A warm fireplace with overstuffed chairs January 13, 2005 2:27 PM   Subscribe

Is anyone willing to create a MetaParlour? [Come into my thread, said the swan to the MeFites]
posted by orange swan to Feature Requests at 2:27 PM (86 comments total)

Your indulgence please if you’ve already read my comment about this in the mr_crash_davis thread about thread closures. I thought this was an issue that might warrant its own thread, and that perhaps not many people would see discussion of it in that long thread.

A number of people don’t like the chattiness of the grey, and it seems one solution might be to create another page, a MetaParlour if you will, that is just a place for us to hang out and chat or whatever. (Yes, there's IRC, but many of us can't use it.) MeTa can then become strictly a place to deal with MeFi issues, the blue and the green would also probably benefit, the MeFi kids would have a place to play since they seem determined to do so, and those who don't like the chattiness and the operatic-like personality wars can just stay out of the rumpus room.

You can say we should all just realize the site isn't intended to accommodate free-for-alls and hanging out, and behave ourselves, and I suppose that's true, but we aren't all such puritans about the site. This is a dynamic community, and some of us - maybe many of us - would revel in a chance to just hang out and screw around with the in jokes and photoshopping and the like. The others who are just here for the links, link-related discussion, and AskMe would then be able to enjoy a more streamlined site.

I suspect Matt might not want to/be able to invest the necessary time on this, so I’m asking if anyone else would want to do so. (Don’t have the skills myself, alas.) Whoever does so could certainly finance it quite easily by charging members each a one-time (or annual?) $5 or $10 to use the playroom (and if Matt were to do it, he could perhaps make it a second-tier membership privilege). I also think it would be a place that would take relatively little moderation, as it's designed to be a place to play (but then what do I know – I’ve never moderated a site).

Me3dia commented in the thread closure thread that if someone else were to do this, he or she “should create a metafilter.clone at metametafilter.com (too bad metatalk.com is taken) and really get the look and feel of The Grey down”.

To add to this, I expect that if someone else did it, and if it “felt” like an extension of MeFi, and if perhaps Matt could add a MetaParlour (or whatever) link to the top of the MeFi pages, many of us would shuffle over there quite happily.

I invite your comments on this, but er, not too many of them:-)
posted by orange swan at 2:30 PM on January 13, 2005


Wow, what a great idea.
posted by euphorb at 2:33 PM on January 13, 2005


I don't know. If anything, I'd say that things have gotten more chatty since #mefi and 9622.net came along, so what's to make me think another outlet would curb rather than encourage chatting in metafilter?
posted by Hildago at 2:46 PM on January 13, 2005


Wild-ass pony that I'm not seriously requesting: A Typekey-like system. That way, anyone can form offsite cliques or special interest sites for Mefites only. All Matt needs to do, then, is register sites that wish to make use of it (thus giving him discretion) and an announcefilter. Then, in effect, there can be new ponies since Matt won't run those sites. How this will affect interaction & participation on legacy Metafilter is not something I want to spend time contemplating. Just seems like a neat idea, from above.
posted by Gyan at 2:47 PM on January 13, 2005


How about a continually running chat thread on the sidebar of Metatalk, which people can turn on or off as they please?
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:54 PM on January 13, 2005


I'd say this should just take the form of a standard message board, but anything would be good. Why is it that this group has to be restricted to conversing around links? There's certainly more interests people might share other than sites. I'd certainly be willing to help setting this up if it were a user-instigated thing (I have programming and poor web design skills, plus I moderate on a board with 10,000+ users)
posted by abcde at 2:58 PM on January 13, 2005


I would love for anyone to do something off-site, since I wouldn't have to run an intense page with tons of comments per second and reloads and whatnot.

There's not metachatzone or metaparlor because I don't want to waste the cycles on something I'd rather not have on the site anyway, but if anyone wants to volunteer to build a playpen, I'd be happy to link to it at the top of metatalk.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:59 PM on January 13, 2005


MetaParlour. Heh. Maybe also: MetaLounge?

Weird random thought for offsite clique: MetaFurries.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:00 PM on January 13, 2005


A MetaKey system would be *awesome*.

Lots of uses for this one.
posted by bshort at 3:05 PM on January 13, 2005


MetaStasis: always spreading
posted by cortex at 3:08 PM on January 13, 2005


Yes, if only someone created something exactly like www.9622.net and...oh, nevermind.

It's there. One click and you've got dogs in spacesuits, in-line monkey graphics, bunnies with pancakes, and everything else that shouldn't be on MeFi but that people (for whatever reason) want to see and feel compelled to share with others. Use it.
posted by cosmonik at 3:08 PM on January 13, 2005


Passwords are stored encrypted, right? If so, Matt, would you be willing to send whoever (hypothetically) makes this a copy of the users table so that Mefi members automatically get Lounge memberships with the same name/password instead of having to do an annoying verification system like the survey did?
posted by abcde at 3:14 PM on January 13, 2005


Matt, why not just put a to link to it.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:14 PM on January 13, 2005


abcde - yeah, but then you have to worry about the databases staying in synch.

What I would love to see is a PayPal cart-type system where the user who wants to access MetaLounge gets thrown to MetaStasis (or MetaKey or whatever it's called), the user logs in, the system confirms username and password, and then kicks the user to a "successful login" page on the MetaLounge site, where he can then go about his business. It's my understanding that that's how TypeKey works as well.
posted by bshort at 3:18 PM on January 13, 2005


Yeah, that's a better idea.
posted by abcde at 3:21 PM on January 13, 2005


A number of people don’t like the chattiness of the grey

That's a misrepresentation. Just because someone enjoys urinating doesn't mean that he supports doing it in the candy aisle at the supermarket.

MeTa can then become strictly a place to deal with MeFi issues

It doesn't need to become such; it already is, the efforts of a few to abuse it notwithstanding.
posted by rushmc at 3:24 PM on January 13, 2005


Can anyone read the stuff on this Japanese page, which claims to offer some sort of Typekey authentication system in PHP?
posted by Gyan at 3:25 PM on January 13, 2005


I just registered metaparlour.com, which I'll either host or donate as needed. I thought I'd try setting up bbPress for now.
posted by timeistight at 3:33 PM on January 13, 2005


Since we're mostly Americans, it should be parlor if that's the choice. Then again, doesn't hurt to have both.
posted by abcde at 3:55 PM on January 13, 2005


Ooh! [lays large orange speckled egg in excitement] Thanks, timeistight!

I had never heard of www.9622.net before this thread. My theory is in order for the chattiness to be effectively rerouted to our playpen, the playpen will need to be linked to MeFi in some very obvious way (i.e., link provided at the top of the MeTa/MeFi page). Then the MeFi cops can reasonably say, "If you want to chat, go do it in the right place."
posted by orange swan at 3:56 PM on January 13, 2005


Being a visual person, I would love something visual, like that old avatar chat thing "The Palace"
posted by Dag Maggot at 3:59 PM on January 13, 2005


Ha!

Seriously, come and play with us monkeys. We only fling poo when threatened. Or excited. Or breathing.
posted by adampsyche at 4:00 PM on January 13, 2005


Whoever does so could certainly finance it quite easily by charging members each a one-time (or annual?) $5 or $10 to use the playroom

Your argument against IRC is that many people can't use it, but you think we should charge for the playroom? How many people either can't or won't pay and continue chatting in MeTa?

I don't think the occasional chattiness in the gray is all that bad. Not that I approve of it, but it's easy enough to ignore. The only time I find it annoying is when an initially-serious thread has turned to chattiness, and I have a serious point I want to make, which everyone ignores because they're being chatty (and the people interested in serious discussion of the issue have stopped reading the thread since it turned chatty). But I'm probably grossly overestimating the importance of whatever I wanted to say, anyway.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:00 PM on January 13, 2005


hen the MeFi cops can reasonably say, "If you want to chat, go do it in the right place."

Your chat is my trenchant observation.

Wait. Did I just chat? Fuck.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 4:03 PM on January 13, 2005


Sites like 9622 will ultimately fail because people want to air their grievances and make their jokes in front of an audience. Metafilterians want to chat, but they want to chat on a very public forum. There's no point in dropping the witty googlebomb or telling EB he's a numpty without several hundred people reading it.

That sounds cynical, but it's the truth.

My suggestion...

Metatalk should be as open as possible, and within broad confines of decency / legality, threads should not be closed. In situations where a thread threatens to go out of control, only the first 30 and the last thirty comments should be shown. Either that, or the comments should be paged (50 at a time) so as to save cycles / bandwidth.

A chat pane is a great idea. Have a throwaway comment post button, and sidebar the last x comments on each thread. This way, people can get to play while respecting the topic in question.
posted by seanyboy at 4:13 PM on January 13, 2005


Sites like 9622 will ultimately fail
Fail? Never new we had a goal.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:53 PM on January 13, 2005


Yes, I am a failure, knew.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:54 PM on January 13, 2005


9622 will only be a failure for those asshats who want to song-and-dance in front of a crowd (cf: drama-queenery). For people who don't thirst for throwaway net kudos, it works just fine to fuck around in.

Do people think it's really so bad as to take measures that (IMHO) would drastically change the free-form flow of MetaFilter. Paging threads and chat panes seem to make MeFi less unique and more like other forums out there. Editing views, messing with the pure line of commentary, would serve only to ruin the character of MeFi. We might have a bit more order - but at what price?

Yes, there's a problem with chatty fucks. Yes, it can get silly and crowded with noise in MeTa threads. But is it at the point where you want to start messing with the reproductive system of the goose that's still laying the occassional golden egg?
posted by cosmonik at 5:01 PM on January 13, 2005


I think 9622 is succeeding just fine, seanyboy. The monkeys there are a hell of a lot of fun and some great folks, and we all enjoy chatting there.

Then again, 9622 is succeeding on its own terms, though not necessarily on yours.
posted by Vidiot at 5:01 PM on January 13, 2005


9622, fail? I think it's hilarious that you'd take us so seriously. How can we fail at having fun?

C'mon by. We don't bite. The poo - well, that's another story.
posted by tizzie at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2005


Sites like 9622 will ultimately fail because people want to air their grievances and make their jokes in front of an audience.

Huh. And here I thought that the site had been around for nearly three years.

But what would I know about it.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:37 PM on January 13, 2005


9622 is failing at what, exactly?
posted by chicobangs at 6:24 PM on January 13, 2005


#mefi is dominated by 3 or 4 low brow personalities, and as such is not very much fun, or very welcoming.
posted by orange clock at 6:41 PM on January 13, 2005


MetaLounge is a great name.
posted by orange clock at 6:43 PM on January 13, 2005


Sites like 9622 will ultimately fail because people want to air their grievances and make their jokes in front of an audience.

Seanyboy, you surprise me, you unpredictable rapscallions. Audiences are all very well and indeed appreciated but surely a gentleman of your wide reading and experience in life has come across, at some point or another, the concept of "friends"?

Some would argue (I myself, along with the entire world's population waving their arms in the air) that friends are far more fun than audiences and that chatting with them is a speciality.

9622 has a wonderful audience of friends and you're more than welcome to join if you'd like to have a taste of this "friendship" thing before you commit. :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:09 PM on January 13, 2005


rapscallions is a typo but, having considered that plural form and taking into account your double personalities, I've decided to let it stand. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:13 PM on January 13, 2005


Rapscalia? That conjures up some terrifying images.

All are welcome at 9622, I believe. But first, you must post an amusing picture of a monkey, preferably caught in the act of flinging poo. This is non-negotiable, and a fundamental difference between Meta* and 9622.net.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:56 PM on January 13, 2005


Others have discussed the idea. I got no problem with it, but the old timers seem to have a Not Invented Here reaction to it.
posted by Doohickie at 8:06 PM on January 13, 2005


I think the issue is whether sites like 9622 succeed in diverting chat from metafilter to outside venues or not. That's at least what's nominally on the table. I don't want to put words in Seanyboy's mouth, but maybe that's what he meant when he said these sites "fail".

Personally, I'm not sure that's what those sites are even there for to begin with. Seems like they just increase the overall amount of chatter, rather than moving the same amount elsewhere.
posted by Hildago at 8:11 PM on January 13, 2005


So you're saying I didn't have to pay eyeballkid $5 to post on 9622.net?

That bastard!
posted by filmgoerjuan at 8:26 PM on January 13, 2005


Eyeballkid went out and achieved, anyway.
posted by tizzie at 8:51 PM on January 13, 2005


"#mefi is dominated by 3 or 4 low brow personalities, and as such is not very much fun, or very welcoming."

I beg to differ. There are at least SIX low-brow personalities there, and all of them are fun AND welcoming, as long as you're not a complete sphincter.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:58 PM on January 13, 2005


Hell, even if you're a moderately relaxed sphincter.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:59 PM on January 13, 2005


Some Chinaman took Eyeballkid's legs?
posted by trondant at 9:01 PM on January 13, 2005


This agression will not stand, man.
posted by Lebowski at 9:04 PM on January 13, 2005


I wandered into #mefi once, and they were all rather welcoming and lovely to chat with. My only problem with using 9622 is it's rather ugly to look at compared to Metafilter, at least at my resolution size.
posted by FunkyHelix at 9:30 PM on January 13, 2005


#mefi is dominated by 3 or 4 low brow personalities, and as such is not very much fun, or very welcoming.

I concur. Only if we were more of a blowhard like yourself. Perchance we could of exchanged lame insults towards Midwesterners.

Fishing was fun, caught a carp... and a cold =/
posted by Dreamghost at 9:31 PM on January 13, 2005


My only problem with using 9622 is it's rather ugly to look at compared to Metafilter, at least at my resolution size.

*cries*

No, it's OK. Really. I'm no designer, just a dabbler, and what little (deliberately goofy) design there is was slapped together when our genial admins started the place a few years back, and never revised, except for some glaring inadequacies patched up with the invaluable help of the might tay hota. It no doubt looks like crap, or fails entirely in all but the most forgiving of browsers.

If I wasn't so damn lazy, I'd be working on a version 2.0, or at least a 1.01....
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:37 PM on January 13, 2005


* rushes to the defense of the chicken *

Hey, but it scrolls horizontally! HOR-IZZ-ONTALLY!

Granted, it does look a little lamer and harder to read with a new browser, but ...

Hey! It's HORIZONTAL, man!
posted by yhbc at 10:19 PM on January 13, 2005


Oh, chicken, I'm so sorry. It's a lovely design. Perhaps if I just squint a little...yup. There you go. So pretty. And the scroll bars? Like little magic elves moving things on my screen. I'm enchanted.
posted by FunkyHelix at 10:51 PM on January 13, 2005


9622.net: Squizzle Funky Munky Horizzizzle!
posted by chicobangs at 11:02 PM on January 13, 2005


No sweat. Like I said, I just like messing around, and make no claims to actually knowing what I'm doing.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:06 PM on January 13, 2005


Can anyone read the stuff on this Japanese page, which claims to offer some sort of Typekey authentication system in PHP?

I can read it, but since I know nothing about Typekey, I don't know what it means. Still, here goes:

We (I?) have released the Auth_TypeKey module for simple design of TypeKey client pages using PHP. Licensing conforms to the PHP license.

auth-typekey.zip | auth-typekey.tar.gz

It is PEAR package compatible, and should be installed under /usr/local/lib/php/Auth for a normal installation. We (I?) haven't written any documentation, so look at the source and samples for details.

In order to use it, PHP with gmp for DSA calculation is necessary.

(2004/10/11 Comment: We (I?) have also released Auth_TypeKey that supports bcmath.)

posted by Bugbread at 12:14 AM on January 14, 2005


What Hildago said.
By fail, I didn't mean that 9622 wasn't a fine place to hang out. No offence was meant there. I just meant that it wouldn't stop the chatting on Metatalk. My apologies.
posted by seanyboy at 12:38 AM on January 14, 2005


MetaParlour software already exists.

It's called Citadel. It feels exactly like this place does when it gets chatty (friendly chatty).
posted by five fresh fish at 12:41 AM on January 14, 2005


you're more than welcome to join if you'd like to have a taste of this "friendship" thing
Very funny Miguel.
I suspect that in an alternate universe, the dying robot me who will have been sent to conquer the world will look at the large breasted heroine and say something like...
"human ... I ... now .... understand ... this ... thing ... you ... call ... friendship. "
or something.
posted by seanyboy at 12:42 AM on January 14, 2005


I think we need an *official* MeFi chat site if we're to find out if the chat can be rerouted. Whether it's 9622 or some new site yet to be created, it needs to be linked from this site and generally recognized as an extension of MeFi.
posted by orange swan at 1:20 AM on January 14, 2005


I don't think its going to happen. It seems that most chat happens when a thread has just about ended its useful life and therefore anyone who isn't interested in chatting (and on occasion the abuse is really high quality stuff) is going to spot where the real comment ends.

The other point which is worth thinking about is that it would involve even more moderation by Matt along the lines of "clear off to MetaParlour - this isn't relevant to MeTa". Human nature being what it is, some silly bugger is then going to start making serious points in MePa which should be in the grey. The loop would be mind boggling.
posted by Cancergiggles at 1:42 AM on January 14, 2005


Who can't use irc? There are clients available for almost every platform (including Amiga).
posted by pemdasi at 3:11 AM on January 14, 2005


We could simply invade crunchland!
posted by page404 at 4:28 AM on January 14, 2005


I think the issue is whether sites like 9622 succeed in diverting chat from metafilter to outside venues or not.

Have you seen the 9622 thread? Can you imagine how bludgeoned it would have been had 9622 not split off?
posted by adampsyche at 5:53 AM on January 14, 2005


I blame myself.
posted by ColdChef at 6:34 AM on January 14, 2005


Don't blame yourself, Chef. We are all to blame.

No. Wait! Society!
Society is to blame.
posted by chicobangs at 7:41 AM on January 14, 2005


My only problem with using 9622 is it's rather ugly to look at compared to Metafilter

Please tell me you don't have a problem with Bingo the Bad Habits monkey!
posted by tj at 8:02 AM on January 14, 2005


five fresh fish, I was always wondering if you were the same FFF I always saw around CitaNet in the early nineties. I guess I was correct! (Citadel 4eva btw)
posted by neckro23 at 8:51 AM on January 14, 2005


There Is Only One.

Who be you?
posted by five fresh fish at 9:03 AM on January 14, 2005


Personally I like having different places to go with different functions. The internets are so big... why do we want this one place to be everything?

PS: 9622 looks interesting. I like it that the flinging does not purport to be less.
posted by idest at 9:10 AM on January 14, 2005


#mefi sucks because they're totally racist and talk shit about mathowie all the time.
posted by angry modem at 9:44 AM on January 14, 2005


Oh dear.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:03 AM on January 14, 2005


(Yes, there's IRC, but many of us can't use it.)

This is hard:

download mirc or xchat or whatever
type in irc.metafilter.com and whatever nick you want to use
when it connects, type /join #mefi
say 'hi, i guess i'm not totally retarded after all'

You can ask other people for help with IRC from there on in the channel. If you ask politely, I'm sure someone could set up a java applet or something to make it even easier. We have an established channel with constant chatter. Starting something else would just be pointless and would fail.
posted by angry modem at 10:55 AM on January 14, 2005


My husband prefers I not mess with IRC. He's the house geek so I accede to his wishes.
posted by konolia at 11:11 AM on January 14, 2005


Then you better not. It's scary shit.
posted by angry modem at 11:18 AM on January 14, 2005


Bingo the Bad Habits monkey is my own personal Jesus, TJ.
posted by tizzie at 11:33 AM on January 14, 2005


Why would he prefer you not to mess with IRC? That's like not wanting someone to mess with mystery novels. Or public television. Or the color green.
posted by cortex at 1:39 PM on January 14, 2005


I like Bingo on 9622.net, but the sideways scroll makes me queasy. Sorry, Stav.

I would love it if Matt's willing to create Chat.Metafilter.com. Matt could even redirect Chat.Metafilter.com to another server, if he doesn't want to implement it, and someone else does.

On preview, you could join #mefi and say 'hi, i'm a slavering dork.'
posted by theora55 at 1:40 PM on January 14, 2005


The only problem with 9622 is that they are oddly obsessed with monkeys. Ditto for MonkeyFilter. And yet, apparently, there is no connection between the two! Most peculiar...
posted by rushmc at 3:06 PM on January 14, 2005


Wait a minute, so the person going by the nick "konolia" on #mefi isn't konolia?

Next you'll be telling me that the IRC quonsar isn't quonsar!
posted by filmgoerjuan at 3:20 PM on January 14, 2005


I also need to comment on this:

I think we need an *official* MeFi chat site if we're to find out if the chat can be rerouted. Whether it's 9622 or some new site yet to be created, it needs to be linked from this site and generally recognized as an extension of MeFi.
posted by orange swan at 1:20 AM PST on January 14


There is a DNS entry for irc.metafitler.com pointing at the IRC server the channel is located on. I don't understand how you can get any more official than that.
posted by angry modem at 5:33 PM on January 14, 2005


Actually, the IRC Quonsar is Coldchef, after he's been into the Tabasco sauce.
posted by tizzie at 5:36 PM on January 14, 2005


#mefi is dominated by 3 or 4 low brow personalities, and as such is not very much fun, or very welcoming.

Please name names.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 6:23 PM on January 14, 2005


Steve, you've always been cool as hell.
posted by orange clock at 6:54 PM on January 14, 2005


What is this "Low Brow" you speak of?
posted by exlotuseater at 7:58 PM on January 14, 2005


Hmm. angry modem as the spokesperson for #mefi. Yeah, that'll work.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:07 PM on January 14, 2005


(fff: I was The Necromancer. I was 14 and didn't post much, at least not to the networked rooms.)
posted by neckro23 at 8:52 PM on January 15, 2005


Hmm. Ethereal Bligh as the spokesperson for longwinded assholes. Yeah, that'll work.
posted by Dreamghost at 1:14 AM on January 16, 2005


ZING!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:02 PM on January 16, 2005


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