Killing Joke thread killed October 5, 2007 10:19 AM Subscribe
FPP Deletion
Cortex, I'm protesting your deletion of PSmealey's Killing Joke FPP . I thought it was very worthwhile regardless of the fact that PS decided to post the Wiki piece on the band. Methinks this is perhaps a case of a too itchy trigger finger, no?
What cortex said. I started down a path which good intentions, got a bit carried away with it, and then was so invested it I ended up posting. It was bad judgment on my part. I agree that it should have been deleted. If there's appetite for it, I will be happy to completely restructure and rewrite the post with all original content as soon as I am again eligible.
posted by psmealey at 10:32 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by psmealey at 10:32 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Take your time preparing your second K.Joke post, so you can really Jaz it up.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:39 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by porn in the woods at 10:39 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
porn in the woods: "Take your time preparing your second K.Joke post, so you can really Jaz it up."
No, the lesson here is that you should spend less time on your posts.
posted by Plutor at 10:41 AM on October 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
No, the lesson here is that you should spend less time on your posts.
posted by Plutor at 10:41 AM on October 5, 2007 [2 favorites]
I support the deletion. Even setting aside the issue of "borrowing" part of someone else's material for a post, it strikes me that THIS is exactly what Wikipedia is for.
Take an article, edit it, flesh it out... that's what you do on Wikipedia. It's not necessarily horrible material for MeFi, but I agree that the precedent needed to be nipped in the bud.
posted by scarabic at 10:53 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Take an article, edit it, flesh it out... that's what you do on Wikipedia. It's not necessarily horrible material for MeFi, but I agree that the precedent needed to be nipped in the bud.
posted by scarabic at 10:53 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
You should replace it with a threads that replicates the wikipedia entry for Killing Moon, instead.
i kid because i love!
posted by dersins at 10:56 AM on October 5, 2007
i kid because i love!
posted by dersins at 10:56 AM on October 5, 2007
...which is not to be confused with "Under a Killing Moon".
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:58 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:58 AM on October 5, 2007
No dersins, the Killing Moon will come too soon
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 11:00 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 11:00 AM on October 5, 2007
When the author of the deleted post agrees with the deletion: Case Closed.
(BTW, I have no joke, killing or otherwise, but if a new post is made, I may grab a link to Monty Python's 'Ultimate Joke' sketch)
posted by wendell at 11:00 AM on October 5, 2007
(BTW, I have no joke, killing or otherwise, but if a new post is made, I may grab a link to Monty Python's 'Ultimate Joke' sketch)
posted by wendell at 11:00 AM on October 5, 2007
psmealey - you're being totally decent about this. Good example.
I flagged the post, though, and I think it was a good deletion, for reasons beyond the text lifted from Wikipedia, which is not ultimately that big of a deal.
It'd be a great post for a personal blog. But as a post here it just strikes me as indistinguishable from a self-link. It's not "Here's someone's excellent Killing Joke site, they did a fantastic job, check it out," it's "please read my essay about Killing Joke." If you posted it on your own blog and linked to it, you know you'd get shit about that - this is just skipping the intermediate step.
Your favorite band, in this case, totally doesn't suck. But the post did. The same goes for a lot of recent posts of the "I've been listening to X recently! They're pretty great! Here are all their videos and they once played with Ozzy and their guitar player uses tortex picks..." variety.
With thousands of members here, many of whom are just as hip as you are, you can always rest assured that such a post will be pretty well received - insofar as the thread will be full of "You're right! X sure is pretty great!" from other fans. But I don't think it makes it a good post for MetaFilter, and it shouldn't get spared the axe just because it took a lot of time to make.
posted by Wolfdog at 11:01 AM on October 5, 2007 [5 favorites]
I flagged the post, though, and I think it was a good deletion, for reasons beyond the text lifted from Wikipedia, which is not ultimately that big of a deal.
It'd be a great post for a personal blog. But as a post here it just strikes me as indistinguishable from a self-link. It's not "Here's someone's excellent Killing Joke site, they did a fantastic job, check it out," it's "please read my essay about Killing Joke." If you posted it on your own blog and linked to it, you know you'd get shit about that - this is just skipping the intermediate step.
Your favorite band, in this case, totally doesn't suck. But the post did. The same goes for a lot of recent posts of the "I've been listening to X recently! They're pretty great! Here are all their videos and they once played with Ozzy and their guitar player uses tortex picks..." variety.
With thousands of members here, many of whom are just as hip as you are, you can always rest assured that such a post will be pretty well received - insofar as the thread will be full of "You're right! X sure is pretty great!" from other fans. But I don't think it makes it a good post for MetaFilter, and it shouldn't get spared the axe just because it took a lot of time to make.
posted by Wolfdog at 11:01 AM on October 5, 2007 [5 favorites]
I was just about to post this link to a transcription of the Courtauld Talks when the post was yanked.
psmealey, I hope you take another crack at it. KJ is a great band, and Jaz is one of my favorite frontmen.
posted by malocchio at 11:02 AM on October 5, 2007
psmealey, I hope you take another crack at it. KJ is a great band, and Jaz is one of my favorite frontmen.
posted by malocchio at 11:02 AM on October 5, 2007
One of MetaFilter's founding tenets and an important factor in the "feel" of the site is the idea that the bulk of moderation is done through social norms and peer pressure, referred to as "self-policing" in a site tagline. Posts that do not meet the community's standards for quality are often "called out" to MetaTalk, an administrative area of the site, and interested members discuss how the post could have been improved, or, in some cases, ruthlessly mock the offender. (Sometimes the community consensus, after discussion, is that the call-out was unwarranted.) On rare occasions, Haughey steps in and bans egregious offenders from the site temporarily or permanently. Particularly good posts are, conversely, called out for plaudits and are regularly selected by Haughey to be featured on the main page's sidebar.
posted by brain_drain at 11:03 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by brain_drain at 11:03 AM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Could a mod alter the CSS so long deletion reasons are readable? At the moment, in Firefox at least, the first line is overlapped by the second line, making it unreadable.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 11:07 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by Aloysius Bear at 11:07 AM on October 5, 2007
(To brain_drain, that was.)
Aloysius Bear: are you using the Plain theme? Because I think that's the problem—doesn't come up in the default theme. It's a known issue, and hopefully will be fixed soonish.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:09 AM on October 5, 2007
Aloysius Bear: are you using the Plain theme? Because I think that's the problem—doesn't come up in the default theme. It's a known issue, and hopefully will be fixed soonish.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:09 AM on October 5, 2007
honestly, I loved the post, but I can easily see why we don't want to start the precedent that wikipedia can be the base from which we craft our posts, at least not so directly.
posted by shmegegge at 11:15 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by shmegegge at 11:15 AM on October 5, 2007
If there's appetite for it, I will be happy to completely restructure and rewrite the post with all original content as soon as I am again eligible.
posted by psmealey at 1:32 PM on October 5 [+] [!]
*tips hat to psmealey*
Very gracious, and I'll chime in: there's appetite for it! Seeing the original post brought back some very old and very welcome memories for me, and I'd love to see what else you might do with it.
posted by Elsa at 11:22 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by psmealey at 1:32 PM on October 5 [+] [!]
*tips hat to psmealey*
Very gracious, and I'll chime in: there's appetite for it! Seeing the original post brought back some very old and very welcome memories for me, and I'd love to see what else you might do with it.
posted by Elsa at 11:22 AM on October 5, 2007
Could a mod alter the CSS so long deletion reasons are readable? At the moment, in Firefox at least, the first line is overlapped by the second line, making it unreadable.
It's on the "to do" list for when pb is fully back. It's only broken in the plain theme which is the one I use as well.
On rare occasions, Haughey steps in and bans egregious offenders from the site temporarily or permanently. Particularly good posts are, conversely, called out for plaudits and are regularly selected by Haughey to be featured on the main page's sidebar.
I guess that needs some editing...
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:25 AM on October 5, 2007
It's on the "to do" list for when pb is fully back. It's only broken in the plain theme which is the one I use as well.
On rare occasions, Haughey steps in and bans egregious offenders from the site temporarily or permanently. Particularly good posts are, conversely, called out for plaudits and are regularly selected by Haughey to be featured on the main page's sidebar.
I guess that needs some editing...
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:25 AM on October 5, 2007
I honestly don't understand why you couldn't have simply linked to the Wikipedia article—perhaps with a small-type disclaimer like (I know, but this is a great Wikipedia article, trust me)—and then added your own links. Even without the Wikipedia-copying angle, many many paragraphs make a lousy post. Less is more.
posted by languagehat at 11:28 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by languagehat at 11:28 AM on October 5, 2007
For the record, the plain theme problem shows up in IE as well. Which you most likely knew already.
posted by breezeway at 11:42 AM on October 5, 2007
posted by breezeway at 11:42 AM on October 5, 2007
many many paragraphs make a lousy post
ORLY?
I kid, I kid. Points well taken. I still think this band is worthy of a good FPP beyond the "My Favorite Band Post" critique that Wolfdog describes above. We'll see if I have the nerve to try again some day.
posted by psmealey at 11:46 AM on October 5, 2007
ORLY?
I kid, I kid. Points well taken. I still think this band is worthy of a good FPP beyond the "My Favorite Band Post" critique that Wolfdog describes above. We'll see if I have the nerve to try again some day.
posted by psmealey at 11:46 AM on October 5, 2007
See, and what I did was I found that entry on his blog, and I linked to it with my blog, because it was a good blog entry (if not, maybe, the best thing for an FPP).
Also, when you mention the influences, you should link to the song "The Eighties" for Nirvana.
posted by klangklangston at 11:52 AM on October 5, 2007
Also, when you mention the influences, you should link to the song "The Eighties" for Nirvana.
posted by klangklangston at 11:52 AM on October 5, 2007
If the deleted FPP ever gets rewritten, I would like to see some sort of citation for the claim that Edward Van Halen has "praised" Geordie Walker's guitar playing.
For some reason, I find it very hard to believe that the author of "Right Now" listens to Killing Joke records.
posted by melorama at 12:11 PM on October 5, 2007
For some reason, I find it very hard to believe that the author of "Right Now" listens to Killing Joke records.
posted by melorama at 12:11 PM on October 5, 2007
This MeTa call out was worth it for all the bad jokes alone.
posted by Skygazer at 12:43 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by Skygazer at 12:43 PM on October 5, 2007
I am voting for a new Killing Joke post someday psmealy.
posted by josher71 at 12:55 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by josher71 at 12:55 PM on October 5, 2007
What do I want? A post about J. G. Thirlwell! When do I want it? Now! Why can't I do it myself? Because I'm lazy and I'm not too fond of the posts Wolfdog mentioned anyway! But then why do I want it? Because he's made all these records and I do not know where to begin!
posted by soundofsuburbia at 12:55 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by soundofsuburbia at 12:55 PM on October 5, 2007
fuck yeah, jg thirlwell needs a post! if for no other reason than to let people know that the music to venture brothers is fucking awesome!
posted by shmegegge at 1:20 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by shmegegge at 1:20 PM on October 5, 2007
decided to post the Wiki piece on the band
Could we please not refer to Wikipedia as "the Wiki?"
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:01 PM on October 5, 2007
Could we please not refer to Wikipedia as "the Wiki?"
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:01 PM on October 5, 2007
Is this a joke or are you seriously protesting the deletion of a 12-paragraph post about a band?
posted by timeistight at 2:13 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by timeistight at 2:13 PM on October 5, 2007
Cortex is is mean he once deleted a post just for snoring too loud.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:41 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:41 PM on October 5, 2007
Is this a joke or are you seriously protesting the deletion of a 12-paragraph post about a band?
I started out pretty serious, but now I'm just joking. (and trying to stay away from Cortex's finger which curiously, Quonsar has olfactory knowledge of...)
posted by Skygazer at 2:50 PM on October 5, 2007
I started out pretty serious, but now I'm just joking. (and trying to stay away from Cortex's finger which curiously, Quonsar has olfactory knowledge of...)
posted by Skygazer at 2:50 PM on October 5, 2007
Just chiming in to reiterate what a good sport psmealey is! Cheers to you. (waiting for the repost.)
posted by snsranch at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by snsranch at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2007
Aha! So cortex is the Jaz police!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:59 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:59 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Cortex once deleted a thread in Reno just to watch it die.
Cortex once deleted a thread for eating crackers in bed.
Cortex once deleted a thread for looking at him funny.
His trigger finger may be itchy and smelly, but it's his middle finger everybody recognizes. See? There it is again! Uh oh.
posted by wendell at 5:00 PM on October 5, 2007
Cortex once deleted a thread for eating crackers in bed.
Cortex once deleted a thread for looking at him funny.
His trigger finger may be itchy and smelly, but it's his middle finger everybody recognizes. See? There it is again! Uh oh.
posted by wendell at 5:00 PM on October 5, 2007
Ever get the feeling you've been deleted?
posted by psmealey at 5:27 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by psmealey at 5:27 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Ever get the feeling you've been deleted?
(This is me singing to you ala BBKing) Ohhhhhh yeeeaaa! I ben deletet, oooooone tooo many timmmmmees!
posted by snsranch at 5:52 PM on October 5, 2007
(This is me singing to you ala BBKing) Ohhhhhh yeeeaaa! I ben deletet, oooooone tooo many timmmmmees!
posted by snsranch at 5:52 PM on October 5, 2007
Personally, I'd've deleted it as soon as I saw '...Killing Joke is...'.
posted by jack_mo at 5:54 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by jack_mo at 5:54 PM on October 5, 2007
I've been cheated
Been deleted
When will I be loved?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:55 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
Been deleted
When will I be loved?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:55 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
C'mon, Jack_mo, that's a stylebook issue!
posted by klangklangston at 6:58 PM on October 5, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 6:58 PM on October 5, 2007
Wow. That's a deletion I can rally behind. WikiFilter R Not Us, thank god.
I thought this post from a week or two ago was excellent. I really liked the way he composed that; good hook and good more-inside.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:20 PM on October 5, 2007
I thought this post from a week or two ago was excellent. I really liked the way he composed that; good hook and good more-inside.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:20 PM on October 5, 2007
psmeasly loves Killing Joke. Like blood.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:51 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:51 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't know if it's too late to add to the above comments about J. G. Thirlwell, but count me on the bandwagon.
posted by spiderskull at 12:13 AM on October 6, 2007
posted by spiderskull at 12:13 AM on October 6, 2007
Well done, psmealey!
posted by languagehat at 6:19 AM on October 6, 2007
posted by languagehat at 6:19 AM on October 6, 2007
Don't get mad, get even!
posted by five fresh fish at 8:41 AM on October 6, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 8:41 AM on October 6, 2007
psmealey - you're being totally decent about this so just cut it the fuck out!!! You wanna get banned???
posted by The Deej at 9:10 PM on October 6, 2007
posted by The Deej at 9:10 PM on October 6, 2007
I am hoping to quietly make it to my 100th post, and then flame out dramatically. Maybe do a link to a goatse picture on my blog for my 101st.... I dunno, it's a rough idea, still working on it.
posted by psmealey at 8:40 AM on October 7, 2007
posted by psmealey at 8:40 AM on October 7, 2007
That's got promise, man. Just don't let the mods find out.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:55 AM on October 7, 2007
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:55 AM on October 7, 2007
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I've discussed it with psmealey in email as well already (and joked, kill me now, about the probability of a metatalk thread) and reiterated what the deletion reason says: a try-again post that does not essentially reproduce the wikipedia article would be totally decent as far as I'm concerned, especially given the enthusiasm for the topic.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:24 AM on October 5, 2007