I don't know where to start.

August 25, 2007 7:22 AM

The hip hop thread
posted by chunking express to etiquette/policy at 7:22 AM (81 comments total)

Sometimes I wish we had a "foe" feature like on slashdot.
posted by BeerFilter at 7:25 AM on August 25, 2007

Rap music fills Merlin with the rage.
posted by chunking express at 7:26 AM on August 25, 2007

From Metafilter's own Michael Richards.
posted by chillmost at 7:26 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

I removed the derail completely. What a douche.
posted by mathowie at 7:27 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

Thanks. For those who missed the party and are wondering what the fuss was all about:

Bitch, Bling, Nigger, Kill cops, Bling, Bitch, Ho's, Bling, Bling, Nigger, Nigger .................................... Bling, wordup Nigger?
posted by Merlin at 1:17 AM on August 25

Merlin: Was that really want you wanted to contribute to the discussion?
posted by lazaruslong at 1:34 AM on August 25

That's all rap music contributes isn't it?
posted by Merlin at 5:21 AM on August 25

I pop a cap in yo ass
posted by Merlin at 7:38 AM on August 25

Jesus Christ, what a total fucking failure this thread is. Wow.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:22 AM on August 25

Jesus Christ, what a total fucking failure this thread is. Wow.

The thread is fine, it's just Merlin's "contributions" that are failures.
posted by sneakin at 9:04 AM on August 25

Is it 'cause I should have spelt it nigga?
posted by Merlin at 9:34 AM on August 25


No, it's because you are a dick.
posted by chillmost at 10:13 AM on August 25

posted by chunking express at 7:33 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

Mind if I edit the post here? I don't want to have to look at "bitch, nigger, etc" for the next three days every time I load metatalk...
posted by mathowie at 7:39 AM on August 25, 2007 [4 favorites]

Merlin forgot the contributions of the Beastie Boys:

Jew ... beer. Brooklyn. Jew. Girls. Eggs ... Jews. Buddhism.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2007 [9 favorites]

I hope Matt changes it into this ^^^^^^.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:42 AM on August 25, 2007

That is one of the biggest problems with today's hip hop, but there are much better ways to express your dismay. Hip hop used to have themes of frustration, anger and hope for the inner city, but now seems mostly to be about bling and misogyny. Yawn. Still, Merlin was just being a jerk in that thread. Looking at his posting history, it is just a string of that sucks!
posted by caddis at 7:44 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

Mind if I edit the post here? I don't want to have to look at "bitch, nigger, etc" for the next three days every time I load metatalk...
posted by mathowie at 10:39 AM on August 25 [+] [!]

I think we are better off facing prejudice and hate speech full on, rather than trying to make it disappear like magic. Shout it down, don't disappear it.
posted by caddis at 7:46 AM on August 25, 2007

You could always toss it into the thread instead of leaving it on the front page of MeTa possibly?
posted by jessamyn at 7:48 AM on August 25, 2007

Please edit the page if you like.
posted by chunking express at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2007

caddis, i'm guessing you don't listen to much hip-hop. Just because they don't play interesting hip hop on MTV doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
posted by chunking express at 7:52 AM on August 25, 2007

Thanks Matt.

Caddis,
Merlin is not expressing his dismay at the state of hiphop like he's fucking Michael Eric Dyson or whatever, he's smearing shit on the walls and standing there proudly with one hand down his diaper. I hope he's not the point man for a sudden influx of 4chan teenage retards.

Is there a punk band called "Teenage Retards"? Why not?
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:54 AM on August 25, 2007

chunking: they don't play any music on MTV anymore, do they? all my kids pick up their hip-hop on BET.
posted by absalom at 7:56 AM on August 25, 2007

As long as we are on the subject, what is the brain lesion that causes people to flop into a thread about anything and announce that they don't like that thing like a petulant five year old child?

Does that happen in real life? Anyone ever have an adult walk up them while they're talking about sandwich meats and just say "I hate salami, god!"? Would you not just give them a huge purple nurple and shove them into the gutter?

Why is it especially prevalent with rap music? Why am I asking questions to which there are no answers other than "because some people are angry scared dickheads emboldened by the anonymity of the internet, Wino"?

Who wants a double stoli on the rocks?
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:06 AM on August 25, 2007 [8 favorites]

up to them, of course.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:06 AM on August 25, 2007

Well I live in Canada, where MTV isn't allowed to play music period (as I understand things), but BET and Much don't seem to do a much better job of showcasing a more nuanced look at Hip Hop music. I mean, even if you want to argue that all American Hip Hop is now crap -- which is pretty ridiculous -- a lot of the stuff that comes from abroad is interesting, politically charged, etc.

I'm listening to Lady Brown by Cise Star and Nujabes right now. Other people should too. It's not about bitches, guns, gangstas, or anything particularly negative.
posted by chunking express at 8:07 AM on August 25, 2007

I don't want to have to look at "bitch, nigger, etc" for the next three days every time I load metatalk...

We could all make some threads about fat people and/or George Bush thus creating many new MetaTalk posts very rapidly....
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:08 AM on August 25, 2007 [2 favorites]

Divine_Wino, the sys-admins I work with do that. It's annoying in real life too.
posted by chunking express at 8:11 AM on August 25, 2007

George Bush does not care about fat people.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:11 AM on August 25, 2007

Anyone ever have an adult walk up them while they're talking about sandwich meats and just say "I hate salami, god!"?

Yeah, actually. I avoid 'em when I can, but you don't always get to pick your co-workers.

also man I wish Phife and Q-Tip would lay off all that dang incessent copkilla rhetoric amirite
posted by cortex at 8:23 AM on August 25, 2007

Bitch, Bling, Nigger, Kill cops, Bling, Bitch, Ho's, Bling, Bling, Nigger, Nigger

That's disgusting. He used an apostrophe for a plural!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:23 AM on August 25, 2007 [10 favorites]

Bitches Ain't Shit, yo!
posted by Poolio at 8:34 AM on August 25, 2007

You on point cortex?
posted by vronsky at 8:37 AM on August 25, 2007

i find it remarkable that that people champion the worldview when couched in a musical genre but squirm when it's spelled out in print, and even resort to howling about racism when someone does so.

on the other hand, even this fat, doddering old white guy knows hiphop <> gangsta.
posted by quonsar at 8:39 AM on August 25, 2007 [2 favorites]

chunking express is a snitch!
posted by vronsky at 8:43 AM on August 25, 2007

Who's championing the worldview? On the contrary, it seems like people are lining up to point out that the worldview isn't as widespread and ubiquitous as mainstream media might make it appear. (Where have I heard that before?)
posted by box at 8:45 AM on August 25, 2007

Is it 'cause I should have spelt it nigga?
posted by Merlin at 9:34 AM on August 25

This ho laughed. Sorry.
posted by iconomy at 8:56 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

Dodder on you crazy diamond.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:56 AM on August 25, 2007

"Bitch, Ho's, Bling..."
Wait, wasn't that from the Mother Theresa thread?
posted by klarck at 8:57 AM on August 25, 2007

Thanks, Matt.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:13 AM on August 25, 2007

say, perhaps you could explain why a comment i made in a mother theresa thread in 2003 is suddenly getting faved? has there been a backreference to the thread recently?
posted by quonsar at 9:13 AM on August 25, 2007

There was a Mo Te thread Thursday, so that's probably what's up.
posted by cortex at 9:28 AM on August 25, 2007

Astro Zombie writes "Merlin forgot the contributions of the Beastie Boys:

Jew ... beer. Brooklyn. Jew. Girls. Eggs ... Jews. Buddhism."

I think you misspelled "Y'all ... y'all. Yes. Y'all. Yes ...Y'all. Y'all."

Divine_Wino writes "Does that happen in real life? Anyone ever have an adult walk up them while they're talking about sandwich meats and just say 'I hate salami, god!'?"

When it happens around me (seldom, but occasionally), it isn't "I hate salami", but "Why are you guys talking about sandwiches anyway? Talk about something interesting." And it's just as annoying in real life.
posted by Bugbread at 9:34 AM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

I've seen more music videos on Youtube in the past few months then I've seen on MTV in years.
posted by delmoi at 9:34 AM on August 25, 2007

The East Coast version of Merlin's rap:

Little Debbie Honey Buns, Ring Ding, Koffee Cake Junior, Butterskotch Krimpets, Ring Ding, Little Debbie Honey Buns, HoHo's, Ring Ding, Ring Ding, Coffee Cake Junior, Koffee Cake Junior.................................... Ring Ding, Yo Yo Yodel, Koffee Cake Junior?

I kept the apostrophe in for authenticity.
posted by iconomy at 9:35 AM on August 25, 2007

I love Aesop Rock. With every fiber in my body. "The Greatest Pac-Man Victory In History" is so good it makes my teeth hurt. The way he just uses words beginning with "L", "S" and "D" in the second verse is pure genius.

Of course, this is tangental. But if I get a chance to champion Aesop Rock, I take it.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 9:45 AM on August 25, 2007 [6 favorites]

Actually, from Merlin's perspective, shouldn't it be spelled "nigra"?

Seems like there's a good argument to be made that some popular black artists, who are getting paid by corporations run by rich old white guys, are perpetuating and glorifying the worst kind of racial stereotypes since Amos and Andy and minstrel shows.

Merlin's comments, however, were not that good argument.

(soundofsuburbia: Yay Aesop Rock!)
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:12 AM on August 25, 2007

Merlin is not expressing his dismay at the state of hiphop like he's fucking Michael Eric Dyson or whatever...

That's all rap music contributes isn't it?
posted by Merlin at 5:21 AM on August 25

More to the point he's just flat our wrong. If you believe that this is all there is in the world of rap music (sic, if in fact you believe that "rap music" is all there is in the world of hip hop) then you are so ignorant that there is no point in your participating in the discussion at all. Bill O'Reilly said this whole rap fad will blow over in a couple years anyway, right?
posted by nanojath at 10:35 AM on August 25, 2007

I thought that was Morton Downey, Jr.
posted by box at 10:37 AM on August 25, 2007

My caucasian!
posted by porn in the woods at 10:43 AM on August 25, 2007

I'm sort of surprised at the hip hop hate, after the raging success of Thou Shalt Always Kill in these parts.
posted by Arturus at 10:56 AM on August 25, 2007

are getting paid by corporations run by rich old white guys, are perpetuating and glorifying the worst kind of racial stereotypes since Amos and Andy and minstrel shows.

well, it's not exactly an argument, it's the simple observation of an actual phenomenon. the fact that forty years ago the most prominent African Americans were MLK, Thurgood Marshall and Rosa Parks, and nowadays they're Jay-Z, Kanye West and Lil'Kim is really not an argument, either -- it's a fact. rappers are in the business -- a well paid one at that -- of providing the perfect to fuel to the prejudices of the Bill O'Reillys of the world. as long as you entertain the white man, and play sports, it's all good for the racists -- you're harmless to the status quo. again, this is not argument, it's an observation. when black dissent is mainly represented by a fundamentally harmless comic strip instead that, say, by the Black Panthers, well, you just know that there's not much progress in sight for black people. they're just lucky that the gays won the title of most hated minority, so black people at least are now the second most hated

black entertainers or athletes know well that you just must not try to be, you know, actually controversial, because it's bad for business. and they'll wipe you out. anything else, you're free to do.
posted by matteo at 10:56 AM on August 25, 2007

soundofsuburbia - Aes has a new release coming out in the next week or two called "None Shall Pass". Can't wait to hear it. "Pac-Man" is one of favs of all time too.


I'm not burnin' bridges/I'm just bendin' 'em towards cats/that's worth the visits
posted by vito90 at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2007

(the comic strip I alluded to is of course the Boondocks or whatever its name is)
posted by matteo at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2007

I am disappointed that while we can discuss being a male porn star like civilized adults the moment hip hop is mentioned, it's pee-in-the-thread time. I know the blue and green have different rules, but I was just really hoping not to see that kind of obnoxious shit just because it was a thread about hip hop.
posted by sneakin at 10:58 AM on August 25, 2007

"rappers are in the business -- a well paid one at that -- of providing the perfect to fuel to the prejudices of the Bill O'Reillys of the world."

what does this sentence mean?
posted by vronsky at 11:30 AM on August 25, 2007

and can we make it biofuel?
posted by Samuel Farrow at 11:58 AM on August 25, 2007

Why does Merlin hate Peter Cottontail?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:12 PM on August 25, 2007

When it happens around me (seldom, but occasionally), it isn't "I hate salami", but "Why are you guys talking about sandwiches anyway? Talk about something interesting."

I am outraged that there are actually people in the world who think that sandwiches are not interesting. What has happened to our sandwich endorsing role models? Where are the Dagwoods, the Wimpys, the Earls of Sandwich to inspire today's youth?
posted by oneirodynia at 12:23 PM on August 25, 2007

I love sandwiches, they're incredible.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:29 PM on August 25, 2007

matteo -- Every day on my way to work I see this and every day it both wounds me and deeply pisses me off.
posted by GrammarMoses at 12:30 PM on August 25, 2007

I'm sort of surprised at the hip hop hate, after the raging success of Thou Shalt Always Kill in these parts.

I don't know why you would be. The very same people who were burning disco records at Wrigley's Field in the 70's would also be shaking their booty and letting the whole world know just how much fun it is to stay at the Y-M-C-A when it came time for their little sister's wedding.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2007

Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the four elements and never will be.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2007

Man, I loaded MeTa and thought that Chunking had posted here just to point out that he made a MeFi post (with a definitive article, no less!).

That it was just some random yobbo, and that it's got everyone so up in arms, both mitigates the WTF?-factor and reminds me that I should go outside rather than be caught up in all the piety.
posted by klangklangston at 12:48 PM on August 25, 2007

Pssst, matteo, you kinda forgot this guy.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:05 PM on August 25, 2007

hey remember when i got all mad because the admins were deleting comments

i think this is an exception just fyi
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:10 PM on August 25, 2007

GrammarMoses, that picture paints a rather accurately bleak picture of the culture we live in. I'm a middle class white guy and that picture just gets my blood boiling... Is this what we wanted?

Jesus wept.
posted by slimepuppy at 1:19 PM on August 25, 2007

I hate it when rappers use Comic Sans.
posted by Haruspex at 1:53 PM on August 25, 2007

Where are the Dagwoods, the Wimpys, the Earls of Sandwich to inspire today's youth?

they up in yo crib pimpin' yo hos, nigga.
posted by quonsar at 2:14 PM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

Incoming Hip-hop!

Maverick, you back them up with Merlin
on ready five.
posted by Kwine at 2:40 PM on August 25, 2007

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold everything.

How the hell did someone who joined in 2005 snag "Merlin?!"
posted by nanojath at 4:13 PM on August 25, 2007

Because it's kind of a lame, cheesy name and nobody else wanted it.
posted by dersins at 4:50 PM on August 25, 2007

Dat wack, my wizzle.
posted by cog_nate at 4:54 PM on August 25, 2007

I put on my robe and wizard hat.
posted by dismas at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2007 [4 favorites]

I can't wait till Gandalf pops his head in to say he thinks Doowop is a drag. It will be a regular wizard's convocation.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2007

Iceman got snagged up in 2001.
posted by puke & cry at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2007

I like how that Sean John ad says "conform now" to the left Mr. Diddy.
posted by jewzilla at 6:43 PM on August 25, 2007

Because it's kind of a lame, cheesy name and nobody else wanted it.

Don't tell that to friend of MeFi Merlin Mann, or he'll bust a cap in your ass.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:46 PM on August 25, 2007

I put on my robe and wizard hat.

WHAT THE FUCK? I TOLD YOU NOT TO MESSAGE ME AGAIN!
posted by loquacious at 7:23 PM on August 25, 2007 [5 favorites]

This should give you the requisite energy to not care about anything that transpires on a web forum.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:22 PM on August 25, 2007 [1 favorite]

ok, that was cool b-han. That almost makes up for the dreadful ketamine lyrics... almost.
posted by vronsky at 9:33 PM on August 25, 2007

Ketamine is dreadful...don't go looking for that shit.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:38 PM on August 25, 2007

I think I'm going to abandon the whole martini thing and just start flinging jism willy-nilly. That's right. WILLY. NILLY.
posted by tehloki at 1:02 AM on August 26, 2007

fandango_matt writes "Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the four elements and never will be."

Actually, much as I love Dan Le Sac, that's the bit of that record that always cracks me up. How does a middle aged Englishman get to lecture the world on what hiphop will or won't be? Guns, bitches and bling have been a pretty central part of the stuff that *I* like to listen to ever since NWA burst Straight Outta Compton.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:38 AM on August 26, 2007

In fact, now that I think about it, guns, bitches and bling have been central to hip-hop since Stagolee shot Billy.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:41 AM on August 26, 2007

It's calm yet wild the style that I speak
Just deal with facts and you will never get weak in the heart
In fact you'll start to illuminate
Knowledge to others in a song let me demonstrate
the force of knowledge, knowledge reigned supreme
The ignorant is ripped to smithereens
What do you mean when you say I'm rebellious
Cause I don't accept everything that you're telling us
What are you selling us the creator dwell in us
I sit in your unknown class while you're failing us
I failed your class cause I ain't with your reasoning
You're tryin make me you by seasoning
Up my mind with see Jane run
See John walk in a hardcore New York
Come on now, that's like a chocolate cow
It doesn't exist no way, no how
It seems to me that in a school that's ebony
African history should be pumped up steadily, but it's not
and this has got to stop
See Spot run, run get Spot
Insulting to a Black mentality
A Black way of life or a jet Black family
So I include with one concern, that
You must learn

KRS-1 to the rescue.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:24 AM on August 26, 2007

Ah, KRS-1. Is he still whining about Nelly stopping him from selling records?

Not saying there isn't a place for the teachers and philosophers, fourcheesemac. I'm simply saying that it's nonsense to deny the fact that the gangsta stuff isn't just as central a part of hiphop as that stuff is. Without it, you'd have no Snoop, no Dre, no Jay-Z or Biggie or Nas. The music would be a much sadder, less vital form than it is without that element.

But I don't hear anybody insisting that white artists only produce art about positive and life enhancing experiences? Why is that? I don't hear the media whining about Lou Reed giving birth to a generation of heroin addicts because he wrote about Heroin.

So how is it that when white musicians write about negative aspects of the culture they're depicting it, but when black musicians do it, they're promoting it?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:03 AM on August 26, 2007 [3 favorites]

Would have been much more interesting if it were by merlinmann.
posted by mkultra at 10:44 AM on August 26, 2007

On the plus side, I would have completely missed that post if it weren't for this. So thanks Merlin!
And you too, chunking
posted by yerfatma at 12:05 PM on August 26, 2007