=Noise? Derail? Breaks the guidelines? May 22, 2008 11:43 AM Subscribe
Can we add a flag for trolling? Or is this covered under one of the existing flags?
The thing is, "troll" is a charged and overloaded term. If someone is being noisy, it's noise; if you think it's a derail, flag it as such. If they're breaking the guidelines, they're breaking the guidelines.
If a comment isn't doing any of those things—if you really don't think any apply—then we're basically talking about adding a new flag as an excuse to mark stuff you don't like. Send us a contact email, maybe, if you see a hard-to-quantify emergent issue with a specific user.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:52 AM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
If a comment isn't doing any of those things—if you really don't think any apply—then we're basically talking about adding a new flag as an excuse to mark stuff you don't like. Send us a contact email, maybe, if you see a hard-to-quantify emergent issue with a specific user.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:52 AM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh what you need a new flag just to protect your precious feelings from "trolls"? I guess that is fine if you are too sensitive to man up and have a conversation with the grown folks. Let me guess, you are a woman right?
Hold on. I've got to run. I am getting my baby circumcised and I have to drop the cat off for declawing on my way there.
Also fat people need to stop eating so much pie, Bush is great, accept Jesus or go to hell where the gays and those that believe in evolution live and something about black people.
posted by ND¢ at 12:06 PM on May 22, 2008 [34 favorites]
Hold on. I've got to run. I am getting my baby circumcised and I have to drop the cat off for declawing on my way there.
Also fat people need to stop eating so much pie, Bush is great, accept Jesus or go to hell where the gays and those that believe in evolution live and something about black people.
posted by ND¢ at 12:06 PM on May 22, 2008 [34 favorites]
As a point of example, it wouldn't be unreasonable to flag a non-ironic version of ND¢'s comment there as "offensive", either.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:08 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:08 PM on May 22, 2008
ND¢ - you're getting the little bugger vaccinated, aren't you?
posted by kbanas at 12:10 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by kbanas at 12:10 PM on May 22, 2008
Flagged as ND¢.
posted by Mister_A at 12:12 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 12:12 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
Oh, and another thing–we prefer to be called "Infrapontine Humanoid Caprivores," or even "Caprivore-Americans," as appropriate.
posted by Mister_A at 12:18 PM on May 22, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 12:18 PM on May 22, 2008 [5 favorites]
Say what you will about the tenants of National Socialism, dude, but at least it's an ethos.
posted by kbanas at 12:20 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by kbanas at 12:20 PM on May 22, 2008
ND¢ - you're getting the little bugger vaccinated, aren't you?
Be sure to use the stuff with the preservatives that they store in BPA plastic bottles.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:22 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Be sure to use the stuff with the preservatives that they store in BPA plastic bottles.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:22 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
But the billy goats gruff have a hard enough time selecting the right flag reason already with thier clumsy hooves. Adding another to the list will just add to the problem.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 12:24 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 12:24 PM on May 22, 2008
My great-grandma used to live in the National Socialsim building too, kbanas!
Always paid her rent on time; she was an excellent tenant.
posted by Dizzy at 12:26 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Always paid her rent on time; she was an excellent tenant.
posted by Dizzy at 12:26 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
As a point of example, it wouldn't be unreasonable to flag a non-ironic version of ND¢'s comment there as "offensive", either.
posted by cortex at 3:08 PM on May 22
Yeah, but what if we want to flag his ironic comment as 'ironic'? Or better yet, what if I want to flag it as 'sardonic'? Where the hell is our 'sardonic' flag?
The sardonic flag looks like the Jolly Roger, only with square-rimmed glasses and a wry smile.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:08 PM on May 22
Yeah, but what if we want to flag his ironic comment as 'ironic'? Or better yet, what if I want to flag it as 'sardonic'? Where the hell is our 'sardonic' flag?
The sardonic flag looks like the Jolly Roger, only with square-rimmed glasses and a wry smile.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [5 favorites]
we're basically talking about adding a new flag as an excuse to mark stuff you don't like
Yes, please!
posted by brain_drain at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008
Yes, please!
posted by brain_drain at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008
Aw, now I get what Dizzy was getting at.
Stupid words. I hate them all.
posted by kbanas at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Stupid words. I hate them all.
posted by kbanas at 12:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Even kumquat?
posted by brain_drain at 12:50 PM on May 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by brain_drain at 12:50 PM on May 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
When someone is obviously trolling, dropping a quick "Please don't feed the troll" can be pretty effective. Obviously, you want to make sure that you aren't calling comments that you just happen to disagree with trolling, but when it is clear that someone is trolling publicly ignoring them is probably going to have better long term effects than deletion.
posted by ssg at 12:55 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by ssg at 12:55 PM on May 22, 2008
I paid $5 to join MetaFilter in part because I heard it was a well-moderated site, and I figure part of that service is having moderators that can look at a multi-flagged post or comment and discern what the problem is, even if the flags aren't precisely worded to pin that problem down.
If a mod can't figure out what's wrong with a post/comment without a specific flag, it's probably not that problematic.
posted by Shepherd at 1:03 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
If a mod can't figure out what's wrong with a post/comment without a specific flag, it's probably not that problematic.
posted by Shepherd at 1:03 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
The "q-u" thing always pissed me off too, kb.
Q is such a NEEDY letter.
posted by Dizzy at 1:03 PM on May 22, 2008
Q is such a NEEDY letter.
posted by Dizzy at 1:03 PM on May 22, 2008
"Say what you will about the tenants of National Socialism, dude, but at least it's an ethos."
I always figured landlords were Nazis.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:24 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I always figured landlords were Nazis.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:24 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
for what it's worth, on those rare occasions when I flag a comment, I'm often hesitant to use the "Offensive" flag because, being concatenated as it is with the Racism and Sexism flags, I assume it's a catch-all for any sort of -ism (jingoism, ageism, etc...) that comes down to some form of prejudice or discrimination.
The end result is that, while I technically consider someone being an asshole to be offensive, I don't flag it as such because I'm worried that, if I did, then the mods would be less likely to pay attention to flags from me. Perhaps they'd consider such flags little more than boy-who-cried-wolf style attempts to paint someone as a racist when in fact I just feel offended by their general prickishness.
What I'm saying is I think the "offensive" flag seems more specific than perhaps it is, and that it might be nice to make it plainer that the offensive flag also applies to jerks.
posted by shmegegge at 1:26 PM on May 22, 2008
The end result is that, while I technically consider someone being an asshole to be offensive, I don't flag it as such because I'm worried that, if I did, then the mods would be less likely to pay attention to flags from me. Perhaps they'd consider such flags little more than boy-who-cried-wolf style attempts to paint someone as a racist when in fact I just feel offended by their general prickishness.
What I'm saying is I think the "offensive" flag seems more specific than perhaps it is, and that it might be nice to make it plainer that the offensive flag also applies to jerks.
posted by shmegegge at 1:26 PM on May 22, 2008
if, in fact, it does. if it doesn't, then I suppose we don't have any flag for jerks at all, and maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
posted by shmegegge at 1:27 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by shmegegge at 1:27 PM on May 22, 2008
The end result is that, while I technically consider someone being an asshole to be offensive, I don't flag it as such because I'm worried that, if I did, then the mods would be less likely to pay attention to flags from me.
If that's true, if that result is true, that would be disappointing, but it would not reflect poorly on you.
In the end, if you think a comment or post is offensive, you should flag it, and not worry about whether someone else interprets it in good or bad faith.
If you (in general) hold back from flagging because how someone on the other end may or may not interpret that act of flagging, that breaks the entire purpose of flagging. If the person on the other end assumes bad faith, it wouldn't matter much what you flagged to begin with, right or wrong.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:41 PM on May 22, 2008
If that's true, if that result is true, that would be disappointing, but it would not reflect poorly on you.
In the end, if you think a comment or post is offensive, you should flag it, and not worry about whether someone else interprets it in good or bad faith.
If you (in general) hold back from flagging because how someone on the other end may or may not interpret that act of flagging, that breaks the entire purpose of flagging. If the person on the other end assumes bad faith, it wouldn't matter much what you flagged to begin with, right or wrong.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:41 PM on May 22, 2008
If the person on the other end assumes bad faith, it wouldn't matter much what you flagged to begin with, right or wrong.
Well, I'm not avoiding flagging because I think bad faith will be assumed because I'm me. I'm avoiding it because I think bad faith could be interpreted if my understanding of the flag differs from that of the mods. So, generally, I try to address things that are important enough to me in the thread and take my lumps if they're coming. (otherwise I just ignore it) That way, there's no confusion as to what I'm trying to say.
this is also kind of why I don't like flags in the first place. I understand their utility, and that's more important, but on the whole I think they're kind of a bullshit tattle tale way of pointing at someone behind their back and saying "unclean!"
posted by shmegegge at 1:50 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, I'm not avoiding flagging because I think bad faith will be assumed because I'm me. I'm avoiding it because I think bad faith could be interpreted if my understanding of the flag differs from that of the mods. So, generally, I try to address things that are important enough to me in the thread and take my lumps if they're coming. (otherwise I just ignore it) That way, there's no confusion as to what I'm trying to say.
this is also kind of why I don't like flags in the first place. I understand their utility, and that's more important, but on the whole I think they're kind of a bullshit tattle tale way of pointing at someone behind their back and saying "unclean!"
posted by shmegegge at 1:50 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
We should only have two flags, good and bad. The mods have brains.
posted by sveskemus at 1:53 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by sveskemus at 1:53 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
When in doubt, flag as "other."
posted by Dave Faris at 1:55 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Dave Faris at 1:55 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Trading out "obnoxious" for "offensive" in the text of the offensive/sexism/racism flag might meet shmegegges concerns.
posted by Artw at 1:57 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Artw at 1:57 PM on May 22, 2008
Is it possible to have a page setup to show which posts and comments I flagged, and whether or not anything was eventually done about it? Because I'd like statistical proof that my flags are in fact more effective that your average poster at guiding moderation on this site. Quite frankly, I've always known that my opinion counted more than everyone elses; I would just like to see explicit proof of this.
I'd also like every thread to have a topless scene. Sometimes the comments here are a bit inane; some soft core porn would definitely liven things up.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:01 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd also like every thread to have a topless scene. Sometimes the comments here are a bit inane; some soft core porn would definitely liven things up.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:01 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
A couple times a day I find myself trying to apply the asshole flag.
posted by dirtdirt at 2:05 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by dirtdirt at 2:05 PM on May 22, 2008
At least there is one thing that we can all agree on: Iraq deserved to be invaded; it was the best thing America has ever done.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:17 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 2:17 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I believe I speak for all of us when I say homosexuality is a sin and must be prayed out HARD.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:20 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Krrrlson at 2:20 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
When someone is obviously trolling, dropping a quick "Please don't feed the troll" can be pretty effective.
Really? Because I'm not sure I've ever seen it work around here. People love feeding the troll. He does this cute little happy dance after you toss him the troll food.
posted by languagehat at 2:22 PM on May 22, 2008
Really? Because I'm not sure I've ever seen it work around here. People love feeding the troll. He does this cute little happy dance after you toss him the troll food.
posted by languagehat at 2:22 PM on May 22, 2008
Don't feed the trolls.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:25 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:25 PM on May 22, 2008
If you flag it as a troll, 50% of users will eat their words and the other 50% will throw them out.
posted by acoutu at 2:28 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by acoutu at 2:28 PM on May 22, 2008
There's already a way to flag for trolling: You just click the little [+] symbol. Understandable that you missed it, maybe it should be merged in with the other flags.
posted by sfenders at 2:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by sfenders at 2:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
Really? Because I'm not sure I've ever seen it work around here. People love feeding the troll. He does this cute little happy dance after you toss him the troll food.
Plus, the "don't feed the troll" thing is just another way of feeding the troll.
posted by puke & cry at 2:32 PM on May 22, 2008
Plus, the "don't feed the troll" thing is just another way of feeding the troll.
posted by puke & cry at 2:32 PM on May 22, 2008
how about allowing users to selectively ignore other users?
posted by krautland at 2:41 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by krautland at 2:41 PM on May 22, 2008
also, "don't feed the troll" is a really great way to insult someone who isn't a troll that you simply disagree with.
posted by shmegegge at 2:43 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by shmegegge at 2:43 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Can we also have pennants flags for our favorite baseball teams?
posted by self at 2:46 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by self at 2:46 PM on May 22, 2008
Some more flags we need:
* Too right-wing
* M$ lover
* Religious nutjob
* Likes rich people
* SUV driver
* Drinks Starbucks coffee
* quonsar
posted by eyeballkid at 2:55 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
* Too right-wing
* M$ lover
* Religious nutjob
* Likes rich people
* SUV driver
* Drinks Starbucks coffee
* quonsar
posted by eyeballkid at 2:55 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
*flags eyeballkid's comment as "quonsar"*
posted by languagehat at 3:02 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by languagehat at 3:02 PM on May 22, 2008
* Spartacus
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:05 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:05 PM on May 22, 2008
Damn shmegegge, how could I miss that one?
posted by eyeballkid at 3:06 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by eyeballkid at 3:06 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't understand why we have "derail," "noise," and "breaks the guidelines."
Don't derails and noise both break the guidelines? And aren't derails a form of noise?
I'd happily trade "derail" for "obnoxious."
posted by ottereroticist at 3:27 PM on May 22, 2008
Don't derails and noise both break the guidelines? And aren't derails a form of noise?
I'd happily trade "derail" for "obnoxious."
posted by ottereroticist at 3:27 PM on May 22, 2008
I think this place could use a "Christ what an asshole" tag.
posted by Daddy-O at 3:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Daddy-O at 3:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think this place could use a "Christ what an asshole" tag.
Christ what an asshole!!!
posted by Daddy-O at 3:32 PM on May 22, 2008
Christ what an asshole!!!
posted by Daddy-O at 3:32 PM on May 22, 2008
This would be a better idea if the majority of people on metafilter actually understood what trolling was.
posted by seanyboy at 4:06 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by seanyboy at 4:06 PM on May 22, 2008
This would be a better idea if the majority of people on metafilter actually understood what trolling was.
You would make your point more effectively if you didn't mispell "trolling."
posted by dersins at 4:15 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
You would make your point more effectively if you didn't mispell "trolling."
posted by dersins at 4:15 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
This would be a better idea if the majority of people on metafilter actually understood what trolling was.
Flagged.
posted by maxwelton at 4:17 PM on May 22, 2008
Flagged.
posted by maxwelton at 4:17 PM on May 22, 2008
I think this place could use a "Christ what an asshole" tag
I would like the "Christ what an asshole" tag data fed into a database which runs some calculations against your number of comments and provides an "asshole rating" which displays alongside ones' username whenever posting/commenting.
posted by Deep Dish at 4:19 PM on May 22, 2008
I would like the "Christ what an asshole" tag data fed into a database which runs some calculations against your number of comments and provides an "asshole rating" which displays alongside ones' username whenever posting/commenting.
posted by Deep Dish at 4:19 PM on May 22, 2008
I dunno. I'm thinking we should have a strictly MeTa-based "overly-masturbatory" flag.
I'd sure as hell use it right about now.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2008
I'd sure as hell use it right about now.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2008
I think there are some of us whose number would completely throw off the formatting of the site. Well... I guess you could use scientific notation.
posted by Dave Faris at 4:22 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 4:22 PM on May 22, 2008
I just want to know if Jess, Cortex et al do some kind of formal taking-down of the flags at the end of each day. Do they go into a special chest? Are they folded a certain way?
*presses nose to glass*
posted by everichon at 4:53 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
*presses nose to glass*
posted by everichon at 4:53 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
A couple times a day I find myself trying to apply the asshole flag.
You need to grease it up first.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:05 PM on May 22, 2008 [4 favorites]
You need to grease it up first.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:05 PM on May 22, 2008 [4 favorites]
I just want to know if Jess, Cortex et al do some kind of formal taking-down of the flags at the end of each day. Do they go into a special chest? Are they folded a certain way?Fold the flag in half "fantastic"-wise twice. If done by two, then the "noise" field should be facing the bottom on the first fold. Fold up a triangle, starting at the "derail" end, and repeat until only the end of "breaks the guidelines" is exposed. Then fold down the square into a triangle and tuck inside "other".
posted by scrump at 5:28 PM on May 22, 2008
Mispell was a joke, right? The humor here is so suptle.
posted by mimo at 5:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by mimo at 5:32 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Personally I'm holding out for the "buzzkill" flag.
posted by phearlez at 5:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by phearlez at 5:49 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
This would be a better idea if the majority of people on metafilter actually understood what trolling was.
Well, I'm using it in the sense of "just trying to rile people up and piss them off by pushing hot buttons", and I have added "don't feed" comments where I would consider flagging. I guess I'm not clear if that constitutes Derail or Noise; or whether there's any need to flag because the comment makes the point sufficiently.
To be direct, it's just one new user (BrooklynCouch) who seems pretty consistently to be taking positions designed to piss off MeFites and provoke predictable arguments, rather than sincerely making a point. I'm think I'm pretty aware of the danger of mistaking something I disagree with for trolling; this is the first time I've felt this was going on clearly in the few months I've been here. Suggesting drilling for oil in ANWR, for example, or saying that "atheism reflects a poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil."
Not that these are inappropriate comments per se, but in the context of Metafilter in general and those posts in particular, I sense that they are designed to provoke a specific reaction.
posted by msalt at 6:08 PM on May 22, 2008
Well, I'm using it in the sense of "just trying to rile people up and piss them off by pushing hot buttons", and I have added "don't feed" comments where I would consider flagging. I guess I'm not clear if that constitutes Derail or Noise; or whether there's any need to flag because the comment makes the point sufficiently.
To be direct, it's just one new user (BrooklynCouch) who seems pretty consistently to be taking positions designed to piss off MeFites and provoke predictable arguments, rather than sincerely making a point. I'm think I'm pretty aware of the danger of mistaking something I disagree with for trolling; this is the first time I've felt this was going on clearly in the few months I've been here. Suggesting drilling for oil in ANWR, for example, or saying that "atheism reflects a poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil."
Not that these are inappropriate comments per se, but in the context of Metafilter in general and those posts in particular, I sense that they are designed to provoke a specific reaction.
posted by msalt at 6:08 PM on May 22, 2008
By the way, what do the mods do with "Fantastic Comment" flags?
posted by msalt at 6:10 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by msalt at 6:10 PM on May 22, 2008
By the way, what do the mods do with "Fantastic Comment" flags?
sew them into bikinis which they wear while doing a jaunty dance.
posted by jonmc at 6:21 PM on May 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
sew them into bikinis which they wear while doing a jaunty dance.
posted by jonmc at 6:21 PM on May 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
rub them all over their oiled up bodies.
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 6:28 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 6:28 PM on May 22, 2008
msalt - that worked pretty well as well - I removed it from activity, but as far as I know that arguments still going. Still, I guess there was a certain kind of inevitability to it given the subject of the FPP.
posted by Artw at 6:35 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by Artw at 6:35 PM on May 22, 2008
I just though of something: when Madonna becomes menopausal, I predict she'll do an album called Hot Flash.
posted by jonmc at 6:55 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by jonmc at 6:55 PM on May 22, 2008
Yeah, maybe I'm still just an idealistic newbie, thinking we can do better and avoid these sandtraps. There are moments in discussions I love, where people chime in with comments like "Well, then." that mark obnoxious behavior and often squelch it with subtly and grace.
posted by msalt at 6:58 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by msalt at 6:58 PM on May 22, 2008
Not that these are inappropriate comments per se, but in the context of Metafilter in general and those posts in particular, I sense that they are designed to provoke a specific reaction.
It's really hard to take that as a good faith argument msalt, especial since it starts by assuming bad faith on brooklyncouch's part. That is, it's hard for me to believe that you're not conflating disliking his views with assuming he's trolling.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:13 PM on May 22, 2008
It's really hard to take that as a good faith argument msalt, especial since it starts by assuming bad faith on brooklyncouch's part. That is, it's hard for me to believe that you're not conflating disliking his views with assuming he's trolling.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:13 PM on May 22, 2008
OH!
INDECENT!
This thread's been useful, after all!
posted by dirigibleman at 7:25 PM on May 22, 2008
INDECENT!
This thread's been useful, after all!
posted by dirigibleman at 7:25 PM on May 22, 2008
There are basically three sorts of flags
- fantastic = mods please sidebar
- breaks the guidelines/display error/offensive = mods please look at quickly
- noise/derail/double = mods please look at with normal speed (unless there are a ton of doubles)
Really it should just be +/0/- but this evolved organically. All the rest is just details. We don't need a troll flag.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:35 PM on May 22, 2008
- fantastic = mods please sidebar
- breaks the guidelines/display error/offensive = mods please look at quickly
- noise/derail/double = mods please look at with normal speed (unless there are a ton of doubles)
Really it should just be +/0/- but this evolved organically. All the rest is just details. We don't need a troll flag.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:35 PM on May 22, 2008
Thanks, jessamyn. V. helpful.
It's really hard to take that as a good faith argument msalt, especial since it starts by assuming bad faith on brooklyncouch's part. That is, it's hard for me to believe that you're not conflating disliking his views with assuming he's trolling.
I understand, totally, and wouldn't say anything of this out loud if I wasn't pretty sure. I don't know how to establish that I'm not doing that with certainty; obviously it's subjective. I'm a newbie here but I've been in online discussions since 1991 (on the WELL); I may be projecting unfairly from past experience but it's a gut feeling based on experience.
If I were to analyze it, it would be the combination of saying the perfectly inflammatory thing, not really defending his points after throwing the bombs, and certain phrases like "poverty of thought" which seem calculated to irritate.
posted by msalt at 8:16 PM on May 22, 2008
It's really hard to take that as a good faith argument msalt, especial since it starts by assuming bad faith on brooklyncouch's part. That is, it's hard for me to believe that you're not conflating disliking his views with assuming he's trolling.
I understand, totally, and wouldn't say anything of this out loud if I wasn't pretty sure. I don't know how to establish that I'm not doing that with certainty; obviously it's subjective. I'm a newbie here but I've been in online discussions since 1991 (on the WELL); I may be projecting unfairly from past experience but it's a gut feeling based on experience.
If I were to analyze it, it would be the combination of saying the perfectly inflammatory thing, not really defending his points after throwing the bombs, and certain phrases like "poverty of thought" which seem calculated to irritate.
posted by msalt at 8:16 PM on May 22, 2008
Can we have a flag that says "Please close this and get back to your Scrabulous, mods, because I have some killer letters and want to play?"
Also, can y'all just cause less trouble? Sheesh. You're distracting them from the very important Facebook games they're playing.
posted by klangklangston at 8:46 PM on May 22, 2008
Also, can y'all just cause less trouble? Sheesh. You're distracting them from the very important Facebook games they're playing.
posted by klangklangston at 8:46 PM on May 22, 2008
yes, distract the mods with Scrabulous, and we can get on with lynching brooklyncouch, now that msalt has stopped pussyfooting around.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:51 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:51 PM on May 22, 2008
I spy with my little eye something beginning.
posted by flabdablet at 9:15 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by flabdablet at 9:15 PM on May 22, 2008
hm, let me see, let me see...
S-N-A-O-R-U-Q
nope, can't make anything useful out of that. i'll have to pass this turn.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:22 PM on May 22, 2008
S-N-A-O-R-U-Q
nope, can't make anything useful out of that. i'll have to pass this turn.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:22 PM on May 22, 2008
yeh, then i could flip it upside-down to make a "b".
still wouldn't help much...best i can come up with is "suborn" - only six letters, leaving me with an unused "a".
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:40 PM on May 22, 2008
still wouldn't help much...best i can come up with is "suborn" - only six letters, leaving me with an unused "a".
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:40 PM on May 22, 2008
Isn't this whole site a troll, when it comes down to it?
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:40 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:40 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
it's as if he was summoned!
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:54 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:54 PM on May 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
"atheism reflects a poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil."
I don't see why anyone would consider that a troll against atheists. Let's break it down:
1) "atheism reflects" - Okay - What else reflects? A mirror. Atheism = a mirror. Seems about right. No argument here.
2) Who's observing the mirror and passing judgement? That would be BrooklynCouch.
3) What does one usually see in a mirror? That's right: One's own reflection.
4) What did BrooklynCouch see reflected in atheism? "a poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil"
5) Whose poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil was BrooklynCouch witnessing? Caution: Trolls in mirror may be closer than they appear.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:56 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
I don't see why anyone would consider that a troll against atheists. Let's break it down:
1) "atheism reflects" - Okay - What else reflects? A mirror. Atheism = a mirror. Seems about right. No argument here.
2) Who's observing the mirror and passing judgement? That would be BrooklynCouch.
3) What does one usually see in a mirror? That's right: One's own reflection.
4) What did BrooklynCouch see reflected in atheism? "a poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil"
5) Whose poverty of thought, and a lack of appreciation of the universe, including of love and evil was BrooklynCouch witnessing? Caution: Trolls in mirror may be closer than they appear.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:56 PM on May 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
how about allowing users to selectively ignore other users?
Oh! OOOHHHH!!!!
And how about we make a hierarchy of subjects into which we'd divide MetaFiler posts! And we could transmit them from server to server with NNTP!!! And instead of a browser we could read MetaFilter with 'rn'!!!!!!
And then September would come...The September That Never Ended.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 PM on May 22, 2008
Oh! OOOHHHH!!!!
And how about we make a hierarchy of subjects into which we'd divide MetaFiler posts! And we could transmit them from server to server with NNTP!!! And instead of a browser we could read MetaFilter with 'rn'!!!!!!
And then September would come...The September That Never Ended.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 PM on May 22, 2008
Quorans! Once again, the Islam-bashing rears its ugly head. I should have known.
posted by msalt at 11:06 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by msalt at 11:06 PM on May 22, 2008
On the bright side, you get 50 bonus points for using all your letters.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:32 PM on May 22, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:32 PM on May 22, 2008
metatalk is the best fun i've had in ages
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 1:44 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 1:44 AM on May 23, 2008
that doesn't say much for friday nights in the land of the long white yawn.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:56 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:56 AM on May 23, 2008
Squaro, keeping the N so I can spell "ninja" next time.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:28 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:28 AM on May 23, 2008
I think we need a flag for "I don't like this".
This is a good idea, but only if no one but the flagger could see it, and if that fact was never revealed.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:59 AM on May 23, 2008
This is a good idea, but only if no one but the flagger could see it, and if that fact was never revealed.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:59 AM on May 23, 2008
Do ya think Emily Gould sits on a BrooklynCouch? Just askin'...
posted by fixedgear at 4:14 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by fixedgear at 4:14 AM on May 23, 2008
Do ya think fixedgear sits on a BrooklynCouch? Just askin'...
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:41 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:41 AM on May 23, 2008
Only for an hourly fee.
posted by BrooklynCouch at 6:19 AM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by BrooklynCouch at 6:19 AM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
"All right all right, your turn."
Thanks. I lied about the good letters. Your turn.
(Also, the best words I could come up with out of Ubu's jumbled mass were Sonar and Qua. No Quran—while Bible is an accepted word, none of the variations of Koran that I could think of were accepted by the scrabble dictionary).
posted by klangklangston at 8:45 AM on May 23, 2008
Thanks. I lied about the good letters. Your turn.
(Also, the best words I could come up with out of Ubu's jumbled mass were Sonar and Qua. No Quran—while Bible is an accepted word, none of the variations of Koran that I could think of were accepted by the scrabble dictionary).
posted by klangklangston at 8:45 AM on May 23, 2008
$175/hour.
posted by BrooklynCouch at 9:51 AM on May 23, 2008
posted by BrooklynCouch at 9:51 AM on May 23, 2008
S-N-A-O-R-U-Q
QUOAN. To QUOAN something. You need a medical dictionary.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:15 PM on May 23, 2008
QUOAN. To QUOAN something. You need a medical dictionary.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:15 PM on May 23, 2008
(It's not Bible that is an accepted Scrabble word, but bible.)
posted by Sys Rq at 1:17 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by Sys Rq at 1:17 PM on May 23, 2008
This is one funny place!
posted by BrooklynCouch at 2:18 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by BrooklynCouch at 2:18 PM on May 23, 2008
Actually, it's BIBLE.
posted by klangklangston at 2:23 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 2:23 PM on May 23, 2008
This is why you shouldn't play games with holy books. I mean, the Bible is only worth nine points!
posted by never used baby shoes at 3:11 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by never used baby shoes at 3:11 PM on May 23, 2008
BrooklynCouch has been reminding me a bit of ParisParamus. Not a dead ringer, but there's something familiar about his ways.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:28 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by five fresh fish at 5:28 PM on May 23, 2008
that doesn't say much for friday nights in the land of the long white yawn.
i was waiting for my date to arrive you dick :P typical aussie >:D
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 5:45 PM on May 23, 2008
i was waiting for my date to arrive you dick :P typical aussie >:D
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 5:45 PM on May 23, 2008
(and apart from two beers after work, i spent the rest of friday night at home!)
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:01 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:01 PM on May 23, 2008
Assuming that the web is public, and thus this email link can be public: confirmation?
My guess is that the LGF link this week brought him back to us. Yet another reason LGF should never, ever be linked on MeFi.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:55 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]
My guess is that the LGF link this week brought him back to us. Yet another reason LGF should never, ever be linked on MeFi.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:55 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]
My gut instincts and someone else's web savvy (speak up if you want, [redacted]).
The admins told him he was welcome to rejoin under a new name; that offer has been there since the perma-banning, afaik.
Can't say as I'm all that impressed with his return. I don't know if he's got other aliases in use, but this BC alias is repugnant. I hope it's soon banned. What a useless shitstain.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
The admins told him he was welcome to rejoin under a new name; that offer has been there since the perma-banning, afaik.
Can't say as I'm all that impressed with his return. I don't know if he's got other aliases in use, but this BC alias is repugnant. I hope it's soon banned. What a useless shitstain.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
(and apart from two beers after work, i spent the rest of friday night at home!)
Metatalk: Better than outside :)
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 9:26 PM on May 23, 2008
Metatalk: Better than outside :)
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 9:26 PM on May 23, 2008
BrooklynCouch has been reminding me a bit of ParisParamus. Not a dead ringer, but there's something familiar about his ways.
Either way, I think it's a little earlier to have a lynching. Can't the mob wait until he actually does something wrong?
posted by timeistight at 9:42 PM on May 23, 2008
Either way, I think it's a little earlier to have a lynching. Can't the mob wait until he actually does something wrong?
posted by timeistight at 9:42 PM on May 23, 2008
Most of BCs comments are pretty innocuous so far. It's was a little much for me to say anything about banning.
I suppose I should have done everyone a favour and kept my mouth shut. Identifying BC as PP is akin to character assassination, and that isn't fair to him this early in his new alias.
On the other hand, it was through his behaviour I ended up with juju feelings. I didn't even look at his profile and mass-read his couple dozen comments until after the email that confirmed my suspicions.
So, meh. In the end, I don't give a shit one way or the other, so long as he isn't stupidly disruptive to the community.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 PM on May 23, 2008
I suppose I should have done everyone a favour and kept my mouth shut. Identifying BC as PP is akin to character assassination, and that isn't fair to him this early in his new alias.
On the other hand, it was through his behaviour I ended up with juju feelings. I didn't even look at his profile and mass-read his couple dozen comments until after the email that confirmed my suspicions.
So, meh. In the end, I don't give a shit one way or the other, so long as he isn't stupidly disruptive to the community.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 PM on May 23, 2008
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, was a duck under a previous username, shows every intention of continuing duck like behavior...
posted by Artw at 10:57 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by Artw at 10:57 PM on May 23, 2008
I suppose I should have done everyone a favour and kept my mouth shut.
I think you were right to identify him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another chance. If he can be a reasonable, responsible MeFi member, then we should welcome him back. But if he can't resist trolling, then he should be banned again. Since you identified him, people will be paying attention. Now it's up to him.
posted by homunculus at 11:31 PM on May 23, 2008
I think you were right to identify him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another chance. If he can be a reasonable, responsible MeFi member, then we should welcome him back. But if he can't resist trolling, then he should be banned again. Since you identified him, people will be paying attention. Now it's up to him.
posted by homunculus at 11:31 PM on May 23, 2008
I oppose gay marriage as flying in the face of four or five thousand years of civilization and religion.
He's trolling.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:17 AM on May 24, 2008
He's trolling.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:17 AM on May 24, 2008
But how do those active in this community define "stupidly destructive to the community", five fresh fish? Msalt, who is fairly new, yet here long enough to get the Metafilter Community Vibe, went so far as to suggest we need a new flag for basically calling out responding members who don't subscribe to the same Vibe as the majority here. Fortunately Cortex recognized that, and commented early on in this thread. That was some nice reffing there, Cortex.
I really like this community. The FPP's are diverse. Some are fresh and current. Some are arcane. They nearly ALL work to make MetaFilter the wonderful space that it is online. AskMe's are extraordinary in their ability to help people with issues that are wide ranging. This is my favorite, come-to spot for diversity of content. There are, however, some issues, that I for one think should be more closely examined. I know I am not the first person to suggest this, but as a community, there is extremely low tolerance for diverse opinions on political and religious issues. Yeah I know there are some additional hot potatoes here, but let's focus on the big ones. There are some extremely bright and well-informed people here who make best case arguments for their points of view on the two hottest potatoes. I don't personally share the same view as the majority of commenters here, but I surely appreciate the passion of the stated views. I like to listen and to learn how"best thinkers" think, even and most particularly when I don't agree with them. And YES, it is entirely possible to call someone a "best thinker" even though you don't agree....because it makes you think. THINK is the operative word.
I am no "best thinker" OR "best speaker" for my current political or religious thinking, no matter how passionate I feel on these subjects. I would venture to guess that most here would say the same. So why is it then, that we fall so easily, and even lock-step, behind those who care to speak for us?
posted by LiveLurker at 1:03 AM on May 24, 2008
I really like this community. The FPP's are diverse. Some are fresh and current. Some are arcane. They nearly ALL work to make MetaFilter the wonderful space that it is online. AskMe's are extraordinary in their ability to help people with issues that are wide ranging. This is my favorite, come-to spot for diversity of content. There are, however, some issues, that I for one think should be more closely examined. I know I am not the first person to suggest this, but as a community, there is extremely low tolerance for diverse opinions on political and religious issues. Yeah I know there are some additional hot potatoes here, but let's focus on the big ones. There are some extremely bright and well-informed people here who make best case arguments for their points of view on the two hottest potatoes. I don't personally share the same view as the majority of commenters here, but I surely appreciate the passion of the stated views. I like to listen and to learn how"best thinkers" think, even and most particularly when I don't agree with them. And YES, it is entirely possible to call someone a "best thinker" even though you don't agree....because it makes you think. THINK is the operative word.
I am no "best thinker" OR "best speaker" for my current political or religious thinking, no matter how passionate I feel on these subjects. I would venture to guess that most here would say the same. So why is it then, that we fall so easily, and even lock-step, behind those who care to speak for us?
posted by LiveLurker at 1:03 AM on May 24, 2008
Identifying BC as PP is akin to character assassination, and that isn't fair to him this early in his new alias.
Given that PP has an almost uniquely long history on this site of threadshitting, trolling, and general disruption, I think it's unfair to the rest of us for him to be able to just get a clean slate and start over again. There are situations in which clean slates are plausible and even perhaps desirable. Dhoyt springs to mind. PP spent years trolling Metafilter, and has gone right back to it the instant he got the chance. There's a valid place for the Brand New Day. Giving trolls who contribute nothing and don't desire to contribute anything to the site a chance to start over at zero opprobrium seems to me to be a massively bad use of the Brand New Day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:24 AM on May 24, 2008
Given that PP has an almost uniquely long history on this site of threadshitting, trolling, and general disruption, I think it's unfair to the rest of us for him to be able to just get a clean slate and start over again. There are situations in which clean slates are plausible and even perhaps desirable. Dhoyt springs to mind. PP spent years trolling Metafilter, and has gone right back to it the instant he got the chance. There's a valid place for the Brand New Day. Giving trolls who contribute nothing and don't desire to contribute anything to the site a chance to start over at zero opprobrium seems to me to be a massively bad use of the Brand New Day.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:24 AM on May 24, 2008
OR, a bad use of the MetaFilter "brand", Pope Guilty?
Perfect nic, by the way!;)
posted by LiveLurker at 2:26 AM on May 24, 2008
Perfect nic, by the way!;)
posted by LiveLurker at 2:26 AM on May 24, 2008
Didn't ParisParamus become SecaucusSeattle or something later?
posted by fixedgear at 8:01 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by fixedgear at 8:01 AM on May 24, 2008
Didn't ParisParamus become SecaucusSeattle or something later?
nah, FreedomCouch.
mmm...couch...
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:25 AM on May 24, 2008
nah, FreedomCouch.
mmm...couch...
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:25 AM on May 24, 2008
I sent FFF that link, as it has been sent to me by some previous (dunno if he wants outed) member. I can take no credit for clever googling.
But I'd argue that he's been rather innocuous so far, at least what I've seen (though I could just be being smug), and I'd argue that though you disagree with him, Blazecock, you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while. And frankly, Pope Guilty, you're not someone who deals with disagreement well either.
posted by klangklangston at 10:29 AM on May 24, 2008
But I'd argue that he's been rather innocuous so far, at least what I've seen (though I could just be being smug), and I'd argue that though you disagree with him, Blazecock, you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while. And frankly, Pope Guilty, you're not someone who deals with disagreement well either.
posted by klangklangston at 10:29 AM on May 24, 2008
benefit of the doubt
Well, I have no idea who or what ParisParasmus is, other in the reflected horror of the comments here. I've been here 6 months or so, not shy to mix it up with folks, not rarely struck by idiocy, but BrooklynCouch immediately leapt out at me as a troll, and no one else has. FWIW.
posted by msalt at 10:52 AM on May 24, 2008
Well, I have no idea who or what ParisParasmus is, other in the reflected horror of the comments here. I've been here 6 months or so, not shy to mix it up with folks, not rarely struck by idiocy, but BrooklynCouch immediately leapt out at me as a troll, and no one else has. FWIW.
posted by msalt at 10:52 AM on May 24, 2008
I oppose gay marriage as flying in the face of four or five thousand years of civilization and religion.He's trolling.
That sentence is perfectly innocuous in and of itself. Any of our respected members could say that and it wouldn't result in accusations of trolling.
Mind, at the same time they wouldn't dump that in a thread and then run away from the response. That's where the "threadshitting" part of his behaviour comes in: he can't and doesn't present a reasoned explanation for his position.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:10 PM on May 24, 2008
There are, however, some issues, that I for one think should be more closely examined. I know I am not the first person to suggest this, but as a community, there is extremely low tolerance for diverse opinions on political and religious issues.
There is extremely low tolerance for opinions that express a desire to prevent others from having equality and peronal freedom, and opinions that are contrary to established fact. Do not mistake it for something else.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:16 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
There is extremely low tolerance for opinions that express a desire to prevent others from having equality and peronal freedom, and opinions that are contrary to established fact. Do not mistake it for something else.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:16 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
There is extremely low tolerance for opinions that express a desire to prevent others from having equality and peronal freedom, and opinions that are contrary to established fact.
While this is true, it is also true that a number of people have difficulty distinguishing opinions that express a desire to prevent others from having equality and peronal freedom and opinions that are contrary to established fact from opinions they personally find distasteful, and therefore they sweep them all under the same carpet and jump up and down on it.
posted by languagehat at 1:33 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
While this is true, it is also true that a number of people have difficulty distinguishing opinions that express a desire to prevent others from having equality and peronal freedom and opinions that are contrary to established fact from opinions they personally find distasteful, and therefore they sweep them all under the same carpet and jump up and down on it.
posted by languagehat at 1:33 PM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
As a data point, I engaged MetaMan once and found him markedly less eloquent than PP. YMMV.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:44 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:44 PM on May 24, 2008
I hope that doesn't mean you were engaged to MetaMan. Because I oppose gay marriage as flying in the face of four or five thousand years of civilization and religion.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:06 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:06 PM on May 24, 2008
Because I oppose gay marriage as flying in the face of four or five thousand years of civilization and religion.
And when I say 'flying in the face', I mean flying in the face like a money shot in a porn video. In which the protagonist is a Roman Catholic priest, and his object of desire is a hot, muscular young choirboy who was just caught beating off while reading Jack Chick tracts and therefore needs to be taught a strong lesson about theology.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:29 PM on May 24, 2008
And when I say 'flying in the face', I mean flying in the face like a money shot in a porn video. In which the protagonist is a Roman Catholic priest, and his object of desire is a hot, muscular young choirboy who was just caught beating off while reading Jack Chick tracts and therefore needs to be taught a strong lesson about theology.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:29 PM on May 24, 2008
That young choirboy needs a nice set of pearl rosary beads.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:15 AM on May 25, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:15 AM on May 25, 2008
We don't need a new flag. We need a new hammer. The Trollhammaren.
posted by Sailormom at 8:05 AM on May 25, 2008
posted by Sailormom at 8:05 AM on May 25, 2008
MetaMan is about 28% ParisParamus. I'm about 5%, but only when I don't get enough sleep.
posted by msalt at 8:52 PM on May 26, 2008
posted by msalt at 8:52 PM on May 26, 2008
Oh well, so much for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by homunculus at 11:24 PM on May 27, 2008
posted by homunculus at 11:24 PM on May 27, 2008
Why give him the benefit of the doubt? you know he's going to do it. It's not like theres a recorded instance of people giving a known troll teh benefit of the doubt ANYWHERE and it working out well.
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on May 28, 2008
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on May 28, 2008
Because I believe in second chances. I'm not a hardened cynic like you!
Can't we all just get along?
*weeps*
posted by homunculus at 1:49 PM on May 28, 2008
Can't we all just get along?
*weeps*
posted by homunculus at 1:49 PM on May 28, 2008
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posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:45 AM on May 22, 2008 [4 favorites]