The very fact that this (Alia says something unpopular, someone makes MetaTalk post) happens again and again suggest that, yeah, MeFi doesn't handle certain kinds of dissent particularly well.As I said in the thread, I think it's a sign that MeFi handles it pretty well -- at least, as well as can be expected without there being more people who actually agree with Alia.
The question is whether an opinion you feel is so stupid could ever be defended to your satisfaction.This is a pretty important point, and it's one that is important to remember. It's something that applies to almost any discussion where people believe there is a moral or ethical principle in play, rather than simply opinions about current events.
To call her a troll and say she shouldn't be welcome on Metafilter is the worst sort of cliquish in-group dynamic.Just to be clear, that's what the vast majority of participants in this thread agree on.
About half (49%) of American college students donโt drink alcohol on a regular basis, 31% consume five or fewer drinks per week, and only 12% (a little over one in ten) consume ten or more drinks per week.If a little over one in ten college students drink ten or more drinks in a week, how many drink twenty or more drinks in one day ? One in a hundred ? It would be interesting to know.
Alcoholic Beverage Consumption in the U.S.: Patterns and Trends
Comparing dios to Alia really isn't fair; while his arguments were generally specious and poorly-reasoned, dios actually engaged and tried to support his points. Alia just throws out a talking point and then anything else she says is either indignant suggestions that as a Carolinian she has some kind of special insight into the world or more talking points.Well, look, I disagree. Dios tried to defend his positions, but mainly he did it through misdirection. Frequenly, he would try to derail the thread and make it about some minor, inconsiquential highly technical point that he thought he could win on. He wasn't just a troll, he was a really good troll. He made discussion of the central issue impossible.
CILANTRO RULES!I got some cilantro a couple weeks ago. A few leaves really spiced up sandwiches, but it went bad pretty quickly. But it was only 88¢ for a bundle, so who cares?
"If the builders of that center don't understand why this is upsetting to New York in general and 911 victim's families in particular they deserve the Insensitive Clods of the Year award. Period.Many have questions and would like to understand why you believe what you believe. Why you said what you said. Now's your chance. Can you give us a 'rational' reponse to those who oppose your position and statement? If not, why not?
Talk about tone deaf. If they had any compassion or brains they'd build elsewhere. Because if their goal is mutual respect and peace this is a hell of a way to go about it."
Most taxi drivers in New York City are Muslim. I've had literally thousands of interactions with Muslims this way (and on that very biased sample, would judge them to be a civilized, polite, well-educated and thoughtful group).Or fourcheesemac's?
I asked the first Muslim taxi driver I had after 9/11, "I'm sorry, it must have been rough, how have things been for you?" He said, "I didn't drive for a few weeks because I was frightened but then when I started driving, every passenger I had said the same thing, "We know it's nothing to do with you, and it's hurting you more than it's hurting us, we're really sorry and we're all in this together."" (paraphrased, this was a while ago)
He teared up and so did I.
Some people's "them" are our neighbors. My Muslim neighbors -- New Yorkers with whom I interact in all kinds of contexts -- are, from all the evidence, a community of hardworking, family-oriented, yummy food-making (ditto on the Halal cart), devout immigrant Americans. The Yemeni kids who man the deli outside my front door and always trust you to come back with the money for your cigarettes, the line of taxis that blocks the gas station up the street at sundown, while all the drivers go into the station's tiny little prayer room (many NYC gas stations have them) to face Mecca and kneel on their prayer rugs, the Afghan refugee who makes sandwiches in the cart on the corner, implacable inside a metal box even when it's 100 (or 15) degrees outside, the Egyptian American man who runs the specialty bookstore and can recommend recent works of Arabic fiction in translation, the Palestinian American musician, the brilliant engineering student, the guy checking baggage at JFK.Or nikitabot's?
New York is like a small town. We don't gang up on our neighbors when they want to build a church near the town square.
I have kind of an old fashioned Persian first name and a last name that looks Italian so people don't generally think I'm one of those people. As a result, I've heard some pretty offensive things before they know better. I've certainly noticed that slight pause some of them make after they find out my first name is Persian. I also remember when my father was stabbed in the arm by a co-worker during the Iranian Hostage Crisis. Maybe people like her wouldn't wield the knife but they might be the ones making excuses for the attacker.
Thank you for proving my point that nothing and I do mean nothing I can do will stop the criticism.Have you been reading this thread, or just CTRL-Fing your name? What people seem to want, and this may be projection of my own thought process here, is for you to continue in conversations rather than coming in, stating something you probably know will get people riled up, then refusing to elaborate any further. If you're gonna say something, please be able to back it up. ESPECIALLY if you're going to do things like speak for other people. You're clearly not dumb, so when you come in here saying that you won't defend your positions because you're incapable, that comes off as terribly disingenuous; when you assume this (or what comes off as a) hurt pose on account of people wanting you to stick to the same rhetorical standards they'd hope for from anyone else here, it becomes risible.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:04 PM on August 2 [+] [!]
1) Peoples' reactions on the blue were nowhere near the level of vitriol I'd expected from the LEAVE ALIA ALONE people in this thread,posted by jtron at 1:14 PM on August 2, 2010
and
2) FOURCHEESEMAC/CATCHINGSIGNALS 2016!
I still say this is tonedeaf. For many victim's families this really is, as one letter I saw stated, like having the family of the person who murdered your loved one move next door. Yes, they have the legal right to move there but you sure don't feel good about it.posted by nomadicink at 6:18 PM on August 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
I am not an idiot, I am sure the people who want to build this thing have good intentions. But I think their choice of site is defeating their purpose.
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 7:38 AM on August 1, 2010