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November 5, 2010 9:21 AM   Subscribe

Every single request for hip hop recommendations lists the same artists over and over again.

This is not a new phenomenon. Go back several years of meta questions and you see Mos Def, The Roots, Talib Kweli, Blackilicious, Aesop Rock, etc, etc repeated in every answer. What's with meta's infatuation with these people? Why don't we ever get new artist recommendations? Are meta's hip hop listeners stuck in the early 2000s? That is all
posted by ShootTheMoon to MetaFilter-Related at 9:21 AM (197 comments total) 16 users marked this as a favorite

Are meta's hip hop listeners stuck in the early 2000s?

This is clearly wrong.

Everyone knows that proper rap comes from the late 80s and early 90s.
posted by Artw at 9:23 AM on November 5, 2010 [8 favorites]


Do you have any new recommendations?
posted by iamkimiam at 9:23 AM on November 5, 2010 [4 favorites]


Is this hiphop specific in some way? I'd guess very single request for books or music or films or etc. of a given type tend to produce a common hit list that corresponds roughly to the general popularity of those big names or perennial favorites.

People will keep recommending e.g. Ender's Game even though there's been a ton of good scifi written in the interim, because a lot of people know and like Ender's Game.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:24 AM on November 5, 2010


November 5, 2010, is the day that we Officially Ran Out of Real Stuff to Complain About on MetaTalk.
posted by Shepherd at 9:25 AM on November 5, 2010 [47 favorites]


The problem of sucker MCs is with us always.
posted by Joe Beese at 9:27 AM on November 5, 2010 [74 favorites]


It's just that that's what folk here like, I think. MeFi isn't even music-focussed, let alone hip-hop-focussed, so it's no surprise that the bulk of comments in a hip-hop recommendation thread, assuming they come from something like a representative slice of MeFi, wouldnae necessarily come from folk right up to date with nu-bay or jit or whatever.

Also, ahem.
posted by Dim Siawns at 9:28 AM on November 5, 2010


Do you have any new recommendations?

It does seem like you could do a lot to remedy the situation by settin up My Ask to show you hiphop recommendation related threads and then commenting in them.

People will keep recommending e.g. Ender's Game even though there's been a ton of good scifi written in the interim, because a lot of people know and like Ender's Game.

It's no Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance or, personal pet peeve, House of Leaves.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh no, a consensus!
posted by Eideteker at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2010 [8 favorites]


Well, here's how it started. I heard you on the 'filter talking about rap, talking all that crap about asking for samples, giving examples. Think we'll let you get away with that? You criticize our method, how we make recommendations, you said they aren't smart - well now we're gonna rip you apart. Stop, check it out my Mefite, these are the recs of a community site. Old, well you can call them that, but that's a product of the format. This is a point where you misjudged us, speculated, created a fuss. You've made the same mistake other MeTas have - beanplating with no pizazz.
posted by googly at 9:33 AM on November 5, 2010 [40 favorites]


November 5, 2010, is the day that we Officially Ran Out of Real Stuff to Complain About on MetaTalk.

No, that was almost a week ago.
posted by gman at 9:36 AM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


B.O.B, Kid Cudi, Cee-Lo, Bruno Mars, Rhianna.

Ctrl + C
Ctrl + V
posted by morganannie at 9:41 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


If you aren't recommending Dead Prez, you aren't recommending 'Hip Hop.'
posted by shakespeherian at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


Eideteker: "Oh no, a consensus"

"Kill it! Kill the consensus!"

"No! I say let the consensus live!"

"Only a fool would do that! Trap the consensus and put it in a breeding program"

"Free range consensuses, you meddling scum!"

As for the hip hop, I like Brother Ali.
posted by boo_radley at 9:47 AM on November 5, 2010 [4 favorites]


Almost every AskMe question about hip-hop recommendations asks for the same kind of stuff.

If I ever see a question asking about G-funk or turntablism or posse cuts or Wu-Tang solo albums, I'll have some different answers.
posted by box at 9:47 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


shootthemoon, have you heard of the Black Eyed Peas? You should check them out, I think you'd dig them.
posted by Kwine at 9:48 AM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


November 5, 2010, is the day that we Officially Ran Out of Real Stuff to Complain About on MetaTalk.

Remember, remember the 5th of November.
posted by zarq at 9:59 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


My name's D-U
And I'm here to re-commEND
posted by DU at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2010


Don't take it to MeTa
It's a plate o' beans
These rappers we've seen, they're hip-hop has-beens,
Makin the flags rain down like a MON-soon
When you recommend the same old tunes
Mos Def, Roots, and Aesop
Blackilicious and that old school hip hop
What are the odds? These clods you're recommendin' make me call the mods
So I take it to the gray, make it all go away
Today, but it didn't go nice
ShootTheMoon is payin' the price

(many apologies to LL)
posted by rocket88 at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


The problem of sucker MCs is with us always.

I've always wondered if the plural should be "sucker MCs" or "suckers MC." You know, like passers-by, courts-martial and attorneys-general.
posted by slogger at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2010 [16 favorites]


And I meant to italicize that quote.
posted by slogger at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2010


If anyone would care to rebut googly's points, I will be more than happy to serve as judge; raps will be graded on wit, flow and whatever other category I can think of. Each verse will be graded on a scale of one to five dollar signs. Highest total at the end of a currently undetermined period wins.

To start, googly's rating:

$$

Good rhymes, flow was choppy, I believe you can do better and I'm looking forward to seeing it happen when you do.

Let the 2010 Metatalk Rap Battle begin.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:07 AM on November 5, 2010


$$

Needs more swagger, a decent first efffort.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:09 AM on November 5, 2010


Oh god William Safire has come back from the dead and possessed slogger.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:09 AM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


Oh god William Safire has come back from the dead and possessed slogger.

I would pay a not-insubtantial amount of money to see what kind of hip-hop Safire would come up with.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:11 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


I'd guess very single request for books or music or films or etc. of a given type tend to produce a common hit list that corresponds roughly to the general popularity of those big names or perennial favorites.

I think it corresponds to what was popular when the answerer was in college.
posted by smackfu at 10:13 AM on November 5, 2010


Every single request for ensemble Canadian poprock bands results in The New Pornographers!
posted by Threeway Handshake at 10:15 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh hey can I trot out my parody of Girls, Girls, Girls entitled Beans, Beans, Beans?
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:15 AM on November 5, 2010


Every single request for ensemble Canadian poprock bands results in The New Pornographers!

I would have picked Sloan or Tragically Hip.

As for hip-hop, I think like smackfu says, everyone says what was popular when they were in college (not just for hip-hop, often for any other type of music since that was often the last time people were exposed to varying types of music).

About the only recent awesome hip-hop I've grown to love is Black Milk.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:17 AM on November 5, 2010


$$$

I wanted to rate it lower but "That's my fiber-heavy plan" is unfuckwithable.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:18 AM on November 5, 2010


Do you have any new recommendations?

This is the problem I run into, but often look at these types of questions as a prompt to go out in search of new music. That's what happened in the Jean Grae thread; I dumped what I knew in first, and then after exploring for a bit realized that—like many popular genres—most new hip-hop sucks.
posted by carsonb at 10:19 AM on November 5, 2010


For me the issue (the most recent time this was asked) is the qualifications given. A person who says they don't want rap about violence and whatnot is closing off a lot of stuff that doesn't fit into the conscious category. A lot of underground hip-hop is just fantastic - lately I've been really into Jedi Mind Tricks and Army of the Pharaohs but they would probably turn off someone who's shirty about stuff that's too gangsta, though upon giving it a closer listen might appreciate that JMT is a real guy with real problems rapping incredibly well about what ails and concerns him.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:21 AM on November 5, 2010


I'll go ahead and say it: MetaFilter, and most of the internet, prefers backpacker hip-hop and is scared of anything too 'street'. The problem with this is that backpacker hip-hop has been stagnant for most of this decade. There's an unsatisfying answer.
posted by naju at 10:32 AM on November 5, 2010 [9 favorites]


Public Enemy!
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:36 AM on November 5, 2010


Wait, I read the question wrong.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:36 AM on November 5, 2010


after exploring for a bit realized that—like many popular genres—most new hip-hop sucks.

Kid Shazzam: Have you seen that video with that little nasty girl, Little Kims?

Grandmaster Rap: Oh, easy now kid, easy!

Kid Shazzam: Talkin' about her private parts like they're juicy and what not.

Grandmaster Rap: When we rapped, we didn't rap about givin' your man friend fellat-i-os. We rapped about good stuff like sneakers.

Kid Shazzam: And people who talk too much.

Grandmaster Rap: And partying all night long!

Kid Shazzam: And not stopping till the break-a break-a dawn!
posted by electroboy at 10:37 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


Look, the demographic here is late-20s white nerds. Of course they're gonna rep hard for backpack hiphop along with some of the Greatest Hits of Boomboxes in High School.

The same thing happens in every goddamn indie rock thread, where folks get recommendations for a bunch of anemic KCRW bullshit.

MeFi's just not a great place to ask for broad music recommendations, because mostly, you're asking people who have THE EXACT SAME MUSIC REFERENCE POINTS THAT YOU DO.

There are about five users who I would trust for really good recommendations of hip hop, and most of them are still going to drop the Hip Hop 101 stuff without being prompted to look past the broad consensus. This is especially true because there's a consistent push-back on MeFi proper from herbs who still want to grouse about hippity-hop being just people yelling about bitches and bling over samples of music they didn't write. Without touching on the established classics, there's a feeling that you can just get way too obscure and weird really fast, and then whomever asked won't even listen to your recommendations.

Oh, and as a side note: Dead Prez have, like, three good songs and Hip Hop is one of them. The Coup do the same thing but better, and are still pretty limited.

Finally, hip hop's one of the most intensely regional music styles around, and just asking folks what some good rap is won't get the answers that are really interesting and hard to find for the outsider unless someone is totally willing to stan for their little fiefdom, and that can feel weird.

And to end on an upbeat note: I really like this album from my pal Matt G. He's also a pretty great barber if you ever end up in Ypsi.
posted by klangklangston at 10:40 AM on November 5, 2010 [16 favorites]


I'm convinced that every music recommendation thread, no matter the parameters set forth, is just a chance for people to mention their favorite bands.
posted by bondcliff at 10:42 AM on November 5, 2010


backpacker hip-hop

No, you're thinking of Backpac Shakur, The Boots, etc
posted by sleevener at 10:45 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


Three good songs? One of 'em was... uh... the other was 'Hip Hop.'
posted by box at 10:45 AM on November 5, 2010


Am I too late to recommend Joaquin Phoenix?
posted by shakespeherian at 10:46 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


5'nizza - Big Badda Boom
posted by nomisxid at 10:47 AM on November 5, 2010


PS recent recs? The Odd Future crew.
posted by naju at 10:47 AM on November 5, 2010


I've always wondered if the plural should be "sucker MCs" or "suckers MC."

Since it's derived from "master of ceremonies," I guess it should be "sucker MsC" (pron. "ems cee"). But that looks and sounds ridiculous, so sucker MCs it is.
posted by jedicus at 10:49 AM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


Besides most AskMe hip-hop questions being pretty similar, another reason people tend to give the same recommendations, I think, is that nearly everyone who asks these questions expresses a desire to stay away from misogyny and violence and homophobia and suchlike.

But people have different standards and triggers and stuff when it comes to that kind of thing, and I think folks are reluctant to recommend a wide range of artists (e.g. Rhymefest or Common), lest they inadvertantly offend.
posted by box at 10:50 AM on November 5, 2010


For new hip hop, try POS.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:52 AM on November 5, 2010


How rigorous is the course of study required to receive one's Master's of Ceremony?

Or is the honorific... wait for it...





ceremonial?
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:55 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


*still waiting for it*
posted by shakespeherian at 10:56 AM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


Ooh! Play that song "You Say He's Just A Friend" by what's-his-name. I love that song!
posted by koeselitz at 11:01 AM on November 5, 2010


"suckers MC."

I love you.
posted by Forktine at 11:01 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


I like a lot of the Brainfeeder stuff, but, again, that's not what people are asking about in their hip-hop AskMe questions.
posted by box at 11:02 AM on November 5, 2010


To start, googly's rating:

$$

Good rhymes, flow was choppy, I believe you can do better and I'm looking forward to seeing it happen when you do.


Fair enough, but I'd like to mildly protest that the choppy flow was the result of the blatant biting.
posted by googly at 11:07 AM on November 5, 2010


Would it be fair to think of this callout, and subsequent thread, as MeFi's very own rap battle? Because that's what I want to do.
posted by .kobayashi. at 11:10 AM on November 5, 2010


I don't remember who or where, but I know somebody on Metafilter recommended Qwel & Jackson Jones's 2009 album Dark Day. Whoever it was – thanks. It's fucking awesome.
posted by koeselitz at 11:12 AM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


I'm sure the same thing would occur if people asked for the best of alt gothic circus country and blues.
posted by nomadicink at 11:15 AM on November 5, 2010


Is this a good place to plug my brother's stuff? Because it might be gangster, as much as "I used to go to Catholic school and now I don't but I'm making music" can be gangster.
posted by theichibun at 11:21 AM on November 5, 2010


That The Roots album came out this June and matches the parameters of the question, should it not be recced because they're an older group? if you only like new groups, rec new groups. If the question only wanted groups that formed recently it should have said so.
posted by shinybaum at 11:21 AM on November 5, 2010


Would it be fair to think of this callout, and subsequent thread, as MeFi's very own rap battle? Because that's what I want to do.

Then get rapping!
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:27 AM on November 5, 2010


As cortex alludes. this is in no way hip-hop specific. Any request for recommendations in a given medium or genre will produce a few thoughtful replies in which folks tailor their recommendations to the request, and a great deal more replies in which folks recommend a bunch of artists they like regardless of how poorly they meet the criteria.

I see this most in requests for SF/fantasy literature because, as with the OP and hip-hop, it is the niche with which I am most familiar. It's gotten to the point where I have to bite my tongue hard not to snark and simply make a blanket "some of these recommendations do not fit the OP's question". I don't think badly tailored recommendations are deliberate. It's just an extension of that phenomenon where people who are bad at something can't tell that they are bad at it. So the people who reply to a question asking for well-written, high quality SF with a recommendation that the OP should really try some Robert Jordan or Mercedes Lackey or whatever aren't being disingenuous, they just don't realize they're, uh, wrong.

The second issue is that there ends up being a core canon of recommendations which do fit most requests and those are rightly suggested over and over. If a series of people all ask for classic movies about the Mafia, you're going to get suggestions of the first two Godfather movies, Goodfellas, Casino, and so on over and over. Because that's just the right answer to the question.

This Meta is more about the second phenomena than the first. It's not actually a problem except in the sense that people ask the same questions instead of looking at old ones. Oh, but Jordan and Lackey still suck.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on November 5, 2010 [6 favorites]


"Cortex alludes" is the new "Dude abides".
posted by Justinian at 11:28 AM on November 5, 2010 [8 favorites]


Justinian: "So the people who reply to a question asking for well-written, high quality SF with a recommendation that the OP should really try some Robert Jordan or Mercedes Lackey or whatever aren't being disingenuous, they just don't realize they're, uh, wrong."

Are you saying that Robert Jordan isn't high quality or isn't SF? I'll give you one of those.
posted by theichibun at 11:35 AM on November 5, 2010


I've read every single comic/graphic novel thread in the hopes of learning something and the same thing happens, some people tailor and some people rec Bone and a shortlist of others because they love it.

If people want better/different answers they need to read previous questions so they can ask better questions. If people didn't write the question they can always give better answers.
posted by shinybaum at 11:35 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Metal recommendation threads are also pretty uninteresting... and, frankly, they probably should be, given how many people give Nile and Dimmu Borgir the Best Answer on a "recommend me some extreme underground metal" thread.

In my experience, most people who ask these questions really don't want anything off the beaten path -- instead, they want a few recommendations for bands they can get started with, because hey, they're just getting started. Either that'll lead them in deeper, or not... but when someone asks for "extreme metal", replying with "check out the Kerasphorus mCD arrrrrrrrrrrgh!" tends to be disappointingly counter-productive, despite being a correct answer to the actual question asked.
posted by vorfeed at 11:36 AM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


something something Ke$ha something
posted by hermitosis at 11:37 AM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


is this just confirmation bias? i mean, yeah, all the artists you mention get mentioned in those threads, but there's also a lot more than just those, and quite of few of them pretty current.

also: last albums by your listed artists...

Mos Def - 2009
The Roots 2010 (x2)
Talib Kweli - 2010
Blackilicious - 2006, and working on a release for 2011
Aesop Rock - 2007, but still appearing on many current songs.

so - is this a complaint that their careers are too long? i mean, aren't they current artists if they're currently releasing new material?
posted by nadawi at 11:38 AM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Does anyone recommend busdriver? Busdriver is awesome.
posted by drezdn at 11:40 AM on November 5, 2010


I'm not qualified to speak on the topic of hip-hop with anything resembling credibility, but damned if I do not find that k-os tune "Natalie Portman" to be fine. Sage Francis and P.O.S. sound pretty good to my ears, as well.
posted by adipocere at 12:03 PM on November 5, 2010


alt gothic circus country and blues???
Johnny Cash - I See A Darkness, he is goth. alt.gothic held a referendum back in the late 80's.

The Dresden Dolls - Coin Operated Boy for the circus.
posted by zengargoyle at 12:16 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


I've been a hip-hop fan since the Sugar Hill Gang, and the only new group I've liked since about 1992 is Blue Scholars. (But then, I don't listen to much new stuff anymore...)
posted by coolguymichael at 12:21 PM on November 5, 2010


Pandora's built in "genre stations" Underground Hip Hop and Classic Hip Hop are both a lot of fun.
posted by Perplexity at 12:21 PM on November 5, 2010


alt gothic circus country and blues???

Yeah.
posted by nomadicink at 12:23 PM on November 5, 2010


"I've read every single comic/graphic novel thread in the hopes of learning something and the same thing happens, some people tailor and some people rec Bone and a shortlist of others because they love it."

HAVE YOU READ SANDMAN?!?!
posted by klangklangston at 12:29 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


This is the best thing right now. I'm pretty sure.
posted by fuq at 12:33 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


HAVE YOU READ SANDMAN?!?!

Jar of Fools and Why I Hate Saturn are rarely mentioned, but quite good.
posted by nomadicink at 12:41 PM on November 5, 2010


White people like those groups/performers. Throw on De La Soul and Tribe Called Quest and it's a wrap.
posted by milarepa at 12:43 PM on November 5, 2010


End Of Play 2010: A Hip-Hop State Of The Art Report with YouTubes!
posted by clockwork at 12:55 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


"How rigorous is the course of study required to receive one's Master's of Ceremony?"

Since I'm still on cold medicine and have since added pain meds, I read that as "Masters of Connery," to which I say: SUCK IT, TREBEK.

*is the man now, dog*
posted by Eideteker at 12:58 PM on November 5, 2010


Are you saying that Robert Jordan isn't high quality or isn't SF? I'll give you one of those.

Yeah, quod erat demonstrandum and so forth.
posted by Justinian at 1:01 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


something something Ke$ha something
posted by fuq at 1:06 PM on November 5, 2010


White people like those groups/performers. Throw on De La Soul and Tribe Called Quest and it's a wrap.

I was going through some boxes awhile bak and came across my old 3rd Bass cassettes, and was so! excited! because I totally loved them in college and haven't listened to them in years. And then I looked around helplessly and realized I haven't had a cassette player since the waning days of the Clinton administration. Thus they remain unplayed.
posted by scody at 1:08 PM on November 5, 2010



"I've read every single comic/graphic novel thread in the hopes of learning something and the same thing happens, some people tailor and some people rec Bone and a shortlist of others because they love it."

HAVE YOU READ SANDMAN?!?!


But on the other hand I finally purchased and read Bone because of the mefi chorus. AND IT CHANGED MY LIFE. In a good way.

and suddenly I crave quiche.

posted by edbles at 1:11 PM on November 5, 2010


I just feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to turn to Ask Metafilter for hip-hop help.

"Well, I've asked around at the country club, and I've rung both my nannas. I guess Ask Metafilter's the last resort..."
posted by Very Nice Person at 1:17 PM on November 5, 2010 [26 favorites]


I just feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to turn to Ask Metafilter for hip-hop help.

That's not a very nice attitude.
posted by nomadicink at 1:22 PM on November 5, 2010 [6 favorites]


It's because all of these questions ask for recommendations on the same thing: intelligent/conscious rap light on the violence and misogyny. If the question was recommend east coast gangsta rap (or crunk, or hyphy, or glitch, or southern rap, or whatever) the answers would be different. But I would certainly be keen to know the "modern" equivalents of the artists listed. I think all the usual suspects are mentioned because they're still relevant--hell, even Erick Sermon is still putting albums out.
posted by Lorin at 1:24 PM on November 5, 2010


"Well, I've asked around at the country club, and I've rung both my nannas. I guess Ask Metafilter's the last resort..."

WTF, we have a Country Club?!

Oh no. I'm being excluded! This is because I've never been to a meetup, isn't it?
posted by zarq at 1:26 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


and suddenly I crave quiche.
posted by edbles


Eponyst–

*reads username more carefully*

Oh, wait. Forget it.
posted by slogger at 1:26 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's because all of these questions ask for recommendations on the same thing: intelligent/conscious rap light on the violence and misogyny.

haven't there been a couple of questions that asked for recommendations of hardcore rap. Could have sworn there's been one or two...
posted by nomadicink at 1:32 PM on November 5, 2010


I'm sure there have. I meant the questions linked in this post.
posted by Lorin at 1:40 PM on November 5, 2010


"Jar of Fools and Why I Hate Saturn are rarely mentioned, but quite good."

Never read Why I Hate Saturn, but loved Baker's take on Plastic Man (or Elastic Man — I always get them confused, and don't have it handy). And Jar of Fools is pretty great — I had a class taught by Scott McCloud, and he used it over and over again as an example — but Berlin sucked boring ass.
posted by klangklangston at 1:43 PM on November 5, 2010


C'mon, everybody...let's all calm down with some MC Scat Kat.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:47 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Zarq- Of course we have a club. Where do you think we were keeping all those ponies?
posted by miss-lapin at 1:47 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


But... ain't nobody mentioned MF DOOM, or JayDilla, or MadLib.

MF DOOM + MadLib = Madvilliany
Madlib + imaginary friend = Quasimoto
Madlib + JayDilla = JayLib

But I'm no expert...
posted by functionequalsform at 1:54 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


AskMe threads are guided by the OP's needs, but they're also archives of information for any future traffic. Also, I can't be the only one that loves huge lists of unfamiliar album titles, obscure or otherwise!
posted by yaymukund at 2:00 PM on November 5, 2010


What, no Devasting Dave love?! Fucking poseurs.
posted by nomadicink at 2:01 PM on November 5, 2010


We suck. What can one say?
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:04 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


Zarq- Of course we have a club. Where do you think we were keeping all those ponies?

Dammit, where's my Cabal representative?!
posted by zarq at 2:08 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


Ask is a great resource sometimes, but it's also a great echo chamber. Which is fine for general questions in any category, but this often leads to a deficiency in diversity that I think everybody would love to see. Well almost everybody, which I think is a wierd subset of people here. But when it's a specific question than either, the same people come in with their rote answers to shine the light of knowledge on the noobs, or other people who have seen the same answers over and over (sometimes solely suggested by one person) come in to offer that "hey, this book/music/product is always suggested and i finally checked it out and it's great! You should check it out!"
echo<>echo<>echo
The thing is, is that: Ender's Game is a good book, Aesop Rock puts out good music, Bone is a great comic. So it's not that I think anyone is complaining specifically about these things but about the fact there isn't more suggestions.

I don't know. I've said it before and I wholly believe that if you only have one suggestion to give (over and over) than you really lack critical thinking of that subject. I'm not saying people shouldn't give suggestions because they lack knowledge in it, but i think some people certainly could take a step back from inundating everyone with their favorite "thing".
posted by P.o.B. at 2:09 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


All Hip Hop is the same.
posted by Biru at 2:17 PM on November 5, 2010


Are meta's hip hop listeners stuck in the early 2000s? That is all

Hate the game, not the players.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:18 PM on November 5, 2010


Did it occur to anybody else that there aren't a greater range of hip hop recommendations because there's only a narrow band of hip hop that's worth listening to in the first place? It's not much more than an easy way for individuals of limited talent to make themselves sound like they have something going on (I'm looking at you, Kanye West)... Most of the time, they're quite mistaken.
posted by OneMonkeysUncle at 2:18 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


No love for Bone Thugs-n-Harmony? No?

Me either.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:19 PM on November 5, 2010


I just feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to turn to Ask Metafilter for hip-hop help.

Some people just won't settle for the succubus William Safire.
posted by y2karl at 2:21 PM on November 5, 2010


The hip-hop recommendations on a website dominated by younger, white, liberal, self-styled "culturally aware" types reads like a series of blog posts from Stuff White People Like and you're surprised?
posted by schroedinger at 2:23 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


It's not much more than an easy way for individuals of limited talent to make themselves sound like they have something going on (I'm looking at you, Kanye West)... Most of the time, they're quite mistaken.

IT BEGINS
posted by Think_Long at 2:23 PM on November 5, 2010 [4 favorites]



I don't know. I've said it before and I wholly believe that if you only have one suggestion to give (over and over) than you really lack critical thinking of that subject.


I don't know about that. I think the greater the breadth and depth of your exposure to a field the more solidified in their positions your top choices of thing x are going to be. If you've never heard great, but older, albums x, y & z, you can go and listen to them and they could displace whatever you previously had as your top 5 great albums. But if you've heard every great album already released, it's going to take something really special to come along and steal a spot on that list.
posted by juv3nal at 2:25 PM on November 5, 2010


WTF, we have a Country Club?!

Oh no. I'm being excluded! This is because I've never been to a meetup, isn't it?


I think you've misinterpreted. It wasn't a reference to exclusivity.

A country club is a place where dreary middle-aged white people meet and talk about dreary white middle-aged people's things. It is in this respect that a country club resembles Metafilter. And it is this which makes both places poor hunting grounds for new information on hip-hop.

If I intended a reference to some kind of exclusivity, how would grandmothers be involved? Or - is Grandmama Zarq being standoffish with you again? I'm sure she'll come round eventually. Just treat her nicer - give her a foot massage, take her to dinner and a show (nothing hip-hop, of course).
posted by Very Nice Person at 2:28 PM on November 5, 2010


I'm not saying people shouldn't give suggestions because they lack knowledge in it, but i think some people certainly could take a step back from inundating everyone with their favorite "thing".

Does this even make sense? How you can inundate everyone if you're being asked to suggest favorites?
posted by nomadicink at 2:28 PM on November 5, 2010


I mean, for Chrissake, this is a website where someone bought a Lil Wayne CD after Pitchfork and Rolling Stone told them to do so, posted a question because they "didn't get it," and most of the answers were along the lines of "I don't either so I'm going to answer this in the way that makes me feel the most smug (and better than hipsters because I am so totally not one)."
posted by schroedinger at 2:32 PM on November 5, 2010


The hip-hop recommendations on a website dominated by younger, white, liberal, self-styled "culturally aware" types reads like a series of blog posts from Stuff White People Like and you're surprised?

Those are some good music recommendations that you're just dismissing outright. That's a pretty shitty thing to do.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:32 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Did it occur to anybody else that there aren't a greater range of hip hop recommendations because there's only a narrow band of hip hop that's worth listening to in the first place? It's not much more than an easy way for individuals of limited talent to make themselves sound like they have something going on (I'm looking at you, Kanye West)... Most of the time, they're quite mistaken.

Would you mind terribly also pointing out that hip-hop artists are so lame that they can't even write their own music? I've just got this bingo card here, see.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 2:34 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


but Berlin sucked boring ass

This.
posted by edbles at 2:35 PM on November 5, 2010


The hip-hop recommendations on a website dominated by younger, white, liberal, self-styled "culturally aware" types reads like a series of blog posts from Stuff White People Like and you're surprised?

Let me guess: You're a white guy who is better than self-aware white guys because you are self-aware of being a white guy.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:37 PM on November 5, 2010 [8 favorites]


most of the answers were along the lines of "I don't either so I'm going to answer this in the way that makes me feel the most smug (and better than hipsters because I am so totally not one)."

I've found that being a hipster is like being a LUG: only other people can be one.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 2:39 PM on November 5, 2010


I'm not saying people shouldn't give suggestions because they lack knowledge in it, but i think some people certainly could take a step back from inundating everyone with their favorite "thing".

Nothing will stop me from spreading the word, and filling others with the pure light of SHADOW OF THE COLUSSUS.

researches good subway spots for tract handing out. wonders about possible territory beefs with the Halo proselytizers on the 4 train. abandons idea due to lack of ranged weaponry.
posted by edbles at 2:40 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Did it occur to anybody else that there aren't a greater range of hip hop recommendations because there's only a narrow band of hip hop that's worth listening to in the first place?

Horseshit.

I think the greater the breadth and depth of your exposure to a field the more solidified in their positions your top choices of thing x are going to be.

Well than you're giving your favorite thing, and not particularly trying to give good answers to the question. Again, for general questions that could be fine, but if people are asking more specific questions than you are outright failing by not specifically answering but rather trying to wedge in your favorite answer.
I've seen people here who obviously have a large amount of knowledge on a subject and I don't see them giving the same answers over and over?

Does this even make sense? How you can inundate everyone if you're being asked to suggest favorites?

Favorites?

Why just favorites? Does favorites = the only good books or music or whatevs available?

Do you know what inundate means?
posted by P.o.B. at 2:42 PM on November 5, 2010


Let me guess: You're a white guy who is better than self-aware white guys because you are self-aware of being a white guy.

HOW DID YOU KNOW?

Except I am also self-aware that being self-aware of being an "aware" white guy (well, girl) doesn't make me any better than any other "aware" white guys, so instead I settle for listening to "Right Above It" over and over on the radio and desperately wishing I was cool. How's that for meta?
posted by schroedinger at 2:43 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


(It's Young Money motherfucker, if you ain't running with it run from it, motherfucker)
posted by schroedinger at 2:45 PM on November 5, 2010


I think you've misinterpreted. It wasn't a reference to exclusivity.

I got your point. I was making a small joke to lighten the mood.

But hey, way to go with your 'dreary, middle-aged white people' race-based joke there. As someone who is both white and in his 30's, perhaps one day I'll be both dreary and middle-aged and will fit your lazy stereotype of the typical AskMe user.

Or - is Grandmama Zarq being standoffish with you again?

Well, considering that both "Grandmama Zarqs" have been dead and buried for a number of years now, um... yes. I suppose you could say that.
posted by zarq at 2:48 PM on November 5, 2010



Do you know what inundate means?

You seem angry. Would you like suggestions for music to relax you?
posted by nomadicink at 2:54 PM on November 5, 2010


You seem angry. Would you like suggestions for music to relax you?

Oooh ooh. THE GREY'S ANATOMY SOUNDTRACK.

Eat Pray Love the audio book!!!!
posted by edbles at 3:00 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


You seem angry.

And you seem to keep misunderstanding what I'm saying.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:01 PM on November 5, 2010


Or is that intentional?
posted by P.o.B. at 3:02 PM on November 5, 2010


I would like suggestions for big-band jazz with outer-space themes.
posted by box at 3:04 PM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


Well, considering that both "Grandmama Zarqs" have been dead and buried for a number of years now, um... yes. I suppose you could say that.

Gosh. I've heard of playing hard to get, but that's fucking hardcore.

Maybe those audacious old gals would be a good source of hip-hop recommendations after all. Anybody got a ouija board? I want to tune in to the underground hip hop scene.
posted by Very Nice Person at 3:05 PM on November 5, 2010


Totally second the question. Even for old-school recommendations, we could go much deeper. For instance, this classic seems totally forgotten.
posted by salvia at 3:05 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


"Let me guess: You're a white guy who is better than self-aware white guys because you are self-aware of being a white guy."

And self-aware of being a self-aware white guy!

I also had two totally awesome classes on hip-hop and African American culture (which were essentially the same class, since they were taught by the same professor), which means that I can yell "Checkmate, crown me king!" like my man Wyclef or Elzhi with NO IRONY AT ALL!
posted by klangklangston at 3:10 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh geez. What the hell's going on in here?
posted by koeselitz at 3:12 PM on November 5, 2010


Well than you're giving your favorite thing, and not particularly trying to give good answers to the question.

Well if the question is "recommend me some x", it's absolutely "trying to give a good answer to the question" to recommend your favorite x. If x differs from question to question ("conscious hip hop" versus "hardcore rap" etc.), then sure, answers should be different. I think the reason we see so much repetition, though, is that the questions often aren't that different.
posted by juv3nal at 3:20 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's self-aware white guys all the way down.
posted by box at 3:38 PM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


I couldn't remember the name of the hiphop band that I used to lovelovelove, but then I jut Googled "vanglorious" and there they were: X-Clan! Have you guys listened to them? They are really good.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:49 PM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


I can't believe MeFi isn't all over these guys like gaga on rice, but: download that new-ish Das Racist mixtape, stat.
posted by naju at 3:59 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


Oh the hip hops! I hear Will Smith is very good. He's on this wonderful show Fresh Prince. I'll send you my cassette tape.
posted by anniecat at 4:01 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]



I would like suggestions for big-band jazz with outer-space themes.


Beep, Beep by Louis Prima
posted by drezdn at 4:24 PM on November 5, 2010 [3 favorites]


But on the other hand I finally purchased and read Bone because of the mefi chorus. AND IT CHANGED MY LIFE. In a good way.

Yeah. It wasn't a complaint, it gave a pretty quick list of core canon and it worked for when I wanted more specific things.

Re: the middle aged white guy jab - presumably people know the user base on askme and would like to ask them their opinion. If I want a teenagers opinion I'll ask my nephew what the kids are listening to, if I want a hardcore modern rap forum's opinion I'll google one but that's not going to give me a particularly easy in to the subject. My nephew sends me what he thinks are incredible donk and bounce links but they were far too dense until I heard some more mainstream stuff, fans often can't tell what's listenable to for outsiders with no previous knowledge.
posted by shinybaum at 4:33 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


Take it from me, folks: Parents just don't understand.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:35 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


I really enjoy the suggestion that most rap isn't a manufactured commodity aimed squarely at white 20-somethings. Oh noes, we're all afraid of Rap that's too street.

Providing that street means whatever negative African American stereotypes the record execs think will sell to the white kids, sure.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:40 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


This site suffers from a severe lack of doomtree.

That is all.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:02 PM on November 5, 2010


I really don't see what the problem is here, if the answers answer the question, who cares how diverse/same they are?
posted by smoke at 5:07 PM on November 5, 2010


I really enjoy the suggestion that most rap isn't a manufactured commodity aimed squarely at white 20-somethings. Oh noes, we're all afraid of Rap that's too street.

Eh, I certainly wasn't talking about mainstream top 40 commodity-rap when I used the word "street." I know there's exceptions, but the real hood shit doesn't really emphasize pop and catchy choruses, and isn't really in the public spotlight at all. And when's the last time Drake or Kanye rapped about selling drugs or killing people, anyway?

Something like this is probably too weird/young/dangerous/nihilistic/uneducated/bigoted/[whatever] for most people looking for collegiate, "socially conscious" (such a loaded term) hip-hop. They want Mos Def. Internet middle-class folk [consciously avoiding the lazy "white people" epithet], by and large, want hip-hop that safely reaffirms their values and mindset without pushing too many buttons. That's not a judgment, it's not meant to be positive or negative; it's just observable fact.
posted by naju at 5:08 PM on November 5, 2010 [5 favorites]


I don't think that's observable fact, I think it's opinion. It may be well-supported opinion. It may actually be true. But it's not a fact, it is your interpretation of facts.
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


OK, agreed. Bad rhetorical flourish.
posted by naju at 5:20 PM on November 5, 2010


Shh, naju, if people on MeFi start downloadin' Das Racist mixtapes, they won't be all like, "Klang, where do you hear this amazing music?" anymore.
posted by klangklangston at 5:24 PM on November 5, 2010


I think the reason we see so much repetition, though, is that the questions often aren't that different.

Well, I am speaking about overall answers on Ask besides just rap questions. I think it's a good idea to try to narrow down what a person wants or what they are looking for rather than jump into every related question and throw out something like "Jay-Z!". That's not to say it wouldn't be helpful, just that overall it decreases the helpfulness of Ask.

I really don't see what the problem is here, if the answers answer the question, who cares how diverse/same they are?

Then why use Ask? We should just direct people to the top rated on Amazon.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:58 PM on November 5, 2010


Yeah...

I have a response to this.
posted by frecklefaerie at 7:00 PM on November 5, 2010


Welcome to...uhhh...ummm....angloville; where the women are strong and white, the men are good looking and white, and only a pre-approved set of music is allowed.
posted by hal_c_on at 7:23 PM on November 5, 2010


I would like suggestions for big-band jazz with outer-space themes.

Esquivel.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:46 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


spoonie gee, bitches
posted by elizardbits at 7:54 PM on November 5, 2010


And when's the last time Drake or Kanye rapped about selling drugs or killing people, anyway?

See, that isn't street. It's not authentic. It's power fantasy bullshit. Most of the people on the streets live on the wrong end of those guns - it's glorifying power and death, not talking about real life.

probably too weird/young/dangerous/nihilistic/uneducated/bigoted/[whatever] for most people looking for collegiate, "socially conscious" (such a loaded term) hip-hop.

Oh! Oh! My monocle just popped out and landed in my mueslix!

Umm... ritalin, cough syrup, malt liquor and some nasty looking weed, tossed in a blender, and then a few minutes pretending to be high and messing around with fake blood, is street? Or typical teenagers screwing around? The guy looks and sounds like he's 15. Otherwise... kinda typical. Teenager violence and sex power fantasy that doesn't really talk about anything, has a middle-of-the-road flow, some nice rhymes, and a wooden delivery. (I did like the beat, tho - thick and heavy.)

It all sounds like the ol' "appeal to authority" logical falsehood, you ask me.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:27 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


There's a Roc Raida mixtape (I Got Records, Too!, I think, but I might be misremembering) with a soundbite from Steve Def or Grand Wizard Theodore or somebody talking about how deejaying is the only part of the culture that has consistently kept developing and improving and advancing over the years.

But I don't think that's true--I mean, beatbox ensembles? LED throw-ups? Have you seen what high-level breakdancing looks like lately? And don't even get me started about beatmaking/producing/whatnot.

The kernel of truth in it, though, is that emceeing just hasn't kept up. The difference in skill levels between old- and new-school rappers like e.g. Big Daddy Kane in his prime and Jay-Z in his prime isn't that big, especially compared to the difference between, say, DJ Cash Money and DJ Craze.

(Also: big-band outer-space jazz fans might also enjoy William Parker's Double Sunrise Over Neptune and the work of the Exploding Star Orchestra.)
posted by box at 8:57 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


I recommended some Nicki Minaj in a thread the other day. So yay me!
posted by delmoi at 10:10 PM on November 5, 2010


Is that some sort of euphamism? I can't keep up with the kids and their slang anymore.
posted by carsonb at 10:44 PM on November 5, 2010


Well, I looked at the hiphop tag for askMe's and in my opinion the 6 examples chosen here are cherry-picked for confirmation bias.

I skimmed the questions in question and there's a buttload of stuff to explore beyond the five groups sited.

This documentary might explain why many pre-2000s artists are still go-to's for the specifics requested: the tl;dw is that after the initial wide-open explosion of creative expression, corporate forces swooped in and skewed the genre to their perceived parameters of marketability.

I skimmed the op's posting history and, not finding evidence of someone who actively contributes to spreading a wealth of knowledge regarding what kind of new hiphop we could be listening to within the parameters of those or any hiphop questions, I can only conclude that we will soon be treated to an askMe eliciting such gems or that you know ...

I looked at myself found i was not a "younger, white, liberal, self-styled 'culturally aware' type." I am increasingly disturbed everytime I this posted on meFi like it is fact or a valid arguement. I thought the whole purpose of wandering around the eyes-wide-shut party under a pseudonym was that we could interact on the basis of our words, intellects, and google-fu without the burden of stereotypes based on appearance, sex, race or culture. maybe i am just miffed that i was not extended an invite to the country-club where i could see that, indeed, the other eleventy-billion members and lurkers are young white liberals.

**steam puffs from ears. wanders off to listen to big-band outer space jazz.**

posted by Rube R. Nekker at 10:51 PM on November 5, 2010 [2 favorites]


I was going to make a crack that MetaFilter possibly moonlights as Minnesota Public Radio's Hip Hop Programming Director, but that vein has already been mined. BUT THEN I WENT AND DID IT ANYWAY!

Comic recommendations: Whatever the hell Stan Lee has in his garage. Holy shit, this could be BIG.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:59 PM on November 5, 2010


Here, I have made a thread of Asian/Pacific Islander American hiphop artists. They range from backpacker to LA gangster and you'll find goodness therein.
posted by yeloson at 11:02 PM on November 5, 2010 [1 favorite]


All the best rap is French.
posted by Artw at 11:11 PM on November 5, 2010


And when's the last time Drake or Kanye rapped about selling drugs or killing people, anyway?

See, that isn't street. It's not authentic.


What? Well, it's authentic in that selling drugs and gang murders are things that actually happen and they're common enough. But when I wrote that sentence, it was referring to the "negative African-American stereotypes" thing you said. I wasn't very clear.

and then a few minutes pretending to be high and messing around with fake blood, is street? Or typical teenagers screwing around? ... Teenager violence and sex power fantasy that doesn't really talk about anything, has a middle-of-the-road flow, some nice rhymes, and a wooden delivery.

Except none of this discussion is about whether you personally would like it / be offended by it / find it "street" / find it up to par with expectations, it's about whether most of MetaFilter / the internet would, right? Even if you or I find it comparatively tame.
posted by naju at 11:18 PM on November 5, 2010


(Sorry if that doesn't make perfect sense, I'm not quite sober)
posted by naju at 11:23 PM on November 5, 2010


dreary middle-aged white people meet and talk about dreary white middle-aged people's things.

[not racist]
[not ageist]


Heaven forfend any of the most hostile whiners, you know, post anything useful. Or are the mods supposed to come beg you for you infinite wisdom and delete anything you think doesn't measure up?
posted by rodgerd at 12:38 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


All the best rap is French.

There's some alright Australian hiphop around, too. For a long while it made me cringe, thinking "Jebus, if you're going to ape an American style, you might as well not drawl in thick aussie accents" until I realised that this was exactly the point: American hiphop is basically a hyperreal simulacrum of whiteboys' ghetto fantasies.

In contrast we have much less of that kind of pretension, and instead the artists tend towards more left-liberal political rap, or else just observations about regular peoples' lives, that doesn't feature drivebys or hos any of that bollocks that doesn't actually relate to anybody's reality outside of Detroit or some similar shithole where nobody lives anyway for obvious reasons.

Some acts that spring to mind include The Herd, Ozi Batla, Hilltop Hoods and Bliss N Eso. Kombat Wombat probably count as hiphop as well.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:10 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


All Hip Hop is the same.

except for cLOUDDEAD
posted by philip-random at 2:49 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


yeah, there's not nearly enough rap about rattlesnakes caught under a wheel arch, strawberries in an ostrich throat, or people aborting full-sized goats.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:02 AM on November 6, 2010


Hip hop is a really dumb name.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:13 AM on November 6, 2010


heh.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:30 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


Look, the demographic here is late-20s white nerds.

How true is that? Do we really know? Genuinely curious here. I've heard people make a variety of pronouncements about what the demographic of Metafilter is, and they don't all match, so they can't all be right. :)
posted by bardophile at 5:52 AM on November 6, 2010


"Dreary White Boy" is Foreigner's new comeback single, I've heard.
posted by jonmc at 6:54 AM on November 6, 2010


Look, the demographic here is late-20s white nerds.

How true is that? Do we really know?


Based on the number of late-20s white nerd-centric things posted to the front page, I'd say this was a good assumption, unless they are a very vocal minority. Personally, I'd say its more in the early 20s to mid 30s demo, though.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:40 AM on November 6, 2010


All the best rap is French.

Not anymore, no. Now it's Brazilian.
posted by micayetoca at 8:10 AM on November 6, 2010


I know and like Ender's Game. It was the books that came after that I deny.

Next hip hop thread I am recommending Kris Kross.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:17 AM on November 6, 2010


Note to self: henceforth, in every "recommend some music" thread, always reply with "SLAYER".
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:32 AM on November 6, 2010


I have to echo mathowie's sentiment about Black Milk (although he's originally from Slum Village which falls into the late 90's early 00's range).

I don't think the poster asked for recommendations (and I don't care to comment on MeFi's supposed demographic) but I'm going to provide it anyway. I generally find my hiphop from two sources. BB is a good streaming mix and I use SA as a starting point to familiarize myself with acts and research from there.
posted by redsnare at 10:40 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


Next hip hop thread I am recommending Kris Kross.

One of Jermaine Dupri's original acts. If someone were to graph how and why some rap is completely pointless to listen to, there would be at least one big fat arrow that pointed right at JD.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:00 AM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


Here, I have made a thread of Asian/Pacific Islander American hiphop artists.

Huh. Since everyone is so into Blue Scholars these days, a group that clearly defines themselves as a Seattle hip-hop group, I was going to suggest my friends' group All Flags Burn
But be aware people, they're *gasp* white.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:56 AM on November 6, 2010


"I would have picked Sloan or Tragically Hip."

I know, and yet no one's ever like, Eric's Trip put out consistently some of the best Canadian pop music of the '90s, or Hey, how about Flashing Lights, or The Gandharvas were over-rated, but that one song they had can still work on mixtapes, or even, My brother had an Econoline Crush tape that he said was good but I don't remember it very well.

There's a whole other world of Canadian alterna-pop from the College Radio era!
posted by klangklangston at 12:24 PM on November 6, 2010


naju: Something like this is probably too weird/young/dangerous/nihilistic/uneducated/bigoted/[whatever] for most people looking for collegiate, "socially conscious" (such a loaded term) hip-hop.

Jesus, I feel like I just watched Kids again for the first time. Thanks.
posted by Doofus Magoo at 2:38 PM on November 6, 2010


What's brown and looks like a stick?
posted by benzenedream at 4:46 PM on November 6, 2010


A stick covered in a melted Hershey bar.
posted by theichibun at 5:58 PM on November 6, 2010


There's a whole other world of Canadian alterna-pop from the College Radio era!

Sons of Freedom are the greatest Canadian band ever to put out one really good album in the late '80s and then apparently disappear into obscurity and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
posted by The World Famous at 8:04 PM on November 6, 2010


All the best rap is French.

Fool, check yourself before you wreck yourself! The best rap is Brittany French Celtic rap. As filmed on location in Australia. In a Cadillac.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:31 PM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


Except none of this discussion is about whether you personally would like it / be offended by it / find it "street" / find it up to par with expectations, it's about whether most of MetaFilter / the internet would, right? Even if you or I find it comparatively tame.

Except that I find Blackalicious and Saul Williams and The Herbalizer and Deltron 3030 and MIA to be anything, any-fucking-thing but tame.

It's easy to set a bomb off in your ear. It's a hell of a lot harder to go straight into the brain for direct detonation.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:42 PM on November 6, 2010


Sons of Freedom are the greatest Canadian band ever to put out one really good album in the late '80s and then apparently disappear into obscurity and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

Fuck The System
posted by philip-random at 9:06 PM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


There are about five users who I would trust for really good recommendations of hip hop, and most of them are still going to drop the Hip Hop 101 stuff without being prompted to look past the broad consensus. This is especially true because there's a consistent push-back on MeFi proper from herbs who still want to grouse about hippity-hop being just people yelling about bitches and bling over samples of music they didn't write. Without touching on the established classics, there's a feeling that you can just get way too obscure and weird really fast, and then whomever asked won't even listen to your recommendations.

List your weird, regional recommendations then. I promise to listen to all of them.
posted by ersatz at 9:17 PM on November 6, 2010 [2 favorites]


Hi; I* am from the future where Weezer and Lil wayne have pupated, and merged** as one incredible chameleon-butterfly-praying mantrix of uniqueness, overlaid upon high definition nature footage with lizards and things... it is pretty glorious. I like to glorify it. -"I am a mess, hold me".
I present for yur consideration; Mole Star/Weezyr, Weezy with (avec, pour artw) Weezer.

It's like... one thing, but then another thing comes into it, like if the two things were cars, driving concurrently along a roadway at approximately coordinating speeds, and they intersected perpendicularly at a point in space, they would, at their fronts, have a part that is dented, and actually fits together with the other vehicle... What is this called?
Mashed up potatoes and gravy?

The reason the answers are by design following a set of 'clines' is not because we all have group think, it is because
a)it is hard to submit for consideration something that you like, but know that 75% of the people reading simply will not, cannot like... possibly before they have listened to it, and likely absent of context (will one want to read about someone if they listen to a few songs and dislike them, this isn't a criticism of anyone in particular just some hypothesizing on the similarity [I kinda disagree with this premise] of recommendations.) or considering what the person on a recording was thinking, or what led someone to say some set of words. Also, small scale music can be pretty (read very) niche, if you don't get the injokes or references things that are facetious or jocular can come across as aggressive or passive, rather than some platonic ideal of a desired network progressive.

b)Oppression retraction distraction alive-robot interaction, war-fighters available for contraction, shorten that sentence, no time for contradiction. This is an epithet based on yur diction. Caretakers of legends, partaking in journeys- life's indistinct interactions lost in th' haze of this impartial palatial imperial phase, avoidance resumption, abundantly heaped praise.

You think you’re going home but there's no province to go back to. You thought you had it all figured out but now our last best hope's on the wrong track too. No matter what you think you can or u can’t do.
This weak physique leaves the landscape bleak. Retreat. Find and ye shall seek. Do what u do cus ure voice is a treat. Look at all the hate thinking yr' makin' a threat. Sew up the suture with a thread. Comments in the thread. Back up buck up or bow down. I'm not planning on coming around. I'd rather leave town. My mind wanders yea I guess you could say it mostly just leaps around. Frogs are fun but my time is none, the pot’s boiling over and I'm repeating my unlearned lesson without the luck of a clover-run out of time the same way that they say the sky could never run out of sun. 32 words written half awake. Less soul left in the heart than any thief could take. Step on a rake, hit the brakes. No more mistakes; you see this feelin', it kicks in, keep kickin' addiction, re-write your life like a story in nonfiction. Tragedy is my prediction.
Time can make your faith falter when you hold your strongest wishes up on the alter. Fire in the places. smiles on yer faces. fickle flickering. Soldiers out pace us. So many ridiculous racists. It's tough to know what will put each of us on opposite sides of some fences. In real life there's no battle lines and no trenches. Just words on top of words, layered on their combinatorial interaction. When the world ended we never woke up. We were still holding our breath hoping this wasn't the last. Wishin' Hoping, I was wishing and hoping, we weren't still just stuck in that past.

(*not me, **they merge at the point where they are both kinda crazy)

er, anyway all I mean to say is thanks to people who create and make music and share it with people, i know many things inspire many people to create various things.

"I promise to listen to all of them."- just one, but maybe of interest,
Slick Corea, Children of the Idiom, which has a cool story behind the album
posted by infinite intimation at 10:39 PM on November 6, 2010 [1 favorite]


Thanks, redsnare, for that link to BeatBasement. Wish there were setlists.
posted by mediareport at 6:04 AM on November 7, 2010


I'm pretty sure there's a revolving, self-purging list (i.e. the last twenty songs or so) somewhere. I'll try to hunt it down when I'm at home.
posted by redsnare at 7:38 AM on November 7, 2010


People please, let us not concentrate on the issues that divide us! We can all come together behind the fact that Wyclef is terrible.
posted by electroboy at 11:20 AM on November 7, 2010


Found it, mediareport. Happy hunting.
posted by redsnare at 4:31 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Sons of Freedom are the greatest Canadian band ever to put out one really good album in the late '80s and then apparently disappear into obscurity and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

We're gonna hafta fight then, sadly, because I would put Slow's Against The Glass at the apex of that little-known pyramid.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:59 PM on November 7, 2010


Although the guys from Slow did end up in Copyright and The Scramblers, which were equally obscure (and pretty great too), but they did carry on, at least.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:01 PM on November 7, 2010


We're gonna hafta fight then, sadly, because I would put Slow's Against The Glass at the apex of that little-known pyramid.

Against the Grass was technically an EP, so you're both right. And yes, I am impressed that a thread about unimaginative hip-hop recommendations has become far more concerned with obscure Vancouver based RAWK bands of the 1980s. Speaking of which, Slow invented grunge (unintentionally). Hard drinking (and drugging) privileged teens from the west side with an equal love of the Sex Pistols and Aerosmith could accomplish no less.
posted by philip-random at 7:16 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


stavrosthewonderchicken, I think we should probably go out for drinks or something so we can reminisce about the awesomeness of late-80s Canadian rock, rather than fighting. I had completely forgotten about Slow.
posted by The World Famous at 7:28 PM on November 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


I couldn't remember the name of the hiphop band that I used to lovelovelove, but then I jut Googled "vanglorious" and there they were: X-Clan! Have you guys listened to them? They are really good.

Oh man, I remember X-Clan. They were into some crazy-ass Five Percenter shit. Fun stuff though.
posted by electroboy at 7:44 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Rochester, AKA Juice,
Everything.
Listen to the words Faze.
posted by infinite intimation at 7:50 PM on November 7, 2010


It's a new day.
posted by infinite intimation at 7:53 PM on November 7, 2010


Invisible Struggle
posted by holloway at 8:08 PM on November 7, 2010


I had completely forgotten about Slow.

Slow - Against the Glass
posted by philip-random at 8:56 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


just one, but maybe of interest,
Slick Corea, Children of the Idiom, which has a cool story behind the album


It was interesting, thanks.
posted by ersatz at 8:52 AM on November 8, 2010


Now taking bets. Will Ender's Game end up being mentioned in this thread?
posted by salvia at 4:50 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mongolia’s Release Valve
posted by adamvasco at 12:36 AM on November 15, 2010


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