The MeTa is Available For All to Enjoy! March 8, 2010 9:07 PM Subscribe
We've discussed it at least once before, but perhaps we should have another go at the topic of video or content that is unavailable outside the USA, or at least give the derail (Which I contributed to, unfortunately) in this FPP somewhere to go.
How would the poster know the content is unavailable outside licensed areas?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:12 PM on March 8, 2010 [15 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:12 PM on March 8, 2010 [15 favorites]
I should really point out that my objection really isn't that it's a Hulu link, but that it's not very well described. Since I don't know what I'm missing, it's impossible to look for alternative links.
So, hey, what's it link to, exactly?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:13 PM on March 8, 2010
So, hey, what's it link to, exactly?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:13 PM on March 8, 2010
Hotspot shield alternatives.
Weird, I was using Hotspot Shield to watch Hulu and Crackle from Canada this weekend with no problems.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:16 PM on March 8, 2010
Weird, I was using Hotspot Shield to watch Hulu and Crackle from Canada this weekend with no problems.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:16 PM on March 8, 2010
I should really point out that my objection really isn't that it's a Hulu link, but that it's not very well described. Since I don't know what I'm missing, it's impossible to look for alternative links.
So, hey, what's it link to, exactly?
It's a shame you don't have the ability to actually read the thread, otherwise you'd know.
posted by dead cousin ted at 9:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
So, hey, what's it link to, exactly?
It's a shame you don't have the ability to actually read the thread, otherwise you'd know.
posted by dead cousin ted at 9:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Out....outside the USA? I don't follow.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
People outside the US know who Zach Galifianakis is?
posted by pompomtom at 9:19 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by pompomtom at 9:19 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's a shame you don't have the ability to actually read the thread, otherwise you'd know.
Dude....bit on the rude side, wasn't that?
I don't see what's so unreasonable about requesting more description in the post itself, at least for video links?
I mean, suppose the thread were filled up with in-joking snarky jerks like me, who make no effort to coherently discuss the video in question?
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:20 PM on March 8, 2010
Are these The Others I keep hearing about on Lost?
posted by The Deej at 9:21 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Deej at 9:21 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Out....outside the USA? I don't follow.
It's like the USA, but less entertained due to licensing restrictions.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
It's like the USA, but less entertained due to licensing restrictions.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
It's a shame you don't have the ability to actually read the thread, otherwise you'd know.
Calm the fuck down already, cripes. I'm a prick most of the time, but even I think you're overdoing it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010
Calm the fuck down already, cripes. I'm a prick most of the time, but even I think you're overdoing it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010
hulu.ca redirects to hulu.com, but the content is unavailable in Canada. Take away their domain, they don't need it.
posted by acro at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by acro at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2010
It's a shame you don't have the ability to actually read the thread, otherwise you'd know.
Oh, I read it. Even the part where you got all high and mighty about threadshitting by being the biggest asshole in the room.
Still don't know what exactly the link is. I kind of assumed there would be more to it than just Zach Galafianakis shaving. What's the "prank" then?
Seriously, is that all it is? If so, I might just have to object on the grounds that it's just not a good FPP.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:23 PM on March 8, 2010
Oh, I read it. Even the part where you got all high and mighty about threadshitting by being the biggest asshole in the room.
Still don't know what exactly the link is. I kind of assumed there would be more to it than just Zach Galafianakis shaving. What's the "prank" then?
Seriously, is that all it is? If so, I might just have to object on the grounds that it's just not a good FPP.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:23 PM on March 8, 2010
OK, did someone really think the OP was posting a Hulu link just to piss them off?
posted by Kloryne at 9:27 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Kloryne at 9:27 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think one problem is that there seems to be a lot of crankiness around that thread (not sure why), and another is that this specific question:
Since I don't know what I'm missing, it's impossible to look for alternative links.
actually might have been answered just by reading the thread title, just because it would be fairly easy to understand what the Hulu link was: Zach Galifianakis shaves his beard on SNL. On the other hand, maybe "shaves his beard" wouldn't have been literal, or SNL wouldn't obviously be Saturday Night Live, or Sys Req just wanted something more detailed (as he said above).
Maybe we could redirect the anger to Hulu, the dbag actually blocking the non-U.S. folks, and try assuming the best rather than the worst about people?
posted by sallybrown at 9:30 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Since I don't know what I'm missing, it's impossible to look for alternative links.
actually might have been answered just by reading the thread title, just because it would be fairly easy to understand what the Hulu link was: Zach Galifianakis shaves his beard on SNL. On the other hand, maybe "shaves his beard" wouldn't have been literal, or SNL wouldn't obviously be Saturday Night Live, or Sys Req just wanted something more detailed (as he said above).
Maybe we could redirect the anger to Hulu, the dbag actually blocking the non-U.S. folks, and try assuming the best rather than the worst about people?
posted by sallybrown at 9:30 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you're trying to be helpful, it is probably best not to link to "Let me Google that for you."
posted by that girl at 9:33 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by that girl at 9:33 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
If you're trying to be helpful, it is probably best not to link to "Let me Google that for you."
Especially continuing to do so after its been pointed that those methods no longer work, and that you're probably under-informed on the subject. I fail to understand how craniac, sallybrown, or anyone else considers that genuinely trying to help.
posted by FuManchu at 9:37 PM on March 8, 2010
Especially continuing to do so after its been pointed that those methods no longer work, and that you're probably under-informed on the subject. I fail to understand how craniac, sallybrown, or anyone else considers that genuinely trying to help.
posted by FuManchu at 9:37 PM on March 8, 2010
I don't work for Hulu but I do work in the online television world, and I can assure you that they are almost certainly not responsible for these "outside the U.S." restrictions. Sure, it's their name on the interface you're looking at, but it's ultimately the international sales divisions of media conglomerates (their partners) that institute these restrictions. They want to sell the shows to an international market and often do, so it arguably works against their business model to have them available to the entire world.
So yeah, that's a shame and I understand why people are disappointed. But it's a little more complicated than the "Fuck Hulu!" crowd would have you think. Trust me - if it were up to them, you'd be watching it right now.
posted by dhammond at 9:38 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
So yeah, that's a shame and I understand why people are disappointed. But it's a little more complicated than the "Fuck Hulu!" crowd would have you think. Trust me - if it were up to them, you'd be watching it right now.
posted by dhammond at 9:38 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I shaved my beard yesterday morning. But anyone outside my bathroom in Sydney's inner west was unable to see it, due to licencing restrictions.
And everyone: fuck yoouuuuuuuuu
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:39 PM on March 8, 2010
And everyone: fuck yoouuuuuuuuu
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:39 PM on March 8, 2010
Sys Rq: "
Oh, I read it. Even the part where you got all high and mighty about threadshitting by being the biggest asshole in the room."
Why don't you try not shitting in the thread in the VERY FIRST COMMENT? Is that so hard?
posted by Big_B at 9:40 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Oh, I read it. Even the part where you got all high and mighty about threadshitting by being the biggest asshole in the room."
Why don't you try not shitting in the thread in the VERY FIRST COMMENT? Is that so hard?
posted by Big_B at 9:40 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
might have been answered just by reading the thread title
"The Best Scene Wasn't Broadcast"? Actually, no, that's exactly the very reason why I didn't just watch the clip on the Canadian TV station's website, or download the torrent, or whatever: The clip isn't there.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:40 PM on March 8, 2010
"The Best Scene Wasn't Broadcast"? Actually, no, that's exactly the very reason why I didn't just watch the clip on the Canadian TV station's website, or download the torrent, or whatever: The clip isn't there.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:40 PM on March 8, 2010
Is this something I would have to be Canadian to understand?
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 9:41 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 9:41 PM on March 8, 2010
There have been 41 Hulu posts so far and they seem to be gathering steam, so it's just something we have to swallow I guess. It's probably not that big of a deal unless they become as ubiquitous as the YouTube posts. Then it will start to make big holes on the front page for me. Kinda like if a whole bunch of non-english language posts started getting made.
posted by tellurian at 9:41 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by tellurian at 9:41 PM on March 8, 2010
Did you hear about the time Sarah Palin crossed the border into Alaska to watch hulu?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
People outside the US know who Zach Galifianakis is?
I live here and I don't know him either. :)
posted by zarq at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
I live here and I don't know him either. :)
posted by zarq at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
sallybrown: "I think one problem is that there seems to be a lot of crankiness around that thread (not sure why),"
Maybe because people wouldn't SHUT UP about not being able to see it. I can't see everything posted here sometimes due blocking, but I don't piss and moan and threadshit about it.
posted by Big_B at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010
Maybe because people wouldn't SHUT UP about not being able to see it. I can't see everything posted here sometimes due blocking, but I don't piss and moan and threadshit about it.
posted by Big_B at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010
Why don't you try not shitting in the thread in the VERY FIRST COMMENT? Is that so hard?
Yeah, I'm kind of slightly sorry about that.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010
Yeah, I'm kind of slightly sorry about that.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:42 PM on March 8, 2010
Sorry, Sys Rq, I misused "title." I was referring to the line on the front page: A sublime prank on an SNL audience: Zach Galifianakis shaves his beard (SLHP).
posted by sallybrown at 9:44 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by sallybrown at 9:44 PM on March 8, 2010
Is this something I would have to be Canadian to understand?
Nope, just non-US.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:44 PM on March 8, 2010
Nope, just non-US.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:44 PM on March 8, 2010
I've never been able to get Hotspot Shield to work for me to watch Hulu, so it would be great if posters could assume that Hulu of all things is not available outside of the US. It's a bit of a drag to be excluded from the conversation - that's not what MetaFilter should be about.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:45 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by KokuRyu at 9:45 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Especially continuing to do so after its been pointed that those methods no longer work, and that you're probably under-informed on the subject.
Yes, that was asinine, and I don't know why I kept compulsively doing that after the first link, and it was sloppy of me not to check the links more thoroughly. From what I can tell at this point some of these pay-vpn services look promising, but I can't check them as I am in the US.
I just couldn't understand the threadcrapping/Hulu rage/derail, when, with demand as high as it is, there had to be someone figuring out an alternative. Or torrents.
posted by craniac at 9:49 PM on March 8, 2010
Yes, that was asinine, and I don't know why I kept compulsively doing that after the first link, and it was sloppy of me not to check the links more thoroughly. From what I can tell at this point some of these pay-vpn services look promising, but I can't check them as I am in the US.
I just couldn't understand the threadcrapping/Hulu rage/derail, when, with demand as high as it is, there had to be someone figuring out an alternative. Or torrents.
posted by craniac at 9:49 PM on March 8, 2010
I've never been able to get Hotspot Shield to work for me to watch Hulu, so it would be great if posters could assume that Hulu of all things is not available outside of the US. It's a bit of a drag to be excluded from the conversation - that's not what MetaFilter should be about.
One of the posts I'm working on includes links to a show that is only available on Hulu. It's not the only link that'll be in the post, nor essential to its content, but I want to include it as an example that I think will help flesh things out.
I think it truly sucks that some people can't view Hulu videos. But hypothetically speaking, are you really proposing that I should put up what I think is a weaker post because not everyone might be able to view some of the content?
posted by zarq at 9:50 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of the posts I'm working on includes links to a show that is only available on Hulu. It's not the only link that'll be in the post, nor essential to its content, but I want to include it as an example that I think will help flesh things out.
I think it truly sucks that some people can't view Hulu videos. But hypothetically speaking, are you really proposing that I should put up what I think is a weaker post because not everyone might be able to view some of the content?
posted by zarq at 9:50 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
People outside the US know who Zach Galifianakis is?
S'okay, no fucking clue for me, either, and I live here.
posted by desuetude at 9:51 PM on March 8, 2010
S'okay, no fucking clue for me, either, and I live here.
posted by desuetude at 9:51 PM on March 8, 2010
Some FPPs are interesting to 5% of all MetaFilter users. Total: 5% interestingness. (see also: esoteric artsy posts, WoW posts, mystery meat FPPs)
Some FPPs are interesting to 50% of the 80% of MetaFilter users who are in the U.S., and interesting to 10% of the 20% of MetaFilter users who are outside the U.S. Total: 42% interestingnitude. (see also: U.S. politicsfilter)
Some FPPs are interesting to 25% of the 80% of MetaFilter users who are in the U.S. and can't be accessed at all by 100% of the 20% of MetaFilter users who are outside the U.S. Total: 20% interestingiosity. (see also: Hulu links)
All of these are fine MetaFilter posts. If a post has any claim to interestingnessitudiosity and doesn't violate any other guidelines, then it is An Acceptable Post For MetaFilter. If you don't like it, or if you can't access it, then ignore it and move on.
note: all numbers were pulled out of my [expletive deleted]
posted by Riki tiki at 9:52 PM on March 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
Some FPPs are interesting to 50% of the 80% of MetaFilter users who are in the U.S., and interesting to 10% of the 20% of MetaFilter users who are outside the U.S. Total: 42% interestingnitude. (see also: U.S. politicsfilter)
Some FPPs are interesting to 25% of the 80% of MetaFilter users who are in the U.S. and can't be accessed at all by 100% of the 20% of MetaFilter users who are outside the U.S. Total: 20% interestingiosity. (see also: Hulu links)
All of these are fine MetaFilter posts. If a post has any claim to interestingnessitudiosity and doesn't violate any other guidelines, then it is An Acceptable Post For MetaFilter. If you don't like it, or if you can't access it, then ignore it and move on.
note: all numbers were pulled out of my [expletive deleted]
posted by Riki tiki at 9:52 PM on March 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
This whole attitude annoys the HELL out of me. Look, non-US citizens get healthcare, US citizens get Hulu. You don't have to shit all over a thread simply because you can't watch it. Just fucking move on to the next post.
posted by !Jim at 9:54 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by !Jim at 9:54 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
It's exactly like linking to something on BBC iPlayer, which is unavailable outside the UK. Would a link to a show on iPlayer be an acceptable FPP? If not, then Hulu shouldn't be, either.
posted by cmonkey at 9:54 PM on March 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 9:54 PM on March 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
Some FPPs are interesting to 5% of all MetaFilter users. Total: 5% interestingness. (see also: esoteric artsy posts, WoW posts, mystery meat FPPs)
WoW posts? Wait are you saying that most people I start conversations with in bars AREN'T interested in hearing my theorycrafting work on rogue itemization?
posted by threetoed at 9:56 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
WoW posts? Wait are you saying that most people I start conversations with in bars AREN'T interested in hearing my theorycrafting work on rogue itemization?
posted by threetoed at 9:56 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Considering the fights, insults, snark and effenheimers being bandied about, this must be the most amazing video ever.
Perhaps I will exercise my rights as a US citizen and watch it.
I feel at this point like it's almost compulsory.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2010
Perhaps I will exercise my rights as a US citizen and watch it.
I feel at this point like it's almost compulsory.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2010
But hypothetically speaking, are you really proposing that I should put up what I think is a weaker post because not everyone might be able to view some of the content?
"Dear non-US MeFi users: fuck you" is not, I suggest, going to get you a warm reception.
posted by rodgerd at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Dear non-US MeFi users: fuck you" is not, I suggest, going to get you a warm reception.
posted by rodgerd at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I just read Hulu's Geo-Filtering statement. All I need to do is access it from a local U.S. military base. I'm off to Pine Gap to watch Zach Galifianakis shave his beard!
posted by tellurian at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by tellurian at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Although I don't get the rage, either. Is not being able to watch a guy do something on a TV show that hasn't been funny in decades really the end of the world?
posted by cmonkey at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 9:58 PM on March 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
"Dear non-US MeFi users: fuck you" is not, I suggest, going to get you a warm reception.
I'd agree, if that was what I was doing. It's not. It's more along the lines of:
"Here's a post about X topic. Here are some examples, from Youtube and other websites. And here's one more example of a show, but this one may not be viewable by everyone."
posted by zarq at 10:00 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd agree, if that was what I was doing. It's not. It's more along the lines of:
"Here's a post about X topic. Here are some examples, from Youtube and other websites. And here's one more example of a show, but this one may not be viewable by everyone."
posted by zarq at 10:00 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is not being able to watch a guy do something on a TV show that hasn't been funny in decades really the end of the world?
This is metafilter, where mountains are made out of molehills as a matter of course.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is metafilter, where mountains are made out of molehills as a matter of course.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Look, non-US citizens get healthcare, US citizens get Hulu.
And a freshly shorn Zach Galifianakis.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010
And a freshly shorn Zach Galifianakis.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010
I don't mind and I never assume it was intentional. My friends call me 'Big' Abiezer because I can just let things slide like that. Well, they would if I had any friends and Abiezer was really my name.
posted by Abiezer at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
OK, I watched, it. Everyone stop fighting: it wasn't that funny.
posted by louche mustachio at 10:02 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by louche mustachio at 10:02 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
The video wasn't that interesting, btw.
posted by dead cousin ted at 10:02 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by dead cousin ted at 10:02 PM on March 8, 2010
You're just saying that so the Canadians won't feel bad.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:03 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:03 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think it truly sucks that some people can't view Hulu videos. But hypothetically speaking, are you really proposing that I should put up what I think is a weaker post because not everyone might be able to view some of the content?
Well, it's not that big of a deal to me, anyway - there are plenty of other interesting things to check out on MetaFilter on an hourly basis. Besides, for non-Hulu sites, Hotspot Shield works just fine.
However, posting content that not everyone can access (although MeFites residing in the US represent the majority of users on this site) seems like a bit of a lapse in etiquette, kind of like, as someone already said in this thread, posting an FPP in a language other than English.
And Christ, it's just Zach Galifianakis shaving his beard. It doesn't seem especially funny - there are waaaaaay Galifianakis funnier clips of him on YouTube anyway.
Probably recognition that what you're posting may not be available to all users is going to be enough. It's just an etiquette thing.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, it's not that big of a deal to me, anyway - there are plenty of other interesting things to check out on MetaFilter on an hourly basis. Besides, for non-Hulu sites, Hotspot Shield works just fine.
However, posting content that not everyone can access (although MeFites residing in the US represent the majority of users on this site) seems like a bit of a lapse in etiquette, kind of like, as someone already said in this thread, posting an FPP in a language other than English.
And Christ, it's just Zach Galifianakis shaving his beard. It doesn't seem especially funny - there are waaaaaay Galifianakis funnier clips of him on YouTube anyway.
Probably recognition that what you're posting may not be available to all users is going to be enough. It's just an etiquette thing.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Dear non-US MeFi users: fuck you" is not, I suggest, going to get you a warm reception.
Dammit. Now I have to re-think my upcoming "Fuck-Off You Fucking Swedish Fuckers" post!
posted by zarq at 10:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Dammit. Now I have to re-think my upcoming "Fuck-Off You Fucking Swedish Fuckers" post!
posted by zarq at 10:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Probably recognition that what you're posting may not be available to all users is going to be enough. It's just an etiquette thing.
Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Thanks. :)
posted by zarq at 10:06 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Thanks. :)
posted by zarq at 10:06 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
there are waaaaaay Galifianakis funnier clips of him on YouTube anyway.
This is the real shame of the FPP imo; the clip in question is like the least funny thing he's done.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 10:06 PM on March 8, 2010
This is the real shame of the FPP imo; the clip in question is like the least funny thing he's done.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 10:06 PM on March 8, 2010
A bit of interpersonal fuckyouery removed. Do that shit in private if you need to do it all, please.
Domain-limited content is a tricky issue and one we've talked about before; I'm sure we will keep talking about it, and I don't have any simple perfect answer to the problem handy. It would be great if there were less thread-littering complaints about it when it does come up, though; come to Metatalk forthwith if you really need to make a thing of it. That's not a new idea.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Domain-limited content is a tricky issue and one we've talked about before; I'm sure we will keep talking about it, and I don't have any simple perfect answer to the problem handy. It would be great if there were less thread-littering complaints about it when it does come up, though; come to Metatalk forthwith if you really need to make a thing of it. That's not a new idea.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Zach is hairy like a gorilla, too. It was more like a bad PETA ad, four people holding him down while the guy in the lab coat pokes in an electric razor on a stick. Horrible stuff.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010
I also really don't get the concept that someone is really trying to say "Fuck you" to me by merely posting a link to Hulu.
I also wouldn't necessarily believe that a coworker was deliberately trying to snub me if he brought in a big pile of grapefruit for everyone at the office after I had recently started taking cholesterol medicine*. Maybe he doesn't know you can't eat grapefruit, or maybe he really loves grapefruit and wants to share it with the people who can enjoy it with him, or maybe he just has a grapefruit tree in his backyard and is going to drown in grapefruit if he doesn't give some away.
Sure I would prefer to be able to watch the Hulu videos, but hey, other people can still enjoy them even if I can't.
(*I don't take cholesterol medicine, but my father does, and he loves grapefruit, and I always feel sad that he can no longer eat grapefruit due to what I consider one of the weirdest contraindications ever)
posted by that girl at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
I also wouldn't necessarily believe that a coworker was deliberately trying to snub me if he brought in a big pile of grapefruit for everyone at the office after I had recently started taking cholesterol medicine*. Maybe he doesn't know you can't eat grapefruit, or maybe he really loves grapefruit and wants to share it with the people who can enjoy it with him, or maybe he just has a grapefruit tree in his backyard and is going to drown in grapefruit if he doesn't give some away.
Sure I would prefer to be able to watch the Hulu videos, but hey, other people can still enjoy them even if I can't.
(*I don't take cholesterol medicine, but my father does, and he loves grapefruit, and I always feel sad that he can no longer eat grapefruit due to what I consider one of the weirdest contraindications ever)
posted by that girl at 10:09 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
I also really don't get the concept that someone is really trying to say "Fuck you" to me by merely posting a link to Hulu.
Although we're polite and like to prance about in red mittens, we Canadians are a pissy bunch.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:11 PM on March 8, 2010
Although we're polite and like to prance about in red mittens, we Canadians are a pissy bunch.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:11 PM on March 8, 2010
I also really don't get the concept that someone is really trying to say "Fuck you" to me by merely posting a link to Hulu.
I was trying to here, but then again, I am a bit of an ogre.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:13 PM on March 8, 2010
I was trying to here, but then again, I am a bit of an ogre.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:13 PM on March 8, 2010
In the last thread, Turgid Dahlia threatened an FPP on King Billy Cokebottle.
Now that would be a genuine Fuck You! to humanity as a whole, yours sincerely, white people over the age of 30 in Australia.
C'mon TD, you know you've got in in you
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:14 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Now that would be a genuine Fuck You! to humanity as a whole, yours sincerely, white people over the age of 30 in Australia.
C'mon TD, you know you've got in in you
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:14 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
You're just saying that so the Canadians won't feel bad.
UNTRUE. I always try to make the Canadians feel bad.
posted by louche mustachio at 10:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
UNTRUE. I always try to make the Canadians feel bad.
posted by louche mustachio at 10:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I for one am impressed by how well-attended this contentious issue thread is, late on a Monday night.
(Apologies to all who are not where it is currently late Monday night. Love! love for you guys and gals and others who are in your diverse places! Hey Norway! Winkin at ya, London! You go, Tokyo! Stay just that cool, Canberra!)
posted by longsleeves at 10:27 PM on March 8, 2010
(Apologies to all who are not where it is currently late Monday night. Love! love for you guys and gals and others who are in your diverse places! Hey Norway! Winkin at ya, London! You go, Tokyo! Stay just that cool, Canberra!)
posted by longsleeves at 10:27 PM on March 8, 2010
I didn't think the clip was that funny overall but I did find the portion where it showed simple step by step instructions on how stay young and healthy forever informative.
posted by vapidave at 10:28 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by vapidave at 10:28 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd agree that Non-US users are getting kind of cranky about links to Hulu being thrown around. Geo-IP restrictions are a real fucking drag, and watching them become increasingly popular is pretty alarming. Hotspot Shield or VPNs are not much of an answer (and I suspect that many prescribing the medicine would never take it). This is not the kind of parceled-out internet we should want to see more of in the future. If nothing else, this is worth complaining about for the sake of education: many simply don't realize yet that Hulu isn't viewable outside the US.
The BBC example suggested here and in the previous meta is entirely relevant - would a fair number of US users have a shit-fit on a SL post to iPlayer, rather than move along quietly and ignore? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't.
Also: What dhammond said. Don't blame Hulu -- blame your country's TV and radio conglomerates. They own the broadcast rights and options in your country, and they are strongly opposed to the content owners licensing out to services with potentially worldwide reach like Hulu, which could obviously undercut them pretty badly in the non-geriatric demographics. Hard to blame them - like all old media, they're just trying to forestall their day of reckoning.
posted by blackberet at 10:30 PM on March 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
The BBC example suggested here and in the previous meta is entirely relevant - would a fair number of US users have a shit-fit on a SL post to iPlayer, rather than move along quietly and ignore? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't.
Also: What dhammond said. Don't blame Hulu -- blame your country's TV and radio conglomerates. They own the broadcast rights and options in your country, and they are strongly opposed to the content owners licensing out to services with potentially worldwide reach like Hulu, which could obviously undercut them pretty badly in the non-geriatric demographics. Hard to blame them - like all old media, they're just trying to forestall their day of reckoning.
posted by blackberet at 10:30 PM on March 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
Fuck Tokyo.
Somewhere along the line Tokyo apparently became the only city in Japan. I am only slightly bitter about this. Nothing against people in Tokyo, honest.
posted by that girl at 10:32 PM on March 8, 2010
Somewhere along the line Tokyo apparently became the only city in Japan. I am only slightly bitter about this. Nothing against people in Tokyo, honest.
posted by that girl at 10:32 PM on March 8, 2010
Some more hulu programming that Canadians are missing out on:
• Starburst fruit chew ads
• All the Doctor Who episodes that the UK voted to deport
• Baywatch: Lake Erie
• Gordon Ramsey calling a hapless restauranteur a "fucking donkey" for the 47th time
• Jimmy Kimmel Live!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:39 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
• Starburst fruit chew ads
• All the Doctor Who episodes that the UK voted to deport
• Baywatch: Lake Erie
• Gordon Ramsey calling a hapless restauranteur a "fucking donkey" for the 47th time
• Jimmy Kimmel Live!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:39 PM on March 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Actually, I'm curious how people would feel about more international posts, even if there are restrictions on access or language. I would actually love more exposure to all of it.
An example: A few weeks back there was a great Chinese machinima using WoW, poking fun at the all the harsh and eclectic government efforts at censorship, and the general mess of the gaming industry. But, it was on Chinese video sites which generally aren't always accessible outside of China. It circulated quickly in China, and even some expat sites linked to it. The language, background, and video restrictions meant it wouldn't be much use to Metafilter, though. Of course, YouTube now has the video and someone prepared a crib sheet, but it still wouldn't be much enjoyable by anyone outside of the country.
Global Voices Online has something similar, where the bloggers there accumulate lots of links, translate much of them, and provide a lot of context. They tend to focus on political events, but have the occasional enjoyable regional quirk. But that's way more effort and hand-holding than goes on in Metafilter.
Personally, I would love to read about more regional best-of-the-web, even if I can't understand the language. Even if I can't access it easily. But it wouldn't work with single pithy links. The poster would need to put in lots of effort. I would love to encourage this, and would contribute where I could (though I'm weeks behind every other fad).
Would something like the above go over well on Metafilter?
posted by FuManchu at 10:53 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
An example: A few weeks back there was a great Chinese machinima using WoW, poking fun at the all the harsh and eclectic government efforts at censorship, and the general mess of the gaming industry. But, it was on Chinese video sites which generally aren't always accessible outside of China. It circulated quickly in China, and even some expat sites linked to it. The language, background, and video restrictions meant it wouldn't be much use to Metafilter, though. Of course, YouTube now has the video and someone prepared a crib sheet, but it still wouldn't be much enjoyable by anyone outside of the country.
Global Voices Online has something similar, where the bloggers there accumulate lots of links, translate much of them, and provide a lot of context. They tend to focus on political events, but have the occasional enjoyable regional quirk. But that's way more effort and hand-holding than goes on in Metafilter.
Personally, I would love to read about more regional best-of-the-web, even if I can't understand the language. Even if I can't access it easily. But it wouldn't work with single pithy links. The poster would need to put in lots of effort. I would love to encourage this, and would contribute where I could (though I'm weeks behind every other fad).
Would something like the above go over well on Metafilter?
posted by FuManchu at 10:53 PM on March 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
The BBC example suggested here and in the previous meta is entirely relevant - would a fair number of US users have a shit-fit on a SL post to iPlayer, rather than move along quietly and ignore? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't.
If I was on metafilter.co.uk, I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch about it. Or if Matthowie was a Londoner or something.
Most mefites are American, so posting not-accessible-from-the-US-material wouldn't be so much thoughtless as stupid.
posted by codswallop at 10:59 PM on March 8, 2010
If I was on metafilter.co.uk, I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch about it. Or if Matthowie was a Londoner or something.
Most mefites are American, so posting not-accessible-from-the-US-material wouldn't be so much thoughtless as stupid.
posted by codswallop at 10:59 PM on March 8, 2010
I share your taste for more regional content, FuManchu, and agree that you might need a bit of introduction but then that comes down to who you imagine your audience to be (which I was always told should be in your mind when presenting anything).
I've stuck links up in the past that didn't make too many concessions to the determinedly insular but that I felt would be accessible or interesting to my imagined ideal MeFite, an open-minded and intelligent person who doesn't need their hand held too tightly. Of course, the subsequent thread has usually been a massive derail or consisted of three comments total, two by me, but we live in hope.
posted by Abiezer at 11:00 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've stuck links up in the past that didn't make too many concessions to the determinedly insular but that I felt would be accessible or interesting to my imagined ideal MeFite, an open-minded and intelligent person who doesn't need their hand held too tightly. Of course, the subsequent thread has usually been a massive derail or consisted of three comments total, two by me, but we live in hope.
posted by Abiezer at 11:00 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
If nothing else, this is worth complaining about for the sake of education: many simply don't realize yet that Hulu isn't viewable outside the US.
This.
I don't want to deprive US users of cool Hulu content, but I would like them all to be aware of the problem. It would make them more likely to either provide an alternate Youtube link to the same content or a detailed enough description that I can find the content elsewhere through my own nefarious means.
"Stay just that cool, Canberra!"
Ooh, harsh.
posted by the latin mouse at 11:26 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
This.
I don't want to deprive US users of cool Hulu content, but I would like them all to be aware of the problem. It would make them more likely to either provide an alternate Youtube link to the same content or a detailed enough description that I can find the content elsewhere through my own nefarious means.
"Stay just that cool, Canberra!"
Ooh, harsh.
posted by the latin mouse at 11:26 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Geo-IP restrictions are a real fucking drag, and watching them become increasingly popular is pretty alarming ... This is not the kind of parceled-out internet we should want to see more of in the future.
A-bloody-men, blackberet.
The reason I said 'fuck you, Hulu' (and previously in other threads, 'fuck you, YouTube'), is because of the incredible arrogance of the entertainment industry in the Excited States, ie. we are the Lords of Creation, and you will bow down to us.
posted by bwg at 11:43 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
A-bloody-men, blackberet.
The reason I said 'fuck you, Hulu' (and previously in other threads, 'fuck you, YouTube'), is because of the incredible arrogance of the entertainment industry in the Excited States, ie. we are the Lords of Creation, and you will bow down to us.
posted by bwg at 11:43 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Even if someone posts an alternate YouTube link, there's a pretty good chance it will not be viewable in countries other than the posters. This post for example, has YouTube links that those of us in Germany are blocked from viewing and that sort of thing seems to be accelerating as media companies work more closely with YouTube to license content for use in certain countries and take down content that isn't licensed.
It's annoying, but I don't think there's a real solution.
posted by cmonkey at 11:47 PM on March 8, 2010
It's annoying, but I don't think there's a real solution.
posted by cmonkey at 11:47 PM on March 8, 2010
Don't blame Hulu -- blame your country's TV and radio conglomerates
Well, the content owners have the ultimate say in this by how they structure the licenses for their content. And at Hulu, much (most?) of the content is owned by the conglomerates who own Hulu itself (NBC, Fox, and ABC). So I'm certain the people working at Hulu have no control over this, yes, but the owners of Hulu do.
posted by wildcrdj at 11:50 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, the content owners have the ultimate say in this by how they structure the licenses for their content. And at Hulu, much (most?) of the content is owned by the conglomerates who own Hulu itself (NBC, Fox, and ABC). So I'm certain the people working at Hulu have no control over this, yes, but the owners of Hulu do.
posted by wildcrdj at 11:50 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I see an FPP full of HULU or YouTube links that I can't open but that I try to open and then can't because I am no longer in U! S! A!, I cry. I cry loud and long. I pull out some of my hair and I wail. By now my office-mates know what I'm on about so it's not such a big deal, but for a while there it was touch and go. I've wept so many bitter bitter tears - and lately it seems even more and more. *SIGH*
I just thought you should know. No no, I'm not saying you have to change anything - keep posting from the Hulu, it makes all those people happy *sniff*. And that's good. I just thought you should know. I have to get some more tissues now. Excuse me.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:27 AM on March 9, 2010
I just thought you should know. No no, I'm not saying you have to change anything - keep posting from the Hulu, it makes all those people happy *sniff*. And that's good. I just thought you should know. I have to get some more tissues now. Excuse me.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:27 AM on March 9, 2010
The BBC example suggested here and in the previous meta is entirely relevant - would a fair number of US users have a shit-fit on a SL post to iPlayer, rather than move along quietly and ignore? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't.
We don't have to hypothesize.
Introduction: Somebody posted a video only viewable in the UK
Methods: I read the comments in the thread.
Results: People complained
Discussion: People don't like being left out, but it happens.
posted by one_bean at 12:48 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
We don't have to hypothesize.
Introduction: Somebody posted a video only viewable in the UK
Methods: I read the comments in the thread.
Results: People complained
Discussion: People don't like being left out, but it happens.
posted by one_bean at 12:48 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Title: Followup research that should've been included in original paper.
I: Somebody posted a link when iPlayer was launched
M: I read the comments in the thread.
R: People complained.
D: People don't like being left out, but it happens.
posted by one_bean at 12:54 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I: Somebody posted a link when iPlayer was launched
M: I read the comments in the thread.
R: People complained.
D: People don't like being left out, but it happens.
posted by one_bean at 12:54 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Dammit. Now I have to re-think my upcoming "Fuck-Off You Fucking Swedish Fuckers" post!
Oh yeah? This is what i think of your upcoming "Fuck-Off You Fucking Swedish Fuckers" post!!!! ;)
posted by soundofsuburbia at 2:04 AM on March 9, 2010
Oh yeah? This is what i think of your upcoming "Fuck-Off You Fucking Swedish Fuckers" post!!!! ;)
posted by soundofsuburbia at 2:04 AM on March 9, 2010
It would make them more likely to either provide an alternate Youtube link to the same content or a detailed enough description that I can find the content elsewhere through my own nefarious means.
It would be great if people could start posting detailed descriptions of Zach Galifianakis standup routines, if only to determine if it would make any sense:
A sublime prank on an SNL audience: Zach Galifianakis shaves his beard
posted by KokuRyu at 2:30 AM on March 9, 2010
It would be great if people could start posting detailed descriptions of Zach Galifianakis standup routines, if only to determine if it would make any sense:
A sublime prank on an SNL audience: Zach Galifianakis shaves his beard
posted by KokuRyu at 2:30 AM on March 9, 2010
Tough shit, honestly. Hulu has great content sometimes, and so does the BBC (which Americans can't watch). I don't think its the responsibility of the poster to make sure that every single person in the world can view every one of their links. If you don't like it, take it up with Hulu.
posted by empath at 3:22 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by empath at 3:22 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tomorrow I'm going to link to a show on ABCs iView (only viewable inside Australia) and we'll have the Mirror Universe version of this thread, with about 200 Yanks complaining that the video wasn't viewable inside the US.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:39 AM on March 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:39 AM on March 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I can't use Hulu, so I'd appreciate if someone could tell me, this prank, was it sublime?
posted by Elmore at 3:47 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Elmore at 3:47 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
on a Monday night.
Or on a Tuesday afternoon, you insensitive clod!
posted by pompomtom at 3:54 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Or on a Tuesday afternoon, you insensitive clod!
posted by pompomtom at 3:54 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
This comes up every few months, doesn't it?
I'm in the UK, and can't see some US content. If I have a problem with this I should stop reading a US site. Or, more productively, wait a few minutes and another great MetaFilter link will appear.
That said, I'd love a "(Hulu)" note after links like we have "(YouTube)" - thank you all in advance!
I also try to spell "color"incorrectly since this is a US site. But that's just me.
posted by alasdair at 4:21 AM on March 9, 2010
I'm in the UK, and can't see some US content. If I have a problem with this I should stop reading a US site. Or, more productively, wait a few minutes and another great MetaFilter link will appear.
That said, I'd love a "(Hulu)" note after links like we have "(YouTube)" - thank you all in advance!
I also try to spell "color"
posted by alasdair at 4:21 AM on March 9, 2010
I suppose it depends on whether Metafilter is an American site or a global one.
It's the internet, so I guess its global, regardless of whatever TLD the domain name ends in.
posted by tapeguy at 4:46 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's the internet, so I guess its global, regardless of whatever TLD the domain name ends in.
posted by tapeguy at 4:46 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I suppose it depends on whether Metafilter is an American site or a global one.
It's a global site, with a majority American membership.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:35 AM on March 9, 2010
It's a global site, with a majority American membership.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:35 AM on March 9, 2010
Tomorrow I'm going to link to a show on ABCs iView (only viewable inside Australia) and we'll have the Mirror Universe version of this thread, with about 200 Yanks complaining that the video wasn't viewable inside the US.
Missed one bean's links, eh? Just scroll up a bit. I assure you they are there.
Seriously, just post the link and let people complain. Bask in your ethnological superiority.
posted by muddgirl at 5:45 AM on March 9, 2010
Missed one bean's links, eh? Just scroll up a bit. I assure you they are there.
Seriously, just post the link and let people complain. Bask in your ethnological superiority.
posted by muddgirl at 5:45 AM on March 9, 2010
There have been a few clips lately that I couldn't see from here in Philadelphia, USA, Earth. One was the Australian ABC vaginoplasty thing, and the other was the Canadian hockey 4-seconds-of-glory thing.
Know what I did? I scrolled down the thread a bit til I got to the part where people had posted alternate links that were visible inside the US! I did this without being a dick at all, except to my cat! But fuck that feline banshee, SRSLY.
Anyway, my point is, sure, if it's Hulu or ABC or CBC or something that you think may be restricted by location, it's good for the poster to drop a little note, but don't freak out because you can't see something right away - it is almost a certainty that someone here will find an alternate link and post it.
posted by Mister_A at 5:48 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Know what I did? I scrolled down the thread a bit til I got to the part where people had posted alternate links that were visible inside the US! I did this without being a dick at all, except to my cat! But fuck that feline banshee, SRSLY.
Anyway, my point is, sure, if it's Hulu or ABC or CBC or something that you think may be restricted by location, it's good for the poster to drop a little note, but don't freak out because you can't see something right away - it is almost a certainty that someone here will find an alternate link and post it.
posted by Mister_A at 5:48 AM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I live in the People's Republic of Lower Manhattan. We can view anything. Please don't move here.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:57 AM on March 9, 2010
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:57 AM on March 9, 2010
If I was on metafilter.co.uk, I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch about it.
Just because we're on metafilter and we could overthink a plate of beans: .us domain names.
Anyway, if a link is Hulu-exclusive, I don't mind. If one could find the same link on YT or vimeo, a link there would be preferable.
posted by ersatz at 6:26 AM on March 9, 2010
Just because we're on metafilter and we could overthink a plate of beans: .us domain names.
Anyway, if a link is Hulu-exclusive, I don't mind. If one could find the same link on YT or vimeo, a link there would be preferable.
posted by ersatz at 6:26 AM on March 9, 2010
If I was on metafilter.co.uk, I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch about it.
Obviously not, because you'd be wearing knickers.
posted by rtha at 6:31 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
Obviously not, because you'd be wearing knickers.
posted by rtha at 6:31 AM on March 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
There are about eight different issues at play here and it's probably going to get worse as our beloved corporate gods get better at doing for the internet what they did for television and radio.
Most of us have no way to test where things we link to can be viewed and want everyone to see the links were putting up or we wouldn't put them on the internet. Getting surly with the person who posts something because (website name here) has decided that only people with even DNS addresses get to see it (or whatever) isn't going to improve the quality of Metafilter unless by improve you mean reduce Metafilter to the lowest common denominator just like our beloved corporate gods have done for television and radio and are working on for the internet.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:01 AM on March 9, 2010
Most of us have no way to test where things we link to can be viewed and want everyone to see the links were putting up or we wouldn't put them on the internet. Getting surly with the person who posts something because (website name here) has decided that only people with even DNS addresses get to see it (or whatever) isn't going to improve the quality of Metafilter unless by improve you mean reduce Metafilter to the lowest common denominator just like our beloved corporate gods have done for television and radio and are working on for the internet.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:01 AM on March 9, 2010
From the "We don't have to hypothesize." link above, jessamyn writes:
posted by pracowity at 7:11 AM on March 9, 2010
[thanks for the extra links - we'd appreciate if people added them rather than deleting threads that have links that don't work, thanks. metatalk is decent for further comments]Does that mean threads with non-US links will be deleted if people don't post alternative links for Americans?
posted by pracowity at 7:11 AM on March 9, 2010
augh mid-stream pov change sorry
This is my favorite comment mistake awareness subsidiary comment of all time.
posted by Babblesort at 7:48 AM on March 9, 2010
This is my favorite comment mistake awareness subsidiary comment of all time.
posted by Babblesort at 7:48 AM on March 9, 2010
Does that mean threads with non-US links will be deleted if people don't post alternative links for Americans?
We have no firm policy on it, just as we have no firm policy about US-specific links or about Silverlight links or foreign-language links or so on. In any of those cases, the limited viewing audience is likely to cause some friction, and in a lot of cases more in-thread complaints than I'd like to see; in any of those cases, it's awesome when the poster (or, barring that, a helpful commenter or three) can provide alternatives or context or other supplementary materials so that the fundamental restriction built in to the link is mitigated somewhat for interested folks thus affected.
We deal with the stuff case-by-case, because generally whether a tricky post is going to work depends a lot more on the specific composition and presentation and context of the thing than on any bright-line rule about regional or other reader restrictions.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on March 9, 2010
We have no firm policy on it, just as we have no firm policy about US-specific links or about Silverlight links or foreign-language links or so on. In any of those cases, the limited viewing audience is likely to cause some friction, and in a lot of cases more in-thread complaints than I'd like to see; in any of those cases, it's awesome when the poster (or, barring that, a helpful commenter or three) can provide alternatives or context or other supplementary materials so that the fundamental restriction built in to the link is mitigated somewhat for interested folks thus affected.
We deal with the stuff case-by-case, because generally whether a tricky post is going to work depends a lot more on the specific composition and presentation and context of the thing than on any bright-line rule about regional or other reader restrictions.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on March 9, 2010
I suppose it depends on whether Metafilter is an American site or a global one.
American. Your speech is freer.
posted by alasdair at 8:15 AM on March 9, 2010
American. Your speech is freer.
posted by alasdair at 8:15 AM on March 9, 2010
blackberet writes "Geo-IP restrictions are a real fucking drag, and watching them become increasingly popular is pretty alarming. "
And Metafilter shouldn't be pushing traffic to sites that engage this way, IMO.
Kid Charlemagne writes "There are about eight different issues at play here and it's probably going to get worse as our beloved corporate gods get better at doing for the internet what they did for television and radio."
I'm really tempted to set up a mefi specific tracker with the theory that the contents of any given link would be available there. That way everyone who is blocked from content would know where to go to get it without the need to actually link to a torrent in the thread.
posted by Mitheral at 8:58 AM on March 9, 2010
And Metafilter shouldn't be pushing traffic to sites that engage this way, IMO.
Kid Charlemagne writes "There are about eight different issues at play here and it's probably going to get worse as our beloved corporate gods get better at doing for the internet what they did for television and radio."
I'm really tempted to set up a mefi specific tracker with the theory that the contents of any given link would be available there. That way everyone who is blocked from content would know where to go to get it without the need to actually link to a torrent in the thread.
posted by Mitheral at 8:58 AM on March 9, 2010
And Metafilter shouldn't be pushing traffic to sites that engage this way, IMO.
Mefi is not an advocacy platform; you are welcome to choose not to link to those sites yourself, but it's unrealistic to expect the userbase to organize around such a principle or to expect us as mods to enforce it.
I agree that it's crappy behavior on the part of the media owners—I don't like it either—and I think the best sort of post is one that doesn't even nudge up against that sort of problem.
But there's not going to be a ban on such links, and there's no proportionally reasonable sure-fire way to educate the whole posting userbase about the subject. And while it's fine for folks to discuss the issue and present their objections civilly (and metatalk is a good place for that, certainly), where it gets to the point of obnoxiously derailing thread on the blue the complainants are no longer remotely on the side of the angels.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mefi is not an advocacy platform; you are welcome to choose not to link to those sites yourself, but it's unrealistic to expect the userbase to organize around such a principle or to expect us as mods to enforce it.
I agree that it's crappy behavior on the part of the media owners—I don't like it either—and I think the best sort of post is one that doesn't even nudge up against that sort of problem.
But there's not going to be a ban on such links, and there's no proportionally reasonable sure-fire way to educate the whole posting userbase about the subject. And while it's fine for folks to discuss the issue and present their objections civilly (and metatalk is a good place for that, certainly), where it gets to the point of obnoxiously derailing thread on the blue the complainants are no longer remotely on the side of the angels.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
And I seem to be mildly cranky this morning. To be clear, Mitheral, that's general griping, not intended as a rebuke to any problematic specific behavior of yours on this front. I don't think I've seen any.
What happened in the thread that prompted this is a good example of what does frustrate me, and it's ridiculous that I had to chop as much should-be-in-metatalk stuff out of a thread as I did just to keep it readable.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:07 AM on March 9, 2010
What happened in the thread that prompted this is a good example of what does frustrate me, and it's ridiculous that I had to chop as much should-be-in-metatalk stuff out of a thread as I did just to keep it readable.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:07 AM on March 9, 2010
No problem. I don't expect those kinds of links to be deleted, I not even calling for it. Content blocking via geolocation steps on my information wants to be free bunions. I just think that users should at least consider that not everyone can view their content when posting to hulu. zarq brings up a good point in asking whether they should make a weaker post by not including Hulu in their post. The reality is that for everyone outside the US the post is weaker and in an irritating way.
The constant pet peeve irritation on this front for me is people clever linking to the Daily Show in comments eg: "I think this sums it up." Not only can I not view the clip, there is no way to ascertain which episode it is so I cantorview it on the Canadian site.
posted by Mitheral at 9:26 AM on March 9, 2010
The constant pet peeve irritation on this front for me is people clever linking to the Daily Show in comments eg: "I think this sums it up." Not only can I not view the clip, there is no way to ascertain which episode it is so I can
posted by Mitheral at 9:26 AM on March 9, 2010
Don't blame Hulu -- blame your country's TV and radio conglomerates.
TechCrunch: "Hulu is an online video provider held by NBC Universal, News Corporation, and, as of April 2009, Disney."
posted by acro at 10:24 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
TechCrunch: "Hulu is an online video provider held by NBC Universal, News Corporation, and, as of April 2009, Disney."
posted by acro at 10:24 AM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The reason I said 'fuck you, Hulu' (and previously in other threads, 'fuck you, YouTube'), is because of the incredible arrogance of the entertainment industry in the Excited States, ie. we are the Lords of Creation, and you will bow down to us.
Maybe if you guys could afford film instead of recording everything on 80's era handy-cams we would feel differently*
*No we wouldn't, you talk funny.
posted by Mick at 1:15 PM on March 9, 2010
Maybe if you guys could afford film instead of recording everything on 80's era handy-cams we would feel differently*
*No we wouldn't, you talk funny.
posted by Mick at 1:15 PM on March 9, 2010
heyho: although I've demonstrated a general lack of cluelessness and dickity-ness here and in the original thread, let me attempt to redeem myself; you could give the Chrome browser a shot. It appears to have less overhead than Safari.
From this discussion it would appear to be a persistent problem with flash and os x that doesn't consistently appear, making it hard to fix.
Sorry, that doesn't really help.
posted by mecran01 at 4:13 PM on March 9, 2010
From this discussion it would appear to be a persistent problem with flash and os x that doesn't consistently appear, making it hard to fix.
Sorry, that doesn't really help.
posted by mecran01 at 4:13 PM on March 9, 2010
Does that mean threads with non-US links will be deleted if people don't post alternative links for Americans?
No.
If I recall what was going on in that thread correctly, it seemed like people were being like "GRAR, you should have linked to this instead. This post should be deleted!" and what I was trying to say in my dorky way is "hey it's great if people add links to a post so that more people on MeFi can see the content, but there's no reason to delete this post and replace it with one with more/better links if people can add links in thread" or something.
So, yeah. Similar things happen when people make posts in other languages [which happens far less frequently]. We leave them alone unless we think they're stunty and some people love them and a lot of people (I suspect) don't read them.
Here are the data points we are dealing with...
- MeFi is a global site with a majority of users being English speakers in the US but large populations outside the US
- Often people do not know that the content they can view is not viewable to other people. While more education about this is a great idea, it's not going to solve this problem. Treating people who genuinely didn't know as if they were people who genuinely didn't care isn't that cool.
- Being all GRAR in a thread that has this problem is so much less productive than seeing if maybe you can find an accessible link for your fellow residents
- I will add a link to the hotspot shield page to the FAQ which may be helpful for some people
And yes, we think this is a sucky move for media owners to make and we'll encourage people to circumvent it, but unless it turns into a huge problem, we're unlikely to make big changes to fix this, though we'll happily promote ways of end running it.
I'd love to see a Greaemonkey script that would tell me "hey this content may not be available to some viewers, click here to try to find other versions" or "this is not available to you, click here for some workarounds" Can someone outside the US tell me if this works for Google Video? Or if it's even still relevant for GV>
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:37 PM on March 9, 2010
No.
If I recall what was going on in that thread correctly, it seemed like people were being like "GRAR, you should have linked to this instead. This post should be deleted!" and what I was trying to say in my dorky way is "hey it's great if people add links to a post so that more people on MeFi can see the content, but there's no reason to delete this post and replace it with one with more/better links if people can add links in thread" or something.
So, yeah. Similar things happen when people make posts in other languages [which happens far less frequently]. We leave them alone unless we think they're stunty and some people love them and a lot of people (I suspect) don't read them.
Here are the data points we are dealing with...
- MeFi is a global site with a majority of users being English speakers in the US but large populations outside the US
- Often people do not know that the content they can view is not viewable to other people. While more education about this is a great idea, it's not going to solve this problem. Treating people who genuinely didn't know as if they were people who genuinely didn't care isn't that cool.
- Being all GRAR in a thread that has this problem is so much less productive than seeing if maybe you can find an accessible link for your fellow residents
- I will add a link to the hotspot shield page to the FAQ which may be helpful for some people
And yes, we think this is a sucky move for media owners to make and we'll encourage people to circumvent it, but unless it turns into a huge problem, we're unlikely to make big changes to fix this, though we'll happily promote ways of end running it.
I'd love to see a Greaemonkey script that would tell me "hey this content may not be available to some viewers, click here to try to find other versions" or "this is not available to you, click here for some workarounds" Can someone outside the US tell me if this works for Google Video? Or if it's even still relevant for GV>
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:37 PM on March 9, 2010
It wasn't thoughtful to post a FPP that was only available in one country (assuming the original poster had NO IDEA that Hulu is US-only), but the level of hate coming from some US posters in this thread is mind-boggling to me and quite honestly, making me re-think participating in mefi if it is so unwelcome to people who choose not to live in the the US. This attitude has ramped up lately and it makes me feel really uncomfortable; I'd rather be in a community that is a bit more enlightened.
posted by saucysault at 9:45 PM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 9:45 PM on March 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
the level of hate coming from some US posters in this thread is mind-boggling to me and quite honestly, making me re-think participating in mefi if it is so unwelcome to people who choose not to live in the the US. This attitude has ramped up lately and it makes me feel really uncomfortable; I'd rather be in a community that is a bit more enlightened.
Oh for the love of all that's holy, don't tell them that!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:40 PM on March 9, 2010
Oh for the love of all that's holy, don't tell them that!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:40 PM on March 9, 2010
but the level of hate coming from some US posters in this thread is mind-boggling to me and quite honestly, making me re-think participating in mefi if it is so unwelcome to people who choose not to live in the the US.
I choose not to live in the US and I don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I mean, "level of hate"? What?
posted by cmonkey at 11:03 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I choose not to live in the US and I don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I mean, "level of hate"? What?
posted by cmonkey at 11:03 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
but unless it turns into a huge problem, we're unlikely to make big changes to fix this, though we'll happily promote ways of end running it.
Huge problem for who? Also, aren't you already saying that the "GRAR" in that thread is a pretty big problem? Finally, it would be pretty easy for MetaFilter to notify posters that they are about to post something that has access restrictions -- anything from hulu.com, let the poster know. Isn't there already a double post detector that looks at URLs and lets posters know of potential problems?
As I said before:
posted by Chuckles at 11:46 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Huge problem for who? Also, aren't you already saying that the "GRAR" in that thread is a pretty big problem? Finally, it would be pretty easy for MetaFilter to notify posters that they are about to post something that has access restrictions -- anything from hulu.com, let the poster know. Isn't there already a double post detector that looks at URLs and lets posters know of potential problems?
As I said before:
Metafilter: This site is by Americans and for Americans.On a related note, while visiting the US during the winter olympics, I was very disappointed to learn that CTV (the host broadcaster) content wasn't available. Don Duguid and Colleen Jones know what they are talking about--thankfully NBC was enlightened enough to hire a mostly Canadian team of broadcasters--but they just aren't as good as Ray Turnbull and Linda Moore. And come on, Vic Rauter kicks ass!
MetaFilter is either what "we" want it to be, or perhaps what the mods want it to be. Keeping half hearted single link comedy central or hulu posts around to rub the world's nose in the fact that all the mods are American is absolutely a way to make sure it ends up being that way.
There are always exceptions. However, I think the default mod action should be to delete this kind of post unless it is exceptional.
posted by Chuckles at 11:46 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Along with the whole thing about foreign language sites.. We don't allow links to pay sites, right?
Honestly, it would be so easy to take a more enlightened position on this issue. The continued insistence that it isn't a big deal is really disappointing.
posted by Chuckles at 11:52 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Honestly, it would be so easy to take a more enlightened position on this issue. The continued insistence that it isn't a big deal is really disappointing.
posted by Chuckles at 11:52 PM on March 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It wasn't thoughtful to post a FPP that was only available in one country (assuming the original poster had NO IDEA that Hulu is US-only), but the level of hate coming from some US posters in this thread is mind-boggling to me and quite honestly, making me re-think participating in mefi if it is so unwelcome to people who choose not to live in the the US. This attitude has ramped up lately and it makes me feel really uncomfortable; I'd rather be in a community that is a bit more enlightened.
It's not hate, it's irritation. The complaint here is very "If I can't have it, NO ONE CAN". It's childish and entitled. If hulu links bother you that much, get a greasemonkey script that filters them out for you. Otherwise, let the rest of us enjoy them. Not every post on metafilter is something every will enjoy. It's just the nature of the site.
Along with the whole thing about foreign language sites.. We don't allow links to pay sites, right?
Foreign language sites and pay sets would be inaccessible to the vast majority of mefi users. I can't find the thread where mathowie posted the stats, but I believe that something like 80% of metafilter's page views are in the US. This problem impacts a minority of people that view the site.
Do you also propose that we ban links to software that requires windows to run? I think the percentage of Mac and Linux users is probably about equal to the percentage of non-Americans on the site.
posted by empath at 1:37 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not hate, it's irritation. The complaint here is very "If I can't have it, NO ONE CAN". It's childish and entitled. If hulu links bother you that much, get a greasemonkey script that filters them out for you. Otherwise, let the rest of us enjoy them. Not every post on metafilter is something every will enjoy. It's just the nature of the site.
Along with the whole thing about foreign language sites.. We don't allow links to pay sites, right?
Foreign language sites and pay sets would be inaccessible to the vast majority of mefi users. I can't find the thread where mathowie posted the stats, but I believe that something like 80% of metafilter's page views are in the US. This problem impacts a minority of people that view the site.
Do you also propose that we ban links to software that requires windows to run? I think the percentage of Mac and Linux users is probably about equal to the percentage of non-Americans on the site.
posted by empath at 1:37 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
but the level of hate coming from some US posters in this thread is mind-boggling to me and quite honestly, making me re-think participating in mefi if it is so unwelcome to people who choose not to live in the the US.
If Antarcticans can't be bothered to work out their licensing deals with Sony and Disney, let 'em eat snow.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:43 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
If Antarcticans can't be bothered to work out their licensing deals with Sony and Disney, let 'em eat snow.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:43 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Honestly, it would be so easy to take a more enlightened position on this issue. The continued insistence that it isn't a big deal is really disappointing."
Maybe the code can be enlightened but I doubt all 40,000 odd members can or really need be.
Hell, lots of things are posted that concern subjects so specialized that the content of the post itself makes it inaccessible to a large percentage of the userbase. I trust that people want to share when they make an FP post and that's enough.
Maybe the code can be enlightened but I doubt all 40,000 odd members can or really need be.
Hell, lots of things are posted that concern subjects so specialized that the content of the post itself makes it inaccessible to a large percentage of the userbase. I trust that people want to share when they make an FP post and that's enough.
So, no big deal.posted by vapidave at 6:05 AM on March 10, 2010
Huge problem for who?
The userbase in general re: the contents of the front page in general. Metafilter is not a hulu.com link aggregator; that stuff (along with various other things that are differently restricted either technically or pragmatically for different groups of readers) composes a small portion of what gets posted here on a weekly basis.
Also, aren't you already saying that the "GRAR" in that thread is a pretty big problem?
That's a problem of people not dealing with stuff the way the guidelines say they should, i.e. taking derails and metacommentary to Metatalk promptly. We're not going to ban links to region-restricted content, or posts containing same, in celebration of people's willingness to crap in threads.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:54 AM on March 10, 2010
The userbase in general re: the contents of the front page in general. Metafilter is not a hulu.com link aggregator; that stuff (along with various other things that are differently restricted either technically or pragmatically for different groups of readers) composes a small portion of what gets posted here on a weekly basis.
Also, aren't you already saying that the "GRAR" in that thread is a pretty big problem?
That's a problem of people not dealing with stuff the way the guidelines say they should, i.e. taking derails and metacommentary to Metatalk promptly. We're not going to ban links to region-restricted content, or posts containing same, in celebration of people's willingness to crap in threads.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:54 AM on March 10, 2010
The userbase in general
A circular argument though, right? As I expressed, the the userbase is going to reflect the policies of the site. Make it unfriendly for international users (or in this case probably just Canadian users, because Canadians are the only ones many of these sites bother blocking), and you will drive those users away. I'm pretty sure this principal was both established in the theory sense, and demonstrated in practice, during the whole sexism debate.
That's a problem of people not dealing with stuff the way the guidelines say they should, i.e. taking derails and metacommentary to Metatalk promptly. We're not going to ban links to region-restricted content, or posts containing same, in celebration of people's willingness to crap in threads.
I'm pretty sure other types of posts have been stopped for that reason.. Israel-Palastine, for example, gets a very high bar because if it isn't an exceptional post, it causes more problems than it is worth.
posted by Chuckles at 7:23 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
A circular argument though, right? As I expressed, the the userbase is going to reflect the policies of the site. Make it unfriendly for international users (or in this case probably just Canadian users, because Canadians are the only ones many of these sites bother blocking), and you will drive those users away. I'm pretty sure this principal was both established in the theory sense, and demonstrated in practice, during the whole sexism debate.
That's a problem of people not dealing with stuff the way the guidelines say they should, i.e. taking derails and metacommentary to Metatalk promptly. We're not going to ban links to region-restricted content, or posts containing same, in celebration of people's willingness to crap in threads.
I'm pretty sure other types of posts have been stopped for that reason.. Israel-Palastine, for example, gets a very high bar because if it isn't an exceptional post, it causes more problems than it is worth.
posted by Chuckles at 7:23 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Foreign language sites and pay sets would be inaccessible to the vast majority of mefi users. I can't find the thread where mathowie posted the stats, but I believe that something like 80% of metafilter's page views are in the US. This problem impacts a minority of people that view the site.
Not true, empath. For example, consider links to academic resources. Almost any user who is a student or university staff, as well as a whole passel of other users have full access to those resources. That could easily be 50% of current MetaFilter users, but we still don't allow those sites. The policy until this issue has been that links should be accessible to all users.
As for the language issue, it was established as policy a long time ago that this is an english site. That might exclude a lot of people, but I think it is obvious why opening the site to other languages is completely impractical.
posted by Chuckles at 7:30 AM on March 10, 2010
Not true, empath. For example, consider links to academic resources. Almost any user who is a student or university staff, as well as a whole passel of other users have full access to those resources. That could easily be 50% of current MetaFilter users, but we still don't allow those sites. The policy until this issue has been that links should be accessible to all users.
As for the language issue, it was established as policy a long time ago that this is an english site. That might exclude a lot of people, but I think it is obvious why opening the site to other languages is completely impractical.
posted by Chuckles at 7:30 AM on March 10, 2010
And to be completely clear about what I'm arguing for.. Have the posting page screen for hulu and comedy central posts (along with whatever other top level domains cause problems, like CTV), when one is detected bring up a warning like:
Due to copyright restrictions, the link you are trying to post will not be accessible by all users. Please consider finding another link to the material. Note that if you continue with this post it runs a higher than normal risk of being deleted.posted by Chuckles at 7:35 AM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Note that if you continue with this post it runs a higher than normal risk of being deleted.
That's actually a policy change, however, not just a warning. Maybe FishBike can run the stats, but do you see these posts happening an awful lot more? Is it really impossible to get to Hulu content or do people have to use proxies? In my dream world, people could post links to academic content as well if there were ways to give people access to it that didn't involve handing over my own password to the content.
In a general sense, I'm with you, links to US-only content [or even no-Canadians-plz content] that are the only link in a post, not so great. It seems to me [possible confirmation bias ahead] that in most cases someone in the thread posts a similar non-location-specific link. We'll update the post if the OP sends one along. However, in a multi-link post where one link is inaccessible, say, I have less of an issue. And as someone who doesn't read maybe 80% of MeFi proper anyways, I may just be looking through this with a deeply personal lens where if I wanted to see it, I could make the tech changes to be able to see it. If not, no big deal, I don't read most of the stuff anyhow.
Reading more along, if Hulu is really US-only [and my apologies for not really digging into this more beforehand, I assumed it was more like YouTube, somewhat mercurial and random who can see what] then yeah a single Hulu link post is problematic in the way you describe, Chuckles, which I think puts this firmly in the "okay let's see if this is a growing trend and then figure out what to do about it" arena. My apologies for not understanding the way Hulu was different from other video sites.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:50 AM on March 10, 2010
That's actually a policy change, however, not just a warning. Maybe FishBike can run the stats, but do you see these posts happening an awful lot more? Is it really impossible to get to Hulu content or do people have to use proxies? In my dream world, people could post links to academic content as well if there were ways to give people access to it that didn't involve handing over my own password to the content.
In a general sense, I'm with you, links to US-only content [or even no-Canadians-plz content] that are the only link in a post, not so great. It seems to me [possible confirmation bias ahead] that in most cases someone in the thread posts a similar non-location-specific link. We'll update the post if the OP sends one along. However, in a multi-link post where one link is inaccessible, say, I have less of an issue. And as someone who doesn't read maybe 80% of MeFi proper anyways, I may just be looking through this with a deeply personal lens where if I wanted to see it, I could make the tech changes to be able to see it. If not, no big deal, I don't read most of the stuff anyhow.
Reading more along, if Hulu is really US-only [and my apologies for not really digging into this more beforehand, I assumed it was more like YouTube, somewhat mercurial and random who can see what] then yeah a single Hulu link post is problematic in the way you describe, Chuckles, which I think puts this firmly in the "okay let's see if this is a growing trend and then figure out what to do about it" arena. My apologies for not understanding the way Hulu was different from other video sites.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:50 AM on March 10, 2010
I'm pretty sure this principal was both established in the theory sense, and demonstrated in practice, during the whole sexism debate.
and
I'm pretty sure other types of posts have been stopped for that reason.. Israel-Palastine, for example, gets a very high bar because if it isn't an exceptional post, it causes more problems than it is worth.
Linking to region-restricted stuff is an issue not reasonably comparable to either (a) casual sexist language or (b) deeply charged ideological/political subjects; all bad behavior is not created equal, and the frustration, however legitimate, of not being able to watch a video clip is in a much different weight class than those other examples. I don't know how else to say that: the comparison is not helpful to your argument, and is not going to help move us from a case-by-case Keeping An Eye On It territory, which is where we are right now with trying to judge these things and the general trend as it comes along, into Banning Links To Region-Restricted Stuff territory.
Again: I think we actually pretty much agree that the region-restricted stuff is not great, and that posts that are built with an understanding of that and an attempt to route around the frustration it causes are better than those that don't. But we've never taken a hard-line "all x is forbidden" line on anything around here, and region-restricted media stuff is not going to be where that starts. So when you've said and repeated in this thread that e.g.
However, I think the default mod action should be to delete this kind of post unless it is exceptional.
that's just not something we're going to be able to get with you on for this general question. It's always going to be more of a context-specific process.
I don't think the idea of a warning note is terrible, for what it's worth. There's potentially frustrating maintenance and education costs that comes with it though, as we'd have to build out a list of trouble sites and either track and present the limitations of each individual or provide a potentially too-broad or vague warning for a lot of them, and deal with users needing more information about the whole thing in the process as well.
I think certainly we can take another look at what we've got in the FAQ and see if there's not some way to further address some of this stuff in helpful way.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on March 10, 2010
and
I'm pretty sure other types of posts have been stopped for that reason.. Israel-Palastine, for example, gets a very high bar because if it isn't an exceptional post, it causes more problems than it is worth.
Linking to region-restricted stuff is an issue not reasonably comparable to either (a) casual sexist language or (b) deeply charged ideological/political subjects; all bad behavior is not created equal, and the frustration, however legitimate, of not being able to watch a video clip is in a much different weight class than those other examples. I don't know how else to say that: the comparison is not helpful to your argument, and is not going to help move us from a case-by-case Keeping An Eye On It territory, which is where we are right now with trying to judge these things and the general trend as it comes along, into Banning Links To Region-Restricted Stuff territory.
Again: I think we actually pretty much agree that the region-restricted stuff is not great, and that posts that are built with an understanding of that and an attempt to route around the frustration it causes are better than those that don't. But we've never taken a hard-line "all x is forbidden" line on anything around here, and region-restricted media stuff is not going to be where that starts. So when you've said and repeated in this thread that e.g.
However, I think the default mod action should be to delete this kind of post unless it is exceptional.
that's just not something we're going to be able to get with you on for this general question. It's always going to be more of a context-specific process.
I don't think the idea of a warning note is terrible, for what it's worth. There's potentially frustrating maintenance and education costs that comes with it though, as we'd have to build out a list of trouble sites and either track and present the limitations of each individual or provide a potentially too-broad or vague warning for a lot of them, and deal with users needing more information about the whole thing in the process as well.
I think certainly we can take another look at what we've got in the FAQ and see if there's not some way to further address some of this stuff in helpful way.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on March 10, 2010
I don't know that much about Hulu myself, but Wikipedia says this:
Cortex, I'm surprised you don't see content restriction as a serious issue. The erosion of net neutrality can't be reduced to "the frustration [...] of not being able to watch a video clip". Sure, it isn't killing or seriously marginalising people right now, but it is a core principal of the free internet. Believe it or not, MetaFilter giving tacit approval to sites like Hulu is going to make a significant difference in how this evolves over the next few years.
posted by Chuckles at 8:27 PM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hulu videos are currently offered only to users in the United States.Like you, jessamyn, I haven't been reading the front page very thoroughly lately--especially not in the last few weeks. In the past, I've noticed the problem more with links to SNL or Comedy Central content (I guess SNL gets on Hulu, but MeFi posters seem to link directly to NBC more often).
Cortex, I'm surprised you don't see content restriction as a serious issue. The erosion of net neutrality can't be reduced to "the frustration [...] of not being able to watch a video clip". Sure, it isn't killing or seriously marginalising people right now, but it is a core principal of the free internet. Believe it or not, MetaFilter giving tacit approval to sites like Hulu is going to make a significant difference in how this evolves over the next few years.
posted by Chuckles at 8:27 PM on March 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, again, I see it as a genuine issue as far as it goes but not necessarily a very serious one for Metafilter specifically given that such content represents only a fraction of what actually gets linked here, and given that our general policy stance is that it'd be a good in general for folks to be sensitive about those restrictions and try to mitigate the frustrations they cause where it's reasonable to do so by e.g. providing alternate links or not building a post solely around that content.
It is not the case that I don't care about net neutrality or don't believe that regional restrictions is problematic. I've been pretty clear that I do, in fact, more or less agree with you about the general issue.
However, I don't believe we need to nor even should adopt what would be an uncharacteristically hardline stance for Metafilter against these sort of links as some sort of proxy battle against media companies et al. The policy on this site is intended to serve the local health of this community, not to wage war against large external entities. The site is not an advocacy platform; expecting it to be used as such is not reasonable, for this issue or for any number of others that folks could bring up (and, inevitably, variously disagree on to one extent or another).
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:14 PM on March 10, 2010
It is not the case that I don't care about net neutrality or don't believe that regional restrictions is problematic. I've been pretty clear that I do, in fact, more or less agree with you about the general issue.
However, I don't believe we need to nor even should adopt what would be an uncharacteristically hardline stance for Metafilter against these sort of links as some sort of proxy battle against media companies et al. The policy on this site is intended to serve the local health of this community, not to wage war against large external entities. The site is not an advocacy platform; expecting it to be used as such is not reasonable, for this issue or for any number of others that folks could bring up (and, inevitably, variously disagree on to one extent or another).
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:14 PM on March 10, 2010
I can't find the thread where mathowie posted the stats, but I believe that something like 80% of metafilter's page views are in the US. This problem impacts a minority of people that view the site.
He mentioned it in the 10th anniversary podcast when he was talking about why he wanted global meetups instead of a big one in the states.
If Hulu is really US-only [and my apologies for not really digging into this more beforehand, I assumed it was more like YouTube, somewhat mercurial and random who can see what] then yeah a single Hulu link post is problematic in the way you describe
Yeah, Hulu is restricted entirely to one country. Youtube is easier to deal with as the clips are only geo-restricted when they're posted directly by the TV companies instead of users and the noteworthy stuff tends to become mirrored quickly across the site so I can find it without any complicated workarounds. (Sometimes it's as simple as clicking on one of the 'related videos'.)
posted by the latin mouse at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
He mentioned it in the 10th anniversary podcast when he was talking about why he wanted global meetups instead of a big one in the states.
Matt: "Well, we were going to pick something in the middle of the country, but that obviously ignores all of Europe and everywhere else in the world which is, y'know, like 25% of the population on Metafilter, right? If not more."
Jessamyn: "Is that really true? Twenty five per cent?"
Matt: "On just, sort of traffic alone to the server, yeah it's probably about --"
Jessamyn: "Sweet!"
Matt: "Really? That doesn't seem high enough. I wish it was more international."
If Hulu is really US-only [and my apologies for not really digging into this more beforehand, I assumed it was more like YouTube, somewhat mercurial and random who can see what] then yeah a single Hulu link post is problematic in the way you describe
Yeah, Hulu is restricted entirely to one country. Youtube is easier to deal with as the clips are only geo-restricted when they're posted directly by the TV companies instead of users and the noteworthy stuff tends to become mirrored quickly across the site so I can find it without any complicated workarounds. (Sometimes it's as simple as clicking on one of the 'related videos'.)
posted by the latin mouse at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
What I wonder is...
Why does the "brand" of Jon Stewarts' daily show, and the "Colbert nation" not seek to ensure their "product" is making certain core parts of their audience happy (and not riling up Canadians who are well known to get mad very quickly when you mess with their TeeVees (see, provoking a grizzly bear)... and have an invasion plan already inked up for invading the USA.
All episodes of these two shows, and in full length, are available in Canada (and the US), so why do the people behind these successful media creators not force [as part of their distribution contract deal with Canadian "TheComedyNetwork"] to have links back to and between the segments on their American home at ComedyCentral.
(in all seriousness; would it be impossible for them to make it easy to link to particular segments from BOTH Canadian and American versions of things like colbert and daily interchangeably?
Lots of these things are available legally cross-nationally... it's just not put together with the idea that two of the same thing should appear together. There is no management of media content access to tie elements together.. TIE CANADIAN REPRODUCTION of the content to the same material in the US... so when someone makes your PRODUCT go "viral"... it will do so easily between nations and across borders.
It seems like the American versions are better "segmented"... like, it is a lot easier to share a link to a short "mini"segment than on the Canadian distribution site. But yeah, hulu is like a black hole -- causing accretion of annoyance to Canadians... it's like if someone told American people that they could have anything in the world... but they had to be Canadian to get it.
posted by infinite intimation at 10:23 PM on March 11, 2010
Why does the "brand" of Jon Stewarts' daily show, and the "Colbert nation" not seek to ensure their "product" is making certain core parts of their audience happy (and not riling up Canadians who are well known to get mad very quickly when you mess with their TeeVees (see, provoking a grizzly bear)... and have an invasion plan already inked up for invading the USA.
All episodes of these two shows, and in full length, are available in Canada (and the US), so why do the people behind these successful media creators not force [as part of their distribution contract deal with Canadian "TheComedyNetwork"] to have links back to and between the segments on their American home at ComedyCentral.
(in all seriousness; would it be impossible for them to make it easy to link to particular segments from BOTH Canadian and American versions of things like colbert and daily interchangeably?
Lots of these things are available legally cross-nationally... it's just not put together with the idea that two of the same thing should appear together. There is no management of media content access to tie elements together.. TIE CANADIAN REPRODUCTION of the content to the same material in the US... so when someone makes your PRODUCT go "viral"... it will do so easily between nations and across borders.
It seems like the American versions are better "segmented"... like, it is a lot easier to share a link to a short "mini"segment than on the Canadian distribution site. But yeah, hulu is like a black hole -- causing accretion of annoyance to Canadians... it's like if someone told American people that they could have anything in the world... but they had to be Canadian to get it.
posted by infinite intimation at 10:23 PM on March 11, 2010
Maybe FishBike can run the stats, but do you see these posts happening an awful lot more?
There only seemed to be about 8 posts tagged with "hulu", so that's probably not a good way to find these. I'm pursuing another remote possibility at the moment, and will pop back into this thread if anything comes of that.
posted by FishBike at 10:20 AM on March 12, 2010
There only seemed to be about 8 posts tagged with "hulu", so that's probably not a good way to find these. I'm pursuing another remote possibility at the moment, and will pop back into this thread if anything comes of that.
posted by FishBike at 10:20 AM on March 12, 2010
There only seemed to be about 8 posts tagged with "hulu", so that's probably not a good way to find these.
Isn't it better to search for hulu.com? That's how I identified the 41 posts.
In the meantime listen to some radio (US only).
posted by tellurian at 10:28 AM on March 16, 2010
Isn't it better to search for hulu.com? That's how I identified the 41 posts.
In the meantime listen to some radio (US only).
posted by tellurian at 10:28 AM on March 16, 2010
tellurian, yeah, I was just looking for a way to pull timestamps out of the infodump to see what the rate of such posts looks like, and whether or not it's increasing recently. Since the content of posts is not in there, the tags would be the next best way. A search and some manual tabulation of timestamps is probably better yet. But you know what they say: when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb.
posted by FishBike at 11:36 AM on March 16, 2010
posted by FishBike at 11:36 AM on March 16, 2010
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posted by craniac at 9:10 PM on March 8, 2010