moan, moan, moan June 24, 2011 1:49 PM   Subscribe

Not sure why this was chatfilter?

I did mean the question honestly. This is a song I like that I heard recently. I would like to hear other good songs that came out recently. Please post some?

Not the most profound or well written question but it seemed legitimate to me.
posted by sully75 to Etiquette/Policy at 1:49 PM (64 comments total)

I believe that you meant it honestly, I was not implying otherwise. But "what are some good songs" is exactly the sort of totally unconstrained everybody-just-say-whatever question that the Chatfilter guideline prohibits. If you've got a specific kind of music you're looking for or have some specific context in which you're looking, that can work okay, but "what do you like" is just a chat session waiting to happen.

There are lots of honest questions people have that aren't really a good fit for askme; that's not really the criterion at issue.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:52 PM on June 24, 2011


From the Chatfilter link in the deletion reason,

- Questions where everyone's answer is equally valid along the lines of "What's your favorite X?"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:53 PM on June 24, 2011


This one seems popular: X
posted by longsleeves at 2:01 PM on June 24, 2011 [4 favorites]


Convoy. That "Rubber Duckie" part always cracks me up.

Oh, recent? Um, Smells Like Teen Spirit.
posted by The Deej at 2:02 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


I've been listening to 4′33″ on repeat all day
posted by nathancaswell at 2:04 PM on June 24, 2011 [12 favorites]


Figure out what aspects of County Line it is that you like, then re-ask your question next week but phrase it so that the correct answers can match their suggestions with the aspects of the song you like. This is how I 'got away with it'.

If you just want suggestions for good songs that have come out lately, though, try Pitchfork or something. AskMe isn't your google.
posted by carsonb at 2:08 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


sully75, what would be your example of chatfilter? Cause this one seems pretty canonical to me.
posted by argybarg at 2:08 PM on June 24, 2011


"What are some recently released good songs" seems just as specific as innumerable undeleted music recommendation questions. I thought cortex was the one with the soft spot for music chatfilter too?
posted by smackfu at 2:09 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


"What are some recently released good songs that IRFH wouldn't think are shite?" That would work. "What are some recently released good songs involving bestiality?" That would work. "What are some recently released good songs in 7/4 time? With banjos? And penguins on the cover art? Produced entirely by women?"

You know... questions where the answer set is smaller than infinity, but larger than 0.

Good luck!

Also, the answer to your question is Plastic Beach by Gorillaz. It's not new new, but I happen to be listening to it right now. It kicks serious ass.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:18 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


But apparently FishingForReasurranceFilter is still alive and kicking.

I mean, come on. What, was somebody going to respond, "Yes, that means you're fat"? If a question only has one "correct" answer, is it still considered answerable?

I mean, I know that lots of AskMe questions boil down to "Hey all, I'm thinking about doing [X], I'm pretty sure I want to do [X], okay, fine, I'm going to do [X], but could you please give me some reassurance since I'm going to do [X] anyway?" but even for AskMe this one was a little over-the-top.
posted by Afroblanco at 2:26 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


But apparently FishingForReasurranceFilter is still alive and kicking.

Correct, it's not against the rules. Chatfilter, however, is.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:32 PM on June 24, 2011 [8 favorites]


Wait, what exactly do you mean, Afroblanco?
posted by carsonb at 2:35 PM on June 24, 2011


Afroblanco, you linked to a question that has an answer. The answer to the question is "this is normal, you are not fat." The asker likely genuinely did not know the answer before asking.

I'm confused about why that type of question needs to be pointed out by you in the context of Chatfilter.
posted by bilabial at 2:38 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


I've seen some pretty vague questions here that ended up being long, extremely interesting recommendations for interesting things that I've bookmarked and gone back to many times (in fact, these are the only posts I end up going back to). I wasn't interested in narrowing it down because I wasn't interested in narrowing it down. Because if I knew what I was looking for I wouldn't be asking.

Whatev.
posted by sully75 at 2:38 PM on June 24, 2011


Here's an example of a "recommend some music" question that went really well for me. My guidelines were pretty vague, but they were there and I was really pleased with the results. You gotta have some sorta framework for AskMe to be all that it can be. If you're just interested in "any new music at all," there's plenty of dedicated music websites out there to consult.

I think yours would have worked had you identified what appealed to you about the song you linked and asked for some suggestions based on those aspects. So close!
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:48 PM on June 24, 2011


Wait, what exactly do you mean, Afroblanco?

Well, one of the requirements for a question is that it needs to be something that is answerable -- that's one of the things that stops it from being chatfilter, right? So I'm saying that "does this make me look fat?" is a question that only has one acceptable answer, and is just kinda silly for a q&a site.

Anyway, whatever, it's not something that I really care about or think is a big deal. But I do think the song recommendation filter would have been a much more useful to the community.
posted by Afroblanco at 2:50 PM on June 24, 2011


So I'm saying that "does this make me look fat?" is a question that only has one acceptable answer, and is just kinda silly for a q&a site.

And I think what I'm saying is that she wasn't asking that question. People have all sorts of anxieties and concerns and getting a wide range of answers is useful. However, that question was fairly narrow, and answerable. We don't ask for much in terms of recommendation questions, but we do need a little bit to go on, otherwise it's just "make a list of new music" at which point the question becomes "What can AskMe offer that Google hasn't?"
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:00 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


So I'm saying that "does this make me look fat?" is a question that only has one acceptable answer, and is just kinda silly for a q&a site.

I'm trying to figure out how you read that in that question.
posted by rtha at 3:04 PM on June 24, 2011


If you're just interested in "any new music at all," there's plenty of dedicated music websites out there to consult.

I was interested in new music that people on metafilter would recommend. Songs that people on metafilter were currently excited about. I'm generally dissatisfied with digging up music online (other than a few specific blogs I like) but generally very satisfied with stuff that's turned up on metafilter.

I'm sure, on this very here site, there are many people who are excited about a particular track right now, as I was, and would probably be happy to share it, and see what other members would like to share.

Anyway, I'm seeing that I'm not winning this one, so I'll leave it at that. I'm not sure that this would have brought down the site, and I had seen this question, I would have happily answered it and gone through the recommendations.

I've flagged chatfilter posts before, but would not have tagged this one.
posted by sully75 at 3:10 PM on June 24, 2011


I'm trying to figure out how you read that in that question.

Well, it's very clear that she isn't fat and was just looking for reassurance. And what if someone didn't want to give her that reassurance? What if they popped into the thread and said, "Yes, you're fat." Could you imagine the kind of shitstorm that would ensue? Or hell, would that comment even survive, or would it be deleted?

So yeah, it was a yes/no question where the only correct answer was "no". So kinda silly for a Q&A site.

Anyway, I'm wishing I didn't say anything, because now it looks like this is something I really care about or that I was offended or something -- and it's not and I wasn't.
posted by Afroblanco at 3:21 PM on June 24, 2011 [3 favorites]


Come on over here. We have bunnies and pie.
posted by Splunge at 3:26 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was interested in new music that people on metafilter would recommend. Songs that people on metafilter were currently excited about. I'm generally dissatisfied with digging up music online (other than a few specific blogs I like) but generally very satisfied with stuff that's turned up on metafilter.

Which is fine, but that and nothing more is really too broad and undirected for Ask Metafilter. It might be a great conversation to have over on chat-friendly cousin site Metachat, or you might check in on GoodListnr, or you could pop over to Music and see if anybody is chattering about new music stuff, or keep an eye out for music-related posts on the blue and see what people are excited about in there, or you could pop into profiles for random mefites and see what's up on their last.fm feeds, or so on, or just exchange friendly mefimail with similarly music-minded folks you're familiar with on the site, or go to a meetup and chat about music in person, or or or.

There's plausible paths to music chatter, but totally open-ended stuff like this on the green isn't really one of 'em. It's not a huge deal from our end, and we understand that people enjoy being chatty, it's just not something that fits the established guidelines of that part of the site.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:35 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


sully75, I don't see your name on my list for the MeFi CD Mix Swap...
posted by carsonb at 3:58 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


Well, it's very clear that she isn't fat and was just looking for reassurance.

To me, it was very clear that she wasn't sure what "normal" might be for her particular weight/body type and was trying to crowdsource some (anec)data.
posted by rtha at 3:58 PM on June 24, 2011


rtha : okay, yeah I get what you're saying. I mean, if she really was like morbidly obese, I guess I could see some commenters saying, "you're probably okay, but you may want to see a doctor" or something like that. I guess it was just the phrasing that threw me. Nobody on AskMe is going to say "Yeah, you're fat".
posted by Afroblanco at 4:05 PM on June 24, 2011


Nobody on AskMe is going to say "Yeah, you're fat".

Again, I'm aware that you have some Platonic AskMe in your mind where this sort of thing doesn't happen, but I assure you sometimes it does happen.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:07 PM on June 24, 2011 [11 favorites]


afroblanco, I've got a pic of your hair that's totally phat!
posted by nomisxid at 6:20 PM on June 24, 2011


No, actually, in that pic, my hair is straight-up fat. As in rotund.
posted by Afroblanco at 6:33 PM on June 24, 2011


Yeah, the thigh touching one...there are a lot of people who think that means "fat" when it's totally related to genetic/fat distribution/body structure things ( and it is very important for those of us who have chafing issues to share our strategies for dealing with it because it suuuucks at any weight).
posted by sweetkid at 7:09 PM on June 24, 2011


I think most of the 'recommend some songs' questions are pretty chat-filtery. It's likely that this one failed because it asked for 'recent releases' which is quite broad. If you were to narrow it down (e. g. 'songs in a minor key', 'for a wedding reception', similar to 'this one', or 'irresistible dance-punk-wave', music for anesthesia, etc.) you could likely make it fly.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:57 PM on June 24, 2011


I've seen some pretty vague questions here that ended up being long, extremely interesting recommendations for interesting things that I've bookmarked and gone back to many times (in fact, these are the only posts I end up going back to). I wasn't interested in narrowing it down because I wasn't interested in narrowing it down. Because if I knew what I was looking for I wouldn't be asking.

Maybe take a look at those questions and consider why they were compelling? "I like this one song" is both too specific and too vague to make me think ooooh, i can totally help this person toward some awesome music.
posted by desuetude at 10:29 PM on June 24, 2011


Metafilter: the thigh touching one.
posted by herbplarfegan at 11:09 PM on June 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


sully75, I see that cortex has mentioned it, but I have a whole list of songs and artists to check out because I heard them from MeFites on GoodListnr, and there's a chat window on there, too, so you can ask for recommendations or whatever.

The trick is to a) get to the mefi room when, b) people are in there – and memebake has created a greasemonkey script that puts a simple notice at the top of the sidebar on the Metafilter front page. It will say something like GoodListnr (4) which means there are four people currently in the mefi room... or GoodListnr (0), which means that you are out of luck, but if you go there, others may show up.
posted by taz at 11:26 PM on June 24, 2011


Ralph Wiggum to Lisa Simpson: "So, do you like...stuff?"
posted by longsleeves at 11:56 PM on June 24, 2011 [2 favorites]


The problem was it was way too general. Most Music AskMis have something specific about them.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 3:37 AM on June 25, 2011


Anybody got any good songs about thighs rubbing together?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:46 AM on June 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


How about songs about talking across each other?

The guidelines don't say that questions need be honest, profound and well-written. But the 'chatfilter' part is pretty clear.

So when somebody says 'I don't understand why this is chatfilter,' I feel like there's a good chance they're really saying 'I don't agree with the site's policies about chatfilter' (or, less charitably, 'I have not read the guidelines').

Also, here's a song.
posted by box at 8:50 AM on June 25, 2011


If a question only has one "correct" answer, is it still considered answerable?

Yes.
posted by John Cohen at 12:29 PM on June 25, 2011


You know, the thigh-touching question could have ben perceived as chatfilter because of the "Does this mean I'm too fat?"

Too fat for what, exactly? To have sex, have babies, get insurance, eat a pie or foster a cat?

But the OP makes it clear, by the details in the post, that she is wondering if she is technically overweight by accepted standards, and so several people pointed her to BMI tables, which while not 100% reliable, definitely do not put her even in the range of 'overweight.'

The OP for the deleted question in the Metatalk thread really only offered one criteria: more recent songs like County Line! And follow-ups made even that criteria more vague. Like County Line, how, you mean country songs? No, don't have to be country. How recent? Oh, not too recent.

Sully75, get specific! Songs less than 3 years old. Songs with a nostalgic theme. Songs that feature weasels.* Whatever.

*Albuquerque, Weird Al.
posted by misha at 1:25 PM on June 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


If a question only has one "correct" answer, is it still considered answerable?

Of course it is. "What is this weird weed growing in my yard?" only has one correct answer. So does "What was this book I remember from my childhood?" and "Can I hand-wash this sweater?" and "What language is this written in?" Those are all perfectly cromulent AskMe questions.
posted by KathrynT at 2:09 PM on June 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


KathrynT said exactly what I was going to say.
posted by klangklangston at 9:01 PM on June 25, 2011


Also my favorite X is Los Angeles.
posted by klangklangston at 9:02 PM on June 25, 2011


I can feel a musical coming on...

Too fat too FAT (too fat too FAT)

Too fat for what?
For what are you too fat?
To eat a pie
Or to foster a cat?

Too fat too FAAAAT.....
It's a helluva CAAAAAT.....
Would you like cream with THAAAAT....
posted by obiwanwasabi at 11:29 PM on June 25, 2011


Malcolm. Definitely Malcolm.
posted by rokusan at 5:04 AM on June 27, 2011


The thighs question was just pointless because it may or may not make her too fat, but as far as AskMe is concerned, there really is no such thing as too fat because everyone is special and perfect in their own way.
posted by smackfu at 6:48 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


I appreciate the more specific questions that people have suggested, but my question was quite honestly: what music would the members of mefi like to recommend to me right now, regardless of genre. I was specifically looking for the answer to an unspecific question. Seems legitimate to me but I don't make the rules. Life goes on...
posted by sully75 at 8:00 PM on June 27, 2011


This seems pretty legitimate to me too, will it be killed before it lives:
http://ask.metafilter.com/189373/Please-suggest-some-good-oral-histories
posted by sully75 at 8:02 PM on June 27, 2011


will it be killed before it lives

No, it won't.

I understand that you don't understand the distinction between "good oral histories of any kind" and "good music of any kind" but there is one. If I can clarify anything, please let me know.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2011


"I don't make the rules. Life goes on..."
posted by sully75 at 11:00 PM on June 27

I love that exactly two minutes after you post this you find something else to add.
posted by longsleeves at 10:55 PM on June 27, 2011


Dear AskMe

I like backrubs what kind of backrubs do you like I'll go first I like backrubs
posted by klangklangston at 11:07 PM on June 27, 2011


Also my favorite X is Los Angeles.

The Aussie punk/pub rock X is good too.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:35 PM on June 27, 2011


I understand that you don't understand the distinction between "good oral histories of any kind" and "good music of any kind" but there is one. If I can clarify anything, please let me know.

Ha! At the end of the day, it's just an arbitrary distinction. There's nothing to understand, really. The mods just "know it when they see it". It's kind of a bummer in AskMe though because you have to wait a week to try again.
posted by smackfu at 7:09 AM on June 28, 2011


It's impossible to get away from the fuzziness between Definitely Chatfilter and Definitely Not Chatfilter because we're dealing with a continuum, it's the sorites paradox all over again. We'll generally err on the side of generosity when there's something to work with, but it's a given that it has to come down to a judgement call sometimes since there's no sane way to codify it unambiguously.

But in any case, the difference in kind between "here is a very specific literary niche" and "here is a general popular medium" should, in fact, be pretty reasonable to identify. If it's not, then, yes, that may cost you a week. Losing a week on a generic "recommend some music, any music" type question is probably frustrating but it's not exactly a time sensitive issue or one with no other recourse so on the balance that's frustration to just live with and learn from.

"No questions using the consonant I'm thinking of right now" would be an arbitrary distinction. "Try to have any sort of specificity to your question" is a guideline, and one that people generally speaking do a pretty solid job of abiding.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:25 AM on June 28, 2011


OK, not arbitrary. I just mean, it's a line placed wherever the mods feel it needs to be placed, and that might disagree with where any particular poster feels like that line should be, and that's the brakes.
posted by smackfu at 7:37 AM on June 28, 2011


How about questions like "What should I see/do in XXXXville?"
posted by JJ86 at 9:55 AM on June 28, 2011


When they provide some context along the lines of when they'll be in town, what they're interested in doing/seeing, what logistical constraints they have, that sort of thing: totally unimpeachably fine.

Something as unspecific as "What's in Austin?" without any kind of guidance would be less good, but I can't recall seeing much of that; folks seem to do a decent job with those of giving some indication of why they're asking, of what they're trying to accomplish.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:06 AM on June 28, 2011


How about questions like "Please help me name my XXXX?"
posted by box at 10:06 AM on June 28, 2011


Similar deal, maybe, where "It's a blog about knitting" or "He's a black Labradoodle" or whatever provides the context, and where people who ask these kinds of question generally include that kind of stuff, and so it works better in practice than on paper. Maybe.
posted by box at 10:09 AM on June 28, 2011


How about questions like "Please help me name my XXXX?"

I personally think that most of those (specifically where XXXX is an animal rather than e.g. a biz name where punny/elegant branding comes into play) are the dumbest thing, and they continue to persist on the site mostly out of tradition, like CAPS LOCK DAY threads and the word "eponysterical". Excising them by fiat from the face of the green would be some bloody goddam reckoning, though, so I prefer not to think about it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:13 AM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


How about questions like "Please help me name my XXXX?"

Yep, the mods pretty much uniformly dislike them, but they're here to stay. Similar with mixtape threads. Some are more challenging [i.e. require some sort of knowledge of what is being asked for and possibly the field being asked about] but many of them seem to be "Need a mixtape for cleaning my kitchen. It is medium-clean already but my parents are coming." types of things. Since there is no right answer, these list-making questions seem chatty to me, but if we deleted them it would just be out of spite. We've been very consistent about them however. If you're asking people for a list, you sort of need to give a little bit of information about your own likes/dislikes and not just "Tell me what *you* like, anything goes!"
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:53 AM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Please help me name my XXXX. Where XXXX is an anatomical feature, if you catch my meaning. I used to call him Sméagol (Slinker! Stinker! Skulking fellow! Her Sneak! Gobbler with the flapping hands! My... Preciousss!), but now that everybody knows about LOTR, I want to change things up. [Much, Much More Inside]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:59 AM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Please help me name my XXXX.

Photo please.
posted by longsleeves at 12:32 PM on June 28, 2011


Please help me name my XXXX.

Yaaaaay! Twins!
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:48 PM on June 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


I don't think I'm going to get the reasoning for this one, or agree with it. That said, I've gotten some pretty amazing insite (tough love) from this site about some pretty personal stuff, and some generally good advice. I really appreciate the community and appreciate the work the mods do. So thanks for your previous consideration.
posted by sully75 at 10:49 PM on June 29, 2011


« Older Am I my Brother's Asker?   |   I would thank you everyone for making this... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments