You got sports in my MetaFilter!

November 13, 2010 4:42 AM

Four months after this, we get threadshitting from the get-go in another sports thread..

If you're not interested in the thread, be it about sports, genetically engineered tap-dancing bananas or whatever, just move on. FIAMO if you feel it somehow isn't worthy of MetaFilter, but in the end just move on.

posted by squorch to Etiquette/Policy at 4:42 AM (148 comments total)

I'm offended by sports. Sports threads are an affront to those of us who are athletically challenged.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:02 AM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

*throws dodgeball at PeterMcDermott* That's for making fun of the Welsh!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:09 AM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I agree with you, squorch.
posted by amro at 5:15 AM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

And it's mainly shinybaum that needs to knock it off in the linked thread.
posted by amro at 5:16 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is endemic to what happens in real life with militant non-sports fans:

Me: "The Wildcats best prospect from Europe was ruled inelgible! Can you believe the hipocracy of the NCAA?"
Girl: "ALL HE DOES IT THROW A BALL THROUGH A DAMN HOOP WHY DO THESE KIDS GET TO GO TO SCHOOL FOR FREEEEEE WHEN REGULAR KIDS HAVE TO PAAAAAAY????!!"
Me: "Because people enjoy watching athletic feats that they themselves cannot perform and schools make millions of dollars off the kid's labor while providing a scanctioned venue?"
Girl: "ALL THEY DO IS THROW A BALL THROUGH A DAMN HOOP I HATE SOCIETY!"

Threadshitting in sports threads is just conversation shitting transposed to the internet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 AM on November 13, 2010 [10 favorites]

they may just throw a ball through a damn hoop but in doing so they provide entertainment to millions, which is more than one could say about CEOs on the same kinds of salaries.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:28 AM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

some people have the ability to feel a locker room wedgie for 20 years.
posted by TrialByMedia at 5:39 AM on November 13, 2010 [9 favorites]

and some people walk into threads with the hope of giving a locker room wedgie, regardless of the topic.
posted by msconduct at 5:47 AM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

we get threadshitting from the get-go in another sports thread..

It wasn't threadshitting, it was a legitimate question. The post was written by someone who knows about hockey for those who also know about hockey. Frankly, if one can't take the time to introduce others to the background history, particularly on a subject that often brings heated argument, even among its fans, then a person doesn't have room to complain.

If you're not interested in the thread, be it about sports...

Some people are extremely interested in sports threads, just not in the way you would like. That doesn't excuse threadshitting, but seriously, that was a poor post. If the first comments in the thread are "what's happening, what's going on here" that should be a clear indicator of poor writing.
posted by nomadicink at 5:53 AM on November 13, 2010 [8 favorites]

It's OK for people to feel differently than you do about sports.
posted by MrMoonPie at 6:02 AM on November 13, 2010

At one point during a game, the coach called one of his 7 year old hockey players aside and asked, "Do you understand what cooperation is? What a team is?" The little boy nodded in the affirmative.

"Do you understand that what matters is not whether we win or lose, but how we play together as a team?" The little boy nodded yes. So the coach continued, "I am sure you know, when a penalty is called, you should not argue, curse, attack the referee, or call him a pecker-head. Do you understand all that?" Again the little boy nodded.

He continued, "And when I call you off the ice so that another boy gets a chance to play, its not good sportsmanship to call your coach a dumb asshole, is it?" Again the little boy nodded.

"Good," said the coach. "Now go over there and explain all that to your mother."
posted by netbros at 6:02 AM on November 13, 2010 [78 favorites]

If the first comments in the thread are "what's happening, what's going on here" that should be a clear indicator of poor writing.

Really? I think it was very clear in the text what sort of thing happened, even if the specifics were were not written out. And I suspect people who say that they had no idea what was hapening either didn't watch the video or were getting their 'is this something you'd have to like sports to understand' on. And in my humble opinion, if you aren't going to watch the link, and the topic of the thread is something you actively don't care about, why not just stay the hell out of that thread completely?
posted by dirtdirt at 6:19 AM on November 13, 2010 [17 favorites]

That's a pretty tame and questionable example of threadshitting. I see an early response by someone that admits they're not a sports fan but was still interested enough to ask what exactly is going on. One of the great things about reading MetaFilter is stumbling upon something you're note very interested in originally, but thanks to the enthusiasm of other members, you get a new understanding and maybe even a new interest. Maybe there's a backstory I don't know about that makes the question disingenuous, but I don't see it here. The "i don't get sports." remark isn't really adding to the dynamic the original poster is probably hoping for, but it's hardly threadshitting. Especially for a FPP that's not about the majesty of the sport. It's more about the ridiculousness of high salaries for professional athletes and the lack of performance of one player in particular.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 6:24 AM on November 13, 2010 [13 favorites]

Really? I think it was very clear in the text what sort of thing happened, even if the specifics were were not written out.

Eh, probably should have put that above the fold. Make that part interesting so that people want to read it as opposed to having to read it.

and the topic of the thread is something you actively don't care about, why not just stay the hell out of that thread completely?

People care a lot about how much athletes are paid.
posted by nomadicink at 6:25 AM on November 13, 2010

It's OK for people to feel differently than you do about sports.

Yes, but it's NOT OK for them to enter a thread about sports just to insult sports and the people who like them.

I'm entirely apathetic on sports but Christ, some people in that thread are being such assholes.
posted by Rory Marinich at 6:28 AM on November 13, 2010 [7 favorites]

The "threadshitting" accusation made its appearance in that thread after 14 comments, perhaps two or three of which could be considered insufficiently respectful of the sanctity of the topic. (Not counting the simple requests for clarification.) I'd say that's about average for any MeFi thread. If it weren't, we'd be taking ourselves way too seriously.
posted by beagle at 6:31 AM on November 13, 2010

I removed the two most egregious comments. Carry on.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:36 AM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

What was wrong with the "What happened? how is irony formed?" comment?
posted by Gator at 6:43 AM on November 13, 2010

Wow, it's really snowing out there.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:43 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

People care a lot about how much athletes are paid.

Yeah, but people who don't where a puck goes should probably not be so quick to put their ignorance on display. The only reason I can think of that one would express pride in not knowing the basics of the topic is to imply those who actually know better are deficient in some way.
posted by Dano St at 6:44 AM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Who the hell gives a puck?
posted by gman at 6:46 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

The querying questions don't seem like threadshitting to me, but I do think it's worth asking "is this something that Google can answer for me," and, if so, start with that, rather than asking others in the thread to walk you through it.

But, then, some of these questions seem to be "Why is this such a big deal? Losing control of the puck one time doesn't necessarily mean the salary is wasted," and that seems like a reasonable question, and one that Google can't answer.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:49 AM on November 13, 2010

Every time there's a post about a book I'm going in there yelling about how books are just words someone else wrote and how dumb you all are for liking it and not thinking for yourselves. THAT'LL SHOW 'EM.
posted by BeerFilter at 6:55 AM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

I remember one time I lost control of my puck.
posted by Wolfdog at 6:56 AM on November 13, 2010

Making a sports thread that leads with the salary is like waving a red flag at a bull.
posted by smackfu at 7:00 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I removed the two most egregious comments.

Thanks, Matt. (That still sounds awkward to me, "thanks for deleting something", but I do sincerely appreciate the consistent mod action taken in this case.)

May I note for the record that they occurred after LSK's extant comment and before Orange Pamplemousse's (IIRC)? Besides their early appearance, they were also short and dismissive. Kinda classic threadshitting in my understanding of it.
posted by Dano St at 7:04 AM on November 13, 2010

It's OK for people to feel differently than you do about sports

This is how it starts, see? Next thing you know, we'll be saying that its OK for people to feel differently about politics or welfare policy or religion.
posted by Shohn at 7:13 AM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

"What happened? how is irony formed?" is pretty much the same exact question as LSK's, though. The FPP mentions irony, shinybaum was just asking what happened and how is this ironic.
posted by Gator at 7:13 AM on November 13, 2010

As a (originally full-time) classical musician with an only moderate interest in sports I am nevertheless in total awe at the sheer popularity of some sports, of the audiences they attract, the discussions they spawn, the sponsor money they generate, the research they inspire, the know-how about how humans learn and move they have helped to build, and go on like that.
Okay; music-versus sports is, form a Great Art- perspective, an apples-oranges confrontation. But it would be silly not to honor the values and benefits encompassed by sports. (commercialism has no place here, because it isn't inherent in sports - or music - while the benefits are.)

Now. I do agree with nomadicink that a sport-post on the blue that completely ignores the crowd of non-insiders isn't ideal and maybe should be re-phrased. But I don't think that a request to this effect needs to be made in the querulous voice of the wronged high-schooler (or worse).

That said, I do not very much like the comment about the locker room wedgie.
I have few happy recollections of the general sports-hype of my high-school days. The social pressure was enormous, sometimes insurmountable for those who weren't really good at sports. I guess that a lot of the defensively pitched negativity displayed by the sport hater crowd is informed by a similar background. Explanation, no excuse, agreed. But other mechanisms of sport-related high-school discrimination than that wedgie might run sorely deeper, and to trivialize this could be construed as a prolongation of that discrimination. Not cool.
posted by Namlit at 7:14 AM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm offended by sports. Sports threads are an affront to those of us who are athletically challenged.

"Back in high school, there were a bunch of guys like that in my study hall. They'd spend the entire period talking about Alien Nation. I swear, they knew every line from every episode by heart," said Moreland, who can recite the batting average and on-base percentage of every member of the '86 Mets. "Who needs to memorize that kind of stuff? How useless is that?"
posted by infinitefloatingbrains at 7:19 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Sorry about that. It did read to some people as disdainful of hockey or sports in general, which I'm not. Money and sports is fascinating and interesting things happen all the time in sports I don't follow. In future I will try to treat sports threads as much more serious business, and will not parade my ignorance by asking questions about what it is exactly that happened that made it so important.

Consider me very contrite and slightly disagreeable with this:

The only reason I can think of that one would express pride in not knowing the basics of the topic is to imply those who actually know better are deficient in some way.

To me this is a weird and bad faith reading of what I wrote, however if most sports threads go like that I can see where you're coming from. But it really isn't the only reason, even remotely.

Besides their early appearance, they were also short and dismissive. Kinda classic threadshitting in my understanding of it.

Again, I see where you're coming from but to me more sentences would not have helped me out here. Less sentences, shinybaum. Less sentences altogether!
posted by shinybaum at 7:24 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

if most sports threads go like that

Yes, I feel like it's something that's been going on for years. And, yeah, I may have overstated myself with "only reason".
posted by Dano St at 7:31 AM on November 13, 2010

I removed a few more comments and left a note pointing people to this thread. If your main response to a post is to show up loudly announcing "who cares" you probably need to flag it and move on. Not everything on MeFi will be interesting or relevant to everyone.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:35 AM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

How 'bout them Philly sportsfans lolamirite?
posted by fixedgear at 8:21 AM on November 13, 2010

*pukes on fixedgear*
posted by gman at 8:31 AM on November 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

apologies for the above "wedgie" one-liner.

(for the record, i was definitely not athletic in high school and received a few wedgies.)
posted by TrialByMedia at 8:31 AM on November 13, 2010

Me: "The Wildcats best prospect from Europe was ruled inelgible! Can you believe the hipocracy of the NCAA?"
Girl: "ALL HE DOES IT THROW A BALL THROUGH A DAMN HOOP WHY DO THESE KIDS GET TO GO TO SCHOOL FOR FREEEEEE WHEN REGULAR KIDS HAVE TO PAAAAAAY????!!"
...

A very gentle corrective, (though not a laxative).

As a girl and a die-hard fan of a proverbial team of Wildcats, I find myself on the "me" side of this conversation all the time.

For the purposes of this thread, I wish we could substitute a gender-neutral "dumbass" or "loser" for "girl" in the dialogue.
posted by vincele at 8:32 AM on November 13, 2010 [8 favorites]

For the purposes of this thread, I wish we could substitute a gender-neutral "dumbass" or "loser" for "girl" in the dialogue.

Easily done (and thank goodness there are much fewer girls in Kentucky that are like this than other places) but the conversation was a rough approximation of an real conversation that I had at a bar (not in Kentucky).
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 AM on November 13, 2010

Sports are human endeavors for many purposes, among them personal achievement and entertainment. If there's nothing worthy about sports, then there is nothing worthy about art.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:59 AM on November 13, 2010 [10 favorites]

I don't know anything about hockey, so I stayed out of that thread. But the first thing I thought when I read the fpp was, "Oh yeah? Barry Zito. $126 million for 7 years. Top that." It doesn't help that has soon as he joined the Giants he apparently forgot how to pitch.
posted by rtha at 9:04 AM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

apologies for the above "wedgie" one-liner.
(for the record, i was definitely not athletic in high school and received a few wedgies.)

Ah, I never. But thanks.
posted by Namlit at 9:08 AM on November 13, 2010

If there's nothing worthy about sports, then there is nothing worthy about art.

Cycling is pretty much art. Well, art and fighting online about cheating. Mostly art though.
posted by shinybaum at 9:20 AM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Wow, it's really snowing out there.

Yeah, it's downright ridiculous. Good thing I have food to last the weekend!
posted by graventy at 9:21 AM on November 13, 2010

will not parade my ignorance by asking questions about what it is exactly that happened that made it so important.

That's wonderful. And completely disingenuous. Did you really think the goal of the person skating at a net with a man in it was to not put the puck into the net? How do you not get hit crossing the road?
posted by yerfatma at 9:42 AM on November 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

I didn't post in that thread because I really don't care. But I agree that the video wasn't helpful, especially if you don't know anything about hockey. The pertinent bit is at the end of 4 minutes of boring shooting and the named player never appears until then. It is possible to link to playback positions in videos on youtube so the pointless, boring lead-in was easily skippable.
posted by chairface at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

For all I know the puck is supposed to do that.

How did you survive into adulthood?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 10:15 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wait... genetically engineered tap-dancing bananas? This changes everything.
posted by edgeways at 10:24 AM on November 13, 2010

Snobbery, the bigotry it's OK to like.
posted by fullerine at 10:28 AM on November 13, 2010

Is this the Don Rickles thread, you hockey pucks?
posted by klangklangston at 10:29 AM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Threadshitting from the get-go? I don't see any threadshitting "above the fold", as the interwebz likes to call the first screen's worth of material.

If somebody posted a Peanuts comic strip where Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown and he falls down trying to kick it, and somebody says that they don't understand that he's supposed to kick it, that is what threadshitting is.

Just like how the guy loudly proclaimed he doesn't know that the puck was not supposed to do that.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 10:45 AM on November 13, 2010

I don't see any threadshitting "above the fold", etc.

Okay so we're stuck in semantics again. Dump "threadshitting" already.
If you're not interested in the thread just move on is the interesting bit. What does the name given to not moving on etc., matter?

In a parallel universe, I'm sometimes too stupid not to look at youtube users' comments below the fold. Oh, the agony. Hal_c_on, Mefites are saints!
posted by Namlit at 10:47 AM on November 13, 2010

Puck:
And the youth, mistook by me,
Pleading for a lover's fee.
Shall we their fond pageant see?
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
posted by Wallace Shawn at 10:52 AM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

If somebody posted a Peanuts comic strip where Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown and he falls down trying to kick it, and somebody says that they don't understand that he's supposed to kick it, that is what threadshitting is.


The problem is, most of the world doesn't play handegg, so we've genuinely got no idea what you are supposed to do when the egg is on the floor like that.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:57 AM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

Threeway Handshake: If somebody posted a Peanuts comic strip where Lucy pulls the football away from Charlie Brown and he falls down trying to kick it, and somebody says that they don't understand that he's supposed to kick it, that is what threadshitting is.

I wouldn't call that threadshitting. I'd call it a double.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 10:58 AM on November 13, 2010

If there's nothing worthy about sports, then there is nothing worthy about art.

Yeah and if there's nothing worthy about bacon there's nothing worthy about cats.
posted by cmoj at 11:07 AM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I absolutely love the Peanuts comic reference! For me, as a Western European high school kid, these comics were eternal riddles, especially the ages-long baseball stuff ("Slide, Charlie Brown, slide!" What.). I still don't get most of these, but believe me, the one with Charlie Brown falling down because Lucy pulls the football away was understandable even for me.

I prefer Calvinball though. For those pedestrians who do not even know the rules of that epic game, here they are.
posted by Namlit at 11:10 AM on November 13, 2010

Puck.
posted by ericb at 11:39 AM on November 13, 2010

the conversation was a rough approximation of an real conversation that I had at a bar (not in Kentucky).

I don't think girls should be let in bars. Children in general should drink at home, under the supervision of their parents, as I did.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:03 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I was lucky enough to fast-forward to about 3:30 of the Youtube video to see what was really being talked about. If I hadn't, I probably would have been irritated--I get tired of being asked to sit through what seem like long, extended video sessions without knowing in advance why I'm being asked to do it. (Maybe it's just confirmation bias again, but it seems like there's been an uptick in Youtube links generally lately. I haven't counted.)

Other than that, a perfectly decent post.
posted by gimonca at 12:05 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ok, I was about to say that you should gauge your audience before posting on MeFi, but having the first comment be "don't know hockey and I don't get what's happening in 'and then this happened.' What happened?" is criminal.

Dear poster, that's what the links are for!!! If you can't be arsed to figure out at least what happened, then don't f-ing comment.
posted by malapropist at 12:05 PM on November 13, 2010

Dear poster, that's what the links are for!!! If you can't be arsed to figure out at least what happened, then don't f-ing comment.

Well that only works if the links are informative. Having to wait through 3+ minutes of penalty shots for something less than amazing to happen isn't all that informative.
posted by Big_B at 12:27 PM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

A puck once bit my sister.
posted by Splunge at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2010

I just have to say that "lay a meta" is my new favorite expression.

"Dude, relax. All I did is have sex with your mother. Don't lay a meta over it."
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 12:53 PM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

DTMFA
posted by klangklangston at 12:56 PM on November 13, 2010

I love all the puck wits in this thread.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:41 PM on November 13, 2010

Oh, puck off, alla you puckholes.
posted by rtha at 1:43 PM on November 13, 2010

Having to wait through 3+ minutes of penalty shots for something less than amazing to happen isn't all that informative.

Do you really think the whiners did that though?
posted by smackfu at 2:04 PM on November 13, 2010

Well that only works if the links are informative. Having to wait through 3+ minutes of penalty shots for something less than amazing to happen isn't all that informative.

Yep. I like hockey enough to watch it, if it's on. I watched a minute and a half of that , yawned mightily, turned it off, and went and found something else that interested me more. That was a very poorly framed post, but hey, it's the Internet, right? Not every post is going to be a home-run. It's not as if there aren't thousands of other things to see if one specific thing isn't 100%, categorically, exactly, precisely, perfectly, what appeals to you.

Someone asking for an explanation of something so obscurely framed is hardly worthy of getting worked up about though. I didn't bother, because I didn't care, but scolding the mods for not immediately nuking the possibly less than enamoured posts seems a bit petulant to me. If you find yourself getting into a froth over what you regard as less than perfect obeisance to your specific hobby-horse, you probably need to get a better perspective on the subject.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 2:12 PM on November 13, 2010

Wait, what? You deleted the "How is irony formed?" comment? It was funny and a perfectly reasonable question. I couldn't figure out the point of the post either. Yes, he missed the goal with the puck, but surely this is supposed to happen on occasion - otherwise why not just award the team an extra point. Or goal, or whatever. Later comments explain that he missed the goal in an especially horrible and humiliating way, but these explanations are a consequence of Shinybaum's comment. As the post stood originally, it was mystifying to most people who didn't already know about the missed penalty shot.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:50 PM on November 13, 2010

Do you really think the whiners did that though?

I wasn't whining, but I did watch the whole thing & was quite underwhelmed. So he fluffed a shot? I assume it happens all the time. The fact that he's paid a lot just puts him the same league as, say, Italian soccer players in the World Cup. It's not like this game was the Grand Final, Superbowl or whatever they call the decider in ice hockey, was it?

The most interesting thing for me was that it had 1.2 million views, within only a few days.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:56 PM on November 13, 2010

Well, I thought the kid with the football recently who just like, walked past the defense and was all "SUCKERZZZZZ!"* was FREAKING AWESOME, but MetaFilter sure taught me that I'm wrong and kids shouldn't be playing tackle football and sports are bad and wrong.

*sigh*

My mom really liked it though.

*Not really.
posted by sonika at 3:08 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Do you really think the whiners did that though?

I did, and it was boring. Videos like that are why Youtube invented timestamps. A quick "#t=3m30s" could have saved me watching the rest of it.

At the very least, if you can't or won't give me a later start time on the video, give me a link title that mentions when he takes his shot, so I don't have to sit through the rest of it.
posted by graventy at 3:08 PM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I mean, in the scheme of things it's not as big a deal as New Zealand scoring with about a minute left, to snatch the Four Nations rugby league final from Australia last night - you'd have to watch the whole 1:42 to see the matchwinner, but there are also fights and a haka.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:10 PM on November 13, 2010

I generally blame Canada for this type of thing and that seems to help.
posted by Sailormom at 3:14 PM on November 13, 2010

Really? I was blaming New Zealand.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:17 PM on November 13, 2010

FUCKING CANADA I HOPE YOU GET EATEN BY A BEAR!

hey, you're right.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:27 PM on November 13, 2010

So he fluffed a shot? I assume it happens all the time.

The equivalent in soccer would be something like the player stumbling just before taking a penalty shot and only making enough contact with the ball to send it wide of the goal at about 1 mile an hour. Picture David Beckham doing that with the chance to tie a Premier League match. It would be a reasonably big deal.
posted by A dead Quaker at 3:39 PM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

Dear poster, that's what the links are for!!! If you can't be arsed to figure out at least what happened, then don't f-ing comment.

To be fair, as somebody who understands hockey, I was watching that penalty shootout and about halfway through, I started wondering "What exactly am I waiting for?"
posted by antifuse at 4:14 PM on November 13, 2010

So he fluffed a shot? I assume it happens all the time.

Not in this way, no. There's really only one rule for the offensive player -- you can't go backward. A dead Quaker says it's like stumbling over a penalty shot, which is apt. But my analogy would be even worse. This would be like a soccer player picking up the ball with his hands on a penalty shot.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:18 PM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I watch hardly any hockey, just the occasional stars game when there's nothing else on, but I don't think I've ever seen that happen, nothing that bad at least. BTW, I just noticed that deadspin has a 16 second clip of the screw-up, probably more palatable for most.
posted by dead cousin ted at 4:23 PM on November 13, 2010

I like how the mildest anti-majority (whether sports, religion, meat consumptions, etc) comments are "militant".
posted by DU at 4:36 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

This would be like a soccer player picking up the ball with his hands on a penalty shot.

But that could only happen deliberately. From the video, it looked more like a fuckup - he was trying to be Mr Fancypants, and accidentally hit the puck with the back of the puck-hitting-implement, no?

One of the links also said that these kinds of soccer-style penalty shootouts have only been around for about 1-2 seasons, too, so maybe even the top players aren't used to the pressure?
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:59 PM on November 13, 2010

This thread (and the previously linked one about sports discussion, which I had forgotten about but have just now re-read) has for whatever reason crowned a long-running bit of reflection on the topic of "sports people" versus "anti-sports people." For myself at least, I think I've finally figured out some of the perhaps unexplored undercurrents in this relationship and I'd like to submit them for community review.

And it gets down to me fundamentally disagreeing with this wonderful, highly favorited post from someone who is as close to a personal role-model for me as any human being: Jessamyn. (Sarsly tho Jessamyn can we be friends if I use your previous post as a disagreeing-point? I feel dirty about this.) Also, I think thread crapping sucks and nobody should do it, I'm just exploring my thoughts here. Lastly, this argument is specific to competitive team-based sports.

The thing is, it IS belonging. This is culture. You may not like it or enjoy it or it may not be your idea of a good time, but in the US and I'm sure in many other places, having a sports affiliation [even if it's just "Go Packers!"] gives you a bunch of people who will see you as someone who is, in some small way, part of something that they are also part of. This is true for TV shows and operating system wars and pet ownership and a ton of other things that allow people to find common ground and shared interests and understanding.

It may not be your thing, you may have a critique of it -- I certainly feel that way about shopping a lot of the time "what you guys have something in common because you both like spending money in the same stores?" -- but it's not fake, it's just not real to you. Jumping in and pissing on everyone's parade just seems like you're defining other people's experiences as inauthentic [yeah major league athletes are millionaires, okay, so? Did anyone say they weren't?] and more often then not, not even having a discussion about it, just saying "Your favorite cultural identity sucks."

It's really really simple to dismiss the things that other people care about while at the same time not talking about anything you personally care about. Being contrary for the sake of being contrary is tired, boring and lazy.

Now clearly here we have related the heart of spectator sport: apparent community. And, I would argue, that is a major sticking point. It it not at all unlike modern political discourse, where "taking sides" has become more important than actually doing the mental legwork to come up with your own opinions and standings on the issues. Competitive team-based sports offer artificial conflict, where you can pick a side and engage in epic struggle without expending any significant effort. (This is where the Roman circus, etc. parallels seem to get drawn from.) Putting on the jersey ties you into it, you can feel a part of it, and when your team does well you get an effervescent sense of accomplishment as though you had actually just done something beyond watching a team of people play a game. There's lots of excitement and suspense because you're artificially investing yourself in the proceedings.

But logically, this is fairly spurious. What ties a person to a team? Geography? In that way it is reticent of nationalism, or partisanship, which personally I see as an unnecessary evil. It feels like conformity. It seems to come back to the "us versus them" mentality that gets mankind in trouble day after day and century after century. Frankly, when I hear detailed a situation where a stranger will be nicer to me because I'm also a fan of that person's favorite team--it comes off as selfish. Just like people being more giving to people with whom they happen to be related, or shared a hometown with, or went to college with, or share skin color or religious association with. Can't people just be nice? Apparently not, we have to first establish some sort of common ground even if it has no concrete correlation whatsoever to anything.

Which is to say--one must affirm the decisions of the other by being like them in some way, even superficially. Coaches and players change out every few years, but loyalties by and large remain the same without any real concern to substance beyond a logo or color. That is disturbingly similar to the unengaged American public and our political, religious, and social conformities. The Rs and Ds aren't helping any more than the Red Sox and Yankees.

And to even further abstract this--at its heart, this all seems to be driven by a very basic impulse, which is:

We must be strong, and hold solidarity, because we must win against the enemy, who is evil.

And that's all you need. You don't need to win in the marketplace of ideas, or undergo scrutiny, or speak to your own position. Just start declaring things "Un-American" or "liberal" or "conservative" or "soft on crime" or "socialist" or "Eurasia." Whatever positive statements you were making fall away. You don't have to be for anything if you're against something else. Why else would Change be such a popular slogan? Because it is undefined. Affirm the audience as broadly as possible, give them an enemy, and assure them that it is evil and its victory would assure the destruction of their personal ideals and wellbeing, probably with scare tactics. Join the club, fight with the team (except by "fight" we mean vote a certain party, or buy our products, or something else that isn't fighting at all but, hey, we'll still call it that and you'll feel good for having done it because we'll affirm it for you and grar to the enemy) and hey, isn't that a nice sense of accomplishment you got when "your" side won?

Of course, I do not blame sport or those who derive enjoyment from watching it with any social evil. But the social principle it makes readily evident--and which so many do not seem to question or even notice--I find a great anathema to modern society. It's the most transparent form of "us versus them," wholly stripped of substance and laced with a very distasteful bit of conformity. So--when I am around those who live and breathe team-based sports without wondering why, who wear the colors and scream at the television even though their team winning or losing will have no real consequences in their lives whatsoever and they don't even personally know any members of the team, I can't help but think of any number of similar events in different facets of life.
posted by Phyltre at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Every single one of you pro-sports people in here, who are complaining about the "THEY JUST THROW A BALL THROUGH A HOOOOOOOOOP" people: I support you fully.

However.

I expect you to keep your damn mouths shut when we start talking about NASCAR. Not one comment about auto racing not being a sport. Not even one little "THEY JUST TURN LEEEEEEEEEEEFT."

I also expect you to clam up about how much someone else's favorite band sucks, or how playing World of Warcraft is a waste of time, or...well, pretty much about anything were someone's enjoying something that you don't understand or enjoy.

Otherwise you're just a bunch of damn hypocrites. That is all.
posted by davejay at 5:21 PM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Phyltre - what I think is missing in your argument is the notion of the cameraderie & sportsmanship usually shown between the fans of opposing teams.

Sure, you see reports of mob violence & rioting occasionally, but that's the exception rather than the rule, and I'd assume that in those cases there are other kinds of ethnic or socioeconomic tensions simmering underneath, and the teams are already projections of the group identities.

If you go to watch a regular game, there's plenty of good natured back-and-forth between the fans of the teams, but I've only ever experienced it in a fun & lighthearted spirit, and at the end of the game there's a whole lot of congratulations and "We'll get you next time!" & everybody catches the same trains home & it's all relaxed & good natured - maybe because the fans actually have a lot more in common than in difference.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:24 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

> This thread [...] life.

Jesus Christ. I appreciate your capacity for beanplating, I really do, but 1) it's the farthest thing from original to compare sports fandom to nationalism and [INSERT GODWIN HERE], and 2) it's fundamentally simplistic (reducing the infinite variety of human responses and interaction to U SUCK NO U SUCK) and, frankly, insulting to those of us who care about sports. But this is MetaTalk, where everyone is free to complain at length about everything.
posted by languagehat at 5:26 PM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

languagehat, do you have an alternate explanation of what drives fanship in team-based competitive sports? Or rather I guess my question is why my beanplating is insulting.

And to be clear, both to you and sports fans in general, my post was not meant as a complaint. It was just meant to address why some people might not like how team-based sports seem to reflect lots of other contentious parts of our culture, which leads to threadcrapping, which sucks and is the topic of this meta. I was merely offering my thoughts, not composing an anti-sports screed. I'm not an anti-sports person, I don't really get their prominence but I'm not bothered by sports threads/posts/discussions on Metafilter.
posted by Phyltre at 5:37 PM on November 13, 2010

I don't particularly like hockey, but I knew about Kovalchuk, and I clicked on the post because I like sports, I like you folks, and I like conversations about things I like with people I like. I read a bit, realized, sort of sadly, that the post was probably not going anywhere good. I flagged a bit, and I moved on.

I'd really, really like it if someday Metafilter could get over it about sports. Sports fans aren't ignorant of the facts you like to throw our way as proof that sports suck. If anything, we're more likely to be aware of how ridiculous a certain contract is. We're probably more likely to know the ins and outs of that one team demanding a stadium, and how much it will cost for them to get it, or for them to leave. For whatever reason, there are people out there with different ideas and interests than yours, and it would be really, really keen if you would take that into account before complaining about there being "GASP!" sports on Metafilter.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:42 PM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

the other day i was going to make an FPP on the coaches of the dallas cowboys, the challenges, and the strange move of replacing the head coach midseason. there were links about jerry jones (and family)'s total control over the cowboys, links about wes phillips - the son of the now fired head coach - who still has a job to do for the cowboys.

i did some of the research and link gathering, then i looked at the front page, remembered the metatalk thread from a few months ago, and deleted my links/write up. i knew that it was going to be a case of "fuck sports" and "fuck the cowboys" and i just didn't want to bother.

i wish we had fewer threadshitters and fewer people who feel the need to tell us when they're bored by a topic - but we don't. i find that sad.
posted by nadawi at 6:09 PM on November 13, 2010 [7 favorites]

I'm not so keen on the idea that a poster is obliged to make everything crystal clear for the complete novice; I mean, wilful obscurity is probably asking for trouble but I see no harm in assuming that your potential audience has either the basic general knowledge, curiosity or ability to search themselves necessary to engage.
posted by Abiezer at 6:15 PM on November 13, 2010

nadawi, I would have read and appreciated your thread. However, as a sports fan, I would likely have been unable to resist the pure thrill of schadenfreude as pertains to the cowboys.

On the other hand, at least you have the blissful resignation that goes with booting a coach mid-season. I'm beginning to fear that my potential grandchildren with believe that being the coach of the Bears is a lifelong gig. Lovie Smith is the coach of the Bears. Lovie Smith will always be the coach of the Bears...
posted by Ghidorah at 6:25 PM on November 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

nadawi, I would have loved to see the post you describe, although you are absolutely right that it would have been shit all over to kingdom come. Just letting you know at least someone would have enjoyed it.
posted by dead cousin ted at 6:36 PM on November 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

If i am learning wing chun can i be Putin? because i could blare 'Electric Funeral' in the kremlin and that would be cool.
Я люблю "Black Sabbath".
it just seems wise not to potty mouth in a thread about people who compete.
posted by clavdivs at 6:47 PM on November 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

dead cousin ted wrote: I just noticed that deadspin has a 16 second clip of the screw-up, probably more palatable for most.

Yes, thanks, that made it a lot clearer. I was looking at the wrong missed goal. Yeah, he does look stupid. I wish the poster had linked to this one instead.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:05 PM on November 13, 2010

If I can't favorite that Cowboys post, I can at least favorite the comment.
posted by box at 7:08 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'd also have liked to see that post, nadawi.

(But I admit I would have been laughing the whole time, because Fuck the Cowboys.)
posted by Etrigan at 7:28 PM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

There are two different versions of the shorter clip right there at the top in the first link of the FPP. But I, too, skipped right over that link and all the others, went straight for the "and then this happened" video, and found myself getting impatient waiting for what I correctly deduced would be a hilarious screwup. It was worth it when it finally came, though. As unforced errors go, that one was a classic, and the back story provided by the OP made it that much more enjoyable to watch. If the OP did anything wrong, it was just making the longer clip more appealing than the main one, for lazy bastards like me.

--

My high school choir was about 95% nerds and 5% jocks. On bus trips the nerds would group together to discuss Dungeons and Dragons, musicals, or whatever, and the jocks would sit together and talk about dude stuff. Sometimes the nerds would kid around with the jocks, and the jocks would accept it in good spirit, but if someone crossed the line it usually resulted in a wedgie or a swirly.

Here, the nerd to jock ratio is probably about the same, if not even higher, but some people feel more emboldened to be obnoxious because the possibility of physical retribution is essentially nil. When I start to get angry about the anti-sports vibe here I just remember how in choir everybody knew that deep down inside all the nerds felt secretly validated by the presence of a few jocks.
posted by Balonious Assault at 7:42 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Here's what can happen when sports fan confuse their fandom with themselves. This guy conflates the skills of the combatants of the mixed martial arts with himself. Note all the people there wearing these Tap Out shirts, who identify with their idols, but lack any of these skills themselves.

NSFW due to language. Can't stop laughing. Also Cheeseburger.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:02 PM on November 13, 2010

If i am learning wing chun can i be Putin? because i could blare 'Electric Funeral' in the kremlin and that would be cool.
Я люблю "Black Sabbath".
it just seems wise not to potty mouth in a thread about people who compete.

You can't bring up Black Sabbath without invoking the greatest riff ever.
posted by NoMich at 8:20 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

"I do not blame sport or those who derive enjoyment from watching it with any social evil. But the social principle it makes readily evident-...etc...to question or even notice--I find a great anathema to modern society... etc...their team winning or losing will have no real consequences in their lives whatsoever..."

Here I see a women displaying a very good 'whooping' against at black belt in a different disipline
is that sport, is it exercise. is it respect. is it practicle?

warning: sound track is...yea.

-supernaut by far the best tune. We'll kick that while Medvedev gets Andropovs bong. I would not be suprised he Mr.M did kick this. because I would and no one could say anything bout it except the president.
posted by clavdivs at 8:36 PM on November 13, 2010

Not to come in and be a total downer, but in other hockey news, Ottawa Senators assistant coach Luke Richardson's 14 year old daughter hung herself today. Horrible.
posted by kpht at 8:39 PM on November 13, 2010

he...if/...yup I'm speakn 'meetch-uhGhun-easseee"
posted by clavdivs at 8:41 PM on November 13, 2010

ghastly news. I remember when the senators were in washington and played baseball.
[runs]
posted by clavdivs at 8:44 PM on November 13, 2010

ya know canada is my nearest neighbour
not ohio.
posted by clavdivs at 8:45 PM on November 13, 2010

The center of here is somewhere between Bryn Mawr and the Planned Parenthood that is nearest.
posted by vapidave at 8:55 PM on November 13, 2010

Here, the nerd to jock ratio is probably about the same, if not even higher, but some people feel more emboldened to be obnoxious because the possibility of physical retribution is essentially nil.

If you're using "jock" and "nerd" in a sense such that these sets are complements, I would guess the percentage is less than 5%. I've played both D&D and (pick-up) hockey. I've played M:tG and I have season football tickets. I would be I'm not the only one on metafilter who quite comfortably straddles this supposed gap.
posted by chndrcks at 9:27 PM on November 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

So, two months ago, I spent a week driving from DC to Bartlesville, Oklahoma and back, solo. I tried to make some good mixes for the trip, and even made an AskMe post about doing so, but in the end I mostly just ended up trying out all of the XM stations I'd been neglecting for two years.

In under two hours into my trip, I realized that I can't stand talk-radio, except for Sports talk-radio, which I love. Three reasons:

1. It is run by good-humored supergeeks. They assume that you, the listener, will be well-informed about whatever they are discussing, and really give you almost no foundation to understand what they're going on about. For most people, this would be supremely frustrating, and I can imagine it being so for me as well, like on a channel about financial markets or something which I historically have a tough time comprehending. Instead, for me, every discussion was one where I was trying to figure out what was being talked about. I know baseball pretty well, and followed basketball in my youth, but rarely ever watch games now. I know just enough that each story was like a audio crossword-puzzle on my road trip.

And these hosts are insanely knowledgeable. They don't just know all of the facts and stats - they know how to analyze them and compare them and contextualize them and really bring out a story about what they mean. And since there are only a dozen or fewer decent sports stories a week to be talking about, listen enough and you know what's going on eventually, and a bunch of different ways of looking at it, partially because:

2. They analogize like crazy. Because geeks will geek out. These hosts all seem to have played sports in college, but at academically rigorous schools, and because geekdom comes from incessant curiosity, they are not just knowledgeable about sports, but history, politics, books, music, and the like. Which is how you can get Doug Gottlieb beginning his show with five or ten minutes about the Carter administration, how ineffective it was in convincing America that it's goals were worth any effort, but how those concerns have borne the fruit of all of the things we're dealing with today, because we ignored them at the time. It's how you get two sportscasters spending five minutes on the air talking about how much they love Passion Pit. It's accessible without being pandering.

3. It has no broad agenda. Not to knock political commentators for having their own points of view, but it is unbelievably refreshing to listen to hosts who only want to be accurate and see their analysis be proven by later results. When people get into arguments on Sports radio, they are civil, because nothing very real is at stake. They counter with facts. And then people relent when they realize they have been proven wrong.

So I get home resolved to start following sports more, because the discussion of them is honestly intellectually stimulating for me. I decide to start following Basketball, because Kevin Durant seems like an honestly good guy and I'm from Oklahoma so why not. I decide to start following College Football, because I'm working with two daughters of the UMD coach, whose job was on the brink at the start of this season. And I decide to start following Hockey because I've only seen one game in my life and know nothing about it, really (Go Habs!)

I loved the disputed link in this post precisely because it started with three and a half minutes which, to me, explained what a shootout should look like, before showing us what it absolutely should NOT look like. The video gave anyone all they needed to understand the context of the godawful play.

Also, nadawi, I would have loved your post, but mostly because I hate the Cowboys. Still, it would have been interesting. I myself have considered making a post about Oregon State, and how they came out of almost nowhere this year with an offense that revolutionizes the sport in a ton of smart ways. Maybe I still will.

And for Luke Richardson's daughter:

.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:54 PM on November 13, 2010 [16 favorites]

Oh, and I made that epic comment after having just returned home from a D&D game.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:56 PM on November 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I myself have considered making a post about Oregon State

Sorry about that one.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:11 PM on November 13, 2010

I would be I'm not the only one on metafilter who quite comfortably straddles this supposed gap.

Yeah, no doubt. It was a forced analogy, but that didn't stop me from posting it. I was on the nerd end of the spectrum in high school choir, and I'm probably far to the other end here. I do get frustrated when people try to belittle sports and sports fans on MeFi, and I like to think that the really obnoxious ones are lashing out because it's safe to do it online, where they won't be subjected to the humiliation of yet another swirly.

On preview: Amen, Navelgazer. That's the thing -- sports nerds are still nerds, and there's just something supremely wrong about nerd-on-nerd hate. It's particularly disappointing to see it on Metafilter, especially when "nothing very real is at stake."

Unfortunately, because I live in Seattle I can support your appreciation for Kevin Durant, but I do hope the Thunder fail miserably for all eternity.
posted by Balonious Assault at 10:37 PM on November 13, 2010

Navelgazer has precisely explained why I love watching SportsCenter at the gym. I have no clue what is going on. But the serious people are being serious and talking fluently at length about something that is so far from my life it may as well be a Martian television broadcast.

Then I ask my best friend about it and he, too, talks seriously and fluently at length about what it all means that football players are poorly paid or something about how the baseball leagues are structured. It's fascinating! But it all dribbles out of my head and then I end up telling someone that a coworker's kid is a front safety and everyone laughs at me.

I don't think I knew a single person who played a sport in high school or college, unless it was some of the soccer players. We were all in marching band. Football was just burly people running around on the field until we performed at halftime. I'm sure it was exactly the opposite for the football people.
posted by winna at 11:33 PM on November 13, 2010

Sports-hate is hilarious. It really is. It seems to me to be largely the product of people who haven't gotten over high school's asinine nerd/jock dichotomy.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:38 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

It seems to me to be largely the product of people who haven't gotten over high school's asinine nerd/jock dichotomy.

Nah. I can't stand watching sports — bores the hell out of me, and I think it's a big waste of resources, money, and attention. If it were only sports fans that had to bear the costs, that would be one thing, but they often hit taxpayers up to build stadiums and that infuriates me. I could see some of that kind of passion being translated into "I MUST COMMENT."

Still, that doesn't mean one should then actually go into MeFi sports threads and act on that urge. That's just being annoying.
posted by moonbiter at 2:01 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

they often hit taxpayers up to build stadiums and that infuriates me

Why not just follow, say, the English Premier League? That way, you get the pleasure of knowing that your entertainment has been subsidised by English taxpayers.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:09 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

UbuRoivas wrote: Why not just follow, say, the English Premier League?

You sound really confident about sports for someone who can't even recognise a hockey bat.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:17 AM on November 14, 2010

I loved the disputed link in this post precisely because it started with three and a half minutes which, to me, explained what a shootout should look like, before showing us what it absolutely should NOT look like. The video gave anyone all they needed to understand the context of the godawful play.

That's what frustrated me about the reaction to the video. On the one hand you have people complaining about the 3 1/2 minutes of penalty shots, on the other you have people literally complaining that they didn't know that the guy with the stick and the little black thing was supposed to get the little black thing past the other guy with a stick into the net thing. Really?! Watching five other guys try to do that, and then you get to the guy whose jersey name matches the name on the post and he doesn't even get the little black thing halfway to the other guy with the stick, and you couldn't figure out that that was a pretty spectacular muff? Really?! If sincere, I question your inductive reasoning skills. I suspect it wasn't sincere, though, but just more snarky LOLSPORTS threadshitting.

I always find it interesting that self-described intelligent people proudly wear their ignorance of certain topics like a badge. I mean, it's fine if something doesn't interest you, but usually the proud ignorance and lack of intellectual curiosity is associated with the Sarah Palins of the world.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:18 AM on November 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

Phyltre: As UbuRoivas says, your framing ignores the potential for sports diplomacy. Certainly Pakistan-India cricket matches have been pretty key in maintaining channels of communication between the two countries. And while both countries have their diehard fans, each enjoys watching the games with fans of the opposing team. Conceding grudging respect to Imran Khan or Sachin Tendulkar is a part of the game of fandom. Where the grudging part of the respect is just for show, and both sides know it. Really, everyone is in awe of the skills of the players.

Sports fans *can* get militant (think football hooliganism, for one amongst many examples), but to dismiss love of the home team as being analogous to militant nationalism is not fair. One can love America, or whatever country what happens to belong to, and identify with other Americans, without automatically turning it into an us vs them thing. Competing against friends can be a lot of fun for everyone. It doesn't at all have to breed the kind of chauvinism that your comment seems to imply.
posted by bardophile at 5:21 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

It seems to me to be largely the product of people who haven't gotten over high school's asinine nerd/jock dichotomy.

lol no. I was (am) a nerd with anger management issues, so I played lots and lots of junior high/high school sports in the hopes of getting to hit people and things with sticks. I hate watching sports on tv or live because I'd rather be playing them.
posted by elizardbits at 5:54 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

That's the exact reason I hate porn.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:19 AM on November 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

Also game shows.
posted by box at 6:46 AM on November 14, 2010

As a cowboys fan, even I would have enjoyed nadawi's cowboys schadenfiesta. Good riddance Wade. Now about Jerry....
posted by Big_B at 8:14 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

You sound really confident about sports for someone who can't even recognise a hockey bat.

In the states it's called a 'hockey stick.'
posted by ericb at 8:21 AM on November 14, 2010

In Australia it's called sarcasm.
posted by zamboni at 8:31 AM on November 14, 2010

(In before chazwozzer.)
posted by zamboni at 8:32 AM on November 14, 2010

Ahhh. Sarcasm.

Like: Joe in Australia sounds really confident for the fact that he holds his hockey bat (whatever) upside down?
[Since we're trading old hats anyway...]
posted by Namlit at 8:38 AM on November 14, 2010

Why not just follow, say, the English Premier League? That way, you get the pleasure of knowing that your entertainment has been subsidised by English taxpayers.

Typically, the clubs pay for the stadiums over here. (Other than Manchester City, whose stadium was built by Manchester Council for the Commonwealth Games, hence known derisively as the Council House).

[Insert gloating comment about the Four Nations here]
posted by Infinite Jest at 8:44 AM on November 14, 2010

I have to say, the wikipedia article on Field hockey sticks is serious business- it's three times the length of the Ice hockey one.

To describe the dimensions of Head and Handle the hockey stick is envisaged to be placed with the bottom curve of the stick-head on a level surface, the x-axis, with the stick-handle perpendicular to it (the y-axis). The y-axis runs from an intersection with the x-axis (0) vertically through the midpoint of the top of the handle. The Head is the part from the x-axis to the line C-C (diagram) a vertical distance of 100mm. This line C-C also describes the limit on any upturn to the 'toe' of the Head. By Rule there is no limit to the length of the stick-head along the x-axis, but practical considerations, as well as technicalities related to the joining of the Head and the Handle (on the line C-C), do create limitations.

The extent of the stick-head along the X+ axis, towards the 'heel' of the Head is confined by the rule requirement that the stick-head and the handle meet in a smooth continuous fashion at the line C-C and by a rule restriction on the shape of the handle, which is that the stick-handle must not project beyond the line B1-B1. It is possible to envisage a stick where the width of handle did not extend beyond the line A1-A1, thus allowing a significant extension of the stick-head along the X+ axis, but the practicalities of such a design seem to be limited and have not been explored. The length of the Head (or 'toe') along the X- axis has varied enormously, especially since the Second World War and again after the introduction of the timber lamination process in the early 1980s.

posted by zamboni at 9:07 AM on November 14, 2010

Ice hockey stick, even.
posted by zamboni at 9:08 AM on November 14, 2010

zamboni: "I have to say, the wikipedia article on Field hockey sticks is serious business- it's three times the length of the Ice hockey one"

I wouldn't have expected you to reverse that, but I'm pretty sure an ice hockey stick is much longer than a field hockey one.
posted by gman at 9:25 AM on November 14, 2010

A field hockey stick is certainly shorter than an ice hockey one, but the Field hockey sticks article is much longer than the article on Ice hockey sticks.
posted by zamboni at 9:39 AM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, but it is all unsourced/uncitationed, which is pretty much a capital crime in Wikistan.
posted by elizardbits at 9:45 AM on November 14, 2010

Just want to say that my fantasy Premier League team, Hull Caliban, is currently holding 5th in the Mefi Fantasy League. Given that on Week 2, they were second from the bottom, that's pretty cool.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:22 AM on November 14, 2010

Why does it always come down to a competition over who has the longest stick?
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:30 AM on November 14, 2010

Ice hockey stick, even. -- posted by zamboni

Eponysterical!
posted by ericb at 1:03 PM on November 14, 2010

Way, way back in my university days, I was, as now, not all that interested in hockey, or in sports in general.

But I sat and watched the games with the guys, because doing so involved pizza and a lot of beer. Then, as now, I was inordinately fond of pizza and beer. And after the game was done, I could generally recruit some people to go do some serious drinking.

Life requires some compromise sometimes.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:47 PM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

i could kiss jason garrett! that is all.
posted by nadawi at 6:31 PM on November 14, 2010

Cowboys in the super bowl, you heard it here first.
posted by dead cousin ted at 7:21 PM on November 14, 2010

Cowboys in the super bowl, you heard it here first.

Did not. Heard it first in 1972.
posted by gingerest at 7:33 PM on November 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

honestly, if jason garrett can win enough games and have enough close games that they lose to keep jerry jones happy, but still end up middling/not playoff contenders - it would be the best outcome, i think. do just enough that jerry brings him back next year, but not so much that the cowboys get a worse position in the draft. the team is getting old, they need new blood. a middling to bad season is a great way to do that.
posted by nadawi at 8:50 PM on November 14, 2010

I'm not too thrilled about garrett, seeing as he's been running the offense this whole time, but there's a pretty low bar set for him seeing as a) no one else wants the job except gruden and b) jerrah loves someone he can keep under his thumb. I don't dislike garrett or anything, I'm just not jazzed about him keeping the job in the long run. I also hope he drops the motivational speaker talk, his post game interviews made it seem like he was going to be giving out gold star stickers in the locker room.
posted by dead cousin ted at 9:34 PM on November 14, 2010

One of the tv commentators said something like 'Now that we know that the team is capable of playing like this under Garrett, we have to wonder why they weren't professional enough to play like that under Phillips.'
posted by box at 5:39 AM on November 15, 2010

Nah. I can't stand watching sports — bores the hell out of me, and I think it's a big waste of resources, money, and attention. If it were only sports fans that had to bear the costs, that would be one thing, but they often hit taxpayers up to build stadiums and that infuriates me.

So kinda like theaters, opera houses, art galleries and museums, then?
posted by rocket88 at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2010 [6 favorites]

So kinda like theaters, opera houses, art galleries and museums, then?

Kinda like that, only they cost way more, make rich people even richer at taxpayer expense, and have no intellectually redeeming qualities.
posted by coolguymichael at 10:56 AM on November 15, 2010

I'm going to open a Museum of Sweeping Generalizations, you guys want in on this idea?
posted by Mister_A at 11:02 AM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

Nah, musuems are just places where nerds get paid to build diaramas & store their rock collections in glass cabinets.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:09 AM on November 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

The story that all hockey fans should be watching.
posted by rollbiz at 11:56 AM on November 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

No one will see this anecdote but who cares:

davejay: I expect you to keep your damn mouths shut when we start talking about NASCAR. Not one comment about auto racing not being a sport. Not even one little "THEY JUST TURN LEEEEEEEEEEEFT."

I was at a clergy luncheon today with a couple dozen ministers and we were going around in a circle answering silly questions. (Yes, this is what goes on at clergy luncheons. Cat's out of the bag.) Anyway, at one point a woman pastor was asked the question, "If you were a NASCAR driver, what would your nickname be and what would your car look like?" I immediately and instinctively winced, because I literally knew what the future held.
A torrent of lame, tired NASCAR jokes began to bounce around the room. "You should be nicknamed lefty! Because, you know, they just turn left!" "I don't know anything about this silly car racing sport!" "Make your car pink, PINK, PIIIIINK!!!" Because, you see, all NASCAR enthusiasts are so homophobic that were there a pink car, it would irritate them to no end! Seriously?
NASCAR is the fastest growing sport in America. I used to rag on NASCAR until I actually went to a race. It was loud, fast, exciting, there was beer and music and it was fun. I enjoy college football and hockey games and it had all the same kinds of stuff.
And it was especially frustrating to see clergypeople, folks who are supposed to get paid to relate to people, making a mockery of something that's so important to so many Americans. I realized that I was seeing the embodiment of what my beloved tea-party uncle calls, "elitists."
There are plenty of reasons to criticize the amount of resources that our nation contributes toward professional sports. But singling out NASCAR is offensive.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 3:36 PM on November 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

Indy Car though, has no redeeming features, I think we all agree. But for my money the best race car driver ever was Big Daddy Don Garlits.
posted by Mister_A at 7:52 AM on November 18, 2010