World wide web May 21, 2012 8:35 AM Subscribe
Single (or multiple) region-locked link posts: yay or nay?
Previously.
Previouslier.
We're never going to get Hulu et al to stop blocking non-US visitors, so perhaps we could talk about putting in an informal rule (as in the case of "SLYT") or asking users to make sure they have at least one working global link in region-locked posts. I understand there was discussion of putting in a warning note before Hulu-only posts go live -- does this still seem reasonable?
Personally, I'd like to see a clarification as to whether an all-Hulu link post is acceptable for Metafilter and if so, why? Does that mean I can make a post with just BBC iPlayer content if I want to? Because I totally want to. David Attenborough is the shit.
Previously.
Previouslier.
We're never going to get Hulu et al to stop blocking non-US visitors, so perhaps we could talk about putting in an informal rule (as in the case of "SLYT") or asking users to make sure they have at least one working global link in region-locked posts. I understand there was discussion of putting in a warning note before Hulu-only posts go live -- does this still seem reasonable?
Personally, I'd like to see a clarification as to whether an all-Hulu link post is acceptable for Metafilter and if so, why? Does that mean I can make a post with just BBC iPlayer content if I want to? Because I totally want to. David Attenborough is the shit.
Possibly stupid question: how is the poster supposed to know if the link works in more than one region?
posted by rtha at 8:39 AM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rtha at 8:39 AM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is the faq entry on the subject, for what it's worth.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:41 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:41 AM on May 21, 2012
rtha: "Possibly stupid question: how is the poster supposed to know if the link works in more than one region?"
If Youtube, there's a restriction checker. Hulu is generally not available outside the US. But since last summer they have been expanding to an international audience.
posted by zarq at 8:43 AM on May 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
If Youtube, there's a restriction checker. Hulu is generally not available outside the US. But since last summer they have been expanding to an international audience.
posted by zarq at 8:43 AM on May 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
Thanks for that, jessamyn. I figured it was something along those lines, but I think it's worth talking about these things every so often, especially as Mefi's userbase grows.
posted by fight or flight at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by fight or flight at 8:44 AM on May 21, 2012
I understand there was discussion of putting in a warning note before Hulu-only posts go live -- does this still seem reasonable?
It seems pretty sensible to me.
posted by zamboni at 8:47 AM on May 21, 2012
It seems pretty sensible to me.
posted by zamboni at 8:47 AM on May 21, 2012
Taz left a note about how people can get around the region-locking in this case.
Doesn't work.
(At least, for the life of me, I can't get it to.)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:54 AM on May 21, 2012
Doesn't work.
(At least, for the life of me, I can't get it to.)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:54 AM on May 21, 2012
Adding a warning note is reasonable. When you combine it with the other warnings we already have about double posts it gets a little less reasonable. We don't want the posting interface to be a series of lights and sirens and friendly notes that you have to slog through before you can post.
Region restricted content is fairly rare. Informal rules like the one we have for kickstarter have worked well to curb those posts without a warning. If we get to the point where we're seeing nothing but region restricted content I think it'd make sense to bother people about it on posting.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:02 AM on May 21, 2012
Region restricted content is fairly rare. Informal rules like the one we have for kickstarter have worked well to curb those posts without a warning. If we get to the point where we're seeing nothing but region restricted content I think it'd make sense to bother people about it on posting.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:02 AM on May 21, 2012
so perhaps we could talk about putting in an informal rule (as in the case of "SLYT")
Huh? What's the "informal rule as in the case of "SLYT"?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:03 AM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Huh? What's the "informal rule as in the case of "SLYT"?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:03 AM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hey jessamyn, how about adding the proxmate link to the faq that taz kindly provided (I can report it works fine in Oz with Hulu).
posted by peacay at 9:04 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by peacay at 9:04 AM on May 21, 2012
Region-locked content is something that's always going to be hard to figure out for posters. It is something that may have to be dealt with after the fact, just as a matter of practicality.
The thing that made me most uncomfortable was the suggestion by a MeFi employee to violate copyright. I don't have strong moral concerns, but I really don't want to see the site blackballed by an overzealous media company.
posted by bonehead at 9:06 AM on May 21, 2012
The thing that made me most uncomfortable was the suggestion by a MeFi employee to violate copyright. I don't have strong moral concerns, but I really don't want to see the site blackballed by an overzealous media company.
posted by bonehead at 9:06 AM on May 21, 2012
Sys Rq, did you disable Ad Block? I didn't actually try it in FF, just in Chrome, but it's working for me after disabling ad block on the domain. Are you using any other blockers?
Anyway, I do understand the frustration since I am one of the affected when it comes to US-only links. I actually looked for alternative direct links for that post, but the show being so fresh stymied that, I think. I don't find that it's happening a great deal, though... or at least most of the time it is easier to find alternatives that work without using a plugin or proxies, VPS, etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 9:07 AM on May 21, 2012
Anyway, I do understand the frustration since I am one of the affected when it comes to US-only links. I actually looked for alternative direct links for that post, but the show being so fresh stymied that, I think. I don't find that it's happening a great deal, though... or at least most of the time it is easier to find alternatives that work without using a plugin or proxies, VPS, etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 9:07 AM on May 21, 2012
What's the "informal rule as in the case of "SLYT"?
The [SLYT] warnings people sometimes put in youtube link posts. I couldn't remember if it had been formalised or if it's just a Mefi quirk. In the case of region-locked content, it could be just [Hulu] or similar.
posted by fight or flight at 9:08 AM on May 21, 2012
The [SLYT] warnings people sometimes put in youtube link posts. I couldn't remember if it had been formalised or if it's just a Mefi quirk. In the case of region-locked content, it could be just [Hulu] or similar.
posted by fight or flight at 9:08 AM on May 21, 2012
Sorry about that, folks. I knew content on Hulu was partially restricted, but I couldn't find anything from Saturday's show that was obviously available for everyone. I thought about adding some lame link to Wiig's IMDB or wikipedia page, but that seemed just as bad. NBC's interface seemed worse than Hulu and seemed likely to be just as restricted. I was pretty sure there were workarounds for Hulu so I went ahead and posted. Lesson learned. I guess I need to re-read the faq.
All that said, it was a really great episode. I suppose I now know why no one else posted about it.
posted by Toekneesan at 9:11 AM on May 21, 2012
All that said, it was a really great episode. I suppose I now know why no one else posted about it.
posted by Toekneesan at 9:11 AM on May 21, 2012
pb: Maybe not a warning that everybody sees, but maybe a popup or interstitial or on-preview notice that only appears when all the links in a post-under-construction go to known region-locked domains such as hulu.com? Then it wouldn't be something that every poster would have to see, but people who are crafting a post with only region-locked content would see something like "We noticed that all the links in this post go to Hulu.com. Please note that content at this site is generally restricted to US browsers only, and that people in other countries will probably be unable to view it. Please make sure that your post doesn't depend heavily on region-locked content."
Is that any more reasonable?
posted by Scientist at 9:20 AM on May 21, 2012
Is that any more reasonable?
posted by Scientist at 9:20 AM on May 21, 2012
Yep, Ad Block disabled. Followed all your steps. Nothin'.
(FWIW, SNL is available in Canada on Global's website.)
posted by Sys Rq at 9:24 AM on May 21, 2012
(FWIW, SNL is available in Canada on Global's website.)
posted by Sys Rq at 9:24 AM on May 21, 2012
Scientist, yes absolutely. That is reasonable. I'm just not sure it's necessary yet.
posted by pb (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by pb (staff) at 9:24 AM on May 21, 2012
With Hulu it's kinda shrug, think 'that's a shame' and move on... more annoying are region locked youtube vidz but they tend to come up less often
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:25 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:25 AM on May 21, 2012
Actually, the first documented use was in the 5th century in Rome, and it was a vote on whether or not to allow horse stalls within city limits so the term is technically "yea or neigh".
posted by Grither at 9:34 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Grither at 9:34 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
The [SLYT] warnings people sometimes put in youtube link posts.
Is there even an informal rule about that?
posted by John Cohen at 9:38 AM on May 21, 2012
Is there even an informal rule about that?
posted by John Cohen at 9:38 AM on May 21, 2012
I think there's actually, depending on who one asks, an informal rule to stop frigging doing that already.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:41 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:41 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
There's an informal rule where Edogy gets all the cupcakes.
posted by Edogy at 9:44 AM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Edogy at 9:44 AM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, I did this with a google books post a while back (not readable in Australia) so maybe we could have a list of stuff that is blocked in the faq? Or link to a list maintained elsewhere?
posted by shothotbot at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by shothotbot at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2012
fearfulsymmetry: "With Hulu it's kinda shrug, think 'that's a shame' and move on... more annoying are region locked youtube vidz but they tend to come up less often"
When I remember to, I've taken to labeling YT vids in my posts that are only available in a handful of countries. The Crackle channel videos linked in my Barney Miller post were only available in the US, Canada and the UK. I suspect though, that those three countries probably make up a bulk of the userbase.
Most music videos are restricted to not play in certain countries. The same countries come up repeatedly in the restriction checker for music posts, like Germany.
posted by zarq at 9:55 AM on May 21, 2012
When I remember to, I've taken to labeling YT vids in my posts that are only available in a handful of countries. The Crackle channel videos linked in my Barney Miller post were only available in the US, Canada and the UK. I suspect though, that those three countries probably make up a bulk of the userbase.
Most music videos are restricted to not play in certain countries. The same countries come up repeatedly in the restriction checker for music posts, like Germany.
posted by zarq at 9:55 AM on May 21, 2012
The [SLYT] warnings people sometimes put in youtube link posts.
Is there even an informal rule about that?
Yes, the rule is stop shitting up a thread complaining about it because it's not going to change.
posted by Big_B at 9:57 AM on May 21, 2012
Is there even an informal rule about that?
Yes, the rule is stop shitting up a thread complaining about it because it's not going to change.
posted by Big_B at 9:57 AM on May 21, 2012
John Cohen: " Is there even an informal rule about that?"
It's not something that anyone is required to follow. Some folks (including me) may consider it polite to include. I feel the same way about NSFW labels and trigger warnings. Not necessary, but a nice gesture for those who find that sort of thing helpful.
posted by zarq at 10:06 AM on May 21, 2012
It's not something that anyone is required to follow. Some folks (including me) may consider it polite to include. I feel the same way about NSFW labels and trigger warnings. Not necessary, but a nice gesture for those who find that sort of thing helpful.
posted by zarq at 10:06 AM on May 21, 2012
It's not something that anyone is required to follow. Some folks (including me) may consider it polite to include. I feel the same way about NSFW labels and trigger warnings. Not necessary, but a nice gesture for those who find that sort of thing helpful.
I'm still not convinced. Have the mods ever said it's considered the best approach to include "SLYT" with a single-link YouTube post? I'm not asking if there's a strict, formal rule; I'm asking if there's even a general, informal guideline. "NSFW" and other warnings are different. I see the point of those warnings. I don't see the point of "SLYT."
posted by John Cohen at 10:16 AM on May 21, 2012
I'm still not convinced. Have the mods ever said it's considered the best approach to include "SLYT" with a single-link YouTube post? I'm not asking if there's a strict, formal rule; I'm asking if there's even a general, informal guideline. "NSFW" and other warnings are different. I see the point of those warnings. I don't see the point of "SLYT."
posted by John Cohen at 10:16 AM on May 21, 2012
John Cohen: "I'm still not convinced. "
I wasn't intending to convince you of anything. I was pointing out that it's not a "rule" of any kind here (formal or informal) on the site.
posted by zarq at 10:28 AM on May 21, 2012
I wasn't intending to convince you of anything. I was pointing out that it's not a "rule" of any kind here (formal or informal) on the site.
posted by zarq at 10:28 AM on May 21, 2012
John Cohen: "Have the mods ever said it's considered the best approach to include "SLYT" with a single-link YouTube post? I'm not asking if there's a strict, formal rule; I'm asking if there's even a general, informal guideline.
There are a ton of things that MeFites do and joke about which have never been officially commented on by the mods except perhaps to say, "It's not required. We're not discouraging it, establishing a rule about it, or deleting instances of it. People can do what they like." Dots in obit threads are a good example of a convention that has become a site tradition, but which are neither officially encouraged nor discouraged by the mods. "Eponysterical" is another.
"NSFW" and other warnings are different. I see the point of those warnings. I don't see the point of "SLYT.""
You're not the only one who feels this way.
The posts themselves seem to bother some people. That's why I consider it polite to label them. By contrast, the labels seem to bother other people. In wider society, these sorts of conflicts are why we establish laws, rules, regulations, etc. Since no rule is forthcoming, (or needed, really) the debate will no doubt continue.
posted by zarq at 10:45 AM on May 21, 2012
There are a ton of things that MeFites do and joke about which have never been officially commented on by the mods except perhaps to say, "It's not required. We're not discouraging it, establishing a rule about it, or deleting instances of it. People can do what they like." Dots in obit threads are a good example of a convention that has become a site tradition, but which are neither officially encouraged nor discouraged by the mods. "Eponysterical" is another.
"NSFW" and other warnings are different. I see the point of those warnings. I don't see the point of "SLYT.""
You're not the only one who feels this way.
The posts themselves seem to bother some people. That's why I consider it polite to label them. By contrast, the labels seem to bother other people. In wider society, these sorts of conflicts are why we establish laws, rules, regulations, etc. Since no rule is forthcoming, (or needed, really) the debate will no doubt continue.
posted by zarq at 10:45 AM on May 21, 2012
I don't see the point of SLYT annotations either, since it's obvious when something is a SLYT post. But it seems to be habit or convention for a lot of people, and it doesn't cost me anything to see it, so okay.
posted by rtha at 10:46 AM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 10:46 AM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
...more annoying are region locked youtube vidz but they tend to come up less often
That's an interesting instance of the information bubble effect. I'm frustrated several times a week by region-locked Youtube content, as the people I'm most likely to send a Youtube link to are in Germany, Austria and Slovakia.
For me, it's got to the point where I search dailymotion and myvideo.de for copies of the same clip before offering a youtube link.
As a complete side note, browsing Youtube in Germany can be an amazing exercise in "Don't use our site". Last I did so, there was no obvious indication until I'd clicked through whether a particular piece of content was blocked by GEMA, so trying to play a single song tended to follow the pattern of 'search', 'click', 'back', 'click', 'back', 'click', 'back' until I remembered that I wasn't in Canada any more.
posted by frimble at 10:47 AM on May 21, 2012
That's an interesting instance of the information bubble effect. I'm frustrated several times a week by region-locked Youtube content, as the people I'm most likely to send a Youtube link to are in Germany, Austria and Slovakia.
For me, it's got to the point where I search dailymotion and myvideo.de for copies of the same clip before offering a youtube link.
As a complete side note, browsing Youtube in Germany can be an amazing exercise in "Don't use our site". Last I did so, there was no obvious indication until I'd clicked through whether a particular piece of content was blocked by GEMA, so trying to play a single song tended to follow the pattern of 'search', 'click', 'back', 'click', 'back', 'click', 'back' until I remembered that I wasn't in Canada any more.
posted by frimble at 10:47 AM on May 21, 2012
I totally disagree with all of you about this, and I hereby extend my disagreement to anything you have ever done or said in the past. Also, I don't like your shoes. Real head-to-toe disagreement is my position on this issue.
We all know that MetaFilter survives as the last, lonely outpost of good-sensibleness in an internet that veritably drips with the noxious ichor of foulness. Today, everywhere one clicks, one is corrupted by mindless and vapid video, audio and twitterio. I much prefer thoughtful commentary about audio-visual works to the works themselves. And, in a world riven by regional blockades of such "AVs", MetaFilter provides a more-than-acceptable alternate to those who cannot watch the blockaded work.
Indeed, by providing a thread of commentary on works that we inhabitants of external jurisdictions are not permitted to watch, the post in question created enlightenment where there was ignorance, joy where there was despair, and love where only hatred had held sway.
Of course, you Americans probably want to keep the juiciest fruits of your intellectual salad to yourself, don't you? You'd love nothing better than to prohibit all knowledge of your secret entertainments and displays from the eyes of Joe Q. Foreigner - letting him starve for nourishment while America enjoys a feast of culture. Well let me tell you, America, we are sick of getting the crumbs from your table. If you don't start live-blogging every enjoyable and worthwhile thing you are guys see or do, we in the rest of the world are going to start making our OWN television shows. And we'll come up with some real nutty shit too, like a show about a time-travelling PhD with a sonic vibtrator and a fucking bow-tie. And he won't even have a name! Seriously, don't let it come to that, for God's sake.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:54 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
We all know that MetaFilter survives as the last, lonely outpost of good-sensibleness in an internet that veritably drips with the noxious ichor of foulness. Today, everywhere one clicks, one is corrupted by mindless and vapid video, audio and twitterio. I much prefer thoughtful commentary about audio-visual works to the works themselves. And, in a world riven by regional blockades of such "AVs", MetaFilter provides a more-than-acceptable alternate to those who cannot watch the blockaded work.
Indeed, by providing a thread of commentary on works that we inhabitants of external jurisdictions are not permitted to watch, the post in question created enlightenment where there was ignorance, joy where there was despair, and love where only hatred had held sway.
Of course, you Americans probably want to keep the juiciest fruits of your intellectual salad to yourself, don't you? You'd love nothing better than to prohibit all knowledge of your secret entertainments and displays from the eyes of Joe Q. Foreigner - letting him starve for nourishment while America enjoys a feast of culture. Well let me tell you, America, we are sick of getting the crumbs from your table. If you don't start live-blogging every enjoyable and worthwhile thing you are guys see or do, we in the rest of the world are going to start making our OWN television shows. And we'll come up with some real nutty shit too, like a show about a time-travelling PhD with a sonic vibtrator and a fucking bow-tie. And he won't even have a name! Seriously, don't let it come to that, for God's sake.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:54 AM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
since it's obvious when something is a SLYT post
How is it obvious?
posted by zamboni at 11:21 AM on May 21, 2012
How is it obvious?
posted by zamboni at 11:21 AM on May 21, 2012
zamboni: " How is it obvious?"
That's actually a really good point. Not everyone reads MeFi in a desktop browser, and I bet a lot of people don't even know how to see the url of a link on their smartphones before they open it.
posted by zarq at 11:27 AM on May 21, 2012
That's actually a really good point. Not everyone reads MeFi in a desktop browser, and I bet a lot of people don't even know how to see the url of a link on their smartphones before they open it.
posted by zarq at 11:27 AM on May 21, 2012
I vote for warnings. [SLYT], [Hulu], [paywall] et al. make sense to me.
posted by travelwithcats at 11:33 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by travelwithcats at 11:33 AM on May 21, 2012
Playing the devil's adovcate: is a link to a Youtube video that will assuredly get removed better than a Hulu link? TV show clips on Youtube are getting a shorter and shorter shelflife.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:40 AM on May 21, 2012
posted by roll truck roll at 11:40 AM on May 21, 2012
like a show about a time-travelling PhD with a sonic vibtrator and a fucking bow-tie. And he won't even have a name!
A fucking bow-tie? Er, what, exactly does it fuck? Or is it a special bow-tie worn while fucking? In either case, ew. You can keep your wacky rodgering haberdashery programmes.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:11 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
A fucking bow-tie? Er, what, exactly does it fuck? Or is it a special bow-tie worn while fucking? In either case, ew. You can keep your wacky rodgering haberdashery programmes.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:11 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
travelwithcats writes "I vote for warnings. [SLYT], [Hulu], [paywall] et al. make sense to me."
We don't need a paywall warning; paywall crap shouldn't be permitted (including the NYT) period.
posted by Mitheral at 1:36 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
We don't need a paywall warning; paywall crap shouldn't be permitted (including the NYT) period.
posted by Mitheral at 1:36 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
> How is it obvious?
Good point if you're on a mobile device. And, come to think of it, I the inline player for desk/laptop browsers is a profile preferences option (I have mine checked, so I see that something is a link to a video). It's often clear from context that it's a single-link-video post, but not always.
posted by rtha at 2:07 PM on May 21, 2012
Good point if you're on a mobile device. And, come to think of it, I the inline player for desk/laptop browsers is a profile preferences option (I have mine checked, so I see that something is a link to a video). It's often clear from context that it's a single-link-video post, but not always.
posted by rtha at 2:07 PM on May 21, 2012
It's a pain in the ass, because there's Iplayer/4oD stuff I've wanted to post and then haven't, because what's the point if most of you can't see it?
and the worst thing for us in the UK is that most of the clips on Hulu/network websites are for shows that are not broadcast in the UK at all. I can't watch any of the Parks and Rec clips on the NBC website (we can get 30 Rock on DVD here, not so P+R/Community) I can't find that clip of the closet organiser guy from SNL to send round at work, and they won't let me see Extreme Couponing so I can feel slightly less guilty about arguing with the self-service tills at Sainsbury's for not accepting my Nectar voucher. Who's benefitting there? Do the networks want us all to buy Region 1 box-sets sight unseen?
posted by mippy at 2:08 PM on May 21, 2012
and the worst thing for us in the UK is that most of the clips on Hulu/network websites are for shows that are not broadcast in the UK at all. I can't watch any of the Parks and Rec clips on the NBC website (we can get 30 Rock on DVD here, not so P+R/Community) I can't find that clip of the closet organiser guy from SNL to send round at work, and they won't let me see Extreme Couponing so I can feel slightly less guilty about arguing with the self-service tills at Sainsbury's for not accepting my Nectar voucher. Who's benefitting there? Do the networks want us all to buy Region 1 box-sets sight unseen?
posted by mippy at 2:08 PM on May 21, 2012
I thought about adding some lame link to Wiig's IMDB or wikipedia page, but that seemed just as bad.
Not actually a terrible idea - she's known here as the 'rising star from Bridesmaids' as we don't get SNL. It's good to know that she's not just one character, just as we didn't know that Liz Lemon did something other than some Sarah Palin impressions on some show once.
posted by mippy at 2:09 PM on May 21, 2012
Not actually a terrible idea - she's known here as the 'rising star from Bridesmaids' as we don't get SNL. It's good to know that she's not just one character, just as we didn't know that Liz Lemon did something other than some Sarah Palin impressions on some show once.
posted by mippy at 2:09 PM on May 21, 2012
With Hulu it's kinda shrug, think 'that's a shame' and move on... more annoying are region locked youtube vidz but they tend to come up less often
You say that, but it's a whole post that we outwith the US can't see, and the discussion in the thread made it sound like we were missing out.
posted by mippy at 2:11 PM on May 21, 2012
You say that, but it's a whole post that we outwith the US can't see, and the discussion in the thread made it sound like we were missing out.
posted by mippy at 2:11 PM on May 21, 2012
Does anyone know of a decent solution for UK content? (ITV and BBC?)
posted by ocherdraco at 2:16 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by ocherdraco at 2:16 PM on May 21, 2012
All that Hulu has done is make certain I don't watch any NBC content anymore. I can't, being outside of the U.S., although I'm vaguely interested in the upcoming train wreck that will be Hulu in Japan (if there is another country as in line with the media companies' copyright demands as this place, I haven't seen it). All this means is that SNL is that show I remember as being quite funny a long time ago, but now I can't see it.
NBC made its choice to exclude the world. I'd prefer it if Metafilter didn't join in by posting all Hulu posts, personally. If they go up, it would be nice to have sort of a warning, so I don't wade into a post by accident, thinking I might finally be able to see something. Perhaps a peacock with an american flag, pissing on a globe?
posted by Ghidorah at 3:07 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
NBC made its choice to exclude the world. I'd prefer it if Metafilter didn't join in by posting all Hulu posts, personally. If they go up, it would be nice to have sort of a warning, so I don't wade into a post by accident, thinking I might finally be able to see something. Perhaps a peacock with an american flag, pissing on a globe?
posted by Ghidorah at 3:07 PM on May 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
What is sure is that those so-called "content" industries are working very hard at making copyrights and (more unfortunately perhaps) authors' rights not just irrelevant - which they already are for most of the world population - but actually hated. That's probably the only industry that tells potential customers (all of us stinky foreigners) to fuck off several million times per day.
posted by elgilito at 3:35 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by elgilito at 3:35 PM on May 21, 2012
If y'all weren't so cheap and ponied up for a region-free Metafilter player, you wouldn't have such problems.
posted by special-k at 3:38 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by special-k at 3:38 PM on May 21, 2012
pb: "Region restricted content is fairly rare."
For you, maybe. Not so much for those of us on the other side of the wall.
posted by dg at 3:52 PM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
For you, maybe. Not so much for those of us on the other side of the wall.
posted by dg at 3:52 PM on May 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
For you, maybe. Not so much for those of us on the other side of the wall.
I meant as sole subjects of MetaFilter posts, not in general. Maybe there are three links to hulu.com each month out of thousands of links each month.
posted by pb (staff) at 3:54 PM on May 21, 2012
I meant as sole subjects of MetaFilter posts, not in general. Maybe there are three links to hulu.com each month out of thousands of links each month.
posted by pb (staff) at 3:54 PM on May 21, 2012
Region locket stuff should be deleted on site. So what if the poster doesn't know? Just say:
However, the mods, being American, don't rate the problem as serious--you might say they are blinkered by their privilege--hence we get this:
posted by Chuckles at 3:56 PM on May 21, 2012
Deletion reason: Sorry OP, turns out those links are region locked. You might feel bad about getting deleted, but think about how pissed all those people who tried to appreciate your effort have gotten by the region lock. Try searching for some alternate links and post again tomorrow.Easy.
However, the mods, being American, don't rate the problem as serious--you might say they are blinkered by their privilege--hence we get this:
We didn't notice this one until someone emailed and brough it to our attention and we went in and deleted some "fuck hulu" comments.Heh...
posted by Chuckles at 3:56 PM on May 21, 2012
I wasn't aware there was some connection between trying to view region-locked content and an inability to flag it?
All we know are the things that get brought to our attention via flagging and this post had barely any flags. At the point at which we checked it out closely, there were a few "fuck hulu" comments (which are basic derails) and other discussion more or less about the topic of the post. As pb said, it's rare that a post has only region-locked content, it's rarer still that that sort of thing gets posted by a long-time user and not flagged to hell. I'm not sure why it didn't happen this time but it didn't. taz posted a note in the thread for a workaround that seems to work for some people and not for others.
It's not that we don't rate this problem as serious, it's that we almost never see it happening and thus when it does we don't have a prepared response.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:07 PM on May 21, 2012
All we know are the things that get brought to our attention via flagging and this post had barely any flags. At the point at which we checked it out closely, there were a few "fuck hulu" comments (which are basic derails) and other discussion more or less about the topic of the post. As pb said, it's rare that a post has only region-locked content, it's rarer still that that sort of thing gets posted by a long-time user and not flagged to hell. I'm not sure why it didn't happen this time but it didn't. taz posted a note in the thread for a workaround that seems to work for some people and not for others.
It's not that we don't rate this problem as serious, it's that we almost never see it happening and thus when it does we don't have a prepared response.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:07 PM on May 21, 2012
However, the mods, being American,
I am honour-bound to point out that Taz resides in Greece, and thus is as likely to see these things as I am.
posted by smoke at 4:24 PM on May 21, 2012
I am honour-bound to point out that Taz resides in Greece, and thus is as likely to see these things as I am.
posted by smoke at 4:24 PM on May 21, 2012
I dunno, it's not the posters' fault that content is restricted. In order to reduce the emotional trauma for the users that can't see the content maybe the entire post wouldn't show up for them? <only4\/9serious/>
.... arguing with myself this would lead to the USIANfilter, OKSCOTLANDfilter, FANCYFOOTWORKfilter (only available in Ville-Marie on alternate Tuesdays)
posted by xorry at 5:29 PM on May 21, 2012
.... arguing with myself this would lead to the USIANfilter, OKSCOTLANDfilter, FANCYFOOTWORKfilter (only available in Ville-Marie on alternate Tuesdays)
posted by xorry at 5:29 PM on May 21, 2012
Hrm, MeFi needs a MeFi users only, MeFi posted links only worldwide proxy network. I pondered this a few days ago when I hit a "Blocked in the U.S." youtube link (how dare they!). But I can't come up with a good way to restrict to MeFi users since there's no MeFi OAuth like thing that I know of.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:01 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by zengargoyle at 7:01 PM on May 21, 2012
To be fair, there's usually no way to know whether a link is region-restricted unless you're, well, regional anyway, is there?
posted by dg at 7:09 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by dg at 7:09 PM on May 21, 2012
I discovered from a post here in the blue a few weeks back (I think it was the Between 2 Ferns one) that for Comedy Central video (er, I think it was Comedy Central), videos embedded on their own site don't work over here in Korea, but embeds of the same videos in other sites do.
Sloppy and probably not intended behaviour, but there you go.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:35 PM on May 21, 2012
Sloppy and probably not intended behaviour, but there you go.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:35 PM on May 21, 2012
Or, more properly I guess, that applies to some videos -- the ones that are flagged on their site as region-restricted.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:36 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:36 PM on May 21, 2012
To be fair, there's usually no way to know whether a link is region-restricted unless you're, well, regional anyway, is there?
What do "fuck hulu" comments mean?
posted by Chuckles at 10:55 PM on May 21, 2012
What do "fuck hulu" comments mean?
posted by Chuckles at 10:55 PM on May 21, 2012
I don't know, they were all deleted. Perhaps you can tell me?
posted by dg at 11:45 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by dg at 11:45 PM on May 21, 2012
My thoughts as one of those affected: Rather than people just not posting interesting but restricted things, I'd rather see some sort of content provided for those who are locked out, even if an alternative working link for the actual video (or other content) can't be found.
I haven't kept up with SNL since it's not shown here, and the last time I was watching at all it was pretty bad, so I didn't have any motivation to learn more about its current incarnation, but if people here are saying X performer is good/noteworthy, or a particular episode of something is significant for some reason, I'd rather know about that than not read anything about it here because the specific material is restricted. I personally think posting additional reviews, commentary, or background, and possibly links to other performances if available, and/or maybe some bio info would be a fair effort that would allow people who can't view the vid to still learn about why there's something particularly interesting about it, and perhaps become acquainted with a performer/writer/show/whatever.
I also sort of feel that while anger at the ridiculously broken global copyright thing is totally justified, that we also don't want to cut off our noses to spite our faces, and I'd sort of like to see us work together more to find ways to share as much as possible under the circumstances as opposed to venting frustration by angrily demanding that those things should not be posted at all.
Over the years I've read about a lot of things on MeFi that weren't available here, and sometimes they showed up later and I was already knowledgeable enough to make time to for them, or else I was able to find online sources for learning more if I was super intrigued. Additionally, I just prefer knowing all sorts of tiny bits of information, even if it's not something there's awareness about in my physical location. There are so many references that I wouldn't understand if I wasn't able to read and learn about a lot of pop (and other) culture stuff that isn't a thing here, and that would make me feel worse than not being able to view a video with a single click (because if I really, really want to see something, I can usually figure out a way to make that happen).
So, for me, more info is better: I want to know all the things. I'd like to see us resist dumb restrictive licensing by being more generous with adding context, info, background, and alternatives when those are available (and if the poster has missed something that might help folks get a better picture of things, it would be great to share that in the thread), rather than caving and saying the MeFi won't feature content at all unless it's available to all the people.
These are my feelings as opposed to any sort of policy, btw.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:57 PM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I haven't kept up with SNL since it's not shown here, and the last time I was watching at all it was pretty bad, so I didn't have any motivation to learn more about its current incarnation, but if people here are saying X performer is good/noteworthy, or a particular episode of something is significant for some reason, I'd rather know about that than not read anything about it here because the specific material is restricted. I personally think posting additional reviews, commentary, or background, and possibly links to other performances if available, and/or maybe some bio info would be a fair effort that would allow people who can't view the vid to still learn about why there's something particularly interesting about it, and perhaps become acquainted with a performer/writer/show/whatever.
I also sort of feel that while anger at the ridiculously broken global copyright thing is totally justified, that we also don't want to cut off our noses to spite our faces, and I'd sort of like to see us work together more to find ways to share as much as possible under the circumstances as opposed to venting frustration by angrily demanding that those things should not be posted at all.
Over the years I've read about a lot of things on MeFi that weren't available here, and sometimes they showed up later and I was already knowledgeable enough to make time to for them, or else I was able to find online sources for learning more if I was super intrigued. Additionally, I just prefer knowing all sorts of tiny bits of information, even if it's not something there's awareness about in my physical location. There are so many references that I wouldn't understand if I wasn't able to read and learn about a lot of pop (and other) culture stuff that isn't a thing here, and that would make me feel worse than not being able to view a video with a single click (because if I really, really want to see something, I can usually figure out a way to make that happen).
So, for me, more info is better: I want to know all the things. I'd like to see us resist dumb restrictive licensing by being more generous with adding context, info, background, and alternatives when those are available (and if the poster has missed something that might help folks get a better picture of things, it would be great to share that in the thread), rather than caving and saying the MeFi won't feature content at all unless it's available to all the people.
These are my feelings as opposed to any sort of policy, btw.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:57 PM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
One problem I keep meaning to bring up for which there is an easy solution:
Any time I go to www.popsci.com/whatever.html I get redirected to www.popsci.com.au/whatever.html. The thing is, the Australian Popular Science doesn't have the same articles or structure as the US one, so this invariably gives me a 404 File Not Found error. I am actually amazed by the stupidity of whoever thought this would be good behavior; my best explanation is that they hate their brand.
Anyway, there is a solution! Just append ".nyed.net" to the address, like so: www.popsci.com.nyud.net/whatever.html and Australians can see the Popular Science articles via the Coral cache. The thing is, sometimes I remember to do this and sometimes I don't, because I don't read Popular Science very often. What I'd like is for Popular Science URLs to get automagically rewritten for Australians (and anyone else affected, I guess). Would the Powers be willing to to do this?
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:19 AM on May 22, 2012
Any time I go to www.popsci.com/whatever.html I get redirected to www.popsci.com.au/whatever.html. The thing is, the Australian Popular Science doesn't have the same articles or structure as the US one, so this invariably gives me a 404 File Not Found error. I am actually amazed by the stupidity of whoever thought this would be good behavior; my best explanation is that they hate their brand.
Anyway, there is a solution! Just append ".nyed.net" to the address, like so: www.popsci.com.nyud.net/whatever.html and Australians can see the Popular Science articles via the Coral cache. The thing is, sometimes I remember to do this and sometimes I don't, because I don't read Popular Science very often. What I'd like is for Popular Science URLs to get automagically rewritten for Australians (and anyone else affected, I guess). Would the Powers be willing to to do this?
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:19 AM on May 22, 2012
That was actually brought up here recently: Pop goes the www. Apparently some workplace content filters reject Coralized URLs... but there's a user script that Coralizes MeFi links, which might be helpful for some people.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:29 AM on May 22, 2012
posted by taz (staff) at 3:29 AM on May 22, 2012
Huh. I feel like one of those monkeys who spontaneously started washing tubers in the sea because of the psychic influence of other monkeys. Or whatever. Hey, if anyone wants to see a perfect example of how not to respond to requests, Pinback kindly posted a copy of PopSci Australia's response to someone telling them about the problem:
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:43 AM on May 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Blockquote, quotation marks and italics to make sure the quotation is readable in all browsers.However unfortunately there is no way around this issue. As we are the publishers of the Australian edition of Popular Science Magazine and http://www.popsci.com.au in our license agreement we are entitled to block the US website from being made accessible to Australian web users. This is our legal and business right as the licensees of the US version that we are buying the license and ownership of the Australian market which is why in order to capture the full scope of the market a redirect has been placed on the US website to the Australian one.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:43 AM on May 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Impressive. It's rare to see a corporate response that translates so directly into "because fuck you, that's why".
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 5:49 AM on May 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 5:49 AM on May 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
That is truly an obtuse, braindead, needlessly shitty response on the part of PopSci Australia there. I'm guessing they won't be hanging onto the brand for too long, and will quickly devalue it to the point that someone marginally competent will buy it off them for a relatve pittance. Morons.
posted by Scientist at 9:31 PM on May 26, 2012
posted by Scientist at 9:31 PM on May 26, 2012
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So, yeah, sticky issue and if we'd seen that one earlier we might have axed it and told Toekneesan to repost with some content that was available to everyone.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:39 AM on May 21, 2012 [2 favorites]