but when someone uses it to make a lame joke or be one of the Cool Kids, it grates, badly. Probably not going to stop anytime soon, though, just the like 'FPP' and '[MI]' virii.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:54 PM on March 22, 2004
It's a useful shorthand, but when someone uses it to make a lame joke or be one of the Cool Kids, it grates, badly. Probably not going to stop anytime soon, though, just the like 'FPP' and '[MI]' virii.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:54 PM on March 22, 2004
Yet Another Whinge About Sweet Fuck All.
Seems to be a lot of it going 'round MetaTalk these days.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:28 PM on March 22, 2004
Seems to be a lot of it going 'round MetaTalk these days.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:28 PM on March 22, 2004
Just give me another reason to post a picture of my butt, Grumblebee...
(please!)
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:57 PM on March 22, 2004
(please!)
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:57 PM on March 22, 2004
IANAL, but I'm careful about it.
posted by The God Complex at 10:27 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 10:27 PM on March 22, 2004
doesdhoytdoanythingotherthanbitchaboutnewsfilterquestionmarkfilter
posted by y2karl at 10:36 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by y2karl at 10:36 PM on March 22, 2004
You don't have a vote.
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:41 PM on March 22, 2004
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:41 PM on March 22, 2004
As usual, I wholeheartedly agree with grumblebee and think his admonition should be welcomed.
This ***filter thing is so lazy, like all ready-made comments. Why can't people take the trouble to actually think out what they want to say? Knee-jerk "automata" posts are so deadly boring. Everyone is interesting and has interesting things to say (yes, everyone) so why sell yourself short by posting formulae?
Insecurity is the great American disease and ganging-up and joiining-in is its regrettable corollary. Perhaps a guideline should be added saying "Yes, we are TRULY interested in your opinion, which is unique and inimitable!"?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:25 PM on March 22, 2004
This ***filter thing is so lazy, like all ready-made comments. Why can't people take the trouble to actually think out what they want to say? Knee-jerk "automata" posts are so deadly boring. Everyone is interesting and has interesting things to say (yes, everyone) so why sell yourself short by posting formulae?
Insecurity is the great American disease and ganging-up and joiining-in is its regrettable corollary. Perhaps a guideline should be added saying "Yes, we are TRULY interested in your opinion, which is unique and inimitable!"?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:25 PM on March 22, 2004
Miguel, how come every observation you made has to be expressed through some European vs. American sensibility filter, instead of just addressing the issue at hand? Your consistent need to associate every user on this site with various undesirable American stereotypes is so lazy and occurs with such frequency that it appears ready-made itself. And it marks you as the typical european elitist, engaging in the pretense of dialogue while seeking the shelter of warm, soft generalities--the disease of middle aged over-indulgence.
...
I also happen to think the ____ filter is usually tiresome but not enough to make a rule of it.
posted by The God Complex at 11:37 PM on March 22, 2004
...
I also happen to think the ____ filter is usually tiresome but not enough to make a rule of it.
posted by The God Complex at 11:37 PM on March 22, 2004
TGC: I really like and respect you and I'd hate you to think I didn't love America and Americans. I'm a well-known Portuguese writer who is often ridiculed by the Left for being so pro-American: not pickily pro-American, truly pro-American, in the sense that it's my second country. America, for me (and a lot of other Portuguese and Europeans) really is what the Portuguese philosopher Agostinho da Silva memorably called Europe set free or, if you like, Europe's second chance or even revenge. Except it's not only Europe.
However, America and Europe are very, very, very different. It's split 50/50 on who is better but the thing is - why choose? America and Europe are one. It's called The West. Aren't you critical of certain U.S. states perhaps not as enlightened as you? Don't I weekly rail against my fellow Portuguese? Differences exist and they should be cherished.
Have you ever been in Europe? It's very different (a lot worse in many respects: less honest, more ingrained, more snobbish and arrogant but, above all, more ignorant of the world) but it's delightful. There are different sensibilities from region to region; never mind from country to country.
Noting local bugbears, weaknesses and strengths is part of the curiosity and the love. I find American self-criticism here on MeFi a sign of, if not greatness, health. Allow an Americanophile like me to make the odd critical remark, will you? You fascist! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:51 PM on March 22, 2004
However, America and Europe are very, very, very different. It's split 50/50 on who is better but the thing is - why choose? America and Europe are one. It's called The West. Aren't you critical of certain U.S. states perhaps not as enlightened as you? Don't I weekly rail against my fellow Portuguese? Differences exist and they should be cherished.
Have you ever been in Europe? It's very different (a lot worse in many respects: less honest, more ingrained, more snobbish and arrogant but, above all, more ignorant of the world) but it's delightful. There are different sensibilities from region to region; never mind from country to country.
Noting local bugbears, weaknesses and strengths is part of the curiosity and the love. I find American self-criticism here on MeFi a sign of, if not greatness, health. Allow an Americanophile like me to make the odd critical remark, will you? You fascist! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:51 PM on March 22, 2004
I was only 26.4% serious, as you should have noted by my admonishment of your generalities and then my about-face as I called you on being the "typical european elitist."
The only serious point I was making is that you seem to strive to discuss so many issues in terms of European vs. American sensibilities, rather than the western sensibilities you just pointed out. In terms of issues such as insecurity, I think you'd probably find its prevalent in all western culture, not just America. What's more, I think you'd also find that the American members of Metafilter make a pretty poor focus group because they're of above average intelligence and skewed politically.
As I've pointed out before, I'm Canadian and have no problem if you want to point out the inconsistencies of American culture, but in this case I think you're looking for a difference that doesn't exist. The reliance on tired "in-jokes" exists in any culture, whether you're talking about an entire society or a small circle of friends. At most, it's an indication of how funny the person is; if someone relies constantly on the same tired jokes, with no zest for originality, they're probably just not interested (or are incapable) of coming up with something better.
And, as I said, it's usually not terribly funny, but it's also not distracting enough to throw me off it it's only a mild attempt at humour (and not an attempt to derail the thread by reducing it to some undesirable form such as "newsfilter").
Have you ever been in Europe? It's very different (a lot worse in many respects: less honest, more ingrained, more snobbish and arrogant but, above all, more ignorant of the world) but it's delightful. There are different sensibilities from region to region; never mind from country to country.
Unfortunately, no, I haven't been there yet. Having no career to speak of (unless you count being an idle student a career), I don't so much have the cash flow for those sort of excursions, as of yet anyway. Perhaps in a couple years I'll get the chance.
Noting local bugbears, weaknesses and strengths is part of the curiosity and the love. I find American self-criticism here on MeFi a sign of, if not greatness, health. Allow an Americanophile like me to make the odd critical remark, will you? You fascist! :)
I think so, too, and if you read my very limited posting history you'll see that a few of them were dedicated to critiquing Canadian actions in regards to the Arar case. I criticize western culture both viogorously and frequently (the "mania for owning things", as Whitman noted in Songs of Myself), but I really think the connection your trying to form here is tenuous. I just don't see it.
posted by The God Complex at 12:08 AM on March 23, 2004
The only serious point I was making is that you seem to strive to discuss so many issues in terms of European vs. American sensibilities, rather than the western sensibilities you just pointed out. In terms of issues such as insecurity, I think you'd probably find its prevalent in all western culture, not just America. What's more, I think you'd also find that the American members of Metafilter make a pretty poor focus group because they're of above average intelligence and skewed politically.
As I've pointed out before, I'm Canadian and have no problem if you want to point out the inconsistencies of American culture, but in this case I think you're looking for a difference that doesn't exist. The reliance on tired "in-jokes" exists in any culture, whether you're talking about an entire society or a small circle of friends. At most, it's an indication of how funny the person is; if someone relies constantly on the same tired jokes, with no zest for originality, they're probably just not interested (or are incapable) of coming up with something better.
And, as I said, it's usually not terribly funny, but it's also not distracting enough to throw me off it it's only a mild attempt at humour (and not an attempt to derail the thread by reducing it to some undesirable form such as "newsfilter").
Have you ever been in Europe? It's very different (a lot worse in many respects: less honest, more ingrained, more snobbish and arrogant but, above all, more ignorant of the world) but it's delightful. There are different sensibilities from region to region; never mind from country to country.
Unfortunately, no, I haven't been there yet. Having no career to speak of (unless you count being an idle student a career), I don't so much have the cash flow for those sort of excursions, as of yet anyway. Perhaps in a couple years I'll get the chance.
Noting local bugbears, weaknesses and strengths is part of the curiosity and the love. I find American self-criticism here on MeFi a sign of, if not greatness, health. Allow an Americanophile like me to make the odd critical remark, will you? You fascist! :)
I think so, too, and if you read my very limited posting history you'll see that a few of them were dedicated to critiquing Canadian actions in regards to the Arar case. I criticize western culture both viogorously and frequently (the "mania for owning things", as Whitman noted in Songs of Myself), but I really think the connection your trying to form here is tenuous. I just don't see it.
posted by The God Complex at 12:08 AM on March 23, 2004
Well said, TGC - and touché regarding your "you seem to strive to discuss so many issues in terms of European vs. American sensibilities, rather than the western sensibilities you just pointed out." remark.
What prompted me to separate was the fact that grumblebee's well-expressed grumble was followed by a series of "Me too!" posts which struck me, as a European, whether you like it or not (and as a Canadian I should warn you that you're one of us for all intents and purposes) was the ganging-up, neener-neener, "let me at him" succession of comments.
Here in Europe, given our contrariness, the second comment would have disparaged the first and the third the second. There's no love of anything resembling consensus here, thank God. It's the ganging up and the repetition I object to. If someone has already said what you feel, why chip in? Surely it's only worth commenting if you have something to add or dissent from.
But, yes, I'll check my ways as I am definitely middle-aged, European and self-indulgent. From now on my main object of hatred shall be... British Columbia! Or Ontario, even, with an obsessive focus on Ottawa, if I'm feeling really violent! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:26 AM on March 23, 2004
What prompted me to separate was the fact that grumblebee's well-expressed grumble was followed by a series of "Me too!" posts which struck me, as a European, whether you like it or not (and as a Canadian I should warn you that you're one of us for all intents and purposes) was the ganging-up, neener-neener, "let me at him" succession of comments.
Here in Europe, given our contrariness, the second comment would have disparaged the first and the third the second. There's no love of anything resembling consensus here, thank God. It's the ganging up and the repetition I object to. If someone has already said what you feel, why chip in? Surely it's only worth commenting if you have something to add or dissent from.
But, yes, I'll check my ways as I am definitely middle-aged, European and self-indulgent. From now on my main object of hatred shall be... British Columbia! Or Ontario, even, with an obsessive focus on Ottawa, if I'm feeling really violent! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:26 AM on March 23, 2004
I've actually used the ...filter tag recently. I didn't use it to be funny, but instead used it to give a short explanation for why I was asking a particular AskMefi question. Rather than going into a convoluted explanation, I used the ShortStoryFilter tag instead. Instantly understandable, and it didn't intrude with the rest of the question.
posted by seanyboy at 12:36 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by seanyboy at 12:36 AM on March 23, 2004
I think we have reached a common ground, Miguel, and you can proceed with your attacks on Canada accordingly. I suggest you look into the abhorrent treatment of aboriginal peoples, especially some of the police brutality in the prairies. Or perhaps you could focus on the 45 billion dollars plus that our Prime Minister took from EI (employment insurance) when he was finance minister to help "balance the budget." Or the current scandal involving the Liberals dispersal of government funds to companies that supported their party. We're certainly not suffering from a shortage of disturbing behaviour ;)
seanyboy: good point. There might be situations where such shorthand would be useful, although if we ever open this place up to new members such uses are always met with some disapproval, as they act as a sort of "in jargon" that only familiar members understand.
also, as an aside, since I mentioned that Whitman quote, and it seems particularly--or at least partially--relevant, here it is in its fractured entirety:
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that live thousands of years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.
posted by The God Complex at 12:55 AM on March 23, 2004
seanyboy: good point. There might be situations where such shorthand would be useful, although if we ever open this place up to new members such uses are always met with some disapproval, as they act as a sort of "in jargon" that only familiar members understand.
also, as an aside, since I mentioned that Whitman quote, and it seems particularly--or at least partially--relevant, here it is in its fractured entirety:
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that live thousands of years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.
posted by The God Complex at 12:55 AM on March 23, 2004
For gods sakes no-one use 'IronyFilter'. It'll all get farked in seconds...
posted by twine42 at 3:09 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by twine42 at 3:09 AM on March 23, 2004
what about a moratorium on Miguel acting as some kind of European ambassador to the US?
he simply isn't. nobody here represents anything except his/her/its own ideas.
btw this is just another reason why I think that when Matt re-opens the gates, we should strive for maximum geographical/religious diversity, adding lots of non-USians and Muslims to the community
posted by matteo at 3:28 AM on March 23, 2004
he simply isn't. nobody here represents anything except his/her/its own ideas.
btw this is just another reason why I think that when Matt re-opens the gates, we should strive for maximum geographical/religious diversity, adding lots of non-USians and Muslims to the community
posted by matteo at 3:28 AM on March 23, 2004
Miguel ... some kind of European ambassador to the US?
he simply isn't.
Love'imBless'imSqueeze'im - he speaks as if the whole continent from Gibraltar to Murmansk and from Oporto to Yekaterinburg is socially homogenous (let alone economically & politically).
Miggy, it's just that it undermines your credibility, both from those who live in europe and those who don't. Which is pretty much all of us!
BTW, I would say that the evidence of plie-ons against you in here before now does not lead to the conclusion that 'piling on' is a yankee thing - it seems to be universal...
posted by dash_slot- at 4:31 AM on March 23, 2004
he simply isn't.
Love'imBless'imSqueeze'im - he speaks as if the whole continent from Gibraltar to Murmansk and from Oporto to Yekaterinburg is socially homogenous (let alone economically & politically).
Miggy, it's just that it undermines your credibility, both from those who live in europe and those who don't. Which is pretty much all of us!
BTW, I would say that the evidence of plie-ons against you in here before now does not lead to the conclusion that 'piling on' is a yankee thing - it seems to be universal...
posted by dash_slot- at 4:31 AM on March 23, 2004
But don't misunderstand; we are actually pro-Miguel. Not pickily pro-Miguel, but truly pro-Miguel. In fact, some of our best friends are Miguel. However, Miguel is very, very, very different. Have you ever met Miguel? He's very different (a lot worse in many respects: less honest, more ingrained, more snobbish and arrogant but, above all, more ignorant of the world) but delightful.
posted by taz at 5:23 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by taz at 5:23 AM on March 23, 2004
There used to be this great site called Triteme, which (as far as I can tell) no longer exists. It was a list of pop-culture cliches. You know, the kind of suff people yell out on the Ricky Lake show (i.e. "It's my way or the highway!" or "talk to the hand.")
I find it interesting that some people (i.e. me) find this stuff accutely irritating. Others seem to be mystified why the irritated complain about it so much. I wish I could explain it. George Orwell likened this sort of language to bits of a "pre-fabricated" henhouse: stringing together stock phrases to express an idea.
Others seem to find great comfort in these henhouse phrases. My guess is it's because -- like in jokes -- use of the phrases makes them feel connected to all the other people who use the same phrases.
I get seanyboy's point about using ShortStoryFilter to indicate the topic of his question. But why not Short Story Question? What is gained by using the xFilter formula except to express a thought that could be made clear and simple in a kinda' amusing way.
Confession: I have a pretty binary personality. To me, something is either funny or it's not. There's no place in my universe for the kinda' amusing. Which is why I'm totally mystified by most newspaper headlines. Why write "Dems Do Dubya Dance" rather than "Democrats Agree with Bush." I can't imagine anyone finding the former funny -- and it's definitely less clear than the latter. So what's the point?
posted by grumblebee at 5:59 AM on March 23, 2004
I find it interesting that some people (i.e. me) find this stuff accutely irritating. Others seem to be mystified why the irritated complain about it so much. I wish I could explain it. George Orwell likened this sort of language to bits of a "pre-fabricated" henhouse: stringing together stock phrases to express an idea.
Others seem to find great comfort in these henhouse phrases. My guess is it's because -- like in jokes -- use of the phrases makes them feel connected to all the other people who use the same phrases.
I get seanyboy's point about using ShortStoryFilter to indicate the topic of his question. But why not Short Story Question? What is gained by using the xFilter formula except to express a thought that could be made clear and simple in a kinda' amusing way.
Confession: I have a pretty binary personality. To me, something is either funny or it's not. There's no place in my universe for the kinda' amusing. Which is why I'm totally mystified by most newspaper headlines. Why write "Dems Do Dubya Dance" rather than "Democrats Agree with Bush." I can't imagine anyone finding the former funny -- and it's definitely less clear than the latter. So what's the point?
posted by grumblebee at 5:59 AM on March 23, 2004
Oh, and while I'm being a spoilsport: do we really need constant Simpsons references? I like The Simpsons. It's a funny show.
Less funny is the fact that whenever anyone posts something about some corporation or person who is trying to control our lives, you just KNOW there will be a post here that says, "I for one welcome our X overlords."
It WAS funny on The Simpsons, and it was funny the first time someone posted it here. Now it's just a kinda' amusing ritual. What's the point?
I guess my main point is, if you're capable of writing something really funny, by all means write it. But why just toss in someone else's gag that was once funny in a different context. You don't HAVE to try to be funny. I'm rarely original or smart enough to come up with a truly funny joke, so I don't subject people to my lame ones. Instead, I try to contribute to this forum in other ways. (Like writing posts in which I whine about stuff that other people find fun.)
posted by grumblebee at 6:08 AM on March 23, 2004
Less funny is the fact that whenever anyone posts something about some corporation or person who is trying to control our lives, you just KNOW there will be a post here that says, "I for one welcome our X overlords."
It WAS funny on The Simpsons, and it was funny the first time someone posted it here. Now it's just a kinda' amusing ritual. What's the point?
I guess my main point is, if you're capable of writing something really funny, by all means write it. But why just toss in someone else's gag that was once funny in a different context. You don't HAVE to try to be funny. I'm rarely original or smart enough to come up with a truly funny joke, so I don't subject people to my lame ones. Instead, I try to contribute to this forum in other ways. (Like writing posts in which I whine about stuff that other people find fun.)
posted by grumblebee at 6:08 AM on March 23, 2004
Rituals build and reinforce communities, grumble...and ___Filter is really very clear and effective shorthand--you glance at it, and immediately know if you want to read the post or follow the link. And we just had a MeTa post decrying unclear formatting--you can't win either way, i guess.
posted by amberglow at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by amberglow at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2004
Why write "Dems Do Dubya Dance" rather than "Democrats Agree with Bush."
Top Ten Tabloid Headlines.
Though in all other aspects, I'm with you, grumblebee, for all the good it does.
posted by hama7 at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2004
Top Ten Tabloid Headlines.
Though in all other aspects, I'm with you, grumblebee, for all the good it does.
posted by hama7 at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2004
I agree that the *-filter trope has become annoying. I also cringe when people call the comics page "the funnies" or "the funny papers". Oooh, I'm cringing right now. Can I get them to stop? No.
Remember pancakes? The x, it vibrates? I for one, welcome our new x overlords? All had their day in the sun, and have all but vanished. Every so often someone suggests waffles, but that's about it. So it will be with your nemesis. However, something new will come along, and be beat into the dirt well past the point of toleration. For some, it's FPP or [MI].... that's a little different, because the object of annoyance is a cute abbreviation and not a little joke. I don't know of anyone ever getting anyone to quit this kind of thing by complaining about it here.
So: try to ignore it. Maybe have a few drinks.
posted by crunchburger at 6:19 AM on March 23, 2004
Remember pancakes? The x, it vibrates? I for one, welcome our new x overlords? All had their day in the sun, and have all but vanished. Every so often someone suggests waffles, but that's about it. So it will be with your nemesis. However, something new will come along, and be beat into the dirt well past the point of toleration. For some, it's FPP or [MI].... that's a little different, because the object of annoyance is a cute abbreviation and not a little joke. I don't know of anyone ever getting anyone to quit this kind of thing by complaining about it here.
So: try to ignore it. Maybe have a few drinks.
posted by crunchburger at 6:19 AM on March 23, 2004
I agree with amberglow, the ___filter trend makes the site far more readable, especially in the absence of a more formal category structure.
posted by mhaw at 6:36 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by mhaw at 6:36 AM on March 23, 2004
Thankfully, I'm not so naive that I think this post will stop people from using xFilter. And I'm against censorship, so I would oppose any rule that forbid people to post their jokes, lame or otherwise. I was just stating my annoyance and wondering if others also felt annoyed or if I was the only fish in the pond.
There is a small good that can come of threads like this (for those who care about language and want to rid it of cliches). We all use cliches. I try really hard not to, but I fail. I still use them. I get lazy. I forget. So I need to be reminded from time-to-time. Sometimes I need someone to say, "you know that phrase you use all the time? Well, it's really lost its meaning." Which might not have occurred to me.
So, for those people who love xFilter, of course this thread won't stop them from writing it (nor should it).
For those people who don't really care about tiny nuances of language, this thread will just seem like pointless complaining.
But for those who try to un-trite themselves, hopefully it will give them a moment's pause.
Cliche-killing is a war that must be fought over-and-over. The war itself will never be won, but we can win individual battles.
posted by grumblebee at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2004
There is a small good that can come of threads like this (for those who care about language and want to rid it of cliches). We all use cliches. I try really hard not to, but I fail. I still use them. I get lazy. I forget. So I need to be reminded from time-to-time. Sometimes I need someone to say, "you know that phrase you use all the time? Well, it's really lost its meaning." Which might not have occurred to me.
So, for those people who love xFilter, of course this thread won't stop them from writing it (nor should it).
For those people who don't really care about tiny nuances of language, this thread will just seem like pointless complaining.
But for those who try to un-trite themselves, hopefully it will give them a moment's pause.
Cliche-killing is a war that must be fought over-and-over. The war itself will never be won, but we can win individual battles.
posted by grumblebee at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2004
mhaw, in essence I agree with you. My point is different (and some would say unimportant):
Given these two options--
"CookingFilter: where kind of butter should I use...?"
and
"Cooking: what kind of butter should I use...?"
Why use the former?
posted by grumblebee at 6:57 AM on March 23, 2004
Given these two options--
"CookingFilter: where kind of butter should I use...?"
and
"Cooking: what kind of butter should I use...?"
Why use the former?
posted by grumblebee at 6:57 AM on March 23, 2004
GrumbleBee. theres no real difference between ...filter and ... question. I guess the filter postfix was added because it was the first acceptable expression I thought of. That's interesting in itself, because the filter postfix is a linguistic construct that only applies to MetaFilter. Subconciously, I may have been trying to fit in.
re: the "pre-fabricated" henhouse.
This is interesting in itself. Certain languages are built on stock phrases. (Danish being the example I've been told about). I don't know if this sort of structure has been created for any purpose (keeping outsiders from understanding "deep" context), but it would be interesting to know which areas in the world are more prone to use them. I live in an area rife with local Scandanavian words (Lake = Play, etc), so I'm wondering if pre-fabricated structures are built into my psyche.
I also think that the language that you use affects the way that you think, express and problem solve, and there has to be variety of language / speech patterns for mankind to be able to solve all the different types of problem that arise.
posted by seanyboy at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2004
re: the "pre-fabricated" henhouse.
This is interesting in itself. Certain languages are built on stock phrases. (Danish being the example I've been told about). I don't know if this sort of structure has been created for any purpose (keeping outsiders from understanding "deep" context), but it would be interesting to know which areas in the world are more prone to use them. I live in an area rife with local Scandanavian words (Lake = Play, etc), so I'm wondering if pre-fabricated structures are built into my psyche.
I also think that the language that you use affects the way that you think, express and problem solve, and there has to be variety of language / speech patterns for mankind to be able to solve all the different types of problem that arise.
posted by seanyboy at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2004
A cliche is just a phrase that hasn't yet become a word.
posted by seanyboy at 7:12 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by seanyboy at 7:12 AM on March 23, 2004
MetaTalk - Bitch Bitch Whine
posted by Blue Stone at 7:20 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by Blue Stone at 7:20 AM on March 23, 2004
just to reiterate, we did this discussion a year ago, and I think we can safely say it has had no impact since, despite the fact that Matt expresses his dislike for it at the beginning of the thread.
And whilst I'm in posting mood, I'd just like to say that I really *hate* people who post "get over it" or "quit bitching" to Metatalk threads.
posted by johnny novak at 8:17 AM on March 23, 2004
And whilst I'm in posting mood, I'd just like to say that I really *hate* people who post "get over it" or "quit bitching" to Metatalk threads.
posted by johnny novak at 8:17 AM on March 23, 2004
You know what I hate? Having to iron my work clothes every morning. I'd like to call for a moratorium on that.
I also hate how all the good cereal is bad for me. Sometimes I want to have a bowl of Freakies mixed with Captain Crunch, you know? God I hate that.
I also hate people who hate people who post "get over it" or "quit bitching" to Metatalk threads.
really, i love everyone . . .
posted by tr33hggr at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2004
I also hate how all the good cereal is bad for me. Sometimes I want to have a bowl of Freakies mixed with Captain Crunch, you know? God I hate that.
I also hate people who hate people who post "get over it" or "quit bitching" to Metatalk threads.
really, i love everyone . . .
posted by tr33hggr at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2004
GREAT post, seanyboy.
I wish I knew more Scandinavian languages. On the one hand, we can say that cliche's shouldn't be used because they are phrases that once had sharp meanings but no longer do (due to overuse).
But you're right, you could say the same thing about most words. For instance, the word "awful" originally meant "filled will awe." It has since lost that meaning. But I would never suggest that we stop using it.
There's a point at which words completely lose their meaning. They stop being hieroglyphs and become arbitrary. Yes, "awful" now means "terrible," but that's an arbitrary association. We could decide that "glagboth" means terrible and use it in place of "awful."
But I think there's a point that a phrase goes through, during it's lifetime, between the time that it's sharp and the time that it's "a word," in which it tends to be dull and overused.
That's when it's best avoided.
So I'd be interested to know if in Danish there's a similar concept to the cliche. Are all phrases considered to be equal -- the basic building blocks of the language? Or are some considered more expressive than others?
I DO think there's a disturbing trend (which seems to be growing -- or maybe I'm just noticing it more) to construct almost ALL of one's speech out of pre-fabricated henhouses.
In other words, one's bad-of-tricks doesn't include sharp nouns, verbs and adjectives. Instead, it's full of xFilter, "I for one welcome x as our new overlords," "pancakes," "talk to the hand," "it's my way or the highway," "doh!", etc.
Then the communication game becomes less about original expression and more about being the first person to toss "pancakes" on the table at an appropriate point in the discussion.
posted by grumblebee at 9:52 AM on March 23, 2004
I wish I knew more Scandinavian languages. On the one hand, we can say that cliche's shouldn't be used because they are phrases that once had sharp meanings but no longer do (due to overuse).
But you're right, you could say the same thing about most words. For instance, the word "awful" originally meant "filled will awe." It has since lost that meaning. But I would never suggest that we stop using it.
There's a point at which words completely lose their meaning. They stop being hieroglyphs and become arbitrary. Yes, "awful" now means "terrible," but that's an arbitrary association. We could decide that "glagboth" means terrible and use it in place of "awful."
But I think there's a point that a phrase goes through, during it's lifetime, between the time that it's sharp and the time that it's "a word," in which it tends to be dull and overused.
That's when it's best avoided.
So I'd be interested to know if in Danish there's a similar concept to the cliche. Are all phrases considered to be equal -- the basic building blocks of the language? Or are some considered more expressive than others?
I DO think there's a disturbing trend (which seems to be growing -- or maybe I'm just noticing it more) to construct almost ALL of one's speech out of pre-fabricated henhouses.
In other words, one's bad-of-tricks doesn't include sharp nouns, verbs and adjectives. Instead, it's full of xFilter, "I for one welcome x as our new overlords," "pancakes," "talk to the hand," "it's my way or the highway," "doh!", etc.
Then the communication game becomes less about original expression and more about being the first person to toss "pancakes" on the table at an appropriate point in the discussion.
posted by grumblebee at 9:52 AM on March 23, 2004
I DO think there's a disturbing trend (which seems to be growing -- or maybe I'm just noticing it more) to construct almost ALL of one's speech out of pre-fabricated henhouses.
It's a sort of grooming behavior. People use these expressions for phatic reasons or to show they've arrived; belong to an inner circle in their own minds; are going through a stage in their evolution as members. No feelings are injured in the production of this badinage, no honor besmirched, no ill-willed clairovoyant declarations of another member's state of mind uttered nor any character assassination is made, generally speaking. So as a big deal, it rather lacks merit.
posted by y2karl at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2004
It's a sort of grooming behavior. People use these expressions for phatic reasons or to show they've arrived; belong to an inner circle in their own minds; are going through a stage in their evolution as members. No feelings are injured in the production of this badinage, no honor besmirched, no ill-willed clairovoyant declarations of another member's state of mind uttered nor any character assassination is made, generally speaking. So as a big deal, it rather lacks merit.
posted by y2karl at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2004
People use these expressions for phatic reasons or to show they've arrived...
"At last! I am a MEFITE! I HAVE ARRIVED!"
LOL!
Sounds a little implausible to me. Maybe people are trying to condense information, without realizing they are being trite in (some) other people's eyes.
Such as, hypothetically:
BoozeFilter as used by the poster of yet another booze thread =
"I know we have lots of threads on this, but I'm posting another, 'cuz it's popular."
BoozeFilter as used by an accusing comment-er =
"Oh, Gawd, not another of these damn booze threads!"
Isn't it a little vain to accuse people of wanting to "arrive" in a club of which you are already a (de facto cool) member?
Actually, it sounds fairly gentle the way you say it, Y2K. It sounds worse further up the page. But still...
It's a useful shorthand, but when someone uses it to make a lame joke or be one of the Cool Kids, it grates, badly. Probably not going to stop anytime soon, though, just the like 'FPP' and '[MI]' virii.
I've always wondered just what the hell was wrong with 'FPP.' It's shorthand for 'front page post,' and takes up less space, less typing time. I don't use it all that much, but I don't assume that people who do use it are knocking on the door of the clubhouse, begging to be let inside.
posted by Shane at 11:14 AM on March 23, 2004
"At last! I am a MEFITE! I HAVE ARRIVED!"
LOL!
Sounds a little implausible to me. Maybe people are trying to condense information, without realizing they are being trite in (some) other people's eyes.
Such as, hypothetically:
BoozeFilter as used by the poster of yet another booze thread =
"I know we have lots of threads on this, but I'm posting another, 'cuz it's popular."
BoozeFilter as used by an accusing comment-er =
"Oh, Gawd, not another of these damn booze threads!"
Isn't it a little vain to accuse people of wanting to "arrive" in a club of which you are already a (de facto cool) member?
Actually, it sounds fairly gentle the way you say it, Y2K. It sounds worse further up the page. But still...
It's a useful shorthand, but when someone uses it to make a lame joke or be one of the Cool Kids, it grates, badly. Probably not going to stop anytime soon, though, just the like 'FPP' and '[MI]' virii.
I've always wondered just what the hell was wrong with 'FPP.' It's shorthand for 'front page post,' and takes up less space, less typing time. I don't use it all that much, but I don't assume that people who do use it are knocking on the door of the clubhouse, begging to be let inside.
posted by Shane at 11:14 AM on March 23, 2004
The problem is FPP is that new people have no idea what it means, and there's nothing to anywhere that explains it to them.
posted by grumblebee at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by grumblebee at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2004
The use of a pre- or post-fix modifier to adjucate a content bias in favor of a particular semantic class (say, "News" or "Meta") implicitly maps the set of such semantic classes to a linear ordering. While this is interesting for its invitation to apply Zorn's Lemma to a dialectic landscape, it is a reductionist sham that will reduce MetaFilter to the pallid formless ephemera that clogs this cenotaph we call the internet.
posted by freebird at 11:48 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by freebird at 11:48 AM on March 23, 2004
I just would like to take this opportunity to reassert that the day Miguel came to MetaFilter is the day Metafilter died.
posted by crunchland at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2004
posted by crunchland at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2004
One member can kill Meta-Filter?
posted by thomcatspike at 12:19 PM on March 23, 2004
posted by thomcatspike at 12:19 PM on March 23, 2004
The problem is FPP is that new people have no idea what it means, and there's nothing to anywhere that explains it to them.
Hmm. Okay. You're right, if that's the case. We don't want MeFi terms to reinforce that "clubhouse" attitude, eh?
The use of a pre- or post-fix modifier to adjucate a content bias in favor of a particular semantic class (say, "News" or "Meta") implicitly maps the set of such semantic classes to a linear ordering. While this is interesting for its invitation to apply Zorn's Lemma to a dialectic landscape, it is a reductionist sham that will reduce MetaFilter to the pallid formless ephemera that clogs this cenotaph we call the internet.
"Hmm. Okay," again, but with a different inflection.
posted by Shane at 12:21 PM on March 23, 2004
Hmm. Okay. You're right, if that's the case. We don't want MeFi terms to reinforce that "clubhouse" attitude, eh?
The use of a pre- or post-fix modifier to adjucate a content bias in favor of a particular semantic class (say, "News" or "Meta") implicitly maps the set of such semantic classes to a linear ordering. While this is interesting for its invitation to apply Zorn's Lemma to a dialectic landscape, it is a reductionist sham that will reduce MetaFilter to the pallid formless ephemera that clogs this cenotaph we call the internet.
"Hmm. Okay," again, but with a different inflection.
posted by Shane at 12:21 PM on March 23, 2004
"The use of a pre- or post-fix modifier to adjucate a content bias in favor of a particular semantic class (say, "News" or "Meta") implicitly maps the set of such semantic classes to a linear ordering. While this is interesting for its invitation to apply Zorn's Lemma to a dialectic landscape, it is a reductionist sham that will reduce MetaFilter to the pallid formless ephemera that clogs this cenotaph we call the internet."
You use your tongue purtier than a twenty-dollar whore.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:27 PM on March 23, 2004
You use your tongue purtier than a twenty-dollar whore.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:27 PM on March 23, 2004
The problem is FPP is that new people have no idea what it means, and there's nothing to anywhere that explains it to them.
FPPs may be better tagged within a site having multiple pages or categories. correct or wrong?
Also, a problem, calling posts a "FPP", is it does not stay one. They move off the page after more FPPs are posted.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2004
FPPs may be better tagged within a site having multiple pages or categories. correct or wrong?
Also, a problem, calling posts a "FPP", is it does not stay one. They move off the page after more FPPs are posted.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2004
The problem is FPP is that new people have no idea what it means, and there's nothing to anywhere that explains it to them.Yet, we all figured out what it means, proving once again our superiority over newbies. ;-P
posted by mischief at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2004
I just would like to take this opportunity to reassert that the day Miguel came to MetaFilter is the day Metafilter died.
and it dies a little more inside each time you remind us.
posted by quonsar at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2004
and it dies a little more inside each time you remind us.
posted by quonsar at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2004
... but, above all, more ignorant of the world
There are people more ignorant of the world than Americans? Wonders will never cease.
... the day Miguel came to MetaFilter is the day Metafilter died.
Everything and everyone dies a little each day, regardless of who or what is involved in it. It may be that, in your mind, the day Miguel came here was the first time you noticed that things had changed from the "good old days", but I don't think that Miguel on his own is responsible for any decline in the standards of the community - the way the community itself has embraced him yet shunned others shows that the evolution of the community is heading in the direction that the community wants it to (for better or for worse is the real question).
posted by dg at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2004
There are people more ignorant of the world than Americans? Wonders will never cease.
... the day Miguel came to MetaFilter is the day Metafilter died.
Everything and everyone dies a little each day, regardless of who or what is involved in it. It may be that, in your mind, the day Miguel came here was the first time you noticed that things had changed from the "good old days", but I don't think that Miguel on his own is responsible for any decline in the standards of the community - the way the community itself has embraced him yet shunned others shows that the evolution of the community is heading in the direction that the community wants it to (for better or for worse is the real question).
posted by dg at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2004
Yet, we all figured out what it means, proving once again our superiority over newbies. ;-P
Hard finding a post that moved off the page when given the description, FPP. Add, "post" when refering to a member's comment in a thread. Can be like trying to: "find the needle in the hay stack.":)
posted by thomcatspike at 2:31 PM on March 23, 2004
Hard finding a post that moved off the page when given the description, FPP. Add, "post" when refering to a member's comment in a thread. Can be like trying to: "find the needle in the hay stack.":)
posted by thomcatspike at 2:31 PM on March 23, 2004
MetaWhinge.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:52 PM on March 23, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 2:52 PM on March 23, 2004
and it dies [...] inside [...] you [...].
Cenotaph-clogging, pallid, formless ephemera, I tell you!
posted by freebird at 2:59 PM on March 23, 2004
Cenotaph-clogging, pallid, formless ephemera, I tell you!
posted by freebird at 2:59 PM on March 23, 2004
freebird, lay off the Reader's Digest vocab lessons, and stick with the condensed books. You'll be happier, really ...
;-)
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2004
;-)
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2004
Metafilter: This ***filter thing
Actually wouldn't mind having a bumper sticker of that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on March 23, 2004
Actually wouldn't mind having a bumper sticker of that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:40 PM on March 23, 2004
stick with the condensed books. You'll be happier, really
Those working out pretty well for you? I found them a bit too hard. I actually just have a copy of "Big Words for Dummies" and randomly select pages. Luckily enough I seem to end up with words like "cenotaph" that are perfectly suited to endless ridiculous metawankery about whether MetaFilter is dead or just dying. God help me in a thread about something real though.
Are there like Cliff's Notes for the Condensed Versions? Maybe that would be OK.
posted by freebird at 4:06 PM on March 23, 2004
Those working out pretty well for you? I found them a bit too hard. I actually just have a copy of "Big Words for Dummies" and randomly select pages. Luckily enough I seem to end up with words like "cenotaph" that are perfectly suited to endless ridiculous metawankery about whether MetaFilter is dead or just dying. God help me in a thread about something real though.
Are there like Cliff's Notes for the Condensed Versions? Maybe that would be OK.
posted by freebird at 4:06 PM on March 23, 2004
I also think that the language that you use affects the way that you think, express and problem solve, and there has to be variety of language / speech patterns for mankind to be able to solve all the different types of problem that arise.
For those with a taste for this sort of thing, I wrote (with vanishingly little authority, mind you) at some length about it while back.
*looks over his shoulder for the languagehat missile of linguistic justice*
I guess my main point is, if you're capable of writing something really funny, by all means write it. But why just toss in someone else's gag that was once funny in a different context. You don't HAVE to try to be funny.
I love you. (Shit, was that funny or not?)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:28 PM on March 23, 2004
For those with a taste for this sort of thing, I wrote (with vanishingly little authority, mind you) at some length about it while back.
*looks over his shoulder for the languagehat missile of linguistic justice*
I guess my main point is, if you're capable of writing something really funny, by all means write it. But why just toss in someone else's gag that was once funny in a different context. You don't HAVE to try to be funny.
I love you. (Shit, was that funny or not?)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:28 PM on March 23, 2004
You don't HAVE to try to be funny.
This is a baldfaced LIE promoted by the MAN. You are in fact OBLIGATED to try and be funny, and a big spreadsheet is being kept tracking your efforts.
posted by freebird at 4:38 PM on March 23, 2004
This is a baldfaced LIE promoted by the MAN. You are in fact OBLIGATED to try and be funny, and a big spreadsheet is being kept tracking your efforts.
posted by freebird at 4:38 PM on March 23, 2004
*looks over his shoulder for the languagehat missile of linguistic justice*
*rummages in the languagehat Bag O' Tricks for missile, realizes he used up the entire supply on Dr. Language, heads off to Bechtel to order a gross of replacement missiles*
posted by languagehat at 5:09 PM on March 23, 2004
*rummages in the languagehat Bag O' Tricks for missile, realizes he used up the entire supply on Dr. Language, heads off to Bechtel to order a gross of replacement missiles*
posted by languagehat at 5:09 PM on March 23, 2004
I just would like to take this opportunity to reassert that the day Miguel came to MetaFilter is the day Metafilter died.
And only you, crunchland, with your winning way with words, can bring it to life again - if only you could get rid of your Stockholm-syndrome Miguel obsession.
For I'm already married, I'm afraid. I was before I met you so don't blame yourself. Sooner or later you're going to have to deal with this fact, my dear croustillant. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:45 PM on March 23, 2004
And only you, crunchland, with your winning way with words, can bring it to life again - if only you could get rid of your Stockholm-syndrome Miguel obsession.
For I'm already married, I'm afraid. I was before I met you so don't blame yourself. Sooner or later you're going to have to deal with this fact, my dear croustillant. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:45 PM on March 23, 2004
get rid of your Stockholm-syndrome Miguel obsession.
Great come-back! See, the thing I do admire about you, Migs, is that you can't be kept down. You're like a weeble - which is precisely why other Mefites cannot stand you.
O well, as long as you don't purport to speak for a whole continent... keep getting up, old boy.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:58 AM on March 24, 2004
Great come-back! See, the thing I do admire about you, Migs, is that you can't be kept down. You're like a weeble - which is precisely why other Mefites cannot stand you.
O well, as long as you don't purport to speak for a whole continent... keep getting up, old boy.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:58 AM on March 24, 2004
Wendell, after reading that lengthy and important discussion, your comment put it all in perspective and provided a welcome laugh. So *filter can still be funny, at least for some.
On the other hand, I always have been a bigger fan of humor by repetition than most. Like that "director? I don't even know her!" joke. That was still funny to me for a long time after anyone around me found it so, I think.
posted by yoz420 at 5:29 AM on March 24, 2004
On the other hand, I always have been a bigger fan of humor by repetition than most. Like that "director? I don't even know her!" joke. That was still funny to me for a long time after anyone around me found it so, I think.
posted by yoz420 at 5:29 AM on March 24, 2004
Pretty late to this thread, but up untill now, I had NO idea that *filter was a joke...I thought stuff like NewsFilter was just a way to say, "Hey, we're filtering news. Now stop it before I MeTa your ass!"
While we're grieving, though, does AxMe annoy anybody else? I always read it as "Axe Me" after that axe-grinding thread a few weeks ago.
posted by jmd82 at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2004
While we're grieving, though, does AxMe annoy anybody else? I always read it as "Axe Me" after that axe-grinding thread a few weeks ago.
posted by jmd82 at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2004
TirednessFilter
CoffeeFilter ...
WhoopeeFilter!
posted by feelinglistless at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2004
CoffeeFilter ...
WhoopeeFilter!
posted by feelinglistless at 2:13 PM on March 24, 2004
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posted by mischief at 7:28 PM on March 22, 2004