Are we twelve? April 17, 2005 11:32 PM   Subscribe

Are we twelve?
posted by mek to Etiquette/Policy at 11:32 PM (59 comments total)

Wow, doesn't time fly when you're having fun? I see it is already time for our next round of "let's smack y2karl around just for the hell of it".

To answer your question, it would appear that, yes, we are 12.
posted by dg at 11:38 PM on April 17, 2005


As an FYI, I don't want to rehash "the y2karl question." Judging by the deuces dropped into this thread, however, it looks like a lot of you DO.

Please do so here, and keep it off the blue.
posted by mek at 11:44 PM on April 17, 2005


Please do so here, and keep it off the blue.

My bad. Sorry!

I'd like to incorporate my comments in the blue by reference.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 12:14 AM on April 18, 2005


In answer to your question: yes, it's part of the demographic.

I put it down to a lack of interest, boredom or plain old "I think your shit stinks, ergo, let me shit all over it." It's online normal. No big deal.
posted by gsb at 2:18 AM on April 18, 2005


gsb, I thought that your thread was an excellent demonstration of joint action, shared experience and mutual trust in the anonymous online domain, reasserting the humanity of the participants...
blah.

Also, I laughed.
posted by NinjaPirate at 2:35 AM on April 18, 2005


the karl hate is so 2004
posted by matteo at 4:04 AM on April 18, 2005


Ninjapirate, I concur. However, I did not laugh, I grabbed my balls and coughed.
posted by gsb at 4:09 AM on April 18, 2005


After three years people are bored of talking about Iraq. Who woulda thunk it?

Even the people in that thread defending y2karl can't be bothered discussing the links - that probably tells you all you need to know.
posted by dodgygeezer at 4:34 AM on April 18, 2005


I love y2karl.
posted by caddis at 6:27 AM on April 18, 2005


After three years people are bored of talking about Iraq.

Edit: After three years people with short attention spans and minimal interest in the world beyond their computer screens are bored of talking about Iraq.

"I'm tired of hearing about the barbarians! Barbarians, barbarians, barbarians! Can't we talk about fun stuff, like what sauce to use with roasted dormice? What, are the barbarians going to destroy the Empire or something? I don't think so!!!"
posted by languagehat at 6:55 AM on April 18, 2005


dodgygeezer : "After three years people are bored of talking about Iraq."

Dick Chaney : "Excellent... Smithers, it appears we have won!"

dodgygeezer : "boo-bies..."
posted by crunchland at 7:05 AM on April 18, 2005


Yea... that's it. You guys have solved the mystery. Now, you can stand a little taller, even moreso than you already do.

Now get in there and start discussin'.
posted by Witty at 7:10 AM on April 18, 2005


It really is a sad commentary on metafilter that a post about some washed-up actors penis can get so much attention.
posted by crunchland at 7:23 AM on April 18, 2005


But it's such a nice, clean penis.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:29 AM on April 18, 2005


After three years people with short attention spans and minimal interest in the world beyond their computer screens are bored of talking about Iraq.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I like what's being implied in some comments here. You either support the Iraqi people's struggle against tyrany or you're for Tony Danza's cock. What sort of dumb argument is that?

y2karl's post is dull, worthy stuff - it hardly deserves deletion but unsurprisingly it gets treated badly and fails to create any interesting discussion. Why? Because everyone's sick and tired of talking about it, and we already what people are going to say before they hit the keys on their keyboard. All I'm saying is I'm against bad posts no matter what the subject matter, and if you make a bad post you should expect to have a few tomatoes thrown at you.
posted by dodgygeezer at 7:50 AM on April 18, 2005


Karl is funny. He's like those guys in the movies that stand on the corner screaming with the sandwich-signs which say "The End is Nigh." I can just see it: ten years from now, if Iraq is a functioning and rebuilding democracy, Karl will still be telling us that is all a sham and, in reality, things are horrible and miserable there. Karl has never met a bit of good news he couldn't make an effort to refute. Optimism and the hope that maybe good things may happen in the Middle East stand no chance as long as we have karl to protect us.
posted by dios at 7:57 AM on April 18, 2005


dios is funny. He's like those old ladies in the movies that collect stray cats, dozens of them, and their houses drown in cat shit and decay and the stench must be unbearable but they just don't realize it, until the cops finally come. I can just see it: ten years from now, if Iraq is in the ayatollahs hands (or if New York or DC look like Hiroshima did in 1946), dios will still be telling us that is all a sham and, in reality, things are great and Bush did such a great job and the war in terror is making progress.
dios has never met a bit of news about the dead American GI's or the American policy of torturing prisoners that he couldn't make an effort to defend. Realism and the decency to admit that maybe very bad things things have happened because of Bush's mistakes in the Middle East stand no chance as long as we have dios to protect us.

___

can't be bothered discussing the links

bah, some of us -- a minorit, I know -- do read the links. it should be the whole point of this site, more important the discussion -- link something good that people may want to read.
posted by matteo at 8:16 AM on April 18, 2005


Thanks, gsb, I had missed that post because, well, I tend to go past y2karl's posts (the small text hurts me). Thanks for the laugh (scared the kitties!).

Oh, and is there really any doubt that we're a bunch of twelve-year olds?!
posted by deborah at 8:22 AM on April 18, 2005


matteo, ouch! Feel the burn!!
/me high-fives matteo.

Except for the fact that I am critical of Bush for many things.... I just don't believe that he/America is the source of all the evil in the world. Thus, my bona fides isn't sufficient here so I get labeled a Bush shill.

By the way, that was a superb defense of karl's (and your) position!
posted by dios at 8:23 AM on April 18, 2005


Karl is funny. He's like those guys in the movies that stand on the corner screaming with the sandwich-signs which say "The End is Nigh." I can just see it: ten years from now, if Iraq is a functioning and rebuilding democracy, Karl will still be telling us that is all a sham and, in reality, things are horrible and miserable there. Karl has never met a bit of good news he couldn't make an effort to refute. Optimism and the hope that maybe good things may happen in the Middle East stand no chance as long as we have karl to protect us.
posted by dios at 7:57 AM PST on April 18


God, I miss Steve@Linnwood.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:42 AM on April 18, 2005


The response to the Y2karl thread frustrates me because it's comments like those in the thread that seem to cause valuable members to leave. Yes, people maybe tired of his Iraq posts, but you can scroll past them, and some of his posts (like his music ones) are incredibly interesting.
posted by drezdn at 8:51 AM on April 18, 2005


I just don't believe that he/America is the source of all the evil in the world.

I suspect that karl doesn't believe that, either. what do you think?
posted by matteo at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2005


I tried to read a y2karl post but all I could think about how is my web accesses were logged and how I'd have to contact mathowie to remove those logs
posted by angry modem at 8:58 AM on April 18, 2005


The response to the Y2karl thread frustrates me because it's comments like those in the thread that seem to cause valuable members to leave.

You mean the drama queens?
posted by angry modem at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2005


Optimus Chyme: Really?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2005


I disagree with Y2K's worldview and most of his opinions. But he sure does come off looking better than his critics in these knee-jerk pile-ons that accompany his every post. And if he brings up Iraq a lot--well, it is the most important story of our time. It would be sad if it was not posted on the blue every other day or so. Yeah he has an axe to grind, and his points would be better made by someone else at this time, but let the guy be already.
posted by LarryC at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2005


Karl is THE MAN.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:23 AM on April 18, 2005


Screw overly-long comments, what we need is a mandatory minimum comment length. If everything you wrote had to be at least twelve words, Witty and Mick wouldn't be able to shit in threads anymore.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:27 AM on April 18, 2005


I think y2karl's reaction to all of this is spot-on. He believes that what he does is vital, necessary, and useful for MeFi. He also feels that because it's so good, he's above criticism and doesn't often react to the negativity within his threads. He just pushes more links and more information.

It's you guys, the whiners, that ruin the thread. If you didn't react and scrolled past the stupid comments, you might be able to sustain a decent conversation. Instead you battle the trolls and one-liners like they're the most important part of thread.

If you feel like something shouldn't be in a thread, flag it and move on. The people who find the need to crap in threads won't find your criticism of any value anyway. If fact, they'll use that as fuel to further derail a thread.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2005


You mean the drama queens?

He meant the trolls, dear, the trolls. Pay attention.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:17 AM on April 18, 2005


Optimus Chyme: Really?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:00 AM PST on April 18


Yup. I'd rather read a thousand of your posts than one more of dios's ad-homs, e-buddy.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2005


Oh, god, me too.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2005


XQUZ: You don't think they'd just round it out with "shit fuck titty bitch" until they got to 12?
posted by klangklangston at 1:20 PM on April 18, 2005


If you feel like something shouldn't be in a thread, flag it and move on.

I agree with that. and I did flag those comments as noise this morning (my time). They are still there and I'm about to go to bed.
posted by dabitch at 1:40 PM on April 18, 2005


"if he brings up Iraq a lot--well, it is the most important story of our time..."

Only if you subscribe to the US conservative agenda.
posted by mischief at 2:17 PM on April 18, 2005


What really bothers me is that shitting in threads really is just accepted behavior, these days. It's worse that the same people who continually shit in blue with their idiotic, pointless comments are the one that'll whine and whine about whether something is truly best of the web.

mathowie please stop this. Make an example if you have to. I don't look forward to the days when more than half the comments on any given thread are worthless. Yes there are threads like the Danza thread where people need to let go but this shouldn be a rare event.

(I won't even go into how y2karl gets targetted by these assholes. It's obvious most of them don't even read y2karl's posts and links they just want a chance to get their licks in.)
posted by nixerman at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2005


and I did flag those comments as noise this morning (my time). They are still there and I'm about to go to bed.

It's really not mathowie's job to babysit us (or act as the ever-present hall monitor). If you don't have the self-restraint to ignore them, you're part of the problem.

Which isn't to say that I'm giving trolls and assholes a free pass. But quite frankly, no amount of bitching and moaning is going to make those select few stop. And, for the most part, since it only occurs in political/religious/fat threads, I feel happy knowing that it's isolated.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:33 PM on April 18, 2005


I bet one ceiling light matt disnae show up in this thread.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2005


Flagging messages on Metafilter is like pushing the elevator button, or the button at the crosswalk, more than once ... it may (very) temporarily makes the presser feel better, but it doesn't actially cause anything to happen.
posted by crunchland at 2:45 PM on April 18, 2005


I bet one ceiling light matt disnae show up in this thread.

Now there's a ceiling light on offer, I wouldn't be so sure.
posted by dodgygeezer at 2:54 PM on April 18, 2005


crunchland: I'm pretty sure that everytime you press a button for the elevator or crosswalk, the tiny wo/man inside realizes that there is one more person waiting, and speeds up accordingly. I don't have conclusive evidence, but anecdotal evidence seems to back me up on this one. ;)
posted by schyler523 at 3:01 PM on April 18, 2005


Actually, schyler523, I have long suspected that those buttons are actually a delay mechanism and that, every time you press the button, the waiting period starts again. No evidence for this either, but it seems more likely given the apparent mindset of people who design these things.
posted by dg at 3:42 PM on April 18, 2005


It is my job to be one of those tiny workers inside the elevator/crosswalk buttons, and I can say definitively that we scan your souls before deciding whether or not to call down the elevator/change the walk-light, and that those of you who have rotten luck with this are simply bad, bad people.
posted by taz at 3:59 PM on April 18, 2005


I'd like to incorporate my comments in the blue by reference.

Your distorted nonsense would be a lame callout in the gray, too, devil. You really don't have a point here; you ridiculously overstated the facts (even as you linked to them) to attack y2karl's posting history, which, for all its wordiness, is still generally a model for how to make political posts in the blue without bullshit opinioneering.

You're simply wrong, and need to back off from this one as quickly as you can to save whatever face you have left.
posted by mediareport at 4:26 PM on April 18, 2005


Meta commentary in the blue is ALWAYS a net loss, always destructive, and it always worsens the signal to noise ratio, because the one inescapable statement made by the presence of meta commentary in the blue is "the blue is a good place for meta commentary," when it NEVER is.

If something about the execution or topic selection of a post in the blue disappoints, there are a wide array of options available to you: make it better without bitching by your own contribution, flag it, email the author, or MetaTalk it.

Pissing about it in the blue is nothing but look-at-me wanking by the complaint's author.
posted by NortonDC at 5:55 PM on April 18, 2005


I suppose this is as good a thread as any to ask. Didn't there used to be a wikipedia entry about y2karl? I can't seem to find it.
posted by Kattullus at 6:46 PM on April 18, 2005


I just want to say, this post confused me as I somehow connected it with Ocean's Twelve, or something, and thought you were asking if we were a group of twelve, and I was like, dude, we're more than 20,000, aren't we? but then I thought maybe you meant are there twelve of us who have taken on (some specific task) and then I just felt out of the loop because I didn't know what task you were talking about.
Ok, talk to you later.
posted by mdn at 6:56 PM on April 18, 2005


You're simply wrong, and need to back off from this one as quickly as you can to save whatever face you have left.

I disagree and I think that you look the fool here for dredging up an issue that was pretty much settled. I question your bias, however, in the interest of moving along, I'm letting it rest.

Let's let bygones be bygones.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 8:00 PM on April 18, 2005


dredging up an issue that was pretty much settled

I'm sorry, I thought I was participating in an active thread. Not to mention that you are hilariously still insisting that you've done nothing wrong. Oh, and nice try on the "bias" thing, but I'm not the one who deliberately overstated his own evidence here - evidence which completely fails to back up your claim that y2karl is a one-note poster whose calm links to Iraq analyses are somehow unwelcome.

Bias, indeed. You're way off base in thinking this would have been a smart callout in MeTa. You would have been chewed alive down that path, too.
posted by mediareport at 8:10 PM on April 18, 2005


Okay, mediareport. You asked for it. I was perfectly happy to live and let live here.

1 - If you took the time to read the original thread you'll note that that it's full of absolute shit like "I EAT FRONT PAGE SPACE."

2 - My first comment in that thread was in direct response to orthogonality's callout of the crap in the thread. That little italic text at the top of my comment called a quote. That meanst that orthagonality wrote it, and I'm commenting on it.

3 - Note that the first line of my comment reads "I'm not defending those who post one-line inanities about y2karl's posts". I'm not sure how more clear I could be about the fact that I'm anti-thread-shit. I agree fully that shit in threads needs to be stopped. "I EAT FRONT PAGE SPACE" benefits nobody. I was joining an existing discussion at that point (started by orthogonality and contributed to by aeschenkaros) and offering an opinion.

4 - Now if you want to get all pedantic about things then yes, I wrote the words "every day" about y2karl's frequency of posting. I don't think that there is anybody on MeFi who is stupid enough (perhaps other than yourself) to actually take that literally. It's explained pretty well further down the page. If I were trying to overstate the evidence then why in the world would I have linked directly to the posting history? Have you ever heard of metaphor?

This is the part in the blue where languagehat and I amicably settled our differences and acted like grown-ups. I might follow his lead, if I were you.

5 - I apologized for commenting in the blue. At the time I was responding to an active thread directly and hadn't checked the grey to see the callout. I recognize the breach of ettiquite, but the conversation was going on over there.

6 - I never claimed this was a callout. You're the one using those words. Stop.

Now I don't know if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, or had a shitty day at work, or what. But I do know that I seem to be the one who wandered into the wrong side of your case of the Mondays.

I'm willing to lay down the guns here and walk away like a man. How about we call it a day and start afresh tomorrow? Your blog makes you seem like a pretty decent human being and I'd like to continue to read your posts. I don't agree with all of them, but there have been some highlights. I think you post in a responsible manner that brings light to MetaFilter and I'm sorry if I've ever called you out.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 8:29 PM on April 18, 2005


"That little italic text at the top of my comment called a quote."

No, quote marks identify a quote; italics is just eye candy. ;-P
posted by mischief at 8:53 PM on April 18, 2005


I'm interested in what's going on in Iraq. I believe it is important, whether you're a conservative or liberal or pretty much anyone else.

I'm also tired of discussing it. I haven't seen a new or interesting comment about it in at least a year. All Iraq threads are now basically filled with comments I can predict, from both sides. Hell, I could make puppet accounts and carry out a discussion of Iraq from both sides, and the only thing that would give me away is that all the posters would be new and each post would be too long.

All that said, y2karl has slowed up a lot, and I certainly don't see any problems with his posts. It's not like the heydey of troutfishing, a great guy who unfortunately felt the need to post Iraqfilter pretty much daily. If anyone else had posted the links y2karl did, they wouldn't get nearly as much flak.

As such, I take a novel (patent pending) approach to his threads: I don't click on them. Oh, yes, I realize that the "don't click it" argument has its weaknesses: Telling someone not to click on a page of horribly vile or puerile or otherwise awful content de facto promotes it (silence is usually taken to be consent). But y2karl's posts aren't standard Newsfilter, or Farkfilter, or any of the other often trotted out filters. If the front page was looking like it did last year (every third post being about Iraq), then I'd have a problem. But as it is, the Iraqfilter has calmed down enough that a post about Iraq (as far as I can see) is not so much "Iraqfilter" as "a post about Iraq".

So I join my enemies in saying: "Don't click on it. If it gets out of hand, then complain about it."

Side note: People think Japan is high tech because of the cell phones or car navs or transforming robots. They're wrong. It's high tech because pushing the button at a crosswalk will cause the light to go from green to red in about 5 seconds, allowing you to cross.
posted by Bugbread at 9:07 PM on April 18, 2005


"No, quote marks identify a quote; italics is just eye candy. ;-P"
posted by mischief


Touche. You really do live up to your name. :)
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 9:20 PM on April 18, 2005


I read the thread, devil. Your first comment accused y2karl of "anti-social behavior" and helpfully suggested, "One way of correcting anti-social behavior is to use social pressure to encourage the miscreant to get off their soap box and join the rest of the conversation."

Miscreant? That's rich. But, you say, "I apologized for commenting in the blue," as if that renders invisible the more directly moronic bullshit that was the content of your comment. That's why I noted it would have been just as shitty a thing to say here.

I know, y2karl doesn't need me to defend him. But as I watched the thread I just thought it was hilarious for you to take on the noble mantle and "walk away like a man" while leaving that garbage hanging in the air. Yeah, that's real noble of you.

But, ok, let's do what you want. Let's walk away.

*waves*

Seeya.
posted by mediareport at 10:42 PM on April 18, 2005



Karl is funny. He's like those guys in the movies that stand on the corner screaming with the sandwich-signs which say "The End is Nigh."
posted by dios at 8:23 AM PST on April 18 [!]


Oh dear. Finally I've hit upon a dios post which leaves me completely speechless. (A nice change, that.)
posted by mek at 11:33 PM on April 18, 2005


By way of apology - I didn't realize that your problem was the "miscreant" bit. I honsetly thought it was the post count or the fact of being on the blue and I'd entirely forogtten that part of the comment. That was not an appropriate word for me to have used and I apologize to you, y2karl, and the MeFi community for any sort of ad hominem attack on y2karl. I disagree with his posting style, but he's a beloved member of the MeFi family and I don't want to create the impression that I personally dislike him. 100% honest. You seem like a decent guy (I grew up in VA, right around the corner from NC) and y2karl does as well. I didn't mean to leave garbage hanging in the air and I hope that this resolves it.

*waves*

Meet ya back here next week for another round.

*waves*
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 12:00 AM on April 19, 2005


y2karl rocks.
posted by LouReedsSon at 3:38 AM on April 19, 2005


I also (heart) y2karl.

shit fuck titty bitch cock piss cunt goddamn
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:55 AM on April 19, 2005


*hands devil back his noble mantle*
posted by mediareport at 8:04 AM on April 19, 2005


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