I think it may be time to ban Leyna Howe.

November 20, 2006 8:52 AM

I think it may be time to ban Leyna Howe. She's posted nothing but pseudo "questions" and mostly irrelevant comments about how to convince older men to not have kids (most of her comments and posts have been deleted already). I'm sympathetic to pet causes, but she's not engaging with the community in any way other than to "get the word out."
posted by occhiblu to Etiquette/Policy at 8:52 AM (45 comments total)

(If she can be corrected without banning, that's fine too. But I think a bunch of us have tried in her various threads, and she's still posting the same kind of not-within-guidelines stuff.)
posted by occhiblu at 9:01 AM on November 20, 2006

If you squint a bit, and depending on your accent, her username is almost like one of those great punning drag names, like Tanya Hide, Paige Turner, Gale Force, Annette Curtain, Ida Slapter &c.

Er, anyway, she does seem a bit one track minded - maybe an email from an admin would be a better first step than outright banning?
posted by jack_mo at 9:07 AM on November 20, 2006

I don't agree..
So.. if someone has a strong opinion on a topic, and every time someone posts a related question or fpp that opinion is expressed, that person should be banned?

Granted that she generated one askme that was deleted 'cuz it didn't fit the guidelines, lots of folks have made that mistake...

I went back and read the posts you linked to. Yep, she has an opinion on this, and it is consistent across the various posts. Her posts are appropriate to the topic. I say let her stay... If we banned folks for consistently expressing the same opinion, half of us would be out $5 and looking for someplace else to post!
posted by HuronBob at 9:13 AM on November 20, 2006

look, she seems nice enough, it's not that she's advocating genocide or something. I usually agree with occhiblu about stuff, this time not so much
posted by matteo at 9:13 AM on November 20, 2006

now...having just seen her recent askme...I have to amend my opinion on this a bit..

(which I didn't see linked in this post).. It would be a good idea for her to gain a better understanding about askme posts. It's one thing to express a consistent opinion in other folks related posts/questions, but to continue to post this sort of soapbox stuff as a question isn't appropriate..
posted by HuronBob at 9:19 AM on November 20, 2006

Crap, man. If we banned every one-note poster, the joint would be pretty empty.
posted by boo_radley at 9:19 AM on November 20, 2006

I should perhaps have kept it here... anyway, it's not an answerable question. She is, in fact, begging the question and, as such, it's not really a question. Phrasing your beliefes as questions doesn't make it suitable material for AskMe.

e.g:

"What would be the best way to prove that Jews do in fact control global banking?"

"Can anyone point me to documented cases of Catholics eating babies at their secret black masses?"

"Does the DOT compile statistics on exactly how bad women drivers are?"

This is actually kind of fun.
posted by GuyZero at 9:19 AM on November 20, 2006

This sort of one-note non-contribution cheeses me off. It's tricky administrative ground, but banning her with a simple request to actually contribute something next time wouldn't upset me much.

But then, I don't like Bevets either, or folks who pay $5 for a commercial ad on Projects. I'm duddyish in that respect.
posted by cortex at 9:26 AM on November 20, 2006

What a one trick pony, and today's question is just nuts. I am not a big fan of bannination though. I am sure she will be getting a note from Matt over this. Hopefully, that is enough.
posted by caddis at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2006

Sorry, as I noted: Most of her AskMe posts have been deleted, which makes them hard to track down and link to. She's posted several non-questions about how to "get the word out" that men shouldn't be having kids after a certain age, all of which have been deleted.

What I can find:

Cynthia Daniels discusses the book she wrote, Exposing Men: The Science and Politics of Male Reproduction on Living On Earth, NPR Have you heard of this important book, what do you think of the interview? http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=06-P13-00041&segmentID=2

And then the current one: What can counteract the fact that Pfizer, Viacom and CBS spin the news, and buy off researchers and tell men what they want to hear and hide the facts?

Her first AskMe was literally asking how to increase awareness of diseases caused by late-age fathers. I feel like there was at least one more, because I remember looking them up the last time she posted an AskMe that seemed ax-grinding.

I have no problems with her comments. But every single one of her AskMes has been about the same topic, and every single one (with the exception of the current one, so far) has been deleted.
posted by occhiblu at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2006

If only her pet cause was the Iraq War.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:31 AM on November 20, 2006

Also like Bevets, leyna gets around.
posted by cortex at 9:33 AM on November 20, 2006

bevets has been gone for six months or so, and isn't coming back.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2006

Odd, prior to deleting the post the moderators decided to edit out some of the snark. Were they contemplating leaving that question stay?
posted by caddis at 9:42 AM on November 20, 2006

This person seems really annoying and can hardly be said to be contributing. But I secretly wish there was a night of the long knives here anyway.
posted by Falconetti at 9:44 AM on November 20, 2006

1, 2, 3 strikes. I'll write her a note.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:45 AM on November 20, 2006

bevets has been gone for six months or so, and isn't coming back.

What the fuck are you talking about?
posted by interrobang at 9:45 AM on November 20, 2006

Odd, prior to deleting the post the moderators decided to edit out some of the snark. Were they contemplating leaving that question stay?

No I wasn't thinking of keeping the post around, I delete non-answer noise even in deleted threads. I saw some awful off-topic stuff attacking her before I hit the delete button on the post. Guyzero, you should know better.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:47 AM on November 20, 2006

Weird, I could have sworn I banned him last spring.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:49 AM on November 20, 2006

Perhaps you only dreamed you banned him.
posted by not that girl at 9:53 AM on November 20, 2006

Maybe you should keep a list.
posted by yhbc at 9:54 AM on November 20, 2006

*hangs head in shame

OK, well if snark is not acceptable in soon to be deleted AskMe posts, you should probably delete my comment as well. Sorry.
posted by caddis at 9:54 AM on November 20, 2006

quonsar
quonsar
quonsar
bevets
posted by yhbc at 9:55 AM on November 20, 2006 [1 favorite]

Weird, I could have sworn I banned him last spring.

He has the power of God to fight against the forces of the ban hammer.
posted by caddis at 9:56 AM on November 20, 2006

Guyzero, you should know better.

I should, mea culpa. When someone is so obviously wrong, there's nothing to be gained in calling them names.
posted by GuyZero at 10:01 AM on November 20, 2006

Weird, I could have sworn I banned him last spring.

Well that explains this, then.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:02 AM on November 20, 2006

Hrm, why exactly did she mark "In the words of Strong Bad - DELETED!!" as best answer?

The internets, they boggle the minds.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:08 AM on November 20, 2006

If a strong point of view strongly expressed ever becomes anathema here, Mathowie might as well make the text the same color as the background, for all the interest the site will then command.

My father was 49 at my birth and I was born with cerebral and central nervous system problems. I urge men to father before 40 and freeze semen at a younger age. The disaster of genetic mutations in children of older fathers is permanent and causes great agony. There seems to be a stronger effect, at an earlier advanced paternal age, on daughters. Increased rates of breast cancer, premenopausal, has been found in daughters of older fathers. Also many other problems have been associated with mutations in sperm of olders fathers. Epidemiologist know of this research.
posted by leyna howe at 10:43 AM PST on October 19
[+]
[!]

Leyna is pretty clear here about her agenda, and given her personal experience and her beliefs, even her tone is fairly reasonable, in my opinion. I also think she is advocating a point of view which is very unpopular and is not getting the level of attention it should have. Just this year, my mate's nephew developed a severe auto-immune disorder in his mid-thirties which required essentially instantaneous emergency treatment to stave off kidney failure, and his sperm count is now zero, probably permanently.

So much for those dreams.
posted by jamjam at 10:10 AM on November 20, 2006

I also think she is advocating a point of view which is very unpopular and is not getting the level of attention it should have.

In which case, I think it would be great for her to put together an FPP and have a discussion there; I agree it's a really interesting topic. But AskMe is not the place for her questions and discussions, and she hadn't seemed to be getting that.
posted by occhiblu at 10:20 AM on November 20, 2006

I also think she is advocating a point of view which is very unpopular and is not getting the level of attention it should have.

The problem is not with the attentition it's with the first thing you mention: AskMe is not for advocating your point of view. It's point is to help people solve problems. Claiming that your problem is that no one agrees with your point of view is disingenuous.

I actually agree that people in general, both men and women, should not delay having children until late in life, for a variety of reasons. I have no problem with her underlying belief. Again, AskMe just isn't the place.
posted by GuyZero at 10:27 AM on November 20, 2006

jamjam, her questions were crap. Poorly formatted without a problem explained or one that could be solved. Two were thinly veiled rants, one was chatfilter.

It's not about expressing a viewpoint or having one that people disagree with, she's not following the basic rules of the community in regards to asking questions. Your protest makes no sense to me.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:29 AM on November 20, 2006

It's kind of obvious that she's got some kind of affective disorder, too-- autism comes to mind. So don't be too hard on her. Though I do think she should probably be banned.
posted by empath at 10:32 AM on November 20, 2006

AskMe is not the place for her questions and discussions, and she hadn't seemed to be getting that.

I think this is the main point. We've had some issues like this before where people with one pet issue then ask a bunch of similar questions about it [how do I best advocate for X? what is the best way to promote X? is my idea promoting X a good one? can you look at my website about X and tell me if there is anything I'm missing?] and they're all variants on a theme where the problem to be solved is along the lines of "I'm unhappy about X and have become a fairly single-topic person about it and MetaFilter is one of the places I vent my unhappiness."

We've seen it before with people who were having a hard time publicizing their website/book, and people who were unhappy with the custody decision in their divorce. It's not that there's any problem with asking questions on similar topics, or a question and a follow-up question later, or questions on difficult emotional topics, it's that these posters tend not to engage with the community except in a soapbox fashion. MetaFilter really isn't a good soapbox, and posts that sound soapbox-y go poorly here. If you're asking a question that you already know the answer to, or you're not really able to accept varying points of view about, it won't go well on AskMe.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:32 AM on November 20, 2006

Leyna is pretty clear here about her agenda, and given her personal experience and her beliefs, even her tone is fairly reasonable, in my opinion.

I also think she is advocating a point of view which is very unpopular and is not getting the level of attention it should have.

Just this year, my mate's nephew developed a severe auto-immune disorder in his mid-thirties which required essentially instantaneous emergency treatment to stave off kidney failure, and his sperm count is now zero, probably permanently.

That's nothing: I knew this guy who ate a WHOLE TURKEY one time.

When I read her kind of stuff, I see ranting. I see anecdote, at best. I don't see reasoned debate. I don't see citations. I see something that, with rephrasing, could just as easily be ZOMG KIDNEY THEEVES IN UR BATHTUBZ STEALING UR ORGANZ *tinfoil*.

I don't respond well to that kind of screed, and I see no real reason why mathowie should provide the tinfoil brigade with yet another platform for their ravings.

I've made this point before, and I'll make it again here: the plural of anecdote is not data. Backing an argument up with actual, empirical data will usually, but not always, get you further than frothing at the mouth and yelling at people about how misinformed they are.

As a sterling example, she writes:

Also many other problems have been associated with mutations in sperm of olders fathers. Epidemiologist know of this research.

I would find the entire passage more convincing if, say, it read something like:

Also (link to PubMed citations, Medline, scholar.google, etc.) many other problems (end cite) have been associated with (cite: wikipedia entry on mutations after 40, etcetera) mutations in sperm of olders fathers (end cite). (cite: pubmed, etcetera) Epidimiologist know of this research (end cite).

If you want to be taken seriously, write seriously.
posted by scrump at 10:38 AM on November 20, 2006

scrump: surely you mean "IM IN UR VAS DEFERENCE, MUTATIN UR SPERMS". *ahem*
Sincere person with a flawed understanding of how mefi works. I'm sure Matt will email her and things will work out ok, and the resulting FPP (in the blue!) will be good.
posted by boo_radley at 11:44 AM on November 20, 2006 [1 favorite]

Given her health problems and emotional distress I would rather see her get a warning than a ban, and it sounds like that is just what is going to happen.

Now people who only post about politics, they should be banned.
posted by LarryC at 11:54 AM on November 20, 2006

My protest is against silencing her altogether, Mathowie; the one question I can see is terrible, right enough, and I doubt I'd disagree with any of the deletions, nor do I believe you or Jessamyn should be too concerned about my opinions, anyway.

I do think leyna howe means well, and that there is something to be said in her favor, and in favor of her views. It fell to me to give it a try, I thought.

My hope is you and Jessamyn will exert your justly famed domesticating powers, and that yet another wild but rather interesting creature roaming the internet can be gathered to the fold.
posted by jamjam at 2:43 PM on November 20, 2006

My hope is you and Jessamyn will exert your justly famed domesticating powers, and that yet another wild but rather interesting creature roaming the internet can be gathered to the fold.

I suspect the regular denizens of #mefi would be unhappy to have her ranting at them all day and night.
posted by shmegegge at 10:25 PM on November 20, 2006

Goody Proctor is a Witch!
posted by oxford blue at 9:59 PM on November 21, 2006

But then, I don't like Bevets either, or folks who pay $5 for a commercial ad on Projects. I'm duddyish in that respect.

does metafilter define your life? i think you take it a little toos eriously
posted by petsounds at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2006

does metafilter define your life? i think you take it a little toos eriously

Having well-considered opinions is "taking things too seriously"? As dismissive snark goes, that's pretty weak stuff. Please, elaborate.

I've been here a while; I like it here; I pay attention. The community aspect of mefi is a genuine feature for me. I have respect for the site, it's members, and the years of history behind the place.
posted by cortex at 2:10 PM on November 22, 2006

I'm sorry- its just that being bored at work I've been clicking through the metatalk posts and noticed that cortex shares his opinion and judgement on evvvvverything and whether it conforms to his standards so i thought id return the favor
posted by petsounds at 2:33 PM on November 22, 2006

Well, you've got a lot more threads to voice petty, passive-aggressive complaints at me in, then. Hop to it.
posted by cortex at 2:34 PM on November 22, 2006

YOU MESS WITH CORTEX I'LL MAKE YOU MY BITCH, BOY!
posted by Jimbob at 2:38 PM on November 22, 2006

posted by petsounds I'm sorry- its just that being bored at work I've been clicking through the metatalk posts

Does MetaFilter define your life? I think you take it a little too seriously.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:40 PM on November 22, 2006