Tired old argument May 3, 2005 2:36 PM   Subscribe

This thread should be fun.

Really? I hate to spoil the ending for you, but this thread has already been fun over and over and over and over. It always goes the same way. Thanks for summarizing it for us, but is there some purpose in posting the results of a Google news search for "smoking" other than to rehash the same old tired argument yet again?
posted by casu marzu to Etiquette/Policy at 2:36 PM (34 comments total)

Yeah, I did flag it. The entire purpose of this post is to renew an endless argument.
posted by casu marzu at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2005


Hmm.. I agree. But a familiar country path on a sunny sunday afternoon is just as fun as it was the week before.
posted by delmoi at 2:40 PM on May 3, 2005


no, he means THIS post.
posted by quonsar at 2:41 PM on May 3, 2005


Actually, no it wasn't just an attempt to renew an endless argument. I saw the article about Germany wanting to ban smoking in cars, which I find ridiculous, and then I had the idea to turn it into a humorous conversation, yes, summarizing some of the issues and illustrating the round-and-round nature of the debate. I guess you missed that in your eagerness to complain. But thanks for my first MeTa callout.
posted by goatdog at 2:45 PM on May 3, 2005


goatdog: Well, to be honest I don't like the post that much, all you're really doing is rehashing everything by including all of those links. The new thing (smoking in cars) gets burried. Honestly, I think it would have been better if you'd just linked the first thing (explaning what we were clicking on).
posted by delmoi at 2:50 PM on May 3, 2005


What delmoi said. Perhaps a link to the United Pro-Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter (their International Smokers Rights Conference is coming up in June at Caesar's Palace!) would have been a better bolster of your main link.
posted by me3dia at 2:55 PM on May 3, 2005


(strikes flamboyant actor's pose)

I'm hated for my attempts to introduce creativity! Art! Feeling!

(flounces home)

Sorry you guys didn't like it. But honestly, the goal was not to troll (like that rhyme?), it was to make an interesting post.
posted by goatdog at 2:56 PM on May 3, 2005


I agree. Crap post. The comments section was never intended to be a place to have a 'humorous conversation', especially about a subject as volatile as this.

I know. I should have stayed out of it then. I accept whatever punishment is coming to me.

I prefer to be made to wear a crown of thorns and drag a giant cross of wood across town, but whatever.
posted by item at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2005


I had the idea to turn it into a humorous conversation

This is a sure indicator of a bad MeFi post. And don't be so defensive; if you're told you made a lousy post, you can retreat into dignified silence or say "Sorry, I'll try to do better next time," but "I guess you missed that in your eagerness to complain" just makes you look like a whiner.

On preview: That's more like it.
posted by languagehat at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2005


By "humorous conversation", I didn't mean the comments section, I meant the post itself (its conversational form). Anyway, lesson learned. Sorry I bitched at you, casu marzu.
posted by goatdog at 3:01 PM on May 3, 2005


I liked the presentation a lot. But I'm with everyone who doesn't like the topic.
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:06 PM on May 3, 2005


goatdog: That's ok. I'm used to it and I usually deserve it -- including this time.

As q points out, this thread right here as as tired as the other one. We're in the same club.
posted by casu marzu at 3:08 PM on May 3, 2005


it's all crap these days. goatdog put some effort into his. seen the devil sign post yet?
posted by quonsar at 3:27 PM on May 3, 2005


Ah for fuck's sake, which one of you held a gun to casu marzu's head and made him read a topic he doesn't like?

You don't like the topic, don't read the topic.

MetaFilter posts are as varied as MetaFilter users, and you shouldn't expect you'll like every post. Know where you can find every post exactly as you like it? Your own blog.

This is a community, not a groupthink choir.
posted by orthogonality at 3:29 PM on May 3, 2005


No, ortho, I didn't even read the thread. That's the point -- I don't have to read the thread, because that thread has already been done to death here. It's even worse than IraqFilter, in the sense that no new information is ever added to the system. No one is going listen to anyone else, and no one's point of view is going to change. It'll be all the same shrill evangelizing and regurgitation of talking points found in all of the other smoking threads. However, if you poke your head in there and find that I'm wrong, feel free to come back over here and gloat about it.

If you think I didn't know that I could skip posts until you lectured me about it then you're even more fucking arrogant and condescending than I thought. I skip the vast majority of posts for a variety of reasons. However, contrary to what you seem to think, not every post is a unique and precious snowflake. This post was simply egregious. It doesn't serve any community at all -- except perhaps a community of bloviating assholes such as yourself.
posted by casu marzu at 4:32 PM on May 3, 2005


MetaFilter: Renewing an endless argument.
MetaFilter: I don't have to read the thread.
MetaFilter: A community of bloviating assholes.
posted by mischief at 5:08 PM on May 3, 2005


Keep 'em coming, casu! ;-P
posted by mischief at 5:09 PM on May 3, 2005


Honestly, I think it would have been better if you'd just linked the first thing (explaning what we were clicking on).

And we would have ended up with just the thread that we did -- which justifies goatdog's clever commentary on the format of the argument. Goatdog pulled a small Godwin Analysis, and did it linkfully, and I enjoyed it. It was worth a couple of lines on Metafilter, at any rate.
posted by NickDouglas at 5:26 PM on May 3, 2005


casu marzu writes "No, ortho, I didn't even read the thread.... This post was simply egregious. It doesn't serve any community at all -- except perhaps a community of bloviating assholes such as yourself."

So you weren't affected by the thread. Since your complaint isn't that the thread is intrinsically bad, who was harmed? You're admitting that experienced Mefites like you already know better than to even read the thread, so they're not harmed by it. And the people who enjoy that sort of thread got to enjoy it. And newbies to Metafiler wouldn't have seen the thread previously, so they could enjoy it too.


"However, if you poke your head in there and find that I'm wrong, feel free to come back over here and gloat about it."

Ok. The smoking thread has 55 comments to it, several of which are well developed and politely word arguments for or against, with only five complaints, including your Meta callout. Again, who the fuck was harmed by the thread? Are you just complaining on general principles? I just don't get it: it doesn't harm you or the site.

The smoking thread is interesting enough to get thirty-eight more comments than your Eating Chinese post.

Your post has, at most, only six comments that are on topic. The rest are complaints about the post, or speculation that it's a self-link. Of the on-topic comments none is longer than a paragraph, and none really engendered discussion. I've reproduced all of them below.

So the "bad" post you called out had almost ten times as many on-topic comments as the bad post you posted, and led to several of the longer, thoughtful comments, of which your post has none. Indeed, of the seventeen posts in the Blue today, the smoking post has the second highest number of comments, just a few comments behind the (also oft-visited) post on Evolution vs. Creationism post.

And note that not once in my prior comment or this one, do I insult you personally. But you, safely behind your keyboard, throw around "arrogant" and "condescending" and "bloaviating asshole". I'll leave that for others to judge.

So who is serving the community, casu, and who is stinking the place up? Take a look in the mirror.


In their entirety, the non-complaining posts in casu marzu's thread are:

hackly_fracture writes " The Museum of Chinese in the Americas has a similarly themed exhibit (2nd listing) for a few more weeks for NYers and visitors."

furtive writes " I'm enjoying the breakfast in china link at the moment. Thanks for the link!"

MetalDog writes "So this isn't a link about cannibalism?"

Dallasfilm writes " Curses! Now I'm hungry for chinese food. Oh well, at least I'm only five blocks away from Chinatown."

Mean Mr. Bucket writes ""Jim Fong's close to Mott is my favorite dim sum palace."

Zurishaddai writes "Damn I'm hungry. Those sesame balls hot out of the fryer are sure to please. Of course, MetaFilter prefers [image elided]"

posted by orthogonality at 5:28 PM on May 3, 2005


I had 5 pints and a half-a-pack of Winstons last night.

{hand up}

C'mon, don't leave a brutha hangin'... where my dawgs at?
posted by Witty at 5:32 PM on May 3, 2005


languagehat: And don't be so defensive; if you're told you made a lousy post, you can retreat into dignified silence or say "Sorry, I'll try to do better next time," but "I guess you missed that in your eagerness to complain" just makes you look like a whiner.

On preview: That's more like it.


Heh, how do you think this post makes you look languagehat?
posted by Chuckles at 5:46 PM on May 3, 2005


Metafilter: All the same shrill evangelizing.
posted by Chuckles at 5:49 PM on May 3, 2005


orthoganality, for when you want to make the argument that comment volume means it was a good post.
posted by kavasa at 5:59 PM on May 3, 2005


Hey, I don't know about you guys, but I just heard about this chick Terry Schiavo, who's apparently a vegetable or something and her parents are totally against taking her off life support and stuff.

I think I'll post it to the front page.
posted by shmegegge at 7:44 PM on May 3, 2005


Ya know, Casu, I would like to welcome you to the internet. It's open 24 hours, but some inhabitants are on it for a few moments a day. Some of these inhabitants have very thoughtful things to say about many different topics, and could add quite the contribution to any particular topic, any particular day.

Whilst it's the same topic, this is a new take. This is posted at a new time, with different contributors, a different tone and different links.

I think it's perfectly fine.
You should see a doctor about that knee-jerk you got.
posted by id at 8:02 PM on May 3, 2005


comment volume

wasn't Ortho's only criterion, but was bolstered by his analysis of the comment content, in a particularly thorough beating-down that, if cruel, was fun to read.
posted by NickDouglas at 8:55 PM on May 3, 2005


was fun to read

I thought it was creepy as hell myself.
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:01 PM on May 3, 2005


kavasa writes "orthog[o]nality, for when you want to make the argument that comment volume means it was a good post"

For me, it does, because I read the comments a lot more than I read the links. And even after I read the links, for days and days, there are new comments for me to read. (And thankfully the MetaFilthy extension scrolls me to the first unread comment when I return to a thread.)

More important than my like or dislikes, posts with comments are obviously interesting to whoever made the effort to comment; when I see a bunch of clearly well thought-out comments by multiple Mefites, it's a bit much that one complainer doesn't like the post. Of course, it's his right to not like it, but it's just presumptuous to think that we should treat Meta like the complainer's personal blog and care that he dislikes the post, when so many find it of value.


NickDouglas writes "[comment volume] wasn't Ortho's only criterion, but was bolstered by his analysis of the comment content, in a particularly thorough beating-down that, if cruel, was fun to read."

Glad it was fun, but it wasn't meant to be cruel. I just don't enjoy whiny Meta threads where somebody is so pompous to explain to all 22,000 Mefites and myriad lurkers why he didn't like the post. I really dislike that when it's a post others are clearly enjoying.

I guess I see Mefi like a sampler box or chocolates, or a cornucopia of fruit, daily renewed: I may not like the chocolate coconut or the starfruit, but there are so many other pieces to choose from, that it'd be silly for me to complain about the few pieces I don't like -- especially when there are others who love the coconut or the starfruit anyway. There are plenty of FPPs that I find uninteresting, but I don't expect that everyone else shares my experiences or my tastes.
posted by orthogonality at 9:12 PM on May 3, 2005


C'mon, don't leave a brutha hangin'... where my dawgs at?

A few months back I'd be blowing big smokerings with ya, but I quit smoking thanks to AskMeā„¢. :)
posted by dabitch at 11:53 PM on May 3, 2005


Hey, is that a dabitch slap?
posted by Chuckles at 12:34 AM on May 4, 2005


What thread was that, dabitch?
posted by taz at 12:43 AM on May 4, 2005


Yea... don't keep it a secret.
posted by Witty at 5:17 PM on May 4, 2005


This thread should be fun.
Really? I hate to spoil the ending for you


Does it end with the protagonist getting the sarcasm and posting happily ever after?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:18 PM on May 4, 2005


Note to self: don't start any more arguments about threads intended solely to start arguments with people who are here solely for the purpose of arguing.
posted by casu marzu at 7:25 AM on May 5, 2005


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