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March 2, 2006 8:28 AM   Subscribe

I ... agree with dios. This is a terrible post.
posted by trey to MetaFilter-Related at 8:28 AM (92 comments total)

The poster even admits that there's really no link.
posted by trey at 8:29 AM on March 2, 2006


Yeah. It's just a link to dailykos. If it's so breaking there is no link yet, it does not belong on mefi.
posted by insomnus at 8:30 AM on March 2, 2006


I wanted to wait till morning before flagging it, to see if it hit any other news sites, and I'm still not seeing it anywhere. garbage. delete it now and then we can have a proper thread when it becomes more than just KOS aggrandizing without substance.
posted by shmegegge at 8:42 AM on March 2, 2006


It's not even a dailykos posting, per se, as far as I can see. What's this "diaries" feature on there? Can anyone post one? If so, this "story" is less than a fart in the dark.
posted by scarabic at 8:42 AM on March 2, 2006


Should have been a comment in the existing thread.
posted by mischief at 8:42 AM on March 2, 2006


In my mind, that is officially it. It's all fair game now.

Ominous.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:43 AM on March 2, 2006


There's a better bush bashing thread to be had from that AP katrina video, but I think I've posted too many newsfilter threads as it is.
posted by empath at 8:43 AM on March 2, 2006


scarabic: Yes, anybody can post one, but some of the diaries there are quite good. They have a reputation and recommendation system to filter them.
posted by empath at 8:44 AM on March 2, 2006


This is the epitome of Newsfilter. It's not "the best of the web" if it's NOT. ON. THE FUCKING. WEB.
posted by Eideteker at 8:44 AM on March 2, 2006


I'm dunno what next week's weather will be like, but a forecast 's sure to turn up. Discuss.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2006


If I Had An Anus writes
"Ominous."


I hear's ya. Sort of curious what kink of demon dios can summon. I agree with his larger point however. There is too little substance for too contentious a topic to be posting this on the front page—and I hate the FPP police.
posted by Fezboy! at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2006


Ominous.

one hopes.
posted by matteo at 8:49 AM on March 2, 2006


Well, the link seems to have been fixed the link. A DKos diary is a bit like an FPP here.

whether just posting a diary here could really make something happen?

We haven't made our way to the Vermont legislature yet, and local Democratic Party resolutions aren't necessarily the surest road in, but it's nice to see things become "real" once in a while.

It's important to get the word out to the state legislatures that this is more than a symbolic gesture, and that there really is a role for them to play under the House Rules. I think that little bit of information can make a real difference in how such resolutions are viewed.


Meh.
posted by delmoi at 8:53 AM on March 2, 2006


This is totally not cool, from dios: The only thing that could make this post worse would be if it troutfishing wrote the Kos journal linked to.

Not cool at all.
posted by amberglow at 8:53 AM on March 2, 2006


Wasn't even NewsFilter. It's WishFilter.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2006


kink of demon dios

I know it's a typo, but I find that string of words oddly nifty.
posted by Gator at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2006


Not cool at all.

How is that not cool? dios point seems to be that the only thing that would have made the post worst would be a self-link. On that point, I agree.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:02 AM on March 2, 2006


Agreed. Should be deleted.
posted by Heminator at 9:03 AM on March 2, 2006


deleted.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:06 AM on March 2, 2006


This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jenovus at 9:08 AM on March 2, 2006


I didn't realize it was just a dkos diary, which is on the level of an anonymous blog comment somewhere on blogspot.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:09 AM on March 2, 2006


Yeah, I'm not seeing the non-coolness either.
posted by cortex at 9:10 AM on March 2, 2006


dios talk, mathowie listen.
dios powerful god.
posted by nofundy at 9:15 AM on March 2, 2006


In my mind, that is officially not it. It isn't all fair game now. That this post has a stamp of disapproval means standard are offically regarded.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:31 AM on March 2, 2006


In my mind, that is officially it. It's all fair game now.


Metafilter: Order maintainance policing since 1999.
posted by kosem at 9:39 AM on March 2, 2006


dios talk, mathowie listen.
dios powerful god.
posted by nofundy at 12:15 PM EST on March 2 [!]


That is just RIDICULOUS.
posted by trey at 9:44 AM on March 2, 2006


In my mind, that is officially not it. It isn't all fair game now. That this post has a stamp of disapproval means standard are offically regarded.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:31 AM CST on March 2


I agree now.
posted by dios at 9:45 AM on March 2, 2006


we're so afraid now!
posted by matteo at 9:56 AM on March 2, 2006


I'd like to see this reposted when there is a real source, though.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2006


we're so afraid now!

?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:02 AM on March 2, 2006


I'd like for there to be a real source, whether this is posted or not!
posted by scarabic at 10:19 AM on March 2, 2006


This post was deleted for the following reason: when you have a real source, please post about it.

What a blow for netroots activism!
posted by LarryC at 10:23 AM on March 2, 2006


How ironic that dios - so vocal in condemnation of my post, recently brought to Metafilter this gem :

"Counter-Hippie Tactics

BOMB: Placement of a large explosive devise underneath the sound stage just prior to a hippie concert or festival should kill off enough longhairs to bring absolute contentment in life. Include nails and metal shreds for the added delight of flayed hippie skins.
DEFCON 1 "


[ I just couldn't resist that dig ]


MEANWHILE....... haven't ventured onto metatalk in a long time, and I find this brouhaha kind of funny now that I'm in the business of occasionally deleting posts myself.

Maybe my post should have been deleted - I posted it in a state of patriotic exultation, and maybe I was rash.

Well, that's good for metafilter : it likely serves Matt's purposes to occasionally have posts to delete. That makes a public point about standards.


I can't get too caught up in the minutia : was it good ? Bad ? Worth deleting ? Not ? - Whatever. If I were in Matt's shoes - what I would have done ? Who knows. I might have deleted a post like mine. I'm pretty sure, however, that I would also have deleted dios post linking to a "satirical" site advocating terrorist bombings against unsuspecting crowds.

But, at this point I just can't get worked up about this. This is Matt's site: He built it, he maintains it, it's his livelihood.

And, I'll say this : in general, I consider Metafilter one of the best general highbrow reads on the net.

So, y'all can move along now. Shoo!
posted by troutfishing at 12:00 PM on March 2, 2006


troutfishing, I think your time at Kos is causing you to lose any grip on reality or sense of proportion. That you could take a site, which was so clearly farce, and act as if it were a serious call to arms to commit terrorism shows you have lost it. You focus on the one thing there that would have semblance to real events. I notice you didn't cite their suggestion to place explosives in the rectal cavity of a dog since Hippies like dogs. Or what about the soap-on-a-rope one? Why didn't you cite that one? Maybe because the other suggestions are indication of what a joke the whole thing is. Only a dullard would think it was in any way serious. It was a joke. Whether it was funny is a different question. I've stated my view of your post; others agreed. If you want to turn this a complaint about my post, go ahead and have at it. I know my opinion doesn't mean anything to you, but your attempt to defend your post by pointing to mine is lame, and your attempt to cast my post as advocating terrorism is an embarrassment to your intellect, in my opinion.
posted by dios at 12:34 PM on March 2, 2006


Some of those who weren't suffering from incredibly overblown outrage over dios' hippie post actually liked it. And it was, all else aside, unquestionably an actual website with an actual permanent residence.

[ it wasn't really a very good dig ]
posted by cortex at 12:36 PM on March 2, 2006


"Whack-a-hippie" was stupid and offensive and old, heavy on the stupid. Most commenters agreed.

Some may think folks didn't like it because it was posted by dios, but I tend to think it wasn't deleted because it was posted by dios. The delete finger is much lighter on the "diverse" posters here, perhaps rightfully so.

I have no problem with the impeachment post deletion, but saying it wasn't a permanent link is wrong. "There's not even a link yet" is a quote from the Kos diarist, not troutfishing.

posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:55 PM on March 2, 2006


That you could take a site, which was so clearly farce, and act as if it were a serious call to arms to commit terrorism

I want to state for the record that if any of you guys ever posts a link about murdering fascistic Texan two-bit lawyers, I'll be vocally against that, too.
posted by matteo at 12:58 PM on March 2, 2006


amberglow, I too am curious why you found dios' assertion uncool.
posted by Aknaton at 12:58 PM on March 2, 2006


(even if I like the hippies much more -- their Latin is also better )
posted by matteo at 12:58 PM on March 2, 2006


For someone who repeatedly states he's a lawyer and repeatedly insults others, where is the evidence behind dios' assumption? what's it based on? why make it in the first place? he ran out of other insults? wtf?

even in this very meTa thread, he has to insult and deride based on presumed behavior at another site? Excuse my french, but that's just fucked, and he's messed up. It's in no way appropriate--at all. It is not cool at all, and if matt didn't let him get away with everything, including continual personal insults, he'd be gone already. We have quite a wingnut affirmative action thing going on here for dios.
posted by amberglow at 1:41 PM on March 2, 2006


That's nonsense. If there's no substantive link (and it doesn't matter whether the Mefi poster or the Kos poster, or both, are acknowledging it) it shouldn't be an FPP on MetaFilter. Just because it's dios stating such a fact does not invalidate the fact. And he didn't accuse troutfishing of self-linking - to assert that he did requires a blatant misreading of his words.

Man, dios gets on my nerves a lot of the time too, but some of you are downright pathological about him.
posted by soyjoy at 2:02 PM on March 2, 2006


Dios insulted no one. Bad post, now it's gone. Everyone's happy (most anyway). Yay metafilter...
posted by justgary at 2:07 PM on March 2, 2006


It's not nonsense at all: It's not about dios stating something shouldn't be a FPP; it's what he then has to throw in, both in that thread and here--it's most certainly not nonsense, and if it were anyone else they'd be in trouble for it. It's also stalking-ish.

Should we all start using people's other posts on other sites as a valid attack in their mefi posts and on meta? really? you sure about that? is it really nonsense?
posted by amberglow at 2:08 PM on March 2, 2006


To be clear: "We have quite a wingnut affirmative action thing going on here for dios" is the nonsense. Any infraction of his you're citing, any way that he's stepped over the line, plenty of non-wingnut posters have also gotten away with, plenty of times. I think there's a bit of tunnel-vision at work here, amberglow.
posted by soyjoy at 2:14 PM on March 2, 2006


Thank you, soyjoy. You are a voice of reason in a tempest of zealotry. I mean come on, amberglow and troutfishing, aren't you being a little bit over-sensitive here?
posted by JeffK at 2:15 PM on March 2, 2006


He wasn't saying that troutfishing's postings on Kos were crap. He was saying the only thing that would have made the FPP crappier were if it was a self-link.

You're totally reading into this what you want to read into it and your shrill outrage isn't helping your case at all. Drop the persecution complex.
posted by trey at 2:17 PM on March 2, 2006


You shouldn't complain that someone uses personal insults and them call them a wingnut.
posted by Carbolic at 2:21 PM on March 2, 2006


You are stranded on a community web site that is inhabited by two groups of users. One group loves acerbic callouts, the other group links somethingawful. A user named dios appears and hands you two links, one of which you have to post. You are not allowed to read the URLs, but you are allowed one question. What do you ask him?
posted by soma lkzx at 2:23 PM on March 2, 2006


You shouldn't complain that someone uses personal insults and them call them a wingnut.

That's pretty much par for the course on metafilter.
posted by justgary at 2:26 PM on March 2, 2006


I posted it in a state of patriotic exultation

heh.
posted by scarabic at 2:45 PM on March 2, 2006


Yeah, amberglow, you're totally misreading this. All dios said was "the only way this could be worse would be if it was a self-link". Which is 100% true. You're completely flipping out about your own biased misunderstanding of what he wrote. Before you respond, re-read what dios wrote, and if you still think it's insulting, ask yourself why no one else is taking it that way and consider if maybe you're just misinterpreting it possibly because you seem to really hate dios a lot.
posted by jonson at 2:47 PM on March 2, 2006


the second time trout on dailykos was brought up--here in this very thread--i knew i wasn't misunderstanding anything at all.
posted by amberglow at 3:02 PM on March 2, 2006


I thought we were doing "If you don't like it, skip it." No? We changed the standard again? Shouldn't there be an executive memo or something?
posted by bardic at 3:07 PM on March 2, 2006


"troutfishing, I think your time at Kos is causing you to lose any grip on reality or sense of proportion. That you could take a site, which was so clearly farce, and act as if it were a serious call to arms to commit terrorism shows you have lost it."

dios, insults aside ( quite unprofessional in my opinion ) I challenge you to a simple dare :

If that post of yours is so innocuous, so clearly inoffensive for being parody, you shouldn't have qualms reposting your own parody of the first one.

It would be quite simple - just clone the site, and repost on blogspot. Change one variable though : in place of "hippy", you'll substitute "Catholics" or "Jews" or "Texans".

Oh - one more criteria : use your own name.

If the parody you linked to is so clearly and obviously inoffensive, well then - you'll have no problem with this whatsoever.

__________

As far as "proportion" goes, well...... if the the author of your "parody" lived in Germany he would very possibly be arrested and tried on hate speech charges.

Germans have lost all sense of "proportion" on what they choose to define as "hate speech". I think the reason is clear enough. They've seen where eliminationist rhetoric leads.
posted by troutfishing at 3:20 PM on March 2, 2006


Can we close this thread please? It's gone into ridiculous land.
posted by trey at 3:48 PM on March 2, 2006


quite unprofessional

Wait, wait, wait wait wait. We're professionals now?

Okay, beyond that, this is just stupid. I respect trout, he's put up some great, well informed posts, but this is nonsense. The post in question, which contained no solid link and only referred to a rumor has crap, and as crap, it was deleted. What does Dios have to do with any of this? He wasn't even the one who started this meta thread?

This thread should be closed.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:49 PM on March 2, 2006


has crap = was crap

And I don't know why I felt the need to up-speak in that last sentence.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:51 PM on March 2, 2006


elwoodwiles - well, dios didn't start the thread. Sure. But the thread title did indeed start with "I ... agree with dios"....

Now, that brought to mind - to my mind - dios' recent post ( *satirical* ) of link to a site advocating ( among other things ) blowing up unsuspecting crowds with home-made antipersonnel weapons. So I mentioned that post here.

Now, dios , in turn on this thread, accused me of losing my grip on reality. So I posed that challenge of mine. I rather doubt he'll take me up on it, and that would validate my point.

Meanwhile - upthread a bit - I shrugged and said already, in effect : ":OK, if I posted a bad link, fine. Matt Haughey deleted it, and it's his site. No problem. I'll post other link here, and most will be better received." I did say- also - that if I were in Matt's shoes I would have deleted the dios post and - indeed - maybe ( as site admin ) I would have deleted my own post as well.

In other words, I moved on.... but others on this thread seem to want to fight over something.
posted by troutfishing at 4:21 PM on March 2, 2006


If the parody you linked to is so clearly and obviously inoffensive, well then - you'll have no problem with this whatsoever.

Wait. So, you're implication is that if someone took a parody, and removed all the parodic (?!) elements from it, and it turned out not to be funny any more, that's an indictment of the parody?

Am I misunderstanding something here?
posted by cortex at 4:39 PM on March 2, 2006


Someone light the mattsignal; thread's getting useless in addition to just stupid.
posted by Firas at 4:49 PM on March 2, 2006


I have to agree with dios, here. I scan the headlines of both dailykos and littlegreenfootballs to keep tabs on what the extremists are thinking, and every time something catches my eye I go to look at the comments and the detachment from reality on both sides is breathtaking. LGF is like a ceaseless lynchmob screaming that all Muslims are animals and all dissenters are traitors. DK is a discussion circle of people so desperate for any ray of hope that they've gone delusional - as if wanting something badly enough will make it happen.

I've had the opportunity to chat on IRC with both ParisParamus and amberglow and I've seen lesser, borderline symptoms of this in both of them despite the fact that they are in every other respect extremely likeable. With Paris it's many little statements that add up together to paint a portrait of an unfounded ideology, whereas with amberglow there's one event that sticks out in my mind - an hour after John Kerry* had clearly lost the election amberglow was virtually chanting in #mefi that we could still win.

dios trolls, make no mistake, but when he isn't trolling he's right a surprising amount of the time precisely because he isn't completely gone over to LGF in exactly the same way so many left-wing people here aren't completely gone over to DK. Relativism in this vein does have to stop at some point because there is - even factoring in for my personal bias - staggeringly more intellectual dishonesty and acceptance of clearly manufactured 'truth' on the right than the left these days.

I'm no longer quite sure where I'm going with this other than to say that any links or information coming from either LGF or DK need to be heavily prescreened by those posting it for legitimacy and most importantly secondary sources. Newsfilter on Mefi is still one of the best sources on non-mainstream political insight out there, but the last thing it needs is to become even more hit-and-miss.

*As an aside, I met John Kerry a few weeks ago at the Old Salt Tavern in NH and he wished my wife a happy birthday. If only he had been half as personable ON camera as he was off it . . .
posted by Ryvar at 5:07 PM on March 2, 2006


cortex - I guess I have to be brutally simple :

"Wait. So, you're implication is that if someone took a parody, and removed all the parodic (?!) elements from it [ parodic element: vaguely defined group termed "hippies" should be destroyed in a bloody genocidal spasm, blown to bits with antipersonnel devices, etc. - my dare to dios was that he replace "hippy" with "catholics", "jews" or "texans" ], and it turned out not to be funny any more, that's an indictment of the parody?"

So - can you tell me why a parody concerning a proposed genocide of "hippies" is more funny than a proposed genocide of Jews, Catholics, Texans.....

I'm waiting with baited breath.

For that matter - can you tell me why I should find the proposed genocidal elimination of any defined societal group funny ?

Let's start with cripples in wheelchairs.

You first. Remember - "it's parody !"

______

Firas - Do you have any words to clothe that sentiment in ?
posted by troutfishing at 5:12 PM on March 2, 2006


I'm waiting with baited breath.

Do you use nightcrawlers, or pieces of squid?
posted by Gator at 5:15 PM on March 2, 2006


Because "hippies" is such an ill-defined, goofishly maligned, and wildly inoffensive collective? Because the very notion of brutal, obsessive extermination, juxtaposed against "hippies", is absurdist and hence (to some folks, at least) humorous?

That's my point. It's funny, in it's own over-the-top satirical way, because it's a shade off of cripples, or jews, or niggers. If there'd been a recent history of violent, systematic persecution of hippies, well, it'd be a lot darker and murkier of a situation.

And of course it's a grey zone, because some folks won't find it funny. Show me a parody worth its salt (and I readily acknowledge there is finer stuff out there than this) that isn't going to get anybody's panties in a bunch, and I'll be surprised.
posted by cortex at 5:22 PM on March 2, 2006


Gator : squid is better, for being very chewy. In practice that means if the squid chunks get stuck in your teeth they can be succesfully plucked out whereas the nightcrawler ends break off when you try to pull them out.

______


Ryvar - Who are these "extremists" you refer to, and what is it that makes their points of view extreme ?

People have political positions - of course.

But, the political positions which serve as the underpinning of American constitutional government were - in the not very distant past - considered "extreme".

For that matter, legal prohibitions against human slavery or the position that women should be able to vote were - in the not so dim or distant past - considered "extremist" as well.

Terms such as "extremist" are holllow - they tend to mean "divergence from the mainstream" but have become freighted with value judgements.
posted by troutfishing at 5:23 PM on March 2, 2006


cortex - Are your panties in a bunch ? You're paying close attention to this thread.
posted by troutfishing at 5:25 PM on March 2, 2006


Trout if you can't see that most of the commenters on LGF and DK have a serious disconnect from reality in terms of both what they think should happen and more importantly what they think will happen, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Time and again I've seen promises from both sites that X will happen (usually regarding Palestinian implosion on LGF, and Bush administration implosion on DK) thus giving their side final material vindication of their beliefs, and then watched X just utterly fail to manifest itself.

To me, that's extremism.
posted by Ryvar at 5:30 PM on March 2, 2006


troutfishing: I have mostly gotten past net-based panty-bunching. I'm feeling argumentative, though, and you seem like a pretty smart person, so it seems worth arguing the point with you.

Would you prefer that I wrote you off as an idiot and paid only lax, superficial attention to the threads I participate in?
posted by cortex at 5:33 PM on March 2, 2006


With all due respect, I've always found that the first sign of extremism is the inability to laugh at oneself.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:35 PM on March 2, 2006


cortext - well, fair enough. I understand crankiness ( where I was at tonight ).

In my experience, such disagreements usually come down to perspective. I don't know where you're coming from ( and, people are hugely complex ) but here's one data point on my perspective :

Becoming Evil

_

[ http://www.whitworth.edu/News/2001_2002/Spring/BecomingEvilByWaller.htm ]

I've done a number of posts on Mefi related to this territory, and my sense now is that I see major danger signs.

For example, I did a post on Metafilter - almost 2 years ago now - on which a majority seemed unconcerned about a call, by a Mass. radio show host, for a genocide against American muslims.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm against genocide and also speach that makes genocide more likely.

________

" It's Raining Florence Henderson " - you don't like my squid comment [ my reply to gator ] , above ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:04 PM on March 2, 2006


Oops - "cortex", that is. Although I like "cortext" quite a bit.
posted by troutfishing at 8:05 PM on March 2, 2006


is troutfishing an Alex Reynolds sock puppet?
posted by shmegegge at 8:12 PM on March 2, 2006


shmegegge - are you a giant anteater in need of more roaming space ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:30 PM on March 2, 2006


No.
posted by Ryvar at 8:30 PM on March 2, 2006


It's funny, in it's own over-the-top satirical way, because it's a shade off of cripples, or jews, or niggers. If there'd been a recent history of violent, systematic persecution of hippies, well, it'd be a lot darker and murkier of a situation.

Recent violence against a group is not a prerequisite for jokes against that group to be offensive. In your own little trifecta, "cripples" haven't really been violently persecuted, but that doesn't make discrimination against the handicapped any less real. And the "stupid" post I linked to above (which was deleted) wasn't violent.; it was merely stereotypical, which was enough for Matt or Jessamyn to dub it too lame for MeFi. (Besides, I don't really accept the idea that violence against "longhairs" is/was not real in some communities, especially in the 1960s and 70s.)

Also, as you alluded to, the target of ridicule is so poorly defined that the "parody" doesn't have any real heft as satire. This picture —in which nomisxid, onegreeneye, and others seemed to delight— is much more of a fat joke than a hippie joke. MetaFilter is better than that, and to see dios whining about "standards" after encouraging such behavior here is rather pathetic. This hypocrisy is what I found most distasteful about "Suppressing Hippiedom Worldwide".

(The FPP was pretty clearly posted out of anger: at 3:37 EST dios indigantly posted in the troop poll thread "I think you got your small-minded jackass cliches a little mixed there." in response to a joke TeamBilly made about ribbon magnets. So at 3:46, dios makes his FPP stating hippies are good for [p]arking your car on, no doubt pulled from his bookmarks of sundry masturbatory material, and returns to the troop thread at 3:54 to announce he "intended to do nothing more than to point out the use of the small-minded cliches people use to demonize The Other.")

Posting a FPP out of spite for something that happened in another thread is never a good idea. Accusing others of lacking a sense of humor when it was precisely an inability to take a joke that caused the spite in the first place....well, that just dios.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:55 PM on March 2, 2006 [1 favorite]


Hyperbole, trolling, and small-minded hate-mongering is what they write. Satire, parody, and critique is what we write. For all values of "they" and "we."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:02 PM on March 2, 2006


Oh yes, of course. I'm not saying the hippies thread should be deleted —I'm not so much into the deletion thing— just that it should be deleted.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:09 PM on March 2, 2006


Wanna circle that one around for me again?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:12 PM on March 2, 2006


troutfishing, funny you should ask...

seriously, though. while I get that you're saying my claim is random, it's not as random when you consider that your behavior in this thread exhibits the following traits which Alex_Reynolds was notorious for:

1. constantly getting the last word.
2. persecution complex
3. relentlessly going after dios over every minor thing to the point of insisting on a malicious interpretation of his words that no one else finds even remotely reasonable.
4. slippery slope fallacies
5. forcing drama.

I mean, I'm not trying to insult you or anything, so much as I'm trying to point out that you may want to take a breather and seriously consider letting this one go.
posted by shmegegge at 10:24 PM on March 2, 2006


The lack of perspective on this site is astounding.
posted by Falconetti at 10:46 PM on March 2, 2006


Now that I think of it, the "anti-dentite" episode of Seinfield was the equivalent of 10,000 Holocausts.
posted by Falconetti at 10:47 PM on March 2, 2006


troutfishing, actually I was just picking up on your 'I've moved on but others seem to want to fight over something' cue, but I can understand that jittery paranoia doesn't lend itself to giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
posted by Firas at 12:35 PM on March 3, 2006


yawn..... I think I'll go off to look at websites on giant anteaters.
posted by troutfishing at 1:52 PM on March 3, 2006


it's always convincing when you specifically say that you don't care enough to reply.
posted by shmegegge at 2:50 PM on March 3, 2006


shmegegge - I tend to respond to point that are responsible. ( in all senses of the word ).

If you atttached examples - quotes from what I've written - to your allegations you'd be more credible.
posted by troutfishing at 7:54 PM on March 4, 2006


shit. I gave you some advice. clearly it offended. for that I'm sorry. I have no intention of going back through your posts, especially since it's been days since anyone's cared or participated in this thread. I was trying to make a point for what I thought was your benefit, but which could clearly be taken as an insult. my bad. if you can't see what I'm talking about, then fuck it. it's not important.
posted by shmegegge at 11:10 PM on March 4, 2006


shmegegge - I wasn't asking you to dig through thousands of my comments and posts. Let me be painfully concrete:

In terms of your 5 point critique above, leaving out #1 ( well, so far I've got the last word ! ) what specific quotes - directly from things I've written on this thread - are your referring to ?

My main point here was on the language of demonization, and eliminationist rhetoric, in public discourse. David Neiwert, who writes Orcinus, has written several books on Neo-Nazi and white supremacist movements and also writes often on his blog about eliminationist rhetoric.

Eliminationist rhetoric quite often gets packaged as humor, satire, and parody. However, such rhetoric has in recent US history seems to have fed or incited - in groups native to the US such as the violent wing of the anti-abortion movement, Christian nationalism, and white supremacy and Neo-Nazi groups - terrorist acts of violence even on a large scale ( the Oklahoma City bombing. )

I would suggest - if you're interested - one book over all others : Becoming Evil: In this groundbreaking academic work featuring - among other things - excruciating interviews with the victims and perpetrators of mass political violence from genocides and mass killings from Rwanda, Yugoslavia, El Salvador, Cambodia, and elsewhere James Waller cites societal socialization - towards attitudes condoning and accepting violence against targeted societal groups - as one significant factor leading up to outbreaks of mass killing.

If you don't think there has been an increase, in recent years, in eliminationist rhetoric in American public discourse I'd be happy to supply you with examples - although it's difficult to make a rigorous quantitative analysis of that case, for somehwhat obvious reasons.
posted by troutfishing at 9:19 AM on March 5, 2006


It would be quite simple - just clone the site, and repost on blogspot. Change one variable though : in place of "hippy", you'll substitute "Catholics" or "Jews" or "Texans". this is an example of #3.
everything you've said about the book becoming evil and eliminationist rhetoric is #4. It's a parody. If you think it ACTUALLY advocates the elimination of hippies, it's because you're trying to find something wrong with dios to gripe about. Especially if you think the parodic nature of the site is a clever ruse to disguise real hippy eliminationist rhetoric. It's an absurd idea and the only reason you don't think so, too, is because you're upset at dios. sure, he was being a dick, but it's time to let it go.
In other words, I moved on.... but others on this thread seem to want to fight over something. #2.
cortex - Are your panties in a bunch ? You're paying close attention to this thread. #5.

but again, my point wasn't to say that you're REALLY A_R's sock puppet or anything, so much as to just say that any behavior that begins to resemble rothko's should be considered a warning flag that it's time to walk away. I'm not making value judgements against you, I was just blown away that you were taking this as far as you had.

But it's over now. I have no intention of dragging this out any further. If I've offended you I'm legitimately sorry for that.
posted by shmegegge at 9:34 AM on March 5, 2006


Well, no, you haven't offended me. Also, I have no idea who you are, and I have way too many battles available to seek out new fights.

Besides, I was really happy to discover "House of Cosbys", but anyway......
posted by troutfishing at 9:50 PM on March 6, 2006


shmegegge, you did not receive formal authorization to cite tf's unfounded allegations of panty-bunching; please remit the licensing fee plus a 15% penalty forthwith, or you'll be hearing from my lawyers.
posted by cortex at 7:48 AM on March 7, 2006


So no one is gonna challenge my assertion that dios hates hippies because the troops don't support the war?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:56 AM on March 7, 2006


the licensing fees and penalty are in the mail.
posted by shmegegge at 9:25 AM on March 7, 2006


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