Hillary Post Whacked June 19, 2007 5:02 PM   Subscribe

This deletion doesn't make sense.
posted by kirkaracha to Etiquette/Policy at 5:02 PM (73 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

The stated reason is, "this is not at all right for here," but it's an update to this post. Why was this one deleted when the first one wasn't? The content of both posts seems fine to me.

The deleted post is pretty incoherent but we've had less coherent ones, and using this URL would've been better than just linking to the home page, but those issues could be fixed and neither is the stated reason the post was deleted.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:02 PM on June 19, 2007


I support doing whatever needs to be done to keep Metafilter from turning into an election minutia blog.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 5:06 PM on June 19, 2007 [6 favorites]


The deletion reason for an incoherent post is often somewhat throwaway. The post linked to the main Hillary Clinton website and an old MeFi post and a page blasting a Celine Dion song and encouraging people to donate?

At some point we, everyone really, have to make a choice whether the next year of MetaFilter is going to be "teeny updatefilter on [insert US presidential candidate of choice here]" and for posts like this that really didn't make sense in the first place, I think it's okay to say no.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:13 PM on June 19, 2007


I can't speak for jessamyn, but here's how I see that post:

First of all, the difference between your link and the one in the post is that I clicked on yours because I assumed there was content at the end of it. In the post, when I hovered over a link to hillaryclinton.com, I just moved on to the next link, assuming this was one of those posters who thinks every proper noun should link somewhere. Then the next link is to a previous Metafilter post that has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. The last link lags Firefox for 10 seconds while the Quicktime plug-in loads an embedded mp3 file before blaring music at me and asking for a donation.

If I had a delete button on my screen, I'd break my mouse trying to get to it fast enough.
posted by Partial Law at 5:14 PM on June 19, 2007


BALETED!
posted by klangklangston at 5:24 PM on June 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


This deletion doesn't make sense.

If you'll notice, the first five comments (and me, on first read) didn't think the post made sense.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:28 PM on June 19, 2007


I knew what it was about only because I saw it on metachat earlier today.
posted by puke & cry at 5:29 PM on June 19, 2007


Don't stop believin'.
posted by Dave Faris at 5:32 PM on June 19, 2007


I dunno -- I think with some cleaning up and filling out this could have been a really nice post Not saying jess should be the one to have to do it; I know the mods have cleaned up posts before but this one required some pretty heavy-duty housekeeping. On the other hand, I honestly don't know if posters have ever been given the opportunity to clean up their own posts.

I didn't really consider it minutiae; I mean, don't we have conversations on politics and pop culture here all the time? This is a clear and obvious merging of the two -- if it were just the song, I'd be leery, but there's a real conversation to be had about that video. Either way, I'm glad for this MeTa post -- "just not right for here" wasn't really enough of an explanation for me.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:33 PM on June 19, 2007


Wow...I guess I pretty much can speak for jessamyn. Um...candy for everybody!
posted by Partial Law at 5:34 PM on June 19, 2007


Man, I know we've had election-filter pretty damned badly in the past, but the primaries don't start for seven fucking months. The main election isn't for nearly seventeen months, which is, what, like the entirety of the Paleolithic in internet time?

Can't we just cool it for the time being? I'm looking as forward as anyone to Jan 20, '09, but there's a hell of a lot of important stuff between now and then.

Stop posting prematurely like it's prom night.
posted by Ufez Jones at 5:34 PM on June 19, 2007


Sorry:

"...really nice post. Not saying..."
posted by hifiparasol at 5:34 PM on June 19, 2007


I think with some cleaning up and filling out this could have been a really nice post

The OP can do that 24 hours from now or anyone else can take a shot at it. We don't edit posts except in extreme circumstances and a badly thrown together post isn't such a circumstance.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:35 PM on June 19, 2007


We don't edit posts except in extreme circumstances

Thanks -- I really didn't know. Fair enough.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:39 PM on June 19, 2007


Now think about it; that does not make sense!
posted by brownpau at 5:48 PM on June 19, 2007


I think with some cleaning up and filling out this could have been a really nice...

Hey! I've said that about some girls I knew in high school!
posted by The Deej at 5:51 PM on June 19, 2007 [3 favorites]


usually cleaning up a post is something along the lines of "my typo actually totally fucks up the meaning of my post" or "i messed up the html tag for this link" or the OP puts a comment early in the thread saying "oh damn, I meant that last word to link [here]" in there and then says "admins, please hope me!" It has never been "oh this post has a bunch of sub par links and bad wording so I had better find better links for them and rewrite the post."
posted by shmegegge at 6:03 PM on June 19, 2007


If you'll notice, the first five comments (and me, on first read) didn't think the post made sense.

Sure. Then the reason the post was deleted should have said that, instead of saying it wasn't appropriate.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:34 PM on June 19, 2007


Hey... let's just remember the good times.
posted by miss lynnster at 6:38 PM on June 19, 2007


The deletion makes perfect sense, the reason for deletion may not. But, since you're a big user, certainly you can look at the post and see that it makes sense to delete it since the post is a mess. Not everything, not even everything you disagree with, has to become a MetaTalk post.
posted by OmieWise at 6:42 PM on June 19, 2007


It is here - given the opportunity and wherewithal - with the greatest ponce and certainty, but with all humility and deep honor a mere mortal such as myself, given to speak, would say the following single word to you all this fine, splendid evening.

That hallowed word, being forthright and righteously wrought and the finest forge known from now until all futurity - that faithful, fail-safe word known to every man, mother and child in the land since the dawn of history itself, carved in every lintel and stone, uttered under every breath.

That word which I would utter before you now, is "weeaboo".

But it is not my place to say that word.

I was never here. This never happened.
posted by loquacious at 6:53 PM on June 19, 2007


"Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this post? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this post! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that MetaTalk thread deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must delete! The defense rests.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:59 PM on June 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


The only people who see deletion reasons are MeTa addicts anyways.
posted by smackfu at 7:13 PM on June 19, 2007


Is it just me, or do people freak out about Jessamyn's deletions WAY more than Cortex's or Matt's?

If Cortex had made this deletion, he would have had a snarkier deletion reason, and someone probably would have posted a Go Cortex! positive callout here.

What's the deal with the constant second-guessing? Let the moderators do their jobs.
posted by serazin at 7:22 PM on June 19, 2007 [2 favorites]


Maybe people are still resentful over being shushed by librarians in their youth?
posted by smackfu at 7:41 PM on June 19, 2007


SILENCE!

Did I hear somebody say weeaboo?
posted by kosem at 7:48 PM on June 19, 2007


The only people who see deletion reasons are MeTa addicts anyways.

::Smacks forearm. Looks for promising grey vein. Ties off.::
posted by kosem at 7:50 PM on June 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is it just me, or do people freak out

No, I 've noticed that too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:59 PM on June 19, 2007


do people freak out about Jessamyn's deletions WAY more than Cortex's or Matt's?

I thought so, but then I figured it was just a misplaced persecution complex.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:02 PM on June 19, 2007


do people freak out about Jessamyn's deletions WAY more than Cortex's or Matt's?

Yes, but from my sense of things, the vast majority of complaints about jessamyn's deletions come from AskMe, where it seems that she does the lion's share of moderation.

And we all know how much the greenies love to whine about deletions, and how [far too] often disgruntled greenies "take it to MeTa." So, by virtue of the uptightness of AskMe, a lot of silly griperation is aimed at jessamyn.

I do not, in other words, smell misogyny. At least not as a primary motivator. If that was the suggestion. Also, indignant AskMefites, please continue to make angry MeTa posts. They are hilarious.
posted by kosem at 8:14 PM on June 19, 2007


I've noticed, too, and the Occam's Razor in me says - she's a she, dude.
posted by tristeza at 8:15 PM on June 19, 2007


Hee, greenies.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:44 PM on June 19, 2007


As much as I can get momentarily excited by political minutiae, I appreciate that there's a thoughtful attempt to raise the signal to noise ratio.

I'm certain this policy will lead to some heated MeTa threads as the election gets closer, but boy, a little moderation is a nice thing.
posted by donovan at 8:47 PM on June 19, 2007


There are easy deletions and tricky deletions. I like the easy ones—few complaints, rarely cause to hesitate, and the stated reason is little more than a Burma Shave sign waiting to be written up: obvious double, or just a stunningly bad post on the face of it, or the like. Posts from long-time users; posts with obvious bad-faith intent. The kind of post that, if someone does start a metatalk post about 'em, popcorn-making comments show up inside of five minutes. They're easy because they're easy.

AskMe deletions don't trend easy, and while I do a fair amount of comment herding over there, Jessamyn does the lion's share of the (relatively infrequent) post deletions because her eye is on that side and she's got a more confident sense of the place. So I think she's like to get more shit just by virtue of that. Certainly, the small share of question deletions I've made have had a very high rate of complaints as compared with deletions from mefi proper.

How much of that translates by association, per-admin complaint, to the blue, I don't know. What and how much to put into a deletion reason is kind of non-trivial, because you don't want to write a book and you don't want to be dramatic and fire-fanning, but it's nice if it's kind of clear what's up. Knowing how much clarity is required is kind of a fuzzy game, though. The post here is, to my eye, blatantly bad, like double-take bad, and if I'd been the hand on the trigger the reason might have had a bad pun in it but it wouldn't have said much more than jessamyn's. Does it make a difference, and why, and what really drives it?

Anyway, I think it'd be hard to get past basic speculation and observation bias. And as it is, the [deletion + reason + admin email + occasional metatalk thread] system seems to work pretty well.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:49 PM on June 19, 2007


Don't Stop Deletin'

I would probably pay money to hear that song in MeFi Music...
posted by emelenjr at 9:17 PM on June 19, 2007


You had me at "weeaboo."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:19 PM on June 19, 2007


I diagree totally with the decision to delete, but this is only because jessamyn deleted this post recently, and I will be holding a grudge for at least a week.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 9:37 PM on June 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


Yeah, jessamyn has had it in for me lately. I think it is because I flagged her penis.

*holds jessamyn close, whispers "weeaboo" in her ear.
posted by vronsky at 10:01 PM on June 19, 2007 [1 favorite]


Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader
posted by timeistight at 10:26 PM on June 19, 2007


And as it is, the [deletion + reason + admin email + occasional metatalk thread+weeaboo] system seems to work pretty well.

Free followup joke: "Kwine, how can you say the system is working pretty well?Iif we waste any more time on weeaboo in MetaTalk we'll be bankrupt by the end of the month!"
posted by Kwine at 10:33 PM on June 19, 2007


I figured it was just a misplaced persecution complex.
Not so misplaced really, if you knew what people were saying about you behind your back.
posted by dg at 10:40 PM on June 19, 2007


cortex writes: "...if I'd been the hand on the trigger the reason might have had a bad pun in it..."

This thread is meaningless without your bad pun, cortex. I insist you share it with us now. And if in fact you don't actually have one, I urge you to make one up, post haste, and post it, post haste.

please?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:55 PM on June 19, 2007


Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader Nader

nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir nadir
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:56 PM on June 19, 2007


Might it be beneficial to extend the thread closing cutoff beyond one month? There's been a couple of posts recently to which I've wanted to post updates, but the thread was closed and it wasn't worth a new post in MeFi or MeTa.
posted by lalex at 11:33 PM on June 19, 2007


and for the Star Wars fans...
Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader
posted by wendell at 11:39 PM on June 19, 2007




She no doubt finds at least 15% of Americans creepy as well!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:47 AM on June 20, 2007 [1 favorite]


Upset about a political-filter post being deleted?

Step one: Go to Blogger and set up blog
Step two: Go wild posting comments and links on this blog
Step three: Post link to blog in Projects.
Step four: ????
Step five: Profit!
posted by gomichild at 1:28 AM on June 20, 2007


I honestly don't know if posters have ever been given the opportunity to clean up their own posts.

Yes, they have. It's that vast stretch of time leading up to that millisecond before they click "Submit."

(In other words, I wholly support policies encouraging more FPPs of the "measure twice, cut once" posting style)

(Also, long as I'm here, I wholly support candidates who don't feel the need for An Official Campaign Song)
posted by pineapple at 2:17 AM on June 20, 2007


I nominate George Thorogood's You Talk Too Much as MetaTalk Theme Song.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:30 AM on June 20, 2007


Aw crap, can you guys help me? I seemed to have misplaced my persecution complex. I know it's around here somewhere.
posted by chillmost at 3:56 AM on June 20, 2007


This deletion doesn't make sense.

Yes, yes it does.
posted by caddis at 5:29 AM on June 20, 2007


Since no one asked, a new poll finds that 15% of Americans find Hilary Clinton "creepy".

I wonder what the scores for Cheney, Bush, and Giuliani (among those who have actually heard what the had to say).

Btw, I think the deletion explanation sucked too. It should have explained that the post was incomprehensible, while this gave the idea that the content of the links themselves sucked, or was inappropriate somehow.
posted by delmoi at 5:50 AM on June 20, 2007


Since no one asked, a new poll finds that 15% of Americans find Hilary Clinton "creepy".

Huh. I woulda thought "wooden."
posted by namespan at 6:09 AM on June 20, 2007


What do you guys think of this electrion minutae post?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:10 AM on June 20, 2007


I already saw that one on the front page of the NY Times.
posted by smackfu at 6:18 AM on June 20, 2007


What do you guys think of this electrion minutae post?

It's fresh! It's tangy! Less filling!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:45 AM on June 20, 2007


To be honest - I don't think we take this far enough. We need a whole new section of the site elections.metafilter.com for example, and have one of those nifty map thingies like on the jobs page. I mean we've got enough scorn and vitriol - why just leave it for the elections of one country? Which aren't even for another 2 years?
posted by gomichild at 7:21 AM on June 20, 2007


What do you guys think of this electrion minutae post?
posted by jessamyn at 9:10 AM on June 20 [+] [!]


At least that one is real news, and even perhaps news of some importance. A link to some pol's homepage? Not so much.
posted by caddis at 7:22 AM on June 20, 2007


What do you guys think of this electrion minutae post?

Mmm, diminutive!

Snark aside, as Jessamyn said upthread, I think that it's going to be a long 18 months if every single teeny bit of '08 campaign news is suddenly FPP-worthy. There are loads of poli-blogs out there devoted to the daily activity; I don't think we need to be one.

(And, I say this as a self-proclaimed political junkie, and one who loves to chew over campaign minutiae as much as the next. But I also love to talk about lots of other stuff that I don't expect MeFi to provide for me.)

Where I expect it's hard for the mods is that not everyone's filters might be fine-tuned yet. "A new candidate might run as an independent for President of the UNITED STATES? With his own money? How is that not BEST OF THE WEBS!!?" Read the right article in the right frame of mind and sure, that becomes an FPP.

It's a matter of the community gaining some perspective -- and, recognizes that political blogging in a campaign year brings out the amateurs and those who grab low-hanging fruit*.

(I'm not accusing muddler, kliuless, or any other poster in particular of being a dilettante or naïf, just saying as a general observation)

I agree with gomichild (even if he/she was kidding): that maybe we can't stop the campaign post flood, and maybe shouldn't try to, and maybe we need to have a separate place for it. Theoretically, as with Projects, if there's something really worthy of coming out to the blue, the poli community (ha!!) will filter that.

*yeah, go ahead, you know you want to.
posted by pineapple at 7:29 AM on June 20, 2007


I think there are still some mixed messages being given by the admins here. "this is not at all right for here" implies that this topic is not appropriate for metafilter, and many of you in this thread have claimed that the deletion is a good way to stave off the coming PoliticsFilter for a bit longer. That makes sense to me, but then the later comment "The OP can do [some cleaning up and filling out] 24 hours from now or anyone else can take a shot at it" says basically the opposite.

If the post was deleted because it was incoherent, then say so, and perhaps someone will try to do a better job with the same subject on another day. If the post was deleted because the topic itself was no good, then nobody should be wasting their time "cleaning up and filling out" the post for a second attempt.

I'm not trying to pick on jessamyn, I'm just lobbying for clear deletion reasons. People can't improve the quality of their future posts if they don't know why the old ones were deleted.
posted by vytae at 8:15 AM on June 20, 2007 [2 favorites]


There will be a bazillion political posts as we approach the election, just like there have been prior to every other big election. There will also be a bazillion posts of neat little things that have been posted to the web, just like there always are. Plus there will be a half a bazillion posts about the newest releases from Google and Apple, plus another half a bazillion posts of inane youtube videos, just like there always are. Everyone will have something to love and something to complain about. That is the diversity which is Metafilter.
posted by caddis at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2007


While I am in a demanding mood I also think which should have a lol.metafilter.com section as well because dammit *I* am nowehere near sick of that meme yet.
posted by gomichild at 8:22 AM on June 20, 2007


If the post was deleted because it was incoherent, then say so, and perhaps someone will try to do a better job with the same subject on another day.

The last time people were seriously bitching about my deletion reasons it was because some people said they were "unkind" or too snarky. I delete maybe one post every few days from MeFi [excepting obvious doubles or self-links] and I honestly, truly, do not think that people use the deletion reasons as a way to learn how to make better posts to MetaFilter. Calling something "incoherent" to me seemed too snarky, even though it's what the first five comments basically said.

I've said this here pretty much every few weeks, but there are decent ways to make good posts out of "eh" material and there are many ways to make crappy posts out of decent material. The topic of this post, on its own, wasn't necessarily off base for MeFi but the presentation and the shoddy choice of links made it that way. In short, if it's going to be a PoliticsFilter post, it better answer the "and I should care about this WHY?" question at some level, especially considering the worldwide nature of our membership.

It was an eight word deletion reason that too many people read too much into. I'll be happy to be more clear in the future, but I don't think it will change anything. Deletion reasons here, by mathowie cortex or me, haven't traditionally been super clear in many cases and they are unlikely to become so, though I agree that overly cryptic reasons do enforce the cabal mentality somewhat. There are many other ways to figure out how to make a good post to MetaFilter and how to avoid making a bad one.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:42 AM on June 20, 2007 [2 favorites]


"this is not at all right for here" implies that this topic is not appropriate for metafilter

No. It implies that randomly incoherent political wordbarf is not appropriate for Metafilter. "This" means something other than what you think it means.
posted by majick at 8:52 AM on June 20, 2007


At first, I was really excited by that thread. Then it kind of stalled out for awhile. But eventually the tension really started to mount, and I couldn't tell whether it was gonna get whacked or not. Then my monitor went black. WTF jessamyn?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:05 AM on June 20, 2007


The last time people were seriously bitching about my deletion reasons it was because some people said they were "unkind" or too snarky.

Hey, I took that back after people started getting progressively dumber and lazier about their AskMes.

As for PoliFilter, I've said before that there aren't enough interesting and engaging links to justify their existence on the Blue, let alone support a sub-site. It'd become a fetid wankhole echo chamber within two days.

LOLFilter, however, is a star I'm hitching my wagon to.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:28 AM on June 20, 2007


I'd never have thought I'd favour any Dion song over, well, anything else, but now I have. In 1997, "New" Labour chose D:Ream's sub-Eurovision pap techno Things Can Only Get Better for its campaign song. Until you've seen massed ranks of pasty politicians shimmying to that, you haven't lived. I can't wait to see the DNC attempting to rock out to Dion.
posted by meehawl at 10:45 AM on June 20, 2007




Thanks for the clarification, jessamyn. That was exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for.
posted by vytae at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2007


What do you guys think of this electrion minutae post?


Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg
posted by timeistight at 1:22 AM on June 22, 2007


Bloomberg Bloomberg Bloomberg?
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:53 AM on June 22, 2007


So this is the MetaFilter echo chamber I keep hearing about!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:04 AM on June 22, 2007


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