Metafilter Music Collaboration #2

April 29, 2008 3:13 AM

A bunch of us had fun with goodnewsfortheinsane's "It's the End of the World..." project last year. I think it's time to try another project, Exquisite Corpse style.

Here is my proposal: I have a little tune to use as the "seed." I'll send it to Person #1. Person #1 will record a track to go along with it, and will send that track -- isolated -- not including the seed track -- to Person #2. Person #2 will record a track to go along with Person #1's track, and will send their track -- but not Person #1's track -- to Person #3.

And so on. Each contributor hears only the last person's contribution.

There are details to be worked out (like: should percussion get its own "spur"?), but that's basically the deal. After "enough" people contribute, I'll try to put everything together.

Interested?

posted by Karlos the Jackal to MetaFilter Music at 3:13 AM (87 comments total)

Count me in.
posted by bunnytricks at 5:31 AM on April 29, 2008

That sounds insane. I mean, I'm not gonna say no, but it does sound a little insane. You guys are gonna hate my track of meowing cats.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:39 AM on April 29, 2008

YES.
posted by loiseau at 5:40 AM on April 29, 2008

Want to. Can't.
posted by Jofus at 5:43 AM on April 29, 2008

Just a thought, but there should probably be a "no reverb" rule. A couple dozen different rooms with a couple dozen flavors of reverb would be impossible to mix into anything coherent.
posted by bunnytricks at 5:45 AM on April 29, 2008

Please let me in this.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:51 AM on April 29, 2008

Oh yeah, why would you print reverb? Unless you've got access to an EMT plate or something, in which case stick it on a separate track. The exception being spring on a guitar or something, when it's part of the "sound."
posted by uncleozzy at 5:55 AM on April 29, 2008

I said I'd try it last time, and now I'm saying it again.
posted by davey_darling at 6:09 AM on April 29, 2008

What about posting all of the finished tracks separately at the end so that multiple people could take a shot at mixing them? It would be fun to see who can come up with the best remix that uses at least some part of all of the tracks.
posted by burnmp3s at 6:10 AM on April 29, 2008 [3 favorites]

Oh yeah, I'd definitely like to take a crack at mixing it. (I just took part in a mixing "event" elsewhere on these interwebs, and it was tremendously educational.) Although it'll be a huge job, given that nobody really knows what anybody else has recorded. It still sounds insane. I dig it.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:16 AM on April 29, 2008

Man, I'm in. This thing is going to turn out weird, but yeah.

A reference click or percussion seed seems like a good idea; some way to convey tempo other than forcing each contribution to carry it, and making sure the more melodic contributions have something to follow other than atonal percussion, etc.

What about posting all of the finished tracks separately at the end so that multiple people could take a shot at mixing them?

Yeah, definitely. We did that for the previous project, though I can't remember any specific remixes that came of it.
posted by cortex at 7:07 AM on April 29, 2008

Want to. Barred from touching musical instruments on penalty of criminal prosecution and/ or burning at the stake. (I'm that bad.)

I will, however, be happy to listen to anything that is produced.
posted by quin at 7:12 AM on April 29, 2008

Yeah, as much as organic would be nice, this'd get really messy without a click. Or at least a tone track to line everybody up at beat 1. But a click or percussion bed would be better. An uneven tempo would be okay, but I think some people might have trouble working with it.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:28 AM on April 29, 2008

I'm definitely in, both for tracking and mixing.

We did that for the previous project, though I can't remember any specific remixes that came of it.

I did two, only one of which I ever posted. I should probably post the other.
posted by god hates math at 7:38 AM on April 29, 2008

I'd love to be in on this, too. Thirding the click track.
posted by xorry at 7:44 AM on April 29, 2008

Ohh, and should we have a key designated, also? I'm thinking we could have an interesting mess after person X passes his cowbell track on to person X+1. Or... is not having a specific one part of the fun?
posted by xorry at 7:46 AM on April 29, 2008

There should be a click + simple chord progression -track so there's at least a semblance of harmony and rhythm.
posted by signal at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2008

And I'm in, for this one (balked the last time for lack of love for R.E.M. in general and ITEOTWAWKI in particular).
posted by signal at 8:23 AM on April 29, 2008

Totally absolutely in. And I second the click track/progression idea.
posted by potch at 8:35 AM on April 29, 2008

Amazingly intriguing. I look forward to seeing(actually, hearing) what the lot of you end up producing. I might take a shot at mixing, but I don't think I could contribute a track. I don't even know where my guitar has gotten off to these days.
posted by owtytrof at 8:36 AM on April 29, 2008

So Karlos, what's in this seed track? Percussion? Autoharp? Coffee can full of beans?
posted by uncleozzy at 8:44 AM on April 29, 2008

This is a fine idea. I'm down.

I'd vote for a click, too. And for multiple remix chances.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:49 AM on April 29, 2008

WANT.
posted by ORthey at 9:29 AM on April 29, 2008

Count me in too.
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:52 AM on April 29, 2008

Count me in.
posted by emelenjr at 9:53 AM on April 29, 2008

I'd try.
posted by chococat at 10:19 AM on April 29, 2008

I'll volunteer to throw some additional weird into the mix
posted by nanojath at 10:28 AM on April 29, 2008

I'm in. Definitely post the puzzle pieces so that several mixes can result.
posted by umbú at 10:29 AM on April 29, 2008

Dang - I have a hard time imagining this thing sounding good. For this to work, every single track would need to capture the harmony, melody, rhythm of the song. If you loose any of these, the latter tracks will not work at all with the earlier tracks.

How do you let people that only play drums contribute? How about people that would like to just add ambient sound or something?

I think you need to give the same "seed" track to everyone

Anyway, count me in
posted by jpdoane at 10:32 AM on April 29, 2008

or on non-preview, what xorry said
posted by jpdoane at 10:33 AM on April 29, 2008

Dang - I have a hard time imagining this thing sounding good.

I totally hear you on this, but I guess I'm just sort of willingly embracing the tonally bizarre mess we're going to end up with, is the thing. People probably have different ideas here of just how to manage an audio analogue to Exquisite Corpse; I find the incoherence of that game to be the essential charm.

So the whole idea of a rambling, tonally-borked-as-a-whole collection of tracks actually appeals to me, but it might not be what some folks are thinking of. I see the outcome of this thing being (a) a giant, bizarre mix, along with (b) some way to present the move from one adjascent pair or trio of tracks to the next, perhaps as a mix with a running crossfade down the mix of tracks.

It's a big messy adventure, in other words.
posted by cortex at 10:59 AM on April 29, 2008

It's a big messy adventure, in other words.

Ok cool. Just so we have the proper expectations. This will be mostly an adventure in creative editing... I'm thinking what will end up happening is sort of a revolving window where "neighboring" tracks fade in and out over each other, rather than trying to mix everything together at once. Actually, that could be kinda cool.

Anyway add me to the list. Everything needs a guitar solo. Especially big messy adventures.
posted by jpdoane at 11:08 AM on April 29, 2008

I'm in.
posted by smartyboots at 11:28 AM on April 29, 2008

Oh hell yes.
posted by regicide is good for you at 11:46 AM on April 29, 2008

I'm in.

I will add another vote for the click track and the basic chord progression chart.
posted by tdismukes at 11:53 AM on April 29, 2008

Also, to avoid this taking forever and/or never ending, I would suggest having a set time limit to finish your version and give it to whoever's next in line. If you don't come up with something before the deadline you would have to give up and pass the previous version on to the next person instead.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:00 PM on April 29, 2008

Awesome, count me in.
posted by equalpants at 12:48 PM on April 29, 2008

I'm in, but only if there is NOT a chord progression chart.

I think whoever puts the thing together should have license to reorganize things, like working from a bank of samples, rather than just overlaying everything on top of each other.
posted by speicus at 1:31 PM on April 29, 2008

I think whoever puts the thing together should have license to reorganize things, like working from a bank of samples, rather than just overlaying everything on top of each other.

This is what I was thinking, too. It wouldn't end up as "here is everyone playing at once from Point A to Point B" -- anyone mixing it would have the freedom to extend parts, mute them, shift them around in time (or even pitch, I guess), add effects, or do whatever they want.

Click Track: I could put up a click track as a seperate file. If you want to try recording without it (maybe you're doing something more ambienty), go ahead, but it's here if you want it.

Drums: Perhaps they would occupy a seperate "spur." When someone records percussion, it branches off from the main thread and gets sent to the next percussionist, while the main thread backs up one step. (Atonal stuff could do the same.)

Chords: The seed is a very short melody, so I haven't really thought about chords (I'm not much on music theory). Maybe the chord progression (once one is established by someone else) could be posted as a spoiler or something -- "click here to see the chord progression."

The seed is a 20-second melody line and that's it. I'll loop it a few times so that Person #1 has some time to work with it. (Nothing will stop any contributor from looping it over and over and recording a 10-minute track, either.) I thought it would be fun to start simple and see how complex things get. Once tracks are done, their entrances and exits can be staggered to make the song as long as we like.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:39 PM on April 29, 2008

Count me in, please!
posted by cabingirl at 3:10 PM on April 29, 2008

If you don't come up with something before the deadline you would have to give up and pass the previous version on to the next person instead.

Yes, definitely agree with this. Count me in!
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:32 PM on April 29, 2008

I'm in. Thanks Karlos!
posted by jayCampbell at 3:37 PM on April 29, 2008

i'm totally in - for a track contribution (not necessarily mixing any of this stuff later [yikes!]).
posted by garfy3 at 4:32 PM on April 29, 2008

Would it make sense to have more than 1 thread, say 3 or so, depending on how many people sign up, so we're not all sitting around waiting for our turn?
posted by signal at 4:34 PM on April 29, 2008

That's not a bad idea, signal. Maybe group contributors into lots of five, start every group with the same seed, go from there. A good Corpse usually runs four or five turns anyway, and this might reduce somewhat the drift if there are several parallel evolutions instead of one extremely long game of telephone.
posted by cortex at 4:41 PM on April 29, 2008

This sounds like great fun, please count me in too!
posted by snsranch at 5:23 PM on April 29, 2008

Karlos: Unless we use mp3s, how are we going to send tracks to just you and the next person in line? Large, high fidelity files are too big for email (well, gmail at least) and require an FTP server but if we upload to there then everyone involved can grab them.
posted by bunnytricks at 6:56 PM on April 29, 2008

Hey bunnytricks, I've been sending decent quality mp3s on hotmail for a while now and haven't had any problems. (Exactly the same as for MeFiMusic)
posted by snsranch at 7:10 PM on April 29, 2008

We could stipulate 320 Kbps or whatever, no?
posted by signal at 7:12 PM on April 29, 2008

Does anyone remember what the standard format for MeFiMusic is? All I know is that if it's not quite right things either won't play or will play too fast or slow.
posted by snsranch at 7:18 PM on April 29, 2008

signal, yes.
posted by snsranch at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2008

I'm not much with technology, so if someone (snranch?) wants to issue a fiat and say "this is the format we will use" that would be the best thing.

Would it make sense to have more than 1 thread, say 3 or so, depending on how many people sign up, so we're not all sitting around waiting for our turn?

Sure; I was thinking about this in a limited sense already, in terms of percussion having its own thread. (It might be better to split or start another thread further into the process, once there's a sense of how many people are actually participating as opposed to just pledging; I think gnfti had about 15 people out of 50, which I think is actually pretty good.)

Tonight or tommorow I will tally up people who have said "I'm in" and send out a MeMail asking what you think you might contribute (just so that we don't start off with uncleozzy's all-cat track) and if you're ready now or if you want to come in later down the line. Then I will put together a flowchart based on that.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 9:38 PM on April 29, 2008

I'll offer hosting and a content management system if wanted.
posted by jayCampbell at 10:24 PM on April 29, 2008

In.

Please do not include any chord charts. A chord chart is an abstraction, and I think it would detract from the concrete immediacy that makes an exquisite corpse what it is.
posted by univac at 2:47 AM on April 30, 2008

univac, you can always just ignore any chord charts that might accompany the audio files, but for those who'd like to have them, well, why shouldn't they have them? No problem, right?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:18 AM on April 30, 2008

Actually, my cats are not very cooperative at meowing on cue. I might have to hang some mics in the kitchen at feeding time. Or, failing that, replace my missing nose whistle and give you all a real treat. Or possibly a chopsticks-on-cookware percussion track.

Also, to the subject of file formats. I don't know how you guys are with FLAC (I haven't tried it, but I hear it's the cat's pajamas), but it ought to reduce the size of the WAVs by half or so losslessly, which would be nice.

Alternatively, we could pass around 192kbps MP3/AAC during the tracking process, and post WAV/FLAC files for the mix (I like this). We should also agree on a bitrate (probably 44.1kHz).
posted by uncleozzy at 6:06 AM on April 30, 2008

This sounds awesome! Count me in, as long as I don't need to remember to come back to this thread to remind myself that I'm participating...
posted by dan g. at 7:37 AM on April 30, 2008

Sounds mad enough to work. Count me in, please.
posted by Grangousier at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2008

Count me in, definitely. I need more excuses to write music.
posted by wanderingmind at 9:23 AM on April 30, 2008

I would like to be in. Can I just have the opportunity to submit a track without the pressure of knowing if I totally fail it won't hold up anyone else?

... I guess if that isn't possible I will sign up anyway. Hah.
posted by blacklite at 11:39 AM on April 30, 2008

In.
posted by Pallas Athena at 11:53 AM on April 30, 2008

Karlos, I'm not sure how I'll respond to your e-mail because what I do will depend on what I'm given, right? I guess I could give you some hypothetical directions.
posted by umbú at 12:52 PM on April 30, 2008

in
posted by !Jim at 3:34 PM on April 30, 2008

I've been using mp3 at 128kbps for sharing on e-mail and uploading to MeFiMu with no problems.

Sound good to y'all?
posted by snsranch at 3:59 PM on April 30, 2008

I promise to make this as weird and psychedelic as I possibly can.
posted by tehloki at 4:07 PM on April 30, 2008

Karlos, I'm not sure how I'll respond to your e-mail because what I do will depend on what I'm given, right? I guess I could give you some hypothetical directions.

Yes, that's fine. Anybody can change their mind at any time. What I am thinking about is being able to alternate people so that, say, a ukelele player doesn't get a track from another ukelele player, but those are bridges that we may decide to not even cross.

(Next time we will use a randomizer to determine what instrument everyone plays, regardless of ability or availablility.)
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:51 PM on April 30, 2008

...we will use a randomizer to determine what instrument everyone plays, regardless of ability or availablility.

I have no ability on the nose flute, and they are unavailable in my area, so sign me up for nose flute. What? The nose flute slot is taken? OK, then, I'll take alphorn.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:40 PM on April 30, 2008

...say, a ukelele player doesn't get a track from another ukelele player, but those are bridges that we may decide to not even cross...

Or, you know, maybe one ukulele player could play his part behind the bridge. Or maybe just remove the bridge altogether, so the strings go all floppy and it won't sound like a ukulele anyway. Yeah, that'd solve the problem.

signed,

James Brown

P.S. Can I take it to the bridge!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:45 PM on April 30, 2008

I'm in, if I can scrape up a mic.
posted by fleacircus at 7:45 PM on April 30, 2008

I've got a scraped up mic you can borrow.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:46 PM on April 30, 2008

Can I take it to the bridge!

I haven't seen it. Has anyone seen the bridge?
posted by !Jim at 8:24 PM on April 30, 2008

I burned all mine behind me.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:42 PM on April 30, 2008

I have sent out thirty MeFi Mails, which is apparently the maximum allowed per hour. I will send out the rest in an hour or so.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 11:17 PM on April 30, 2008

Okay, I've sent out a total of 36 MeFi Mails (and one reg'lar email). If you think you should've gotten one and you didn't, let me know.

If you're just now finding this and want to contribute, that's okay; the serial nature should allow us to fold in newcomers fairly easily. Post here or drop me a line.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 12:23 AM on May 1, 2008

Someone should set up one of them internet-websites so that we can organize off-site if need be.
posted by !Jim at 2:12 AM on May 1, 2008

I've been using mp3 at 128kbps for sharing on e-mail and uploading to MeFiMu with no problems.

Can we please use plain-old WAVs or AIFFs for mixing, though? Pretty please? Passing around low-bitrate MP3s for tracking is fine... good, even. But you really can't mix with them.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:24 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

uncleozzy, that sounds good to me!
posted by snsranch at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2008

Yeah, mp3s for chaining, but keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.
posted by cortex at 7:37 AM on May 1, 2008

How about: Everyone emails me your straight-up WAV when you're done. (I've gotten WAVs in my gmail before, so I'm pretty sure I can handle it, especially since I'll only be getting one at a time.)

I'll archive it, make a 128kb MP3 copy, and send that to the next person.

Contributors don't need to worry about getting sent a huge file, and I'll have a collection of all of the WAVs in one place.

When we're done, we can figure out where to host the files, and I can either email them or FTP them or even send out physical CDs with the WAVs on them.

I'm going to go watch Lost now
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 9:45 PM on May 1, 2008

cortex, you reminded me of that old favorite of mine, "Raw WAVs". They used to play it at the Grand Ole Opry evr'y Saturday night :

I remember when my daddy sat me down upon his knee
he said when you're swappin' files, you'd best use mp3
just keep it light, cause other files, you know they weigh a ton,
keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.
yes keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:17 PM on May 1, 2008

STATUS UPDATE~!

After a small setback I am back on track; the seed tracks have been sent out to the first two people and the game is officially afoot!

The only people who are currently "in the queue" are those who have sent me a MeFi Mail about this. If you have not, you can still do so -- I'll let new people join through the end of May.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:39 AM on May 7, 2008

Best news of the morning. Rock on, Karlos.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:40 AM on May 7, 2008

So... what's the progress looking like on this thing?
posted by uncleozzy at 8:26 AM on May 19, 2008

I would call the pace "deliberate."

I've got one completed submission and two people with current assignments.

I may increase the number of threads from 2 to 3 if I get too impatient; on the other hand, it's not like there's an actual deadline.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:50 AM on May 20, 2008

Ah, ever the diplomat. "Deliberate." Maybe if we increase rations, we can raise the pace to "moderate" without breaking a wagon wheel.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:44 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]

Two weeks and only one track to show for it? Does it really take that long to record a four minute track that'll be buried underneath a couple dozen others?
posted by bunnytricks at 10:43 AM on May 20, 2008

Is there any way to shock someone with a cattle prod over the internet? If so, try that.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2008