MetaTalk October 1, 2010 8:18 PM   Subscribe

if anyone lost a comment they're particularly proud of the deleting mod pretty much invited you to re-post it to the open thread here. Apparently not. As one who simply doesn't have the time to monitor every thread that comes by, but who would still like to comment, may I ask what the problem is in keeping the post open? Closing any MeTa thread seems antithetical to the very concept of MetaTalk, and Cortex's reason is insubstantial.
posted by Neiltupper to Etiquette/Policy at 8:18 PM (165 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Closing any MeTa thread seems antithetical to the very concept of MetaTalk (Neiltupper)

As defined by whom?
posted by ocherdraco at 8:22 PM on October 1, 2010


What jfuller was referring to with "the open thread here" was the previous Tea Partier post on the blue that I linked to in the deletion reason of the later post. We're not clear on why jfuller started that particular Metatalk post itself since it didn't seem to be addressing anything that needed addressing, and after giving fair warning that without an update from him on what it was far we would be closing it, we did just that.

So, this is kind of mk II of that: why do we need this post to talk about the closing of that last post that we didn't really need? Do you feel there's a systemic problem here that needs addressing, or was it just that one-off situation?
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:23 PM on October 1, 2010


The big deal is we don't understand what jfuller was talking about. We asked. We gave him two hours to explain what he was talking about and he didn't come back.

Friday night is not a great time to just open a MeTa thread about ... something and not stick around to explain what that something is. The tags he added were "youhaven'taddedanytags" [or something similar] which is the error message you get if you don't tag your post. We really have no idea what he wanted or why he opened the thread. MeTa threads require some level of our attention and we take that seriously. Using a MeTa thread just to re-open a closed MeFi thread isn't really okay. Keeping a thread open so that people can sort of guess what the OP of it wanted didn't seem like a great idea.

We close threads sometimes, usually because they're becoming train wrecks but sometimes because we don't understand why they're there in the first place.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:24 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wow. Everyone is hopped up on goofballs tonight, aren't they?
posted by crunchland at 8:26 PM on October 1, 2010 [3 favorites]


A MetaTalk thread has spawned a MetaTalk thread. Someone should make a MetaTalk thread about that.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:30 PM on October 1, 2010 [5 favorites]


Hey Jessamyn! I liked that follow-a-library-on-twitter-day video you posted!

Hi cortex, I didn't see a video from you on the internet today.

I hope at least one of you kids gets to relax tonight.
posted by marxchivist at 8:32 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


I know you don't smoke weed, I know this; but I'm gonna get you high today, 'cause it's Friday; you ain't got no job... and you ain't got shit to do.
posted by loquacious at 8:36 PM on October 1, 2010 [4 favorites]


Hi cortex, I didn't see a video from you on the internet today.

I was too busy writing up this Star Wars parody of the big Glengarry Glen Ross speech to make any videos.

posted by cortex (staff) at 8:38 PM on October 1, 2010 [9 favorites]


I'm really literally praying that the rally to restore sanity will somehow jolt everyone out of the rhetorical stupor we've been stuporing in for the last year or so. We could all use a shot of What Truly Matters In Life Which Is More Important Than These Petty Finger-pointing Squabbles and Such. I wish they made a pill for 9-11 Reality Check without all the aftereffects. Or the PTSD.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:38 PM on October 1, 2010 [3 favorites]


I just wanted to say that I'm the guy that moved the link from the deleted fpp to the extant Taibbi thread. I had no problem with the post's removal. I thought the article was appropriate to the discussion in the Tea and Crackers thread, and I didn't mean for my comment to indicate that I was displeased with the fpp's deletion.
posted by Trochanter at 8:39 PM on October 1, 2010


There is the theory of the mobius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop.
posted by .kobayashi. at 8:39 PM on October 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


Why are some MetaTalk threads closed?

Anyway, there was and is nothing to talk about. A thread on the Blue got deleted and comments were directed to an open thread on the same subject. The mods surely have better things to do than babysit yet another pointless MeTa thread.
posted by Gator at 8:40 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Deleting mod pretty.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 8:40 PM on October 1, 2010


That's pretty neat cortex. I'm thinking the only way to improve would be for you and jessamyn to act it out. And post the video, of course.
posted by marxchivist at 8:41 PM on October 1, 2010


"A MetaTalk thread has spawned a MetaTalk thread. Someone should make a MetaTalk thread about that."

How many times can a snake swallow its own tail?
posted by HuronBob at 8:41 PM on October 1, 2010


VADER: Third prize is I’m your father.

Can't.
Stop.
Laughing.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:41 PM on October 1, 2010 [6 favorites]


I mean, you know, make the video in your spare time tonight, since there's nothing going on around here.
posted by marxchivist at 8:43 PM on October 1, 2010


I agree with all of the outrage in this thread.
posted by found missing at 8:51 PM on October 1, 2010


Chad Ochocinco cereal boxes inadvertently advertised a phone sex number, and yet no one seems outraged by the fact that there is something such as Chad Ochocinco cereal.
posted by found missing at 8:54 PM on October 1, 2010 [7 favorites]


Closing any MeTa thread seems antithetical to the very concept of MetaTalk

What? MeTa threads are closed all the time, as you could see by briefly skimming the past few days of archives. There's generally a good reason for it. In fact, I wish they'd be closed more often and earlier on. For example, that MeTa thread was completely pointless; I'm a little surprised it wasn't closed as soon as a mod saw it.
posted by John Cohen at 8:57 PM on October 1, 2010


Chad Ochocinc ... O's?
posted by rigby51 at 9:12 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm outraged that I didn't know there was a Chad Ochocinco cereal. Also, that after walking 3 miles and doing Day 1 of Week 2 at 100pushups, I then downed some Pepsi Throwback and Cheetos Puffs. What is wrong with me?!
posted by DrGirlfriend at 9:13 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh for chrissakes. It's Saturday night in mod time. Go out and get drunk or stay home and do so or go to bed early or something but LEAVE META ALONE!!1
posted by rtha at 9:14 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


I agree with all of the outrage in this thread.

Oh, yeah? Well, I only agree with the parts of this thread that have no outrage. But I'm outraged, so I disagree with the previous sentence. Oh shi-
posted by drinkyclown at 9:18 PM on October 1, 2010


i 8 a b
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 9:18 PM on October 1, 2010


I'm hosting a Meetup. Aren't there Metafilter related signs or some such that someone made, to put up at meet ups? I'm lazy high drunk looking all over the archives but can't seem to find where they were mentioned. Anyone?
posted by nomadicink at 9:23 PM on October 1, 2010


I cannot believe people flagged that masturbation post into getting shut down. Metafilter, why you gotta be so deeply square?
posted by stinkycheese at 9:24 PM on October 1, 2010 [4 favorites]


A MetaTalk thread has spawned a MetaTalk thread. Someone should make a MetaTalk thread about that.

I would but then I'd have to rip off my own head, and shit down my neck.
posted by nola at 9:26 PM on October 1, 2010


I usually don't get into popcorn threads this early. I can actually get a seat up front!

*drops popcorn* DAMMIT
posted by davejay at 9:33 PM on October 1, 2010


It's not a full moon tonight, what gives?
posted by deezil at 9:33 PM on October 1, 2010


Oh, dear lord.
posted by zarq at 9:37 PM on October 1, 2010


I don't understand any of this, but it sounds like fun.
posted by amro at 9:38 PM on October 1, 2010


I just checked in on Minecraft and it turns out it's actually a square moon tonight.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:39 PM on October 1, 2010 [14 favorites]


It's Saturday night in mod time.

Whoa. You just blew my mind.
posted by amro at 9:41 PM on October 1, 2010


*chews nicorette gum like has the power to save*
posted by nola at 9:44 PM on October 1, 2010


I was busy playing Elements so I guess I missed the fun.
posted by Splunge at 9:51 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


"It's a square moon tonight" needs to be the name of an '80s style pop song.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:52 PM on October 1, 2010


Closing any MeTa thread seems antithetical to the very concept of MetaTalk (Neiltupper)

As defined by whom?
posted by ocherdraco


By the meaning of the prefix.

There was still active, even if not particularly productive discussion in the thread, so what was gained from closing it? Bandwidth? Memory?
posted by Neiltupper at 9:52 PM on October 1, 2010


Sanity.
posted by unknowncommand at 9:53 PM on October 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


I just started playing Minecraft tonight.

That was like six hours ago. Fuck, man. Then after finally making a torch I got killed by a giant spider. Oh, he'll get his.
posted by kbanas at 10:00 PM on October 1, 2010 [3 favorites]


Neiltupper, you said in your post above that you had wanted to comment (in the closed Meta) but were disappointed to find it closed. Was there something in particular that you felt needed saying there?

It seemed to me like a pretty cut and dried, "we deleted the FPP because there's already an open thread on the same topic, post this in that existing thread" -- and jfuller didn't even really say anything against it being closed. So they closed the Meta because, well, there was no purpose for it to be open. As much as it sometimes feels that way, MeTa isn't a general-purpose chitchat site. Idle threads are the devil's playthings.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:01 PM on October 1, 2010


There was still active, even if not particularly productive discussion in the thread, so what was gained from closing it? Bandwidth? Memory?

Cut off pile on/fighty before it begins.
posted by rtha at 10:03 PM on October 1, 2010


[James Stuart]

Well I just don't know, Martha, I guess there are ways and there are ways. This is a small town. We all know each other. Maybe we don't get along all the time. But by gosh, it's our town. And we love it.

Maybe we should just remember how darn small the town is sometime. And I'm sure that Harvey would agree.

Wouldn't you, Harvey?

Well Harvey thinks that it's a fine town. Just a fine town.

What's that Harvey? Oh yeah, there are a few people here that are.... Why Harvey, that's a nasty word.

Oh Harvey, not everyone is like that. Yeah, a lot are.

Okay Harvey, we'll go to the bar. But stop grabbing the waitress. I mean grow up you silly rabbit.

[/James Stuart]
posted by Splunge at 10:05 PM on October 1, 2010


Aren't there Metafilter related signs

Yes. In the Book of Mods 3:16, it is written that in the years leading up to 2012, there shall be signs, and flameouts on the first night of the new fiscal year, especially if the Moon be a waning crescent.
posted by lukemeister at 10:10 PM on October 1, 2010


Yes. In the Book of Mods 3:16, it is written that in the years leading up to 2012, there shall be signs, and flameouts on the first night of the new fiscal year, especially if the Moon be a waning crescent.
You can talk about your Psalms, you can talk about your John 3:16's... well Mod 3:16 says I just whooped your ass.
posted by deezil at 10:13 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


And lo, the Almighty M-d,
Blessed be His Name
Smote the thread flagged
by the grateful people of Mefi
And a terrible whining arose
To protest His righteous smiting.
posted by zarq at 10:18 PM on October 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


It's Saturday night in mod time.

Whoa. You just blew my mind.



I know we've only know each other 4 weeks and 3 days, but to me it seems like 9 weeks and 5 days. The 1st day seemed like a week. And the 2nd day seemed like 5 days. And the 3rd day seemed like a week again. And the 4th day seemed like 8 days. But the 5th day, you went to see your mother, and that seemed just like as day. But then you came back, and later, on the 6th day in the evening when we saw each other, that started seeming like 2 days. So in the evening it seemed like 2 days spilling over into the next day, and that started seeming like 4 days. So at the end of the 6th day, on into the 7th day, that seemed like a total of 5 days. And the 6th day seemed like a week and a half.
posted by amyms at 10:40 PM on October 1, 2010 [6 favorites]


Its in the water. Its the only explanation.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:40 PM on October 1, 2010


Metafilter: Third prize is I’m your father.
posted by nevercalm at 11:29 PM on October 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Why are we here?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 12:33 AM on October 2, 2010


Neiltupper: “There was still active, even if not particularly productive discussion in the thread, so what was gained from closing it? Bandwidth? Memory?”

Er – please stop me if I'm wrong, but it sounds distinctly like you've misunderstood jfuller's (now-closed) metatalk post. He said "re-post it to the open thread here," and if you don't notice the linkage one the word "here" you might be under the impression that that metatalk thread he just posted is the place to repost comments. But that's not what he meant; he linked to the thread here, which is a thread on Metafilter proper (not Metatalk) and is about the same study the article was about – and the relationship of elderly white people to the Tea Party movement.

Did you have comments you wanted to add about that subject, Neiltupper? You still can – you're welcome to. The thread's still open. It's not really the place for Meta-type discussion of deletions and closings and stuff, but you seem to understand that I guess.

If what you had to say was about the deletion, you can just make your comment here, now that there's a forum for it. What's on your mind?
posted by koeselitz at 12:44 AM on October 2, 2010


Now all of you cut out this silliness, modbannit.
posted by koeselitz at 12:45 AM on October 2, 2010 [5 favorites]


cortex: “I just checked in on Minecraft and it turns out it's actually a square moon tonight.”

Yeah, I saw you came in. I didn't say anything because I hadn't figured out how to talk yet, and also I was at the bottom of a hole.
posted by koeselitz at 12:47 AM on October 2, 2010 [9 favorites]


There's not really a Chad Ochocinco breakfast cereal, is there? If there is, how can people eat it through the laughter? I don't know why I find this concept so utterly hilarious, but...shit...does it do interviews with the Terrell Owens Breakfast Cereal?

"T-O'S!"
posted by deep thought sunstar at 12:55 AM on October 2, 2010


Also, since I'm apparently the only one here right now, in both this post and the post it's about, my brain had a late-night parsing fail and all I saw was "they're particularly proud of the deleting mod."

And I wanted to say that, in my own quiet way, I, too, am particularly proud of the deleting mod.

“The bow of the Mod's wrath is bent; justice holds the ban hammer over your heart, and fingers its haft, and it is nothing but the mere pleasure of a Mod, and that of an angry Mod, without any promise or obligation at all, that keeps the ban hammer one moment from being made drunk with your blood. Thus all you that never passed under a great change of heart, by the mighty power of the Spirit of Mathowie upon your souls; all you that were never granted a Brand New Day, and made new creatures, and raised from having closed accounts, to a state of new, and before altogether unexperienced light and life, are in the hands of an angry Mod. However you may gush about "Mefi's own Adam Savage," and may have been to a dozen meetups, and may talk about Metafilter with your families until their eyes doth roll, it is nothing but the Mod's mere pleasure that keeps you from being this moment swallowed up in everlasting destruction. However unconvinced you may now be of the truth of what you hear, by and by you will be fully convinced of it. Those that are gone from being in the like circumstances with you, see that it was so with them; for destruction came suddenly upon most of them; when they expected nothing of it, and while they were saying, 'ha ha, I've got free speech, they can't censor me and I think you're a pussy': now they see, that those things on which they depended for peace and safety, were nothing but thin air and empty shadows.”
posted by koeselitz at 1:03 AM on October 2, 2010 [14 favorites]


Koeselitz, I have looked kindly upon thy efforts, and have bestowed upon thy hilarious witticisms the mark of Favorite. Thusly shalt thou wander unmolested in the land, for whomsoever calleth thou an "asshole" for holding thine own political views shalt be smote with the great and terrible light of Flag.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 1:14 AM on October 2, 2010 [4 favorites]


Why don't you take this to MetaMetaTalk?

Tired old Metafilter in-jokes need love too.
posted by joshuaconner at 1:27 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


that should be "thine efforts." Gaaaahhhhh. I shalt retire to mine leafy bower presently.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 1:35 AM on October 2, 2010


Aren't there Metafilter related signs

I'm not sure what I see
Please mods don't fuck with me!
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Deleting all my posts, making my comments toast,
Are you telling me this is a sign?

Don't think about it, Jess, leave my posts alone,
Cortex you ain't no G,
Mefi loves iPhones, israeli drones and the SLYT,
So let my self-links be..
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:05 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


It is official. Netcraft now confirms: MetaTalk is dying.

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered MetaTalk community when Neiltupper confirmed by demonstration that MetaTalk users are able and willing to post dozens of comments about absolutely nothing, now up to 60 comments in this very thread. Coming on the heels of a recent thread by jfuller, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along: MetaTalk is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by this thread still being open.
posted by finite at 2:36 AM on October 2, 2010


Fuck art: let's dance!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:42 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


Which is it, stav? I think we'd better be clear on this; I'd hate to make a mistake.
posted by koeselitz at 2:52 AM on October 2, 2010


Doing both at the same time might give you a cramp, it is true. If you're limber enough, go nuts, I say.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:00 AM on October 2, 2010



Why are we here?



to post pictures of much younger selves napping with a cat
posted by The Whelk at 3:41 AM on October 2, 2010


It's Stewart, damn it.... Stuart is the idiot I worked with a few years ago, and now, because of you, my blood pressure will be up all day...!
posted by HuronBob at 5:13 AM on October 2, 2010


Why are we here?

Because we're not all there.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:09 AM on October 2, 2010


Where else would we be?
posted by rtha at 6:52 AM on October 2, 2010


we have no where else to go!
posted by The Whelk at 7:15 AM on October 2, 2010


also I was at the bottom of a hole.

I played Minecraft. I started walking and then a dug a hole until the ground turned a sunny orange. Now I am stuck in the hole. It is nice and sunny in this hole. There is a blue square here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:27 AM on October 2, 2010 [11 favorites]


I don't really see the appeal of Minecraft. However if someone crossed it with 3D Tetris I think we might have something rather awesome.
posted by Decani at 7:59 AM on October 2, 2010


It says I have to install Java. I'm not going to let any damn game tell me what to do.
posted by nomadicink at 8:01 AM on October 2, 2010


You have no idea what a crack-laced time-sucking bullet of never-going-outside-again you just dodged, my friend.
posted by Gator at 8:08 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I don't really see the appeal of Minecraft. However if someone crossed it with 3D Tetris I think we might have something rather awesome.

One of the appealing things about Minecraft is that, with some more development to the redstone circuitry angle, someone could potentially build a 3D Tetris machine in the game.

Really, it's one of those games where you like it if you like it; I love it to death but have a hard time conveying the appeal in precise terms, and I take it as a given that for a lot of people it'd be maybe not so engaging even if they tried it and for a lot more people the idea of putting an hour into it to find out is itself not super appealing. And that's a-okay.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:15 AM on October 2, 2010


This is my mine. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My pick is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my pick is useless. Without my pick, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must dig faster than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must cut him before he cut me. I will. Before Notch I swear this creed: my sword and myself are defenders of my mine, we are the masters of creepers, we are the saviors of my mine. So be it, until there is no enemy, but pits. Amen.
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh hey, another minecraft thread.

My friends have started to realize that it's a game they can play with their kids. I think that maybe people are underestimating the upside for this game. We're probably looking at farmville levels of success once it's cleaned up.
posted by empath at 8:38 AM on October 2, 2010


Minecraft threads expand (dig) to fill all available space.
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 AM on October 2, 2010


My family is threatening to disinherit me for playing Minecraft more or less 24 / 7. I tell them there are worse things I could be addicted to but it is beginning to spill over into the rest of my life. Not only do I get scared going outside after dark now but I went into the downstairs bathroom, which is a monster spawning pit from hell and I was like, look! Kachunk, kachunk, kachunk, open it up, thwop, thwop, thwop, glass, and the bathroom will be great!

Too much Minecraft, Mom, said my daughter sternly. Too much.

Also, creepers? Fuck creepers. Stupid creeper killed me last night just as I was putting the finishing touches on my underwater glass pyramid. Now the world will never know the immensity of my vision! Well, until I make another one.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:55 AM on October 2, 2010


I get that my post didn't go over well and I'm not opposed to its deletion, however I haven't had enough caffeine to tell if this or the previous meta is some sort of callout. I'm having a Bad Day so if there is something that needs to be said to me lemme know via memail.
posted by desjardins at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2010


So, this is kind of mk II of that: why do we need this post to talk about the closing of that last post that we didn't really need? Do you feel there's a systemic problem here that needs addressing...

Yes, there is a systemic problem, cortex. Do you not see the irony in belittling a complaint posted in a location that is specifically designed for appeal, implying that the complaint is silly because the original deletion was obviously warranted? Or is the tautology lost on you because the jokey ass kissers and derailleurs validate your misguided logic? Both you and jessamyn do a lot of good work, but you often seem heavy-handed, possessive, touchy, and defensive. Matt does not strike me this way. There are a lot of smart people here. You don't have to agree with all the appeals, but loosen up and listen. Take things less personally.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:01 AM on October 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


MetaTalk is the one place we pretty much have to be. It's where people, among other things, talk to us and the rest of the community about issues they're having. jfuller's post didn't make a ton of sense to us and we both asked him to clarify what he was hoping to acocmplish or what he needed from us. We gave it a good two hours and then decided we'd close the thread and let someone else open a new one if there really was some pressing issue that we were somehow missing whether via mod blindness or not having done a close read on the threads in question.

Both of us had a first reading of "take your comments that you would have put in the closed thread and put them in this MeTa thread" which is not really what MeTa is or should be for. So, with that one reading, and without further clarification, we decided to close the thread. Yeah, we're posessive sometimes. We're also, ultimately responsible and held responsible to a greater degree than anyone else here and we have to make [and be answerable to] judgment calls like that one.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:06 AM on October 2, 2010


Stuart is the idiot I worked with a few years ago.

Nah. This is Stuart!
posted by ericb at 9:12 AM on October 2, 2010


Do you not see the irony in belittling a complaint posted in a location that is specifically designed for appeal, implying that the complaint is silly because the original deletion was obviously warranted?

I took it that the thought was: if as the poster of a Meta, you think the original deletion was unwarranted for some reason you need to SAY WHY so we can talk about it. Otherwise it's "is not" "is too" which goes nowhere.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:20 AM on October 2, 2010


Yes, there is a systemic problem, cortex. Do you not see the irony in belittling a complaint posted in a location that is specifically designed for appeal, implying that the complaint is silly because the original deletion was obviously warranted?

I didn't say it was silly, I said I didn't know what it was intended to accomplish. My read was that Neiltupper had misunderstood what jfuller was referring to with "open thread" in the previous metatalk thread and opened this to complain about us closing what he thought was the open thread jfuller mentioned. We closed jfuller's thread after letting it sit there for a couple hours hoping that he'd show back up to clarify what was up, because barring that it wasn't clear what it was there for either.

Metatalk is a place for community members to bring up things that need discussion, absolutely. I think it's a vital part of how this place works and has worked over the years; the idea that I feel any other way about it requires pretty much never having paid attention to anything I've said in the last four years.

But it's not a carte blanche thing where opening a thread for no apparent reason is a non-issue. Stuff has gotten closed since forever—or, more specifically, for years, prior to which there was no closure and so Matt just plain deleted things. It's not a new development.

So, jfuller's post wasn't really clearly accomplishing anything at all, people were confused by it, us mods said we were hoping for clarification or we'd close it, clarification never came, and we closed it. That's pretty straightforward.

Neiltupper's post here feels to me like it's got an incorrect assumption in the premise: that he thought we were closing what jfuller had intended to be a new open thread, when jfuller was (for whatever still-unclear reason) pointing out that people could take comments from the deleted second Tea Party mefi thread to the still-open Tea Party mefi thread from a couple days earlier, as noted in the deletion reason. So that leaves me feeling unclear on what the intent is here in making a post about jfuller's metatalk post and quoting jfuller's bit about an open thread.

That's about all of it. I'm not mocking or belittling Neiltupper or his complaint, I'm making it clear that I don't understand what the complaint is exactly. We didn't close this thread or tell him he's a bad person.

Matt does not strike me this way.

Matt does proportionally little of the daily in-the-trenches work. Which is fine: he hired us to deal with the moderation stuff that he's largely not doing these days in lieu of running the business-side of things and doing site development with pb. Which works out really well generally speaking as a division of labor, but it means in part that if you don't find yourself at odds with what Matt's saying administratively in this or that thread it's partly because there's not a whole lot that he's saying in the first place compared to how present he'd be in these discussions five years ago.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:22 AM on October 2, 2010


Wait: so will Minecraft cure my partner of his Warcraft addiction?
posted by sadiehawkinstein at 9:41 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


why does that sound to me like using meth to get away from crack?
posted by hippybear at 9:46 AM on October 2, 2010


After several days where I played quite a bit of Minecraft, all my dreams started taking place in it's blocky world. I've decided to cut back quite a bit.
posted by JiBB at 9:55 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


So how many levels of meta deep are we in this meta?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:02 AM on October 2, 2010


At least 3. We could be here decades waiting for "the drop."
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:18 AM on October 2, 2010 [3 favorites]


What the hell? I can't even figure out who's angry about what, much less why.

I got so sucked into minecraft. It was like 5 minutes of confusion, a glance at the wiki, and I was a goner. I actually really like how crappy the game is (in the sense of polish, bugs, useless items, etc.) I cannot even begin to articulate the appeal. Something about the rawness, blocky geometry, and inexplicable elements hit the spot where other sandbox games have just bored me. I'm a little concerned that notch is hiring a development team to turn it into a real game. This could make it even greater, or kill something essential to my enjoyment of it.
posted by cj_ at 10:29 AM on October 2, 2010


(my pyramid is coming a long so much better with the ephinany that it doesn't have to be solid. Love how it looks at night covered in torches)
posted by cj_ at 10:31 AM on October 2, 2010


At least 3. We could be here decades waiting for "the drop."

I'm waiting for "the kick" myself.
posted by ericb at 10:47 AM on October 2, 2010


DROPKICK
posted by boo_radley at 11:13 AM on October 2, 2010


BYERRRRRN

BYERRRRRN
posted by boo_radley at 11:19 AM on October 2, 2010


Anyone need a hug?
posted by The Lady is a designer at 11:31 AM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm just going to say I haven't paid attention to anything cortex has said for the last 4 hours.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:41 AM on October 2, 2010


Why is minecraft so ugly? It really sounds interesting, but I can't get past the fact that I find it hideous.
posted by nooneyouknow at 11:42 AM on October 2, 2010


Anyone need a hug?

I'd rather have a screenshot of cj_'s pyramid.
posted by heyho at 11:43 AM on October 2, 2010


Assault rifle recs? $2k is my upper spending limit for one.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:47 AM on October 2, 2010


Again with the mod-bashing? Really? It's a big fucking internet Neiltupper. Do I need to write down directions to someplace else for you or something?
posted by timsteil at 12:02 PM on October 2, 2010


Why is minecraft so ugly?

Because it was built after class by Klaus in the computer lab. We were waiting for him to finish writing it so we could play instead of doing homework.
posted by The Lady is a designer at 12:03 PM on October 2, 2010


For 2 grand I would get an AR-15 with a few toys to go with and a Remington 870 Marine Magnum 12ga shotgun.
posted by BeerFilter at 12:06 PM on October 2, 2010


nomadicink: “It says I have to install Java. I'm not going to let any damn game tell me what to do.”

I can tell you that it works remarkably well (albeit without sound, although sound isn't exactly essential) on the OpenJDK.
posted by koeselitz at 12:13 PM on October 2, 2010


koeselitz and Cortex are correct. The link got dropped in my cut and paste. which confused the issue I was raising.

The comment that I had wanted to make still, related to a response in the jfuller thread. It was the arbitrary closing of that thread less than three hours after it was opened that prompted my post.
posted by Neiltupper at 12:15 PM on October 2, 2010


Matt does not strike me this way

I miss Mommy. When is Mommy coming home. Mommy cuts the corners off my peanut butter sandwiches. Mommy lets me rewind the videotape of America's Funniest Home Videos so I can see Bob Saget make that face again and again. I miss Mommy.
posted by setanor at 12:16 PM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


It was the arbitrary closing of that thread less than three hours after it was opened that prompted my post.

Are you now satisfied with the reasoning behind that closure as it's been explained as entirely non-arbitrary?
posted by setanor at 12:17 PM on October 2, 2010


Decani: “I don't really see the appeal of Minecraft. However if someone crossed it with 3D Tetris I think we might have something rather awesome.”

It should be pointed out that someone awesome in the MeFightClub Minecraft world has built a really sweet version of Connect 4 that I stumbled over and played with for a while last night. It's not exactly Tetris, I know, but if falling-block games are your bag, well... also, the thing people love about Minecraft, as cortex says, is that, if it hasn't been built, you can probably build it. Getting there is where the enjoyment comes in.
posted by koeselitz at 12:17 PM on October 2, 2010


It says I have to install Java. I'm not going to let any damn game tell me what to do.

Sorry, you need to own a computer to play this game.
posted by setanor at 12:17 PM on October 2, 2010


Anyone taking bets on how long it will take before someone creates Minecraft in Minecraft?
posted by setanor at 12:18 PM on October 2, 2010


The comment that I had wanted to make still, related to a response in the jfuller thread. It was the arbitrary closing of that thread less than three hours after it was opened that prompted my post.

On the having-a-thread-close-when-you-want-to-comment thing, I totally hear you. It's frustrating to feel like you missed your chance to jump into a conversation. It happens to me sometimes too.

But the thread closure wasn't arbitrary, and we did make it really clear that it was likely to happen barring some development that never manifested itself. Metatalk can be fairly loosey-goosey and free-for-all conversationally at times, but that doesn't mean it's actually always going to be a "well, talk about whatever you feel like indefinitely" situation and threads do get closed sometimes if it doesn't seem like there's a reason for them to be open.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:20 PM on October 2, 2010


I'm waiting for "the kick" myself.

Shows how much attention I paid to that stupid POS. What a disappointing movie, even though I was utterly primed for disappointment. It exceeded my expectations for disappontingness.

*opening credits* Dunnn DUNNN!
"Military technology..."
*waves hand*

Disbelief comes unsuspended, crashing to the floor. Ugh.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:24 PM on October 2, 2010


nooneyouknow: “Why is minecraft so ugly? It really sounds interesting, but I can't get past the fact that I find it hideous.”

People keep saying this, but I have had exactly the opposite reaction since I started playing. Yes, I know that things are 'pixellated,' in that they're all blocky; but really, the moment you get in there and start looking around, you're astounded, particularly if you have the graphics set to 'fancy.'

I don't know if you've played it any at all, but I highly recommend this: set difficulty to 'hard' (terrain is more complex then, I think – that's how it seems to me, anyway) and then start a new world in single-player mode. The terrain generator is really perfectly tuned to spit out some gorgeous vistas; mountains with sheer cliffs that shoot up hundreds of feet, bluffs with trees overhanging deep blue lagoons, whirling snowstorms on craggy buttes... it may seem like a blocky game like that is going to be ugly, but one of the reasons people engage with it, I think, is because it has a really simple beauty to it.

One of the things I like is the fact that it's not precisely realistic. There are often whole islands, with green hills and forests, hanging in the sky. The other day I built a tower about a hundred meters up to one of these floating islands, then dug up into it until I was on top; I could see for miles and miles, distant hills and mountains fading off into the mist. Then I jumped off.

Here's the developer Notch's flythrough from the end of June testing the latest iteration of the terrain generator. I think it's pretty clear from watching that that the impression that Minecraft is blocky and ugly is mostly a misperception that comes from watching crappy fan captures, and isn't really true. There's some beautiful stuff there.
posted by koeselitz at 12:29 PM on October 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


Eh, played it, dug a hole down to lava, became stuck, then bored. What else ya got?
posted by nomadicink at 12:37 PM on October 2, 2010


Why is minecraft so ugly? It really sounds interesting, but I can't get past the fact that I find it hideous.

Graphics are tertiary to the best games. If somebody is going off on how awesome the graphics are, you can bet your last gold piece the game sucks. Conversely, with everyone freaking their pants off over Minecraft DESPITE the 8-bit graphics, that should be telling you something.
posted by Aquaman at 12:38 PM on October 2, 2010


That video might have just sold me on Minecraft, koeselitz.
posted by joedan at 12:44 PM on October 2, 2010


Shows how much attention I paid to that stupid POS. What a disappointing movie, even though I was utterly primed for disappointment. It exceeded my expectations for disappontingness.

I can't say I was disappointed exactly: The synchronized action sequences were neat (even though one of the levels was apparently included just so they could crank it up to 11), the formulaic development, big gaping plot holes and arbitrary exposition not so much. Having become completely desensitized to CGI, I give it a meh.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:09 PM on October 2, 2010


Is Minecraft the help I need to get out of my Kingdom of Loathing addiction?
posted by catlet at 1:15 PM on October 2, 2010


Is heroin the help you need to get out of your crack addiction?
posted by empath at 1:17 PM on October 2, 2010


Why is minecraft so ugly? It really sounds interesting, but I can't get past the fact that I find it hideous.

It's not ugly.
posted by empath at 1:24 PM on October 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


Minecraft is the new recipes.
posted by lalex at 1:51 PM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


But can interacting with an electronic screen ever really replace a snuggly good hug?
posted by The Lady is a designer at 1:59 PM on October 2, 2010


Vocab time: a world in which I need to choose between video games and hugs is called a "dystopia".
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:00 PM on October 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm sure bruces would agree
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:07 PM on October 2, 2010


Can a hug replace eating?
posted by setanor at 2:08 PM on October 2, 2010


The notion that MeTa needs to be all huggy is kind of gross. I can go hug my wife.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:12 PM on October 2, 2010


I meant it in this context

Go hug your wife Burh while I dig for recipes
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:13 PM on October 2, 2010


Okay. I tried Minecraft a while back and thought it sucked. But due to the comments here I went back and tried it again. I just purchased it.

I hate you all. And my girlfriend will no doubt feel the same about me in a day or two.

it's really a strange feeling. I must build a glass bridge. And I don't even know if it's possible. Yet I must.
posted by Splunge at 2:30 PM on October 2, 2010


mnecraft has coined the phrase "sigur ros waterside." Surely that is enough.
posted by boo_radley at 2:31 PM on October 2, 2010


You know what they say about people who build glass bridges and... throw rocks... don't you?
posted by P.o.B. at 2:35 PM on October 2, 2010


They don't get hugged or fed?

*ducks and runs*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:36 PM on October 2, 2010


Conversely, with everyone freaking their pants off over Minecraft DESPITE the 8-bit graphics, that should be telling you something.

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about it like that.

Empath & koeselitz - I watched the videos and I could see beauty in them, but weirdly, I kept bouncing off the clouds. I kept thinking "WTF, clouds aren't square." Eh,mMaybe I'm just shallow.

I'll try playing it again and see if grows on me.
posted by nooneyouknow at 2:50 PM on October 2, 2010


I suppose notch could round off all the cubes, but it would basically just be hiding game mechanics. The world is basically a 3-d cellular automata. It's based on a simple ruleset like World of Sand, but on a nearly infinite scale.

Part of the charm of minecraft is it's predictability and making the world more graphically complex would take away from that. It's a very readable world.
posted by empath at 3:06 PM on October 2, 2010


Woops, actually meant to link this version.
posted by empath at 3:07 PM on October 2, 2010


PROTIP to you stuck-in-a-holers: you can bunnyhop straight back up. Just face down and place one of the blocks you dug underneath you at the apex of your jump. You can climb into the sky this way too, just beware on single player fall damage can kill you.
posted by cj_ at 4:06 PM on October 2, 2010


I want to try minecraft so bad but I am already addicted to EVE Online. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if I bought minecraft my marriage would probably be ending by the end of the week. So I have to live vicariously through my corpmates and their fraps videos, forum posts, and of course the teamspeak chatter. The saving grace of EVE is that you can progress your character without playing the game.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:09 PM on October 2, 2010


catlet : Is Minecraft the help I need to get out of my Kingdom of Loathing addiction?

For me, switching to Mafia as my client worked. For a few weeks, I absolutely loved how it took a lot of the grindy bits out of the game. Then I started adding more and more automation, until I realized it would literally take me from "welcome back, noob" to "hi-keeba!" in one click (given a few days, of course - I only played HC).

I pretty much just stopped playing, at that point.
posted by pla at 6:45 PM on October 2, 2010


I am currently hiding in a hole with the hopes of building a CRYSTAL TOWER
posted by The Whelk at 7:39 PM on October 2, 2010


Having read a bit, I knew to build stone walls to protect myself at night. The first time a zombie came sniffing around, moaning, was wonderfully creepy. Especially with 5.1 headphones. Then one night I heard this strange *plink plink* sound. I knew it was probably no good but I wanted to see what it was.

I was instantly killed by a skeleton shooting arrows.

This is a lot of fun. I am so screwed.
posted by Splunge at 7:52 PM on October 2, 2010


Aquaman: "Graphics are tertiary to the best games. If somebody is going off on how awesome the graphics are, you can bet your last gold piece the game sucks."

Four words.

Super Mario Galaxy Two.
posted by Effigy2000 at 8:42 PM on October 2, 2010


Anyone taking bets on how long it will take before someone creates Minecraft in Minecraft?

I can't decide what would be more predictable: Minecraft in Emacs, or Emacs in Minecraft.

Holy shit, now it makes sense. Minecraft is the Emacs of video games.

It's not ugly.

Minus the "World of Minecraft" signs, that was magical. Someone wake up Roger Ebert.
posted by middleclasstool at 10:04 PM on October 2, 2010


Graphics are tertiary to the best games. If somebody is going off on how awesome the graphics are, you can bet your last gold piece the game sucks.

Is this the part where we talk about Snood?
posted by AkzidenzGrotesk at 12:00 AM on October 3, 2010


Is this the part where we talk about Snood Geometry Wars?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:59 AM on October 3, 2010


I spent some time wandering around The Aporkalypse last night. I am just blown away by... well everything. It's a truly amazing thing that a world of such intricacy and detailed beauty can be maintained in a shared space. I am so proud of you all.

No time for more typing. Minecraft awaits.
posted by Splunge at 10:15 AM on October 3, 2010


I love the smell of burning zombie in the morning...
posted by Splunge at 10:53 AM on October 3, 2010


Minecraft is ugly, there's no way to get around that. But the game itself sounds really interesting. I'll give it a try in the next couple days if I can get the site to load. I tried several times on Thursday and it wouldn't load.
posted by deborah at 8:33 PM on October 3, 2010


It know it's a matter of taste, and de gustibus etc etc, but even though I'm not as obsessed with the whole 8-bit aesthetic as many are, I find Minecraft incredibly beautiful given the self-imposed meta-pixel limitations. Stand near Dogface's hamsa on the Aporkalypse as the sun sets and the torchlight begins to illuminate it, and have your breath taken away.

Well, it does me, anyway.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:32 PM on October 3, 2010


There are a lot of good texture packs that really improve the aesthetics. Especially painterly, and the seasonal one.
posted by empath at 6:01 AM on October 4, 2010


Yeah, what Minecraft is is aggressively low-resolution in a couple senses. Which isn't ugly or not-ugly except by very narrow definitions. But the kind of stuff you get from an out-of-context screenshot doesn't really give people the context to see anything other than what's in the context: flat, large, blocky surfaces covered with extremely visible texture pixels.

The closest few blocks take up a big chunk of the scene, if it's not a like carefully posed aerial photo; the textures on each of those blocks are only 16*16 pixels; there's only so many different visible textures on a typical landscape, so there's lots of repetition; there's no smooth curves; the player and animal models are boxier than a Volvo and even more stingy with the texture pixels. None of this is engaging in a vacuum: it's just blocky screenshots. With nothing else to go on, and based on current cultural expectations of graphical video game experiences, it's no shock that the game comes off as ugly at a glance. It's missing twenty years of polish. It looks like an early tech demo for the original Playstation, "we've got polygons if only just!"

The real sales pitch for Minecraft is about how it plays, what the experience of getting sucked into the living world it represents feels like, how the hours disappear, how the hiss of a creeper from behind you in a dark cranny of the natural cave you've been exploring for the last hour makes you realize one moment too late that your hunger for ore has made you incautious. It's about the way this silly-looking blocky lo-res game manages to be so compelling and immersive that a cubic, hopping zombie under a square moon scares you more than the last few horror films you've seen, and that a square sun coming up on the voxel-strewn horizon is the biggest relief you've felt all week.

Like stavros says, no accounting for taste and the graphics aren't a literal up-front selling point for most people, but it's a marvelous endorsement of how well this little infinite world has been put together even so far that if nothing else you stop remotely caring about the graphics once you get into it, and that further to that you begin to like and care about that strange blocky aesthetic because it begins to make sense, begins to feel like a home away from home, once you've learned to think in that blocky way. At that point, you wonder how the sun could be anything but square.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:17 AM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]


The working Mefightclub server is a lonely place.....
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 AM on October 4, 2010


Aw, score! I found a big room with lots of iron and redstone!

Aw, crap! Some dude just blew up and almost killed me! What the hell?
posted by dirigibleman at 7:52 AM on October 4, 2010


Minecraft seems really interesting and there's part of me that wants to get into it after reading this thread. But from the screenshots and movies I've found, it looks like a first-person game... and I've never yet found one of those that didn't make me seasick.
posted by nickmark at 12:19 PM on October 4, 2010


You can turn off the head-bobbing (this is advised, frankly).

Also, there is a "view from behind" option (so you're above and behind your little character guy, looking forward). That usually helps people with the sea-sickness thing in first-person games.
posted by koeselitz at 12:26 PM on October 4, 2010


Nausea is why I prefer Civilization and Age of Empires to Doom and Castle Wolfenstein (er, am I dating myself? ;p )
posted by The Lady is a designer at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2010


I can't get how to build things. Is it because I have a Mac...? I am just in this underground room that is now bright orange in all directions. Do I sit and wait for a zombie?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:36 PM on October 4, 2010


It's kind of impossible to get started without a tutorial. Here's a decent one on how to survive your first night, which goes over basic controls and crafting.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:47 PM on October 4, 2010


I am just in this underground room that is now bright orange in all directions. Do I sit and wait for a zombie?

I am loving your Minecraft comments, Jessamyn. I am not kidding. Say some more stuff about your Minecraft experience, please. I promise I am not making fun.
posted by Gator at 12:56 PM on October 4, 2010


The working Mefightclub server is a lonely place.....

Well, on the Aporkalypse, even with my skewed timezone, it is very very rare that I am the only person there. It is often too full to connect.

We're running a metagame on the other server, but I'm not playing that, so I don't know how many people are usually there.

The servers do go down occasionally, usually briefly, for fiddling around with stuff or just bugs.

(Once again I recommend signing up at Mefightclub if you want to get into the full Meficraft goodness and know what's going on where and when -- and get into long involved discussions about land use and such, in true Meta tradition. At the very least you can drop in to draw dotted lines between your username in Minecraft and your username here (and, if it's different, your username at MFC) because, man, there are a lot of usernames I don't recognize these days in-game! (Which is both good because yay more friends to play with and bad because we probably know you but don't recognize you because the username-linkage is a mystery!)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:11 PM on October 4, 2010


Minecraft seems really interesting and there's part of me that wants to get into it after reading this thread. But from the screenshots and movies I've found, it looks like a first-person game... and I've never yet found one of those that didn't make me seasick.

Just remembered this: hit F5 ingame and it's now 3rd person! Huzzah!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:20 AM on October 5, 2010


jessamyn: “I can't get how to build things. Is it because I have a Mac...? I am just in this underground room that is now bright orange in all directions. Do I sit and wait for a zombie?”

I am not exactly an expert, but I've played a bit now, and I really have no idea how you've started in this odd situation. I don't even think you're playing the same game as the rest of us. cortex was probably right when he guessed that you were on the ancient version of Minecraft; you didn't pay 10 euros to play this one, did you? If not, well... it's not really the Minecraft people are talking about. Hrm.
posted by koeselitz at 8:48 AM on October 5, 2010


Yeah, after some conversation we established that she's been playing Classic. I'm about this close to just buying her a copy of Alpha, but it feels a little bit like handing someone their first cigarette.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:00 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


PUSHERMAN
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2010


DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it!
posted by Splunge at 9:32 AM on October 5, 2010


*tee hees*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 12:19 PM on October 5, 2010


...it feels a little bit like handing someone their first cigarette.
In the same way that gifting someone a MeFi membership is like handing someone their first hit of crack.
posted by dg at 3:43 PM on October 5, 2010


Ahnnold says:
posted by Splunge at 4:12 PM on October 5, 2010


Yeah, OK. I like it.

I'm bad at it - like I'm bad at all video games that involve moving your dude around and using multiple fingers simultaneously - but I like it. The first person thing didn't even make me sick.
posted by nickmark at 11:32 AM on October 6, 2010


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