Why the snark, MetaFilter? February 3, 2012 11:29 PM Subscribe
What's the philosophy on flagging or deleting comments that derail a discussion on Metafilter?
So I'm reading this post, and there's some good discussion happening regarding the actual post , but there are also comments like this, this, this, or this, which are nothing more than snarky complaints about reddit which have nothing to do with the actual submission. I'm wondering why these types of comments aren't actively discouraged or deleted.
Now, I've been a reddit user much longer than I've been a MeFi user, so maybe I'm just sensitive, but I find this happens with submissions to other topics that I enjoy (I mean, the comment "Is this something I would have to _______ to understand?" has become a joke response on MeFi), or other topics that certain users find to be below their tastes. These types of comments make for a really crappy experience, and are the reason it took me so long to finally make a MetaFilter account; anytime I saw something like that, I would just roll my eyes and move on to a different site. I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort. I mean, if that's not your thing, why are you commenting just to derail the discussion for everyone else?
If not mod action, then maybe (and pretty unfortunately), user shaming (like this) will convince people to add something valuable to the discussion.
I'm sure this is well-trodden territory on MetaTalk, so maybe someone can guide me to a discussion where this type of thing is discussed.
So I'm reading this post, and there's some good discussion happening regarding the actual post , but there are also comments like this, this, this, or this, which are nothing more than snarky complaints about reddit which have nothing to do with the actual submission. I'm wondering why these types of comments aren't actively discouraged or deleted.
Now, I've been a reddit user much longer than I've been a MeFi user, so maybe I'm just sensitive, but I find this happens with submissions to other topics that I enjoy (I mean, the comment "Is this something I would have to _______ to understand?" has become a joke response on MeFi), or other topics that certain users find to be below their tastes. These types of comments make for a really crappy experience, and are the reason it took me so long to finally make a MetaFilter account; anytime I saw something like that, I would just roll my eyes and move on to a different site. I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort. I mean, if that's not your thing, why are you commenting just to derail the discussion for everyone else?
If not mod action, then maybe (and pretty unfortunately), user shaming (like this) will convince people to add something valuable to the discussion.
I'm sure this is well-trodden territory on MetaTalk, so maybe someone can guide me to a discussion where this type of thing is discussed.
The philosophy is: flag it and move on. When you flag it, it tells the mods to take a look at something. When you move on, you don't inadvertently decrease the utility of deleting a given comment by entrenching it in the thread with your own commentary. To the best of my knowledge, favorites do not impact decisions to delete or not delete, but if a crappy comment is the centerpiece of a large tangent, that's going to be more of a consideration than if it's just sitting there by its lonesome.
As it happens, the first comment you linked to was deleted, so, yeah, mod action. Welcome to MetaFilter.
posted by Errant at 11:48 PM on February 3, 2012 [5 favorites]
As it happens, the first comment you linked to was deleted, so, yeah, mod action. Welcome to MetaFilter.
posted by Errant at 11:48 PM on February 3, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yes, this is a problem, and yes, absolutely we'd prefer that people flag the post or just move on to something else, and we have been stepping up efforts to nix early threadshitting or Meta-type comments. For whatever reason, certain sites cause more angst (and thus more deraillery) than others, and Reddit is very high on that list, and it's sort of a pain for us because many people hate Reddit posts on MeFi, and many people love them, so there's pretty much always a clash about it.
I deleted a couple of comments and left a note there inviting people who want to discuss this to come here. This kind of post is pretty much one that should just come with a pre-made Metatalk thread, really. To me it's sort of just "let's watch Reddit being all angry at this guy, and this guy's a celebrity, so woo," so I personally feel like it's a very borderline post anyway, and I'd actually like it a lot if this could turn into a wider (civil!) conversation about what sort of Reddit links are good posts for Metafilter. I feel like the ones that showcase somebody who's done/made something really cool that grew out of a Reddit thread or Redditors who have combined to do something groovy are interesting and good posts, and dramarama ones really aren't, unless they somehow address issues of larger importance in an enlightening way.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:14 AM on February 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
I deleted a couple of comments and left a note there inviting people who want to discuss this to come here. This kind of post is pretty much one that should just come with a pre-made Metatalk thread, really. To me it's sort of just "let's watch Reddit being all angry at this guy, and this guy's a celebrity, so woo," so I personally feel like it's a very borderline post anyway, and I'd actually like it a lot if this could turn into a wider (civil!) conversation about what sort of Reddit links are good posts for Metafilter. I feel like the ones that showcase somebody who's done/made something really cool that grew out of a Reddit thread or Redditors who have combined to do something groovy are interesting and good posts, and dramarama ones really aren't, unless they somehow address issues of larger importance in an enlightening way.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:14 AM on February 4, 2012 [6 favorites]
The thing I've observed about Metafilter is that outright insults are usually deleted immediately but that backhanded comments usually stick around, hence the sometimes catty environment. I think the mods and users have made a greater effort to prevent threadshitting--but it's a work in progress.
For the record, I love Reddit. A couple of us posted to Mefi about it when it was initially getting big and we were shot down by dozens of haters. *shrugs* Now I see links and references to Reddit posted routinely on Metafilter. *shrugs again*
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:29 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
For the record, I love Reddit. A couple of us posted to Mefi about it when it was initially getting big and we were shot down by dozens of haters. *shrugs* Now I see links and references to Reddit posted routinely on Metafilter. *shrugs again*
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:29 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's the philosophy on flagging or deleting comments that derail a discussion on Metafilter?
FIAMO.
That said: WTF is wrong with the last two comments you've linked?
posted by pompomtom at 1:21 AM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
FIAMO.
That said: WTF is wrong with the last two comments you've linked?
posted by pompomtom at 1:21 AM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
i shouldn't have left my comment, but i still think it's a shitty post and should have been axed. reddit crying and macho chest bumping about a celebrity being dumb doesn't seem like a great thing to bring over here.
posted by nadawi at 1:29 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 1:29 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was tired of hearing too much about Digg back in the day and I'm tired of hearing too much about reddit now. A year or three from now, it'll be whatever ends up replacing reddit.
And we'll still be here.
By the way, that was a fucking shocker having a comment deleted, one that was very mild indeed, for me. Turns out I don't like it any more when it's me than I do when it happens to other people.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:22 AM on February 4, 2012
And we'll still be here.
By the way, that was a fucking shocker having a comment deleted, one that was very mild indeed, for me. Turns out I don't like it any more when it's me than I do when it happens to other people.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:22 AM on February 4, 2012
That said: WTF is wrong with the last two comments you've linked?
Inappropriate levels of reverence for the Reddit?
posted by dumbland at 3:56 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Inappropriate levels of reverence for the Reddit?
posted by dumbland at 3:56 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort.
We've had a lot of MeTa conversations about favorites and what they mean/don't mean and how people use them/don't use them and adore them/loathe them. Without rehashing those monster threads, if you haven't been here long you might not know that you can go into 'preferences' and completely turn favorites off or view them in a none/some/lots kind of way. Some people use those options to get closer to their optimal MetaFilter experience. Doowutchyalike, and welcome.
posted by mintcake! at 4:47 AM on February 4, 2012
We've had a lot of MeTa conversations about favorites and what they mean/don't mean and how people use them/don't use them and adore them/loathe them. Without rehashing those monster threads, if you haven't been here long you might not know that you can go into 'preferences' and completely turn favorites off or view them in a none/some/lots kind of way. Some people use those options to get closer to their optimal MetaFilter experience. Doowutchyalike, and welcome.
posted by mintcake! at 4:47 AM on February 4, 2012
"Derail" usually means "comments I don't like" and if you can't skip a half inch of vertical space to read on to the next one, don't appoint yourself the official hall monitor and tell other people what they can and can't say.
posted by spitbull at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
reddit crying and macho chest bumping about a celebrity being dumb doesn't seem like a great thing to bring over here.
It's only people who hate reddit that have made this about reddit (full disclosure - I find reddit confusing, and I don't use it.)
This post is about a celebrity whiffing on a chance to actually make a connection with fans, basically by not understanding the new dynamic that the Internet has created. It's a tale as old as time, and not reddit dependent and would have played out similarly on, say, Twitter or some other medium that facilitates dialogue. It's only that it happened to occur on such a divisive website that it turned into the buffoon snark comment turd amateur hour.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 5:22 AM on February 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's only people who hate reddit that have made this about reddit (full disclosure - I find reddit confusing, and I don't use it.)
This post is about a celebrity whiffing on a chance to actually make a connection with fans, basically by not understanding the new dynamic that the Internet has created. It's a tale as old as time, and not reddit dependent and would have played out similarly on, say, Twitter or some other medium that facilitates dialogue. It's only that it happened to occur on such a divisive website that it turned into the buffoon snark comment turd amateur hour.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 5:22 AM on February 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
Don't feel bad about being sensitive.
After reading all the cranky comments in my mac-and-cheese thread, I feel like having a good cry.
posted by Trurl at 7:04 AM on February 4, 2012
After reading all the cranky comments in my mac-and-cheese thread, I feel like having a good cry.
posted by Trurl at 7:04 AM on February 4, 2012
My comment was something like, reddit is a site I want to like, but can't. And it got removed. Huh.
I clicked the link, read some content, and made the comment. It's still valid. I guess I could have expounded on why this is, but redditors are being redditors is a lot like linking to the sunrise to me.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:16 AM on February 4, 2012
I clicked the link, read some content, and made the comment. It's still valid. I guess I could have expounded on why this is, but redditors are being redditors is a lot like linking to the sunrise to me.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:16 AM on February 4, 2012
What's the philosophy on flagging or deleting comments that derail a discussion on Metafilter?
Like folks have said, the core philosophy is "flag it and move on"; by flagging you help us have a better chance of promptly seeing deraily stuff and taking action on it (deleting and/or leaving a rerailing note in the thread); by moving on instead of responding to the stuff you're flagging, you make it easier to excise derails without having to either excise additional comments responding to it or leaving weird continuity gaps with responses-to-missing-comments in the thread. Moving on also makes it less likely that the derail will continue further, since without fuel fires go out on their on.
Moving on doesn't have to mean leaving the thread; you can just make a point of discussing what's actually interesting or of value about the topic while ignoring the derail stuff, and that's what I tend to do if I have a thread I care about that I want to help go in a useful direction. Have the conversation you want to be having, basically.
I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort.
If you think something needs flagging, go ahead and flag it. As always it's a thing where one or more of us will look at it and try to decided what to do, but a lot of favorites on something is not deletion insurance. Sometimes something that merits deleting also appeals to folks in a way that tends to pick up favorites too. People rubberneck at car crashes and watch Jerry Springer and laugh at funerals; the world's a complicated place.
I'm wondering why these types of comments aren't actively discouraged or deleted.
People have mixed feelings, and how strongly people feel about any given subject is distributed pretty unevenly across the userbase, so I think it's always going to be the case that even with things going as smoothly as they can we'll have folks feeling like stuff that should have been nixed wasn't and vice versa, and all I can say is that I sympathize with your frustration there.
That said, we do try to discourage stuff that's just reflexive "oh blarg not x again" stuff in threads, and do delete some of it. Again, sort of a compromise position where not everyone will agree it's enough and not everyone will agree with what we actually do remove, but our general desire is to see threads be more for discussion of whatever is interesting about the post and less about metadiscussion about what people don't like about it having been posted or what the site on the other end of the link is, etc; that latter stuff should come to Metatalk immediately if people want to have that conversation.
The specific case of reddit is sort of a weird recurring one; some folks seem to feel very strongly that reddit sux and should stay off Metafilter; some other folks seem to feel just as strongly that Metafilter is a bunch of reddit haters and content thieves; both seem to show up sometimes in any thread related somehow to reddit and vent their spleen a bit, and we actually do often delete that stuff when we see it because, ffs, Metatalk is ready and waiting if you really need to have a conversation about the relationship between the two sites.
In this case we got a post that wasn't just tangentially related to reddit or linking something that happened to be on reddit but was in fact about reddit's reaction to something happening on that site, so it's harder to remove the metacommentary-about-reddit stuff cleanly. Even at that, I thought it was annoying and overly much, but we ended up having kind of spotty coverage even for a Friday night (I was distracted with some real life stuff, restless_nomad has been sick, some other threads and Metatalk in general has been sucking up a lot of mod eyeballs, etc) and so we didn't get much attention on the thread when it was unspooling. I'm glad taz was able to go back and herd it a little more, though it's always tricky to do that as effectively after the fact when things have sort of settled into a continuity (however obnoxious) with folks continuing to react to the stuff earlier in the thread and all that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:45 AM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Like folks have said, the core philosophy is "flag it and move on"; by flagging you help us have a better chance of promptly seeing deraily stuff and taking action on it (deleting and/or leaving a rerailing note in the thread); by moving on instead of responding to the stuff you're flagging, you make it easier to excise derails without having to either excise additional comments responding to it or leaving weird continuity gaps with responses-to-missing-comments in the thread. Moving on also makes it less likely that the derail will continue further, since without fuel fires go out on their on.
Moving on doesn't have to mean leaving the thread; you can just make a point of discussing what's actually interesting or of value about the topic while ignoring the derail stuff, and that's what I tend to do if I have a thread I care about that I want to help go in a useful direction. Have the conversation you want to be having, basically.
I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort.
If you think something needs flagging, go ahead and flag it. As always it's a thing where one or more of us will look at it and try to decided what to do, but a lot of favorites on something is not deletion insurance. Sometimes something that merits deleting also appeals to folks in a way that tends to pick up favorites too. People rubberneck at car crashes and watch Jerry Springer and laugh at funerals; the world's a complicated place.
I'm wondering why these types of comments aren't actively discouraged or deleted.
People have mixed feelings, and how strongly people feel about any given subject is distributed pretty unevenly across the userbase, so I think it's always going to be the case that even with things going as smoothly as they can we'll have folks feeling like stuff that should have been nixed wasn't and vice versa, and all I can say is that I sympathize with your frustration there.
That said, we do try to discourage stuff that's just reflexive "oh blarg not x again" stuff in threads, and do delete some of it. Again, sort of a compromise position where not everyone will agree it's enough and not everyone will agree with what we actually do remove, but our general desire is to see threads be more for discussion of whatever is interesting about the post and less about metadiscussion about what people don't like about it having been posted or what the site on the other end of the link is, etc; that latter stuff should come to Metatalk immediately if people want to have that conversation.
The specific case of reddit is sort of a weird recurring one; some folks seem to feel very strongly that reddit sux and should stay off Metafilter; some other folks seem to feel just as strongly that Metafilter is a bunch of reddit haters and content thieves; both seem to show up sometimes in any thread related somehow to reddit and vent their spleen a bit, and we actually do often delete that stuff when we see it because, ffs, Metatalk is ready and waiting if you really need to have a conversation about the relationship between the two sites.
In this case we got a post that wasn't just tangentially related to reddit or linking something that happened to be on reddit but was in fact about reddit's reaction to something happening on that site, so it's harder to remove the metacommentary-about-reddit stuff cleanly. Even at that, I thought it was annoying and overly much, but we ended up having kind of spotty coverage even for a Friday night (I was distracted with some real life stuff, restless_nomad has been sick, some other threads and Metatalk in general has been sucking up a lot of mod eyeballs, etc) and so we didn't get much attention on the thread when it was unspooling. I'm glad taz was able to go back and herd it a little more, though it's always tricky to do that as effectively after the fact when things have sort of settled into a continuity (however obnoxious) with folks continuing to react to the stuff earlier in the thread and all that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:45 AM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
So how often do you guys ever make a judgement call and leave something up despite it getting lots of flags? I can remember one instance where a lot of people must have misinterpreted a comment I wrote, and it got deleted, and when I asked Jess about it, she said that, yeah, she understood what I meant, but it got a lot of flags, so it got axed.
posted by crunchland at 7:54 AM on February 4, 2012
posted by crunchland at 7:54 AM on February 4, 2012
Not super often, not never. I'd say most of the time when something has a pretty significant pile of flags it resonates pretty clearly with our sensibilities about what should go vs. what should stay. The cases where there's a bunch of flags and we're all "wtf are people reacting to" are a lot less common, and we deal with those as they come up, usually with a lot of mod conversation over email and sometimes with conversation in context itself to try and understand what's up.
There's also timing and context issues that come into play; something getting flagged a whole lot really quickly is a different beast in a lot of ways than something that slowly accrues a lot of flags over 24 hours; something that's gotten flagged a lot but also responded to in a way that has weaved it intractably into a totally-going-fine-now conversation is different from something folks have flagged and then ignored.
and when I asked Jess about it, she said that, yeah, she understood what I meant, but it got a lot of flags, so it got axed.
There's definitely situations where we feel like we can see what someone was going for but can also see why people are reacting badly to it, yeah. Sometimes intent doesn't end up jibing with execution or perception, and that's a tricky spot because we don't want people to feel like they're in the doghouse over something that came from good intentions but we also don't want to ignore an understandable collective critical reaction to something just because we know or suspect the intentions were good.
That's why we try to be really clear about not seeing deletions in general as some sort of black mark against the poster/commenter, and try to encourage folks who may have bobbled on the execution of or gotten unlucky on the reception of something that ends up deleted to go ahead and reframe and have a do-over if they like.
There's obviously stuff that's more in "do not do that, period" territory, but that's not stuff that ends up in the odd grey zone where we see lots of flags on something that doesn't seem so flagworthy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
There's also timing and context issues that come into play; something getting flagged a whole lot really quickly is a different beast in a lot of ways than something that slowly accrues a lot of flags over 24 hours; something that's gotten flagged a lot but also responded to in a way that has weaved it intractably into a totally-going-fine-now conversation is different from something folks have flagged and then ignored.
and when I asked Jess about it, she said that, yeah, she understood what I meant, but it got a lot of flags, so it got axed.
There's definitely situations where we feel like we can see what someone was going for but can also see why people are reacting badly to it, yeah. Sometimes intent doesn't end up jibing with execution or perception, and that's a tricky spot because we don't want people to feel like they're in the doghouse over something that came from good intentions but we also don't want to ignore an understandable collective critical reaction to something just because we know or suspect the intentions were good.
That's why we try to be really clear about not seeing deletions in general as some sort of black mark against the poster/commenter, and try to encourage folks who may have bobbled on the execution of or gotten unlucky on the reception of something that ends up deleted to go ahead and reframe and have a do-over if they like.
There's obviously stuff that's more in "do not do that, period" territory, but that's not stuff that ends up in the odd grey zone where we see lots of flags on something that doesn't seem so flagworthy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Derail" usually means "comments I don't like" and if you can't skip a half inch of vertical space to read on to the next one, don't appoint yourself the official hall monitor and tell other people what they can and can't say.
In action, it means a lot of things. Often that people are arguing about some side topic at the expense of the actual topic of the thread. We'll take a look at these and see if anything needs doing. If you think the purpose of the moderation of this site is to act like "hall monitors" that's your business, but the moderation and flagging system is an ingrained and mostly functional part of the site for most people.
So how often do you guys ever make a judgement call and leave something up despite it getting lots of flags?
It ebbs and flows. You'll notice that last week there were a few "Why didn't you delete this?" MeTa threads over things we didn't delete. If things are being debated in-thread and there are a pile of replies trying to get something back on topic in response to some weird trollish comment, we may leave it in and let the community basically self-correct. If it's just a huge turd in the thread that everyone can't help but step in and comment on, we'll axe it. Almost always a lot of flags [in AskMe, this is usually more than a few, in MeFi it varies] is cause for some mod action, though lately we've preferred to leave the comment and also leave a note telling people to come over here if it's turning into something that is problematic for a thread.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:40 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
And yeah what cortex said, there's often a time when we understand what's going on but whatever someone said is just becoming some sticking point. Sometimes it's a joke that didn't work [happens a lot with South Park references and the like] sometimes it's a word that someone didn't know was touchy, sometimes it's a misread in a touchy thread. If that's the case we'll sometimes drop people a note and explain what we see the problem as and see if they can rewrite with whatever the deal is. Sometimes the community just reacts to things and we need to make a judgment call as to whether even we don't agree, we can sort of see what the issue is and sometimes we don't agree and leave the comment and leave a note or not.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:43 AM on February 4, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:43 AM on February 4, 2012
I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort.
I just want to reiterate that you can turn favorite counts off in your profile. It makes it a lot easier to focus on what people are saying rather than the community opinion of it.
While we're on to topic it would be interesting to know what percentage of active users have that feature turned on.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:55 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just want to reiterate that you can turn favorite counts off in your profile. It makes it a lot easier to focus on what people are saying rather than the community opinion of it.
While we're on to topic it would be interesting to know what percentage of active users have that feature turned on.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:55 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
This post is about a celebrity whiffing on a chance to actually make a connection with fans, basically by not understanding the new dynamic that the Internet has created. It's a tale as old as time
Kind of Beauty and the beasts, even.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Kind of Beauty and the beasts, even.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, marcusesses, it seems like the solution here is turning your favorites count off and a healthy dose of FIAMO. It sucks sometimes, but just keep in mind that value of a comment certainly isn't denoted by how many favorites it gets; and if it's a comment that should be deleted, the mods won't blink before deleting it even if it has ten thousand favorites. They are cool that way.
posted by koeselitz at 10:42 AM on February 4, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 10:42 AM on February 4, 2012
I was tired of hearing too much about Digg back in the day and I'm tired of hearing too much about reddit now. A year or three from now, it'll be whatever ends up replacing reddit.
And we'll still be here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:22 AM on February 4
Yeah. Still snob-snarking about whatever ends up replacing reddit.
If I had to bet which of the two sites would last longer I wouldn't be so damned sure it will be this one.
posted by Decani at 10:45 AM on February 4, 2012
And we'll still be here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:22 AM on February 4
Yeah. Still snob-snarking about whatever ends up replacing reddit.
If I had to bet which of the two sites would last longer I wouldn't be so damned sure it will be this one.
posted by Decani at 10:45 AM on February 4, 2012
Trurl: " After reading all the cranky comments in my mac-and-cheese thread, I feel like having a good cry."
I actually accidentally flagged that last night (sensitive touchscreen phone + big fingers = oops) and felt horrible about it. I woke up this morning hoping none of the mods had spiked it.
But the comments weren't particularly bad, I thought. Other than the smug sarcasm, what bothered you about 'em?
posted by zarq at 11:37 AM on February 4, 2012
I actually accidentally flagged that last night (sensitive touchscreen phone + big fingers = oops) and felt horrible about it. I woke up this morning hoping none of the mods had spiked it.
But the comments weren't particularly bad, I thought. Other than the smug sarcasm, what bothered you about 'em?
posted by zarq at 11:37 AM on February 4, 2012
What's the philosophy on flagging or deleting comments that derail a discussion on Metafilter?
I don't flag threadshitting any more. But it's tough because when threadshitting gets deleted, I get a passive-aggressive Metatalk post started against me in which I get accused of using the flag system to my "advantage", whatever that stupidity means, even though I think flagging has shown itself to be functionally useless and therefore I don't do it, really. Sorry if that sounds bitter, just my personal experience with all of that. So flag if you want, but expect problems if you do, and more problems even if you don't.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:10 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't flag threadshitting any more. But it's tough because when threadshitting gets deleted, I get a passive-aggressive Metatalk post started against me in which I get accused of using the flag system to my "advantage", whatever that stupidity means, even though I think flagging has shown itself to be functionally useless and therefore I don't do it, really. Sorry if that sounds bitter, just my personal experience with all of that. So flag if you want, but expect problems if you do, and more problems even if you don't.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:10 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I could do without the adoration of the reddit.
posted by crunchland at 12:12 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by crunchland at 12:12 PM on February 4, 2012
Having a general opinion about a gigantic site like reddit just makes you look silly. If you find something interesting there, by all means make a post about it on MetaFilter. And if you don't like the post, complain about the content, not the via.
posted by Dumsnill at 12:18 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by Dumsnill at 12:18 PM on February 4, 2012
After seeing the way they treated MrMoonPie and his wife, I think those reddit folks are despicable. This comment took me a while to type because I couldn't stop making angry graspy motions with my hands. Fuck them.
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:25 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:25 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wish people were less concerned with deleting more comments and more concerned with, like, getting on with their lives. Metafilter has always been relatively lightly moderated (by moderated web standards). I don't get the "Hey, this place is great! Now if only we could change it!" impulse.
posted by Justinian at 12:27 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 12:27 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
I woke up this morning hoping none of the mods had spiked it.
A single flag on a comment in a MeFi thread is not enough, absent any other problems, to get a comment deleted. So don't worry.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:31 PM on February 4, 2012
A single flag on a comment in a MeFi thread is not enough, absent any other problems, to get a comment deleted. So don't worry.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:31 PM on February 4, 2012
That post was about how Harrelson failed to understand the internet audience
that post was about harrelson failing to understand the reddit audience and them all slapping themselves on their backs afterwards. as much as they'd like to have us believe otherwise, reddit isn't the entire internet.
posted by nadawi at 12:35 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
that post was about harrelson failing to understand the reddit audience and them all slapping themselves on their backs afterwards. as much as they'd like to have us believe otherwise, reddit isn't the entire internet.
posted by nadawi at 12:35 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
There's also a particular sort of post that tends to get a particular sort of reaction which is the "This is how this other community reacted to something" type of post. So there is the thing--a YouTube video, a political event, a LiveJournal post--but the real thing that is happening/noteworthy is the fact that HuffPo/Reddit/Digg/Jezebel/TPMCafe/Kos LOST THEIR MINDS about it and the actual substance of the post is the comments on the other website.
So really the main thrust of why the post is interesting is the other comments. And, well, that's a weird sort of thing to try to have a discussion about because of course you're going to be picking things out of context and overgeneralizing based on what you feel about the site or whose comments got upvoted or favorited or whatever. And it leads itself to lazy snark the same way "Hey they passed a stupid law in Alabama/Ohio/North Dakota/Vermont" threads tend towards the HURFDURF OTHER STATEZ comments.
So the backlash about this is that people think that MeFi has something against Reddit or HuffPo or Gawker sites or whatever, but realistically it's just that putting a magnifying glass on other communities, without knowing whatever the general culture is there [or maybe you know it and you don't like it] is just sort of not great discussion, from my vantage point. People who really like those other sites are encouraged to spend time there and/or try to explain why they like them to people who may not feel the same way. People who dislike them are encouraged to avoid those threads, or involve themselves in actual discussions about the culture and the content, not just make lazy swipes at other people from a few choice peeks at the way they talk about things.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:56 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
So really the main thrust of why the post is interesting is the other comments. And, well, that's a weird sort of thing to try to have a discussion about because of course you're going to be picking things out of context and overgeneralizing based on what you feel about the site or whose comments got upvoted or favorited or whatever. And it leads itself to lazy snark the same way "Hey they passed a stupid law in Alabama/Ohio/North Dakota/Vermont" threads tend towards the HURFDURF OTHER STATEZ comments.
So the backlash about this is that people think that MeFi has something against Reddit or HuffPo or Gawker sites or whatever, but realistically it's just that putting a magnifying glass on other communities, without knowing whatever the general culture is there [or maybe you know it and you don't like it] is just sort of not great discussion, from my vantage point. People who really like those other sites are encouraged to spend time there and/or try to explain why they like them to people who may not feel the same way. People who dislike them are encouraged to avoid those threads, or involve themselves in actual discussions about the culture and the content, not just make lazy swipes at other people from a few choice peeks at the way they talk about things.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:56 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm sure I could flag these types of comments, but when they have 26 favorites, it makes it look like it adds something positive to the discussion, when it does nothing of the sort.
Consider the size of the crowd involved.
Last I heard, there were about twenty thousand active users of this site. That is, people who post and comment every day or every few days. The number of people who lurk and favorite occasionally is probably some multiple of 20,000.
In that group of twenty thousand, I'm sure you can find at least 26 people who don't see eye to eye with you on any given issue. Hell, you could probably find a greater number of people you have not the first thing in common with, people so different from you in outlook and temperament and life experience that you probably couldn't scare up more than five minutes' worth of conversation between the two of you.
And that's how a comment you think is completely out of line gets 26 favorites.
posted by jason's_planet at 1:51 PM on February 4, 2012
Consider the size of the crowd involved.
Last I heard, there were about twenty thousand active users of this site. That is, people who post and comment every day or every few days. The number of people who lurk and favorite occasionally is probably some multiple of 20,000.
In that group of twenty thousand, I'm sure you can find at least 26 people who don't see eye to eye with you on any given issue. Hell, you could probably find a greater number of people you have not the first thing in common with, people so different from you in outlook and temperament and life experience that you probably couldn't scare up more than five minutes' worth of conversation between the two of you.
And that's how a comment you think is completely out of line gets 26 favorites.
posted by jason's_planet at 1:51 PM on February 4, 2012
<
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:20 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:20 PM on February 4, 2012
Also consider that the people who use favorites to be a kind of Good Job karma are clearly dimwits--how else would I have ended up with 10 thousand of the things?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:52 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:52 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah. Still snob-snarking about whatever ends up replacing reddit.
Oh, boo fucking hoo. Big bad chicken said mean words again about my cohort.
Digg was a sophomoric cesspool, reddit is a sophomoric cesspool (and what's worse, an unusable, eye-searingly ugly one), and Metafilter is, thank fuck, still slightly less so.
Eschewing the aggressively crappy is not the same thing as being a snob, and trying to keep it at bay is not snark.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:43 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, boo fucking hoo. Big bad chicken said mean words again about my cohort.
Digg was a sophomoric cesspool, reddit is a sophomoric cesspool (and what's worse, an unusable, eye-searingly ugly one), and Metafilter is, thank fuck, still slightly less so.
Eschewing the aggressively crappy is not the same thing as being a snob, and trying to keep it at bay is not snark.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:43 PM on February 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, boo fucking hoo. Big bad chicken said mean words again about my cohort.
Digg was a sophomoric cesspool, reddit is a sophomoric cesspool (and what's worse, an unusable, eye-searingly ugly one), and Metafilter is, thank fuck, still slightly less so.
Oh, I don't know...comments like this make me feel they're about dead even!
posted by The ____ of Justice at 4:02 PM on February 4, 2012
Digg was a sophomoric cesspool, reddit is a sophomoric cesspool (and what's worse, an unusable, eye-searingly ugly one), and Metafilter is, thank fuck, still slightly less so.
Oh, I don't know...comments like this make me feel they're about dead even!
posted by The ____ of Justice at 4:02 PM on February 4, 2012
Not yet. Not quite yet.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:04 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:04 PM on February 4, 2012
Look, you like the reddit, more power to you. Go, enjoy, frolic in the tall grass and threaded comments like a happy puppy. I'm all about people enjoying themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
All I would prefer is that it show up less around here. I know that hope is in vain, because of the way of these things. But comments like some of the ones in the original thread responding to a number of other comments (not mine) complaining about Excess Reddit, that said, in effect, 'shut up and suck it down; we reddit people are legion', well: those rub me the wrong way.
I'll no more shut up about it, if I'm in a mood to be exercised about it, than I will about anything else that I feel hurts this community right here that I so love.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:13 PM on February 4, 2012
All I would prefer is that it show up less around here. I know that hope is in vain, because of the way of these things. But comments like some of the ones in the original thread responding to a number of other comments (not mine) complaining about Excess Reddit, that said, in effect, 'shut up and suck it down; we reddit people are legion', well: those rub me the wrong way.
I'll no more shut up about it, if I'm in a mood to be exercised about it, than I will about anything else that I feel hurts this community right here that I so love.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:13 PM on February 4, 2012
But comments like some of the ones in the original thread responding to a number of other comments (not mine) complaining about Excess Reddit, that said, in effect, 'shut up and suck it down; we reddit people are legion', well: those rub me the wrong way.
I scanned the comments and don't see what you're referring to.
Which ones are saying to shut up and suck it down?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 4:28 PM on February 4, 2012
I scanned the comments and don't see what you're referring to.
Which ones are saying to shut up and suck it down?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 4:28 PM on February 4, 2012
The ones that taz deleted wholesale, yesterday.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:39 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:39 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
(STAGE WHISPERS) I said, "while we're on to topic it would be interesting to know what percentage of active users have [favorites turned off]".
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:05 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:05 PM on February 4, 2012
I personally don't know. Maybe you should email the contact form because pb is, I think, the only one who can get that data, and this isn't a thread he'd otherwise be participating in, maybe.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:21 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:21 PM on February 4, 2012
while we're on to topic it would be interesting to know what percentage of active users have [favorites turned off]
Of members who visited within the past 30 days, 0.8% currently have hide favorites set and 0.7% use has favorites. The vast majority have the default show favorite counts set.
posted by pb (staff) at 8:05 PM on February 4, 2012
Of members who visited within the past 30 days, 0.8% currently have hide favorites set and 0.7% use has favorites. The vast majority have the default show favorite counts set.
posted by pb (staff) at 8:05 PM on February 4, 2012
We are the 1%.
posted by crunchland at 8:20 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchland at 8:20 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Woody was obviously high as fuck. He should have just followed every answer with [10], everyone would have loved him.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thanks, pb!
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:00 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:00 PM on February 4, 2012
hey, Stav, I get that you're angry about your comment being deleted, but I have no idea what you're talking about with the "deleting wholesale." These were the comments deleted:
posted by taz (staff) at 11:58 PM on February 4, 2012
i wish reddit drama could stay on reddit.and a note to come to Metatalk to complain about the post... After which you posted your comment about being tired of Reddit, and I deleted it, and you posted it here, which is the place to talk about it. I figured you just didn't see the note about the Metatalk thread.
reddit is a site I want to like, but never can.
In Rampart, what do you believe is the optimal cannon placement at the start of the round? Do you prefer to build one big enclosure or to wall off several little ones? Red or blue?
posted by taz (staff) at 11:58 PM on February 4, 2012
No, not mad at all. It's utterly minor and was a throwaway comment anyway, although, as I have made clear before, I do not much care for comment deletion in principle. For what little that's worth.
But yeah, actually looking, I see that the comments that got me very temporarily het up are actually still there. Sorry about that -- I thought they'd been binned as well, and you'd cut a wider swath than you actually did, taz. To wit and for example:
Heh. I think I actually said, in part, that the flag-it-and-moveoning was compelling me from indifference towards a more 'fuck reddit' kind of attitude (predictably, I guess, but I've been exceedingly cranky since my bulging L5 disc has started playing up again recently). 'Flag it and move on' in combination with 'if you don't like it, don't come into the thread' are, I reckon, Very Bad Things for the community.
I figured you just didn't see the note about the Metatalk thread.
That is indeed the case.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:02 AM on February 5, 2012
But yeah, actually looking, I see that the comments that got me very temporarily het up are actually still there. Sorry about that -- I thought they'd been binned as well, and you'd cut a wider swath than you actually did, taz. To wit and for example:
>It pretty clearly says in the FPP that it's about a reddit post. No one made you click this either.After which you posted your comment about being tired of Reddit
>Good grief. If I didn't want to read about rRddit on Metafilter, or participate in their drama and discussions, I'd just not click into FPPs about that topic.
Heh. I think I actually said, in part, that the flag-it-and-moveoning was compelling me from indifference towards a more 'fuck reddit' kind of attitude (predictably, I guess, but I've been exceedingly cranky since my bulging L5 disc has started playing up again recently). 'Flag it and move on' in combination with 'if you don't like it, don't come into the thread' are, I reckon, Very Bad Things for the community.
I figured you just didn't see the note about the Metatalk thread.
That is indeed the case.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:02 AM on February 5, 2012
Man, that "it's okay to not like things" video is easily the most annoying video in the entire world. Every time I watch it, it's like my parents chiding me and shaking their finger in my face.
posted by koeselitz at 7:01 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 7:01 AM on February 5, 2012
Deleting the comment: "reddit is a site I want to like, but never can." seems over-the-top because the thread is about reddit.
Maybe you are getting a little over-zealous with the censorship of any comment relating to Reddit. Maybe the reason many people think it's cool to post inane crap they saw on Reddit is because every time a MeFite voices their frustration about it, it just gets erased from existence. People probably don't realize it ticks others off as much as it does.
In other words, maybe people don't look at MetaTalk that often, and the system isn't working the way you imagine it should.
posted by victory_laser at 9:23 AM on February 10, 2012
Maybe you are getting a little over-zealous with the censorship of any comment relating to Reddit. Maybe the reason many people think it's cool to post inane crap they saw on Reddit is because every time a MeFite voices their frustration about it, it just gets erased from existence. People probably don't realize it ticks others off as much as it does.
In other words, maybe people don't look at MetaTalk that often, and the system isn't working the way you imagine it should.
posted by victory_laser at 9:23 AM on February 10, 2012
Or, just hypothetically, people have no idea what the word "censorship" means and enjoy displaying that ignorance in public.
posted by Errant at 10:05 AM on February 10, 2012
posted by Errant at 10:05 AM on February 10, 2012
547. The Archduke of the IOC shall not have a simple steed as his ceremonial mount - something far more grand is needful, thus the great mechanical lobster. It clanks and spews steam, smells of mineral oils and coalsmoke, clanking and creaking and yet elegant in it's dainty gait. Sajak skitters across the moors, lederhosen be damned as the mud splashes up from the great beast's powerful strides.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:17 AM on March 3, 2012
posted by Meatbomb at 11:17 AM on March 3, 2012
Maybe stick to one aged metatalk thread at a time?
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:26 AM on March 3, 2012
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:26 AM on March 3, 2012
10 PRINT "YOU ARE PAT SAJAK. IT IS DARK"
20 INPUT "WHAT COLOR ARE YOUR LEDERHOSEN? ", $LEDERHOSEN
30 INPUT "DO YOU LIKE LOBSTER? Y/N ", $LOBSTERPREF
40 PRINT "THERE IS MUD HERE. YOUR " $LEDERHOSEN "LEDERHOSEN ARE NOW STAINED"
50 IF $LOBSTERPREF="Y" THEN PRINT "YOUR BIB WILL NOT HELP YOU HERE, PAT."
60 IF $LOBSTERPREF="N" THEN PRINT "A LOBSTER APPEARS. HE EATS YOU. YOUR LEDERHOSEN ARE LEFT BEHIND, MR. SAJAK."
70 END
RUN
posted by not_on_display at 3:00 PM on March 3, 2012
20 INPUT "WHAT COLOR ARE YOUR LEDERHOSEN? ", $LEDERHOSEN
30 INPUT "DO YOU LIKE LOBSTER? Y/N ", $LOBSTERPREF
40 PRINT "THERE IS MUD HERE. YOUR " $LEDERHOSEN "LEDERHOSEN ARE NOW STAINED"
50 IF $LOBSTERPREF="Y" THEN PRINT "YOUR BIB WILL NOT HELP YOU HERE, PAT."
60 IF $LOBSTERPREF="N" THEN PRINT "A LOBSTER APPEARS. HE EATS YOU. YOUR LEDERHOSEN ARE LEFT BEHIND, MR. SAJAK."
70 END
RUN
posted by not_on_display at 3:00 PM on March 3, 2012
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posted by Bonzai at 11:46 PM on February 3, 2012 [3 favorites]