The floor is open. May 5, 2009 2:46 PM Subscribe
I'm supposed to ask here: what's the question?
The AskMe post is as follows:
The AskMe post is as follows:
[opening: tale of deceit and betrayal]It's pretty clear that the OP posed a token question and is mainly posting to chat about relationship drama. Is this really what AskMe is for?
"So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors."
[Caveat: I know what you're going to say, so please don't tell me what I don't want to hear. Also, I'm already doing the alternative advice you were going to give me.]
"Otherwise, the floor is open."
Dude's wife was about to fuck some other guy. Cut the dude some slack, d-bag.
posted by wfrgms at 2:51 PM on May 5, 2009 [32 favorites]
posted by wfrgms at 2:51 PM on May 5, 2009 [32 favorites]
"So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors."
That's the question. If you can't answer it, there's no reason for a callout. I made what I think is a great answer to the question.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2009
That's the question. If you can't answer it, there's no reason for a callout. I made what I think is a great answer to the question.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2009
You're suggesting DMTFA is the only reasonable response? Otherwise, why is ruling this one thing out of bounds, especially considering the situation is basically: "considered an affair; don't want to give up on the marriage"? Are you that into babies with bathwater?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Additionally my read on the question is that the guy is having a sort of muddling time figuring out this low cost/high cost stuff, got a book from his therapist and is sort of adrift in that way you can be when someone you care about has kicked you in the teeth (even if you are not blameless). So, I think almost everyone managed to give decent and appropriate answers in that thread and I don't really get why this is under your skin after we deleted your unhelpful answers.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:57 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:57 PM on May 5, 2009
It's pretty clear that the OP posed a token question and is mainly posting to chat about relationship drama.
My old legal writing professor said some thing wise--if you have to state something is "clear" you can bet it isn't.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:58 PM on May 5, 2009 [15 favorites]
My old legal writing professor said some thing wise--if you have to state something is "clear" you can bet it isn't.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:58 PM on May 5, 2009 [15 favorites]
My vibe is that relationshipfilter questions get some slack with regards to the "what's your question" guideline. Personally, I never even click on those threads. It's always a mess. There's never a good answer.
posted by GuyZero at 2:59 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 2:59 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's pretty clear that the OP posed a token question and is mainly posting to chat about relationship drama.
The dude has 14 hour days, 3 kids and marriage with problems. I seriously doubt that AskMe is his chat center.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:01 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
The dude has 14 hour days, 3 kids and marriage with problems. I seriously doubt that AskMe is his chat center.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:01 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I read this earlier today and figured someone was either looking for ideas to flesh out his screenplay and / or novel or just having some fun with us. I thought I flagged it and moved on, but on re-opening the thread, it appears that I merely moved on. I suggest you do the same.
posted by dersins at 3:04 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by dersins at 3:04 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
The thing is you know, MANY people, myself included, managed to parse the question, figure it out, and propose an answer, suggestion, useful/targeted question. That there *is* no question seems to be a minority (perhaps only your?) bugaboo?
So I turn it back to you: What is YOUR point?
Flag it and move on, if you disagree.
posted by bunnycup at 3:06 PM on May 5, 2009
So I turn it back to you: What is YOUR point?
Flag it and move on, if you disagree.
posted by bunnycup at 3:06 PM on May 5, 2009
Sorry, I just read the thread and it struck me as "I want to talk about this terrible thing that happened, I'll go through the motions of making this sort of like a question so I can talk about it here." And of course the dramafilter crowd can't resist chiming in, but it just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. YMMV I suppose.
posted by mullingitover at 3:07 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by mullingitover at 3:07 PM on May 5, 2009
He's going through a rough time of it. There's a lot going through his head and even though they are confronting it, it does sound like he's pretty cut up over it. Considering that I think he did a pretty good job of being able to frame it in a way that actually was an answerable question. Not that I had an answer for him, but others seemed to be able to help.
posted by Elmore at 3:09 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Elmore at 3:09 PM on May 5, 2009
The AskMe post is as follows:
[opening: tale of deceit and betrayal]
"So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors."
[Caveat: I know what you're going to say, so please don't tell me what I don't want to hear. Also, I'm already doing the alternative advice you were going to give me.]
editorializing someone elses' breaking heart is also bad form, no?
posted by the aloha at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
[opening: tale of deceit and betrayal]
"So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors."
[Caveat: I know what you're going to say, so please don't tell me what I don't want to hear. Also, I'm already doing the alternative advice you were going to give me.]
editorializing someone elses' breaking heart is also bad form, no?
posted by the aloha at 3:12 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I read it, sighed, and mostly felt sad. Part of me thought about saying, "Don't beat yourself up over a keylogger. Sometimes your instincts are there for a reason," but being post-rational isn't a huge help.
It's not an amazingly well-defined question, but it seems alright. The question itself could be in bold or something, as such:
It's not an amazingly well-defined question, but it seems alright. The question itself could be in bold or something, as such:
One of the chapters is about rebuilding trust, and the author describes "low-cost behaviors" and "high-cost behaviors," things that the couple needs to define for themselves that would help to rebuild trust. Low-cost behaviors might be something like "call me to let me know where you are several times a day" or "tell me frequently how much you love me." High-cost behaviors might be more like "Fire your secretary, sell the house, and move with me to another city."posted by adipocere at 3:14 PM on May 5, 2009
Interestingly, the book describes low-cost behaviors as a mutual effort, but the high-cost behaviors are the responsibility of the unfaithful partner alone. They are the sacrificial, expensive gestures to demonstrate the relationship is worth investing in and saving.
So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors.
I think the guy has questions, but is far too shellshocked right now to know what they are. I think the token question in the original post is an ok justification for the post to stay up - I think he's getting some benefit from the answers he's receiving.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:14 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:14 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
i concur with most here that i would not have been able to compose a post that well when i have had bad things happen in my life (you can argue that i am unable to be coherent now in a good time).
i don't know what i could type to help him in his spot due to the different situation. i do know, though, that the last thing he needs at this time is to be called out on a technicality while reaching out for help in a way that he is able to do at this point in time.
posted by the aloha at 3:21 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
i don't know what i could type to help him in his spot due to the different situation. i do know, though, that the last thing he needs at this time is to be called out on a technicality while reaching out for help in a way that he is able to do at this point in time.
posted by the aloha at 3:21 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Obviously, the OP is looking for an explanation of the infield fly rule with an eye towards the parallels inherent in finding someone being offside in FIFA matches. This is, of course, patently ridiculous as even the most plebian of us can recognize that while American football's two-minute warning timeout is most likely analogue for curling's sweepers being allowed thirty seconds for pee breaks during play, baseball and football have as much to do with each other as crew and badminton. Aside from the fact that badminton uses shuttlecocks, which is the second most hilarious word in the English language, and crews use coxswains which only rates a distant sixty-third.
posted by ooga_booga at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by ooga_booga at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
"Where do I find a good dentist in Whoville?" is not an emotionally fraught question. If someone asks where a dentist is, we can safely presume that they want exactly one thing: the location of a dentist. We don't care why they need the dentist; we may safely presume that their teeth hurt.
On the other hand, "My wife nearly cheated on me, I spied on her to find this out, how can we fix our relationship?" is emotionally fraught, will tend to be asked in a roundabout or bet-each-way or caveat-filled way, and inherently requires some amount of explanations and backstory in order to provide enough information for sensible answers to be given.
If you can't tell the difference, or don't consider the difference worth acknowledging (ie, sneering at "dramafilter" and using the term "chiming in"), reconsider whether you ought to be trying to answer questions like this at all yourself. Don't bother considering whether you ought to be trying to prevent others from answering questions: you oughtn't. Some of us have an interest in other people's welfare that may or may not count as "care", but at the very least, involves a desire to actually see them resolve their problems beneficially to themselves. I would call the possession of that quality, a minimum standard for contribution to relationship/ethics/morality questions.
In summary, get over your focus on proper formatting, and realize that "chatting about relationship drama" is what people usually do in order to resolve drama in their relationships. What are you trying to achieve with this MetaTalk callout?
posted by aeschenkarnos at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
On the other hand, "My wife nearly cheated on me, I spied on her to find this out, how can we fix our relationship?" is emotionally fraught, will tend to be asked in a roundabout or bet-each-way or caveat-filled way, and inherently requires some amount of explanations and backstory in order to provide enough information for sensible answers to be given.
If you can't tell the difference, or don't consider the difference worth acknowledging (ie, sneering at "dramafilter" and using the term "chiming in"), reconsider whether you ought to be trying to answer questions like this at all yourself. Don't bother considering whether you ought to be trying to prevent others from answering questions: you oughtn't. Some of us have an interest in other people's welfare that may or may not count as "care", but at the very least, involves a desire to actually see them resolve their problems beneficially to themselves. I would call the possession of that quality, a minimum standard for contribution to relationship/ethics/morality questions.
In summary, get over your focus on proper formatting, and realize that "chatting about relationship drama" is what people usually do in order to resolve drama in their relationships. What are you trying to achieve with this MetaTalk callout?
posted by aeschenkarnos at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
Not only that, but I can see exactly why the poster is confused because the high cost/low cost idea doesn't fit his situation. Because it wasn't an affair based on some job or outside hobby, she can't be asked to give up anything. So the main impact of the book is diminished.
My suggestion was that since it involved inappropriate computer chat leading to propsed sex, that she should write down everyone she communicated with during the day and then read that list to him at night. If she backslides, then she will have to lie through her teeth to him about it. Hard enough to do once, very hard to do repeatedly to his face. Plus he can start to rely on her to tell the truth and can learn to trust again because she does it every day. Plus he won't have to snoop. It is going to be real hard not to do it if the last time he snooped his suspicions were proved true.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009
My suggestion was that since it involved inappropriate computer chat leading to propsed sex, that she should write down everyone she communicated with during the day and then read that list to him at night. If she backslides, then she will have to lie through her teeth to him about it. Hard enough to do once, very hard to do repeatedly to his face. Plus he can start to rely on her to tell the truth and can learn to trust again because she does it every day. Plus he won't have to snoop. It is going to be real hard not to do it if the last time he snooped his suspicions were proved true.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:22 PM on May 5, 2009
Most relationship threads don't have any real answer but that is why we love them. From the pity parties, to the self-validation, to the "please pat me on the back and tell me right" and all the way to "they're the devil, right?" express train, they're part of the ask.me experiences. If you take away our right to tell other people how to fix their love life, then you take away our freedom, to quote the relationship train wreck himself, Mr. Mel Gibson.
Also, for the specific question being talked about here, adipocere does a good job reducing the question to what it should be. Most of the background information, while dramariffic, isn't entirely useful to what the actual answer to the question is. But, sometimes, it's useful to have the person do a form of verbal diarreha because then the real question comes out. Like the recent "is it okay to help my boyfriend pay for my engagement ring?". The question had nothing to do with engagement rings and more about a girl venting about having to "wait" to be engaged and want ways to kick start her engagement and try and trick her boyfriend in a place he didn't want to be in. That's the thing with relationship questions - sometimes the part where you go get a snack before you read it because you know it'll take some time, is actually useful. Other times, it's not. Either way, it's the nature of relationship questions in general and considering how they've been part of ask.me since day 1, it's better to just embrace it and enjoy the ride.
posted by Stynxno at 3:24 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
Also, for the specific question being talked about here, adipocere does a good job reducing the question to what it should be. Most of the background information, while dramariffic, isn't entirely useful to what the actual answer to the question is. But, sometimes, it's useful to have the person do a form of verbal diarreha because then the real question comes out. Like the recent "is it okay to help my boyfriend pay for my engagement ring?". The question had nothing to do with engagement rings and more about a girl venting about having to "wait" to be engaged and want ways to kick start her engagement and try and trick her boyfriend in a place he didn't want to be in. That's the thing with relationship questions - sometimes the part where you go get a snack before you read it because you know it'll take some time, is actually useful. Other times, it's not. Either way, it's the nature of relationship questions in general and considering how they've been part of ask.me since day 1, it's better to just embrace it and enjoy the ride.
posted by Stynxno at 3:24 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
the aloha writes "editorializing someone elses' breaking heart is also bad form, no?"
I wasn't trying to make a mockery of the situation, only to capture the essence in a few short words. I apologize if it comes off as snark. The thing that rubbed me wrong about the post was 'opening the floor' which is synonymous with 'open thread, chat freely as long as it's about me.' I get that he needs encouragement and attention right now after being stabbed in the heart, and I'm not trying to minimize that. It's the open thread aspect, in already-vague relationshipfilter, that pushed it over the line for me.
posted by mullingitover at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2009
I wasn't trying to make a mockery of the situation, only to capture the essence in a few short words. I apologize if it comes off as snark. The thing that rubbed me wrong about the post was 'opening the floor' which is synonymous with 'open thread, chat freely as long as it's about me.' I get that he needs encouragement and attention right now after being stabbed in the heart, and I'm not trying to minimize that. It's the open thread aspect, in already-vague relationshipfilter, that pushed it over the line for me.
posted by mullingitover at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2009
Whoa, he feels bad for snooping on her? Sounds to me like he was utterly justified & vindicated, there. I had a marriage end over an affair which I found out about digging through email at 3 in the morning just like this guy (except without the keylogger), so I'm waaaaaaay too close to it to offer any advice, but I can figure from his description of his emotions that this is probably a true story, whether it's a question or not, and he's been hurt bad.
It may not be what AskMe is for, though, I'll give you that.
fwiw, I dumped her like a hot potato, and she was only too happy to see the door slam behind me. Glar. That post was hard to read even 12 years later.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
It may not be what AskMe is for, though, I'll give you that.
fwiw, I dumped her like a hot potato, and she was only too happy to see the door slam behind me. Glar. That post was hard to read even 12 years later.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
apology accepted for confirming that it was not your intention to mock, mullingitover.
posted by the aloha at 3:35 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by the aloha at 3:35 PM on May 5, 2009
mullingitover: "OP posed a token question and is mainly posting to chat about relationship drama."
You are out of your mind to read that question that way.
posted by boo_radley at 3:46 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
You are out of your mind to read that question that way.
posted by boo_radley at 3:46 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Who cares what the question is, when all your love's in messages?
posted by Afroblanco at 3:48 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Afroblanco at 3:48 PM on May 5, 2009
So everyone who's been cheated on is justifying the keylogger and getting defensive about any possible guilt or blame being placed on the OP, and everyone who's been falsely accused or ignored is trying to see the wife's side.
It seems to me more than the OP posing a token question in order to chat about relationship drama, a lot of the answers are mostly just projection, with only a thin premise of trying to provide advice specific to the asker.
posted by desuetude at 4:12 PM on May 5, 2009
It seems to me more than the OP posing a token question in order to chat about relationship drama, a lot of the answers are mostly just projection, with only a thin premise of trying to provide advice specific to the asker.
posted by desuetude at 4:12 PM on May 5, 2009
Not to be a mod suck-up, but I trust jessamyn to make these calls.
Now I am off to make a stunt post, calling this thread out, and asking why no one ever emails a mod to get an official read on things.
Make sure you just flag my post and move on.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:33 PM on May 5, 2009
Now I am off to make a stunt post, calling this thread out, and asking why no one ever emails a mod to get an official read on things.
Make sure you just flag my post and move on.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:33 PM on May 5, 2009
I think the only thing that is clear is that there are different rules for different scenarios. Tug on the cabal's heartstrings, and do whatever you want :)
posted by gjc at 4:54 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by gjc at 4:54 PM on May 5, 2009
Ask Metafilter: a lot of the answers are mostly just projection, with only a thin premise of trying to provide advice specific to the asker.
posted by ODiV at 5:07 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by ODiV at 5:07 PM on May 5, 2009
You don't have questions, we don't have answers.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:11 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by blue_beetle at 5:11 PM on May 5, 2009
That's powerful shit, for a split second after I read that I was like I'M NEVER HAVING ANOTHER RELATIONSHIP EVER.
Hang in there, anonymous duder, wherever you are.
posted by The Straightener at 5:41 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hang in there, anonymous duder, wherever you are.
posted by The Straightener at 5:41 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Because he didn't ask, I won't put this in the thread over there, but damn, buddy, all that waddling and quacking was a pretty clear indication that you had a duck on your hands, even before you got that keylogger on the comp. Don't let things go so far again, my friend.
posted by Mister_A at 6:31 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 6:31 PM on May 5, 2009
Oh, my sweet mother of Christ, I stayed out of that one. "Jesus, dude, it sounds like your relationship is all sorts of fucked up right now, and there's nothing I can tell you that you won't have to work out for your own anyway, but man, I'm sorry to hear about all that…"
Also, I've been too busy making myself go blind with the stupid Census site, trying to get info for a grant client that's like, I need all this info that proves my idea for teaching computer skills to minorities is a good one, oh yeah, by 9pm tonight. I'm hoping that by giving all the demographic info they asked for, I can skate on thin justifications for their program (since most empirical evidence has found no measurable benefit).
In any event, I've called too many librarians today to waste the time of the one here.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, I've been too busy making myself go blind with the stupid Census site, trying to get info for a grant client that's like, I need all this info that proves my idea for teaching computer skills to minorities is a good one, oh yeah, by 9pm tonight. I'm hoping that by giving all the demographic info they asked for, I can skate on thin justifications for their program (since most empirical evidence has found no measurable benefit).
In any event, I've called too many librarians today to waste the time of the one here.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
(Sorry, I thought this MeTa had devolved into MeTa chat.)
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 PM on May 5, 2009
Most relationship threads don't have any real answer but that is why we love them. From the pity parties, to the self-validation, to the "please pat me on the back and tell me right" and all the way to "they're the devil, right?" express train, they're part of the ask.me experiences.
Oooh, oooh, you missed, "I still have some issues from my last relationship and I'll work them out here!"
Whoa, he feels bad for snooping on her? Sounds to me like he was utterly justified & vindicated, there.
I think you'll find there's a mixed bag of views on that one...
posted by rodgerd at 6:42 PM on May 5, 2009
Oooh, oooh, you missed, "I still have some issues from my last relationship and I'll work them out here!"
Whoa, he feels bad for snooping on her? Sounds to me like he was utterly justified & vindicated, there.
I think you'll find there's a mixed bag of views on that one...
posted by rodgerd at 6:42 PM on May 5, 2009
And of course the dramafilter crowd can't resist chiming in, but it just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. YMMV I suppose.
You're being disingenuous here. You also "chimed in." Your comment was not helpful, I flagged it (and I assume many others did as well), it was removed, and now you are posting this callout because your feelings are hurt, not because you think the question wasn't formatted properly.
Even then, I'd cut you some slack if you just copped to your real motivation for posting this callout, but since you seem to want to drag this poor guy down with you, I have no sympathy for you.
This is a bad callout, and you should feel bad.
posted by misha at 6:59 PM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
You're being disingenuous here. You also "chimed in." Your comment was not helpful, I flagged it (and I assume many others did as well), it was removed, and now you are posting this callout because your feelings are hurt, not because you think the question wasn't formatted properly.
Even then, I'd cut you some slack if you just copped to your real motivation for posting this callout, but since you seem to want to drag this poor guy down with you, I have no sympathy for you.
This is a bad callout, and you should feel bad.
posted by misha at 6:59 PM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
I was tempted to say 'well, for a year you can threaten to drop the veil of anonymity in your question if she does anything you don't like', which I felt was baked into the question in the first place and was a little distasteful to me, considering that his wife must be suffering agonies of shame and fear of exposure as it is, and that he's wallowing in that already, but I am trying hard not to be so mean.
posted by jamjam at 7:17 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by jamjam at 7:17 PM on May 5, 2009
"So, I'd like some ideas about what might be considered high-cost behaviors."
That's the question.
There is a whole bunch of crap in there not answering the question, in that case. It's like he's pouring out his heart then throwing out a token question, and the answerers are tokenly answering the token question before pouncing all over the emotional detail. Not a good question at all.
It's the equivalent of a 1700 word rant about a Dell motherboard followed by "Oh btw, I read the manual and it tells me that to fix the motherboard problem I should buy a new power supply, what are some good power supplies?." A total trainwreck and probably zapped in an instant in that case.
posted by fire&wings at 7:22 PM on May 5, 2009
That's the question.
There is a whole bunch of crap in there not answering the question, in that case. It's like he's pouring out his heart then throwing out a token question, and the answerers are tokenly answering the token question before pouncing all over the emotional detail. Not a good question at all.
It's the equivalent of a 1700 word rant about a Dell motherboard followed by "Oh btw, I read the manual and it tells me that to fix the motherboard problem I should buy a new power supply, what are some good power supplies?." A total trainwreck and probably zapped in an instant in that case.
posted by fire&wings at 7:22 PM on May 5, 2009
I think you'll find there's a mixed bag of views on that one...
That's why I said "sounds to me." It's like when FSCK tells you that your hard drive "appears to be" okay.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:25 PM on May 5, 2009
That's why I said "sounds to me." It's like when FSCK tells you that your hard drive "appears to be" okay.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:25 PM on May 5, 2009
I think the asker of the question just wanted people brainstorming ideas for "high cost behaviors" he could request of his wife, in payment for her crime. What with the shock, he can't think of a single thing.
I say, hold out for fifth base.
posted by st looney up the cream bun and jam at 7:40 PM on May 5, 2009
I say, hold out for fifth base.
posted by st looney up the cream bun and jam at 7:40 PM on May 5, 2009
The whole "I snooped on my other half and found stuff out" is a minefield to some extent, but to my mind it has two very, very clear and parallel paths:
If you are paranoid (but unjustified) and snoop on an innocent partner, you are so far in the wrong it will burn you up. You have probably ruined your relationship through your own issues - and they are your issues alone to get past. Good luck saving that one.
If you snooped through suspicion and you caught them out, then your snooping is entirely, completely, unquestionably justified if you at all mind being cheated on. There are no possible grounds for the cheating partner to even throw back "but you SNOOPED" in your face if they are guilty. None at all.
Unfortunately, there is zero ground in there for anything approaching 'middle'. Any edge cases become instantly indefensible (and I've been on both sides of that issue myself). If you ever decide to snoop, you have to be 100% sure that you cannot possibly live with 'not knowing' whichever way it may go once you snoop. It is not a path that can be taken lightly, but I hold no blame at all for those that snoop and prove themselves vindicated - they needed, wanted and deserved to know that which was being kept from them. I'd always rather know and leave then either live in ignorance or find out later.
posted by Brockles at 8:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you are paranoid (but unjustified) and snoop on an innocent partner, you are so far in the wrong it will burn you up. You have probably ruined your relationship through your own issues - and they are your issues alone to get past. Good luck saving that one.
If you snooped through suspicion and you caught them out, then your snooping is entirely, completely, unquestionably justified if you at all mind being cheated on. There are no possible grounds for the cheating partner to even throw back "but you SNOOPED" in your face if they are guilty. None at all.
Unfortunately, there is zero ground in there for anything approaching 'middle'. Any edge cases become instantly indefensible (and I've been on both sides of that issue myself). If you ever decide to snoop, you have to be 100% sure that you cannot possibly live with 'not knowing' whichever way it may go once you snoop. It is not a path that can be taken lightly, but I hold no blame at all for those that snoop and prove themselves vindicated - they needed, wanted and deserved to know that which was being kept from them. I'd always rather know and leave then either live in ignorance or find out later.
posted by Brockles at 8:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking about cheating on my husband. He CAN'T know! Don't worry I can handle the innocent act... my question is, does anyone know a good way to find out if there's a keylogger on my computer, and how to disable it in some way that doesn't arouse (heh!) suspicion?
Oh he should NOT be trying to use a keylogger, that is a bad thing. Okay do this and this. You shouldn't cheat, you know, but this is an important trust issue that he's violating with the keylogger. In what other ways is he making life tough for you? Man, your husband is just so not-blameless!
posted by fleacircus at 8:18 PM on May 5, 2009
Oh he should NOT be trying to use a keylogger, that is a bad thing. Okay do this and this. You shouldn't cheat, you know, but this is an important trust issue that he's violating with the keylogger. In what other ways is he making life tough for you? Man, your husband is just so not-blameless!
posted by fleacircus at 8:18 PM on May 5, 2009
That she knew if I ever found out it would kill me. That she thought she could get away with it and live with the aftermath, whatever it would be.
Yeah, I got to this part last night and it just floored me in a punch through the wall up to the shoulder way. The guy is keenly aware of the fact that this is both fucked up and outside the bound of the sort of thing that people can explain away to themselves - that this isn't one of these cases where a person's self-interest tips the balance, but that there's little or nothing on the other side of the scale. This is the epitome of shitty events, much as it may resemble past questions. My take on the question in terms of fit to AskMe is this: (1) it's a really difficult edge case (borrowing from Brockles) and (2) it generated a really difficult edge-case question which illustrates the disconnect between the way this guy's thinking and feeling now and how people perform normally. So in the interests of responding to him in a way that he can handle, and to provide an established point of discussion and suggestions for him as the haze clears from his thoughts, I think it should stay up.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:22 PM on May 5, 2009
Yeah, I got to this part last night and it just floored me in a punch through the wall up to the shoulder way. The guy is keenly aware of the fact that this is both fucked up and outside the bound of the sort of thing that people can explain away to themselves - that this isn't one of these cases where a person's self-interest tips the balance, but that there's little or nothing on the other side of the scale. This is the epitome of shitty events, much as it may resemble past questions. My take on the question in terms of fit to AskMe is this: (1) it's a really difficult edge case (borrowing from Brockles) and (2) it generated a really difficult edge-case question which illustrates the disconnect between the way this guy's thinking and feeling now and how people perform normally. So in the interests of responding to him in a way that he can handle, and to provide an established point of discussion and suggestions for him as the haze clears from his thoughts, I think it should stay up.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:22 PM on May 5, 2009
As part of the Passover seder, Jews tell a story about the questions of the Four Sons. There's a Wise Son, a Wicked Son, a Simple Son, and most importantly, The Son Who Doesn't Know How to Ask. In said story, we're taught that we must take the final son under our wings and explain what we can to him anyway, trying to answer the questions that he hasn't begun to ask. Sometimes, when someone is obviously in distress and, by the very nature of their question, in a highly difficult emotional state, it's understandable that they might not be able to elucidate an award-winning AskMi. We owe it to a (anonymous) member of our community to do our best to understand his situation from his (rather through) explanation and to answer the questions he hasn't necessarily asked with as much compassion as we can.
Climbing off my Bartletesque soapbox here, a guy comes on here asking for some help with, as Inspector.Gadget puts it, "the epitome of shitty events." It's just a plain jackassy thing to do to delete his post because we don't want to bother to read his post and try to empathize. If it truly bugs you that much, skip it and move on. As much as we like to enforce our organically-grown policies and talk about how It's About the Post, Not the Comments, these are real people here, and we shouldn't be jerks when they come to us in need.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 PM on May 5, 2009 [14 favorites]
Climbing off my Bartletesque soapbox here, a guy comes on here asking for some help with, as Inspector.Gadget puts it, "the epitome of shitty events." It's just a plain jackassy thing to do to delete his post because we don't want to bother to read his post and try to empathize. If it truly bugs you that much, skip it and move on. As much as we like to enforce our organically-grown policies and talk about how It's About the Post, Not the Comments, these are real people here, and we shouldn't be jerks when they come to us in need.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 PM on May 5, 2009 [14 favorites]
...she was only too happy to see the door slam behind me. Glar. That post was hard to read even 12 years later.
Devils Rancher: Ouch. I hear you. That post was awfully hard to read for me, too - especially the line "And my heart caved in, and my world started to collapse." I recognize that feeling all too well. My ex left me after 14 years for "the other woman" after carrying on an online affair. I was completely wrecked. No way would I have been able to compose a post that coherent when I was in the thick of it.
My heart goes out to anyone who's gone through this. It's hellish. And yeah, considering his emotional state, I think it's a good idea to cut the guy some slack.
posted by velvet winter at 10:49 PM on May 5, 2009
Devils Rancher: Ouch. I hear you. That post was awfully hard to read for me, too - especially the line "And my heart caved in, and my world started to collapse." I recognize that feeling all too well. My ex left me after 14 years for "the other woman" after carrying on an online affair. I was completely wrecked. No way would I have been able to compose a post that coherent when I was in the thick of it.
My heart goes out to anyone who's gone through this. It's hellish. And yeah, considering his emotional state, I think it's a good idea to cut the guy some slack.
posted by velvet winter at 10:49 PM on May 5, 2009
Well, the other half just posted in the thread, and yes, it's awkward to say the least.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:52 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:52 PM on May 5, 2009
misha writes "You're being disingenuous here. You also 'chimed in.' Your comment was not helpful, I flagged it (and I assume many others did as well), it was removed, and now you are posting this callout because your feelings are hurt, not because you think the question wasn't formatted properly. "
My feelings weren't hurt, but I was told to come here if it was a 'big deal' so here I am. It's not that big of a deal though. I wasn't given a metric of how big of a deal would be the right size for me to post, so I winged it. Perhaps I overestimated the size of the deal. Anyway, I still think that undirected relationshipfilter is bad for AskMe, but I was really just wondering if I was crazy or not and if others thought the same. This isn't a face-saving thread, and I feel genuinely terrible for anonymous guy.
posted by mullingitover at 11:39 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
My feelings weren't hurt, but I was told to come here if it was a 'big deal' so here I am. It's not that big of a deal though. I wasn't given a metric of how big of a deal would be the right size for me to post, so I winged it. Perhaps I overestimated the size of the deal. Anyway, I still think that undirected relationshipfilter is bad for AskMe, but I was really just wondering if I was crazy or not and if others thought the same. This isn't a face-saving thread, and I feel genuinely terrible for anonymous guy.
posted by mullingitover at 11:39 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
The question is clear as a bell: What should her high-cost behaviors be? And there are some good answers in there.
But the larger point: My god, what a heartbreaking thread. I've been married nearly 20 years, and this is my biggest fear. As others have said, hang in there.
posted by jbickers at 4:26 AM on May 6, 2009
But the larger point: My god, what a heartbreaking thread. I've been married nearly 20 years, and this is my biggest fear. As others have said, hang in there.
posted by jbickers at 4:26 AM on May 6, 2009
[Caveat: I know what you're going to say, so please don't tell me what I don't want to hear. Also, I'm already doing the alternative advice you were going to give me.]
The reason the OP specified that he's not going to get a divorce, and that they're already in therapy, is that everyone always suggests those things to relationshipfilter questions, and they don't apply to his particular situation. How does that invalidate the question?
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:23 AM on May 6, 2009
The reason the OP specified that he's not going to get a divorce, and that they're already in therapy, is that everyone always suggests those things to relationshipfilter questions, and they don't apply to his particular situation. How does that invalidate the question?
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:23 AM on May 6, 2009
I've been married nearly 20 years, and this is my biggest fear.
Really? I fear the death of my SO more. An affair, as painful as that would be, still leaves her alive to occasionally talk to or at least leaves possibilities. Death is final, there are no more chances.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [6 favorites]
Really? I fear the death of my SO more. An affair, as painful as that would be, still leaves her alive to occasionally talk to or at least leaves possibilities. Death is final, there are no more chances.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [6 favorites]
It's pretty clear that the OP posed a token question and is mainly posting to chat about relationship drama. Is this really what AskMe is for?
I had the distinct impression that the OP was hawking key logging software.
posted by mattoxic at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2009
I had the distinct impression that the OP was hawking key logging software.
posted by mattoxic at 5:51 AM on May 6, 2009
Ugh. The posting by the wife muddies the water much more in that thread. I think there was a defensible question in there at the start, but couples counseling is not AskMe's strong suit.
posted by OmieWise at 6:17 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 6:17 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow. That last response is just... It just seems so casual, so blasé.
I'm probably just projecting onto it; it's hard to read tone sometimes on the Internet.
posted by ODiV at 7:36 AM on May 6, 2009
I'm probably just projecting onto it; it's hard to read tone sometimes on the Internet.
posted by ODiV at 7:36 AM on May 6, 2009
It really pissed me off to have the wife post in that thread. I too found the tone blasé. It feels like a violation of trust, somehow, to be concentrating on the problem of one poster, and then having the subject of the post just drop in to say hi, and thanks for your comments.
I think there's a LOT more going on here than we might know. Hell, maybe they're writing a novel or something - but I'm starting to smell a rat.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:02 AM on May 6, 2009
I think there's a LOT more going on here than we might know. Hell, maybe they're writing a novel or something - but I'm starting to smell a rat.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:02 AM on May 6, 2009
I had the distinct impression that the OP was hawking key logging software.
I'm not the only huge cynic here! Woohoo! Though, to be fair, I wasn't sure if they were trying to sell key logging software, or that book.
posted by inigo2 at 8:02 AM on May 6, 2009
I'm not the only huge cynic here! Woohoo! Though, to be fair, I wasn't sure if they were trying to sell key logging software, or that book.
posted by inigo2 at 8:02 AM on May 6, 2009
Ya'll hush up, this story just got good!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:24 AM on May 6, 2009
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:24 AM on May 6, 2009
It really pissed me off to have the wife post in that thread. I too found the tone blasé. It feels like a violation of trust, somehow, to be concentrating on the problem of one poster, and then having the subject of the post just drop in to say hi, and thanks for your comments.
....Interesting; I had the opposite reaction. I took it as a sign that the wife was getting really pro-active in wanting to make her amends. Maybe asking to see what her husband had posted in the AskMe thread was a little boundary-over-steppy, but I have a hunch it came from a good "wow, I fucked up, I want to know what to do to fix this" place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
....Interesting; I had the opposite reaction. I took it as a sign that the wife was getting really pro-active in wanting to make her amends. Maybe asking to see what her husband had posted in the AskMe thread was a little boundary-over-steppy, but I have a hunch it came from a good "wow, I fucked up, I want to know what to do to fix this" place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've been in an extremely similar situation to the OP. So, from that perspective, this may not be chatfilter, but it's also not a question. He is looking for confirmation that he has been betrayed and that everything his wife has done was completely unjustified. He wants confirmation that the break down of his relationship is a one way street and that he just got run over. I think it's a phase; eventually he will gain perspective, and if he wants the relationship to survive, he's going to have to figure out what his wife needs and then of course figure out how to give it to her.
I feel for the guy; this episode will probably haunt him for the duration of the relationship, but the sooner he stops feeling sorry for himself, the sooner he can focus on making his wife happy.
posted by Brocktoon at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2009
I feel for the guy; this episode will probably haunt him for the duration of the relationship, but the sooner he stops feeling sorry for himself, the sooner he can focus on making his wife happy.
posted by Brocktoon at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2009
I agree with EmpressCallipygos: it's a messy business no matter what, but I think it was valuable to hear from the other party, and I feel like they might possibly have a chance to get through this, though I wouldn't bet money on it.
It feels like a violation of trust, somehow, to be concentrating on the problem of one poster, and then having the subject of the post just drop in to say hi, and thanks for your comments.
In the first place, that's not what she said, and in the second place, you think it's better to get only one side of a story?
posted by languagehat at 9:40 AM on May 6, 2009
It feels like a violation of trust, somehow, to be concentrating on the problem of one poster, and then having the subject of the post just drop in to say hi, and thanks for your comments.
In the first place, that's not what she said, and in the second place, you think it's better to get only one side of a story?
posted by languagehat at 9:40 AM on May 6, 2009
I like her post. He said from the get-go that they were reading it together. I thought her post answered some questions and confirmed some assumptions people had had.
posted by salvia at 9:44 AM on May 6, 2009
posted by salvia at 9:44 AM on May 6, 2009
...the sooner he stops feeling sorry for himself, the sooner he can focus on making his wife happy.
What?
posted by Mister_A at 11:05 AM on May 6, 2009
What?
posted by Mister_A at 11:05 AM on May 6, 2009
There is a whole bunch of crap in there not answering the question, in that case.
Indeed there is.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:43 PM on May 6, 2009
Indeed there is.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:43 PM on May 6, 2009
I can't believe no one has responded to her response. Then again, AWK. WARD.
posted by desjardins at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2009
posted by desjardins at 1:50 PM on May 6, 2009
I posted "So, how YOU doin?" but someone instadeleted it. Nitty mods.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:14 PM on May 6, 2009
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:14 PM on May 6, 2009
So, how YOU doin?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:21 PM on May 6, 2009
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:21 PM on May 6, 2009
Liar.
I picture jessamyn doing that in Carol Kane's voice from "The Princess Bride".
posted by GuyZero at 2:24 PM on May 6, 2009
I picture jessamyn doing that in Carol Kane's voice from "The Princess Bride".
posted by GuyZero at 2:24 PM on May 6, 2009
I can't believe no one has responded to her response. Then again, AWK. WARD.
Her response turned the thread grossly voyeuristic while her side makes him look not so angelic as implied originally and made me want ask "Are you familiar with birth control? If not, have you considered getting your tubes tied? And what the fuck is up with the non-traditional schooling of kids?"
There's a fuller story and it doesn't sound pretty.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:44 PM on May 6, 2009
Her response turned the thread grossly voyeuristic while her side makes him look not so angelic as implied originally and made me want ask "Are you familiar with birth control? If not, have you considered getting your tubes tied? And what the fuck is up with the non-traditional schooling of kids?"
There's a fuller story and it doesn't sound pretty.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:44 PM on May 6, 2009
Brandon Blatcher: not sure what non-traditional schooling of kids has to do with things here. Even if the couple has no pedagogical reasons to go non-traditional, and there's nothing wrong if they do, (and who says what traditional schooling means anyway?), it seems clear that they are in a sucky school district and are sending their kids to a private school as a result. There are public schools out there that any sane parent with the means to do so will do their darndest to avoid. Should the private school option become completely unworkable due to financial reasons, they said they're looking at homeschooling or moving to a better district as alternatives. Nothing fucked up about that.
Nope, nothing pretty here at all, but birth control is hardly the biggest of their problems going forward...
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on May 6, 2009
Nope, nothing pretty here at all, but birth control is hardly the biggest of their problems going forward...
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on May 6, 2009
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posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:50 PM on May 5, 2009