Unban Keyser Soze December 29, 2004 1:35 PM   Subscribe

Unban Keyser please. (more inside)
posted by amberglow to Etiquette/Policy at 1:35 PM (227 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

That guy has done enough questionable things. It is only a matter of time, if he were unbanned, before he does something else. We have 18000 members. Why do we need one more immature kid?
posted by Seth at 1:38 PM on December 29, 2004


from his email: After this post I made another post in the same thread, stating "Oh yeah, I almost forgot". The "f" was a link to goatse and the rest was a link to another car sticker website. After that I noticed I couldn't post, then when I logged out I couldn't log back in. Fortunately my laptop was still connected and it would let me get into my settings. From there, I wrote a short memoir of what Mefi meant to me which wasn't well written anyways. Basically, Matt simply doesn't trust me anymore and I don't blame him. I guess Goatse.cx is high treason, but bitter snarks are not. Oh well.

We're good for him, and he hasn't been intentionally an asshole or offensive or snarky, unlike many others who are still here. Please unban him.
posted by amberglow at 1:39 PM on December 29, 2004


i... agree with seth.

does that mean i'm wrong or that i shouldn't have had paint thinner in my corn flakes when i ran out of milk?

*re-thinks his position on metafilter and, indeed, the world*

We're good for him, and he hasn't been intentionally an asshole or offensive or snarky, unlike many others who are still here. Please unban him.

i'm sorry, but why should we babysit him every time he gets in trouble masturbating to the anarchist cook book? besides, why do we want these juvenile "ha ha--i linked to goatse.cx in the title bar of an unrelated post!" nonsense going on? it's a pattern of abuse with this kid. he can at least take a couple weeks off.
posted by The God Complex at 1:41 PM on December 29, 2004


I say we unban him, but only if he promises to use correct punctuation.
posted by greasy_skillet at 1:41 PM on December 29, 2004


I guess Goatse.cx is high treason, but bitter snarks are not. Oh well.

When is goatse.cx not a bad idea? I say give'em a week grounding then let him out.
posted by me3dia at 1:42 PM on December 29, 2004


Vacations are good for the soul.
posted by ColdChef at 1:42 PM on December 29, 2004


What the? If he wants to come back, let him spend $5 on a new membership and not be such a stupid goatseing fuck next time.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:44 PM on December 29, 2004


We're a community, and he's part of it--like we all are. Many of us have followed his travails and big decisions about life, and feel we've played a small part in all of it--he really is like our collective kid brother.

We're good for him. And i've yet to see any real harm caused by him, unlike the real harm and destructiveness and negativity caused by others.
posted by amberglow at 1:47 PM on December 29, 2004


I guess Goatse.cx is high treason, but bitter snarks are not. Oh well.

Red herring.

Goatse is high treason, and you knew it, but linked repeatedly anyway. I think that is worthy of a ban.

Bitter snarks may or may not be damaging to Metafilter, but they are definitely not pertinent to your own offense.
posted by rafter at 1:48 PM on December 29, 2004


I guess Goatse.cx is high treason, but bitter snarks are not. Oh well.

He had me up until that. Until he can understand why, in the grown up world where people have jobs and mortgages, goatse isn't harmless fun, he shouldn't be here.

let him spend $5 on a new membership

That's no solution. If matt isn't banning people by ip (which I believe he is), he should be.
posted by jpoulos at 1:51 PM on December 29, 2004


Amber: call me a susicious bastard, but I've long believed that Keyser sold his account to the highest bidder way back when he threatened to do so. The interests and writing displayed in the last several months (his farewell speech is a good example) seems to me to be distinctly different than what came before.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:53 PM on December 29, 2004


We're good for him. And i've yet to see any real harm caused by him, unlike the real harm and destructiveness and negativity caused by others.

Very few people get banned for good anymore and I'm sure Keyser won't be one of them. Matt is on vacation. Keyser linked to goatse.cx as part of a larger link, on purpose, four days after being called in to MeTa for doing a very similar thing. If Keyser requires this much babysitting, he probably also needs a timeout while the cat's away. I'm sure he'll be back.
posted by jessamyn at 1:58 PM on December 29, 2004


We're a community, and he's part of it--like we all are.

And as a member of that community for more than two years, he knew that linking to goatse is an offense punishable by banning.

The fact that someone is a child in need of babysitting is not a very compelling reason for allowing them back into a community.
posted by Danelope at 1:59 PM on December 29, 2004


I think that Keyser is, how to say it, not himself anymore. Just a suspicion. But if not, sorry bro.

WHAT
THE
FUCK
GOATSE.CX?
posted by zpousman at 2:03 PM on December 29, 2004


EB - I totally agree. I really doubt this is the same Keyser that got himself into all those hilarious mishaps over the years.
posted by loquax at 2:05 PM on December 29, 2004


jpoulos, fair enough on the "banning by IP" but the-goatse-er-formerly-known-as-Keyser always has the option to, say, buy a new membership and post from the public library.

If the "Keyser" account has been commandeered by an asshole, the original Keyser can straighten this out with Matt. If the original Keyser sold his/her account to an asshole, then the sooner we ban the asshole, the better.

Either way, banning the asshole seems like a fine decision to me.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:07 PM on December 29, 2004


We should do it just because amberglow said so. If amberglow believes in Keyser well then, dammit, I do too.
posted by nixerman at 2:07 PM on December 29, 2004


Ban him, and decapitate his daughter.
posted by nicwolff at 2:11 PM on December 29, 2004


Weren't a lot of random people using the KS account to fuck around? Certainly seems that way from the account's recent history of comments.
posted by xmutex at 2:14 PM on December 29, 2004


i just sat out a week for snarking in the vicinity of virginity. kaiser's hose doesn't need an advocate ambie, he can handle a timeout, it's an occupational hazard. you got email from him? methinks you've been had my friend, and your heartstrings have been calculatingly and deliberately twanged.
posted by quonsar at 2:16 PM on December 29, 2004


I've long suspected that myself.
posted by crunchland at 2:18 PM on December 29, 2004


er, that Keyser has suffered from M.P.D., that is... and some of the M.P.'s have M.P.'s.
posted by crunchland at 2:20 PM on December 29, 2004


Funny thing: look at all the AskMe's KS has posted over the last year or two: many are computer related, and there are many different systems mentioned there (XP pro/Imac os 9, for example). Not bad for a poor 20 year old, hoping to get into the Forces with not so hot grades. Not exactly mutually exclusive, but maybe there has been a login name sale - self-predicted, and in keeping with KS's self-declared low income.

I think she (confirmed in a recent post) is not strong on impulse control. A Mefi time out won't harm. A confirmation of original id would be doubly useful, to mathowie.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:26 PM on December 29, 2004


I agree with everything jpoulos wrote.
posted by Arch Stanton at 2:36 PM on December 29, 2004


Also, until October of this year Keyser was a resident of Oregon, but now a St. Paul, Minnesota zip code is listed in the profile. I know people move, but...
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:39 PM on December 29, 2004


dash_slot-: She? Really?
posted by obloquy at 2:41 PM on December 29, 2004


This is like the end of that one movie...
posted by greasy_skillet at 2:43 PM on December 29, 2004


Forget about Keyser Soze; I want to know whether mathowie bans by IP. My guess is that he doesn't, at least not usually. There'd be too many problems with multiple people who access the site through proxy servers or the banee accessing from multiple machines.

quonsar, you've been banned more than anyone. What do you think?
posted by timeistight at 2:43 PM on December 29, 2004


I guess Goatse.cx is high treason, but bitter snarks are not. Oh well.

I'm with jpoulos. I was with KS until that. Banination for-evar!
posted by BradNelson at 2:45 PM on December 29, 2004


Have you ever noticed that you can stop watching a soap opera for a couple months and when you return, you can still follow the story line? ;-P
posted by mischief at 2:45 PM on December 29, 2004


quonsar, you've been banned more than anyone. What do you think?

i think you should be banned for failing to read and comprehend. :-)
posted by quonsar at 2:47 PM on December 29, 2004


I meant about whether Matt bans by IP, not about whether KS should or shouldn't be banned.
posted by timeistight at 2:50 PM on December 29, 2004


I really don't want to reduce KS to a stereotype, because I really do believe everyone's got their own story, but anyone who's dealt with troubled adolescents has seen this a million times--a young man or woman who's smart enough to know what they're doing wrong, self-aware enough to write about it movingly, but convinced enough of their pessimistic view of the world that they will make you punish them, just to "prove" that "your love has limits".

I'm not trivializing it, but any parent or teacher can attest that it's just a given when you open up to someone who's going through that phase in their life. They're going to make you punish them, to prove that they really are alienated and misunderstood. (After all, if your favorite teacher puts you in detention, adults really must _not_ understand you.)

The only thing you can do is play along--follow through on the punishment, and then open up again. I think KS has contributed a lot to the site, and I thought the "good-bye" essay was pretty interesting, but "goatse"? Puh-leeze. Just wave a flag saying "I need you to ban me now!"
posted by LairBob at 3:00 PM on December 29, 2004


We should do it just because amberglow said so. If amberglow believes in Keyser well then, dammit, I do too.

Funny, Amberglow has the same effect on me...

Hurray for Amberglow!
posted by sic at 3:02 PM on December 29, 2004


"Funny, Amberglow has the same effect on me..."

That's because Amberglow is a damn nice person and worth emulating and taking counsel from. However, in this case he's probably mistaken.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:05 PM on December 29, 2004


amberglow, I would love to agree with you, if only to disagree once more with Seth, but I can't. The holder of that account, whomever it might be, didn't just break a little rule. They broke a big one, the likes of which is comparable to screaming "Fire" in a crowded theater (the horror, the death ... oh the humanity!). And the argument to let little Keyser back into the neighborhood because we knew he/she was capable of this, but we really think we might help in the future is sadly unconvincing.

We're good for him, and he hasn't been intentionally an asshole or offensive or snarky, unlike many others who are still here.

I'm sorry, but posting the gape o' anus is exactly being an offensive asshole. If it makes it any better (though I'm unsure that it does), I too believe that Keyser will be back, hopefully wiser. And I agree that there are several here, packing giant chips on their shoulders (especially among some of the newbees), who simply live to comment, snark, take offense and offend. But forgiving one based on the crimes of others is hardly a slope I think most of us wish to traverse.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:12 PM on December 29, 2004


If amberglow believes in Keyser well then, dammit, I do too.

I was going to agree, especially since there are so many FAR more annoying bastards around here than Keyser, but this notion that Keyser isn't really Keyser anymore gives me pause. (There is no way the original Keyser was a girl.)
I'll let you guys fight it out.
posted by CunningLinguist at 3:17 PM on December 29, 2004


Pfft. It's just a gaping asshole people. There's millions of those on MeFi everyday. Get a grip.
posted by keswick at 3:18 PM on December 29, 2004


That guy has done enough questionable things. It is only a matter of time, if he were unbanned, before he does something else. We have 18000 members. Why do we need one more immature kid?

Agreeing with Seth, god help me.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:19 PM on December 29, 2004


I prefer to think a) that Seth is agreeing with me, and b) that even the stopped clock is right twice a day.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:21 PM on December 29, 2004


I just don't know.
posted by interrobang at 3:22 PM on December 29, 2004


I kind of like Keyser and hope that the banning will not be permanent - a month or so should suffice - with permanent, double secret probation thereafter. Goatse is a pretty unpardonable sin, but I think you can just tell that some people don't mean evil and they deserve a second chance, even for really stupid and bad behavior. This applies to Keyser, at least the Keyser of a year ago. Nevertheless, I too have some misgivings as to whether the current poster is the same as the old.
posted by caddis at 3:24 PM on December 29, 2004


obloquy:
Keyser Soze's Profile
Location: USA
Zip: 55108
Occupation: steel mill
Gender: girl

Not definitive, but supporting evidence.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:27 PM on December 29, 2004


Why do we need one more immature kid?

I believe a fair share of otherwise loyal, right-headed and koolaid-swilling Mefites secretly covet the hijinx generated by our immature kids. Sure, it threatens the level of discourse and hampers attempts at an atmosphere of civility; and sure, explicitly encouraging it only draws on the burning flames of the Fark Inferno. But some of us sit back and quietly hope that, unbidden, such ridiculousness will present itself occasionally anwyay, because goddamn if it's not the best soap opera that ever there was.
posted by cortex at 3:29 PM on December 29, 2004


Contrary evidence.
posted by jeffmshaw at 3:29 PM on December 29, 2004


Okay, then. Keyzer Soze's profile currently says KS is a girl, but the AskMeFi of November 2004 clearly states that KS is a boy.

Can we just ban the username Keyzer Soze, which is obviously inspiring this kind of pointless mindfuck?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:35 PM on December 29, 2004


MetaFilter: Millions of Gaping Assholes, Every Day.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:38 PM on December 29, 2004


We're good for him. And i've yet to see any real harm caused by him, unlike the real harm and destructiveness and negativity caused by others.

Did minya really cut off his hand? Or do you consider hurt feelings "real harm?"
posted by trharlan at 3:42 PM on December 29, 2004


BTW, Keyser Soze is a girl, right?
posted by dash_slot- at 5:08 AM PST on December 26


Dash Slot is correct, so what I don't understand is why I get called a butthole surfer. And mildly retarded. And a slew of other insults....
posted by Keyser Soze at 5:34 AM PST on December 26


I may have been misled: if so, it is interesting that KS is not at all bothered about being attributed as a female, unusual in an adolescent male, I'd say.

It's a side issue: I usually enjoy the posts and comments s/he makes, and hope on return, s/he converts youthful japery into mature snarkship.

As we all have done.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:54 PM on December 29, 2004


I myself see a contradiction here:

amberglow: he hasn't been intentionally an asshole or offensive

putatively Keyzer: The "f" was a link to goatse and the rest was a link to another car sticker website.

amberglow, it looks to me like Keyzer intentionally posted a link to an offensive asshole. How is that not being intentionally an asshole or offensive?
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:54 PM on December 29, 2004


I think we can all find posts in which the person using the nick Keyser Soze claims to be male, and posts in which the person using the nick Keyser Soze claims to be female. For Baal's sake, that very profile page does both.

If Keyser Soze is a person experiencing gender identity dysphoria, Keyser Soze should have found a better way of dealing with it than random acts of goatse.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:57 PM on December 29, 2004


Yeah, let's be careful not to draw the obvious conclusion here: that multiple people us the KS account.
posted by xmutex at 4:01 PM on December 29, 2004


Sorry, I should have used the sarcasm mark.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:04 PM on December 29, 2004


what is commonly called "banning" here actually looks more like an account suspension. when "banned", one can still remain logged in and view the site and even prepare a post, but when you hit preview, the preview page comes back sans comment and without the text box. if you log out while "banned", mefi will inform you that it cannot find your username or password when you try to log in. i think this is accomplished by username, not ip. i did hear a rumor that there have in fact been some outlaws who were banned at the ip level and found themselves redirected elsewhere when trying to view the site, but i cannot confirm such goings on...
posted by quonsar at 4:12 PM on December 29, 2004


How satisfying for a disturbed adolescent (or post adolescent) to attract all this attention. Mission accomplished.
posted by Cranberry at 4:21 PM on December 29, 2004


Thank you kindly, quonsar. That's what I suspected.

If people who are banned can simply pony up another five bucks for a new account, isn't it a little silly to expend so much energy debating this punishment?
posted by timeistight at 4:29 PM on December 29, 2004


What happens in a bannination.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:38 PM on December 29, 2004


Many of us have followed his travails and big decisions about life, and feel we've played a small part in all of it--he really is like our collective kid brother.

Um...okay. Me, I've barely heard of the guy/girl.

I think a timeout is definitely warranted, and that mathowie did the right thing. You breaks the rules, you pays the price. And we have no reason to think that this is anything more than a timeout.
posted by rushmc at 4:38 PM on December 29, 2004


In a lot of ways, I felt Keyser's antics were engaging. Subsequently, it was easy to overlook that ugly run-in with the SA Goons, just as most folks here forgave K's account auction attempt. But inserting a goatse link in a post (following Keyser's "how did that get there" insertion of the same link in the header of a FPP), we're supposed to dutifully shrug and dole out another free pass.

In light of Matt's timeout call, I'm reminded of a line Keyser no doubt would've said here at some point: you want sympathy, go buy a greeting card.
posted by Smart Dalek at 4:42 PM on December 29, 2004


Mission accomplished.

Oh, there are plenty of other disturbed adolescents the gentle hand of MetaFilter might counsel, now that Keyser has been sent off into the world.
posted by Danelope at 4:48 PM on December 29, 2004


I think KS has contributed a lot to the site

Really? What? Look, I was charmed despite myself by the original should-I-join-the-military Keyser, just like everybody else, but I think "contributed a lot" is going way too far. And if (as seems probable) he did in fact give, sell, assign, gift, transfer, or otherwise alienate his MeFi account, he's a fucking twerp who makes the baby Jesus cry and should be banninated till the end of time. If it was "just" posting goatse, then ban him till he graduates from college and/or OCS.

On the plus side, I no longer have to strain my brain trying to think of him as a girl.
posted by languagehat at 4:50 PM on December 29, 2004


OK, so "contributed a lot" could be an overstatement, but my basic point is that he (or she, or whatever) has added something of value. I'm not going to scan through every single comment to dredge up the wheat from the chaff, but I'm sure most people here have read a comment from KS that's basically elicited a "Huh...that was a relatively intelligent comment" or "...an interesting question".

So, yes, it shouldn't be a _surprise_ when someone says something intelligent, but given what we (think) we've already learned about who KS is, and what KS is apparently going through, I've been one of the folks who've mentally cut some slack when it comes to the more puerile stuff.

Nevertheless, that was really a rhetorical counterpoint to my basic position, and I'm in complete agreement with you, languagehat--KS needs to actually get what he openly asked for. Whether it's permanent or temporary depends on the specific circumstances, and I don't know them, myself, but "asking to get banned" should be answered with "getting banned".
posted by LairBob at 5:04 PM on December 29, 2004


The greatest trick he ever pulled...
posted by Pretty_Generic at 5:23 PM on December 29, 2004


Subsequently, it was easy to overlook that ugly run-in with the SA Goons, just as most folks here forgave K's account auction attempt.

It was during this episode -- when the Goons tracked him down and took mock-stalker photos of his mother's house -- that it became clear that KS (the original?) was in fact male. Peter, I believe his name is (was?), if I recall correctly.

I've actually noticed recently that the English skills of whoever may be posting under the Keyser Soze login have increased recently. I had put it down to 'trying harder' but now I wonder...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 PM on December 29, 2004


Maybe it is now his younger brother, or another sibling using his account.. Didn't he have some problem with a house party and the law a while back? About a month before he posted an askMe question about home brewing?
posted by dness2 at 5:37 PM on December 29, 2004


The account called "Keyser Soze" needs banning. Permabanning, in my opinion.

If the person who originally created the account wants a new account and can convince Matt that he/she is going to straighten up and fly right in future, I'm all for he/she getting a new account.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:46 PM on December 29, 2004


him/her getting a new account

Damn you, oblique case!
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:46 PM on December 29, 2004


If you haven't figured it out by now, Keyser Soze is actually Kevin Spacey.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:49 PM on December 29, 2004


Damn you, m_c_d!

*shakes fist*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:51 PM on December 29, 2004


Goatse stopped being offensive a long, long time ago. It is iconic, possibly, but less offensive than many things that make the main page of Drudge or CNN or BBC's pages every day.

I'm new here, but I like laughing. Goatse makes me laugh almost every time I see it, but admittedly so do a lot of really, really childish things.

Now could someone please pull my finger?
posted by docpops at 5:55 PM on December 29, 2004


Goatse makes me laugh almost every time I see it

I doubt that many people's bosses or coworkers would feel the same way. I know mine wouldn't.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:59 PM on December 29, 2004


I like how he quotes Voltaire to defend his being banned for posting a link to a picture of a man displaying his battered rectum.
posted by Hildago at 6:07 PM on December 29, 2004


Only proctologists can get away with staring at a gaping rectum at work.
posted by caddis at 6:16 PM on December 29, 2004


Maybe you shouldn't be surfing MeFi at work then, hmm?
posted by keswick at 6:20 PM on December 29, 2004


Maybe you shouldn't be surfing MeFi at work then, hmm?

This lame argument has been made many times, but suggesting the issue is with an anti-anus workplace is the lamest yet.
posted by yerfatma at 6:24 PM on December 29, 2004


Maybe you shouldn't be surfing MeFi at work then, hmm?

Yeah. I hope I catch you doing this. It would be worth you doing this, just so I could catch you doing this.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:28 PM on December 29, 2004


Posting goatse "by accident" can happen once, and I gave him a pass on that last week. Anyone can do almost anything by accident and I'll believe them. Doing it twice and claiming it's another accidental fuckup? I'd call that lying.

Fool me once and all...
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:30 PM on December 29, 2004


I like how he quotes Voltaire to defend his being banned for posting a link to a picture of a man displaying his battered rectum.

If goatse did not exist...
posted by felix betachat at 6:31 PM on December 29, 2004


Maybe you shouldn't be surfing MeFi at work then, hmm?

Read what I wrote, keswick. I can only assume that by 'you' you mean everyone at Metafilter. You cheeky devil, you.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on December 29, 2004


I'll trade keyser for seth.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:44 PM on December 29, 2004


If Keyser Soze is a person experiencing gender identity dysphoria, Keyser Soze should have found a better way of dealing with it than random acts of goatse.

"Practice Random Acts of Goatse" would be an awesome bumper sticker.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:45 PM on December 29, 2004


Many of us have followed his travails and big decisions about life, and feel we've played a small part in all of it--he really is like our collective kid brother.

I had no idea metafilter was in the gig of child rearing, but if our members are helping he/she/it with decisions about life, god help us all.
posted by justgary at 6:46 PM on December 29, 2004


I'll trade keyser for seth.

But what would you trade Keyser for meth? I think that's a far more realistic question.
posted by yerfatma at 6:50 PM on December 29, 2004


bingo
posted by JohnR at 6:56 PM on December 29, 2004


I was using "you" in the plural sense. But yeah, that was a clumsy sentence. My point still stands.
posted by keswick at 6:59 PM on December 29, 2004


*gives up, pulls own finger*
posted by docpops at 7:05 PM on December 29, 2004


*gives up too, pulls docpop's finger* : <
posted by amberglow at 7:28 PM on December 29, 2004


Battered rectum != Mars bar surprise?
posted by loquacious at 7:35 PM on December 29, 2004


Goatse stopped being offensive a long, long time ago.

Well, that's one opinion. What about the other twenty thousand?

Or as stavros mentioned, the opinions of thousands of bosses & supervisors out there who might make snap judgments upon seeing gaping, battered anus on the screens of their employees?
posted by dhoyt at 7:41 PM on December 29, 2004


I have a little "inside information" that Keyser is indeed a man. trust me.
posted by puke & cry at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2004


^Upon review, I probably could've used a better sentence construction up there...
posted by dhoyt at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2004


Oh for Christ fucking sake...don't derail the rationale for banning with something as specious as safe for work or not. The image in question wasn't even clear enough to be apparent unless you already knew what you were looking at. Goatse or anything else, if you are in a work space where your surfing activity is open to scrutiny and you are browsing anything not work related then you are asking for trouble.

Mmmm...battered anus....with powdered sugar and cider.
posted by docpops at 7:48 PM on December 29, 2004


caddis has a point. I do see a lot of ass at work. It isn't pretty either. Maybe my perspective is skewed, as it were.
posted by docpops at 7:50 PM on December 29, 2004


"Practice Random Acts of Goatse" would be an awesome bumper sticker.

Ask and ye shall receive.

posted by me3dia at 8:09 PM on December 29, 2004


Oh for Christ fucking sake...don't derail the rationale for banning with something as specious as safe for work or not.

'scuse me, but what? He was banned for posting goatse links. Twice. That is the rationale for banning.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:12 PM on December 29, 2004


...and the Goat is most assuredly not safe for whatever, is what I'm sayin'.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:13 PM on December 29, 2004


But what would you trade Keyser for meth? I think that's a far more realistic question.

Actually I bet he could hook me up.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:24 PM on December 29, 2004


I don't really give two farts about Keyser one way or the other, but I would like to take a moment to second guess Matt's hairstyle for him.
I mean, sure, it's neat and all, but is it "today?"
posted by dong_resin at 9:07 PM on December 29, 2004


The simple fact of the matter is that banning people from publicly accessible webforums is functionally impossible on the Internet as we know it, if the party being banned actually gives a goddamn in the slightest.

Between the thousands of open-access anonymous proxies out there and registering a new account, you can get around both IP and account-based bans.

The fact that the (probable) multiple entities known as Keyser aren't back here right now suggests to me that they simply aren't willing to put forth the effort to get back in - in which case I don't care - or that they're smart enough to not announce their return to the ranks of those posting - in which case more power to them.

Matt can't, quite simply, prevent people from posting to his site while signups are still permitted - all he can do is prevent people from establishing continuity between their various personas without consequence.
posted by Ryvar at 9:09 PM on December 29, 2004


While I totally agree that there's a real risk, for some folks, of inadvertently linking to goatse at work, I also think that the image itself is kind of beside the point. There are lots of "edgy" images out there that KS could have linked to, but any of them would have made banning a much tougher call.

And I think _that's_ the point. Keyser didn't link to just some offensive image--he linked to the image that's become shorthand for "Not Safe For Work". Sneaking in goatse links was a well-known sport on Slashdot for many years, and the act of _linking_ to goatse has become much more offensive and annoying than the image itself.

Sneaking in a goatse link is the Intarweb equivalent of flipping off the authorities, and _that's_ what makes the whole thing seem like such a blatant plea for attention, to me. He did it once, which already violated a pretty clearly understood standard, Matt warned him not to, and then he did it _again_.

Like I said...may as well just wear a t-shirt saying "I need your attention, and I need to prove that adults are really just out to punish me."
posted by LairBob at 9:13 PM on December 29, 2004


Anus, please.

And Keyser.
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:17 PM on December 29, 2004


he turned me into a newt. i got better, though.
posted by TomSophieIvy at 9:26 PM on December 29, 2004


For brain dead bunghole of the month! *rips envelope*
keyser soze!
For hyperbole of the month! *rips envelope*
jpoulos !
As a person in the grown-up world with mortgages, a job, employees, kids and pets ks’s act was wrong but jp’s comment was falling down roll on the floor funny.
posted by arse_hat at 9:50 PM on December 29, 2004


LairBob, that's an admirably succinct explanation. The goatse anus has gone beyond anus-ness and become a signifying meta-anus. If it were just about exposure to anus, there's plenty of random anus out there on the internets. Keyser's choice was a deliberate violation of the collective MeFi anus after MeFi made it clear that "no goatse" means "no goatse."

Anus, anus, anus. Just thought I'd type that a few more times.
posted by vetiver at 10:24 PM on December 29, 2004


The simple fact of the matter is that banning people from publicly accessible webforums is functionally impossible on the Internet as we know it, if the party being banned actually gives a goddamn in the slightest.

The point isn't that people who are banned can't get back in (although from this point forward, they'd probably have to use an alternate PayPal account to evade Matt's notice.) The point is that MetaFilter users, their personalities here, and their interactions with other users are defined by their usernames and posting histories. If quonsar came back under another name, he'd be just another jackass; if clavdivs or thomcatspike returned anonymously, they'd be raked over the coals for their supposed illiteracy.

If one truly values their past interaction with the community (and if they're not looking to blank the slate) they would seek to preserve that history. A new username wouldn't provide the same context, and therein lies the disincentive.
posted by Danelope at 10:37 PM on December 29, 2004


The timing of those last three posts couldn't have been better. quonsar must be Danelope.
posted by WolfDaddy at 10:50 PM on December 29, 2004


Also, like some rental car companies, quonsar tries harder. He goes that extra mile in hot pursuit of Greater Assholiness.

Which, as we all know, is next to Assgodliness.

That Cowsecx pic is a nice touch, but a tad off topic.
posted by chicobangs at 10:50 PM on December 29, 2004


BAM!
posted by chicobangs at 10:50 PM on December 29, 2004


Danelope: my point is more that if some teenager has a few hundred to spare because of . . . oh, say, Xmas and he wants to subtly insert Goatse into one FPP every day on the blue - there's simply no way to prevent him from doing so. Even if Matt eventually went full-bore and had all incoming connections port-scanned to detect proxies once per day for each IP (many IRC networks do a portscan for proxies at the beginning of every session) that in no way changes someone's ability to simply purchase a dialup AOL account and sign on with a different IP address (randomly selected from AOL's huge pool which no webmaster on the planet can afford to block although God knows they should) every five minutes.
posted by Ryvar at 10:57 PM on December 29, 2004


This happened before, when the existence of "login" became widely known, and it lasted an hour or two before Matt put an end to it and cleaned up the resulting mess.

What you're failing to grok is the fact that, after catching the first instance/volley, that username would be suspended, and they would have to sign up for a new MetaFilter account (and make their donation using a valid PayPal account, and presumably wait for Matt to activate their username) before being able to post again. How many users from the same PayPal account and the same pool of IP addresses do you think would slip by before the Almighty Tallest caught on?
posted by Danelope at 11:18 PM on December 29, 2004


Danelope: if they're using proxies or AOL, it's not really the same 'pool' of IP addresses (AOL being big enough that Matt can't afford to block all of it).

Secondly, I've heard that it is possible for people to have access to more than one PayPal account. Somehow.
posted by Ryvar at 11:55 PM on December 29, 2004


(That last line should be sarcasm-tagged, btw)
posted by Ryvar at 11:55 PM on December 29, 2004


Sneaking in a goatse link is the Intarweb equivalent of flipping off the authorities, and _that's_ what makes the whole thing seem like such a blatant plea for attention, to me.

I think that's missing the point here. What makes the goatse links so exhausting is the inference that Keyser's really here more for Keyser's sake, not anyone else's. K's like a problem relative (twice removed) who's liable to bring anything home for the next reunion. It could be a rabid cat in a burlap sack, a stolen van from the local power utility, an underage stripper, or a sawed-off shotgun loaded with rock salt, presented as a spice rack. And while a number of us here may feel Keyser could use some help, it's rapidly become clear that we may not be the ones who can ultimately assist this lost lamb. If K truly wants to change, or is content to perpetually pass through the system, K's at a point now where K can do that elsewhere.
posted by Smart Dalek at 11:57 PM on December 29, 2004


Smart Dalek: call me overly faithful when it comes to rational self-interest, but . . . I'm here because Ryvar needs something from this community. I'm not really here for the sake of other people at all - in any way, shape, or form. I disagree with the basic assumption that this is immature behavior at the root - or at the very least I disagree with the premise that maturity is in any way directly related to one's concern for others.

Growing up amidst the type of people that fill the ranks of the current administration, I've met some very mature sociopaths in my time and I think you're conflating two seperate characteristics.
posted by Ryvar at 12:43 AM on December 30, 2004


Good distinction, Ryvar.
posted by The Horn at 1:39 AM on December 30, 2004


Please let not have talk of banning IP addresses. Some of us share an IP with 10K+ college students many of whom find burping their name high art.
posted by Mitheral at 2:45 AM on December 30, 2004


If matt isn't banning people by ip (which I believe he is), he should be.

I agree with Mitheral above; this is a bad idea. Not only do many of us use proxies (or AOL), even those with direct DSL or cable modem can simply reset their modem and get a new IP address (unless you paid extra for static).. so banning by IP is pretty pointless except for short term (hours) bans.
posted by wackybrit at 4:05 AM on December 30, 2004


I wish I had a relative who'd bring to a reunion a stolen van from the utility company or, better yet, an underage stripper (by that you mean a paint-stripper or candy stripper, yes?). That'd be super-duper cool.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:57 AM on December 30, 2004


Posting goatse "by accident" can happen once, and I gave him a pass on that last week. Anyone can do almost anything by accident and I'll believe them. Doing it twice and claiming it's another accidental fuckup? I'd call that lying.

I have no opinion one way or the other on the banning, but I'm failing spectacularly in my attempt to figure out how someone accidentally posts a link to a specific site. Is that like with the infinite number of monkeys banging on keyboards, sooner or later, one of them will post to goatse? Wouldn't the odds favor highly posting to a less inflammatory site? I wish someone would do the math for me. Or we could figure it out empirically. Set up a dummy page and get 20,000 MeFites to fall down on their keyboards and see how many of them end up with links to goatse.

(And, yeah, I'm aware that he could have said that he meant to delete it after preview and hit post by mistake, but that's not an accident, that's a barely controlled barely sub subconscious, coupled with a big fat lie.)
posted by anapestic at 5:03 AM on December 30, 2004


I don't know him as well as many of you guys-- but reading that farewell message, it's blindingly obvious that the person now using the KS username isn't the same one who used to. The language is entirely different. Twerp.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:03 AM on December 30, 2004


It's not a different person.
posted by amberglow at 6:44 AM on December 30, 2004


Not a matter of disbelief, but the usual challenge for unsubstantiated statements: what evidence do you have?
posted by Bugbread at 6:46 AM on December 30, 2004


Trust me on this. I have his word (and yes, it's a him--the userpage info was changed after the SA shit)

You know, people say that as you age, you forget what you went thru when you were younger--the fuckups, the dumb decisions, the mistakes, the whole growing-up thing--I wish people would keep that in mind in this situation. There's very little evidence of that in this thread, and it's sad.

Call me a fool or naive or whatever--I've been where he is, and know the value of this to him (and the value of this to all of us, myself included).

I also believe I know his value--it's more than many of you seem to think. (That's what really gets to me--many of us don't get validation and encouragement or a sense of worth when we're younger and have to develop our own sense of worth and okness, with the help of friends and community. That's been going on here, and the results are evident.)
posted by amberglow at 7:09 AM on December 30, 2004


This is a very cold place sometimes.
posted by amberglow at 7:14 AM on December 30, 2004


amberglow: I'll take your word as some evidence that it's really Keyser, but I'm still skeptical. Convincing Matt that it's really Keyser is the important part, in any case.

However, even if it's the original Keyser, a ban is still in order. He surreptitiously linked to goatse. Twice. In one week. I don't care if Keyser is MeFi's token little brother, he still gets a time-out. I'd be satisfied with a temporary ban of some significant length, but ultimately that's a decision for Matt. You can call this place "cold" all you want, but the central norms of this forum need to be enforced fairly. Keyser doesn't get a pass because he's engaged in endearing hijinx in the past.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:19 AM on December 30, 2004


amberglow, people who do not agree with you on what deserves their warmth are not necessarily "cold".
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:37 AM on December 30, 2004


Nor do I think that "validation and encouragement" are the appropriate response for someone who is "acting out" (to use a phrase I loathe, but can't think of a proper equivalent for at the moment) to 20,000 people by twice posting a link to something that he knows full well that community has declared off-limits.

I think that one does a disservice to anyone, especially a young person trying to negotiate a complicated world, by not insisting that he or she face the appropriate consequences of his or her behavior.

Matt didn't ban Keyser after the first goatse-ing; there was a lot of discussion about how it was offensive and a slap in the face of community standards. Then he did it again, a week later.

To say that it's "cold" to expect Keyser to face the consequences of this behavior like a responsible adult just seems profoundly wrong-headed to me.

If I were Matt, I would banish the Keyser account forever, and let the person who created the account start a new account with a new username at some future date.

I am not Matt, of course, but I, for one, will feel very betrayed if Keyser-the-account comes back. Ever.

On the other hand, I will be delighted if the person who created the Keyser account comes back with a new account, a new attitude, and a new respect for the few basic rules his fellow MeFites have agreed upon.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:43 AM on December 30, 2004


I also believe I know his value--it's more than many of you seem to think. (That's what really gets to me--many of us don't get validation and encouragement or a sense of worth when we're younger and have to develop our own sense of worth and okness, with the help of friends and community. That's been going on here, and the results are evident.)

You are a giant sucker, amberglow.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:46 AM on December 30, 2004


You know, people say that as you age, you forget what you went thru when you were younger--the fuckups, the dumb decisions, the mistakes, the whole growing-up thing

I always thought that an integral part of growing up was learning that one's actions have consequences, and suffering through them.

And as to the "cold place" and "real harm" arguments, you can't be serious. It's just a website, not summer camp, not Big Brothers, and not a support group.
posted by Kwantsar at 7:48 AM on December 30, 2004


I completely agree with sidhedevil and would like to take this opportunity to nominate her Queen of the World.
posted by iconomy at 8:09 AM on December 30, 2004


I like how he quotes Voltaire to defend his being banned for posting a link to a picture of a man displaying his battered rectum.

Personally, I think Voltaire would have been amused. Though Nietzsche might be more appropriate. "When you look into goatse, goatse also looks into you."
posted by squidlarkin at 8:10 AM on December 30, 2004


I think the point is that KS should know better. Matt has way more to think about, with MetaBaby on the way and site monitoring and cleanup after thousands of new users signed up. He doesn't need the older users acting up right now. KS has been around the block, and he's admitted to being a pain in the ass. "...I was acting childish and wanted to be a jerk on purpose"

Let's hope this ban is the wakeup call its intended to be.
posted by grateful at 8:11 AM on December 30, 2004


"...nominate her Queen of the World."

...also "Favorite Editor".
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:21 AM on December 30, 2004


Mwah-hah-hah! My plan is working!

;)
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:22 AM on December 30, 2004


You are a giant sucker, amberglow.
Better a giant sucker than some other things in evidence here--anytime, anyday.
posted by amberglow at 8:43 AM on December 30, 2004


I completely agree with sidhedevil and would like to take this opportunity to nominate her Queen of the World.

Second the nomination. And amberglow, you're a great guy and I love your open-heartedness, but really: this is not KS's foster home, and those who want to see the rules enforced are not cold and heartless. If you see Keyser, tell him if he grows up and learns some impulse control, he might be able to hang onto his memberships in communities. As for this community... that's up to Matt.

On preview:
...also "Favorite Editor".
Curse you, Red Baron!
posted by languagehat at 8:54 AM on December 30, 2004


To be perfectly honest with you, amberglow, Keyser has never, ever left me with a "kid brother" sort of feeling, mostly because I feel like he's always trying to play us, and this does actually leave me quite cold - but probably not in the same way that you are accusing us of. I just don't have any particularly affectionate feelings for the boy.

I guess I feel more that way towards pretty_generic (so far), even though he also tends to push his limits more than is really wise, because I have the impression that he is actually invested here in some way. With KS, I just don't have that feeling - and I haven't had from the start. Just about everything he does seems like a troll to me, in the sense of being set up, and seeking certains kinds of responses in order to cackle over how stupid we all are later. Sorry, sweetie - I love you, and I know that your heart is in the right place, but I don't think his is.
posted by taz at 8:54 AM on December 30, 2004


hat, even if I get the nomination, I am sure you will win the election.

amberglow, I wish you understood that most of us aren't being meanyheads here, but honestly hoping to provide KS with a learning experience.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:57 AM on December 30, 2004


I do understand that, but realize that learning experiences come in all different forms and shapes.
posted by amberglow at 9:07 AM on December 30, 2004


Yes, they do. A ban from an Internet community for violating a rule twice in the same week is a much easier and less damaging learning experience than being fired from a job for violating a rule twice in the same week.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:13 AM on December 30, 2004


But to say I know more harm in him than in myself were to say more than I know. That he is old, the more the pity, his white hairs do witness it. But that he is, saving your reverence, a whoremaster, that I utterly deny. If sack and sugar be a fault, God help the wicked. If to be old and merry be a sin, then many an old host that I know is damned. If to be fat be to be hated, then Pharaoh’s lean kine are to be loved. No, my good lord, banish quonsar, banish amberglow, banish Seth, but for sweet Keyser Soze, kind Keyser Soze, true Keyser Soze, valiant Keyser Soze, and therefore more valiant being, as he is, old Keyser Soze,
Banish not him thy Mathowie’s company,
Banish not him thy Mathowie’s company.
Banish plump Keyser, and banish all the world.
posted by mowglisambo at 9:35 AM on December 30, 2004


I know Falstaffqounsar. Keyser Soze is no quonsar.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:41 AM on December 30, 2004


Thanks mowglisambo: that was my initial reaction too. Then I thought giving the kid a little Shakespearean love would just inflate an already-engorged ego. All the same, thanks.

On preview: EB, plenty of people get references to classical literature. Thus their use. You don't have to point out you get it too.
posted by yerfatma at 9:44 AM on December 30, 2004


Thanks for letting me know that's what I was doing. Funny, I had thought I was saying that quonsar was more rightly Falstaff than KY. I stand corrected.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:46 AM on December 30, 2004


EB, I was just plucking out random people who've been around awhile and whose names happened to have the proper syllable structure. Endorsement of banning these gents was not my intention.

Similarly, it was not my intent to suggest Keyser shouldn't be banned, any less than Falstaff. I think I just wanted an excuse to adapt Shakespeare to our present purposes.
posted by mowglisambo at 9:51 AM on December 30, 2004


I took it primarily as a Quayle reference.
posted by cortex at 9:53 AM on December 30, 2004


I, for one, will feel very betrayed if Keyser-the-account comes back. Ever.

betrayed by a web site. i smell afternoon soap.
posted by quonsar at 9:54 AM on December 30, 2004


Oh, I'm sure quonsar isn't hurting for KY, neither.
posted by chicobangs at 10:00 AM on December 30, 2004


Mowglisambo: yabut, my intent was a lighthearted Bentson-Quayle reference to point out that KS isn't really suitable at all for such a Shakespearean reference. Not to mention that Falstaff pleads on his own behalf where KS is not. I grant you, though, that Matt as Hal is apt—especially in the context of this reference. Matt does what he must.

Cortex: as above, yes, it was a Quayle reference. But you're not supposed to mention it. Smart folks casually keep mum to demonstrate they're "down with it". HTH.

On preview: some kind of Freudian slip thing, I suppose.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:05 AM on December 30, 2004


May I also just say that if this turns into a thread about EB, I'm likely to go batshitinsane and just start shooting at all of you randomly?
posted by taz at 10:09 AM on December 30, 2004


and just start shooting at all of you randomly?

My brain turned randomly to sodomy for a moment there, and yea verily I was bewildered.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:16 AM on December 30, 2004


*ducks*

Wait, you don't do that already? The hell?

On Preview: Oh, I read it as "sodomize all of you randomly". Now I'm less confused.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:17 AM on December 30, 2004


quonsar, I mean "betrayed" in the context of this Web site. I wouldn't lose sleep about it, but I would feel vaguely pissed off and annoyed at Matt whenever I saw the Keyser Soze username on the screen.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:19 AM on December 30, 2004


No, this thread is now officially about



Sidhedevil, Queen of the World.

Long may your reign be.




Ok, now it's back to the subject at hand.

Amberglow, I understand your reasons for sticking out for Keyser, but you mention that "learning experiences come in all different forms and shapes". What would you have us do to provide this learning experience, if not a tempban? And note that "expression of community displeasure" was tried first, and yet the behaviour continued.
posted by Bugbread at 10:27 AM on December 30, 2004


Do you really mean "sticking out for Keyser"?
posted by taz at 10:34 AM on December 30, 2004


we don't know that it's a tempban--at all. From what i understand, and from the tone of matt's comment above, it may very well not be. And if it is a tempban, a timeout would have been far more warranted in my opinion (picking up on the p/maternalistic theme runnning thru this thread).
posted by amberglow at 10:42 AM on December 30, 2004


EB, that would destroy the image I have for so long been cultivating around this handle, to wit: "cortex" is not smart enough to get away with being too smart for his own good.

I'd debate the nuances further, but I've got a date with a flatscreen TV and a copy of First Time Parenthood for Dummies.
posted by cortex at 10:55 AM on December 30, 2004


I want to have it very clear I was jumping on the Sidhedevil bandwagon long before this current wave of riff raff was trampling their muddy feet all over it. Definately keep banned for a very long time, I hate to say it amberglow but you are indeed a class #1 sucker…
posted by fvw at 10:56 AM on December 30, 2004


"sticking out for Keyser" = "sticking your neck out for Keyser" or "sticking up for Keyser". Looks like my brain decided to mash the two together.
posted by Bugbread at 11:03 AM on December 30, 2004


Amberglow, I really like and respect what you have to say.

Except now. As has been pointed out repeatedly, Keyser pulled some stupid BS--linking to goatse--and got called out on it. Rather harshly, I think.

Then 'he' did it again within a week. That's not "I'm being a dumb kid," that's wilful blindness to what is considered acceptable in this community. 'He' decided, consciously, after being very clearly told otherwise to do this, that it would be a good idea to offend everyone, and cause possible badness at work for a number of people. (Leaving aside the wisdom of using company resources for recreation, of course.)

Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice, my fault.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:05 AM on December 30, 2004


bugbread, I was just teasing you. I kind of figured it was a brain fart.
posted by taz at 11:17 AM on December 30, 2004


Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice...

meet the new boss, you won't get bossed again.
posted by quonsar at 11:50 AM on December 30, 2004


And if it is a tempban, a timeout would have been far more warranted in my opinion

Aren't those synonymous?
posted by rushmc at 12:10 PM on December 30, 2004


ask q--he has experience with this. q, what is this that Keyser's under? a ban? tempban? timeout?
posted by amberglow at 12:19 PM on December 30, 2004


To be perfectly honest with you, amberglow, Keyser has never, ever left me with a "kid brother" sort of feeling, mostly because I feel like he's always trying to play us, and this does actually leave me quite cold - but probably not in the same way that you are accusing us of. I just don't have any particularly affectionate feelings for the boy.


Amen.


You know, people say that as you age, you forget what you went thru when you were younger--the fuckups, the dumb decisions, the mistakes, the whole growing-up thing--I wish people would keep that in mind in this situation. There's very little evidence of that in this thread, and it's sad.

Call me a fool or naive or whatever--I've been where he is, and know the value of this to him (and the value of this to all of us, myself included).

I also believe I know his value--it's more than many of you seem to think. (That's what really gets to me--many of us don't get validation and encouragement or a sense of worth when we're younger and have to develop our own sense of worth and okness, with the help of friends and community. That's been going on here, and the results are evident.)


I'm 22, so I think I understand the whole doing-stupid-things-when-you're-young thing. However, at some point you have to admit you were wrong young and stupid and acted the fool instead of continually making excuses and acting like you're being unfairly treated (waaaaaaaaaaa, snarks are just as bad). Also, you have to not do it over and over and over and over and over.

And over.
posted by The God Complex at 12:19 PM on December 30, 2004


maybe the original ks (male) sold the acct to a new ks (female) for more than $5 and then the signups opened and the new ks got mad at having wasted the money and decided to post goatses as revenge?
or maybe not.
posted by andrew cooke at 12:30 PM on December 30, 2004


As the lawyer for KS#2, I have to say that my client was rightfully angry for having purchased an account on eBay that only a few months later was open at only a fraction of the price. Not only did my client spend more money than she could afford acquiring this membership because of an addiction freely touted on the internet, but her investment was almost immediately devalued through no fault of her own, leading to significant emotional and psychological damage. I therefore respectfully submit that my client should be able to post goatse at least five (5) and no more than ten (10) times before bannination.
posted by taz at 12:56 PM on December 30, 2004


(Oh, I get the Quayle reference now. Good one.)
posted by mowglisambo at 1:56 PM on December 30, 2004


(waaaaaaaaaaa, snarks are just as bad).
Actually snarks are far worse than goatse, by a long shot. They're also far more prevalent, along with pile-ons.
posted by amberglow at 2:11 PM on December 30, 2004


Everyone's making a big deal about Keyser suddenly being "female", while not observing that "steel mill" had been entered for an occupation. Before the goatse links appeared, K used to enter a variety of sarcastic bits into the profile settings.

On that note, I'd just say I'm astonished.
posted by Smart Dalek at 2:24 PM on December 30, 2004


Actually snarks are far worse than goatse, by a long shot.

Worse for the site, better for work situations.

Everyone's making a big deal about Keyser suddenly being "female", while not observing that "steel mill" had been entered for an occupation.

I don't think everyone's observation is based necessarily on her profile, but on a post where she said she was, in fact, female. It's linked...er...somewhere above.
posted by Bugbread at 2:31 PM on December 30, 2004


As a person in the grown-up world with mortgages, a job, employees, kids and pets ks’s act was wrong but jp’s comment was falling down roll on the floor funny.

What are you talking about? goatse could get me fired in an instant. I have bills to pay. goatse is super bad.
posted by jpoulos at 2:32 PM on December 30, 2004


Actually snarks are far worse than goatse, by a long shot.

Amberglow, normally I agree with you, but that is simply crap.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:33 PM on December 30, 2004


Jpoulos: Goatse would be bad for me too. My company allows internet browsing of non-work related sites, but has a strict No Porn policy. Plus, it being a different culture, and the manager types being considerably older, Goatse would be as fresh to them as it was to all of us five years ago.
posted by Bugbread at 2:42 PM on December 30, 2004


For the record, as well, the risks of something like goatse are not just "_if_ you followed the link, and _if_ your boss looked over your shoulder at just that moment, you could be in trouble".

Like it or not, many workplaces have screening filters that will automatically flag any attempt to link to an unapproved site. You can't just say "Ooops", and close the window--your action's been flagged somewhere, from your machine/login, and it's entirely possible that it becomes a work issue. If the goatse image link has been placed on a blacklist--and new ones make it there very quickly--it'll get flagged.

What's more, there are some places so paranoid that they don't just monitor outgoing page requests, they parse the links on incoming pages. (Yes, that's extreme, but I've worked with clients that have that level of butt-covering protection.) In that kind of extreme case, you don't have to do _anything_ to get flagged as pursuing NSFW, beyond loading the parent page. The anchor tag itself can get you in trouble, even if you never click on it.

And for anyone who says "Well, you shouldn't want to work in a place like that anyway, so I'm doing you favor by forcing the issue"...Screw. You. You sanctimonious, arrogant little punk.

Just in case anyone would say that.
posted by LairBob at 3:14 PM on December 30, 2004


ask q--he has experience with this. q, what is this that Keyser's under? a ban? tempban? timeout?

come on now, amberglow!. his posting rights have been suspended. nobody can fix that for him. if i were him, i would give it a week, hitch up my pants, adjust my fish, and email matt with hat in hand. a statement regarding future intentions as to goatse posting would probably be helpful at that time.

this is not some mysterious confluence of powerful, unknowable forces acting in unknowable ways, this is the moderator switching off someone who annoyed him. it's far from being an enigma.
posted by quonsar at 3:18 PM on December 30, 2004


You know, Keyser Soze is, apparently, around the same age as Aaron Swartz. And he's stumbling around posting goatse and playing the Eternal Loser so we can collectively play the Concerned Adult Voices of Reason. How... average.

Can we get Aaron posting around here instead? Please? Or at least, if young people, people like The God Complex (who's not far from that age, as he mentions) who are literate, articulate, interesting and funny?

You know KS is reading this thread -- hi Keyser! I strongly suggest that if you wish to return, and you are welcome, even if it doesn't seem so, exactly, that whatever Matt does with regard to your KS login, that you drop $5 and get a new one, and never ever reveal you True Identity. Start fresh, build a new, more positive reputation in this little reputation economy of ours.

This would solve the whole mess satisfactorily, I'd say, including amberglow's slightly incomprehensible insistence that KS's indiscretions be forgiven and he be let back in toute de suite, as if he were some prepubescent youngster unclear on the distinctions between his indoor voice and his outdoor voice.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:31 PM on December 30, 2004


young people, people like The God Complex (who's not far from that age, as he mentions) who are literate, articulate, interesting and funny

Yeah, I was struck by that -- I had no idea TGC was only 22.

*gives mad props to The God Complex*
posted by languagehat at 3:36 PM on December 30, 2004


Worse for the site, better for work situations.

Precisely. And I care about the site. Your work situations? Not so much.
posted by rushmc at 3:37 PM on December 30, 2004


Understandably, my concerns put more weight on my work situation, and less on the site. ^_^

That said, we can try to decrease gaotse posts and snarks. It's not a zero sum proposition. We can have our cake and eat it as well.

(er, well, I don't actually believe we can get rid of snarks, but we can have our cake and try to eat it as well. Which is better than not having our cake and only trying to eat it as well.)
posted by Bugbread at 3:56 PM on December 30, 2004


It's not a zero sum proposition.

any physics student can tell you goatse and snark distrubution are finely balanced. interference could lead to disastrous, galaxy-wide anal stretching. er, no pun intended.
posted by quonsar at 4:47 PM on December 30, 2004


I suggest that Keyser rejoin as "Kevin Spacey."
posted by mwhybark at 5:00 PM on December 30, 2004


"What are you talking about? goatse could get me fired in an instant. I have bills to pay. goatse is super bad." - jpoulos

Goatse IS super bad and while I often agree with amberglow I think KS should be slapped. Still I have no sympathy for people worried about be fired for goatse. Don't be surfing on the company dime if your boss is such a tight ass about loose ass.
posted by arse_hat at 5:07 PM on December 30, 2004


Yes, but that's why they're physics students and not physics professors. Stephen Hawking can tell you that cutting back on snarks reduces goatse by 2% and increases the cuteness of kittens by 3.1%, before he kills you with his wheelchair mounted laser guided missiles.
posted by Bugbread at 5:08 PM on December 30, 2004


Don't be surfing on the company dime if your boss is such a tight ass about loose ass.

Unless you're implying that any and all websurfing carries the risk of The Weddingbanded Man, I don't see how that works. I work disaster recovery, meaning that when there's nothing to do, there's nothing to do (think "network fireman"). There's not a damn thing wrong with websurfing, according to my boss, but pornography will End Civilization. I can read the New York Times, Slashdot, quite a few forums, etc., and have no problems with goats. I figured Mefi fit into that end of the web spectrum, and Matt seems to agree. If matt agrees, and my boss agrees (unknowingly) with matt's policy, why shouldn't I browse the net on the company dime?
posted by Bugbread at 5:13 PM on December 30, 2004


"why shouldn't I browse the net on the company dime?"
Because you know sometimes people do shitty things on the internets and you know your boss will not accept porn even if it's a accident. Why risk your job?
posted by arse_hat at 5:17 PM on December 30, 2004


So I take it you never get into a car, because you might get killed in an accident. Why risk your life?
posted by languagehat at 5:19 PM on December 30, 2004


Sorry languagehat but I just don't get your meaning.
posted by arse_hat at 5:25 PM on December 30, 2004


It seems a bit odd that Keyser was banned for posting links to Goatse.cx, because in a prior Metatalk thread in which I brought up the matter, Matt clearly stated that Goatse links were amusing, and OK with him.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:25 PM on December 30, 2004


hmmm
posted by amberglow at 5:30 PM on December 30, 2004


Good answer, arse_hat.

(Typing that makes it sound like an insult. Let me rephrase it to "Good answer, a_h").

Though I do agree with languagehat that the question is the degree of acceptable risk. Doing a night shift with no internet every night would be like getting teeth pulled, and I'd rather quit my job. Browsing rotten.com on a night shift would be like getting teeth pulled for a different reason (yuck), and I'd get fired from my job. But there are interesting, mature, safe sites that make night shifts a pleasure, or at least less of a bore, and I'd like to believe Mefi is one of them. God forbid I limit myself to company controlled sites with zero chance of goatse, like newyorktimes.com and msdn.com.

On preview:

Matt clearly stated that Goatse links were amusing, and OK with him.

Yes, but check the context. Here's the comment with the link to goatse he's referring to: "Analogia - You upload your face and complex recognition software returns three celebrities you most resemble. Which are you? The software is surprisingly accurate! (Marginally NSFW: thumb nailed obscenity)"

If it's got the magic acronym NSFW, it can be a picture of the pope skullfucking a baby, for all it matters.
posted by Bugbread at 5:32 PM on December 30, 2004


Oh great bugbread drag religion into it! ;-)
posted by arse_hat at 5:35 PM on December 30, 2004


Contextual goatse.

Right.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:39 PM on December 30, 2004


Uh...Alexander Pope, of course.
posted by Bugbread at 5:43 PM on December 30, 2004


er, well, I don't actually believe we can get rid of snarks, but we can have our cake and try to eat it as well.

You understand that snarks cannot be entirely eliminated, yet hold onto the fantasy that goatses can?
posted by rushmc at 5:54 PM on December 30, 2004


Ok...

We can try to eliminate snarks, and be only modestly successful, and we can try to eliminate goatse, and be mostly, though not entirely successful.

Either way, we don't have to pick one or the other.
posted by Bugbread at 6:05 PM on December 30, 2004


we don't have to pick choose one or the other.
posted by arse_hat at 6:09 PM on December 30, 2004


NO STEALTH GOATSE! NO STEALTH GOATSE!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:10 PM on December 30, 2004


Father: Son, now that you're going out into the world, there's something you should know. You see that?

Navin: Yeah.

Father: That's shit. And this: shinola.

Navin: Shit, shinola.

Father: Son, you're going to be all right.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:28 PM on December 30, 2004


situational goatse is destroying this nation.
posted by quonsar at 6:32 PM on December 30, 2004


Arse_hat, you're going to have to change your name, because you're right again, and I can't go around calling someone who is right so often "arse_hat".
posted by Bugbread at 6:40 PM on December 30, 2004


My father always says, "Um, the one in the can is Shinola".

My version is, "Er, the one on your arm is your elbow."

I actually saw a can of Shinola once in a store. I should have bought it for future reference.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:53 PM on December 30, 2004


I am Keyser Soze.
posted by exlotuseater at 6:56 PM on December 30, 2004


This is a very cold place sometimes.

It's not cold. It's a website dedicated to interesting links on the web. That's all it ever was, all it will ever be.
posted by justgary at 6:57 PM on December 30, 2004


there's a horrible offense ethnic joke involving shinola that I'm straining myself not to tell, and it's killing me.

I hope you all are satisfied.
posted by jonmc at 6:58 PM on December 30, 2004




Can we get Aaron posting around here instead? Please? Or at least, if young people, people like The God Complex (who's not far from that age, as he mentions) who are literate, articulate, interesting and funny?


Yeah, I was struck by that -- I had no idea TGC was only 22.

*gives mad props to The God Complex*


Hah--double props ;)

:::receives the generous props obligingly, then grabs his chrome-plated quarter nickels* and gets ready to peel some caps back:::

*that's how all the cool kids talk about .45's

posted by The God Complex at 7:58 PM on December 30, 2004


*hikes pants up to chest. Performs outreach to the younger generation*
Yo Yo G C that hand gun is all fosizle hizel dizel!
posted by arse_hat at 8:14 PM on December 30, 2004


and at night when the bars close down, brandy walks through a silent town, and loves a man who's not around, she still can hear him say....

Brandy, You're a fine girl, what a good wife you would be.....



...what?
posted by jonmc at 9:12 PM on December 30, 2004


that's how all the cool kids talk about .45's

Thought you were talking about 45s, you know, the records that spin at 45 rpm, and was confused.
posted by kenko at 9:38 PM on December 30, 2004


...what?

You are strong. You are invicinible.
posted by WolfDaddy at 10:13 PM on December 30, 2004


I guess I missed out on the a/s/l check a while back, but I think there are probably plenty of young, intelligent, articulate members who don't make a big fuss about their age. Personally, I found Keyser's repetitive "I'm just a kid, how can I get some money for free to buy some drinks and get out of jail free" shenanigans to be the most irritating thing about 'im. He's an attention-whore. They come in all ages, I'm told. As others have pointed out above, this thread plays right into his hands.
posted by bonheur at 11:02 PM on December 30, 2004


If it's got the magic acronym NSFW, it can be a picture of the pope skullfucking a baby, for all it matters.

*bleaches brain*

As another Mefite that adores amberglow, I'll also say he's gone out too far on a limb. KS has admitted that he did it just to be a jerk (The second time I posted the goatse was definately purposeful and I did it because I was acting childish and wanted to be a jerk on purpose.). While I don't believe a permaban is fair, a tempban is right on the money.
posted by deborah at 11:07 PM on December 30, 2004


Man, I recall posting a goatse.cx at some point here with little ire from members (and some support!). Ahh, here it is.

I hope kenaman doesn't hold anything against me still. :-D
posted by shepd at 11:18 PM on December 30, 2004


I think Amberglow was being sincere, and I think he is referencing Matts post in this thread; Which gives the impression KS won't have the chance to come back. From what I can garner, Amberglow is awesome.
posted by Dean Keaton at 12:51 AM on December 31, 2004


I should have said "four nickels" or "fo nickels". I'm not sure why I said "quarter", which makes little or no sense.
posted by The God Complex at 1:08 AM on December 31, 2004


deborah, that's what limbs are for. And I wouldn't do this for someone i thought was worthless. and thanks to you, and Dean, too : >

I see a real disjunct here between the relatively free exchange of links and ideas and conversation, and the quickness to scream, "Sinner! Ban him! Be gone!" over a link that appears here almost regularly, as is indicated above. (While others have been totally offensive and assholes on a regular basis (which Keyser has not been)--and get banned for not responding to an email, or something unrelated, or don't get banned at all.)
posted by amberglow at 6:04 AM on December 31, 2004


Phui. The world is a large place, and offers many avenues for insight and redemption, with the internet comprising only a small corner. It panders to pretense to opine that a revolving door, turnstile, or some other carousel would be suitable to aiding our incorrigible little whelp(s)! Indeed, it would not, as implied, be a curse upon our rude guest(s) to be thrust into the Great Outdoors, but rather, an encouragement for the upstart to understand the complexities of courtesy so often demanded of one, notwithstanding the causes and effects of discourse and conduct upon others. I could go on in such manner if compelled enough, but I digress. Our recurrent recalcitrant and his cohorts have an embarrassment of options available for bettering themselves. It would be vulgar to dare to encourage any of them to again regale our stewardship as their own private rubes!

Now if you excuse me, I need to direct my attention elsewhere for the moment. For having tasted brunch, and not desiring to be poisoned yet again, it appears obvious to me that the kitchen is on fire.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:27 AM on December 31, 2004


It's no Opus Dark. I give it a B-.
posted by kenko at 9:03 AM on December 31, 2004


Ah, the pain of being graded on a curve. Opus Dark ruins it for everyone else.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:22 AM on December 31, 2004


I've never met a child who was raised on timeouts that was better-behaved and more polite than one raised on spankings.
posted by darukaru at 9:34 AM on December 31, 2004


I have. The key is the timeouts that never actually happen.

[child misbehaves]

"Do you want a timeout? You're headed for a timeout in 3.. 2.."

[child shapes up]

"That's better."
posted by scarabic at 9:54 AM on December 31, 2004


darukaru, are you offering your services?
posted by vetiver at 9:58 AM on December 31, 2004


now i'm laughing : >

i hope he reregisters, and i bet he behaves better--i know now that i'm not a sucker at all, and my faith in Keyser wasn't in vain.

off to italy--see ya all on the 11th!
posted by amberglow at 10:12 AM on December 31, 2004


good riddance. amberglow is, as always, too kind. 2005 looks better already. happy new year everybody
posted by matteo at 12:39 AM on January 1, 2005


On banning by IP: I know a lot of people swear by this, but it seems pointless to me. To get a new IP, all I've got to do is leave my cable modem switched off for a few hours (at which point that banned IP passes on to somebody else), or take my PictureBook to the coffee shop.

So "Ban by IP", to me, is synonymous with "manual ban-list maintenance". I start to lose interest really fast whenever any website maintenance process includes the word "manual."
posted by lodurr at 12:36 PM on January 1, 2005


Goatse stopped being offensive a long, long time ago.

Um... yeah, right. Maybe for people working in the back office at a strip club. At most places I've ever worked, goatse on-screen for anybody to see would be cause for immediate dismissal, more or less no questions brooked.

Hell, even appearance in the HTTP logs would be enough at Kodak or Xerox...
posted by lodurr at 12:43 PM on January 1, 2005


Maybe Dean Keaton is the new Keyser Soze then?
posted by longbaugh at 12:49 AM on January 4, 2005


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