you can't have everything2 March 23, 2005 12:07 PM   Subscribe

E2? Or no?
posted by Count Ziggurat to Etiquette/Policy at 12:07 PM (64 comments total)

(my own post)
Are single articles from E2 out now? I figured it fit as 'best of the web', regardless of the source.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 12:09 PM on March 23, 2005


Calling out your own FPP is the new black.
posted by grateful at 12:19 PM on March 23, 2005


#mefi is a great place to hash these things out before posting, by the way.
posted by jessamyn at 12:22 PM on March 23, 2005


Having had no idea what E2 was, I was in a position to enjoy the content you linked to and also discover the site for the first time. That's just me, of course. But I for one don't see this E2 thing as over-exposed. I'd never even heard of it.

People get their panties in a twist when it's suggested that anything linked from BoingBoing is too overexposed to post on MeFi. They dislike the implication that they're "supposed" to read BoingBoing.

By the same token, are we "supposed" to read E2?
posted by scarabic at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2005


Sweet merciful holy crap, Count Ziggurat! You shouldn't have called out your own post. I didn't even flag your post or anything, I was just saying "I don't know".

I'm totally down with E2 links. I already believe that E2 is the best of the web, ever, but I'm totally biased and addicted. It's just that I've never, ever seen a FPP that linked to a specific E2 article.

Can we just delete or close this and let the FPP and the thread in question on the blue determine it's own life, as usual?

On preview: Yes, scarabic. Didn't you get the memo? You're supposed to read E2. All 1,007,638 nodes and all of the 442,651 writeups by 84,090 users. And I'm going to need a summary of that by, oh, Monday. OK? Yeah. We're going to need to have you come in this weekend. Great.
posted by loquacious at 12:36 PM on March 23, 2005


I think it's a good post, for whatever that's worth.

CZ did the right thing by bringing it here. Actually, the people criticizing the post in the thread should have done that, but given that they didn't, it's appropriate for CZ to do so.

jessamyn: that's fine if someone realizes their would-be post is skirting the edge before they post it. CZ's auto-callout is not sui generis, but in response to the criticism within the thread.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2005


Calling things the new black is the new black.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2005


Sweet merciful holy crap, Count Ziggurat! You shouldn't have called out your own post. I didn't even flag your post or anything, I was just saying "I don't know".

Well, I think he did the right thing by bringing it here. "I don't know if this is FPP material" doesn't really belong in the post itself.
posted by scarabic at 12:41 PM on March 23, 2005


Can we just delete or close this and let the FPP and the thread in question on the blue determine it's own life, as usual?

Same answer to this: not if people are going to MeTa the post *in* the post itself. You kinda made it impossible for the post to just have its own natural life, already, didn't you?
posted by scarabic at 12:43 PM on March 23, 2005


Do you guys know there's a E2 FPP right now?

Just going for maximum recursivity. Or whatever. I wish I was CZ so it could really count.
posted by OmieWise at 12:47 PM on March 23, 2005


DevilsAdvocate writes "CZ did the right thing by bringing it here. Actually, the people criticizing the post in the thread should have done that, but given that they didn't, it's appropriate for CZ to do so."

DevilsAdvocate's right, and props to Count Ziggurat for being a stand-up guy, by discussing this in the right place.

As to the post, it's not clear whether the point was to show off the elf humor or E2 as "best of the web".

Eh, I didn't find the elf thing too funny, but then, I'm apparently rather humorless anyway. For dour folks like me, a few other slices of E2 would might have given those of us not into the humor something else about E2 to appreciate.

(Like, I just can't get enough of this Terry Schiavo stuff, and I can't seem to find it anywhere. Does E2 have a Newsfilter section?)
posted by orthogonality at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2005


<mosch> #mefi sucks. Posted by mosch.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2005


Sweet C'thulhu! That's criticism? Grow some more hide!

I thought it was pretty apparent that my questioning of the worthiness of the thread itself was overshadowed by my appreciation of the article and website in question. If I had thought that it totally sucked, I wouldn't have bothered to contribute to the thread with my own Igloowhite links.

This is just way, way too meta for my sleep deprived brain. I'm totally going to go take a nap and let the fallout land where it may.

Apologies, Count Ziggurat. But seriously, chill. You're totally over-meta-moderating your own thread. You're supposed to take a step back and take your licks with a cool and collected non-chalance. At least my very mild complaint wasn't something asnine like "OMFG YOU N00B! I can't believe you've never read that before!" or something.
posted by loquacious at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2005


OmieWise writes "Do you guys know there's a E2 FPP right now?

"Just going for maximum recursivity. Or whatever. I wish I was CZ so it could really count."


Oh, man, best laugh I've had all day. Thanks Omiewise. I actually am literally LOLing, for once.
posted by orthogonality at 12:50 PM on March 23, 2005


i don't think there are enough threads about orthongonality.
posted by Stynxno at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2005


Sweet C'thulhu! That's criticism? Grow some more hide!

My hide is not the problen. No one's offended. It's a simple matter of definitions. You don't critique a post in the post itself. You do it here. Make as many J.P. Lovecraft references as you want, but that won't change.

I thought it was pretty apparent that my questioning of the worthiness of the thread itself was overshadowed by my appreciation of the article and website in question.


Again, I don't think there are any hard feelings. You weren't mean or anything. But when you said this:

Sweet merciful holy crap, Count Ziggurat! You shouldn't have called out your own post.

...you were wrong. And I think the only person here who's not chill is you, so cool it with the colorful ejaculations.
posted by scarabic at 12:55 PM on March 23, 2005


...so cool it with the colorful ejaculations.

Oh, man. Why must I be a visual person?
posted by idest at 1:01 PM on March 23, 2005


Rainbow ejaculate is the new black.
posted by sciurus at 1:02 PM on March 23, 2005


I'm interested to see how this pans out. If links to E2 goodness are ok, I've got a list of quality links so long it'll last me the rest of my life. I've got that site wired like electrodes to the pleasure center of my brain.

And yes, according to the current MeFi etiquette rules probably shouldn't have even hinted at questioning the validity of the link publicly in-thread. Apologies again. I just didn't think it was worth a whole MeTa thread. The whole concept of just linking to a single E2 node on MeFi is foreign to me. It feels like linking to a single slashdot article or post or something.

On preview: I'll ejaculate color wherever I please when scribing my writ, nunshitter. Sorry, it's pathological. You don't have to like it or like me for it, but asking me to modify my writing style? The answer is simply "No". Don't read it or reply to it then. I've made people laugh in the past and will do so in the future. Taste and style varies.
posted by loquacious at 1:07 PM on March 23, 2005


e2's fine.

and this is very telling--best of the web is more than some here think. If people are second-guessing themselves and not posting, or posting and then coming here to meTa themselves, maybe it's time to lay off on the "this is best of the web?" cracks in the blue.
posted by amberglow at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2005


I for one appreciate loquacious's colorful ejaculations.

(saying 'I for one appreciate loquacious's colorful ejaculations' is the new black)
posted by iconomy at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2005


loquacious: "Sweet merciful holy crap, Count Ziggurat!"

There you go earning your user name again. This is my new favorite phrase, as it works in almost any context. I shall try to repeat it to everyone I meet today.
posted by koeselitz at 1:15 PM on March 23, 2005


Oh and I've never heard of E2 either.

(saying "I've never heard of E2 either" is the new "I for one appreciate loquacious's colorful ejaculations")
posted by iconomy at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2005


Sound advice, amberglow. I'll take it to heart.

Frankly, I don't know what I was thinking and wish I could undo the overly critical portion of my first post. I want more MeFi goodness, not less, even if that means a few more supposedly sub-par FPPs here and there. (That last is totally and emphatically not directed at CZ or the thread in question here, just speaking generally.)

*head spins while doing a headspin*
posted by loquacious at 1:17 PM on March 23, 2005


I lika da post! It make me laff! Why you no lika da post?
posted by Scooter at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2005


This would actually be a good time to discuss my greatest fear of all.

One of these days someone is going to come up with some arcane combination of links and discussing said links with more links in such a paradox of logic and such a sheer affront to common sense that it will destroy the entire Universe with its absurdity.

And on that day I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
posted by loquacious at 1:25 PM on March 23, 2005


I generally regard that auto-callout as bad form, but the badness of the form is directly proportional to the number of MeTa posts in the 24 hours preceding the auto-callout, so this one's not so bad.
posted by anapestic at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2005


I thought it was 15 Elvis ways to die and I only thought there was one so I didn't notice it was E2, so all that E2 ejaculating here2 15 ways.
posted by mss at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2005


#mefi is a great place to hash these things out before posting, by the way.

Ha! Hahaha! HAHAHAHHAAAAA!! *ahem* Sorry.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2005


I'd never even heard of it.

Everything2. I was born there. [/Sulu voice]

High fives loquacious
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:35 PM on March 23, 2005


Oh, and scarabic? I wasn't talking about your hide, I was talking about CZs. I've felt your hide. It's quite leathery, bejeweled like the Great Worm Smaug's and impervious to most anything up to but not excluding small arms fire.

But that's neither here nor way over there, as CZ did the right thing despite my fumbling negativity.

And yeah, if everyone went to #mefi for approval before posting, nothing would ever get posted. Well, maybe once a year or something. Rule by committee sucks, especially when that committee is populated by poop-flinging orangutans.
posted by loquacious at 1:38 PM on March 23, 2005


#mefi is a great place to hash these things out before posting, by the way.

that would be a clear violation of the #mefi guidelines.
posted by quonsar at 1:39 PM on March 23, 2005


Word, WolfDaddy. Represent. I've been waiting for you to appear.

When I first found E2, it was like coming home to an amalgam of all the really interesting BBS users I'd met a decade and more prior, way back before the web was even a single HTTP server and consumer ISPs were even a possibility.

I like MeFi for much of the same reasons.
posted by loquacious at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2005


I don't think that the source is the problem. I also don't think that the post is very good. Why? Well, it's not very funny, there's not much to it, and it's about a year and half too late to be topical. I'm not among those that believe that there's something inherently wrong with single-link FPPs, but there should be more to it than that.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 1:47 PM on March 23, 2005


I miss the old black.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:48 PM on March 23, 2005


So, would people be okay with a weekly, biweekly or monthly "loquacious' best of E2" post? There's so much good, underexposed text there it buggers imagination. You just have to know where to look. I could even make each post thematically consistent.

On preview: "It's Raining Florence Henderson" is my new favorite handle, usurping "weapons-grade pandemonium" and "weretable and the undead chairs" for the #1 spot on the list.
posted by loquacious at 1:53 PM on March 23, 2005


E2 mama tambien.
posted by rocketman at 1:59 PM on March 23, 2005


I'd prefer not to have my imagination buggered, if it's all the same to you.
posted by anapestic at 2:00 PM on March 23, 2005


loquacious: "So, would people be okay with a weekly, biweekly or monthly "loquacious' best of E2" post? There's so much good, underexposed text there it buggers imagination."

Sounds good to me. I love having my imagination buggered!

/and thanks to you - and all the others - for the kind words about the name!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:00 PM on March 23, 2005


I'm torn. Having e2 on the frontpage drives traffic (good), slows the servers (bad), and could generate new members (GOOD!). I've been a member at e2 for ~4 years now and there's tons of things worthy of a FPP, but I'm not to sure a single link is going to cut it. (I'm aware I've made no posts...)

How soon before Butterfinger McFlurry gets to over here?
posted by PantsOfSCIENCE at 2:02 PM on March 23, 2005


amberglow writes "and this is very telling--best of the web is more than some here think. If people are second-guessing themselves and not posting, or posting and then coming here to meTa themselves, maybe it's time to lay off on the "this is best of the web?" cracks in the blue."

Really amberglow, was that the best comment you could make? Was your comment really the best of the web? (Sorry, OmieWise has me on a self-referential kick.)

In all seriousness, amberglow's right (as usual). There almost seems to be a subset of mefites who don't really enjoy anything -- including best of the web -- as much as they enjoy making call outs and carping. As vigilant as some of these folks are about sitting at their PCs and "protecting MetaFilter" from (insert bogeyman of choice), you have to wonder why they haven't been reported as missing by their friends and family.

But when that vigilance is so extreme that people are reluctant to post at all for fear of criticism, we all lose.

If a post in the blue sucks, well, we can all pretty much see that for ourselves. If we can't, for some subtle reason, by all means, call it out here. But if you think it's so obvious that calling out in the blue is justified, then calling out in the blue isn't necessary.

Stynxno writes "i don't think there are enough threads about [orthogonality]."

Hey, you had your chance to pile on me yesterday, when I got called out for what the person doing the call-out didn't realize was sarcasm. And then got called out for being too sarcastic. And too liberal. And too conservative. Hell, you could have probably called me Jimmy Hoffa's ghost in that head and someone would have enthusiastically agreed.
posted by orthogonality at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2005


I was going to agree with Stynxno's comment about how orthogonality was "Jimmy Hoffa's ghost in that head"....but I really don't understand it.

"____ is the new black" is the new black.
posted by graventy at 2:28 PM on March 23, 2005


e2's fine.

B-to-the-e
is even better!

/pepsiblue
posted by me3dia at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2005


So, who's head, who's thread, and who's dead? Jimmy Hoffa, this discussion, or Elves? I'm so confused. *goes back to beating up five year olds*
posted by Arch Stanton at 2:33 PM on March 23, 2005


wait ortho, you're not Jimmy Hoffa's ghost?

aw...we could have had Congress ghostbust you--that's kinda their job now anyway. ; >
posted by amberglow at 2:42 PM on March 23, 2005


Whenever I (rarely, and usually only in support of another primary link or as a rebuttal in a thread) link to one of my own e2 writeups, I mark it as a self-link. I wrote it, it came out of my brainmatter, and it's part of another community type website that could be considered blog-ish (but oh, so much more as well). I tend not to post other e2 user's links here (if I ever have, I can't recall at the moment) because--well, I don't know why, and that's the new black's second cousin once removed.

It's Raining Florence Henderson ... better (TM) that fast before I name my next big boy band that.
posted by WolfDaddy at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2005


I don't think that all blue callouts are automatically awful. As has been pointed out before, lots and lots of people who play in the blue never read make it to the gray (I blame a deep-seated and perhaps unconscious fear of the Confederacy), so making a comment in here doesn't help them. And when someone doesn't have an email address in their profile (as CZ doesn't), then a polite suggestion in the blue is not such a big deal.
posted by anapestic at 2:47 PM on March 23, 2005


i don't think there are enough threads about orthongonality. - Stynxno

It seems to come in waves, doesn't it? For a couple of days it's all about y2karl, then AlexReynolds, then (what was the name of the girl whom someone suggested we could give money to, then a bunch of people piled on saying don't trust her and it was a big mess) now orthogonality. Who's next? Any volunteers?
posted by raedyn at 2:47 PM on March 23, 2005


I've got twelve minutes in the how-long-until-someone-creates-a-Jimmy-Hoffa's-ghost-sockpuppet-account pool.
posted by anapestic at 2:49 PM on March 23, 2005


WolfDaddy: "before I name my next big boy band that."

That would be awesome! Be my guest!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:52 PM on March 23, 2005


modify my writing style? The answer is simply "No".

Wouldn't have it any other way. I was just reading you as:

"Great horny sores of syphillitic Satan!!! Don't get so excited!!! By the jiggling of the Pope-scrote, people!!! Don't over-react!"

By all means please continue ejaculating the rainbow. Just be fair with the CZ (which you have been, now).
posted by scarabic at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2005


WolfDaddy: "before I name my next big boy band that."

That would be awesome! Be my guest!

I call the "cute, yet with a little bit of an edge" role. It'sRaining can be the boyish one, and Wolf the older, slightly heavier one. ; >

(it really is a wonderful username--the name of the year so far.)
posted by amberglow at 4:17 PM on March 23, 2005


rocketman wins.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:24 PM on March 23, 2005


1. 54 comments about E2 or not to E2?

2. 50 comments since loquacious said "Sweet merciful holy crap, Count Ziggurat! You shouldn't have called out your own post" and no-one's mentioned Miguel?

3. OMG, I mentioned Miguel! If someone says his name two more times he'll appear!

4. Heh, iconomy's funny. She's the new black.
posted by Shane at 5:32 PM on March 23, 2005


Oops: Just ONE more time will do it now...
posted by Shane at 5:37 PM on March 23, 2005


Miguel! Miguel!

where is that bastard?

and rocketman does win. : >
posted by amberglow at 5:38 PM on March 23, 2005


Who's next? Any volunteers?

Already had my 15 minutes.
posted by NickDouglas at 10:05 PM on March 23, 2005


I've never heard of E2.

CZ did the right thing in bringing it up here.

It says a lot about the grey that people see any question about the validity of a post as a "callout". CZ posted an "etiquette / policy" post, asking about etiquette and policy. The most useful etiquette / policy questions (though almost never asked) should be about your own posts (or asked about posts you are considering making), as that indicates you are making sure that you are doing the right thing.

Instead, we've reached the point where "etiquette / policy" seems to be a code word for "complaining about other people". Sure, that's a valid use of MeTa and "etiquette / policy", but for people to be taking the position "you shouldn't ask about etiquette / policy unless you're attacking someone else's post" seems bizarre to me. It's the equivalent of saying "One should only use the expression 'excuse me' in situations such as being bumped into and saying 'excuse me' in a sarcastic, bitter way at the person who bumped into you. You shouldn't say 'excuse me' if you're the person who did the bumping."
posted by Bugbread at 10:07 PM on March 23, 2005


bugbread writes "You shouldn't say 'excuse me' if you're the person who did the bumping."

You shouldn't, because that can be taken as an admission of liability, opening you up to suits for damages.

(Interesting note: apparently the Japanese find that Americans are reluctant to apologize for precisely this fear of admitting liability-- but ironically, having not gotten the apology, the Japanese are sometimes offended enough to bring a suit they'd not have felt it fitting to bring had they simply gotten the apology in the first place.)
posted by orthogonality at 4:05 AM on March 24, 2005


loquacious: "On preview: Yes, scarabic. Didn't you get the memo? You're supposed to read E2. All 1,007,638 nodes and all of the 442,651 writeups by 84,090 users. And I'm going to need a summary of that by, oh, Monday. OK?"

"Mostly harmless."
posted by Plutor at 4:18 AM on March 24, 2005


You've just said everything about Everything2 using two words, and thus God vanishes into a puff of His own irrelevance.

I hope you're happy.
posted by WolfDaddy at 5:11 AM on March 24, 2005


"What? Harmless? Is that all it's got to say? Harmless! One word!"

I wasn't meaning to imply or say that someone shouldn't go to MeTa for any question at all about their own threads. I felt that it wasn't required in this case, and I really didn't mean to disrupt the thread like that. I guess its' difficult for me to conceptualize not having heard of E2.

If anyone has any questions at all about E2 itself, the guidelines both spoken or unspoken, how to node, stuff about existing content, history or anything at all feel free to email me or /msg me from the chatterbox at the same username as this. And if I don't know the answer I'd know who to ask.

E2 always needs more good and fresh content, and I know there's a wealth of special interests and good writers and essayists here. It's a ravenous, amorphous blob, and it wants to suck out the contents of your spongy brain. Even if you find me obnoxious, I don't represent the body of E2, so don't let that stop you from giving it a try and adding your own knowledge or imagination to the nodegel. Besides, they probably find me obnoxious as well.

/me wanders off with WolfDaddy to the nearest pub for a few rounds and tales of the terrible wars so long ago between E2 and H2G2 before the impending collapse of the universe.
posted by loquacious at 5:26 AM on March 24, 2005


I'll buy a round or four if you two will let me listen in. By the way, I loved "You love these machines. These machines are dead. A love story." Thanks for the heads-up. And I don't actually know much about E2; I'd really like to see more like that on the big blue filter — why not? Nobody better than connoisseurs of E2 to clue us in to the jewels. (Of course, if I'm in a distinct minority in not being deep in the know about E2, just delete and overwrite that whole last sentiment. I love this user. This user is dead. A MeFi tragedy.)
posted by taz at 6:48 AM on March 24, 2005


i don't think there are enough threads about orthongonality. - Stynxno

Who's next? Any volunteers? - me

Apparently I jumped the gun. Apparetnly we're not done with orthogonality yet.
posted by raedyn at 9:01 AM on March 24, 2005


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