What does the wicked son say? "What does this drudgery mean to you?" To you and not to him. Since he excludes himself from the community, he has denied a basic principle of Judaism. You should blunt his teeth by saying to him: "It is for the sake of this that Hashem did for me when I left Egypt. For me and not for him. If he was there he would not have been redeemed."It's cold comfort, though. Because I think it's one of the uglier attitudes in religion--don't question, or you'll face the wrath of the higher power because you're setting yourself off from the community by your lack of faith. I don't know. I have thoughts.
BLESSEDposted by Joe in Australia at 9:54 PM on April 8, 2012 [44 favorites]are the moderators, blessed are they, blessed are they who gave the FAQ to the users, blessed are they. Regarding four users speaketh the FAQ: one Wise, and one Wicked, and one Simple, and one who knoweth not to use AskMe.What doth the Wise User say? How do I sign up for a MetaFilter account? And you shall instruct him in the use of Paypal, he needs to be a member for at least a week to make an Ask MetaFilter post.
What doth the Wicked User say? Have you seen this great SEO site?! And because he hath self-linked he rejects the T&C. And thou shalt disable his account and sayBecause of these things Matt Haughey did for me.Me and not for him, if the spammer had been there Matt would not have gotten out of bed.
What doth the Simple User say? Shall I DTMFA? And because we are all special snowflakes you shall listen to the particular details and respond appropriately.
And the one who doth not know how to use AskMe you shall send MeMail, saying,MetaTalk is for questions about the site; AskMe is for personal questions. You have to wait for a week before you post another question to AskMe.
How is This Haggadah Different?
There are numerous versions of the Haggadah now in print, each bringing a new perspective to the holiday of Passover.
By Sharonne Cohen
The Passover Haggadah has, for centuries, been the text through which Jews have engaged in the retelling of the Jewish exodus from Egypt. Fulfilling the injunction to "Remember this day that you came forth from Egypt" (Exodus 13:3), and to recount this story to future generations ("Ve-higadeta le-vinkha"-- "And you shall tell thy son," Exodus 13:8), Jews across the globe read the Haggadah during the Passover seder as a way of recapturing the spirit of freedom held by the Israelites following Moses out of Egypt, and celebrating the eternal notion of redemption and liberation.
The Haggadah--a collected work of blessings, prayers, and excerpts from the Bible, Mishnah, and Midrash--was not written by one particular author, and was gradually supplemented by psalms and songs. The first printed version of the Haggadah was published in Guadalajara in 1482, ten years prior to the expulsion of the Jews from Spain. By the 16th century, there were approximately 25 printed versions; 300 years later, there were more than 1,000. These Haggadot (plural of Haggadah) vary in geographical origin, denominational orientation, political and social focus, and historical emphasis.
...
The 1940s and 1950s marked the evolution of the traditional Haggadah into a text incorporating social and political realities, a process that still continues today. New Haggadot began appearing, outlining socialist, feminist, egalitarian, gay and lesbian, environmental, and other concerns. Kibbutz Haggadot (Ha-Kibbutz Ha-Artzi, Ha-Kibbutz Ha-Meuchad), produced by secular collective communities in Israel, tend to reflect the socialist--and often atheistic--views of kibbutz founders. They place more emphasis on nationalistic and seasonal elements revolving around spring, the harvest, the Exodus, peace, and the ingathering of the Jewish people in Israel. These Haggadot often abbreviate the original text, downplaying its religious message.
Scholars of the Hebrew Bible have in the last decade begun to question the historical accuracy of the Israelite sojourn in Egypt, as described in the book of Exodus. The reason for the rejection of the exodus tradition is said to be the lack of historical and archaeological evidence in Egypt. Those advancing these claims, however, are not specialists in the study of Egyptian history, culture, and archaeology. In this pioneering book, James Hoffmeier examines the most current Egyptological evidence and argues that it supports the biblical record concerning Israel in Egypt.posted by No Robots at 8:37 AM on April 9, 2012
Passover is open season on criticism of the validity of Passover, or, more broadly, the same logic applied to any religious holiday?That sounds just fine to me. What's the alternative? Serious question--what's the alternative? That there be defined periods during which it is OK to discuss the topic?
But that sort of distinction is important, I think.zarq, if there's anything for you to learn from this discussion, it's that many of us smart, educated, curious, open-minded people do not think that sort of distinction is important.
The inerrancy of Scripture excludes also any contradiction between the Bible and the certain tenets of science. It cannot be supposed that the inspired writers should agree with all the various hypotheses which scientists assume today and reject tomorrow; but the commentator will be required to harmonize the teaching of the Bible with the scientific results which rest on solid proof. This rule is clearly laid down by the Encyclical in the words of St. Augustine: "Whatever they can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures, and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so" (De Gen. ad litt., I, xxi, xli). But the commentator must also be careful "not to make rash assertions, or to assert what is not known as known" (St. Aug., in Gen. op. imperf., ix, 30). The Encyclical appeals here again to the words of the great African Doctor (St. Aug., de Gen. ad litt., II, ix, xx): "[The Holy Ghost] who spoke by them [the inspired writers], did not intend to teach men these things [i.e., the essential nature of the things of the visible universe], things in no way profitable unto salvation." The pontiff continues: "Hence they . . . described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way, the sacred writers — as the Angelic Doctor reminds us (Summa Theologiæ I.70.1 ad 3um) — 'went by what visibly appeared', or put down what God, speaking to men, signified in a way men could understand and were accustomed to." In Genesis 1:16, e.g., the sun and the moon are called two great lights; in Joshua 10:12, the sun is commanded to stand still; in Eccl., i, 5, the sun returns to its place; in Job 26:11, the firmament appears solid and brazen; in other passages the heavens are upheld by columns, and God rides on the clouds of heaven.You can read that how you like, but it's in no way fundamentalist, and leaves plenty of wiggle room for a non-literal reading of the bible.
Finally, the commentator must be prepared to deal with the seeming discrepancies between Biblical and profane history. The considerations to be kept in mind here are similar to those laid down in the preceding paragraph. First, not all statements found in profane sources can be regarded a priori as Gospel truth; some of them refer to subjects with which the writers were imperfectly acquainted, others proceed from party-feeling and national vanity, others again are based on imperfectly or only partially translated ancient documents. Secondly, the Bible does not ex professo teach profane history or chronology. These topics are treated only incidentally, in as far as they are connected with sacred subjects. Hence it would be wrong to regard Scripture as containing a complete course of history and chronology, or to consider the text of its historical portions above suspicion of corruption. Thirdly, we must keep in mind the words of St. Jerome (in Jer., xxviii, 10): "Many things in Sacred Scripture are related according to the opinion of the time in which they are said to have happened, and not according to objective truth"; and again (in Matthew 14:8): "According to the custom of Scripture, the historian relates the opinion concerning many things in accordance with the general belief at that time." Father Delattre maintains (Le Criterium à l'usage de la Nouvelle Exégèse Biblique, Liège, 1907) that according to St. Jerome the inspired writers report the public opinion prevalent at the time of the events related, not the public opinion prevalent when the narrative was written. This distinction is of greater practical importance than it, at first, seems to be. For Father Delattre only grants that the inspired historian may write according to sensible appearances, while his opponents contend that he may follow also the so-called historic appearances. Finally, the first two decisions of the Biblical Commission must be mentioned in this connection. Some Catholic writers had attempted to remove certain historical difficulties from the sacred text either by considering the respective passages as tacit or implied quotations from other authors, for which the inspired writers did not in any way vouch; or by denying that the sacred writers vouch, in any way, for the historical accuracy of the facts they narrate, since they use these apparent facts merely as pegs on which to hang some moral teaching. The Biblical Commission rejected these two methods by decrees issued respectively 13 Feb. and 23 June, 1905, adding, however, that either of them may be admitted in the case when, due regard being paid to the sense and judgment of the Church, it can be proved by solid argument that the sacred writer either really quoted the sayings or documents of another without speaking in his own name, or did not really intend to write history, but only to propose a parable, an allegory, or another non-historical literary concept.
Since God is the principal Author of Sacred Scripture, it can contain no error, no self-contradiction, nothing contrary to scientific or historical truth. The Encyclical "Providentissimus Deus" is most explicit in its statement of this prerogative of the Bible: "All the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can coexist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily, as it is impossible that God Himself, the Supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true." The Fathers agree with this teaching almost unanimously; we may refer the reader to St. Jerome (In Nah., I, iv), St. Irenæus (C. hær., II, xxviii), Clement of Alexandria (Stromata VII.16), St. Augustine (Reply to Faustus II.2; cf. "In Ps. cxviii", serm. xxxi, 5; "Ad Hier.", ep. lxxxii, 2, 22; "Ad Oros. c. Prisc.", xi), St. Gregory the Great (Præf. in Job, n. 2). The great African Doctor suggests a simple and radical remedy against apparent errors in the Bible: "Either my codex is wrong, or the translator has blundered, or I do not understand."So basically, (and please correct me if I'm misreading things!) the Church says that the sections of the Bible which are the literal word of G-d or his divine representatives are just that -- the literal, inerrant Word that cannot be contradicted. And that the rest of the text is imperfect. However, in cases where the word of G-d and those who speak for him come into conflict with agreed-upon scientific knowledge, the Bible reigns supreme. And since they've restricted those areas of science which reveal "solid proof" they can pretty much say what they like, can't they? When we discuss scientific principles and theory, we're only speaking about hypotheses and tested, repeatable results. Which the text refers to as 'accepted by scientists today, rejected tomorrow.'
But inerrancy is not the prerogative of everything that happens to be found in the Bible; it is restricted to what the inspired writers state as their own, unless they quote the words of a speaker who is infallible in his utterances, the words of an Apostle, e.g., or of a Divinely authorized speaker, whether angel or man (cf. Luke 1:42, 67; 2:25; 2 Maccabees 7:21), or again words regarded as having Divine authority either by Scripture (cf. 1 Corinthians 3:19; Galatians 4:30) or by the Church (e.g., the Magnificat). Biblical words that do not fall under any of these classes carry merely the authority of the speaker, the weight of which must be studied from other sources. Here is the place to take notice of a decision issued by the Biblical Commission, 13 Feb., 1905, according to which certain Scriptural statements may be treated as quotations, though they appear on the surface to be the utterances of the inspired writer. But this can be done only when there is certain and independent proof that the inspired writer really quotes the words of another without intending to make them his own. Recent writers call such passages "tacit" or "implicit" citations.
The inerrancy of Scripture does not allow us to admit contradictions in its statements. This is understood of the genuine or primitive text of the Bible. Owing to textual corruptions, we must be prepared to meet contradictions in details of minor importance; in weightier matters such discrepancies have been avoided even in our present text. Discrepancies which may appear to obtain in matters of faith or morals should put the commentator on his guard that the same Biblical expressions are not everywhere taken in the same sense, that various passages may differ from each other as the complete statement of a doctrine differs from its incomplete expression, as a clear presentation differs from its obscure delineation. Thus "works" has one meaning in James, ii, 24, another in Rom., iii, 28; "brothers" denotes one kind of relationship in Matthew 12:46, quite a different kind in most other passages; John 14:28 and 10:30, Acts 8:12, and Matthew 28:19, are respectively opposed to each other as a clear statement is opposed to an obscure one, as an explicit one to a mere implication. In apparent Biblical discrepancies found in historical passages, the commentator must distinguish between statements made by the inspired writer and those merely quoted by him (cf. 1 Samuel 31:9, and 2 Samuel 1:6 sqq.), between a double account of the same fact and the narrative of two similar incidents, between chronologies which begin with different starting-points, finally between a compendious and a detailed report of an event. Lastly, apparent discrepancies which occur in prophetical passages necessitate an investigation, whether the respective texts emanate from the Prophets as Prophets (cf. 2 Samuel 7:3-17), whether they refer to the same or to similar subjects (the destruction of Jerusalem, e.g., and the end of the world), whether they consider their subject from the same point of view (e.g. the suffering and the glorious Messias), whether they use proper or figurative language. Thus the Prophet Nathan in his private capacity encourages David to build the Temple (2 Samuel 7:3), but as Prophet he foretells that Solomon will build the house of God (ibid., 13).
The inerrancy of Scripture excludes also any contradiction between the Bible and the certain tenets of science. It cannot be supposed that the inspired writers should agree with all the various hypotheses which scientists assume today and reject tomorrow; but the commentator will be required to harmonize the teaching of the Bible with the scientific results which rest on solid proof. This rule is clearly laid down by the Encyclical in the words of St. Augustine: "Whatever they can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures, and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so" (De Gen. ad litt., I, xxi, xli). But the commentator must also be careful "not to make rash assertions, or to assert what is not known as known" (St. Aug., in Gen. op. imperf., ix, 30). The Encyclical appeals here again to the words of the great African Doctor (St. Aug., de Gen. ad litt., II, ix, xx): "[The Holy Ghost] who spoke by them [the inspired writers], did not intend to teach men these things [i.e., the essential nature of the things of the visible universe], things in no way profitable unto salvation." The pontiff continues: "Hence they . . . described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way, the sacred writers — as the Angelic Doctor reminds us (Summa Theologiæ I.70.1 ad 3um) — 'went by what visibly appeared', or put down what God, speaking to men, signified in a way men could understand and were accustomed to." In Genesis 1:16, e.g., the sun and the moon are called two great lights; in Joshua 10:12, the sun is commanded to stand still; in Eccl., i, 5, the sun returns to its place; in Job 26:11, the firmament appears solid and brazen; in other passages the heavens are upheld by columns, and God rides on the clouds of heaven.
Finally, the commentator must be prepared to deal with the seeming discrepancies between Biblical and profane history. The considerations to be kept in mind here are similar to those laid down in the preceding paragraph. First, not all statements found in profane sources can be regarded a priori as Gospel truth; some of them refer to subjects with which the writers were imperfectly acquainted, others proceed from party-feeling and national vanity, others again are based on imperfectly or only partially translated ancient documents. Secondly, the Bible does not ex professo teach profane history or chronology. These topics are treated only incidentally, in as far as they are connected with sacred subjects. Hence it would be wrong to regard Scripture as containing a complete course of history and chronology, or to consider the text of its historical portions above suspicion of corruption.. Thirdly, we must keep in mind the words of St. Jerome (in Jer., xxviii, 10): "Many things in Sacred Scripture are related according to the opinion of the time in which they are said to have happened, and not according to objective truth"; and again (in Matthew 14:8): "According to the custom of Scripture, the historian relates the opinion concerning many things in accordance with the general belief at that time." Father Delattre maintains (Le Criterium à l'usage de la Nouvelle Exégèse Biblique, Liège, 1907) that according to St. Jerome the inspired writers report the public opinion prevalent at the time of the events related, not the public opinion prevalent when the narrative was written. This distinction is of greater practical importance than it, at first, seems to be. For Father Delattre only grants that the inspired historian may write according to sensible appearances, while his opponents contend that he may follow also the so-called historic appearances. Finally, the first two decisions of the Biblical Commission must be mentioned in this connection. Some Catholic writers had attempted to remove certain historical difficulties from the sacred text either by considering the respective passages as tacit or implied quotations from other authors, for which the inspired writers did not in any way vouch; or by denying that the sacred writers vouch, in any way, for the historical accuracy of the facts they narrate, since they use these apparent facts merely as pegs on which to hang some moral teaching. The Biblical Commission rejected these two methods by decrees issued respectively 13 Feb. and 23 June, 1905, adding, however, that either of them may be admitted in the case when, due regard being paid to the sense and judgment of the Church, it can be proved by solid argument that the sacred writer either really quoted the sayings or documents of another without speaking in his own name, or did not really intend to write history, but only to propose a parable, an allegory, or another non-historical literary concept.
Here's what you [Jews] need to know about the Passover seders and the haggadahActually, it was "Here's what
Despite the declining salience of divisions among religious groups, the boundary between believers and nonbelievers in America remains strong. This article examines the limits of Americans’ acceptance of atheists. Using new national survey data, it shows atheists are less likely to be accepted, publicly and privately, than any others from a long list of ethnic, religious, and other minority groups. This distrust of atheists is driven by religious predictors, social location, and broader value orientations. It is rooted in moral and symbolic, rather than ethnic or material, grounds. We demonstrate that increasing acceptance of religious diversity does not extend to the nonreligious, and present aposted by Elementary Penguin at 11:49 AM on April 11, 2012
theoretical framework for understanding the role of religious belief in providing a moral basis for cultural membership and solidarity in an otherwise highly diverse society.
This conception of religion is rooted in a very specific, very local notion of divinity. It is by no means universal, and while it may be the one with which you are most familiar and the one with the most local impact on your life, it would be nice if you weren't so provincial. It would have been nice if Hitchens wasn't either ...He also pointed out that science and skepticism weren't exclusively European phenomena, and didn't appear out of nowhere in the European Enlightenment.
I am arguing that it's a bad thing when we tell people who are not part of the dominant ethnic culture on MetaFilter, whether they're believers of some sort or not, that their concerns, perspectives and opinions are irrelevant because they're not part of of the dominant culture and that they should shut up.No one has done that, or anything like that. This is a classic straw-man argument--you've misrepresented your opposition's arguments in terms that are easy to refute. You can't get away with that on Metafilter.
posted by andoatnp at 9:12 PM on April 8, 2012 [22 favorites]