a/s/l/xl?

June 5, 2009 11:50 AM

We're about to order up some MeFi t-shirts and are interested in the size distribution of the potential t-shirt purchasing population of MeFi. I know it's a bit of a personal question but if you've ever bought a shirt off a website and are considering buying one from here, drop into this thread and fill out the form on top, or enter your answer directly at Google Spreadsheets here. I just don't want to get in the position of having too many of any one size on hand.

(questionaire done)

posted by mathowie to MetaFilter-related at 11:50 AM (209 comments total)

Shit, there's no way it seems to prevent multiple submissions, so please, only fill it out once (even though setting a script to answer 15,000 for XS would be hilarious, please don't).
posted by mathowie at 11:53 AM on June 5

What if I wrote a script that submitted 15,000 answers, distributed in a false normalized distribution, centered on men's M instead of L? Hah, you'll be stuck with ten extra mediums! Gotcha!
posted by Plutor at 12:08 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

Rats I wanted to monitor the results as they came in so that I could judge the shit out of all the people here.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:09 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Do you perhaps mean women's 2102?
posted by gingerbeer at 12:09 PM on June 5

Dang. No womens plus-sizes. Sadness.
posted by sarcasticah at 12:10 PM on June 5 [5 favorites]

What do the ladies' shirts look like? I googled and got 50,000 million hits for Palin 2012.
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:10 PM on June 5

Thanks gingerbeer
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:10 PM on June 5

The women's t goes up to 2XL, sarcasticah.
If that is the right model, size chart is here, for the ladies who like actual numbers.
posted by gingerbeer at 12:15 PM on June 5

So are the shirts going to be blue? Any chance of getting some of the other subsite colors too?

(I ask this, because I am a strange, ethnic mongrel-woman who looks good in exactly four colors, one of with is MeTa gray.)
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 12:16 PM on June 5

Done and HOORAY FOR T-SHIRTS!
posted by snsranch at 12:18 PM on June 5

I wanna see what they are gonna look like.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:20 PM on June 5

Just reminded me of this.

Do you have the stats on the last shirts you sold, Matt?
posted by ODiV at 12:23 PM on June 5

Having weird things in MeTa threads makes me itchy. First #1 makes a thing that looks like a link but isn't a link, and now a whole giant poll thing. Someone hold me.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:23 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

Also, I'm eagerly anticipating a new Metafilter shirt.
posted by ODiV at 12:24 PM on June 5

Agh. Want shirt but boycott American Apparel. Bummer.
posted by batmonkey at 12:27 PM on June 5 [7 favorites]

I want one for each of my sockpuppets, so 15,000 is about right. Unfortunately, we're all different sizes.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:27 PM on June 5 [5 favorites]

As someone whose draconian firewall at work thinks all things Google (except for, you know, straight-up google.com) are EVIL! and create VULNERABILITIES! and MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS!, I think the embedded poll is pretty danged cool.
posted by shiu mai baby at 12:27 PM on June 5

Woody Allen asked me to tell you he takes a medium.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:28 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

I... I voted twice. I submitted the T-shirt size I usually wear, and then I saw the note about snug American Apparel sizes, so I submitted the form again, one size up. I've ruined everything. I'm sorry. So very, very sorry.

I'll show myself out.

*gunshot*
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:28 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

So we'll put you down for none then, FoB?
...

Hello?
posted by ODiV at 12:30 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

16/f/ca/yes plz
posted by greekphilosophy at 12:32 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

I think there's a problem with the form. I can put in my size okay, but it doesn't ask me how many wolves I would like on the shirt.
posted by ODiV at 12:35 PM on June 5 [25 favorites]

Any chance I could talk you into printing them on the 50/50 or TriBlend t-shirts instead of all-cotton ones?
posted by box at 12:36 PM on June 5

As a mefite who frequently wears shirts, I approve of this.
posted by owtytrof at 12:39 PM on June 5

How the heck do you have men's XS shirts but not women's XS? Weird.
posted by desjardins at 12:40 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

How the heck do you have men's XS shirts but not women's XS?

Because you can never have an XS of women.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:42 PM on June 5 [43 favorites]

I can only buy shirts in "chillingly irregular" sizes, unfortunately.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:42 PM on June 5

Any chance I could talk you into printing them on the 50/50 or TriBlend t-shirts instead of all-cotton ones?

Oh please for the love of natural fibers NO. Poly-blend-whatever shirts feel like sandpaper in comparison to straight-up cotton.
posted by shiu mai baby at 12:44 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

What kind of neckline are we talking about here for the lady shirts?

[TOTALLY ANTI-CREWNECKIST.]
posted by grapefruitmoon at 12:45 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Echoing others... can we get a hint of design? I mean, I'll *probably* want one, but it'd be nice to see it first.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:46 PM on June 5

Want shirt but boycott American Apparel. Bummer.

I know Dov Charney is a totally fucking scuzzy douchebag and all, but since the alternative at that price point is likely to be made by de facto slave laborers, don't you think AA is the lesser of two evils?

I mean, yes, sexism, misogyny and harassment are without doubt objectively wrong, but I am of the opinion that slavery is wrong-er.
posted by dersins at 12:47 PM on June 5

I won't whore my body out for you Matt!

Unless the shirts look cool.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:48 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Visiting the AA website, I think there was a typo in women's shirts because 2102 exists, but not 2012.

Also: DAMN YOU, CREW NECK.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 12:49 PM on June 5

This isn't gonna go on my profile page, is it...?
posted by not_on_display at 12:49 PM on June 5

This isn't gonna go on my profile page, is it...?
posted by not_on_display

Apparantly not.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:50 PM on June 5

Any chance I could talk you into printing them on the 50/50 or TriBlend t-shirts instead of all-cotton ones?

You people need to read your Leviticus. What's next? Gay marriage?
posted by ODiV at 12:53 PM on June 5 [10 favorites]

Also: DAMN YOU, CREW NECK.

Agreed. For a person of my body conformation, that's the kind of t-shirt that has to be cut up a bit before it looks alright-- and it might not, even after that.

I'll be willing to buy one and see what I can do with it, though. Especially if #1 makes a gray one.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 12:59 PM on June 5

How many colours will be on the shirts? 6?
posted by Elmore at 1:00 PM on June 5 [5 favorites]

+1 more for an option of not having a crew neck in the women's.
posted by readery at 1:07 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Will the shirt be available in a more professional white?
posted by coryinabox at 1:08 PM on June 5

Could we see the t-shirts? Please?
posted by boo_radley at 1:10 PM on June 5

Goddammit. I was going to put something about there needing to be a t-shirt on the MetaFizing thread. I woulda been the first one, too. I woulda looked like a frikken genius.

...I don't suppose there's any chance we'll be getting a

[+]

shirt? (or even a

[!]

shirt?)
posted by Deathalicious at 1:16 PM on June 5

Yeah, I meant the 2102, not the 2012 shirt. We couldn't go with scoop neck/shorter sleeve Women's versions because they don't come in the color we'll be printing in (Slate Gray, pretty close to MetaTalk gray). They only offer the sizes I provided in that color, for those shirts (XS in women is only available in other colors, etc).
posted by mathowie at 1:19 PM on June 5

It's Raining Florence Henderson, are you camping here refreshing madly looking for joke opportunities?

If so, please carry on. If not, why not? Please only vote once.
posted by davejay at 1:19 PM on June 5

I sort of want a BOYZONE t-shirt.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:20 PM on June 5

Deathalicious, mattdidthat has already made the shirt you want.
posted by ocherdraco at 1:25 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]

For me, slightly snug is a whole size in AA. I have a Medium from somewhere that I'll never be able to wear.
posted by smackfu at 1:28 PM on June 5

+1 anticrewneckery
posted by elizardbits at 1:32 PM on June 5

I will pre-wear anyone's shirt for them, $5/each. You too can have that too-cool hipster rumpled and stained look.
posted by blue_beetle at 1:41 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

THESE ARE THE REGIME SHIRTS!

I'll only buy Mattdidthat's REVOLUTION t-shirts. You bunch of shills. You sicken me.
posted by qvantamon at 1:45 PM on June 5

I'll buy anything not black.
posted by null terminated at 1:48 PM on June 5

Someone hold me.
posted by Rock Steady

Hold you steady?
posted by Night_owl at 1:48 PM on June 5

I usually go for Mediums but AA shirts are tight...they do that bunchy thing under the armpits that drives me nuts. It's a conundrum 'cause I hate when Large shirts are so long...
posted by chococat at 1:49 PM on June 5

Will there be XXXS size T-Shirts for sockpuppets?
posted by Elmore at 1:50 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

oooh - metafilter SOCKS that you can make your own sockpuppets from! Only $4.99! That's what we need.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:54 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

I also made these for the New York contingent. (Here's the inspiration.)
posted by mattdidthat at 1:55 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]

The women's t goes up to 2XL, sarcasticah.

Which, converting AA sizing/cut to normal sizes, means it goes all the way up to... about L.

Buying AA stuff gives me a tummy ache.
posted by zennie at 1:56 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

Are you also gonna print 'em in regular ol' blue?
posted by ageispolis at 2:00 PM on June 5

Extra Fucking Small. Extra Mother Fucking Small.

Also, they are cotton shirts, so even if XXL is a bit small, won't they just stretch out? American Apparel shirts are nice, even if whats-his-dude is kind of creepy. Their ads also make me feel funny in my pants, but in a good way.

XS XS XS
posted by chunking express at 2:10 PM on June 5

I usually go for Mediums but AA shirts are tight...they do that bunchy thing under the armpits that drives me nuts. It's a conundrum 'cause I hate when Large shirts are so long...

My friend just had some t-shirts tailored at the cleaners...
posted by shothotbot at 2:18 PM on June 5

I think this is a great idea. Mainly because the stained white wife-beater with "offical Mefi shirt" written on it in Sharpie hasn't been impressing people the way I had hoped.
posted by quin at 2:21 PM on June 5

won't they just stretch out?

AA shirts that are too small tend to make you look like a sausage through the chest.
posted by smackfu at 2:21 PM on June 5

AA shirts that are too small tend to make you look like a sausage through the chest.

But the taters presentation is hardcore.
posted by carsonb at 2:30 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

To counter all the haters in this thread, I'm happy to say that AA shirts fit me pretty well and I don't mind the crew neck that much either. The softness/quality of the shirt is certainly a lot better than any place that sells me a t-shirt that's not AA, and I'm happy that their girl's shirts aren't too boxy. Oh, and if I weren't sucking up enough already, I think the slate gray is a nice color. Woo?
posted by booknerd at 2:39 PM on June 5

Travelfilter white!
posted by R. Mutt at 2:44 PM on June 5

For the other plus-sized women out there, I usually buy a 2X shirt but looking at the AA size charts I decided to go with a man's 2X. And if it's a bit boxy, long, not quite curvy enough, well, it's a t-shirt, not a wedding dress.
posted by angiep at 2:47 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Personal story time: Before I went back to grad school, I was an apprentice in a screen printing shop for 16 months. Really, really, really, great gig if you can somehow justify making $7.50/hr with a marketable college degree. Anyway, in addition to the larger orders, we also printed a lot of local stuff. I was always fascinated by the order distribution for different groups and how they were estimated.

For instance, I learned that the distribution was different in high school foot ball t-shirt orders for AA and AAA division schools. For every dozen shirts they might order 1L, 5XL, 4XXL, and 2XXXL for AA and another XXL and XXXL for AAA. Baseball teams had more large shirts. Cheerleaders got different estimates than softball players, and so on. This all seemed pretty routine, if not fascinating, until I saw my first volunteer fire department order: 1XL, 4XXL, 5XXXL, 1XXXXL, 1XXXXXL.

Every volunteer fire department order I ever printed had a mode that was XXXL (which fits an average height male about 240-300 lbs in the shirts they would order). We printed probably 15% 4X-7X for volunteer fire fighters. I asked my boss about it and he said the VFDs in the area were social clubs, some of which even had their own members-only bars. The number of first-responders among them were actually pretty small and worked very hard.
posted by mrmojoflying at 3:10 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]

For the other plus-sized women out there, I usually buy a 2X shirt but looking at the AA size charts I decided to go with a man's 2X. And if it's a bit boxy, long, not quite curvy enough, well, it's a t-shirt, not a wedding dress.

From what I remember AA men's shirts are cut a little longer and slimmer than Gildan, FOTL. Jersey, and other bigger manufacturers. As a man, I'd order a size larger and expect it to be quite a bit longer than a typical T.
posted by mrmojoflying at 3:13 PM on June 5

Dude, I am totally filling it out twice because I won't know which whim I'll follow: Men's L (sine they run small, I usually order Men's M) or Women's XL. I do't trust women's sizes and cuts, especially when there's logo placing going on. Boobs are too big a variable for the F-gendered tee to be worth my srtorial investigation.

And then there's the factor of me being the same T-size (if he lets me dress him up in tight tees which he does) as my mefi-honey. But then what if we want to BOTH be in uniform? Oh but then, I have my old one still...

Damn I hate shopping.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:15 PM on June 5

MetaFilter feel that most folks are honest, and they wouldn't ask us to take something back unless it was really necessary. All we ask is that you treat us like you would want to be treated if you were in our place. The following are our thoughts, and the reasoning behind them. Retail stores have taught a whole generation of consumers that it is OK to buy three sizes and bring two back rather than take the time to try them on in the store. That may get customer satisfaction, but it is very wasteful and costly. If we had the wild markups those stores do, we could do that also. But if we want to keep offering the prices we do (or just to continue to stay in business, for that matter), we can't do that. Please let us emphasize that our goal is not to make money on shirts - just not to lose money.*

* Not actual MetaFilter thoughts or commentary. It's actually copied from somewhere else.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:44 PM on June 5

AskMe green? With a question mark on the back?

pretty please?
posted by freya_lamb at 3:46 PM on June 5

Want shirt but boycott American Apparel.

Holy fuck. Those links are completely convincing and I'm now boycotting American Apparel. Seriously; check this interview bit from the Feministe link:

Charney’s rant against the “lawsuit culture” of the West seems convenient, considering the man is rumoured to sleep with each and every one of his female models, and once masturbated in front of an interviewer from Jane Magazine.

He pursues his point. “Out of a thousand sexual harassment claims how many do you think are exploitive? There are almost no sexual harassment charges from men against women. They’re not acceptable – it’s considered that only women are the victims.

“Women initiate most domestic violence, yet out of a thousand cases of domestic violence maybe one is involving a man.” And this, Charney decries, “has made a victim culture out of women.”

What a total ass.

If there's any way to avoid using AA for the new shirts, I hope someone finds a way to do it.
posted by mediareport at 3:52 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

So we're reduced to either slave labor made shirts or shirts that support an utter douchebag? Great dilemma.

Any place I can check out the shirt design to see if its something I'd actually buy and wear?
posted by fenriq at 3:55 PM on June 5

I like blends (though only for t-shirts!) and I don't like crew necks. I prefer sexism to slave labor. Beaches are great, but long walks make me antsy. Early twenties/f/Philly. Email in profile, folks.
posted by youarenothere at 4:00 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

How about All American Clothing as a possible alternative? All the feel-good patriotism without the douchbaggery of American Apparel.
posted by fenriq at 4:01 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

I'll buy anything black. Sorry.

Fellow plus size grrrls: they are not kidding about "snug". I have a few 2X women's AA shirts and while they technically fit they're kind of Hooters-ish if you get my drift. The men's XL is a pretty good fit for me, and the slim cut makes it more girly (less boxy) than most men's shirts.

Yeah, the AA guy is a jerk but...how many companies are headed up by jerks?
posted by JoanArkham at 4:06 PM on June 5

Guys, do we have to wallow in self-parody? It's a t-shirt.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:07 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]

I've never understood the fad of wearing t-shirts that have logos or slogans or whatever on them. Why do people do it?
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 4:14 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

how many companies are headed up by jerks?

I know of seven on my street alone! And I live on the right side of the tracks!
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 4:15 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

If there's any way to avoid using AA for the new shirts, I hope someone finds a way to do it.

Honestly? Dov Charney is a complete and utter ass, but this line of thought I will never understand.

Do you assume that the CEOs of other large apparel companines are at home screenprinting "THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE" on their wares? Why is it so suprising that the male head of a major company is a sexist brute? There is raging misogyny throughout the clothing and fashion industries, and it's all wrong. But not all of it is from a company whose factory workers are making a living wage with benefits and which supports immigration rights.

And the alarm surrounding the fact that they use sex to advertise? This is offensive to people all of a sudden? Of course they use sex in their advertising. It's advertising.

So yes. I would rather the support the company which has some ethics rather than none. Of course, I'd also like to give Mr. Charney a swift punch to the dick. Make that two.
posted by youarenothere at 4:17 PM on June 5 [7 favorites]

You should make a few specialty T sort of things to fit people's dogs. That would make for some conversation starters, even if you had to put the logo or whatever on the back. You could pair them up in various sizes of regular human T shirts.

You could even make little hamster/ferret/gerbil shirts. The possibilities are endless . . .

Nah, bad idea. Forget it.
posted by metagnathous at 4:22 PM on June 5

slave labor made shirts

AA's worker relations might be more complex than you think. If anyone cares, here's what looks like a good summary:

The Anti-Union Workers’ Utopia

There is no denying that American Apparel’s textile workers in Los Angeles are among the highest-paid workers remaining in U.S. basic-clothing production, and this has led some supporters of American Apparel’s ethics to conclude that their workers would not benefit from unionization. On the other hand, high-wage skilled workers have frequently been at the forefront of the unionization of their industries. In, say, the 1920s, non-union Ford autoworkers were among the best-paid manufacturing workers in the world. But the cyclical nature of automobile employment meant a Ford worker’s life was punctuated by periodic layoffs, re-hiring uncertainty, and a constantly accelerating pace of work. These concerns, relating to issues of job security and power in the workplace, led autoworkers to attempt to unionize in the face of a sophisticated and intransigent anti-union battle by their patron, Henry Ford – and many of these same issues brought a trickle of American Apparel workers to the Union of Needletrades and Industrial Textile Employees (UNITE) in the summer of 2003...

In the interest of making space for workers to talk freely with each other and union organizers, UNITE appealed to American Apparel’s much-advertised ethics, asking for neutral access to the facility. But these overtures were rebuffed by Charney, whose enlightened personal philosophy (touted on the company’s web site as a “hyper capitalist-socialist fusion”) dwells more on liberating his sexuality than on union discussion as a civil right. Immediately after denying the union access or neutrality at the factory, American Apparel’s stylish management executives began what the union calls a very traditional anti-union campaign of misinformation and fear. “People were intimidated and told things that weren’t true by the bosses, and soon nobody would talk. We couldn’t get to the parking lot, either; the boss said they’d arrest us.”

According to signed affidavits in an unfair-labor-practices charge filed by the union and settled by American Apparel, the company’s management campaign included surveillance of employees, captive-audience anti-union meetings, interrogation of workers about their support for the union, and a campaign of misleading information and intimidation. But the true blow came when workers were made to attend, on paid time, an anti-union rally that management staged for reporters in the building’s parking lot. Charney, however, saw the beauty of workers’ self-organization in the scene: “Workers organized other workers to write letters to the union, sign a petition and demonstrate against the union in front of our building,” Charney wrote in a letter to the Nation magazine in September 2004...

In the wake of negative publicity around the union fight, Charney has decided to “de-emphasize” the sweatshop-free part of American Apparel’s image. Backing away from his boasts about keeping production in the United States at high wages, Charney now makes more modest claims: “If we open a factory in China, we will sell our T-shirts in China, and we will pay at least the U.S.-dollar minimum wage of $5.15 an hour. It is a new U.S. imperialism.”

AA's site offers this somewhat more sympathetic piece:

Q: You advertise heavily the fact that you are sweatshop-free.

A: I think it is a secondary appeal and I'm getting a little bored with it myself. It's too PC. It's like — big deal. I'm de-emphasizing it. There are other companies that pay crappy wages that are winning awards for their financial performance. I want to create a new platform for the future. It's less about sweatshop-free because that sounds like charity. It's more about a program of efficiency that dwarfs full capitalism and creates the new form of capitalism.

Q: You have come under fire from the Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees for being a non-union shop.

A: First of all, we support our workers' rights to appoint a union to represent their interests. If my workers wanted a union, they would have one. We even offered the union an election. They declined it, because they would have been embarrassed by the results. People discovered it involves dues and would institutionalize many elements of the workplace. Hey, if my paying good wages and treating workers well frustrates the union's efforts, that's not my problem.

Q: So there aren't any anti-union efforts at American Apparel?

A: No. To me, an anti-union effort is about frustrating workers rights to unionize by firing workers or limiting their job opportunities or threatening to close down a factory. The concept of a union is a check against greed on the part of the employer. If I really wanted to be motivated by greed alone and pay the lowest possible wage, I wouldn't be working in this factory. To say, "Let's appoint a union to represent the workers even further" may put into disequilibrium the delicate balance that I've created between all the parties.

The masturbation incident, from a fascinating 2005 article:

It doesn't help Charney's case that his stores are papered with Penthouse and Oui magazine snapshots and that he happily admits to having sex with his employees. Nor does it help that he brags about his penchant for masturbating in front of women. So much so, that he masturbated in front of reporter Claudine Ko while she interviewed him for Jane magazine. Ko reports in Jane:

"'Can I?' he says adjusting himself in his chair. And thus begins another compulsive episode of what Dov likes to call "self-pleasure," during which we casually carry on our interview, discussing things like business models, hiring practices and the stupidity of focus groups. 'Masturbation in front of women is underrated,' Dov explains to me later over the phone. 'It's much easier on the woman. She gets to watch, it's a sensual experience that doesn't involve a man violating a woman, yet once the man has his release, it's over and you can talk to the guy.' Soon enough he loosens his Pierre Cardin belt. 'Are you going to do it again?' I ask."

In Ko's article, she asserts that she witnessed Charney jerk off more than eight times in one month. However, according to jewlicious.com, Ko added later "Whenever I see a picture of Dov, I can't help but smile and think fondly of him. That reporting experience was fun, engaging, stimulating and interesting. Dov Charney is a mad man and I like that."

Again, just some info for anyone who, like me, is now curious about this.

Alternative Apparel, maybe?
posted by mediareport at 4:26 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

I like just plain old Hanes Beefy T's

I also like saying "Beefy".
posted by pearlybob at 4:49 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Guys, do we have to wallow in self-parody? It's a t-shirt.

So are we supposed to let all this self-parody just sit there? What a waste!
posted by brundlefly at 4:50 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Self-parody on the Internet is underrated. It's much easier on everybody. Everybody gets to watch, it's a sharing experience that doesn't involve callouts, yet once the parody reaches its climax, it's over and you can go back to hating each other and being conspicuously bored with each other's favorite things. I just made fun of myself 8 times! And... I'm spent!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:01 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]

Yeah, we didn't want to go with American Apparel, I was pretty much against it from the start, but I've tried the other AA-style shirts and I've never found one that was as soft and comfy or fit as well (and didn't have monster large scratchy tags on the neck which drive me nuts).

We get the AA shirts cheap, they're made in the US with non-sweatshop labor and they seem to be de-emphasizing their crazy founder's involvement with the business.

If there was something better than AA, I'd go with it, because yeah their founder squicks me out as well, but if we go with AA we get some quality stuff that fits well and is really cheap to boot. It's really the difference between being able to sell a shirt for $15 shipped vs. $20 shipped if it wasn't AA.
posted by mathowie at 5:07 PM on June 5

I've switched all the shirts in my shop from American Apparel to Hanes Beefy-Ts.
posted by mattdidthat at 5:10 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

Actually, if we don't go with AA shirts, the alternatives could push the prices up towards more like $25 each with shipping included.
posted by mathowie at 5:12 PM on June 5

On the sizing front, there are charts for Men's/Unisex Shirts and Women's Shirts on the AA website.

Looks like the M I entered on Matt's spreadsheet might actually fit me (unlike the Corporate-branded M I have here that I could wear as a dress. You know, if I wanted to. Which I don't. Honest... :-) )
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 5:16 PM on June 5

For the other plus-sized women out there, I usually buy a 2X shirt but looking at the AA size charts I decided to go with a man's 2X. And if it's a bit boxy, long, not quite curvy enough, well, it's a t-shirt, not a wedding dress.

The problem with AA's men's shirts on the girlies, is that they taper from the chest. While my chest appreciates the roominess, they end up riding up to my waist no matter what I try, because they're not meant to accommodate people with hips. And no one wants to see even a fraction of an inch of my stomach peeking out between my pants and my shirt. Really.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:29 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

...once masturbated in front of an interviewer from Jane Magazine.

To be fair, who hasn't done this?

And maybe I can finally fulfill my dream! (self-link)
posted by cjorgensen at 5:29 PM on June 5

I am only one data point, but I can put a price on not buying from a skeeve-ball misogynist. I would gladly pay it.
posted by ersatzkat at 5:58 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]

Gotta save 10 bucks and support a sleazy scumbag, I guess. You can keep your shirt, thanks.
posted by dead cousin ted at 6:00 PM on June 5

On sizing, please make either a babydoll T or a women's XS. I'm a small girl and can never find these sizes anywhere. -sniffsniff-
posted by biochemist at 6:03 PM on June 5

As I said, I didn't want to go with AA from the start, so I'll keep looking for alternatives. I hate Hanes Beefy Ts and Glidan's, they both fit like potato sacks on me.
posted by mathowie at 6:05 PM on June 5

I've never understood the fad of wearing t-shirts that have logos or slogans or whatever on them. Why do people do it?

I vote this to the be the slogan on MeFi T-shirts.
posted by never used baby shoes at 6:07 PM on June 5 [7 favorites]

Actual potato sacks would be a good alternative - they fit me perfectly.
posted by nowonmai at 6:10 PM on June 5

I, for one, could only care a little less about whether or not the founder of a company is squicky or not. But Matt, couldn't you have predicted the controversy? Or are you depending on it.
posted by Plutor at 6:10 PM on June 5

I've switched all the shirts in my shop from American Apparel to Hanes Beefy-Ts. 100% cotton heavyweight T-shirts by Fruit of the Loom (men's) and Anvil (women's).

God damn, Spreadshirt's interface is maddeningly tedious.
posted by mattdidthat at 6:11 PM on June 5

I've never understood the fad of wearing t-shirts that have logos or slogans or whatever on them. Why do people do it?

This is what I want on my shirt.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:17 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]

I want the "Meta" Mets shirt in a jersey. Will pay xtra. Only problem is, I can't wear it around my mom (huuuuge Mets fan) or else she'll ask me about the site. And then I'll have to destroy MetaFilter the way I now have to destroy facebook. By putting everyone's grandma on the site.
posted by Eideteker at 6:19 PM on June 5

I will buy a shirt, so long as it's made from less than 50% orphan skin. A man's gotta draw a line somewhere.
posted by blenderfish at 6:23 PM on June 5

This controversy kind of gives your headline/title a bit of a new spin.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:24 PM on June 5

I am only one data point, but I can put a price on not buying from a skeeve-ball misogynist. I would gladly pay it.

Good for you - please go find a T-shirt company that mass produces their goods and runs their factories off of fresh air and unicorn farts and only employs highly paid artisan piece workers and get back to us, K?
posted by tristeza at 6:32 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]

Well, that's good and condescending, tristeza. Good work there. I don't know about you, but the only t-shirt company CEO I've ever heard of is, oddly enough, Dov Charney. You think there's a reason for that, maybe? What I'm saying is that, yeah the other t-shirt CEOs could be women-hating pigs, but none of them ACTIVELY ADVERTISE THAT FACT AND BOAST ABOUT IT.
posted by dead cousin ted at 6:39 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]

Most of the teeshirts I buy online are Bella instead of AA. They fit very nicely and are generally slightly cheaper. But they also stretch out really fast so I can only wear them a couple of months before they look like a raggedy sack so I go for AA when I can. The quality really is better. But then I like the crewneck, hate the scoop neck/shorter sleeves version (only flattering on a stick), fit a standard size, and much prefer 100% cotton over anything *shrug*. Plus a five dollar increase for you is ten of my dollars (which is significant) and I probably can't afford a shirt anyway because of international postage. (Seriously, please don't gouge us on the postage)
posted by shelleycat at 6:40 PM on June 5

I realize the guy is a creep but it's not like anyone is asking you guys to take him in as a roommate.
posted by geoff. at 6:41 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Not a fan of AA, either for their fit or their founder, but I missed the last round of shirts, so at this point, I'll take what's offered. But if there were a non-AA option, even if it cost more, I'd do that instead.
posted by rtha at 6:44 PM on June 5

Be still my heart, it's tristeza.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:54 PM on June 5

If you got the shirts from No Sweat, assuming an order of 150, 2-color print on colored shirt would be around $9 each - would that provide enough profit margin to keep the servers humming and Cortex in donuts? (I do not know how much those big donuts cost)

(No Sweat is union-made in the US and Canada and fair trade as well, AFAIK)

and they make a damn good black zipup hoodie

posted by jtron at 7:17 PM on June 5

You can also check out this place. I happen to know the print manager and owner and you might get a small deal since they're not in their busy months.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:25 PM on June 5

I'm a normal Men's XL, which in American Apparel sizing would be, what, 3XL? I have no idea.

Also, I don't mind if it makes money for a compulsive masturbator, so long as he isn't in the habit of doing his thing on the shop floor.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:05 PM on June 5

looks at t-shirt... EW! EW! TAKEITOFFTAKEITOFF!
posted by qvantamon at 8:07 PM on June 5

a company whose factory workers are making a living wage with benefits and which supports immigration rights.

For me, youarenothere, the issue is simply this: Can we find "a company whose factory workers are making a living wage with benefits and which supports immigration rights" whose founder is *not* someone who makes moronic anti-woman comments in interviews? I mean, "Women initiate most domestic violence"? Come on, that's just despicably ignorant garbage. It's hardly too much to ask that the site perhaps maybe might could take a moment or two to look around and see if we can find a company whose founder doesn't spew that kind of bullshit. Is that possible?

If the answer is "Gosh, with a bit of digging, perhaps yes" then I really don't see what your objection can possibly be to those of us raising questions in this thread.
posted by mediareport at 8:24 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

We couldn't go with scoop neck/shorter sleeve Women's versions because they don't come in the color we'll be printing in (Slate Gray, pretty close to MetaTalk gray).

Arghh. I look awful in a crew-neck. I suppose I can always alter the neckline if I buy a shirt. Depends how cool the design is, I guess.
posted by orange swan at 8:30 PM on June 5

AA's x-smalls/smalls are pretty much the only tshirt that is currently made that actually fits me and seems to be one of the few companies out there that actually considers fit people in their design. Their CEO is a sleezeball but the company puts out a quality product. I support your choice mathowie.
posted by Stynxno at 8:34 PM on June 5

I buy my Ts at AA.
100% cotton, L, black.
Short sleeves in summer, long sleeves in winter.
The people are nice, welcoming, smiling, easygoing.
The quality of the fabric is great, the size or the cut doesn't change year to year, the quality/price ratio is excellent.
And yes, there is the Dov story. Stories. Coming from Los Angeles, down there. Weird sex stories (Los Angeles!), anti-union (in the US of A? Big surprise!)
The alternative is: I have not the slightest idea who makes the T-shirts of other brands. And I have had several problems with their products.
At least with AA I have a good product, and at least some parts of the story are not bad. Some are even funny.
So I'd buy a couple of MetaFilter AA Ts. Black, please.
posted by bru at 9:04 PM on June 5

How the heck do you have men's XS shirts but not women's XS?

Because Mathowie is well aware that a majority of Mefites is 13 year old boys.
posted by clearly at 9:35 PM on June 5

No wonder Matt doesn't offer t-shirts more often. We're a wicked pain, ain't we.
posted by rtha at 10:21 PM on June 5 [10 favorites]

The Dov thing is especially grating -- for me, at least -- because the company actively markets itself as such an upstanding ethical innovator in the textiles industry. Look at our 100% American-made tees! Aren't we awesome with the no-slave-labor-having? Won't you look awesome riding your fixie knowing your perfect black tee wasn't made by Guatemalan children who are paid $0.10 a day! We are awesome! And so are you! Yay us!

A message that is completely undercut when you learn that their CEO from whom company direction flows is a misogynist scumbag who thinks he's mister Ladies Love Cool Jackinoff. It's completely hypocritical.

Hooray for them not exploring Guatemalan children (seriously). Fuck them for not treating women with the same respect.

I would totally pay an extra $5 or $10 not to have our money going to that asshole. Hell, if we don't use AA, I'll even make up the difference for one MeFite who can't spare the extra money, because I do get that argument, too.
posted by shiu mai baby at 11:09 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]

Huh. I didn't expect to see so many folks defending/justifying that kind of treatment of other folks, particularly involving those who have little experience in the world versus a canny, apparently sexually predatory employer. I continue to learn much about other possible viewpoints here.

While it's true that buying products from sleazeballs endorses and enables their continued sleaze and tacitly approves of the sleazeball's treatment of the exploited party, I didn't mean to cause a ruckus.
posted by batmonkey at 11:11 PM on June 5

er... "while it's true I strongly feel that [...]" is what I'd intended. oops.
posted by batmonkey at 11:14 PM on June 5

I much prefer the women's "baby doll" cuts to the straight t-shirts, as they're a bit more stretchy and accommodating. If input is still being accepted, then I toss a vote in for baby rib style.
posted by gingerbeer at 11:33 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Goddammit. Look, I have a 54 inch bust, so - by the looks of the size chart - even the largest mens shirt is going to make me look like a giant blue wurst.

Is there any chance of having an alternative item available for people who don't want/can't have shirts? Cap? Bucket hat? How about embroidered patches?

PLEASE DON'T SHUT ME OUT!!!!

*sobs*
posted by ninazer0 at 12:00 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]

Actually, I'd be happy to pay a fee for the artwork so I could have my size made up locally. Certainly would save on shipping and all that.
posted by ninazer0 at 12:03 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]

"Is this something I would need to read Mefi to understand?"
posted by Pronoiac at 12:07 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]

Is there any chance of having an alternative item available for people who don't want/can't have shirts? Cap? Bucket hat? How about embroidered patches?

Two words: Mefi Snuggy.
posted by furious at 12:34 AM on June 6 [4 favorites]

how about a thong, with a tasteful & understated [+] logo?
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:02 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]

Two words: Mefi Snuggylankie.

ftfy.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:20 AM on June 6

I'm going with the lesser of two evils on this one. Being an asshole is generally an ignored offense, while fucking people over and maintaining a status quo for large populations by keeping them in poverty is a crime against humanity. So yeah, I'm not going to hold it against anyone for choosing AA based on that scale...and for making a superior product...and for being the cheapest. I dislike the rationalization of well this little bit won't hurt, but I think it's apt and appropriate to realize that if mathowie does not put this order in then AA is gonna hurt because of it.
Maybe this guy will get his due, or maybe people will laud him and he'll end up as the next Hugh Hefner. I certainly realize not wanting to support this guy at all but there are plenty of bigger assholes out there who don't get as much press as this guy does.
posted by P.o.B. at 2:05 AM on June 6

Screwed my logic on that one, there should be double negative in there.
posted by P.o.B. at 2:08 AM on June 6

Alternative Apparel, maybe?

I've got one Alt A shirt and it is super comfy and flattering, but they are most likely one of the $20 vs. $15 options Matt mentioned.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:17 AM on June 6

Charney is horrible, but I do agree about the fit being good -- another company would be ideal, but can we please at least determine what the cut is like? I'd hate to have another T-shirt that looks awful on me.

For all the people that complain about AA shirts being to small... remember, some of us are small people, OK?!

They're not sweat-shop free, but if I had my pick every T-shirt ever would be printed on Uni Qlo XS.
posted by defenestration at 3:58 AM on June 6

(or sometimes Uni Qlo S -- unfortunately, I found that they aren't completely consistent with sizes.)
posted by defenestration at 4:00 AM on June 6

mathowie: If there was something better than AA, I'd go with it, because yeah their founder squicks me out as well, but if we go with AA we get some quality stuff that fits well and is really cheap to boot. It's really the difference between being able to sell a shirt for $15 shipped vs. $20 shipped if it wasn't AA.

Sorry but that rationalization is itself rather squicky. That $5 savings just isn't worth it.

geoff.: I realize the guy is a creep but it's not like anyone is asking you guys to take him in as a roommate.

He's more than a creep. If it was food or shelter and I didn't have any other options, then I would give my money to Dov Charney out of necessity. It's a t-shirt, though. I love MeFi, but I don't need a t-shirt, and there are other options.
posted by headnsouth at 4:26 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]

I realize that my second to last comment may make me look like an insensitive ass; it's also somewhat ambiguous. Simply put, I unequivocally support the idea of printing on another company's T-shirts.

I'm just saying that we should find a company that has equal or better quality of material and cut. I have absolutely no problem paying a little more for a shirt that is from a company that doesn't have a vile CEO.
posted by defenestration at 4:34 AM on June 6

I'm just saying that we should find a company that has equal or better quality of material and cut. I have absolutely no problem paying a little more for a shirt that is from a company that doesn't have a vile CEO.

Yeah, and other people have absolutely no problem paying a little more for a shirt that is definitely not produced under sweatshop conditions or in a foreign country with irregular oversight of those conditions. I see no one naming a real and viable alternative that has, Charney aside, the political standards that AA has.

We're not all gonna be happy on this one. It's just a shirt.
posted by liketitanic at 5:04 AM on June 6

If you got the shirts from No Sweat,

OH SHIT QFT
posted by liketitanic at 5:06 AM on June 6

Alternative Apparel doesn't have very transparent production--my wife researched them as an alternative to American as well. Bella only makes women's tees. No Sweat's product is ugly, in my opinion, but has good creds.
posted by liketitanic at 5:15 AM on June 6

Okay, I think I got this one figured.

There's two plates of beans in front of you.

One is reasonably priced, looks and smells absolutely delicious and you're positive you'll be sated after you eat them. But the guy selling them is pervy and is prone to making rude and outrageous remarks to and about women.

The other is priced a bit higher, and yet the beans are of an obviously lower grade. The serving is smaller, the beans look a little dehydrated, and the smell does nothing but decrease their appeal. But the guy selling these beans is well dressed, nice watch and shoes, and when he gives you the thumbs up you actually hear a "Ding!" sound because his smile is so bright. What isn't publicized, unlike the first salespersons asshole behavior, is he made poor migrant workers pick these beans for slave wages, and when you buy from him you are only compounding and reinforcing an effect that happens to many many people rather than just him.

Hurry up and decide people, I'm hungry.
posted by P.o.B. at 5:33 AM on June 6 [4 favorites]

Let's be frank: nearly no one, of any shape, size, or proportion, looks good in a t-shirt, even those who sincerely believe they do. This is the first extended instance I've ever seen of people parsing the "fit" and "cut" of different makes of a friggin' generic floppy cotton garment. It's not a strapless ballgown or a Speedo. C'mon, order up a size or two -- embrace the bagginess!

The next thing you'll tell me is you iron these things before you wear them.

Me, I'm just grateful for an excuse to replenish my tattered, faded, holey stock of tees because there are only about 6 left that I can wear out in public anymore.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:21 AM on June 6

Whatever you pick is cool with me, Matt. And yeah, I'd prefer whatever was cheaper and still good quality.

Of course I expect it to be American made with American products by a guy who has a station wagon, lives in Omaha and has 2.5 kids. And the CEO of the company supports his feminist wife wholeheartedly, never speaks harshly to his kids and has never once in his life kicked a puppy.

Other than that, whatever you choose is fine.
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:22 AM on June 6

I'm fine with AA or whatever, but the Obama shirt I bought last year, made by Union Line, is a really nice shirt. It is also one of the only girl-cut t-shirts that has enough room for, er, the girls. Scoop-neck, 100% cotton...and it comes in black!

(I wore it to the Inauguration DC Meetup, but I can't find any good pictures.)
posted by JoanArkham at 6:35 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]

Alternative Apparel doesn't have very transparent production

Yeah, others share that concern. Apparently they make their products in China. Those are from a blog associated with Skreened - a competitor, I gather - but Skreened might be worth looking into; they call themselves "ethically custom."

Three quick points before I go to work:

1. This is an interesting discussion, fuck the sneerers.
2. Honestly, the fit of the t-shirt is pretty low on my list of the relevant concerns here, so value my judgment accordingly.
3. I eagerly await jessamyn's thoughts.
posted by mediareport at 6:42 AM on June 6

This is why we can't have nice things.
posted by Bookhouse at 7:16 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]

The next thing you'll tell me is you iron these things before you wear them.

Well, shit, I can't iron them while I wear them anymore since they put that freakin' killjoy disclaimer on 'em.
posted by cortex at 7:25 AM on June 6

The CEO masturbated during an interview?
This is completely insane.
posted by bystander at 7:31 AM on June 6

The survey thanked me for submitting, but I'm NOT submissive, I'm not, I'm not, I'm NOT!

is it ok to say that?
posted by jasper411 at 7:44 AM on June 6

This is going to be one big-ass order of T-shirts. Count me in with those who say they are willing to pay more for a ethically produced t-shirt from another company if it means we can avoid giving money to that revolting Charney.
posted by orange swan at 8:39 AM on June 6

OUTRAGE!

From Wikipedia:

Charney is officially the CEO of American Apparel, but goes by the title of "Senior Partner." Charney infused progressive politics into his brand, paying his factory workers up to $18 dollars an hour and offering low cost full family health care for employees. Immigrant workers are also allowed free phone calls home during work hours.

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:46 AM on June 6

There's two plates of beans in front of you.

One is reasonably priced, looks and smells absolutely delicious and you're positive you'll be sated after you eat them. But the guy selling them is pervy and is prone to making rude and outrageous remarks to and about women.

I don't know about you, but I'm not buying any beans cooked by a compulsive masturbator.
posted by ecurtz at 8:57 AM on June 6

What brand were the last batch of shirts? How much outrage was attached to the decision to buy that brand?

From the digging I've done, there's absolutely NOTHING that comes in a stylish-fit, soft-cotton T-shirt in both men's and women's, in a color that resembles MetaTalk grey, made in America by a unioinized company with a not-skeevy CEO.

I can understand the dislike for Am Ap's CEO -- it's deserved. However, I'm afraid that we're going to paint ourselves into a corner wherein the product we demand simply doesn't exist, and then we won't have shirts at all. I think if we ratchet down the outrage from 9 to about 6 or so, we can get into something comfy that 99% of MeFites can wear with a good conscience. I mean really -- how many people posting in this thread have a 100% organic, free-trade and/or USA union-made wardrobe? I'm betting none, because of the way global economics and "free trade" has panned out over the last 20 years. (I'm looking at you too, Clinton voters.)
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:16 AM on June 6

Jesus, ActingTheGoat. Did you bother to read any of the Charney links above, or did you just drop by to show the folks who think Charney is an epic douchebag how very wrong we are?
posted by shiu mai baby at 9:16 AM on June 6

This is going to be one big-ass order of T-shirts

Not really, it's only 300 shirts. But as much as I like the product, I didn't want to give money to AA from the start, I just mentioned that we got them cheaper than other choices and other choices were few and far between.

It's looking like Alternative Apparel might be the way to go, but we're back to sweatshop shirts made in China. ugh. I'd rather not fund that kind of operation either.

There was this one company that made shirts in Brooklyn that I can't find the name of right now -- they had some AA type name and product.
posted by mathowie at 9:24 AM on June 6

He's not just "pervy" - he mixes sex and threats against his employees when they won't comply with his craziness.

For me, his pseudo-free-trade isn't a sufficient shield of justification for his scams (more), and I'd definitely pay $5 more for a non-AA shirt. Or some fee for the artwork to put on a shirt of my own choosing.

Anyway. It's Saturday. Let's watch a cartoon.
posted by batmonkey at 9:26 AM on June 6

I turned off the form after almost 900 responses, here's a screenshot of the final breakdown, the top half of the graph is the men's shirts, the bottom half are the women's shirts:


posted by mathowie at 9:27 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]

Should have been link for "pseudo-free-trade".
posted by batmonkey at 9:27 AM on June 6

So to sum up:

the shirts need to be made in unusually tiny sizes
the shirts need to be made in unusually giant sizes
the shirts need to be crewneck
the shirts need to be vneck
the shirts need to be black
the shirts need to be anything but black
the shirts need to be made in the USA
the shirts need to be made in union shops
the shirts need to be made by a firm whose owner is isn't mysogynist
the shirts need to be fitted
the shirts need to be baggy
the shirts need to be comfortable
the shirts need to be stylish
the shirts need to be 100% cotton
the shirts need to be a poly blend


Did I miss anything?
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:33 AM on June 6 [4 favorites]

Ah, I found what I tried a couple years ago: Royal Apparel. This is the shirt I was thinking of, in Asphalt or Platinum Grey. I think it's all american made stuff in Brooklyn with a non-skeevy CEO.
posted by mathowie at 9:35 AM on June 6 [7 favorites]

So digging around, Royal Apparel says they use 95% american-grown organic cotton, and they produce the shirts mostly in the US, and some in Mexico, some in Canada, all of it seems to be sweatshop free.
posted by mathowie at 9:41 AM on June 6

Did I miss anything?

the shirts need to be made in the USA Australia.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:42 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]

NO MORE HIPSTER SCUM

Nah, for real, I don't even want to add up how much money in American Apparel merchandise I own. I don't want to be one of those SO YOU'RE AGAINST WEARING FUR I GUESS YOU DON'T EAT EGGS OR MILK AND HAVE NEVER STEPPED ON AN ANT HUH HUH people, but let's just take this example.

Target has stylish clothes at a very reasonable price point, and next to Wal*Mart seems like a paragon of ethics and values, right?

Target also sources clothing from sweatshops and allows its pharmacists to refuse to supply the morning after pill.

I hereby invite everyone who has never bought anything from Target and is also boycotting American Apparel to make fun of me and the gold lamé bikini top I'm going to wear under my Mefi shirt, OK?
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:46 AM on June 6

Yipes. After all this, I await the discussion on the actual design with a mixture of morbid curiosity and quaking trepidation.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 10:10 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]

discussion on the actual design

professional white background, or nothing.

mefi blue is horrific for my complexion.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:14 AM on June 6

Jesus, shiu mai baby, did you bother to read any of the comments?


I know Dov Charney is a totally fucking scuzzy douchebag and all, but since the alternative at that price point is likely to be made by de facto slave laborers, don't you think AA is the lesser of two evils?

I mean, yes, sexism, misogyny and harassment are without doubt objectively wrong, but I am of the opinion that slavery is wrong-er.
posted by dersins

So we're reduced to either slave labor made shirts or shirts that support an utter douchebag? Great dilemma.
posted by fenriq

I like blends (though only for t-shirts!) and I don't like crew necks. I prefer sexism to slave labor. Beaches are great, but long walks make me antsy. Early twenties/f/Philly. Email in profile, folks.
posted by youarenothere

when you buy from him you are only compounding and reinforcing an effect that happens to many many people rather than just him.
posted by P.o.B.

Aren't we awesome with the no-slave-labor-having?
posted by shiu mai baby

I think that the first five five results for a search of the word, "slave" in this thread are somehow more ethical. After looking at the links and reading the comments here, I have to agree with dersins.
I am of the opinion that slavery is wrong-er.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:15 AM on June 6

And I'm saying that it's kind of shitty of you, being on a board with a not-small number of women on it to mock the very valid reasons why people don't want to give AA their business. Essentially you're implying that it's perfectly fine to overlook the fact that he treats women like sex objects and second-class citizens because he doesn't treat these other folks over here like second-class citizens.

Slavery is wrong. Using sex as a weapon and a manner of asserting your dominance over your female employees and other women is also wrong. The fact that one act is wrong-er than the other on the giant rainbow of Things That Suck doesn't mean it's perfectly peachy to ignore the other.

Matthowie seems to have found a place that doesn't have a proudly misogynist CEO in charge *and* doesn't use sweat-shop labor. This is a good thing.
posted by shiu mai baby at 11:14 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]

So, don't you guys have something like this over there?

For every beautiful garment People Tree makes, there's an equally beautiful change happening somewhere in the world.

We like to think of it in terms of our little shoots-and-roots motif. We provide you with exclusive fashion - the shoots - while at the same time we work deep down through the roots, improving the lives and environment of the artisans and farmers in developing countries who work to produce it. It's Fair Trade throughout. Simple.

In order to ensure People Tree fashion meets the Fair Trade principles set out by IFAT (International Fair Trade Association), we work closely with 50 Fair Trade groups in 15 countries. That way, we can bring benefits to people and the planet at as many steps of the production process as possible – growing cotton, weaving, dyeing, embroidery, stitching etc. – helping alleviate poverty in the world's most marginalised communities.

We also work hard to ensure that we pioneer ecologically sound methods of production and minimise environmental impact. Not only is most of our cotton certified organic and Fairtrade, all our clothes are dyed using safe and natural dyes. And we source as many products as we can locally, choosing natural and recycled products over toxic, synthetic and non-biodegradable materials.



I don't know, if we're going down the ethical road, let's go down all the way. Cotton farmers in India need your money.
posted by lucia__is__dada at 11:21 AM on June 6

Lots of people need my money, most of all me.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:30 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]

This thread is useless without cortex overthinking a plate of T-shirts.
posted by lukemeister at 11:53 AM on June 6

I like the way we can care about so many things on so many different levels simultaneously. Humans are really incredibly fascinating creatures.
posted by batmonkey at 12:05 PM on June 6

nice find, mathowie. this one for the women's t?
posted by gingerbeer at 12:09 PM on June 6

Hey, one vote here for a shirt that's not made by creepy-ass, union-busting American Apparel, even if it does cost $25. As a former frequent concertgoer, I've certainly paid more for lower quality.
posted by ignignokt at 2:01 PM on June 6

3. I eagerly await jessamyn's thoughts.

I think this is going to be impossible to solve pleasing everyone in the time we have available and that we need to be okay with compromise. I don't like AA particularly (though they do a lot of good stuff at the same time that they're doing a lot of bad stuff, life is complicated) but I also don't really think I'd be psyched with the politics of any company large enough to do what we want. That said, if Royal Apparel does what we want, yay.
posted by jessamyn at 2:08 PM on June 6

Royal Apparel

I'm sorry, but my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was a Roundhead, I can't get behind this.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:23 PM on June 6 [2 favorites]

This thread is MetaFilter at its very most MetaFilteriest.
posted by dirtdirt at 2:30 PM on June 6 [1 favorite]

Extra large, please. I'm not that fat, I just like my T-shirts a bit on the baggy side.
posted by idiomatika at 2:31 PM on June 6

Matt, I can't believe you're not getting fedoras.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:15 PM on June 6

This thread is MetaFilter at its very most MetaFilteriest.

Yeah, thoughtful investigation and discussion of complex issues is always valued here.
posted by mediareport at 3:19 PM on June 6 [2 favorites]

It's hard to tell from one photo but I'm not impressed with the look of the Royal Apparel tees. There's either this one, which is boxy, or this one which has stupidly short sleeves and a short body. I've bought shirts like these before and either of them will make me look fat and frumpy, which I'm not.

And OK every time I reload the womens teeshirt page over there I get a different bunch of shirts. What the fuck? This one is possibly reasonable, still looks a little too square in the body but it's not like she has anything to fill it out with. Most of their short sleeve tees have the very short sleeves, so unflattering.

I guarantee any company you choose will have at least one utter arsehole working for them, that's the way life goes. I'm still not going to wear clothes which make me look like shit.
posted by shelleycat at 4:01 PM on June 6 [1 favorite]

I like this one, and it's on sale.
posted by lysdexic at 4:32 PM on June 6

MetaFilter: Politics. Religion. Obesity. T-Shirts. Things we don't do well since 1999.
posted by netbros at 4:38 PM on June 6 [2 favorites]

lysdexic, the model has captured the "mefi" expression perfectly.

I will buy a shirt no matter who makes it, how many suffered making it, and how much masturbating during interviews about the shirt there was.*

* This has to be a fucking joke, right? What does it say about you as a reporter that you'd be willing to put up with that bullshit if it's true?
posted by maxwelton at 4:43 PM on June 6

Why not also sell an iron-on label? I am a particularly small woman with a large head, so that t-shirts (if intended for men) are much too large, especially in the arms, and/or the neck opening is too small. I would much rather source my own t-shirt and iron on a label.
posted by bad grammar at 5:05 PM on June 6 [3 favorites]

Matt, I can't believe you're not getting fedoras.

yes, this! where's my mefedora?
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:24 PM on June 6 [1 favorite]

yes, this! where's my mefedora?

FTFY.
posted by shiu mai baby at 8:22 PM on June 6

Metafilter: It's just a shirt.
posted by Kimothy at 9:58 PM on June 6

Yeah, thoughtful investigation and discussion of complex issues is always valued here.

It's that t-shirt sales are a complex issue.
posted by smackfu at 12:18 PM on June 7

I like this one, and it's on sale.

a) What kind of pose is that? Is he a circus contortionist?

b) Why does the shirt go down to his mid-thigh?
posted by smackfu at 12:22 PM on June 7

I designed a "MF" baseball logo for hats and for the back or sleeve of the Meta shirt.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:32 PM on June 7

An iron-on logo is a great idea.
posted by orange swan at 6:26 PM on June 7

a) What kind of pose is that? Is he a circus contortionist?

Beats me

b) Why does the shirt go down to his mid-thigh?

It's from the big & tall section, and I'm guessing as a model, he's neither.

I figure - that's a style that makes everyone look bad equally or it stimualtes the custom tailor economy, and it's got the professional color scheme as a choice!

This is only half serious, but it feels like some win.
posted by lysdexic at 5:04 AM on June 8

I had a simple request: mother fucking extra small t-shirts. You guys are all on notice.

I think i'm making my own contraband mefi t-shirt. And it is going to be fucking brilliant.

Also, American Apparel T-Shirts really are pretty nice, even if they are made by non-unionized Mexican ladies in a company run by a skeevy dude.
posted by chunking express at 6:25 AM on June 8

MetaFilter: Fruit of the Loom
posted by not_on_display at 7:52 AM on June 8

Whoever we end up going with, a size chart is a very good idea. I too find that AA runs pretty small, especially for the, um, girls. I have an XL that I bought when I was bigger that really, honestly, was too small for me; at 60 pounds lighter, it fits just a hair loose. I'd probably get an L or XL, and I wear 8-12 in women's clothes, and a M in most tops.

Also, I think I've seen that AA grey -- I bought one for mr. epersonae in March, and it's a very MetaTalk grey. Although, again: AA sizing...I probably should've gotten an XL instead of an L.
posted by epersonae at 8:47 AM on June 8

Did I miss anything?

I'm late to the thread, but I'd like to add "the shirts need to be anything but white." I've come to despise white t-shirts because stains show up about a thousand times more blatantly on them than on anything else.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:03 AM on June 8

I've come to despise white t-shirts because stains show up about a thousand times more blatantly on them than on anything else.

Stop staining yourself, then.
posted by dersins at 9:52 AM on June 8

I am planning to only eat foods that are MetaTalk grey to avoid staining my shirt. Unless Dov Charney jacks off on me, in which case, maybe they should be white.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:00 AM on June 8

Stop staining yourself, then.

I wear a t-shirt precisely so I don't stain myself.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:01 AM on June 8

I am never going with any of you to a video store.
posted by gomichild at 10:48 PM on June 8 [4 favorites]

bittorrent killed the video store.
posted by lysdexic at 3:25 AM on June 10

AA Venn Diagram.

Not that anyone will still be reading this thread.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:29 PM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Not that anyone will still be reading this thread.

Compulsively.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:01 PM on June 11

When do we get shirts!!!!??????
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:48 AM on June 27

We ended up choosing Royal Apparel shirts, which added a few weeks of delay to the project. We were originally hoping to get them well in time before the tenth to ship them to everyone, but it looks like printing won't be complete until next week, then they have to ship to me, then we'd start taking orders so it's likely they'll come out soon after the tenth parties.

I'll make a full post when the shirts are in my hands and the store software is ready to take orders.
posted by mathowie at 6:37 PM on June 27

poop
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:09 PM on June 27

In all fairness, that will at least stop everyone and his/her dog pitching up at the Meetups wearing the same T-shirt. We wouldn't want anyone to think we are some kind of cult now, would we?


All hail the Supreme Mathowie and his disciples The Moderators, may they save us from the dark holes of the interwebs...
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 1:55 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]

Hypothetically, if one were to prepay one's order (thus ensuring you wouldn't be out the cash), would you be willing to release the artwork on a person by person basis so that we could make our own tshirts/hats/gstrings/dog collars/handkerchiefs/GIGANTICFREAKFLAGS for the parties? 1 item per person obvy.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:27 AM on June 28

Well, the artwork is basically just the logo on the back and some text on the front. You're welcome to make your own shirt using the vector version of the MeFi logo as long as you don't try selling them or something.
posted by mathowie at 10:03 PM on June 28 [1 favorite]

Hey, that logo has uneven kerning spacing between letters

...

Hi, I'm an oversensitive font nerd.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:36 AM on June 29