9/11 was an inside job August 9, 2008 9:56 AM Subscribe
"Submitting a link is akin to writing a little paper for school."
"I just went to MetaFilter and the top link is "How many goats are you worth?". Is that more intellectual than the entries on Reddit?"
"I hate, hate, hate it when they put multiple links in single words."
reddit discovers Metafilter.
"I just went to MetaFilter and the top link is "How many goats are you worth?". Is that more intellectual than the entries on Reddit?"
"I hate, hate, hate it when they put multiple links in single words."
reddit discovers Metafilter.
Quick someone go and link this thread at Reddit so the internet explodes.
posted by LarryC at 10:22 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by LarryC at 10:22 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
"i'd pay to keep this site free of any bull shit"
posted by porn in the woods at 10:26 AM on August 9, 2008
posted by porn in the woods at 10:26 AM on August 9, 2008
"I hate, hate, hate it when they put multiple links in single words."
They have a point there.
This is the blogpost that was linked on Reddit: Why Digg and Reddit are Doomed (and Metafilter Isn’t)
Also, Digg is a lot more popular than Reddit or MetaFilter combined. And MetaFilter is considerably more popular than Reddit.
posted by Kattullus at 10:30 AM on August 9, 2008
They have a point there.
This is the blogpost that was linked on Reddit: Why Digg and Reddit are Doomed (and Metafilter Isn’t)
Also, Digg is a lot more popular than Reddit or MetaFilter combined. And MetaFilter is considerably more popular than Reddit.
posted by Kattullus at 10:30 AM on August 9, 2008
I'm actually quite surprised that the discussion in that Reddit thread is as mature and coherent as it is. I've always equated Reddit with Digg and never really checked it out. And we all know the discussion on Digg is just one step above YouTube comments.
posted by sveskemus at 10:30 AM on August 9, 2008
posted by sveskemus at 10:30 AM on August 9, 2008
But the colours! My eyes!!!!
You get the option of switching to a plain theme after you register. Had I known this beforehand, I would have de-lurked there long ago.
Did not know that, and I've been lurking there for a while. I'm actually going to register an account right now, based on this newfound knowledge. Sweet.
Cha-ching!!
posted by sveskemus at 10:36 AM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
You get the option of switching to a plain theme after you register. Had I known this beforehand, I would have de-lurked there long ago.
Did not know that, and I've been lurking there for a while. I'm actually going to register an account right now, based on this newfound knowledge. Sweet.
Cha-ching!!
posted by sveskemus at 10:36 AM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
"Median age may be too high?"
I think that's the first time I've ever read that on the internet. Some quick googling with assorted variations seems to confirm it.
"I love metafilter, but the volume of links is so low."
A proponent of the firehose approach to quality.
"If Metafilter gets as popular as Reddit or Digg, it too will be ruined. There's a critical mass, and once you pass it, the noise starts to overcome the signal, and you're stuck with whatever the Metafilter equivalent of "Vote up if" and other random crap that accumulates here. The only good social news sites are the ones that are just on the verge of becoming popular."
This at least is true, this place basically jumped the shark at 16157.
What I can't believe is they are ragging on the colour scheme, though I guess it's to be expected when their site is black on white. How do they stay up 3 hours past bedtime reading the site without their eyes melting?
posted by Mitheral at 10:42 AM on August 9, 2008
I think that's the first time I've ever read that on the internet. Some quick googling with assorted variations seems to confirm it.
"I love metafilter, but the volume of links is so low."
A proponent of the firehose approach to quality.
"If Metafilter gets as popular as Reddit or Digg, it too will be ruined. There's a critical mass, and once you pass it, the noise starts to overcome the signal, and you're stuck with whatever the Metafilter equivalent of "Vote up if" and other random crap that accumulates here. The only good social news sites are the ones that are just on the verge of becoming popular."
This at least is true, this place basically jumped the shark at 16157.
What I can't believe is they are ragging on the colour scheme, though I guess it's to be expected when their site is black on white. How do they stay up 3 hours past bedtime reading the site without their eyes melting?
posted by Mitheral at 10:42 AM on August 9, 2008
>"Median age may be too high?"
>>I think that's the first time I've ever read that on the internet. Some quick googling with assorted variations seems to confirm it.
As the median age for humans in general gets higher and higher, I expect this will be less of an issue. As long as we don't succumb to rickets, gout, etc., I foresee a day when there will be so many of us ancient fuckers that we can more or less bulldoze those damn kids off our virtual lawn.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:47 AM on August 9, 2008 [8 favorites]
>>I think that's the first time I've ever read that on the internet. Some quick googling with assorted variations seems to confirm it.
As the median age for humans in general gets higher and higher, I expect this will be less of an issue. As long as we don't succumb to rickets, gout, etc., I foresee a day when there will be so many of us ancient fuckers that we can more or less bulldoze those damn kids off our virtual lawn.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:47 AM on August 9, 2008 [8 favorites]
Metafiler: a good site, but mefites are kinda whiny in my experience...
Metafilter: I agree, bananahead
Metafilter: I think cortex is also a mod.
It writes itself!
posted by blue_beetle at 10:48 AM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: I agree, bananahead
Metafilter: I think cortex is also a mod.
It writes itself!
posted by blue_beetle at 10:48 AM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
When I was a kid I didn't like the taste of beer but I got used to it because I liked the buzz. Now I love the stuff. It's the same thing with the MeFi colour scheme. I literally hated it until I started visiting every day (that was way before the plain theme). Now I kinda like it although I still prefer to use the plain theme at work.
posted by sveskemus at 10:49 AM on August 9, 2008
posted by sveskemus at 10:49 AM on August 9, 2008
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
posted by orthogonality at 11:18 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by orthogonality at 11:18 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Did not know that, and I've been lurking there for a while. I'm actually going to register an account right now, based on this newfound knowledge. Sweet.
Heh. I bet there's thousands like him/her out there. The plain theme really is one of the main benefits of membership.
posted by jack_mo at 11:28 AM on August 9, 2008
Heh. I bet there's thousands like him/her out there. The plain theme really is one of the main benefits of membership.
posted by jack_mo at 11:28 AM on August 9, 2008
Whoa. I understand the Internet is supposed to be all connected and stuff, but I never realized that Redditors can actually read what we say, and talk about us. I mean there's Reddit, and there's Metafilter, and never the twain shall meet, like. This is like finding out that the guy at the gas station and the girl in accounting are siblings or something.
Worlds collide Jerry, worlds collide!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:42 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Worlds collide Jerry, worlds collide!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:42 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: they can actually read what we say
posted by netbros at 11:48 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by netbros at 11:48 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
what's reddit?
seriously, i'd never been to that site before i clicked the link in this thread. but then, i'm probably older than the median age of this site.
posted by msconduct at 11:49 AM on August 9, 2008
seriously, i'd never been to that site before i clicked the link in this thread. but then, i'm probably older than the median age of this site.
posted by msconduct at 11:49 AM on August 9, 2008
and i should probably add that i'm not an internidiot. i can't remember how or why or when i first clicked in here--i suspect i saw it listed on projectcool back in the day?--but this site has it hands down over any other 'best of the web' site i've ever tried. except for projectcool. which is dead.
posted by msconduct at 11:53 AM on August 9, 2008
posted by msconduct at 11:53 AM on August 9, 2008
The reason Digg is more popular than Metafilter is Digg's professional white background.
posted by Justinian at 12:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [11 favorites]
"Median age may be too high?"That's exactly why I like MeFi so much. It feels like this place is full of grown-ups.
posted by JDHarper at 12:11 PM on August 9, 2008 [16 favorites]
I check reddit throughout the day because I want something quick (since I'm at work) and fun/interesting (see man hit in crotch). I go to MeFi if I have more time on my hands and want to dig into something more intellectual.
I wonder how this person would respond to an an in-depth MeFi post analyzing crotch hits throughout the ages.
I'd read it, that's for sure.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 12:24 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I wonder how this person would respond to an an in-depth MeFi post analyzing crotch hits throughout the ages.
I'd read it, that's for sure.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 12:24 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter discovers that Reddit has discovered MetaFilter.
posted by Sailormom at 12:45 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Sailormom at 12:45 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
The converse, Metafilter discovers Reddit, is obviously true. I usually peruse the links to Riddit, but rarely read the commentary. I'm one of those that finds it distressing that so much material gets cross-posted from Reddit to Metafilter, for the simple reason that it demonstrates that the poster did so little work in searching the web for worthwhile content.
posted by Tube at 12:49 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Tube at 12:49 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
This at least is true, this place basically jumped the shark at 16157.
ah, then - my work here is done
posted by pyramid termite at 12:51 PM on August 9, 2008
ah, then - my work here is done
posted by pyramid termite at 12:51 PM on August 9, 2008
My favorite comment is the one complaining that "That air of smugness on Metafilter will be the eventual cause of its demise."
Who are they kidding? The air of smugness is what keeps me coming back.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:59 PM on August 9, 2008 [24 favorites]
Who are they kidding? The air of smugness is what keeps me coming back.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:59 PM on August 9, 2008 [24 favorites]
just wait until the b3tards find mefi.
wha? teh not funny.
posted by krautland at 1:00 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
wha? teh not funny.
posted by krautland at 1:00 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
More specifically, here is why I don't cross-post material from Reddit to Metafilter; because I'm in basic agreement with the sentiments of Mathowie:
It's a zen thing I suppose, you can't *try* to find something to post on metafilter, because you'll always fail (or it'll just barely be interesting enough). Instead try to simply surf the web, and if you happen upon something amazing, then share it here. And don't be discouraged if you find one link after 2 hours, or one link after 2 weeks, that's just the way these things go. I rarely post more than a couple times per week here. Believe me, especially when I started the site, I tried and tried to find material for the site everyday and it was mostly crap. It was only when I set aside some random browsing time each day that I happened to find interesting material by accident.
posted by Tube at 1:01 PM on August 9, 2008
It's a zen thing I suppose, you can't *try* to find something to post on metafilter, because you'll always fail (or it'll just barely be interesting enough). Instead try to simply surf the web, and if you happen upon something amazing, then share it here. And don't be discouraged if you find one link after 2 hours, or one link after 2 weeks, that's just the way these things go. I rarely post more than a couple times per week here. Believe me, especially when I started the site, I tried and tried to find material for the site everyday and it was mostly crap. It was only when I set aside some random browsing time each day that I happened to find interesting material by accident.
posted by Tube at 1:01 PM on August 9, 2008
it demonstrates that the poster did so little work in searching the web for worthwhile content.
I have never subscribed to the view that a great post is one that demonstrates lots of hard work by the poster. Indeed, frequently posts are made worse by posters' ambitions to show off how hard they worked to create the post via lots of link padding.
A good post is one that has worthwhile content, period. Regardless of where the poster got it or how hard they worked on it.
posted by grouse at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [6 favorites]
I have never subscribed to the view that a great post is one that demonstrates lots of hard work by the poster. Indeed, frequently posts are made worse by posters' ambitions to show off how hard they worked to create the post via lots of link padding.
A good post is one that has worthwhile content, period. Regardless of where the poster got it or how hard they worked on it.
posted by grouse at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [6 favorites]
You know what, I think having a nemesis around here would do me good. But I just like you all too goddamn much.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:31 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:31 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
You know, I really like reddit. I think the discourse is often very funny and someimtes informative. Very often is is immature, but in an obvious way. But, man they really do beat the news sites everytime. Downside of reddit is the stupid Ron Paul/Truthers.
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 1:31 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 1:31 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I check reddit throughout the day because I want something quick (since I'm at work) and fun/interesting (see man hit in crotch). I go to MeFi if I have more time on my hands and want to dig into something more intellectual.
Like, um, Punch 'em in the dick?
posted by desjardins at 1:53 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Like, um, Punch 'em in the dick?
posted by desjardins at 1:53 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is there anyplace on the Web that doesn't have an air of smugness? If there's anything that unites the Internet, from political screedblogs to social link sites, from Focus on the Family message boards to furry incest BDSM forums, it's a billion voices, crying as one: "Everybody's stupid but me!"
posted by lore at 2:07 PM on August 9, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by lore at 2:07 PM on August 9, 2008 [7 favorites]
Let me just mention something I love about MeFi that seems rarer and rarer on every other site I visit:
We have not succumbed to tabbed comment responses.
You'd think they'd be better, containing derails and making communication clearer, but it just makes everything seem more cluttered to me, and somehow less egalitarian.
I can't explain it, but seeing every comment on the same inset over here is like a breath of fresh air to me.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:16 PM on August 9, 2008 [18 favorites]
We have not succumbed to tabbed comment responses.
You'd think they'd be better, containing derails and making communication clearer, but it just makes everything seem more cluttered to me, and somehow less egalitarian.
I can't explain it, but seeing every comment on the same inset over here is like a breath of fresh air to me.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:16 PM on August 9, 2008 [18 favorites]
RON PAUL 08
posted by interrobang at 2:30 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by interrobang at 2:30 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
A good post is one that has worthwhile content, period. Regardless of where the poster got it or how hard they worked on it.
When stuff gets cross-posted from Reditt to Metafilter, it dilutes the uniqueness of Metafilter.
Because, like it or not, Digg and Reddit usually get there first as far as posting "best of the web" links. Since I don't own or run Metafilter, I'm not in a position to dictate its values, but it seems to me that Reddit and Digg have essentially "beaten" Metafilter in the "first!" battle, and so Metafilter needs to adapt and excel in other areas. Personally I enjoy the intelligence and humor of many of the posters, as far as commentary and choice of posts goes.
Two of my more "favorited" FFP's I took from a blog I particularly like called forgetomori. Later I felt rather guilty about this, as I received the kudos for this find, not the forgetomori blog. Were I to do it again, I would most certainly include the "via" hyperlink.
But I won't do it again. I'm one of those weirdos who took what Matt Howie seriously, in that finding valuable content really is a "zen thing", and I would NEVER simply re-post something I found on Reddit or Digg, or even other popular blogs or websites.
Yes, I'm a grizzled prospector with a pan and sluice-box in an age of Reditt's hydraulic mining.
posted by Tube at 2:35 PM on August 9, 2008
When stuff gets cross-posted from Reditt to Metafilter, it dilutes the uniqueness of Metafilter.
Because, like it or not, Digg and Reddit usually get there first as far as posting "best of the web" links. Since I don't own or run Metafilter, I'm not in a position to dictate its values, but it seems to me that Reddit and Digg have essentially "beaten" Metafilter in the "first!" battle, and so Metafilter needs to adapt and excel in other areas. Personally I enjoy the intelligence and humor of many of the posters, as far as commentary and choice of posts goes.
Two of my more "favorited" FFP's I took from a blog I particularly like called forgetomori. Later I felt rather guilty about this, as I received the kudos for this find, not the forgetomori blog. Were I to do it again, I would most certainly include the "via" hyperlink.
But I won't do it again. I'm one of those weirdos who took what Matt Howie seriously, in that finding valuable content really is a "zen thing", and I would NEVER simply re-post something I found on Reddit or Digg, or even other popular blogs or websites.
Yes, I'm a grizzled prospector with a pan and sluice-box in an age of Reditt's hydraulic mining.
posted by Tube at 2:35 PM on August 9, 2008
It's fitting that the 'article' is the kind of blatant Digg-bait blogspam that plagues those sites.
A few paragraphs, a bunch of ads, a mention of the $5, but no mention of anything that actually differentiates Metafilter from the hordes:
posted by blasdelf at 2:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
A few paragraphs, a bunch of ads, a mention of the $5, but no mention of anything that actually differentiates Metafilter from the hordes:
- MetaTalk as a backchannel
- Ask Metafilter, defining the genre, and bringing new people to the site (especially women)
- Self-policing, that we mostly moderate ourselves, with the moderators only working to clean up afterwards. No 'mod sass' bullshit.
- The initial crowd of A-listish webtards
- The close of open signups in 01/02
- The international, professional userbase
- Strong user identity, people are remembered. Reddit has only a few posters noted by name, and then only because they post several times a day about the same topics. Here there are hundreds of prominent active users.
posted by blasdelf at 2:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
Well, I certainly know how many goats Reddit is worth!
Not so many, to be precise.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 3:00 PM on August 9, 2008
Not so many, to be precise.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 3:00 PM on August 9, 2008
Tube, I think you misunderstand what mathowie wrote. He said not to "*try* to find something to post on metafilter." You, on the other hand, bemoan posters who do "so little work in searching the web for worthwhile content." You attempt to distinguish the moral superiority for those "grizzled prospector[s] with a pan and sluice-box" working so hard to bring us content that has a provenance of authenticity—never having been mentioned in nasty popular web sites like Reddit, with its whopping 0.01% daily reach. In short, you give priority to the process rather than the outcome.
You have not yet been enlightened in the Zen of MetaFilter.
My plea, to all MeFites who also read Reddit (or Boing Boing or whatever): please ignore the haters. Most of us don't read them, and most of us don't want to, partially because most of their links are not the Best of the Web. But if you happen to find something that is, please don't hesitate to post it here as well, merely because it was also linked on a web site you think of as popular.
posted by grouse at 3:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [11 favorites]
You have not yet been enlightened in the Zen of MetaFilter.
My plea, to all MeFites who also read Reddit (or Boing Boing or whatever): please ignore the haters. Most of us don't read them, and most of us don't want to, partially because most of their links are not the Best of the Web. But if you happen to find something that is, please don't hesitate to post it here as well, merely because it was also linked on a web site you think of as popular.
posted by grouse at 3:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [11 favorites]
I'll be honest. My last five posts here got a total of 93 favorites. All five were via Reddit.
posted by orthogonality at 3:42 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by orthogonality at 3:42 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
This might be a good spot to complain just a little bit about the quality of post writeups here.
We're good at choosing links, but we're often not very good at packaging. I don't have time to read every link anymore, and I suspect that's probably true of most of us. I have to pick and choose, and the writeup will determine which ones I read.
It's time, I think, to stop stunt-posting. When you do that, you A) immediately limit the subset of people who will see it, and B) prevent it from being posted again by anyone else. So not only do people miss the content, you guarantee that nobody else can do a better job of pointing it out than you did.
Stunt posting is selfish: it's about you, not about the readership. Please stop.
Take the time to write things up carefully and thoroughly. Try to do it well enough that someone who cares about the subject, and comes along after you, won't be disappointed at how you summarized and presented a link they thought was worth putting up. In posting that link, you silenced them, so be sure you spoke well on their behalf.
posted by Malor at 3:51 PM on August 9, 2008 [12 favorites]
We're good at choosing links, but we're often not very good at packaging. I don't have time to read every link anymore, and I suspect that's probably true of most of us. I have to pick and choose, and the writeup will determine which ones I read.
It's time, I think, to stop stunt-posting. When you do that, you A) immediately limit the subset of people who will see it, and B) prevent it from being posted again by anyone else. So not only do people miss the content, you guarantee that nobody else can do a better job of pointing it out than you did.
Stunt posting is selfish: it's about you, not about the readership. Please stop.
Take the time to write things up carefully and thoroughly. Try to do it well enough that someone who cares about the subject, and comes along after you, won't be disappointed at how you summarized and presented a link they thought was worth putting up. In posting that link, you silenced them, so be sure you spoke well on their behalf.
posted by Malor at 3:51 PM on August 9, 2008 [12 favorites]
Malor writes "Take the time to write things up carefully and thoroughly. Try to do it well enough that someone who cares about the subject, and comes along after you, won't be disappointed at how you summarized and presented a link they thought was worth putting up. In posting that link, you silenced them, so be sure you spoke well on their behalf."
About every fifth FPP I do as you suggest. But not more often than that, because there's a vocal minority here that will complain "Get Your Own Blog, Fuckwit" or "that's an editorial" or simply "your post is too long" if you make the effort to craft a multi-post link.
And frankly, it's not worth my time to put that level of effort into a post just to see it get deleted. So I'll be honest: for the last year or so, I've been much more inclined to post "safe" and easy and non-controversial links.
My fifth most recent FPP, which got 19 favorites, also got flagged and a GYOBF. A previous FPP got an off-line complaint from a user who explained he flags any post that uses blockquote.
forrest's masterful 3-second Men post got 169 favorites, but eight people favorited the third comment, a derisive "How to post a blog entry you mean."
If the FPP is political, or mentions Christians, or Dawkins, or touches on women's issues, any packaging just means it's more likely to be flagged and deleted, or derailed by thread-shitters, or even pre-emptively deleted by mods worried that it will provoke flagging and derails.
So, yeah, I'll still occasionally put in the effort to research and dig and package a stellar FPP, but really, it's not worth it just to see that work deleted.
posted by orthogonality at 4:09 PM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
About every fifth FPP I do as you suggest. But not more often than that, because there's a vocal minority here that will complain "Get Your Own Blog, Fuckwit" or "that's an editorial" or simply "your post is too long" if you make the effort to craft a multi-post link.
And frankly, it's not worth my time to put that level of effort into a post just to see it get deleted. So I'll be honest: for the last year or so, I've been much more inclined to post "safe" and easy and non-controversial links.
My fifth most recent FPP, which got 19 favorites, also got flagged and a GYOBF. A previous FPP got an off-line complaint from a user who explained he flags any post that uses blockquote.
forrest's masterful 3-second Men post got 169 favorites, but eight people favorited the third comment, a derisive "How to post a blog entry you mean."
If the FPP is political, or mentions Christians, or Dawkins, or touches on women's issues, any packaging just means it's more likely to be flagged and deleted, or derailed by thread-shitters, or even pre-emptively deleted by mods worried that it will provoke flagging and derails.
So, yeah, I'll still occasionally put in the effort to research and dig and package a stellar FPP, but really, it's not worth it just to see that work deleted.
posted by orthogonality at 4:09 PM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Malor: I agree with you, but I know from experience that if a more thoroughly thought-out post doubles a previous stunt-post on the same topic, the mods will often choose the latter one for the content it brings.
That's the other intangible that makes Metafilter work that Reddit and Digg don't have - our mods are really, really good at what they do.
I wouldn't build a site's "constitution" around it or anything, because obviously you can't guarantee great mods in the future, but it works out really well for us now, at least.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:10 PM on August 9, 2008
That's the other intangible that makes Metafilter work that Reddit and Digg don't have - our mods are really, really good at what they do.
I wouldn't build a site's "constitution" around it or anything, because obviously you can't guarantee great mods in the future, but it works out really well for us now, at least.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:10 PM on August 9, 2008
And you know HOW we know that "our mods are really, really good at what they do"?
Because Deleted Posts do not totally disappear. Matt is courageous (yes, I mean it) enough to make them accessible (via lofi or just entering the post numbers) so you can see what the mods have done. That is SO rare and special. (Insert BoingBoing insult here)
I almost wish they'd do something similar with Deleted Comments, but that would be so much more prone to abuse and confusion.
posted by wendell at 4:24 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Because Deleted Posts do not totally disappear. Matt is courageous (yes, I mean it) enough to make them accessible (via lofi or just entering the post numbers) so you can see what the mods have done. That is SO rare and special. (Insert BoingBoing insult here)
I almost wish they'd do something similar with Deleted Comments, but that would be so much more prone to abuse and confusion.
posted by wendell at 4:24 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
orthogonality writes "forrest's masterful 3-second Men post got 169 favorites, but eight people favorited the third comment, a derisive 'How to post a blog entry you mean.'"
I don't think Malor was railing against posts like forrest's rather the kind of mystery meat like this post consisting of a single letter. Or even carsonb's post on that nude model, an awesome story that I only saw once it came up here.
posted by Mitheral at 4:55 PM on August 9, 2008
I don't think Malor was railing against posts like forrest's rather the kind of mystery meat like this post consisting of a single letter. Or even carsonb's post on that nude model, an awesome story that I only saw once it came up here.
posted by Mitheral at 4:55 PM on August 9, 2008
HE SAID THE MINIMUM WAGE IS TOO HIGH, JON
I AGREE, I DON'T KNOW WHY THESE KIDS NEED MONEY THEY'RE JUST GONNA SPEND ON TATTOOS ON THEIR PRIVATES ANYWAY, FOR PETE'S SAKE
I BID THREE SPADES
POUR ME SOME MORE LEMONADE
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [20 favorites]
I AGREE, I DON'T KNOW WHY THESE KIDS NEED MONEY THEY'RE JUST GONNA SPEND ON TATTOOS ON THEIR PRIVATES ANYWAY, FOR PETE'S SAKE
I BID THREE SPADES
POUR ME SOME MORE LEMONADE
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:03 PM on August 9, 2008 [20 favorites]
What's the minnimum way to get high??
I usually just chop up my Geritol and snort it, but all the ladies here at the gated community started cozying up to me to get some and then they canceled Midnight Caller, and..what the hell were you talking about again?
posted by jonmc at 5:06 PM on August 9, 2008
I usually just chop up my Geritol and snort it, but all the ladies here at the gated community started cozying up to me to get some and then they canceled Midnight Caller, and..what the hell were you talking about again?
posted by jonmc at 5:06 PM on August 9, 2008
Anway, then I used one of those newfangled interweb pharmacies to get me some Viagra, and they offered me a deal on some Vicodin, so most of the time I'm fast asleep with a raging hard-on. I rent myself out to carnivals as a ringtoss for extra cash.
posted by jonmc at 5:09 PM on August 9, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:09 PM on August 9, 2008 [6 favorites]
The specific post that annoyed me on this subject originally was this one.
I got that from another source, and I thought it was amazing, so I took the time to hunt down a bunch of links and assemble what I think would have been an excellent post. Then I found out that flanders just tossed it up haphazardly as a SLYT with no context. So, I couldn't draw proper attention to an amazing video. He spent no effort at all, and when I sent him a disappointed MeMail at the low quality of his post, he was a real dick and told me to take it to Meta. It wasn't worth that, so I didn't bother at the time, but I guess I am now.
That video is so much better with the framing that this area has been closed due to danger, that the guy with the video camera is breaking the law, and that people have died doing exactly what he's doing. Some background on the area and why that path was built in such a ridiculously precarious place would have been good too. But, nope, nothing, just single-link it and move on. That's lazy as shit.
I also was a little disappointed to find that this post had already been made. I'm not sure my writeup would have actually been any better, exactly, but I'd probably have packaged it this way:
At the end of World War Two, the Russians took over 600,000 Japanese prisoners of war, and shipped them off to the gulags. This is the hand-drawn pictorial story of one of those prisoners, complete with charmingly broken English captions. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
That's just stylistic, and I don't think my way is clearly better -- I am NOT saying that the original link was poorly done -- but I did miss it the first time through, and I think I would have seen it in my writeup.
posted by Malor at 5:20 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I got that from another source, and I thought it was amazing, so I took the time to hunt down a bunch of links and assemble what I think would have been an excellent post. Then I found out that flanders just tossed it up haphazardly as a SLYT with no context. So, I couldn't draw proper attention to an amazing video. He spent no effort at all, and when I sent him a disappointed MeMail at the low quality of his post, he was a real dick and told me to take it to Meta. It wasn't worth that, so I didn't bother at the time, but I guess I am now.
That video is so much better with the framing that this area has been closed due to danger, that the guy with the video camera is breaking the law, and that people have died doing exactly what he's doing. Some background on the area and why that path was built in such a ridiculously precarious place would have been good too. But, nope, nothing, just single-link it and move on. That's lazy as shit.
I also was a little disappointed to find that this post had already been made. I'm not sure my writeup would have actually been any better, exactly, but I'd probably have packaged it this way:
At the end of World War Two, the Russians took over 600,000 Japanese prisoners of war, and shipped them off to the gulags. This is the hand-drawn pictorial story of one of those prisoners, complete with charmingly broken English captions. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
That's just stylistic, and I don't think my way is clearly better -- I am NOT saying that the original link was poorly done -- but I did miss it the first time through, and I think I would have seen it in my writeup.
posted by Malor at 5:20 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
From now on, I'm going to interpret text written in caps lock as old men around a card table. This is going to improve the internet immeasurably for me. Thanks, cortex.
posted by jocelmeow at 5:34 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by jocelmeow at 5:34 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
whats reddit ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:43 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:43 PM on August 9, 2008
So, yeah, I'll still occasionally put in the effort to research and dig and package a stellar FPP, but really, it's not worth it just to see that work deleted.
That's a good point, btw, and I don't have a good answer. One thought that comes to mind: is the extra framing and background actually framing and background, or editorializing? Providing more information is for the reader's benefit, but editorializing is for yours.
The thought does occur, though, that deleting an FPP because of bad comments is maybe getting things a bit backwards.
As an aside, I entirely agree with you about forrest's post. It's probably the single best one I've ever seen on Metafilter.
posted by Malor at 5:44 PM on August 9, 2008
That's a good point, btw, and I don't have a good answer. One thought that comes to mind: is the extra framing and background actually framing and background, or editorializing? Providing more information is for the reader's benefit, but editorializing is for yours.
The thought does occur, though, that deleting an FPP because of bad comments is maybe getting things a bit backwards.
As an aside, I entirely agree with you about forrest's post. It's probably the single best one I've ever seen on Metafilter.
posted by Malor at 5:44 PM on August 9, 2008
Also, with all the 'Russia at war with Georgia!' headlines this morning, did any one else get a mental image of some confused old guy standing on a porch in Atlanta, with a shotgun yelling 'C'mon & fight, dang Rooski's!'
I've also been hearing a Charlie Daniels song in my head, but so far all I've got is:
The Russkis went down to Georgia
they were looking for land to steal...
posted by jonmc at 5:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've also been hearing a Charlie Daniels song in my head, but so far all I've got is:
The Russkis went down to Georgia
they were looking for land to steal...
posted by jonmc at 5:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Both of the worthwhile web communities I spend time on- Metafilter and Something Awful- have entrance fees. I really don't think that this is coincidental. Having misbehavior cost money is a big deal, especially for the teenagers without disposable income- i.e. the biggest troll demographic.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:58 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:58 PM on August 9, 2008
Malor writes "One thought that comes to mind: is the extra framing and background actually framing and background, or editorializing?"
Well, framing and background, as it the choice of a few links out of potentially millions,is a form of editorializing.
On my Luther's antisemitism FPP, what upset a small minority was that I mentioned the modern Lutheran sects' rejection of Luther's antisemitism. I added that mainly to forestall any criticism and flags arising from not explicitly acknowledging the modern churches' repudiation. But apparently, mentioning it at all was seen as an editorial attack on the modern Lutheran churches.
And the problem is, I've had what I think were pretty balanced and informative FPPs deleted because one user gets in earlly and derails and trasjhes the thread. It becomes purely a matter of who gets in first. The Luther FPP was saved because sveral people got in their and favorited it,but had they not showed up early in th ethread, the flaggers might have gotten it deleted,
So posting anything with any potential for controversy becomes a crap-shoot, and I don't have the time to spend a couple hours packaging something that might be deleted if the wrong axe-grinder sees it first.
The FPP on the Berwyn Heights mayor, whose dogs were killed by police in an unwarranted (pun intended) drug bust? For several days I'd been thinking about posting that, but I didn't, because I knew that if the wrong user got in early with a "oh more police brutality outrage-filer, amitrite", it would be deleted, just as several police brutality FPPs have been deleted in the past.
Fortunately, someone else posted it, and I got in some supportive of the importance of the post editorializing in an early comment, and only one poster showed up with "not all cops are bad". But that was purely a matter of timing.
It's too easy for the "I'm offended, delete this post" flaggers to get posts deleted, especially when the mods will sometimes delete posts just because similar posts in the past have attracted axe-grinders with grievances demanding deletion; LOLXTIANS is the prime example, with anything "political" close behind.
That's all fine, but that's why as of late I'm much more likely to post something innocuous, but innocuous by its very nature doesn't have the depth or intellectual heft or salience you want in an FPP.
posted by orthogonality at 6:23 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, framing and background, as it the choice of a few links out of potentially millions,is a form of editorializing.
On my Luther's antisemitism FPP, what upset a small minority was that I mentioned the modern Lutheran sects' rejection of Luther's antisemitism. I added that mainly to forestall any criticism and flags arising from not explicitly acknowledging the modern churches' repudiation. But apparently, mentioning it at all was seen as an editorial attack on the modern Lutheran churches.
And the problem is, I've had what I think were pretty balanced and informative FPPs deleted because one user gets in earlly and derails and trasjhes the thread. It becomes purely a matter of who gets in first. The Luther FPP was saved because sveral people got in their and favorited it,but had they not showed up early in th ethread, the flaggers might have gotten it deleted,
So posting anything with any potential for controversy becomes a crap-shoot, and I don't have the time to spend a couple hours packaging something that might be deleted if the wrong axe-grinder sees it first.
The FPP on the Berwyn Heights mayor, whose dogs were killed by police in an unwarranted (pun intended) drug bust? For several days I'd been thinking about posting that, but I didn't, because I knew that if the wrong user got in early with a "oh more police brutality outrage-filer, amitrite", it would be deleted, just as several police brutality FPPs have been deleted in the past.
Fortunately, someone else posted it, and I got in some supportive of the importance of the post editorializing in an early comment, and only one poster showed up with "not all cops are bad". But that was purely a matter of timing.
It's too easy for the "I'm offended, delete this post" flaggers to get posts deleted, especially when the mods will sometimes delete posts just because similar posts in the past have attracted axe-grinders with grievances demanding deletion; LOLXTIANS is the prime example, with anything "political" close behind.
That's all fine, but that's why as of late I'm much more likely to post something innocuous, but innocuous by its very nature doesn't have the depth or intellectual heft or salience you want in an FPP.
posted by orthogonality at 6:23 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Phalene writes "I moved here, from Reddit, to escape the sexism."
Reddit's not sexist; it's just that down in th depths of their mothers' basements, they believe all women other than Mom are mythical. ;)
posted by orthogonality at 6:38 PM on August 9, 2008
Reddit's not sexist; it's just that down in th depths of their mothers' basements, they believe all women other than Mom are mythical. ;)
posted by orthogonality at 6:38 PM on August 9, 2008
I got that from another source, and I thought it was amazing, so I took the time to hunt down a bunch of links and assemble what I think would have been an excellent post. Then I found out that flanders just tossed it up haphazardly as a SLYT with no context.
If only there was some way you could have added your extra links to stupidsexyflanders's's FPP. Perhaps pb could whip up some sort of sub-post function, where folks other than the OP can contribute related links, commentary, and suchlike.
So, I couldn't draw proper attention to an amazing video. He spent no effort at all, and when I sent him a disappointed MeMail at the low quality of his post, he was a real dick and told me to take it to Meta. It wasn't worth that, so I didn't bother at the time, but I guess I am now.
I wasn't even going to comment on who actually looks like a dick in that situation, but I guess I am now.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:39 PM on August 9, 2008
If only there was some way you could have added your extra links to stupidsexyflanders's's FPP. Perhaps pb could whip up some sort of sub-post function, where folks other than the OP can contribute related links, commentary, and suchlike.
So, I couldn't draw proper attention to an amazing video. He spent no effort at all, and when I sent him a disappointed MeMail at the low quality of his post, he was a real dick and told me to take it to Meta. It wasn't worth that, so I didn't bother at the time, but I guess I am now.
I wasn't even going to comment on who actually looks like a dick in that situation, but I guess I am now.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:39 PM on August 9, 2008
Personally, being relatively new, I just like being able to feel like the people around me aren't total idiots. You all paid $5 to maek poast, as it were, and it seems unlikely that you're going to get the sheer volume of fuckwittery that you get elsewhere with that barrier to entry.
My own style of commenting is often silly, of course, but that's just me.
posted by sonic meat machine at 6:54 PM on August 9, 2008
My own style of commenting is often silly, of course, but that's just me.
posted by sonic meat machine at 6:54 PM on August 9, 2008
Personally, being relatively new, I just like being able to feel like the people around me aren't total idiots. You all paid $5 to maek poast, as it were, and it seems unlikely that you're going to get the sheer volume of fuckwittery that you get elsewhere with that barrier to entry.
Because nobody with five bucks to spare could possibly be an idiot? There's a lot of good reasons for matt to charge for entry here (mainly involvingthe work and expense he puts in here) but that's never been the best one.
posted by jonmc at 6:57 PM on August 9, 2008
Because nobody with five bucks to spare could possibly be an idiot? There's a lot of good reasons for matt to charge for entry here (mainly involvingthe work and expense he puts in here) but that's never been the best one.
posted by jonmc at 6:57 PM on August 9, 2008
Of course they could, jonmc. However, there are different types of idiots, and one of the most pernicious Internet species of idiot is the teenaged nerd. The $5 fee does help to keep out the "omfg lol faggot" comments.
If someone just has an opinion I consider idiotic, that's different.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:02 PM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
If someone just has an opinion I consider idiotic, that's different.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:02 PM on August 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
The $5 fee does help to keep out the "omfg lol faggot" comments.
On the other hand, it could be keeping out some genius who simply dosen't feel like parting with a fiver. I'm not saying matt shouldn't charge, he has to make a living, but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate? It always was to me.
posted by jonmc at 7:05 PM on August 9, 2008
On the other hand, it could be keeping out some genius who simply dosen't feel like parting with a fiver. I'm not saying matt shouldn't charge, he has to make a living, but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate? It always was to me.
posted by jonmc at 7:05 PM on August 9, 2008
They can participate, they just can't do it here.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:08 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:08 PM on August 9, 2008
Sure, jonmc, that's one of the good things. It's also completely broken once you reach a certain threshold of popularity. Look at Youtube. Its popularity is incredible. Its “community” is also incredible.
They are incredible for very different reasons.
Do you remember “Eternal September?” I doubt very much that most people who used Usenet prior to 1993 would say that its sudden explosion in popularity had many benefits.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:13 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
They are incredible for very different reasons.
Do you remember “Eternal September?” I doubt very much that most people who used Usenet prior to 1993 would say that its sudden explosion in popularity had many benefits.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:13 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's a bit of a specious point, since most people who own a PC and maintain an internet connection can probably scrape together $5. But I don't really think that 'exclusivity' is what makes this a good site.
posted by jonmc at 7:14 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by jonmc at 7:14 PM on August 9, 2008
Alvy, by the time I found the post, it was closed. Nothing more could be added. I had my post all ready to go, so I would certainly have done a linkdump into the thread if I'd been able to.
I missed it precisely because it was a SLYT with no context. And when I privately complained, he essentially told me to fuck off and take it to Meta. I wouldn't have bothered, but someone up yonder wanted a specific example, so that's how we got here.
The tone of your post is ridiculously sarcastic and nasty.
posted by Malor at 7:17 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I missed it precisely because it was a SLYT with no context. And when I privately complained, he essentially told me to fuck off and take it to Meta. I wouldn't have bothered, but someone up yonder wanted a specific example, so that's how we got here.
The tone of your post is ridiculously sarcastic and nasty.
posted by Malor at 7:17 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, jonmc, they can “scrape it together,” but it adds a little bit of a barrier to entry. It requires effort. A lot of Internet idiots are out for the "lulz" and will vandalize, criticize, or shit on anything they can as long as it costs them nothing. The registration fee is part of it; the moderation is another part; the existence of MetaTalk helps; and the social tenets are the least technical but most important part.
For a functioning online community to form and persevere, the newcomers to that community must want to belong to it rather than destroy it, which is why unmoderated social sites are such dismal failures. If the signal-to-noise ratio drops too dismally, the “oldbies” won't be able to perpetuate the culture and the site will collapse under its own weight. You'd get:
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:26 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
For a functioning online community to form and persevere, the newcomers to that community must want to belong to it rather than destroy it, which is why unmoderated social sites are such dismal failures. If the signal-to-noise ratio drops too dismally, the “oldbies” won't be able to perpetuate the culture and the site will collapse under its own weight. You'd get:
lol u didiot jonmcIt's happened a thousand times.
posted by sh1td1ck at 7:18 PM on August 9
My heavens! This new group of metafilter registrants is so gauche!
posted by jonmc at 7:20 PM on August 9
go eat a dead donkey
posted by rollntwennies at 7:21 PM on August 9
fuck you frenchie douche
posted by sh1td1ck at 7:21 PM on August 9
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:26 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Alvy, by the time I found the post, it was closed. Nothing more could be added. I had my post all ready to go, so I would certainly have done a linkdump into the thread if I'd been able to.
Ahh, apologies for my nasty sarcasm.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2008
Ahh, apologies for my nasty sarcasm.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2008
sonic meat machine, there was no fee here for years and compared to most of the internet, we had very little of that kind of stuff. Mainly because, I don't think they'd be much interested. Not to mention, when we feel like driving somebody away, we can get pretty nasty.
But like I said, I have no problem with matt charging, since this is a full time job for him (and jess and cortex, too). However, when I joined, I did it on a lark and if I had to pay, I might have passed (to pre-empt the smartasses, I'm quite aware many would have considered that a blessing. and, yes I'm gateful for the lack of IRC-level comments, too. But I'm uncomfortable with idea of promoting some kind of velvet-rope exclusivity as our greatest virtue.
posted by jonmc at 7:34 PM on August 9, 2008
But like I said, I have no problem with matt charging, since this is a full time job for him (and jess and cortex, too). However, when I joined, I did it on a lark and if I had to pay, I might have passed (to pre-empt the smartasses, I'm quite aware many would have considered that a blessing. and, yes I'm gateful for the lack of IRC-level comments, too. But I'm uncomfortable with idea of promoting some kind of velvet-rope exclusivity as our greatest virtue.
posted by jonmc at 7:34 PM on August 9, 2008
Does spending $5 to post on a web forum (a service that's normally free) prove that one is not an idiot? I think you may have gotten that exactly backwards.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:45 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:45 PM on August 9, 2008
reddit discovers Metafilter
Is this something I should put on pants for?
but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate?
If there's one thing that everyone should have learned from the past 15 years of internet popularity is that there are assholes who shouldn't participate, but do. If $5 keeps a lot of them out, then I say raise the fee to $10.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:45 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is this something I should put on pants for?
but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate?
If there's one thing that everyone should have learned from the past 15 years of internet popularity is that there are assholes who shouldn't participate, but do. If $5 keeps a lot of them out, then I say raise the fee to $10.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:45 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is too much:
sonic meat machine explains, with examples, that without a barrier to entry, we'd see users insulting each other.
jonmc, who arrived before the entry fee and might not have joined had there been a fee, begs to differ.
The same jonmc who in the last hour insulted me, and called PopeGuilty a "fuckhead", in a thread in the blue.
jon, jon, as the Polar Bear said to the unlucky hunter, you're not coming here for the hunting, are you?
posted by orthogonality at 7:48 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
sonic meat machine explains, with examples, that without a barrier to entry, we'd see users insulting each other.
jonmc, who arrived before the entry fee and might not have joined had there been a fee, begs to differ.
The same jonmc who in the last hour insulted me, and called PopeGuilty a "fuckhead", in a thread in the blue.
jon, jon, as the Polar Bear said to the unlucky hunter, you're not coming here for the hunting, are you?
posted by orthogonality at 7:48 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
orthogonality, even with the fee, we see people insulting eachother. Beyond displaying how great you are, do you have a point. (also, don't drag that fight over here)
posted by jonmc at 7:52 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by jonmc at 7:52 PM on August 9, 2008
"Median age may be too high?"
This about us telling them to get off our lawn, isn't it.
posted by louche mustachio at 7:56 PM on August 9, 2008
This about us telling them to get off our lawn, isn't it.
posted by louche mustachio at 7:56 PM on August 9, 2008
I think the fact that we paid $5 to get in also makes us more invested in the site's well-being. So, rather than spilling beer on the floor, dropping chips on the carpet, and letting someone else clean up after that guy who yakked on the stereo, we all do our part to keep up a clean house by making quality posts and flagging inappropriate ones cos, goshdarnit, we PAID for this, so we better use it well!
posted by NikitaNikita at 7:56 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by NikitaNikita at 7:56 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing is that if you want to troll Metafilter, you have to keep paying $5 as your account gets shut down by the mods. Why bother when there are so many free places to be a jerk?
posted by LarryC at 7:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by LarryC at 7:57 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
(In other words, "median age too high", I guess.)
posted by NikitaNikita at 7:57 PM on August 9, 2008
posted by NikitaNikita at 7:57 PM on August 9, 2008
The barrier to entry, however slight, may not be what keeps this place from looking like the YouTube comment boards -- I don't think MetaFilter is lowest common denominator enough to interest the "omfg u r F@g" crowd except maybe in passing -- but it is what probably keeps the site from looking like the comments over on AV Club. A lot of the lulzy comments on their articles are actually funny; a lot more of them are stupid; a smaller but significant percentage will make you weep for humanity; and, usually replied to with a much more literate but still pretty 'tarded variation on "omfg u r F@g," there are even a few out-of-place intelligent comments that aren't even meant as jokes or anything. Compared to what you'll find on YouTube or IMDB, the AV Club commenters look like fucking MENSA, but they're still a cut below what really should be there on the basis of the site's actual content. (Perhaps significantly, the best signal-to-noise ratio is usually found in the comments on the book reviews...which also get many, many fewer comments than just about anything else on the site.)
Also...you know, five bucks per member adds up. It's nice to do nice things for free, but nice things don't get done for free forever. It's not reasonable to expect that they should.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:10 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also...you know, five bucks per member adds up. It's nice to do nice things for free, but nice things don't get done for free forever. It's not reasonable to expect that they should.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:10 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
You could charge 5 bucks to allow people access to a site where no one does anything but scream and rant at one another and there'd still be an audience to pay. Even the best mods couldn't do anything if no one civil wanted to play in the first place. I think what keeps metafilter nice is that it, for whatever reason, evolved a community that cares that it stays nice. There's a sense of community and a willingness within it to maintain quality, which attracts other people who like that idea. It's a good system.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 8:29 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Solon and Thanks at 8:29 PM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
forrest's masterful 3-second Men post got 169 favorites.
Oh, but you missed the best part! The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!
We are so awesome!
posted by dirigibleman at 8:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, but you missed the best part! The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!
We are so awesome!
posted by dirigibleman at 8:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Solon and Thanks, that site exists. It's called Something Awful.
There are a lot of sites that began with an aim toward developing what MeFi has, though, that just fell off the tracks somewhere. Some of them bounced off every truss on the trestle on the way down, too. Why? Well, part of it is probably dedication. When you're building popularity, you need a good core group of users and a good moderator or two, as well as an interesting idea. Later, when you get a critical mass, a slight barrier to entry can help maintain what already exists.
That's all I'm sayin'.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:34 PM on August 9, 2008
There are a lot of sites that began with an aim toward developing what MeFi has, though, that just fell off the tracks somewhere. Some of them bounced off every truss on the trestle on the way down, too. Why? Well, part of it is probably dedication. When you're building popularity, you need a good core group of users and a good moderator or two, as well as an interesting idea. Later, when you get a critical mass, a slight barrier to entry can help maintain what already exists.
That's all I'm sayin'.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:34 PM on August 9, 2008
> I doubt very much that most people who used Usenet prior to 1993 would say that its
> sudden explosion in popularity had many benefits.
Just a side note to observe that rec.arts.books, at least, has not been destroyed by the spam and everything else that happened to poor old usenet. The bookish folks over there seem to have defended their turf pretty well and it's still a nice place to hang out. Maybe book talk just doesn't attract lulz-seekers. Or maybe it's all the librarians...
posted by jfuller at 8:38 PM on August 9, 2008
> sudden explosion in popularity had many benefits.
Just a side note to observe that rec.arts.books, at least, has not been destroyed by the spam and everything else that happened to poor old usenet. The bookish folks over there seem to have defended their turf pretty well and it's still a nice place to hang out. Maybe book talk just doesn't attract lulz-seekers. Or maybe it's all the librarians...
posted by jfuller at 8:38 PM on August 9, 2008
dirigibleman writes "The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!"
Damn. That just sucks.
posted by orthogonality at 8:40 PM on August 9, 2008
Damn. That just sucks.
posted by orthogonality at 8:40 PM on August 9, 2008
jfuller, I lurk r.a.b, r.a.sf.written, and the rec.games.roguelike.* hierarchy. None of them are quite dead yet, but they're looking none too lively. These days I hang around LibraryThing a lot, although most of the interest is outside the Talk section.
There's something about web forums that breeds poll posting, which I hate with a passion.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:42 PM on August 9, 2008
There's something about web forums that breeds poll posting, which I hate with a passion.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:42 PM on August 9, 2008
On the other hand, it could be keeping out some genius who simply dosen't feel like parting with a fiver.
Those folks sometimes write to us about it in nice, coherent terms, which usually works out for all involved.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:57 PM on August 9, 2008
Those folks sometimes write to us about it in nice, coherent terms, which usually works out for all involved.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:57 PM on August 9, 2008
jonmc writes "I'm not saying matt shouldn't charge, he has to make a living, but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate? It always was to me."
I don't know. On one hand I'm glad my dad is online. On the other, the September that Never Ended.
dirigibleman writes "Oh, but you missed the best part! The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!
"We are so awesome!"
The Meta over the thread didn't just praise the post. It held out the post as a shining beacon of a great post and that was at minimum debatable. The fact that forrest then left is not the fault of the meta poster or the advocates of the worthiness of the post for or against. No one was cruel or launched an ad hominum attack against forrest until after he left and the thread was civil. IE: people were critical of the post not the poster.
posted by Mitheral at 9:21 PM on August 9, 2008
I don't know. On one hand I'm glad my dad is online. On the other, the September that Never Ended.
dirigibleman writes "Oh, but you missed the best part! The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!
"We are so awesome!"
The Meta over the thread didn't just praise the post. It held out the post as a shining beacon of a great post and that was at minimum debatable. The fact that forrest then left is not the fault of the meta poster or the advocates of the worthiness of the post for or against. No one was cruel or launched an ad hominum attack against forrest until after he left and the thread was civil. IE: people were critical of the post not the poster.
posted by Mitheral at 9:21 PM on August 9, 2008
The hateful comments in the MeTa post that praised his FPP ultimately drove him from the site!
The MeTa post was about how forrest's post should be held up as an example of what a FPP should be. Many people disagreed with that assessment; as someone who has read every word of every MeTa post since at least 2004, I feel comfortable saying that the disagreement was decent and civil relative to the usual level of discourse in a MeTa thread. It's unfortunate that forrest was so thin-skinned to take his ball and go home, but to describe the situation as one where "hateful" comments "drove" him from the site is to dial up the Hyperbolotron to unsafe radiation levels.
posted by Kwine at 9:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
The MeTa post was about how forrest's post should be held up as an example of what a FPP should be. Many people disagreed with that assessment; as someone who has read every word of every MeTa post since at least 2004, I feel comfortable saying that the disagreement was decent and civil relative to the usual level of discourse in a MeTa thread. It's unfortunate that forrest was so thin-skinned to take his ball and go home, but to describe the situation as one where "hateful" comments "drove" him from the site is to dial up the Hyperbolotron to unsafe radiation levels.
posted by Kwine at 9:32 PM on August 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
but isn't one of the good things about the internet that anybody can participate?
Not to be a smartass, but... no?
I mean I think it's cool that everyone (with a computer and net access, in countries that don't censor) can have email, and IM their friends, and read the news. And anyone can READ Metafilter, $5 or no.
But as far as having an intelligent conversation, or doing something creative? The fact that a lot of people can participate is the absolute worst thing. This is where we get all the "citizen journalist" "you are the person of the year" horsehit. This is why all this "omg interactive online tv show/story/whatever" stuff always falls so flat.
Because of this ugly fact: Creativity is a dictatorship. Sorry, it is. An artist has an idea of what he thinks needs saying and a way to say it, and he imposes it on an audience. They either accept it or they don't. In a very similar way, Matt had an idea of what makes a good community, and us paying $5 indicates we accept this and agree to play along. I don't mean this as an ass-kiss, but this site is good because Matt made it good. If "everyone could participate" and the opinion of some "lol ur ghey" kid on what makes a good community was just as valid as those of the moderators... you do the math.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:30 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not to be a smartass, but... no?
I mean I think it's cool that everyone (with a computer and net access, in countries that don't censor) can have email, and IM their friends, and read the news. And anyone can READ Metafilter, $5 or no.
But as far as having an intelligent conversation, or doing something creative? The fact that a lot of people can participate is the absolute worst thing. This is where we get all the "citizen journalist" "you are the person of the year" horsehit. This is why all this "omg interactive online tv show/story/whatever" stuff always falls so flat.
Because of this ugly fact: Creativity is a dictatorship. Sorry, it is. An artist has an idea of what he thinks needs saying and a way to say it, and he imposes it on an audience. They either accept it or they don't. In a very similar way, Matt had an idea of what makes a good community, and us paying $5 indicates we accept this and agree to play along. I don't mean this as an ass-kiss, but this site is good because Matt made it good. If "everyone could participate" and the opinion of some "lol ur ghey" kid on what makes a good community was just as valid as those of the moderators... you do the math.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:30 PM on August 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America writes: Does spending $5 to post on a web forum (a service that's normally free) prove that one is not an idiot? I think you may have gotten that exactly backwards.
Hmm. You paid 5 bucks Steve, and so did most everyone else here. So I reckon we'll have to determine who's an idiot and who's not by some other criterion, like, say, the quality and substance of people's contributions to the site.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:52 PM on August 9, 2008
Hmm. You paid 5 bucks Steve, and so did most everyone else here. So I reckon we'll have to determine who's an idiot and who's not by some other criterion, like, say, the quality and substance of people's contributions to the site.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:52 PM on August 9, 2008
Hmm. You paid 5 bucks Steve, and so did most everyone else here.
I assume you're pointing out that I'm clearly not an idiot, and I appreciate the kind word.
So I reckon we'll have to determine who's an idiot and who's not by some other criterion, like, say, the quality and substance of people's contributions to the site.
You could do that, but you'd probably end up measuring only earnestness.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:21 AM on August 10, 2008
I assume you're pointing out that I'm clearly not an idiot, and I appreciate the kind word.
So I reckon we'll have to determine who's an idiot and who's not by some other criterion, like, say, the quality and substance of people's contributions to the site.
You could do that, but you'd probably end up measuring only earnestness.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:21 AM on August 10, 2008
MetaTalk: Dial up the Hyperbolotron to unsafe radiation levels!
For SCIENCE!
Now if you'll just stand over here in this X marked on the floor, we'll begin shortly. Don't breathe too deeply and for fuck's sake do not move. They're doing some experiments with the Sarcasmatron next door and we've discovered there's a little bit of an issue with the magnetic flux when we're both running our coils at the same time. I don't mean to frighten you but the last guy we had in here was flayed from toes to scalp when he moved about 3 centimeters too far back and encountered an invisible, highly concentrated beam of withering sarcasm that was contaminated with a little irony.
No, that wasn't hyperbole. Yes, I'm sure. It's not possible. As you can see I'm wearing my Earnestogram dosimeter, which as you sure know is entirely infallible, wait, what? What do you mean it's turned red? OH MY GOD IT'S TOO LATE WE'RE ALL DOOMED RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILLS!
posted by loquacious at 12:57 AM on August 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
For SCIENCE!
Now if you'll just stand over here in this X marked on the floor, we'll begin shortly. Don't breathe too deeply and for fuck's sake do not move. They're doing some experiments with the Sarcasmatron next door and we've discovered there's a little bit of an issue with the magnetic flux when we're both running our coils at the same time. I don't mean to frighten you but the last guy we had in here was flayed from toes to scalp when he moved about 3 centimeters too far back and encountered an invisible, highly concentrated beam of withering sarcasm that was contaminated with a little irony.
No, that wasn't hyperbole. Yes, I'm sure. It's not possible. As you can see I'm wearing my Earnestogram dosimeter, which as you sure know is entirely infallible, wait, what? What do you mean it's turned red? OH MY GOD IT'S TOO LATE WE'RE ALL DOOMED RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILLS!
posted by loquacious at 12:57 AM on August 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
My hyperbolotron is stuck in the minus range. That's quite unfortunate because often my comments tend to become somewhat weak sauce. I think it's possibly because the english we learned in school was more British oriented.
I rather like your metaphor kwine.
posted by jouke at 1:12 AM on August 10, 2008
I rather like your metaphor kwine.
posted by jouke at 1:12 AM on August 10, 2008
I assume you're pointing out that I'm clearly not an idiot...
Two words for you, Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America:
Never assume.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:17 AM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Two words for you, Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America:
Never assume.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:17 AM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Never assume.
But he's just so goddamn good at it! Why fuck with greatness?
posted by loquacious at 1:52 AM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
But he's just so goddamn good at it! Why fuck with greatness?
posted by loquacious at 1:52 AM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Heck, some people pay their $5 more than once, just so they can keep proving they aren't an idiot.
I paid mine because there were smart people here, not because I thought it was keeping anyone away. Total Fark is $5 a month, I don't think you can claim that it keeps the stupid out.
posted by pupdog at 2:29 AM on August 10, 2008
I paid mine because there were smart people here, not because I thought it was keeping anyone away. Total Fark is $5 a month, I don't think you can claim that it keeps the stupid out.
posted by pupdog at 2:29 AM on August 10, 2008
I think it's possibly because the english we learned in school was more British oriented.
What's all this then? Smack 'im on the knob, boys. Literally, *smack* him on the *knob*.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:29 AM on August 10, 2008
What's all this then? Smack 'im on the knob, boys. Literally, *smack* him on the *knob*.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:29 AM on August 10, 2008
But Christ, what a parcel of pompous, self-regarding, up-their-own-arse dicks they can be; especially the rather large contingent of old-timers who like to play at superannuated school prefects, and whine and bitch endlessly about protocol on Metatalk. I hated some of those twats with a thick red passion.
Posted here for ironic purposes.
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:50 AM on August 10, 2008
Posted here for ironic purposes.
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:50 AM on August 10, 2008
I hated some of those twats with a thick red passion.
Actually, hate goes much better with a basic bechamel, or even a sauce Bearnaise, and anyone who doesn't know that probably isn't right for MetaFilter anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:01 AM on August 10, 2008
Actually, hate goes much better with a basic bechamel, or even a sauce Bearnaise, and anyone who doesn't know that probably isn't right for MetaFilter anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:01 AM on August 10, 2008
I would've thought a thick red passion was better suited for loving twats.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:14 AM on August 10, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:14 AM on August 10, 2008
Well, like the song says, it's a thin line between love and hate, Ubu.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:49 AM on August 10, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:49 AM on August 10, 2008
what a parcel of pompous, self-regarding, up-their-own-arse dicks they can be
I'll have you know, I have never been up-my-own-arse, yet.
posted by netbros at 5:35 AM on August 10, 2008
I'll have you know, I have never been up-my-own-arse, yet.
posted by netbros at 5:35 AM on August 10, 2008
it's a thin line between love and hate
and a fine fine line between pleasure and pain!
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:43 AM on August 10, 2008
and a fine fine line between pleasure and pain!
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:43 AM on August 10, 2008
I'll have you know, I have never been up-my-own-arse, yet.
Well of course not, netbros! We Americans go up our own ASS. We leave all that arse stuff to the British.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:10 AM on August 10, 2008
Well of course not, netbros! We Americans go up our own ASS. We leave all that arse stuff to the British.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:10 AM on August 10, 2008
it's a thin line between love and hate
And the border guards are atrocious!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:30 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
And the border guards are atrocious!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:30 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
We Americans go up our own arse/ass.
I always wondered how you differentiate that.
It quite clear to me that one is a donkey the other is a bottom.
posted by tellurian at 7:47 AM on August 10, 2008
I always wondered how you differentiate that.
It quite clear to me that one is a donkey the other is a bottom.
posted by tellurian at 7:47 AM on August 10, 2008
A thread about Reddit and only two mentions of Ron Paul?
posted by Damn That Television at 7:59 AM on August 10, 2008
posted by Damn That Television at 7:59 AM on August 10, 2008
Well of course not, netbros! We Americans go up our own ASS.
Thank you. Americans who use faux-Brit affectations will be the first beheaded when I am emporer.
posted by jonmc at 8:01 AM on August 10, 2008
Thank you. Americans who use faux-Brit affectations will be the first beheaded when I am emporer.
posted by jonmc at 8:01 AM on August 10, 2008
It quite clear to me that one is a donkey the other is a bottom.
You're denying yourself some very nice wordplay, you know, in differentiating between the two.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 8:42 AM on August 10, 2008
You're denying yourself some very nice wordplay, you know, in differentiating between the two.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 8:42 AM on August 10, 2008
I open the Metatalk thread and somehow I find an open tab with Punch 'Em In The Dick in my browser. It's almost as if the site knows what i want!
posted by ersatz at 8:44 AM on August 10, 2008
posted by ersatz at 8:44 AM on August 10, 2008
jonmc Americans who use faux-Brit affectations will be the first beheaded when I am emporer.
Lighten up jon, with so many youths in europe affecting us gangsta culture in imitation of their hip-hop idols I'm sure the US can stand some influence from another country, be it just their culturally closest sibling; the UK.
Another way of thinking about it is that it's rather common in europe to meet people who are enamored of a different country; Italy, the UK, France, scandinavia. People like to go there on travel, use expressions from that country, eat food from the country, listen to its music, read its literature.
I think that's nice.
Of course I'm not from the US nor from the UK so I can only guess but I think it's perceived snobbery you're reacting to in americans using britishisms.
when you're emperor, what will you do with your voice-of-the-common-man persona?
posted by jouke at 9:32 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Lighten up jon, with so many youths in europe affecting us gangsta culture in imitation of their hip-hop idols I'm sure the US can stand some influence from another country, be it just their culturally closest sibling; the UK.
Another way of thinking about it is that it's rather common in europe to meet people who are enamored of a different country; Italy, the UK, France, scandinavia. People like to go there on travel, use expressions from that country, eat food from the country, listen to its music, read its literature.
I think that's nice.
Of course I'm not from the US nor from the UK so I can only guess but I think it's perceived snobbery you're reacting to in americans using britishisms.
when you're emperor, what will you do with your voice-of-the-common-man persona?
posted by jouke at 9:32 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Lighten up jon, with so many youths in europe affecting us gangsta culture in imitation of their hip-hop idols I'm sure the US can stand some influence from another country, be it just their culturally closest sibling; the UK.
It's a bee in my bonnet, jouke. Young Americans who wouldn't be caught dead at a MLB or NFL game (would deride it as nationalistic jock foolishness, even) who love rugby and soccer, because since it's European, it's all cultural and stuff. I'm definitely more irked at it than I should be but it's still annoying.
posted by jonmc at 9:40 AM on August 10, 2008
It's a bee in my bonnet, jouke. Young Americans who wouldn't be caught dead at a MLB or NFL game (would deride it as nationalistic jock foolishness, even) who love rugby and soccer, because since it's European, it's all cultural and stuff. I'm definitely more irked at it than I should be but it's still annoying.
posted by jonmc at 9:40 AM on August 10, 2008
Arguably, one of the nice things about watching a sport that's popular outside the US is that you don't have to fucking hear about it every minute of the day from every asshole who ever figured out how to use a remote control to find ESPN.
This is mostly a theoretical position on my part, since I don't actually pay attention to soccer either, but there may be some collateral damage that comes with a "like soccer/rubgy = euro-wannabe cultural posing" worldview.
Not that there aren't a million kinds of poseurs out there, granted. But there's also ten million guys who are willing to unselfconsciously remind you that as dumb as Madden's color might be, he's actually better than average at bloviating re: the NFL. Etc. It's enough to keep someone from wanting to even wander into that conversational territory, whether they like the game or not.
Besides, "arse" is fun to say, and "bloody" is a pretty good intensifier. Also: wicked pissah, hella hella hella, cahn't get theah from heah, and bless your heart. Now pass me my fedora.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:58 AM on August 10, 2008
This is mostly a theoretical position on my part, since I don't actually pay attention to soccer either, but there may be some collateral damage that comes with a "like soccer/rubgy = euro-wannabe cultural posing" worldview.
Not that there aren't a million kinds of poseurs out there, granted. But there's also ten million guys who are willing to unselfconsciously remind you that as dumb as Madden's color might be, he's actually better than average at bloviating re: the NFL. Etc. It's enough to keep someone from wanting to even wander into that conversational territory, whether they like the game or not.
Besides, "arse" is fun to say, and "bloody" is a pretty good intensifier. Also: wicked pissah, hella hella hella, cahn't get theah from heah, and bless your heart. Now pass me my fedora.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:58 AM on August 10, 2008
cortex, I enjoy finding out about stuff from other cultures, too. Hell, I used to play soccer down at the Y when I was kid (although watching it bores me). It's more the "American Sports=corporate jock stupidity but Euro sports=way cool!" thing, as if all those English soccer players weren't gazillionaires, too.
/has Cyclones tickets for this afternoon and is feeling very American
posted by jonmc at 10:05 AM on August 10, 2008
/has Cyclones tickets for this afternoon and is feeling very American
posted by jonmc at 10:05 AM on August 10, 2008
jonmc: I understand the feeling. When I'm seeing Dutch boys dressed up like ghetto-gangstas I'm between annoyed and amused.
cortex: "Bloody arse", though, doesn't sound so great.
posted by jouke at 10:11 AM on August 10, 2008
cortex: "Bloody arse", though, doesn't sound so great.
posted by jouke at 10:11 AM on August 10, 2008
When I'm seeing Dutch boys dressed up like ghetto-gangstas I'm between annoyed and amused.
Heh. I actually saw some dude in Union Square a few weeks ago wearing baggy pants, a soiled wifebeater t-shirt, a handlebar moustache that adjoined muttonchop sideburns and a fucking derby hat. He looked about 21. I liked Gangs Of New York, too, man, but Good Lord. In big cities, it sometimes seems like people aren't wearing clothes, so much as costumes.
posted by jonmc at 10:14 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Heh. I actually saw some dude in Union Square a few weeks ago wearing baggy pants, a soiled wifebeater t-shirt, a handlebar moustache that adjoined muttonchop sideburns and a fucking derby hat. He looked about 21. I liked Gangs Of New York, too, man, but Good Lord. In big cities, it sometimes seems like people aren't wearing clothes, so much as costumes.
posted by jonmc at 10:14 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
While "arsey blood" sounds like something out of a black medical farce.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:14 AM on August 10, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:14 AM on August 10, 2008
When I'm seeing Dutch boys dressed up like ghetto-gangstas I'm between annoyed and amused.
Jeez, is nothing sacred?
posted by scody at 10:49 AM on August 10, 2008
Jeez, is nothing sacred?
posted by scody at 10:49 AM on August 10, 2008
The best thing about the $5 "entry fee" is that today I am walking to the drugstore in my little town to pick up a Western Union money transfer from Iceland that a new user without PayPal sent to me (I said I'd take $5-ish in local currency but he preferred to do it this way) for an account. This will make me a minor celebrity in town for several weeks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:18 AM on August 10, 2008 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:18 AM on August 10, 2008 [8 favorites]
Western Union
And then you send back $4.50 in change. I know this scam.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:31 AM on August 10, 2008 [4 favorites]
And then you send back $4.50 in change. I know this scam.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:31 AM on August 10, 2008 [4 favorites]
i can see my navel from here.
posted by quonsar at 11:51 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar at 11:51 AM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Arguably, one of the nice things about watching a sport that's popular outside the US is that you don't have to fucking hear about it every minute of the day from every asshole who ever figured out how to use a remote control to find ESPN.
Man, I loves me some bicycle racing. Ever since that dude with the cancer and the multiple hot girlfriends retired, it's gone back to relatively quiet obscurity. Except for the drugs part. The real reason I love it so is for its Euro complications and arcane rules that are too complicated for Americans to understand. Culture!
The thought that I could have invested that five bucks and have earned six or eight cents in interest in that time kills me sometimes.
posted by fixedgear at 12:10 PM on August 10, 2008
Man, I loves me some bicycle racing. Ever since that dude with the cancer and the multiple hot girlfriends retired, it's gone back to relatively quiet obscurity. Except for the drugs part. The real reason I love it so is for its Euro complications and arcane rules that are too complicated for Americans to understand. Culture!
The thought that I could have invested that five bucks and have earned six or eight cents in interest in that time kills me sometimes.
posted by fixedgear at 12:10 PM on August 10, 2008
I think it's a pretty safe bet that Jon will never be an emporer... or a common man.
At the same time, I'll never be an American again, so I guess we're even.
posted by chuckdarwin at 12:23 PM on August 10, 2008
At the same time, I'll never be an American again, so I guess we're even.
posted by chuckdarwin at 12:23 PM on August 10, 2008
The thought that I could have invested that five bucks and have earned six or eight cents in interest in that time kills me sometimes.
Along Reddit-flavored Ronpaulian lines, I wonder what $5 in gold bought in 2004 would be worth now.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:23 PM on August 10, 2008
Along Reddit-flavored Ronpaulian lines, I wonder what $5 in gold bought in 2004 would be worth now.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:23 PM on August 10, 2008
> Thank you. Americans who use faux-Brit affectations will be the first beheaded when I am emporer.
Sorry, I was actually becoming acculturated to "shite" but I'll revert at once.
posted by jfuller at 12:48 PM on August 10, 2008
Sorry, I was actually becoming acculturated to "shite" but I'll revert at once.
posted by jfuller at 12:48 PM on August 10, 2008
I was actually becoming acculturated to "shite" but I'll revert at once.
Bollocks. It's a great word. Don't let anyone tell you what you can and cannot say.
posted by chuckdarwin at 12:55 PM on August 10, 2008
Bollocks. It's a great word. Don't let anyone tell you what you can and cannot say.
posted by chuckdarwin at 12:55 PM on August 10, 2008
i can see my navel from here.
A. That isn't your navel.
B. Put on some pants.
posted by trondant at 1:15 PM on August 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
A. That isn't your navel.
B. Put on some pants.
posted by trondant at 1:15 PM on August 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
American Sports=corporate jock stupidity but Euro sports=way cool!
I'm now imagining hip New York scenesters claiming to be distantly related to a Milwall F-Troop head, trading in their skinny jeans fro Lois cords and swapping their fixed wheel bicycles for two Stanley blades superglued to a two pence piece.
posted by jack_mo at 1:29 PM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm now imagining hip New York scenesters claiming to be distantly related to a Milwall F-Troop head, trading in their skinny jeans fro Lois cords and swapping their fixed wheel bicycles for two Stanley blades superglued to a two pence piece.
posted by jack_mo at 1:29 PM on August 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
JDHarper: ""Median age may be too high?"That's exactly why I like MeFi so much. It feels like this place is full of grown-ups."
About 50% of it is the grown-ups. The rest is the people who, despite reaching an advanced age, refuse to grow up. They're my favourites.
posted by dg at 2:11 PM on August 10, 2008
About 50% of it is the grown-ups. The rest is the people who, despite reaching an advanced age, refuse to grow up. They're my favourites.
posted by dg at 2:11 PM on August 10, 2008
I lived in the UK (just outside of Cambridge) for almost five years in the early 1970's and we've gone back every couple years since. I almost never heard "arse" or "shite" outside of Scotland.
And then in late 1980's and early nineties I started hearing stuff like that more and more in and around London and on the media mostly from younger people. Frankly I think it's some what of an 'affectation' in the UK, too.
Like "Motherfucker" in the US. I mean you heard it. But it was a bomb. Rare and powerful. And then after Samuel L. Jackson suddenly you hear it around the water cooler at work to describe shopping at the GAP.
posted by tkchrist at 4:38 PM on August 10, 2008
And then in late 1980's and early nineties I started hearing stuff like that more and more in and around London and on the media mostly from younger people. Frankly I think it's some what of an 'affectation' in the UK, too.
Like "Motherfucker" in the US. I mean you heard it. But it was a bomb. Rare and powerful. And then after Samuel L. Jackson suddenly you hear it around the water cooler at work to describe shopping at the GAP.
posted by tkchrist at 4:38 PM on August 10, 2008
tkchrist - Screw you Chaucer, you pretentious fuck.
(Though, to be fair, his spelling is atrocious and he could have meant anything)
posted by Artw at 5:20 PM on August 10, 2008
(Though, to be fair, his spelling is atrocious and he could have meant anything)
posted by Artw at 5:20 PM on August 10, 2008
I wonder what $5 in gold bought in 2004 would be worth now.
*clickity-google*
Based on August 2004 prices, $5 of gold would get you about 11.25 now. Interestingly though, $5 of silver is now $12.30, and $5 of copper is about $13.50 today. They don't call Ron Paul crazy for nothing.
posted by bonehead at 6:32 PM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
*clickity-google*
Based on August 2004 prices, $5 of gold would get you about 11.25 now. Interestingly though, $5 of silver is now $12.30, and $5 of copper is about $13.50 today. They don't call Ron Paul crazy for nothing.
posted by bonehead at 6:32 PM on August 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
i can see my navel from here.
Is there anything in it? Some sort of aquatic macrofauna? Lint? Lara Flynn Boyle?
posted by Mister_A at 6:32 PM on August 10, 2008
Is there anything in it? Some sort of aquatic macrofauna? Lint? Lara Flynn Boyle?
posted by Mister_A at 6:32 PM on August 10, 2008
Lara. Flynn. Boyle.
Almost fell off my intern when I read that.
posted by Dizzy at 7:20 PM on August 10, 2008
Almost fell off my intern when I read that.
posted by Dizzy at 7:20 PM on August 10, 2008
I'm back from the Cyclones game, we won 6-5 in extra innings. Sandy the Seagull was running around entertaining people. A little girl ran after him yell 'Oooh! Chicken!' There was a roughly 900-year old woman sitting across the aisle from us, I think she expected Roy Campanella to appear at any moment.
posted by jonmc at 8:41 PM on August 10, 2008
posted by jonmc at 8:41 PM on August 10, 2008
Appropriate mascot. The first thing I think of when talking about cyclones is seagulls.
posted by netbros at 9:34 PM on August 10, 2008
posted by netbros at 9:34 PM on August 10, 2008
netbros: the Cyclones play at Keyspan Park on Coney Island, right by the beach, hence the seagulls.
posted by jonmc at 9:42 PM on August 10, 2008
posted by jonmc at 9:42 PM on August 10, 2008
Does Sandy dun all the kids for bread crumbs and Doritos?
posted by netbros at 9:48 PM on August 10, 2008
posted by netbros at 9:48 PM on August 10, 2008
Not to mention, the Cyclones have nothing to do with weather...
posted by pupdog at 1:52 AM on August 11, 2008
posted by pupdog at 1:52 AM on August 11, 2008
American sports = endless timeouts and commercials.
Rugby / soccer = two 45-minute halves.
Too bad, though, about the soccer having no scoring and ending after multiple overtimes on the equivalent of rock-paper-scissors.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:22 AM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Rugby / soccer = two 45-minute halves.
Too bad, though, about the soccer having no scoring and ending after multiple overtimes on the equivalent of rock-paper-scissors.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:22 AM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
WCityMike writes "Going back to a system where we measure agreement by the quality of follow-up responses seems richer, somehow."
If we did that, we'd get "filler" responses of "yes, I agree" or "great post/comment". A favorite is just a much more compact shorthand for this, resulting in a more substantive thread.
posted by orthogonality at 6:20 PM on August 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
If we did that, we'd get "filler" responses of "yes, I agree" or "great post/comment". A favorite is just a much more compact shorthand for this, resulting in a more substantive thread.
posted by orthogonality at 6:20 PM on August 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
good point.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:59 PM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:59 PM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
What orthogonality said.
posted by grouse at 10:40 PM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by grouse at 10:40 PM on August 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
grouse and Ubu, I am in complete agreement with your championing and echoing orthogonality's point regarding this matter.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:44 PM on August 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:44 PM on August 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
Oh, and Pope Guilty: good move, favoriting orthogonality's comment, bro.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:46 PM on August 11, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:46 PM on August 11, 2008
I think it's safe to say that orthogonality, grouse, flapjax, the Pope & I are in agreement.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:56 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:56 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:14 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:14 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd have to disagree with that, Joseph. Nonetheless, I'm favoriting your comment.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:25 AM on August 12, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:25 AM on August 12, 2008
I'm silently depressing the + widget in my heart.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:41 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:41 AM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
As Tom Regan said to Bernie Birnbaum in Miller's Crossing, just before putting a bullet in his forehead: "What heart?"
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:11 AM on August 12, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:11 AM on August 12, 2008
As the Abbot said to the monk, "twenty bucks, same as in town."
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:36 AM on August 12, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:36 AM on August 12, 2008
Oh, and Pope Guilty: good move, favoriting orthogonality's comment, bro.
It seemed apropos.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:55 AM on August 12, 2008
It seemed apropos.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:55 AM on August 12, 2008
dev09 1 point 3 hours ago[-]
What about MetaTalk, the back channel?
That's what they use to talk about us!
http://metatalk.metafilter.com/16594/911-was-an-inside-job
Unity achieved. Phase 2 is go. Power up the Cardosobot and prepare for Haugheycaust.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:25 PM on August 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
What about MetaTalk, the back channel?
That's what they use to talk about us!
http://metatalk.metafilter.com/16594/911-was-an-inside-job
Unity achieved. Phase 2 is go. Power up the Cardosobot and prepare for Haugheycaust.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:25 PM on August 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
And today they discover how to dispose of a body. I don't think this deserves its own MeTa thread, but I bet it'll get one.
posted by Plutor at 4:41 AM on September 4, 2008
posted by Plutor at 4:41 AM on September 4, 2008
give them another four years & they'll discover the meta thread, too.
there's a reason the site is called 'reddit'.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:04 AM on September 4, 2008
there's a reason the site is called 'reddit'.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:04 AM on September 4, 2008
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by mullacc at 10:07 AM on August 9, 2008 [2 favorites]