What's wrong? May 25, 2010 9:17 AM Subscribe
I don't understand what's wrong with my post linked to here: Unethical AC. Members have been assaulting that post with derogatory comments. As an old woman, I feel I require explanation.
Here's the original thread, with an explanation given.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2010
I'm not understanding at all what you're referring to. This is a post on another website that hasn't had a comment added to it since January of this year. Does this have to do with your AskMe post which contained a link that we removed?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2010
Patience Jessamyn, heed the words of the yeti.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
It looks like your thread was deleted, because instead of finding a link that speaks for itself, the link only made sense in the context of a lot of additional explanation, as if it was posted on your own blog.
I don't think the responses were particularly mean, just dismissive. I hope that (and some of the bad jokes that will probably follow in this thread) won't dissuade you from participating in the future and stuff.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:22 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think the responses were particularly mean, just dismissive. I hope that (and some of the bad jokes that will probably follow in this thread) won't dissuade you from participating in the future and stuff.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:22 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
susanharper, this is the third time you've linked to that blog on MetaFilter today which is a fairly sketchy thing to do here. The blog looks like SEO-bait which is making your particpation here look really not at all cool.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:23 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:23 AM on May 25, 2010
I've replaced the link to the blog that was in your MeTa post with an actual link to your deleted MeFi thread. If you are trying to sincerely interact on MeFi in good faith, please do not link to it again.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2010
It doesn't seem like a very good article and there's no clear context for why it's worth posting, and the blog its on is really kind of skeezy and aggressive about SEO and affiliate stuff.
I appreciate that you kept your own editorializing out of the do-over post today compared with your first attempt, but it's still just not a great post.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2010
I appreciate that you kept your own editorializing out of the do-over post today compared with your first attempt, but it's still just not a great post.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2010
Hmmm, the blog in question seems to have been removed from blogger.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:28 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:28 AM on May 25, 2010
It looks like a two year old article about a sleezy article factory. There are lots of sleezy online outlets that promise to make you thousands but end up paying you pennies, so I'd say this particular example isn't super interesting.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:29 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:29 AM on May 25, 2010
We munged the address given the sketchiness of the repeat linking. Doesn't seem like a place that needs traffic from mefi. Replace "example" with "cute" if you want to unmunge the address and take a peek.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2010
Yeah, the blog is gone now anyway.
Why does it matter that you're an old woman?
posted by amro at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
Why does it matter that you're an old woman?
posted by amro at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
On lack of preview: nevermind, not actually gone. But still wondering about the "old woman" bit.
posted by amro at 9:31 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by amro at 9:31 AM on May 25, 2010
All right, thanks for all your help. I have had enough. I want to start a project about freelance writing. May I have the opportunity to do anything like that? I was frustrated to see many writers getting too low wages for their hard work, and this post had summed it up pretty well; that's the reason why I tried to let the world know of it. Why else would I do that? It's sad MeFi doesn't recognize content creators like us. You are all about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that? It's sad.
posted by susanharper at 9:35 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by susanharper at 9:35 AM on May 25, 2010
I have never before seen a deletion reason co-written by jessamyn and cortex! It's like Michael and Paul doing "Ebony and Ivory!" It's like a Lady Gaga post co-starring Prince.
For this I thank you, old woman.
posted by Mister_A at 9:37 AM on May 25, 2010 [16 favorites]
For this I thank you, old woman.
posted by Mister_A at 9:37 AM on May 25, 2010 [16 favorites]
It's sad MeFi doesn't recognize content creators like us
What? See "projects" at the top of the page.
posted by rtha at 9:37 AM on May 25, 2010 [12 favorites]
What? See "projects" at the top of the page.
posted by rtha at 9:37 AM on May 25, 2010 [12 favorites]
Um.
posted by desuetude at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by desuetude at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Susan, I'm not sure what you're expecting here; there are lots and lots of content creators on mefi, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether a specific post you choose to make to the front page of Metafilter is good or not. If you're asking for carte blanche to just post whatever you feel like, no, you're not going to get it, but beyond that there's no real conflict here with how mefi works—sometimes a post is not great and it gets deleted, pretty much end of story.
If you have some specific concern about what you want to do with the site or what you were expecting to happen or not happen, you're welcome to talk about that here or drop me an email or mefimail, but as it is I'm clear on you being frustrated but not clear on what exactly you are expecting to get out of your time on Metafilter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you have some specific concern about what you want to do with the site or what you were expecting to happen or not happen, you're welcome to talk about that here or drop me an email or mefimail, but as it is I'm clear on you being frustrated but not clear on what exactly you are expecting to get out of your time on Metafilter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh. The link to Projects.
It's where you link to things you made yourself. Wander around over there and get a feel for it.
Otherwise, yeah, the blue is not for ranting about unfair things, or editorializing an issue to the point where it really should be on your own blog.
posted by rtha at 9:39 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's where you link to things you made yourself. Wander around over there and get a feel for it.
Otherwise, yeah, the blue is not for ranting about unfair things, or editorializing an issue to the point where it really should be on your own blog.
posted by rtha at 9:39 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
MeFi most certainly recognizes content creators. We range from writers to musicians to artists to playwrights and to every other corner of the creative universe. Some of us are old women but most of us don't see why that matters when the subject is creativity.
However, a post with no context and no way to understand the point you're trying to make is not the way to attract MeFi writers.
posted by catlet at 9:40 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
However, a post with no context and no way to understand the point you're trying to make is not the way to attract MeFi writers.
posted by catlet at 9:40 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I despise content creators, always writing and shit. Just who do they think they are anyhow?
posted by Think_Long at 9:41 AM on May 25, 2010 [15 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 9:41 AM on May 25, 2010 [15 favorites]
You are all about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that?
Some people are into banjos, but they're the freaks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:42 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
Some people are into banjos, but they're the freaks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:42 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
Fucking banjos—how do they work?
posted by Mister_A at 9:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [24 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 9:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [24 favorites]
The blog you linked read like a press release written without much knowledge of English norms. This smells self linky to me to be honest, but I am sure the mods did their background checks. If you need any help with anything MeMail me and we will see what we can figure out.
posted by wheelieman at 9:45 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by wheelieman at 9:45 AM on May 25, 2010
Paddle faster.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:45 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:45 AM on May 25, 2010
No, it's graphic novels, Banksy, or hill people folk music.
posted by fixedgear at 9:46 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 9:46 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Have you ever heard Banksy folk music?
Neither have I, that reclusive SOB
posted by Think_Long at 9:48 AM on May 25, 2010
Neither have I, that reclusive SOB
posted by Think_Long at 9:48 AM on May 25, 2010
Hey man, I believe the preferred term is Hill People-American.
posted by Mister_A at 9:48 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 9:48 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
I like the comma, perhaps more than most, as I think it allows a clean separation of phrases in written English, but, damn, was that thing, like, full of commas, or what?
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:49 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:49 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
Pony request: The user age and sex fields need to detect when a user is an old woman and then change the [N favorites] indicator to say [N explanations].
posted by DU at 9:53 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by DU at 9:53 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
Susan: What usually plays badly here are posts by people who are too close to their subject matter.
It's appreciably difficult to determine sometimes when you're too close to what you're writing about. For example, I make as many posts about bikes as I do because I love to ride bikes and care abou cycling, but I don't post about bicycling news that gets me wound up or is relevant to a specific activity or product I'm involved in (or conflicts with whatever I'm involved in). This is not only because it would make for a bad post, but because mefites (any sufficiently large, diverse group of people, really) tend not to behave well in threads that involve both GRAAAR and biking. Especially bike racing, or bike commuting.
Posting on emotional topics requires somebody who can manage, or at least feign, editorial distance both in the tone in which they write the post and in the resources they link to regarding the topic.
Associated Content's been the subjects of posts here before, and frankly their business model is not one I think highly of, but I also think that a post about how badly they treat their contributors requires some stronger analysis than a single blogger ranting against that system. There's probably room for a good post about them -- for that matter, about how online content generators are being treated industry-wide -- but yours was not that post.
posted by ardgedee at 9:54 AM on May 25, 2010 [7 favorites]
It's appreciably difficult to determine sometimes when you're too close to what you're writing about. For example, I make as many posts about bikes as I do because I love to ride bikes and care abou cycling, but I don't post about bicycling news that gets me wound up or is relevant to a specific activity or product I'm involved in (or conflicts with whatever I'm involved in). This is not only because it would make for a bad post, but because mefites (any sufficiently large, diverse group of people, really) tend not to behave well in threads that involve both GRAAAR and biking. Especially bike racing, or bike commuting.
Posting on emotional topics requires somebody who can manage, or at least feign, editorial distance both in the tone in which they write the post and in the resources they link to regarding the topic.
Associated Content's been the subjects of posts here before, and frankly their business model is not one I think highly of, but I also think that a post about how badly they treat their contributors requires some stronger analysis than a single blogger ranting against that system. There's probably room for a good post about them -- for that matter, about how online content generators are being treated industry-wide -- but yours was not that post.
posted by ardgedee at 9:54 AM on May 25, 2010 [7 favorites]
It's sad MeFi doesn't recognize content creators like us. You are all about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that? It's sad.
If you don't like what we're all about, why are you here? Also, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that are, last time I checked, content. We have many fine examples of the creators of such content living openly here amongst us, often providing links to other amazing content (links to cool things being actually what MetaFilter is for). Politics, though - you got us on that one. Politics is definitely sad. These days, anyway. Good luck to you. May you get the wages that your work deserves.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 AM on May 25, 2010 [8 favorites]
If you don't like what we're all about, why are you here? Also, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that are, last time I checked, content. We have many fine examples of the creators of such content living openly here amongst us, often providing links to other amazing content (links to cool things being actually what MetaFilter is for). Politics, though - you got us on that one. Politics is definitely sad. These days, anyway. Good luck to you. May you get the wages that your work deserves.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 AM on May 25, 2010 [8 favorites]
You are all about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that? It's sad.
I AM NOW SO GUILT-RIDDEN THAT OF COURSE YOU MAY PUBLISH YOUR POST. BOO HOO HOO. I AM SUCH A BAD PRESON.
posted by GuyZero at 10:01 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
I AM NOW SO GUILT-RIDDEN THAT OF COURSE YOU MAY PUBLISH YOUR POST. BOO HOO HOO. I AM SUCH A BAD PRESON.
posted by GuyZero at 10:01 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is it sad to like politics, weird stories and comics? Now I'm sad, which is sad because I didn't know I was sad until now.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:04 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:04 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Fla-ame out, swee-eet chariot...
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:04 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:04 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
susanharper, hello. I'm an old man, and I'm naked.
I didn't create this content, but I have creted the microcontent here in this comment that frames it, gives it context, and makes it super lulzy and appropriate for this forum.
Once you get the hang of it the $$$ will come rolling in. Even before anyone has read this comment I have made 0.78USD. The site owner of MetaFilter will end up taking about 87% of that in commission and handling fees, but you take what you can get, hey?
posted by Meatbomb at 10:05 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
I didn't create this content, but I have creted the microcontent here in this comment that frames it, gives it context, and makes it super lulzy and appropriate for this forum.
Once you get the hang of it the $$$ will come rolling in. Even before anyone has read this comment I have made 0.78USD. The site owner of MetaFilter will end up taking about 87% of that in commission and handling fees, but you take what you can get, hey?
posted by Meatbomb at 10:05 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
Next in the series of BeerFilter's New Cultural Touchstones: a 4 color window sticker of Barack Obama peeing into a can of Pabst Blue Ribbon with the colors all washed out like in that HOPE poster. The can is held aloft by Lady Gaga who stands before a Banksy piece which is painted on the Great Firewall of China. The legend at the bottom of the sticker reads, "POPE".
posted by BeerFilter at 10:06 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by BeerFilter at 10:06 AM on May 25, 2010 [4 favorites]
Some folks are delicious content providers. Is it time for the recipes yet? cause it being the time of year for rhubarb-ginger syrup, we made it and invented a new cocktail for it:
2 oz tequila
3/4 oz rhubarb-ginger syrup
3/4 oz cointreau
and some lime juice
Everyone needs one.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:07 AM on May 25, 2010 [47 favorites]
2 oz tequila
3/4 oz rhubarb-ginger syrup
3/4 oz cointreau
and some lime juice
Everyone needs one.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:07 AM on May 25, 2010 [47 favorites]
susanharper, you've got to bear in mind that it's the content, not the topic, of the post that determines the reaction. It's not necessarily that people think that the subject matter is a bad thing, more that the site you linked to was poor.
There is an incredibly diverse range of interests here, and I'm sure a better link would have elicited a better reaction from people.
posted by djgh at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010
There is an incredibly diverse range of interests here, and I'm sure a better link would have elicited a better reaction from people.
posted by djgh at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010
Meatbomb is not old, but he is naked. Ask him to show you his tattoo of the Treaty of Westphalia.
posted by Mister_A at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
As someone whose Posts are mostly about comics, I take issue with being characterized as 'sad'. Old woman or no, you sound like a petulant whiny jerkface.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:09 AM on May 25, 2010 [9 favorites]
Crush, you need a name for that drink. Ginger Sling or something like that. Or "The Melvin," maybe.
posted by Mister_A at 10:10 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 10:10 AM on May 25, 2010
Content creators feel differently about this too. I am a deadhead who collects tapes (now digital copies) of shows. The band does not profit. In fact they support the free trade of tapes. As Jerry once said, "Once we play it, it is yours. Our gift to you." As long as you don't profit from trading tapes, the band is ok. They found other ways to make a living such as selling actual tickets to shows.
Some content creators will only work for money. They value their intellectual property and won't give it away.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:11 AM on May 25, 2010
Some content creators will only work for money. They value their intellectual property and won't give it away.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:11 AM on May 25, 2010
Mr. A--we're calling it "Rhubarbara" for the time being.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:12 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by crush-onastick at 10:12 AM on May 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
Some content creators will only work for money. They value their intellectual property and won't give it away.
Will work for favorites.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:14 AM on May 25, 2010 [14 favorites]
Will work for favorites.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:14 AM on May 25, 2010 [14 favorites]
Rhubarbara is a terrifying word. I'm not sure when to stop typing... rhubarbarabarabarub... Argh! it just keeps going!
posted by quin at 10:17 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by quin at 10:17 AM on May 25, 2010 [5 favorites]
try saying it after your third rhubarbara. it's a hoot.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:24 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by crush-onastick at 10:24 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
As an old man, sometimes I feel the need to post certain comments because they seem blatantly obvious to me and yet nobody else is saying them. So, without further ado...
MetaFilter: All about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that? It's sad.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 10:26 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: All about politics, weird stories, comics, and stuff like that? It's sad.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 10:26 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would be interested in a post to information about online content agencies that contrasted AC with other agencies, or examined a movement involving multiple active people and their specific suggestions for a viable alternative and why it would work (i.e., why buyers wouldn't just go for whatever was cheapest, and who those buyers would be). Also interesting might be an agency or article pointing out something positive (other than complaining or boycotting) that I, as a "consumer" of web sites, could do to encourage ethical practices.
Content creation and creators are very interesting to a lot of MeFites, I'd think, but they do like the contextualization.
posted by amtho at 10:34 AM on May 25, 2010
Content creation and creators are very interesting to a lot of MeFites, I'd think, but they do like the contextualization.
posted by amtho at 10:34 AM on May 25, 2010
Beware the rhubarbarians and their sticky pies.
posted by amtho at 10:35 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 10:35 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think I signed up with Associated Content once thinking maybe I might make an extra buck or two to blather about something I was able to easily blather about in my free time. I never bothered because I was a) lazy and b) weirded out by how many articles/diatribes were written by seemingly angry women demanding that Brad Pitt to return to Jennifer Aniston or calling Angelina Jolie a homewrecker.
I think that was Associated Content. It could have been something else. It was one of these platforms where people summarize what they read about in People or US Weekly or CNN or saw on E!.
posted by anniecat at 10:36 AM on May 25, 2010
I think that was Associated Content. It could have been something else. It was one of these platforms where people summarize what they read about in People or US Weekly or CNN or saw on E!.
posted by anniecat at 10:36 AM on May 25, 2010
I'm just going to call her "Dennis," to be on the safe side.
posted by barrett caulk at 10:36 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by barrett caulk at 10:36 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
More like Dissociated Malcontent, amirite?
I got nothin'
posted by Sys Rq at 10:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I got nothin'
posted by Sys Rq at 10:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I like Rue Babar, because I think this is a drink an imperialist elephant would enjoy.
Mmmm Ginger rhubarb syrup.
posted by pointystick at 10:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
Mmmm Ginger rhubarb syrup.
posted by pointystick at 10:44 AM on May 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
Rhubarbarella
posted by Sys Rq at 10:47 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:47 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
It just wasn't something we were content to be associated with, y'see.
posted by Abiezer at 10:49 AM on May 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 10:49 AM on May 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
Dammit, Mister_A.
posted by barrett caulk at 10:50 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by barrett caulk at 10:50 AM on May 25, 2010
I'm a young man, and I require explanations all the time.
What's going on?
posted by Elmore at 10:57 AM on May 25, 2010
What's going on?
posted by Elmore at 10:57 AM on May 25, 2010
I appreciate your appreciation of things, barrett caulk.
posted by Mister_A at 10:59 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 10:59 AM on May 25, 2010
Hey man, I believe the preferred term is Hill People-American.
posted by Mister_A
I can't believe you are being so U.S. centric. Hill Peoples of the world must unite for their rights. Some day we will rise up and then lower down and become valley people.
posted by Babblesort at 11:00 AM on May 25, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by Mister_A
I can't believe you are being so U.S. centric. Hill Peoples of the world must unite for their rights. Some day we will rise up and then lower down and become valley people.
posted by Babblesort at 11:00 AM on May 25, 2010 [7 favorites]
I'm not an old man, but my wife did discover a grey hair on my head this past Friday evening. She freaked the fuck out.
Myself, I wasn't too surprised. My mother has been grey as long as I can remember, and she was only 29 when I was born.
posted by owtytrof at 11:03 AM on May 25, 2010
Myself, I wasn't too surprised. My mother has been grey as long as I can remember, and she was only 29 when I was born.
posted by owtytrof at 11:03 AM on May 25, 2010
owtytrof: if your wife was only 29 when you were born, why is she freaked out that you're going grey?
posted by crush-onastick at 11:04 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by crush-onastick at 11:04 AM on May 25, 2010
crush-onastick: I think you missed an important keyword in my second paragraph.
posted by owtytrof at 11:06 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by owtytrof at 11:06 AM on May 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
My mother has been grey as long as I can remember, and she was only 29 when I was born.
My! She must have had you when you were very young.
Oh, and 60 is NOT old, ya punk.
posted by Floydd at 11:25 AM on May 25, 2010
My! She must have had you when you were very young.
Oh, and 60 is NOT old, ya punk.
posted by Floydd at 11:25 AM on May 25, 2010
I blame Dennis and the rhubarbarbarians.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:26 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by crush-onastick at 11:26 AM on May 25, 2010
If 60 is the new 40, I'm going to be getting 50% drunker than usual!
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:34 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:34 AM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Okay, looks like we're not hearing from susanharper again in here, so I'm gonna put this to bed. Susan, if you need more clarification about something, write to us mods at the contact form; you can find a link in the bottom right of every page.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:34 AM on May 25, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:34 AM on May 25, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by yeti at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2010