Stunty McStuntster October 22, 2008 7:58 PM   Subscribe

Yes, this stunt post was a bad idea...

...but I felt it was just in light of the absolutely not-FPP-worthiness of this post.

And I knew that mine would likely be deleted.

But come on. I'm no newbie. I've been here at MeFi for a long time. I know what's good and what's -filter. And posting a few images - no matter how good they might be - is REALLY stretching "Best Of The Web."

Look, I know I'm in the minority here at MeFi. Not liberal. Not Democrat. Not progressive. But I'm not exactly a McCain fan, either.

But the level of worship here of The One is astounding. And to be honest - really - I'm OK with that. I know where MeFi stands, mostly.

I was just trying to inject a tiny wee-little bit of perspective with my admittedly bad and stunty FPP. And demonstrate how awesomely lame such an FPP is/was/will be.

Photo galleries as FPP? Eh. Maybe. But a photo gallery about a politician who is in the public eye as no one before in history (probably), both here and on the TV and on the radio and on blogs and on various filters, nearly every moment of every day, often accompanied by doe-eyed worship, and being photographed more than any other politician ever?

Come on.
posted by davidmsc to Etiquette/Policy at 7:58 PM (189 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

...and breathe.
posted by mandal at 8:03 PM on October 22, 2008


Really? Must we go MeTalk?
posted by Dumsnill at 8:07 PM on October 22, 2008


Look, I know I'm in the minority here at MeFi. Not liberal. Not Democrat. Not progressive. But I'm not exactly a McCain fan, either.

And as a pro-gay rights athiest, you're hardly the typical Free Republic conservative either, Dave. And a big chunk of the (admitted mostly left-leaning) MeFi readership of MeFi is not your stereotypical chardonnay-sipping New Yorker readers either. There's a lot of different viewpoints here, believe it or not. I can kind of see your point about that Obama post and kind of agree with it, but what you've done here is set yourself up as 'the defender of conservatism' here rather than give a more nuanced point of view, which is kind of a recipe for an oppositional situation. Just some advice froma guy who's known you for a while.
posted by jonmc at 8:10 PM on October 22, 2008 [6 favorites]


They were nice photos and it was a behind-the-scenes look at the campaign trail of the last two years for the guy. I thought it was a nice link and worthy of being here. In some weird way, it reminds me of that HBO documentary on following Bush around in 2000 during the campaign, where he's calm and relaxed and frankly he didn't seem like that bad of a guy.

I think you're overstating the awfulness or non-mefi-worthiness of the post, and I'm not saying it because I voted for the guy, but they were some pretty cool photos seen nowhere else.

We feature Big Picture posts all the time, this isn't that far off.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:18 PM on October 22, 2008 [7 favorites]


I still cannot see those Obama pictures!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


The Obama petting children post was creepy beyond belief. That said: Cortex tells me that stunt posts aren't so good.
posted by Dumsnill at 8:19 PM on October 22, 2008


my admittedly bad and stunty FPP.
So what's the MeTa post for? I don't get it.
posted by Airhen at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2008


Sigh. I know, everyone. And thanks, jonmc -- as always, your voice of reason is appreciated. Why can't everyone here be as smart as you, BTW?

But think: by simply including a link to the OTHER photo gallery on the Digital Journalist site -- the one featuring John McCain's "quieter" campaign moments -- it would have at least been a more (dare I say) balanced FPP. Not that I expect MeFi posters to be balanced -- but if the poster was going for "oh, cool, some behind-the-scenes photography of Presidential candidates," well, that would have been cool. Instead we got fairly standard "OMG OBAMA IS SO AWESOME!"

But that thread was great for the "obama walked across the lake and healed a swan" line.

cortex & crew: my apologies for the stunt. You know my track record, and that I try always to be civil and very non-stunty. I just briefly lost my control in a brief spasmic backlash against the Worship Of The One.

Chalk this up to pre-election hyperactivity.

Forgive?
posted by davidmsc at 8:25 PM on October 22, 2008 [5 favorites]


I want to say the Obamarotica photo post was a bit lame but, sadly, I posted in the GNR and Big Lots threads multiple times. Maybe it's just pre-election burnout but I'm totally getting the stunt post.
posted by MikeMc at 8:26 PM on October 22, 2008


Yeah, your stunt post was a shit way to make your point. You should have come here first. But I agree with you. I say this as a guy who's champing at the bit to vote for the big O -- the original post was framed not as "look at this great photograph collection," but "hey, look at these windows into his soul!" It's arguably a fan post, and one that doesn't stand up well on its own. I personally think both should have been deleted.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:26 PM on October 22, 2008


What's the MeTa post for?

Therapy.

Kidding. It's so that maybe a few folks can discuss the relative merits of photo-gallery FPPs, or the level of worship and/or vitriol in the campaign as it relates to subsequent FPPs.
posted by davidmsc at 8:27 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


Eh. Some of the responses to the Obama pictures post were creepy. The post itself was interesting, I thought. I mean where am I going to stumble across multiple collections of people's favorite pictures of an interesting subject -- other than a decent proportion of photography fpp's, that is, which means it's in good company.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:27 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


Sigh. I know, everyone. And thanks, jonmc -- as always, your voice of reason is appreciated. Why can't everyone here be as smart as you, BTW?

Most of them are smarter than me, and I'd bet good money (or at least a couple of doughnuts) that a pretty good portion of the site's readership would be interested in what a an intelligent athiest Conservative thinks about the curent political situation. Unfortunately, some of the more strident members have made it seem not so, which is a drag.

I'm happily voting for Obama on Election day and I think that the photo post was a bit fanboyish. But by doing this stunt post, you've kind of set yourself up as the whipping boy for everybody with an ax to grind. take it from somebody who's been ther. Not a good idea.
posted by jonmc at 8:32 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


Ah, Republican equivalency. See, Obama is a handsome, charismatic middle-aged dude. So WE MUST ALLOW PICTURES OF A WRINKLY OLD FART BECUZ HE'S JUST AS GOOD LOOKING.

Get bent.
posted by bardic at 8:35 PM on October 22, 2008 [5 favorites]


Will someone please stop writing "athiest", before I stop believing in Gød.
posted by Dumsnill at 8:36 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'm a lousy speller, Dumsnill. You knew what I meant.
posted by jonmc at 8:38 PM on October 22, 2008


I did.
posted by Dumsnill at 8:39 PM on October 22, 2008


See, Obama is a handsome, charismatic middle-aged dude.

So am I. Seriously. One "behind the scenes" with MikeMc photo post coming right up.
posted by MikeMc at 8:39 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


The Obama version of the post is adorned with a long-ass thread, which serves to ground that energy instead of having it infect all sorts of not-politically-related threads. Better off not deleted, I suppose.

That said, I think the stunt post should have remained. True, it's not a couple hundred posts long, but it would have provided another grounding point, and it would have been fair play.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2008


Just promise you'll shave. The mc family is notoriously slovenly.
posted by jonmc at 8:41 PM on October 22, 2008


Awesome post. I particularly liked the pic that was taken at the exact moment he was calling Cindy the c-word.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:43 PM on October 22, 2008


But the level of worship here of The One is astounding.

It may seem that way, but as a guy who will cast his vote come November for Obama, I can safely tell you I don't worship the fellow. I just kind of hope he'll do a good job if we give him the chance. Hell I would have voted for McCain of 4 years ago but I've got my reasons for not liking him much anymore. Anyway, yeah it can get kind of think in here.
posted by nola at 8:46 PM on October 22, 2008


"And posting a few images - no matter how good they might be - is REALLY stretching 'Best Of The Web.' "

Annoying as it is we actually do this all the time. Particular APOD images for example have been featured at least four times.

"But a photo gallery about a politician who is in the public eye as no one before in history (probably)"

Not even close I'd think. McCain, while involved in politics for a while has been only b-list at best until this last presidential run. Sticking just to politics you've got people like Margret Thatcher or Kim Jong-il. Non-politician Princess Diana was at least an order of magnitude higher if not two on the "in the public eye" scale.
posted by Mitheral at 8:49 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


But the level of worship here of The One is astounding.

I don't care either way about the original post or the stunt, but I hear you on this point. I've already voted against McCain via my state's early/absentee voting provision, so I'm not exactly anti-Obama. But I don't know why so many people here suspend their skepticism and reason when it comes to the guy. Democratic presidents have all pursued their share of fucked up policies, and after the honeymoon's over, he won't seem so adorable.
posted by Rykey at 8:50 PM on October 22, 2008


This callout has so many kinds of wrong:

But come on. I'm no newbie. I've been here at MeFi for a long time.

Pulling rank.

I know what's good and what's -filter.

More so than the rest of us, right?

And posting a few images - no matter how good they might be - is REALLY stretching "Best Of The Web."

Mistaking posting guidelines for rules.

Look, I know I'm in the minority here at MeFi. Not liberal. Not Democrat. Not progressive.

I was just trying to inject a tiny wee-little bit of perspective with my admittedly bad and stunty FPP. And demonstrate how awesomely lame such an FPP is/was/will be.

To use your own criteria, that is definitely *not* "best-of-the-web".


Axe-grinding and insulting other MeFites at the same time.

But the level of worship here of The One is astounding. And to be honest - really - I'm OK with that.

Nobody cares that I think Mulroney is the greatest prime minister in Canadian history, so why should anyone care that you're "ok" with their support for Obama?

Photo galleries as FPP? Eh. Maybe. But a photo gallery about a politician who is in the public eye as no one before in history (probably), both here and on the TV and on the radio and on blogs and on various filters, nearly every moment of every day, often accompanied by doe-eyed worship, and being photographed more than any other politician ever?

But this? This is gold. If you reposted your Meta callout, and stripped away everything (including your stunt post), you would be getting somewhere.

Because that Obama FPP you objected to sure does stink.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:53 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]


five fresh fish: "The Obama version of the post is adorned festooned with a long-ass thread, which serves to ground that energy instead of having it infect all sorts of not-politically-related threads. Better off not deleted, I suppose.

That said, I think the stunt post should have remained. True, it's not a couple hundred posts long, but it would have provided another grounding point, and it would have been fair play.
"

minor correction
posted by ponystyle at 8:53 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


Yeah, Chomsky has said a lot of stupid stuff, but vote for the lesser of two evils:

posted by Dumsnill at 8:56 PM on October 22, 2008


I think it was the same as the previous post, just a mirror image of it. I feel it was deleted because it would have required constant moderation (deletion of vile comments and links); and it would have reflected how we are in the middle of the most hateful election there has been for a long time. Irregardless of who wins, riots will occur. It is not going to be a unifying moment. Another too devisive election once again prevents any of the real "problems" facing the states from getting worked on. People will again focus on an Orwellianesque hate of the other side or perceived enemy.

Too much fire, matches and gasoline material; but it is still ok to have one party post left up and not the other? I mean, give McCain his FPP kudos for the sheer effort he has put into running again and again for the Presidency. Lincoln had to run several times before he made it; and you know, politicians that are similar to Lincoln are pretty cool now. I think they both should have been taken down at the same time out of fairness.
posted by buzzman at 9:00 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


Just promise you'll shave. The mc family is notoriously slovenly.

Perhaps a little "manscaping" is in order.
posted by MikeMc at 9:01 PM on October 22, 2008


Axe-grinding and insulting other MeFites at the same time.

Grounds for a timeout.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:02 PM on October 22, 2008


We love Obama so damn much that after months of election posts, someone only made a Barack Obama sockpuppet today.
posted by Tehanu at 9:07 PM on October 22, 2008


And I knew that mine would likely be deleted.

So, you knew the rules and decided to buck them anyway, knowing that someone else would clean up your mess?

What are you, nine years old?

BURN THE HOBBITSSES!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:15 PM on October 22, 2008


I still cannot see those Obama pictures!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero


Yeah, they didn't work on IE on Windows at my office. They work fine on my MacBook with Safari at home. Others in the thread have the same problem, but I (obviously) have no clue what the common denominator is.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 9:18 PM on October 22, 2008


Forgive?

Always.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:19 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]




I feel it was deleted because it would have required constant moderation (deletion of vile comments and links)

Then the MeFi back-end needs a way to close blue threads to comments. The preference for Obamariffic posts to the exclusion of equivalent Grandpa President posts is rather distasteful. The links are worthy: the thread should be killed.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:31 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


Thanks, luv.

And I appreciate the discussion here. It's heartening to know that there at least a few others who understood what I was doing, and why.

Oh, and btw -- jonmc, did you know that I retired from the military and now sport a beard? Mebbe I can be part of the mc tribe!
posted by davidmsc at 9:34 PM on October 22, 2008


the most hateful election there has been for a long time

I agree. It's a shame Obama and his supporters keep calling or dog-whistling that Palin/McCain are "black Islamofascist socialist terrorists."
posted by bardic at 9:37 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


It wasn't a great post but it was a decent post. The same way, the same exact way really, that a lot of the "Hey Apple has some new gear..." posts aren't great. They tend to exist and get comments and attention because they appeal to a large amount of the userbase here.

And the problem, just like with the Apple posts, is that the people who they do NOT appeal to feel that they're fawning, fanboyish and Not Of General Interest. This is when we have to say that blogs are not the news, this blog isn't supposed to be a news blog, there's absolutely no, zero, nada reason to be balanced, what we ask is that you not be axe-grindy and you try to think how your post will appeal to people who aren't as excited about topic x as you are. And we ask people who don't agree not to shit in threads, make stunt posts and otherwise act out.

This is really no big deal, and I understand why you were bummed out, but this is really the time of year when it's tough to not be part of sort of the dominant (if I may be so bold) political vibe here. As a fervent anti-capitalist, I really don't think Obama is going to do much about my pet issues and I despair with all this ZOMG SECOND COMING talk. That said, it's not exclusively my party here. Non-Americans have to deal with this vibe every day here it seems like so I try to use this sort of thing to remember that too and try to post more neat stuff on the web and less narrow-issue flash in the pan news stuff generally. To each their own, but that's my takeaway from all this.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2008 [5 favorites]


About 15 years ago, at the Frostee Friendz Ice Cream Emporium & Jelly Belly Warehouse in suburban Phoenix, I personally witnessed a completely oblivious John McCain drip his Chunky Monkey with sprinkles onto the counter three times.

At that moment, I knew he would never become president.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 9:41 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]


Washington dove into the icy waters of the Delaware to retrieve the remnants of the mint chocolate chip double scoop he accidentally dropped during the fateful crossing in 1776.
posted by Tehanu at 9:56 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]


I guess I'll have to ditch my post of Stephen Harper artistic nude portraits.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:04 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


Lyndon Johnson ordered his ice cream in custom eighteen-inch cones, to intimidate his numerous enemies.
posted by ormondsacker at 10:17 PM on October 22, 2008 [4 favorites]


Dolly Madison practically invented that shit.
posted by bardic at 10:18 PM on October 22, 2008


Yo dudes, check out these wicked snaps of a spider eating a fucking bird.
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:20 PM on October 22, 2008 [5 favorites]


I guess I'll have to ditch my post of Stephen Harper artistic nude portraits.

*cocks a shotgun*

Goddamn right you will, son.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:22 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]


Yo dudes, check out these wicked snaps of a spider eating a fucking bird.

I see your bird and raise you a snake!
posted by Lemurrhea at 10:34 PM on October 22, 2008


"Cock" is something one does to a pistol. One "shucks" a shotgun.
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:34 PM on October 22, 2008


Also if everyone could ignore the innuendo on that last sentence it would be awesome.
posted by Lemurrhea at 10:34 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


I worship Obama. There. I said it. I sacrifice birds to him. Chickens, mostly, but an occasional finch or starling. I have a shrine to Obama in my bedroom, with a statue of him I have fashioned out of wax and a hair clipping I am told was taken from Barack. I improvise songs in Creole and ply the effigy with rum and spiced candies, and bid it to do my doing. Sometimes groups of us dance naked around the Obama shrine to the insistent tattoo of a tribal drum, and then, smeared in chicken's blood, we have a profane orgy. Obama finds things I have lost, he heals my illness, he protects my possessions, and he curses my enemies. Obama makes women fall in love with me, and gives me the sexual stamina of a goat. Obama sends money my way, and makes me bulletproof. Obama appears before us in the clothes of an undertaker, smoking a cigar, and brings the dead back to life, and army of the undead that even now wait for their orders.

Obama is not God. Obama is better than God, because God is distant and strange. Obama calls us at night and sings us to sleep with songs of hope. And we will all worship him one day, or he will kill those that deny him with a sword made from the spine of John McCain.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:37 PM on October 22, 2008 [36 favorites]


I thought you pumped them?

AMIRITE?
posted by bardic at 10:37 PM on October 22, 2008


KokuRyu: Nobody cares that I think Mulroney is the greatest prime minister in Canadian history

Really? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind that.
posted by Kattullus at 10:38 PM on October 22, 2008


Also if everyone could ignore the innuendo on that last sentence it would be awesome.

"In-ya-what"?

LOL :D
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:38 PM on October 22, 2008


Not liberal. Not Democrat. Not progressive.

I try not to define myself with mere adjectives and yet some have called me a god damned liberal, progressive (democrat doesn't mean the same thing in Canada). Even so, I felt it was pretty lame post ... except it did expose something REAL that I would not otherwise have seen so nakedly; specifically, the troubling, uncritical adoration that many reasonably intelligent people have for Obama ("my idol" etc). This is frightening. Suddenly I'm thinking he's more likely to be taken out by a disgruntled true believer than a god-fearing racist bigot.

Nobody cares that I think Mulroney is the greatest prime minister in Canadian history,

I certainly care, KokuRyu ... and I fear for your conservative, unprogressive soul.
posted by philip-random at 10:44 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


mathowieAdmin: "4They were nice photos and it was a behind-the-scenes look at the campaign trail of the last two years for the guy. I thought it was a nice link and worthy of being here. In some weird way, it reminds me of that HBO documentary on following Bush around in 2000 during the campaign, where he's calm and relaxed and frankly he didn't seem like that bad of a guy.

I think you're overstating the awfulness or non-mefi-worthiness of the post, and I'm not saying it because I voted for the guy, but they were some pretty cool photos seen nowhere else.

We feature Big Picture posts all the time, this isn't that far off.
"

Exactly
posted by Rafaelloello at 10:51 PM on October 22, 2008


Forgive?

Always.


Makes plans.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:59 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]


We don't have it all that bad. On the whole. (Link to photos.)
posted by five fresh fish at 11:00 PM on October 22, 2008


turgid dahlia writes "'Cock' is something one does to a pistol. One 'shucks' a shotgun."

One only shucks pumps. Single shot and double barrel shotguns without hammerless cocking mechanisms still require cocking to fire. Hammerless systems of course cock when you break the gun open so while technically cockable no one says they are cocking the gun when breaking it open.
posted by Mitheral at 11:04 PM on October 22, 2008


Really? I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind that.

He didn't specify greatest what, though. I can imagine definitions of "greatest", to which I'd have to agree are appropriately applied to Mulroney. None of those definitions has a positive connotation.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:04 PM on October 22, 2008


Yo dudes, check out these wicked snaps of a spider eating a fucking bird.

Dude, I was expecting necro-avian porn! Blatant false advertising! I liked the happy spider though.
posted by h00py at 11:09 PM on October 22, 2008


It seemed like an interesting post, but I am against non-elephant related stuntery. And response posts remind me of those Youtube 'This is a video response to... ', which make me want to hurt people.

Nobody cares that I think Mulroney is the greatest prime minister in Canadian history

I care, and would almost agree; Mulroney laid much of the groundwork for the Liberal's success in the '90s, namely NAFTA and the GST.

But I sure do hate that schmuck son of his.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:10 PM on October 22, 2008


It wasn't a great post but it was a decent post. The same way, the same exact way really, that a lot of the "Hey Apple has some new gear..."

BaMac Obama!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:16 PM on October 22, 2008


I'm headed to Nevada Friday night to canvass for Obama.

And I just flagged that crap post. I have seen more than enough photos of Obama, and blatant propaganda for either side without even a cursory attempt at balance just doesn't belong here.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:24 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


the troubling, uncritical adoration that many reasonably intelligent people have for Obama ("my idol" etc).

Really. The election is pretty much over. My question is, when we wake up on January 16, who is going to get on President Obama's back about the things that matter? Will anyone take him to task on FISA? Will anyone ask him what he hopes to accomplish by taking our troops out of an Iraqi quagmire to drop them into an Afghani one? That's what I'm worried about right now, far more than sad old fake Maverick or pathetic Caribou Barbie.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:28 PM on October 22, 2008


jessamynAdmin: "39It wasn't a great post but it was a decent post. The same way, the same exact way really, that a lot of the "Hey Apple has some new gear..." posts aren't great. They tend to exist and get comments and attention because they appeal to a large amount of the userbase here.

And the problem, just like with the Apple posts, is that the people who they do NOT appeal to feel that they're fawning, fanboyish and Not Of General Interest. This is when we have to say that blogs are not the news, this blog isn't supposed to be a news blog, there's absolutely no, zero, nada reason to be balanced, what we ask is that you not be axe-grindy and you try to think how your post will appeal to people who aren't as excited about topic x as you are. And we ask people who don't agree not to shit in threads, make stunt posts and otherwise act out.

This is really no big deal, and I understand why you were bummed out, but this is really the time of year when it's tough to not be part of sort of the dominant (if I may be so bold) political vibe here. As a fervent anti-capitalist, I really don't think Obama is going to do much about my pet issues and I despair with all this ZOMG SECOND COMING talk. That said, it's not exclusively my party here. Non-Americans have to deal with this vibe every day here it seems like so I try to use this sort of thing to remember that too and try to post more neat stuff on the web and less narrow-issue flash in the pan news stuff generally. To each their own, but that's my takeaway from all this.
"

I'm concerned about this. I had no idea that Non-Americans were feeling pain over this, and every day for Christ's sake. Awful.

What can we all do to help?
posted by Rafaelloello at 11:28 PM on October 22, 2008


Also, the first photo is a cover of Time magazine. That's something "quiet and powerful" that can't be seen anywhere else? Really?
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:30 PM on October 22, 2008


Hey I thought the stunt post was funny. And as much I liked the photos of Obama I wasn't sure they were worth an FPP.

But mostly I am looking forward to the spread of the "Powerful, quiet photos of ..." meme across the internets.
posted by awfurby at 11:34 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


I would not otherwise have seen so nakedly; specifically, the troubling, uncritical adoration that many reasonably intelligent people have for Obama ("my idol" etc).

How many people in that thread said that? Two? No, actually I went and checked. One person.

It's more troubling to me that anyone would earnestly consider one person to represent the viewpoints of "many" and hyperbolically wring their hands over something that doesn't actually seem to be a verifiable or even reasonable assertion, particularly when we actually have a wealth of reality based issues to be concerned about.

Even if 500 people showed up in that thread to worship Obama that would be .00625 percent of 80,000 users. Which doesn't even remotely count as a statistically significant threat to rationality.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:38 PM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]


Nobody cares that I think Mulroney is the greatest prime minister in Canadian history, so why should anyone care that you're "ok" with their support for Obama?

I care. I care. And you just broke my heart.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:41 PM on October 22, 2008


What can we all do to help?

We can post links to Interesting Things on the Web that have appeal that is broader than this damned election, imo. I'm aware that the impacts of this election are broader than just what happens in the US, but I sort of like how a lot of cool stuff on the web gets people from all different places and ages to sort of come together and say "huh, neat" or whatever the hell.

Then again maybe you're just making fun of me, but I don't see any shame in being sincere.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:45 PM on October 22, 2008 [6 favorites]


What can we all do to help?

You can go to your Edit Profile page, scroll to the bottom and click the link beneath Export Your Comments.

Further instructions will be forthcoming.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:54 PM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


Even if 500 people showed up in that thread to worship Obama that would be .00625 percent of 80,000 users. Which doesn't even remotely count as a statistically significant threat to rationality.

Point taken. I bow to your math, sort of. For the record, what initially bugged me was seeing the single "idolize" quote favorited 10 times. Also, the context I put it in was "idol etc" ... meant to include such other hyperbole as "I want him to win so much it hurts" (25 favorites) and so on. I guess I just found the almost complete lack of snark ... disconcerting. This is MetaFilter after all.
posted by philip-random at 11:57 PM on October 22, 2008


I teared up for real, more than once, at the original post.

I laughed for real at the stunt post and felt somehow relieved by it. The emotions generated by this upcoming event can be overwhelming. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one uneasy about that.
posted by arcanecrowbar at 12:03 AM on October 23, 2008


I care. I care. And you just broke my heart.

Oh, shit, now I feel kind of cruddy. Okay, let's see:

- Broad tent coalition that included Quebec?

Check

- Implemented progressive tax (GST)?

Check

- Brokered Free Trade with the US and thereby guaranteed Canadian prosperity for a generation?

Check

- Tried twice to add Quebec's signature to the Constitution?

Check

Okay, maybe not as great as Sir John A (another great Conservative), but, hey, not a bad record.

But, then again, I was wrong on housing prices. So very wrong.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:16 AM on October 23, 2008


Oh, shit, now I feel kind of cruddy.

No, don't, man. It's all good. I was only (mostly) joking.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:35 AM on October 23, 2008


I bet Obama's a Mac guy and McCain's staffers are all Windows people though. Obama would totally love all the Mac posts on Metafilter.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:05 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Keep telling yourself "it's only a website, it's only a website, it's only a website...."
posted by telstar at 1:18 AM on October 23, 2008


Am I the only one that seems to notice Obama is black?

Yeah. I must be. I assumed that that was a big part of the reason people were kinda excited about the guy. Oh. I get it. You all don't see race.

Let me break it down.

Being elected of the most powerful nation on the planet (at least in terms of warheads) is one thing.

But being a black guy elected president of a country that used to enslave, routinely lynch, impoverish and treat like sub-humans black people for a couple hundred years IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL.

And BTW, keeping with my pissy sarcastic net persona, I snarked in that thread. Which was a poor post. But still. People have ever right to be excited about Obama.

Psssst. He's still black.
posted by tkchrist at 1:25 AM on October 23, 2008


He's only half black, and talks like any other midwestern politician. Call me when someone who speaks AAVE gets within earshot of a major party ticket.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:06 AM on October 23, 2008


But being a black guy elected president of a country that used to enslave, routinely lynch, impoverish and treat like sub-humans black people for a couple hundred years IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL.

I actually keep forgetting he's black. It just doesn't seem that big of a deal, anymore. I mean we currently have a black Secretary of State. Why isn't that a "big fucking deal"?
posted by vacapinta at 2:18 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Isn't he an Arab?
posted by dg at 2:18 AM on October 23, 2008


I really should have pulled the trigger on "Powerful, quiet pictures of Quonsar", because I do agree that neither one of them are BotW.

I doubly agree about the worship factor. In fact, I'm worried about it, because in a year, I think it's going to be very dark in the Democratic Party when Obama hasn't, in fact, saved the Earth from the oncoming comet, found free energy, and risen the dead.

If we were going to keep one, we should have kept both.
posted by eriko at 2:48 AM on October 23, 2008


I'd like to take this moment to post a link to some powerful, quiet pictures of Axl Rose.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:16 AM on October 23, 2008


Yes, this stunt post was a bad idea...

Well, I liked it.
posted by robcorr at 3:31 AM on October 23, 2008


You know, Joey Michaels, that first pic, the (quiet, powerful) one of Axl's GNFNR tattoo fading over the years, makes this aaaaaaall worth it.
posted by dirtdirt at 3:36 AM on October 23, 2008


People have ever right to be excited about Obama.

People have every right to be excited about Kirk Cameron, too, but that doesn't make every peanut in his poo-poo a brush with the divine.
posted by Rykey at 3:48 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


There was a big meme in China last year of net posts idolising Wen Jiabao, a people's premier for the People's Republic. He got the cutesy nickname "Baobao" and there was something similar to the repaired shoes when it was spotted that Wen was wearing a jacket he'd had for ten years.
posted by Abiezer at 4:44 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


I bet Obama's a Mac guy and McCain's staffers are all Windows people though.

I like to think Obama is open source. Not the byzantine, build-everything-from-the-ground-up open source of Gentoo, mind you, but more along the lines of Mint, or even Parsix. And Ron Paul is still FreeDOS.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:24 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]




But the level of worship here of The One is astounding.

Lately, I've started to refer to Obama humorously as "The One." I've entirely picked that up from conservatives. If you all want to give Obama a nickname that will enter the history books like "Tricky Dick"or "The Great Communicator" it's okay with me. He could do worse than "The One."

("Still the One" will make an excellent campaign song in '12.)
posted by octobersurprise at 5:44 AM on October 23, 2008


Was this The One ad really put out by the McCain campaign? Incredible.
posted by vacapinta at 5:54 AM on October 23, 2008


Will someone please stop writing "athiest", before I stop believing in Gød.

Because no one's athier than you?
posted by electroboy at 5:57 AM on October 23, 2008


What can we all do to help?

Someone could fix the stupid autoquoting script so it doesn't say Admin next to mathowie's and jessamyn's names.
posted by smackfu at 6:03 AM on October 23, 2008


I got a lot out of the post you were calling out. I am an Obama supporter, but I think your supposition that Metafilter readers/posters are raving liberals is completely inaccurate. I've found Metafilter to be a very moderate these days.

On the other hand, I have also enjoyed other links I've found on the intarwebs (and possibly on the blue - or for me, white) to behind the scenes pics of other candidates, even ones I haven't voted for or wanted to vote for. It's just interesting.

Also, I agree with others who've said that in this MeTa post, you're really setting yourself up for folks with long memories remembering you as the defender of conservatism, a mantle which I personally would not want.
posted by kalessin at 6:05 AM on October 23, 2008


"'Cock' is something one does to a pistol. One 'shucks' a shotgun."

Most people I know say "racks" for semiauto pistols and pump shotgun. Shucks usually only comes up when you jam it up by not fully working the pump action, referred to as "shortshucking".
posted by electroboy at 6:08 AM on October 23, 2008


"shortshucking"

Midget porn?
posted by bardic at 6:17 AM on October 23, 2008


Someone could fix the stupid autoquoting script so it doesn't say Admin next to mathowie's and jessamyn's names.

No, leave it. It helps me out a lot. If someone can't be bothered to clean that shit up I'm pretty sure their comments are going to be pretty ignorable, and this way I know right off.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:17 AM on October 23, 2008


> We feature Big Picture posts all the time, this isn't that far off.

Those are hardly great posts though (IMO). We know about the Big Picture by now, linking to every other post there... meh.
posted by bjrn at 6:22 AM on October 23, 2008


People have every right to be excited about Kirk Cameron, too, but that doesn't make every peanut in his poo-poo a brush with the divine.

Actually, everything associated with Kirk Cameron is a brush with the divine.

Especially his bananas.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:27 AM on October 23, 2008


The Obama post was shitty. But then, I'm not a fan of photo gallery FPPs (maybe I've been burned by shitty flash navigation too many times?) and I'm not a fan of idolatry. Obama? Eh, he's growing on me since the debates, but I'm still not expecting much out of his administration.
posted by Eideteker at 6:28 AM on October 23, 2008


actually, the 'best of the web' stuff, which seems to be a long parade of art and in-jokes for the most part (interesting history and science posts aside) is a side-dish to My Metafilter, The Best Politics Blog On The Internets. :)
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2008


Obama would totally love all the Mac posts on Metafilter.

McCain would totally love all the Microsoft adverts posts on Metafilter. etc.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2008


A mediocre FPP makes me think "meh, that wasn't so good," and then I forget about it.

An extended bitch session about the mediocrity of a FPP lowers my (normally very high) opinion of MeFi much more than the post itself.

ALSO MY FARTS ARE QUIET AND POWERFUL HURR HURR HURR
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:41 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Eh, he's growing on me since the debates, but I'm still not expecting much out of his administration.

There was a time I didn't believe, but then I opened up my heart to him and saw the light.

You will too, Brother.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:48 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


So we've resorted to fart jokes.

Two blokes (Japanese and American) are playing golf. The Japanese guy is getting ready to tee off and suddenly starts talking to his thumb.

American bloke says: "What you doin?"

"Oh, don't worry, with micro-technology I have a microphone in my thumb. I was just recording a message."

The 2 men carry on golfing, but all of a sudden the American man makes a funny sound, that amazingly sounds like a fart. The Japanese man looks over at him. 'Oh,' says the American. "Don't worry, I'm just receiving a fax."
posted by netbros at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2008


I just wanted to take a moment to say that every time a MetaTalk discussion stays civil, an angel gets its wings. I love you guys.
posted by mrmojoflying at 6:51 AM on October 23, 2008


Fuck you and your angel.
posted by smackfu at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2008


Pierre Trudeau FTW.
posted by Sailormom at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


I guess I'll have to ditch my post of Stephen Harper artistic nude portraits.

I originally read that as "Stephen Hawking" ...and then found myself quietly disappointed when comprehension set in.
posted by kittyprecious at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


I thought it was a crap post. The Obama post was was good because the photography is exceptional. If you looked for and posted a site that showed McCain and/or Palin is a different way, or an unusually beautiful way, it would be a good post. There might be a good post in Cindy McCain's charitable work. I'm no fan of hers, but there was a better response available than linking a Google search.

I think the Sedaris post is ElectionFilter & CrapFilter. SLNYP!=FPP I'll be surprised if it survives.
posted by theora55 at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2008


So what's this make, like four angels altogether?
posted by Mister_A at 7:11 AM on October 23, 2008


Hey why can't people use the ≠ instead of that clumsy != emoticon-looking thing. Get a real computer moran.
posted by Mister_A at 7:12 AM on October 23, 2008


Godspeed you Black Emperor Obama!
posted by blue_beetle at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2008


Your main link was a Google search. If you had found something similar to Shell's excellent photographs instead of a scattershot kitchen-sink piece of shit post, I would have had no problem with it, and I doubt the mods would either.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:17 AM on October 23, 2008


Fuck you and your angel.

Master says I shouldn't let this anger me. Master is wise and smells of cookies and sunshine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on October 23, 2008


Mister_A: "Hey why can't people use the ≠ instead of that clumsy != emoticon-looking thing?"

That'll never compile.
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


I actually keep forgetting he's black. It just doesn't seem that big of a deal, anymore.

My Spidey-sense is telling me that you are white and think that racism is ancient history. Christ. It's a big deal.

I mean we currently have a black Secretary of State. Why isn't that a "big fucking deal"?
posted by vacapinta at 2:18 AM on October 23


It is. But third in line to the Presidency is a far cry from the office itself. Also, it's an appointed position - it's not as if the anyone voted for her. So Ms. Rice being SoS says nothing about Americans in general and our bullshit, false assertions of "colorblindness."
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:23 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


vacapinta writes "Was this The One ad (YT: The One)really put out by the McCain campaign?"

Must be some of those secret messages to the base in there. Was that Micheal Moore on stage with him about half way through?
posted by Mitheral at 7:35 AM on October 23, 2008


So Ms. Rice being SoS says nothing about Americans in general and our bullshit, false assertions of "colorblindness."

But Chevron named an oil tanker after her. Racism is dead.

Pay no attention to the watermelon-and-chicken Obama food stamps printed by the Republican Party. America is colorblind.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:36 AM on October 23, 2008


My Spidey-sense is telling me that you are white and think that racism is ancient history. Christ. It's a big deal.

Might want to recalibrate it. I'm Mexican-American and have faced discrimination myself. I meant that to me, personally, it doesnt matter. That I keep forgetting he's black.

I was actually reading this article earlier. They have a choice quote from a West Virginia *Democrat*:

"I'm not voting for that n--, and I ain't no racist when I say that either."
posted by vacapinta at 7:40 AM on October 23, 2008


"There was a time I didn't believe, but then I opened up my heart to him and saw the light."

There was a time when I hoped that when Obama's in power and nothing much changes, folks will see that he's not the messiah. But folks of both parties are strong with cognitive dissonance (which is, I guess, how they let themselves be pigeonholed with black and white labels) and rationalization. It'll be the fault of the 40% GOP minority in the senate, or the previous administration (both parties love this one).

There was a time when I hoped that people would ask for more from their leaders, rather than settling for, "Hey, at least he's not Bush/Clinton/Reagan/Carter/Nixon/etc.!" We need leaders, not politicians. We need someone who kicks ass and takes names, not someone who forms an exploratory committee on whether or not to run for president. And I don't mean a "Decider"—but someone who's willing to make the tough decisions, not the easy ones. Someone who will tell the folks who whine about flag pins and such nonsense exactly where to go, and make them feel bad for not going there themselves. Someone with more convictions than connections. Someone worthy of the title of #1 public servant in the land.

Obama will do, but let's do better next time.
posted by Eideteker at 7:41 AM on October 23, 2008


Pay no attention to the watermelon-and-chicken Obama food stamps printed by the Republican Party.

Funnily enough, those Obama bucks? Yea, they were invented by a satire website.
The originator of Obama Bucks -- we'll call him Joe the Blogger -- is no stranger to the tasteless joke and the offensive image. Steeped in the scorched earth impudence of "South Park" and following in the irreverent footsteps of the Onion, Joe the Blogger's site has drawn scores of outraged comments for posts about dead Boy Scouts, Heath Ledger, genital odor and the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, which uses the N-word.

If Obama Bucks was going to draw much fire, Joe the Blogger always assumed it would be directed at him. To have the very Republicans he mocks misunderstand the satire and go up in flames for his work leaves him bemused.

"It’s horrible and funny at the same time" Joe the Blogger said. "I feel bad for the poor lady who did this, but how stupid do you have to be not to see the racial aspects?"
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2008


vacapinta: Are you unfamiliar with the history of the US Democratic Party? (1900-1928 are also pretty illustrative of the old divides.)
posted by Eideteker at 7:48 AM on October 23, 2008


Powerful, quiet pictures of cortex's evil twin

Oh. Him.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:49 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Hmm.

If it had not been automatically assumed it was a "stunt post", would it have still been deleted?

Also, how many "stunt posts" stay up every day? It's certainly not at all unusual to see "call and response" type FPPs.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:51 AM on October 23, 2008


Might want to recalibrate it. I'm Mexican-American and have faced discrimination myself. I meant that to me, personally, it doesnt matter. That I keep forgetting he's black.

It not mattering to you personally is very different than it not mattering to a lot of other people.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:58 AM on October 23, 2008


"But the level of worship here of The One is astounding."

The country - the whole frickin' country - is about to vote him into the Oval Office in a landslide. You do realize that right?

Enjoy the next four/eight years of being astounded at how everyone else can't understand that Obama is just an average black dude. Seriously. Have fun with that.
posted by Ragma at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2008


Also, how many "stunt posts" stay up every day? It's certainly not at all unusual to see "call and response" type FPPs.

We actually have a long history of removing posts that are more about call-and-response than about the merits of the stuff in the response post. It's not something we want to see bloom as a general rule.

I'm not a fan of the original post either, for what it's worth. I thought it pretty eh, but not outright terrible; I was pretty certain what the conversation inside was going to be like, but that conversation itself was at least kind of instructive and interesting rather than nasty, so that's something. It's the sort of post that I could give a toss for, and if the photos themselves weren't actually pretty damned nice work we would have tossed the thing outright, definitely.

If the stunt post had been superlative on the merits, I would have said "wait and post this in a bit so it doesn't come off as a stunt post", but with all respect to whatever core of good intention davidmsc was operating off when he put it up, the post was not quality work unless we're scoring for satire. A quick clone-job on an already eh post doesn't produce a better-than-eh post, generally speaking.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:14 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Powerful, quiet photo of the transatlantic backbone.

In some weird way, it reminds me of that HBO documentary on following Bush around in 2000 during the campaign, where he's calm and relaxed and frankly he didn't seem like that bad of a guy.

Fact of the day: That was by Alexandra Pelosi, Nancy's daughter. She's married to Michiel Vos, a Dutch US correspondent who doesn't suck. This is because he actually knows things.

That's it, love you, bye!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2008


Your favorite stunt post sucks. Seriously, stop the fucking stunt posts.
posted by iconomy at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2008


Powerful, quiet pictures of John McCain's house in Arizona.

Yet another reason not to vote for McCain: I don't want his horrendous decorating taste sullying the White House. You don't need to slap a picture frame on every inch of naked surface, John. Less is more.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 8:22 AM on October 23, 2008


I was just trying to inject a tiny wee-little bit of perspective with my admittedly bad and stunty FPP

No you weren't, you were being a dick. But I appreciate your apologizing for it.

As for the Obama post, I think it was a good one, not because I worship Obama (I don't, and I think a lot of people will be as disappointed with his administration as they were with Clinton's) but because they were excellent and revealing photographs. If you could look at those photos (I trust you actually did, rather than simply seeing "Obama photos" and freaking out) and think they were just random photos posted because We Love Obama Here, you haven't got a clue.
posted by languagehat at 8:23 AM on October 23, 2008


I like to think Obama is open source.

If he is, then he's BSD with a shiny, sexy, closed-source interface on top.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:31 AM on October 23, 2008


I'm not a fan of the original post either, for what it's worth. I thought it pretty eh, but not outright terrible;

OK, I *love* the Obama, and I've seen him a potential president for the last four or five years now, but I flagged the post. Not because it was terrible -- as you say, it was 'meh'.

But I flagged it because we've still got two more weeks to go, and if we allowed every 'meh' Obama post to go through, we might just as well give it up and rename the place Obamafilter or USPresidentialElectionFilter.

On this showing, I can't help but feel that all someone would need to do is combine Obama with a few lolcats and they'd have a surefire winner on their hands.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:41 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


all someone would need to do is combine Obama with a few lolcats and they'd have a surefire winner on their hands.

Damn you PeterMcDermott, damn you all the way to Lolbamaville.
posted by mandal at 8:51 AM on October 23, 2008


lolcats 4 obama
lolbama
Yes We Can Has

Etc. I'm pretty sure there was an actual FPP at some point that hit some of this, even, though I can't remember it specifically because of the PTSD.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:04 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


The country - the whole frickin' country - is about to vote him into the Oval Office in a landslide. You do realize that right?

Enjoy the next four/eight years of being astounded at how everyone else can't understand that Obama is just an average black dude. Seriously. Have fun with that.
posted by Ragma at 10:02 AM on October 23


You are either the most profound wit of our generation or else you make no sense.

In either case, can you demystify? I can't parse what you're saying for shit.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:19 AM on October 23, 2008


Those lols are meh. I guess all of our finest meme talents are still mining the rich ore of McCain's unfortunate debate photos.
posted by Tehanu at 9:21 AM on October 23, 2008




I thought it pretty eh, but not outright terrible; I was pretty certain what the conversation inside was going to be like, but that conversation itself was at least kind of instructive and interesting rather than nasty, so that's something.

I'm impressed at how the tone changed as the thread progressed. A few cautionary comments about "careful about that idolatry" and, miracle of miracles, most of the hyperbolic stuff ceased and we started to get a lot of thoughtful discussion along the lines of " ... okay, the good guys seem to have this thing in their pockets, what now? How do we bridge the gap between our admittedly too-high hopes for this guy and the political realities that will no doubt settle in?" This is key, I think. Political disappointment breeds cynicism about the process and I am seriously fearful that the American system can't take much more cynicism without pretty much imploding.

Interesting days ahead and I trust MetaFilter will do its bit to keep things on some kind of rational track. With occasional eruptions of snark, loathing and laughing at people, of course.
posted by philip-random at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Oh hey, thanks! Now I have the opening line for my novel:

It was quiet. Powerful quiet.
posted by Mister_A at 9:52 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


I liked the photos.
posted by Barack Obama at 10:04 AM on October 23, 2008


You look like a real dork in a few of them.
posted by Tehanu at 10:13 AM on October 23, 2008


I, too, thought the Obama photo post was lame, but since I had just sprained my ankle and wasn't going anywhere, I checked them out. By the time I was finished looking at the photos, my ankle was fine.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 10:15 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


Yeah, while you are here; I'll take my cut of the $700,000,000,000 bailout for myself. Figure 325,000,000 or so Americans, that will be $2,000. Keep the tip for yourself. Thanks!
posted by buzzman at 10:19 AM on October 23, 2008


- Implemented progressive tax (GST)?

Check


What??? The GST is a textbook example of a regressive tax. I mean, Mulroney wasn't the worst PM ever and I, for one, have benefited a lot from NAFTA, but he was hardly the best PM ever. Unless you mean best at destroying his own party from the inside out and opening the door to a much further right-wing party to come up on the Federal stage.
posted by GuyZero at 10:19 AM on October 23, 2008


It is. But third in line to the Presidency is a far cry from the office itself. Also, it's an appointed position - it's not as if the anyone voted for her. So Ms. Rice being SoS says nothing about Americans in general and our bullshit, false assertions of "colorblindness."

Yeah. That's what I was gonna say.

People don't forget that Obama is black. They forget what fucking country they live in and the history it has where it concerns black people.

More important than Obama the politician is Obama the symbol. A symbol of progress towards a great possible change. A symbol that we just might be able to heal a terrible racial and culturual divide that has kept this country from progressing into the future. And the way things are going it could be make or break.

As politician it is dead certainty in our 2 party sham of a system Obama will let us down. As a politician, and as a flawed human being with in our political world, he will enrage and frustrate us.

But. As a symbol he CAN'T let us down. Not if we understand the past. That is If he wins. IF.

And that is what people the world over are excited about. We are on a rzors edge and a symbol might just be enough to keep from slitting out own throats. And Americans and the world at large have every right, and I would argue— every need to be—excited about this election.

So certain assholes can be as cynical as they want. But that cynical shit won't help and should be left behind with the dead past.
posted by tkchrist at 10:24 AM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]


Wow -- a lot of points here.

Okay. To the person who said that one of the reaons he was put off by the enthusiasm in the Obama thread was because he "wasn't seeing snark" -- uh, why does there have to be snark in everything? some people just...get excited over stuff, and if you don't, that isn't a value judgement on either one of you. If people are getting excited, and you're not excited with them, why not just...let them be excited and go somewhere else?

Mind, I'm responding to that specific logic point there. I understand the dangers of what is perceived to be a cult of personality, but -- I think we're still a very safe distance from Triumph Of The Will territory here, so crapping on people's enthusiasm just because you're not feeling it and you miss the snark is just spoilsporty, in my opinion. And I'd be of this opinion about any topic, not just politics. It just smacks of being tacky, is all.

That said, I also felt the Obama thread needed some balance -- but why not link to McCain photos in the thread in comments? I personally would have been interested.

As for the whole "it's a black man and that makes it more significant" concept -- erm, yes and no. Yes, it's historically significant that a black man is up for office. But no, in the sense that if the biggest reason that you are supporting him is because he's black -- that implies that if he were white, you'd just think he was a regular schlub, and by extension I can assume that you've therefore made his race the whole point of your adulation, and that....well, that's racism. So yes, it's historically significant, but his race doesn't give the whole campaign a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. How he does the job is still the bigger yardstick.

As for the photos themselves: some of them were indeed compositionally cool, from an aesthetic sense. And I don't mean "oh Obama's so dreamy I could stare at him for hours even if he were just reading the phone book" sense. I mean "that photo is a very well-composed photo, which would look good regardless of whether the subject was Obama or Sid the guy who works the deli counter".

Finally: to those pointing out that "McCain doesn't let people see him unguarded omg he is so sheltered" -- well, we have had one unguarded photo of McCain; that goofy tongue-sticky-outy thing he did after the debate. And the public responded by photoshopping it to death and making Lolcat images out of it. I'm not a McCain supporter, but to be honest I feel bad for the way the guy's been made fun of from that one admittedly dorky move -- becuase it's a move I'd make -- and so I'm not surprised that he's since taken the "well, if it's gonna generate THAT kind of response, then fuck this" attitude.

anyway. My $2.50.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:24 AM on October 23, 2008 [3 favorites]


Also, don't forget that O'bama is Irish. The Irish haven't had it so easy here, what with the whiskey rebellion, the business with Bill the Butcher, the St. Patrick's Day Massacre, the Quiet Man Rebellion, Sean Connery getting killed in the Molly Maguires, and other events of anti-Irish rebellion I learned from the history books How The Irish Saved America What Hated Them for Being Sons of Hibernia.

I've heard the book isn't 100 percent historically accurate, but I think that's just more anti-Irish sentiment.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:49 AM on October 23, 2008 [5 favorites]


I don't understand why people bother with "that's not best of the web." Everyone could say that - sincerely - about ten posts a day on MetaFilter. It's meaningless. Why not just be honest and say, "I didn't like it"?
posted by ignignokt at 1:19 PM on October 23, 2008


But think: by simply including a link to the OTHER photo gallery on the Digital Journalist site -- the one featuring John McCain's "quieter" campaign moments -- it would have at least been a more (dare I say) balanced FPP.

If only there was some way to enter into some type of, if you will, "meta-discussion" (that is to say, a discussion about the post in question) and add data you feel will make the overall zeitgeist (that is to say, overarching intellectual climate) of the post more balanced. Somehow.
posted by nanojath at 2:02 PM on October 23, 2008


we have had one unguarded photo of McCain; that goofy tongue-sticky-outy thing he did after the debate. And the public responded by photoshopping it to death and making Lolcat images out of it. I'm not a McCain supporter, but to be honest I feel bad for the way the guy's been made fun of from that one admittedly dorky move -- becuase it's a move I'd make
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:24 AM on October 23


Thanks for pointing this out - as disgusted as I am in general by McCain, when I saw him do that stutter-step tongue thing, I felt just shitloads of empathy for him. Because when I fuck up like that I also make weird faces and just, like, completely drop my guard. It was one of the most human moments of his entire campaign and I cringe looking at the shitty mean-spirited manipulations of that image.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:14 PM on October 23, 2008


smackfu: "What can we all do to help?
Someone could fix the stupid autoquoting script so it doesn't say Admin next to mathowie's and jessamyn's names.
"

I could get behind that movement.
posted by dg at 2:27 PM on October 23, 2008


But think: by simply including a link to the OTHER photo gallery on the Digital Journalist site -- the one featuring John McCain's "quieter" campaign moments -- it would have at least been a more (dare I say) balanced FPP.

So just put it in the comments. Make the thread more of a discourse, for grod's sake. Do you think flouting the rules, making more work for the admins, and creating a post that was going to be deleted and never seen by most people did a better job of that?
posted by phearlez at 2:42 PM on October 23, 2008


One only shucks pumps. Single shot and double barrel shotguns without hammerless cocking mechanisms still require cocking to fire. Hammerless systems of course cock when you break the gun open so while technically cockable no one says they are cocking the gun when breaking it open.

A good point, and well made. I of course was thinking pump-action.
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:44 PM on October 23, 2008


GuyZero writes "What??? The GST is a textbook example of a regressive tax. "

It is a lot better, for everybody but the PCs, than the tax it replaced though.
posted by Mitheral at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2008


and that....well, that's racism

and... well, no it's not.
posted by tkchrist at 7:53 PM on October 23, 2008


I'd need to inspect the nude photos of both Harper and Mulroney to decide between 'em. Memail me at this punctuation symbol.
posted by ~ at 8:06 PM on October 23, 2008




tkchrist, I always thought the definition of racism was "treating someone differently because of what race they are."

If someone is an Obama fan only because of his race -- in other words, if they think he's great because "he's a BLACK MAN doing this", but if he were a white guy instead doing the same things they wouldn't care -- then it is his race that they are reacting to, not his achievements.

That sounds like "treating someone differently because of what race they are" to me, no?

Look -- I don't REALLY believe that anyone supporting Obama is racist. I just think that using "but Obama is more special because he's black" should be a secondary thing. If you want to win over the people who want to know why we're excited, mentioning what he's going to DO should be the first thing we say, not "but he's black! Doesn't that get you excited?" That's all I meant.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:21 PM on October 23, 2008


And FWIW: I did indeed look at all of the Obama pix. They were good pictures. But revealing? Intimate? Interesting? Eh...not so much. No more so than at least half of the other photo galleries you can find on Flickr or elsewhere.
posted by davidmsc at 10:19 PM on October 23, 2008


treating someone differently because of what race they are

On the other hand, it's not like the USA has ever been prepared to consider a black man for President before now. This is a historic event, and one that marks a turning point in the evolution of race relations in the USA.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:24 PM on October 23, 2008


I always thought the definition of racism was "treating someone differently because of what race they are."

And there for you must be against head-start and affirmative action.

And anyway. You'd be incorrect with your definition.

rac·ism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

So. Who am I discriminating against? And who am I claiming is inherently GENETICALLY superior?

It's not racists or even RACIALIST (which would be closer to what you think your gong for here) to desire to correct a wrong against an oppressed minority by promoting the political and social stature of a representative of that minorities through a frigg'n democratic vote of said society.

Am I voting for Obama because JUST he is black?

Well golly gee Wally. Fuck no. Because that would mean I HAVE to vote for the Republican and essentially reward the abject failure and incompetence of the GOP that has been in charge the last eight years. Obama ain't so much the best candidate as he is not the worst candidate.

But I sure as shit would be a lot less excited if Obama was some white nerd from Minnesota. And I wouldn't vote for him if he was a Republican.

But IF Obama was a Republican I wouldn't be as sphincter-pinching scared of him as I am of McCain. A great deal of that lack of fear would also be the net positive effect the first Black President would have on the culture.

And that's not even close to racism, sparky. But nice try. If your gonna hurl dipshit troll accusations of racism around you gotta do better that one.
posted by tkchrist at 10:45 PM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]


Good lord, how did you people get so far out of line?

Here's a fun old movie for you to watch instead.

posted by Burhanistan at 11:20 PM on October 23, 2008


Finally: to those pointing out that "McCain doesn't let people see him unguarded omg he is so sheltered" -- well, we have had one unguarded photo of McCain; that goofy tongue-sticky-outy thing he did after the debate.

Well, considering McCain was previously known for being unguarded and chummy with the press, I'd say that probably isn't true. He used to have long, unscripted press conferences and got a free pass on a lot of his bullshit as a result. Now he's completely sold out his relatively moderate principles and hired the people that slandered him in the last election and has to script everything because it's tough to keep your lies straight otherwise.
posted by electroboy at 6:11 AM on October 24, 2008


tkchrist, at no time did I accuse YOU of being a racist personally.

Perhaps I just really used a poor word choice for what I was actually trying to say. I was responding to things I've seen OTHER PEOPLE WHO AREN'T YOU say, when they were passionately trying to argue that the reason people are excited about the Obama campaign is because "but don't you understand how significant his campaign is? I mean, he's BLACK! Don't you get it?" And that justification, that using his race as the primary means to try to justify their excitement to others, just didn't sit right with me, because...well, I've told you why.

Whatever word you want to use for my arguments and their behavior, go ahead and substitute it for "racism." and please remember that I was not speaking of you personally at any point, that I can recall.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on October 24, 2008


The problem with taking people purely at their word is that a lot of people aren't so good with their words. Sometimes you have to take them at what they meant, not what they said.

There's a difference between wanting Obama to be President because he's black and being excited that a candidate who happens to be black could very well be elected President. "Don't you understand how significant his campaign is? I mean, he's BLACK! Don't you get it?" may not be the most articulate expression of that fact but its what it means.
posted by phearlez at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2008


they were passionately trying to argue that the reason people are excited about the Obama campaign is because "but don't you understand how significant his campaign is? I mean, he's BLACK! Don't you get it?" And that justification, that using his race as the primary means to try to justify their excitement to others, just didn't sit right with me

Why in the holy hell not? Forget about "racism," you don't seem to understand why it's important and, yes, exciting that a black man is about to be elected president of the United States. I'm an anarchist and I'm excited about it. This is historical, here, and you should really come out of your shell enough to notice.
posted by languagehat at 12:48 PM on October 24, 2008


Right -- this is the last time I'm going to state my position on The Inherant Importance Of Barack Obama's Race to The Campaign And Then I'd Like To Drop It, Thanks.

I am not "in a shell" and devoid of the knowledge that there is historic significance to the fact that a black man is up for president. Yes, it's historic. Yes, it's important. But it is not THE ONLY REASON WE SHOULD BE EXCITED, in my opinion. It should be a TANGENTIAL reason, kind of like the icing on the cake, if you will. It's a bonus. But in my opinion, I am far more excited about the fact that we have a potential president WITH BRAINS.

Look, I just personally can think of a few other reasons to be excited about Obama BEFORE I get to his race. Not because I don't think his race is significant, or because I don't think there is historic importance to it. It's just that I think that the other reasons are MORE worth getting excited about.

I admit I went a little far in calling that racism; it just rubs me the wrong way in the way that a condescending, "oh, you've done SUCH a great job at fixing that car, for a girl!" or "you've done SUCH a good job writing that book, considering you're a kid!" or "you speak SO well for someone who doesn't speak English!" does. But that could very well be a pet peeve of mine, and I probably went too far.

But you can't accuse me of thinking that it's not historically important that Obama is running. Of course it is. But you're ALSO not going to get me to say it is MORE important than other factors, is all, and that's all I was getting at. And, at the end of the day, I'm speaking only of MY reaction, and your mileage, as ever, may vary. But towards that end, if I see you trying to argue with someone over on the Blue and they're cranky about "why so many Obama supporters are acting like he's the best thing since sliced bread," and if all you have to say is "but he's black! It's significant!" I'm still gonna wince and wish you'd made a more convincing argument.

THAT'S what I meant. Period.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2008


Forget about "racism," you don't seem to understand why it's important and, yes, exciting that a black man is about to be elected president of the United States.

Wow, I'll bet you're glad you're not in the awkward position of celebrating the election of him, him, or him.
posted by Rykey at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2008


Quite powerful thread so far.
posted by Mister_A at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2008


Good one Rykey!
posted by Mister_A at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2008


Good one Rykey!

A good example of mindless strawman pseudo-equivalence, you mean?
posted by languagehat at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2008


But you're ALSO not going to get me to say it is MORE important than other factors, is all, and that's all I was getting at.

Perhaps, but it's not remotely what you said.

if the biggest reason that you are supporting him is because he's black -- that implies that if he were white, you'd just think he was a regular schlub, and by extension I can assume that you've therefore made his race the whole point of your adulation

The problem is that leap you make at the end. There may be plenty of reasons why someone is supporting one candidate, but perhaps only one that is why they're excited by that person. There's nothing remotely contradictory in someone being pleased as punch with the candidate for 1,001 reasons and separately being giddy that we as a nation have come to where the concept of a black president is palatable to half the population.

Rykey's otherwise nonsensical equivalence illustrates the point completely. The nation shifting from segregated water fountains to being open to a black leader in 50 years is exciting, even if the actual candidate is not appealing to you.
posted by phearlez at 2:35 PM on October 24, 2008


... it's important and, yes, exciting that a black man is about to be elected president of the United States.
That particular egg is not quite hatched yet.
posted by dg at 2:36 PM on October 24, 2008


Why aren't you bastards watching "Psychomania"?
posted by Burhanistan at 2:42 PM on October 24, 2008


A good example of mindless strawman pseudo-equivalence, you mean?

I'm not trying to establish equivalence. I'm just saying that while yes, it's amazingly significant from a historical/political angle that a half-black man might be President Of The United States in 2009, it doesn't necessarily follow that celebration is in order, for the reasons I allude to above. Let's not pat ourselves on the back too hard for being alive during a monumental historical moment.
posted by Rykey at 2:47 PM on October 24, 2008


The nation shifting from segregated water fountains to being open to a black leader in 50 years is exciting, even if the actual candidate is not appealing to you.

Yet it could be horrifying-- not exciting at all-- depending on which black man were being elected. Just sayin'.
posted by Rykey at 2:52 PM on October 24, 2008


And given the impossibility of making any distinction whatsoever between Robert Mugabe and Barack Obama, I cannot figure out a way to end this sentence without laughing and so I'm just going to kind of ramble for a bit and then mash some random punctuation^#$@#!%
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:57 PM on October 24, 2008


Hooray! Michael Steele 2012! Drill baby drill!

No, wait. Oh my god. Holy shit.

You switched black men on me! Stop being so tricky, you know I can't tell them apart!
posted by Tehanu at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


That particular egg is not quite hatched yet.

I don't know about you, but I broke my effing egg on day 3 in 8th grade health class and got a B-, so I think someone else should take responsibility for most-likely-to-be-elected Obama in this case.
posted by Tehanu at 3:03 PM on October 24, 2008


the impossibility of making any distinction whatsoever between Robert Mugabe and Barack Obama

I absolutely do make a distinction. I voted for Obama, whereas I would never... ah, fuckit.
posted by Rykey at 7:09 PM on October 24, 2008


The nation shifting from segregated water fountains to being open to a black leader in 50 years is exciting, even if the actual candidate is not appealing to you.

Yet it could be horrifying-- not exciting at all-- depending on which black man were being elected. Just sayin'.


Yes, it could ALSO be horrifying, depending on your perspective and the candidate in question. However it would still be an amazing and exciting thing for the country's perspective on race to have moved that much.
posted by phearlez at 2:03 PM on October 25, 2008


...it would still be an amazing and exciting thing for the country's perspective on race to have moved that much.

Even if... ah, fuckit.
posted by Rykey at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2008


Rykey, do you believe there's a real likelihood that Obama is like some sort of crypto-Mugabe, carefully obscuring a whacko manifesto under a super clean cover just long enough to slip into power and go nuts?

Because I get your point. I think everybody does. It's just not a very interesting or compelling What If as a dry academic question—certainly not one worth a series of world-weary "ah, fuckit" ripostes—and so it's hard to see why you're keeping at this line or argumentation unless there's a more compelling reason here in your mind. Which, you know, lay those cards on the table and we can dig into it, but otherwise, sheesh, let it go.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:10 PM on October 25, 2008


First off, I'm thrilled that this is my first admin callout. I've never felt enough a part of Metafilter to warrant one.

Really, I take MeTa fairly not seriously; the links I posted above were fairly tongue-in-cheek, though they do illustrate my point, albeit in a very hyperbolic way. I'm not invested one way or the other in this discussion, so I'm sorry if my comments are diverting a productive conversation. I thought "interesting or compelling" was more of a MeFi/AskMe thing.

...sheesh, let it go.

Okay then.
posted by Rykey at 6:36 PM on October 25, 2008


Really, I take MeTa fairly not seriously; the links I posted above were fairly tongue-in-cheek, though they do illustrate my point, albeit in a very hyperbolic way. I'm not invested one way or the other in this discussion

Troll.
posted by languagehat at 2:29 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


That wasn't even an admin callout. It was an exasperated interlocutor grouseout.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:43 PM on October 26, 2008


You're apparently invested in asking people to reiterate the same point over and over. The fact that you don't even care about the content of the discussion just makes that even more obnoxious.
posted by phearlez at 12:41 PM on October 27, 2008


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