Cabal much?

September 3, 2012 11:08 AM

Why was this post deleted? The given deletion reason ("Wacky conspiracy stuff isn't really a good post for Metafilter. -- taz") doesn't really apply to the linked video, which is quite obviously comedy lampooning wacky conspiracy stuff.

Not that the comedy was particularly side-splitting or anything, but it didn't seem particularly deletion-worthy to me, either. The thread seemed to be going fine. What gives?

posted by Sys Rq to Etiquette/Policy at 11:08 AM (126 comments total)

Maybe this is just alternate readings or something, but "wacky 'conspiracy stuff'" is how I took it.

In any case, the distinction between actually being a person stringing together non-sequiturs to make a case because you're delusional and aggressively pretending to be a delusional to mock that stuff isn't super substantial in terms of whether or not it makes for a good Metafilter post. If there was something specifically interesting about this beyond the basic "get it, crazy conspiracy people are like this" it's not really clear what.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:11 AM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Oh my god, you deleted that? That was so awesome, I guess I'm not surprised because you cats delete a lot of awesome things, sometimes "not good for metafilter" equals "good for fun." Thanks for linking the deleted material here, Sys Rq, I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

All told, no great harm done by the post-deleters because through the miracle of Metatalk I got to see this awesome video. Since "not a good post for Metafilter" is "perfectly fine post for Metatalk" it won't reach quite as many eyes, but I don't much care since I've seen it now and can send this super-cool, hilarious video to all my friends.

I don't get this excited about things that are deemed good for Metafilter. No big deal.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 11:34 AM on September 3, 2012 [12 favorites]

That's lame. Please delete stupid cute pet videos instead.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:43 AM on September 3, 2012 [27 favorites]

I hereby call for a restructuring of the Cabal to require no less than three mods' approval in order to delete something from the front page, and the immediate establishment of a citizen oversight committee to formally review all deletions and exercise veto power and you realize I'm not really serious by now right? Right.
posted by davejay at 11:55 AM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

also, this theory is nonsense, because if it were true it would be Saturn that used the winged disk as their logo, not Chrysler. and I wish I could favorite deleted posts now.
posted by davejay at 11:58 AM on September 3, 2012

I would like to learn more of this sex magic.
posted by birdherder at 10:33 AM on September 3 [+] [!]

Red Hot Chili Peppers.
posted by Splunge at 12:06 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

Definitely serious conspiracy stuff vs. parody. I lost it when we got to balls.
posted by arcticseal at 12:13 PM on September 3, 2012

Eh, I watched a minute or so of the video and didn't care whether it was parody or not—it was too boring. Different strokes, I guess.
posted by languagehat at 12:14 PM on September 3, 2012 [4 favorites]

Bad deletion, especially if you're going to give all the other SLYT fluff a pass.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:18 PM on September 3, 2012 [9 favorites]

whatever either way.

ie: not smooth enough to cut it as parody, not batshitinsane enough to cut it as ... batshitinsane.

Somehow, I think this illustrious interweb community will survive without it.
posted by philip-random at 12:25 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Eh, I watched a minute or so of the video and didn't care whether it was parody or not—it was too boring. Different strokes, I guess.

Did you get to the part where a basketball court represents sex? Cause that's the part I started smiling at, and then it just got more and more absurd and drew out the EL oh ELs.
posted by cashman at 12:30 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

I lost it when we got to balls.

TMI
posted by drlith at 12:32 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

If mediocre "conspiracy theory" parodies are not right for MetaFilter, why hasn't Joe Bisden been deleted? Or are you still polling the Cabal?
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:33 PM on September 3, 2012

Also, the video was disappointing because it didn't even mention Jordan playing for the Wizards, and that's satanic as all fuck on so many levels.
posted by drlith at 12:34 PM on September 3, 2012 [6 favorites]

Play it off however you need to now, doggie, but you know in your heart that when you only saw one set of footprints that's when cute pet videos were carrying YOU.
posted by mintcake! at 12:35 PM on September 3, 2012 [10 favorites]

Dibs on Ninip of Saturn for a sockpuppet.
posted by Cranberry at 12:40 PM on September 3, 2012

Or are you still polling the Cabal?

The cabal eats lunch around lunch time sometimes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:42 PM on September 3, 2012 [4 favorites]

The 2001 deletion is just bad. Booo!!!
posted by Pendragon at 12:44 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

It's a conspiracy. You should make a website about it.
posted by crunchland at 12:45 PM on September 3, 2012

No it isn't, the thread was already becoming Oh Man, Crazy People Are Good For Laughing At, Right Guys.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:45 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

KEEP METAFILTER WEIRD.
posted by loquacious at 12:46 PM on September 3, 2012 [24 favorites]

I hereby call for a restructuring of the Cabal to require no less than three mods' approval in order to delete something from the front page, and the immediate establishment of a citizen oversight committee to formally review all deletions and exercise veto power and you realize I'm not really serious by now right? Right.
posted by davejay at 11:55 AM on September 3 [+] [!]


I totally agree with you.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:11 PM on September 3, 2012

did you know that "dom" is an anagram of "mod"

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE, PEOPLE!!!
posted by pyramid termite at 1:28 PM on September 3, 2012

did you know that "dom" is an anagram of "mod"

OMD!
posted by vidur at 1:37 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

I thought the logic of the truthiracy fell apart when they used the Disney logo to illustrate the frightening ubiquity of falling star imagery and left a bit of the Pixar screen with the anglepoise lamp in the video. And then I started thinking ANG-EL poise and Lucifer is the fallen angel and the bringer of light and and and (and then I saw the Fnords).
posted by chavenet at 1:47 PM on September 3, 2012

vidur: "OMD!"

It's 8:15, and that's the time that it's always been.
posted by zarq at 1:50 PM on September 3, 2012 [4 favorites]

I'm at a baseball game and I just saw the Cabal in line for garlic fries. True story.
posted by rtha at 2:06 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

That's lame. Please delete stupid cute pet videos instead.

Fields of honor at dawn, sirrah.
posted by griphus at 2:29 PM on September 3, 2012 [3 favorites]

The self-justifying "isn't a good post for MetaFilter" deletion reasons are worse than no deletion reason given at all.
posted by hermitosis at 2:48 PM on September 3, 2012 [25 favorites]

Did you know that a custom Orlando Magic jersey number 93 with the name Crowley on the back can be gotten for 400$ retail?

(I would not admit that I know this if you all knew me in real life. I didn't buy it, but I might if it was a lot less money which is how I know how much it costs.)
posted by bukvich at 2:49 PM on September 3, 2012 [3 favorites]

Sometimes I think that Metafilter should ditch the current site structure and just style itself after ca.1998 cruel.com, complete with a Cruel Site of the Day. I'd be sure to put a link to it at the bottom of my Angelfire homepage, right next to the PKD quotes and the hitcounter.

Also, Mefi needs a hitcounter.
posted by item at 2:53 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'm still miff'd he deleted my brilliant and insightful comment regarding the marathon runner post yesterday where the subject took short-cuts or otherwise didn't run the entire marathon course. All I wrote was:

tl;dr
posted by hal9k at 2:54 PM on September 3, 2012 [22 favorites]

Oh now that's just depressing.
posted by item at 2:55 PM on September 3, 2012

This is not a good comment for MetaTalk.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:56 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

"Pay for a membership at..."

That's the kiss of death.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:06 PM on September 3, 2012

Ceci n'est pas une commentaire metatalk.
posted by jenkinsEar at 3:12 PM on September 3, 2012

Don't you realize that METAFILTER = TEAM TRIFLE?

And EAT ME, RIFT L?

IT IS ALL SO CLEAR!

SOMETHING, SOMETHING SHEEPLE!
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:53 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

i have this weird conspiracy theory that the mods have a holiday stick up the ass.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:54 PM on September 3, 2012

If you'll log that in the case file, that would be great.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:10 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon: i have this weird conspiracy theory that the mods have a holiday stick up the ass.

Why is this night different from all other nights?
posted by gman at 4:10 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

I hereby call for every deleted post to link to Bentley the fussy puppy.
posted by homunculus at 4:23 PM on September 3, 2012

i have this weird conspiracy theory that the mods have a holiday stick up the ass.

That's, I dunno, a little over-the-top hostile, don't you think? What positive result do you imagine following that comment? Can we have a discussion about it? Will it make the functioning of the site smoother? Will it make anyone feel better? Could it be used to better define what might or might not get deleted in the future? Is it funny enough to relieve a little tension? What's the goal?
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:29 PM on September 3, 2012 [5 favorites]

Why is this night different from all other nights?

Dude, Pesach was like six months ago.
posted by griphus at 4:41 PM on September 3, 2012 [4 favorites]

bummer, that video is great and really made me look at the world differently
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:43 PM on September 3, 2012

Homunculus, I think that thing is the AntiChrist.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:16 PM on September 3, 2012

a holiday stick up the ass.

That stick is a candy cane and it's going in your stocking.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:44 PM on September 3, 2012 [9 favorites]

taz
Tazmanian
Tazmanian Devil
Devil
Satan

IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE!! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!
posted by double block and bleed at 6:11 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

So the illuminati/Freemason stuff is a legit part of hip-hop now. For whatever reason rap artists have been appropriating Masonic imagery. A few months ago a rap video was posted featuring a guy wearing a hat with the word Craft on it. I stopped commenting on Masonic imagery in rap a while back, in one thread where I did people asserted that Jay-z was too stupid to co-opt Masonic imagery. It is kind of sad. Rap really is a topic Metafilter doesn't do well because of the deep casual racism displayed here.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:20 PM on September 3, 2012 [6 favorites]

taz
Tazmanian
TazmanianDevil
Devil
Satan
SHEEPLE

I don't get it.
posted by homunculus at 6:24 PM on September 3, 2012

taz deleted the post that is the a subject of this thread. I was trying to make a joke conflating conspiracy theories with taz's deletion.

Those are some weird images.
posted by double block and bleed at 6:31 PM on September 3, 2012

I don't see the word "flag" appearing in this thread — I would venture a guess that the post was probably flagged a lot more than any normal "good for metafilter" post, which would then catch the mods' attention and be the foundation resulting in a justifiable deletion. (I would further guess that "crazy people are crazy amirite" FPP's are well-known and recognized by now for being fertile ground for threads full of grar and insult.)
posted by not_on_display at 6:40 PM on September 3, 2012

Cabal? Cab EL. CAB OF EL.

Do I have to spell everything out to you people?
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:46 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

Also, I was all ready to be GRARy and pitchforky because it's that kinda day and I'm avoiding writing a paper which is already 2 weeks overdue, but seriously...that post sucked.
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:47 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

You know, there's probably a really great post to be written about hip-hop urban legends and conspiracy theories ('The Secret Meeting That Changed Rap Music,' Mason/Illuminati stuff, Guru, Tupac, Biggie, Lauryn Hill, crack, ghostwriters, five-percenters, gay-rapper stuff, Tommy Hilfiger, Troop, etc. etc.).
posted by box at 6:49 PM on September 3, 2012 [5 favorites]

double block and bleed: taz deleted the post that is the a subject of this thread.

The Deletrix strikes again.
posted by gman at 6:50 PM on September 3, 2012

Hmm, the newer mods do seem to have a lower threshold for deleting threads it seems. Or maybe we just notice it more? I think it would be better in general to have a default more to the not-delete side of things than delete, but that's my own personal feeling on the matter.
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:53 PM on September 3, 2012

Yeah, I'm actually curious if any formal training takes place for new mods on this site. Or if it's just a "Hey, you've been here a while and seem pretty objective, want a job?"
posted by gman at 7:03 PM on September 3, 2012

If memory serves, both taz and restless_nomad have, like, years and years of experience as website moderators.
posted by box at 7:09 PM on September 3, 2012

There is a lot of rap mysticism I would love to know the roots of.

What is the basis of the lost tribe of Shabazz? It was in the Autobiography of Malcolm X and he got it from Elijah Muhommad, did Elija Muhommad invent it?

The concepts behind the Nation of Gods and Earths(five Percenters) like the supreme alphabet? Is this part of any tradition or just made up by Clarance 13X.

I wish someone would do some journalism about this stuff at least. As of now, it exists primarily in rap music.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:09 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

I suspect it's confirmation bias, rather than any significant increase in deletions by the newer mods. I haven't noticed this trend.
posted by arcticseal at 7:10 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

If memory serves, both taz and restless_nomad have, like, years and years of experience as website moderators.

restless_nomad definitely does. taz was an admin at MetaChat for a long time, but stepped down before taking the job here. For reference: Taz' MeTa announcement. r_n's.
posted by zarq at 7:14 PM on September 3, 2012

I'm actually curious if any formal training takes place --- it's called 'trial by fire.' And how long have taz and restless_nomad been mods? It's been awhile. At what point do we start trusting them to know what they're doing?
posted by crunchland at 7:14 PM on September 3, 2012 [6 favorites]

It's probably confirmation bias based particularly on MetaTalk complaints, maybe that's why I notice it more? People tend to complain about deletions made by new(er) mods maybe? *shrugs* Either way, I think this deletion was a good one.
posted by 1000monkeys at 7:16 PM on September 3, 2012

On non-preview, it's going on a year and a half for restless_nomad, and almost a year for taz. I think we can officially quit calling them "new moderators," and start accepting the fact that they know what they're doing, and enough with the crybabying over deleted posts.
posted by crunchland at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2012 [16 favorites]

double
double block
double block and bleed

Aha.
posted by homunculus at 7:18 PM on September 3, 2012 [3 favorites]

People tend to complain about deletions made by new(er) mods maybe?

Bingo. Also some of the folks who have complained about deletions previously indicated unhappiness with the site's moderation.
posted by zarq at 7:23 PM on September 3, 2012

Not Sys Rq, though!
posted by zarq at 7:23 PM on September 3, 2012

On non-preview, it's going on a year and a half for restless_nomad, and almost a year for taz. I think we can officially quit calling them "new moderators," and start accepting the fact that they know what they're doing, and enough with the crybabying over deleted posts.
posted by crunchland

Yeah, just for the record, I used the term "new(er)" and I'm not complaining about moderation choices, nor have I ever (to my recollection). I was just trying to understand if there was any correlation to complaints of overmoderation vs. actual moderation, etc. etc. blah blah blah I REALLY DON'T WANT TO WRITE THIS PAPER.
posted by 1000monkeys at 7:26 PM on September 3, 2012

I'm actually curious if any formal training takes place for new mods on this site.

I think taz actually had to defeat vacapinta in a duel to become a mod. Broadswords in a pit, if I heard correctly. I don't know about restless_nomad, though.
posted by homunculus at 7:31 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Yeah whatever, the linked video was kind of weak, not even as totally off the wall as actual theories.

In case anyone doesn't know what five Percenters actually believe. They believe that the population is broken up into the 85% that are sheep, the 10% that teach god is an actual deity that exists and the 5% that teach god is not an actual diety but "the original man", the "asiatic blackman". They have a system called The Universal Language that allows them to read the deeper meaning of texts to proves their theories. No doubt you have heard had songs mentioning "the original man"

There is of course the Black Hebrew Isrealites, that use what seems like extensive knowledge of Christian art and writings to show that Christ was gay, and therefore all white followers of Christ are gay. As you can image, they don't like gays.

The things that actually float around, and seem to be believed by legions of people are really more interesting than the fact some dude thinks people who think MJ is an illuminatus are stupid.

I hope someone who knows more about this stuff can put together a post.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:35 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

One more vote for Taz and Cortex needing a humor infusion. I thought the video was hilarious and very much mefiworthy.
posted by alms at 7:37 PM on September 3, 2012

I think taz actually had to defeat vacapinta in a duel to become a mod. Broadswords in a pit, if I heard correctly. I don't know about restless_nomad, though.

restless_nomad merely had to stay awake 48 hours straight alternating between watching Marx Brothers films and re-mixing the podcasts to make the other mods sound as if they're singing Lady Gaga (four songs).
posted by Atreides at 7:42 PM on September 3, 2012

I hope someone who knows more about this stuff can put together a post.

I'm on it.
posted by billyfleetwood at 8:18 PM on September 3, 2012 [5 favorites]

I thought the video was hilarious and very much mefiworthy.

I'm usually the one needing a humor infusion and we all sort of looked at it and felt it was not funny enough to get over the "seems to maybe be making fun of crazy people" hurdle which we've all been a bit more sensitized to lately. It's clearly the sort of thing about which reasonable people disagree.

I'm actually curious if any formal training takes place

Nope. What would that even look like? They both have job experience at other places and there was a lot of informal training which involved a lot of "this is how we do stuff here" explanations and reading and then a lot of talking before during and after shifts, some spot-checking the work they were doing, and some mailing list discussion about problematic stuff if they were unsure of what to do. All of us, newer mods and older mods, will often check in with someone else if we have questions about a thing, taz has a chunk of hours in the middle of the night when she can't do that so it can be tricky for her sometimes.

It's trial-by-fire in some ways but generally speaking everything the newer mods do is visible to everyone else (well this is true for all mods, not just them) except for back and forth MeMail they do with people (which is one of the reason we try to not use MeMail for admin stuff, not so we can all spy on each other but so we can offer feedback and share the workload) so we're all pretty clear how everyone is doing. While we do try to be supportive of each other generally, that doesn't really hit the Thin Blue Line level and we've discussed in MeTa times where we've disagreed with each other's decisions.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:26 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

I'm on it

I don't know if MetaFilter is ready for Lakim Shabazz dropping science on the front page. Everybody here loves DOOM and Rza, so if they don't know about NGE they really should.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:58 PM on September 3, 2012

After seeing a bunch if people defend it, I thought if take a look...

Perfectly good deletion taz.
posted by HMSSM at 8:59 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Cortex needing a humor infusion

Is this like a hot beef injection?
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

I now have a disturbing mental image.
posted by h00py at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2012 [2 favorites]

Burhanistan: "That's lame. Please delete stupid cute pet videos instead."

NOT ON MY WATCH NO SIR NO WAY NOT GONNA HAPPEN NO
posted by deborah at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2012

Red Hot Chili Peppers.

God damn you, Splunge. Making me want to listen to that album again.

Thankfully we have Spotify because I left most of my CDs back in Australia.

Bad deletion, especially if you're going to give all the other SLYT fluff a pass.

I'd rather we cracked down on shit SLYT crap.
posted by Talez at 9:50 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Nope. What would that even look like?

"each of you has, in your hands, a deadly weapon."
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 PM on September 3, 2012 [4 favorites]

What is it about "holidays" that bring on the mods--GRAR--deletion--GRAR? I say "holidays" since I work retail and no lazy ass laying around the house griping about humorless mods for working stiffs like me! Some a you are bizarre in the brain; Cortex is hilarious and Taz is a sweetheart. Go grill an ox or sumpin. :)
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:43 PM on September 3, 2012

>Cortex needing a humor infusion

>Is this like a hot beef injection?

Only to the extent that they both involve BUTTS LOL
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:46 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Great, now I'm shaking off imagery of cortex getting topped by a clown. Made of meat.
posted by loquacious at 10:54 PM on September 3, 2012

So,marginally more important, AntiSec released 1million Apple Device IDs out of aN FBI database of 12 million. So if you have an iPhone it is likely the FBI and Haxorz have yur dox. They have your device ID, name, address, cell phone number etc. So you know, if you pissed someone off on 4chan and they know your name, they are probably ordering pizza to your house right now.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:57 PM on September 3, 2012 [1 favorite]

Oh, all the address info isn't in the dump. But that's only because they were nice enough to strip it out this time.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:59 PM on September 3, 2012

♩ ♪ ♫ I AM YOUR SINGING TELEGRAM--
posted by The Whelk at 11:01 PM on September 3, 2012 [3 favorites]

Great, laughing meat.
posted by loquacious at 11:52 PM on September 3, 2012

So you know, if you pissed someone off on 4chan and they know your name, they are probably ordering pizza to your house right now.

BRB, pissing off 4chan for food.
posted by loquacious at 11:53 PM on September 3, 2012 [7 favorites]

posted by cortex (staff) at 11:11 AM

EL EVEN TWO BAALS EL EVEN AIR SIGN BULL HORNS
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:45 AM on September 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

1000monkeys: I was just trying to understand if there was any correlation to complaints of overmoderation vs. actual moderation

I think what gives people the perception of overmoderation is that back in the days of the tetrarchy, before taz and restless_nomad were elevated to the purple, there were significant chunks of time when MetaFilter had no mod paying attention, which meant that all kinds of things would slip through to the front page. That rarely, if ever, happens anymore. Things are a lot smoother now, though I'll admit to missing the occasional bout of fun-crazy that used to happen.
posted by Kattullus at 2:57 AM on September 4, 2012 [5 favorites]

jessamyn: "I thought the video was hilarious and very much mefiworthy.

I'm usually the one needing a humor infusion and we all sort of looked at it and felt it was not funny enough to get over the "seems to maybe be making fun of crazy people" hurdle which we've all been a bit more sensitized to lately. It's clearly the sort of thing about which reasonable people disagree."

I think it would have been good to include this in the deletion reason, something along the lines of "While it may be funny to make fun of conspiracies, this also seems to be poking fun at people with mental illnesses." or something like that.

I mean, there are some things that obviously aren't appropriate for MetaFilter. So a deletion reason like, "Sorry, links to hardcore porn aren't a good match for MetaFilter." or "A single page filled with the word 'the' is not the best of the web." makes total sense.

But I don't think "x is not really a good post for MetaFilter" works across the board. In some cases, I think you need to specify why it's not a good post for MetaFilter. It doesn't have to be an essay.

I've pretty much consistently railed against "Why was this deleted?" MeTas and against people who insist on a clear set of rules for what is and isn't an acceptable post. In this case, I don't think it's as readily apparent that this post is not appropriate. So elaboration would have helped.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:37 AM on September 4, 2012 [9 favorites]

Or are you still polling the Cabal?

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
posted by krinklyfig at 4:06 AM on September 4, 2012

I actually don't have a problem with any of the mods. I just don't agree with all of their decisions. However, if I were in their shoes I would have gone insane a long time ago, wildly swinging the ban-hammer in a drunken frenzy of megalomania.

Guilty and innocent alike would fall by the hundreds and thousands that day. Then I would hold the ban-hammer high to the thundering skies, shrieking like a banshee:

LET MATT SORT THEM OUT!
posted by double block and bleed at 6:04 AM on September 4, 2012 [3 favorites]

back in the days of the tetrarchy

Now I'm awaiting the inevitable internecine conflict and metafilter's subsequent division into two spheres of influence.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:25 AM on September 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

The Whelk:
"each of you has, in your hands, a deadly weapon.""

Tonight I shall be carrying on from where we got to last week when I was showing you how to defend yourselves against anyone who attacks you with armed with a piece of fresh fruit.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:39 AM on September 4, 2012

Now I'm awaiting the inevitable internecine conflict and metafilter's subsequent division into two spheres of influence.

and then there will have to be a Diet and an Edict. Oh the intoxication of naming said Diet and Edict!
posted by From Bklyn at 6:41 AM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

Remember that you're posting in a forum with overworked professional moderators who, over the years, have come to the unutterable but unshakeable conviction that you are probably no older than eight, and very likely as young as six.

If what you're posting smacks of quackery you obviously believe in it, and you need firm correction. The minds of other users must likewise be protected from what they are not sophisticated enough to contextualize.
posted by clarknova at 6:49 AM on September 4, 2012

have come to the unutterable but unshakeable conviction that you are probably no older than eight, and very likely as young as six.

I'll utter it: this is only true of a very short list of users and only because they sometimes act that way. If this is about the very recent deletion of your AskMe comment, you are more than welcome to take it up over email or open your own MeTa thread about it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:53 AM on September 4, 2012

I'd rather pretend I have no idea what you're talking about.
posted by clarknova at 7:04 AM on September 4, 2012

Then I will as well!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:04 AM on September 4, 2012

I looked up the word tetrarchy.
posted by clavdivs at 7:06 AM on September 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

Success!
posted by Wolof at 7:06 AM on September 4, 2012

they were not home
posted by clavdivs at 7:06 AM on September 4, 2012 [3 favorites]

> But I don't think "x is not really a good post for MetaFilter" works across the board. In some cases, I think you need to specify why it's not a good post for MetaFilter.

They don't need to specify anything. They need to delete crappy posts, and they do it very well. The deletion reason is there as a kindness to the poster, who can contact the mods for further clarification if they want. It is really no concern of yours or anyone else's, since once the post has been deleted it is no longer part of the public record. (That said, I do greatly appreciate cortex's efforts to keep them amusing for those of us who enjoy that sort of thing.)
posted by languagehat at 8:07 AM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

They don't need to specify anything. They need to delete crappy posts, and they do it very well.

Being specific would prevent future crappiness. Even if that applies just to the one user, that's still a net benefit.

(Unless the mods are paid per deletion or something.)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:19 AM on September 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

As I said, the poster can contact the mods for further clarification if they want.
posted by languagehat at 8:22 AM on September 4, 2012

Unless the mods are paid per deletion or something.

We're often balancing getting something deleted swiftly and being crystal clear why we deleted it. As languagehat says, the reasons for deletion are primarily a courtesy for the OP. They are not supposed to be taken, in total, as the set of reasons why posts may be deleted. If people are confused, we are available here and over email 24/7.

Not disagreeing that this deletion reason could possibly have been clearer, but I think it's always easier to morning-after quarterback this sort of thing. More data for next time is always helpful. At the same time, there is a small group of people for whom avoiding getting their posts deleted is more important to them than it is to us. And also people who feel that deletions can be avoided entirely if everyone would just learn all the unwritten rules of this place, and thus use all of our mod "tells" to help ascertain what those rules are.

We're really happier if people don't view a deletion as some sort of negative commentary on themselves or their posting style and just see them as occasional things that happen sometimes. As mods we don't ascribe any negative value to any individual deletion although if people don't seem to be getting the hang of something over time we're happy talking to them specifically. Having users occasionally deal with posts that don't get deleted swiftly enough or accurately enough is a decent trade-off, we feel, from having a site that either has automated deletions or a bunch of up and down votes determining what stays and goes. It's not perfect, certainly, but it works most of the time.

I get that people weren't all totally psyched about this deletion and that's totally fine but I don't think that data point requires some sort of revamping of how we generally do things.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:29 AM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

As I said, the poster can contact the mods for further clarification if they want.

Sure, but others who read the post don't learn anything from the reason. Leaving a clear reason for deletion is one way to avoid a lot of people writing the mods and posting in MeTa to seek clarification.

"Not a good post for MetaFilter" doesn't communicate anything. It's not instructive. Even some of the jokier deletion reasons at least indicate some goodwill and humor on the part of the mods. I find it frustratingly diffuse, because of how often what is or isn't good for MetaFilter turns out to be incredibly subjective.
posted by hermitosis at 8:34 AM on September 4, 2012 [3 favorites]

Should have previewed, because I don't really want to drag anything out further with the mods and I respect jessamyn's answer.
posted by hermitosis at 8:36 AM on September 4, 2012

Being specific would prevent future crappiness.

You'd be surprised. Sometimes specificity works really great, if there's a very specific, very inarguable problem with a post like something is broken or it's a double or it's an angry rant with a link attached or whatever. Sometimes the problem is more generally with the kind of thing the post is linking to or how, or even just the post being sort of bleh.

Used to be I tried to be a bit more explicit in stating the problems with those more "this just isn't great" posts, but I do that a smaller percentage of the time now because my experience has been that getting into more specific analyses of the post in a deletion reason or details of my read on it tends to lead not so much to "oh, I fully understand your position now" as it does to rules-lawyering about how subclause b of my explanation is invalid ergo the post is fine and must be restored, etc. More grief, not less.

So trying to get the general idea in there is more my current approach. Specificity when it feels useful, not as much when it doesn't, and as always people can write to us if they want some elaboration that isn't constrained by being a one-way statement in a small box in public for all time.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:39 AM on September 4, 2012 [3 favorites]

Speaking of deletion reasons, were there a lot of deleted comments in this thread or something?
posted by Greg Nog at 9:31 AM on September 4, 2012

No, more of a flags and contact form "what's up with that post?" combined with the mods have the same sort of bruh? reaction. I feel like there's probably a fine rewrite to be made there that is just a little less opaque about (a) what the interesting situation is and (b) where the links go.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:32 AM on September 4, 2012

Yeah, zero deleted comments just a post that seemed to have a point but it was confusing a lot of people (and us) and could have stood a rewrite. You know what had a lot of deleted comments? This thread.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:37 AM on September 4, 2012

jessamyn: "You know what had a lot of deleted comments? This thread."

Why?
posted by zarq at 9:41 AM on September 4, 2012

Everyone answered as if grouse had asked about 2008, over and over.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:42 AM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

Oh, how weird and frustrating. It's in his very first comment.
posted by zarq at 9:43 AM on September 4, 2012

Well and then there was a derail about presidents who went with different vice presidents for their second term which, hey, interesting, but not on topic for the question.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:47 AM on September 4, 2012

That's, I dunno, a little over-the-top hostile, don't you think?

It was barely registered on the q-meter, a mere .03 quostiles.

What positive result do you imagine following that comment?

i imagined the entire mod team showing up on my porch, wailing and gnashing teeth with remorse for the untold thousands of post/comment deletions over the years, and offering comfort. and food. taz and jess are wearing these darling little victoria's secret lace babydolls (cortex too, but his is homemade, comprised of leather and features spiky wrist cuffs). mathowie is dressed as a drum major and leading a 200 member drum and bugle corps which is playing the firebird suite. that's as far as i got.

Can we have a discussion about it?

as you wish.

Will it make the functioning of the site smoother?

the site has been functioning marvelously now that the jrun errors are a thing of the past.

Will it make anyone feel better?

oh yes, i felt much better!

Could it be used to better define what might or might not get deleted in the future? Is it funny enough to relieve a little tension? What's the goal?

you're weird!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:32 AM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

Your special snowflake was melted by a flame thrower. Deal with it.
posted by terrapin at 11:40 AM on September 4, 2012

jessamyn: "Well and then there was a derail about presidents who went with different vice presidents for their second term which, hey, interesting, but not on topic for the question."

Understandable.
posted by zarq at 12:36 PM on September 4, 2012

I hereby call for every deleted post to link to Bentley the fussy puppy .

JUST PET THE DAMN DOG ALREADY
posted by rhizome at 3:02 PM on September 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

This was one of the best train wreck posts I've ever seen here. I need to just hang out on MetaTalk and check out the deleted links people are crying over. Because this was a thousand times more entertaining than badly-made Brazilian soccer fields, inane ten-question personality quizzes, and some sad sad sack that has a fetish for celebrity workout videos.
posted by clarknova at 11:33 PM on September 4, 2012

the poster can contact the mods for further clarification if they want.

This is the best advice or ask a mefi who posts good stuff.

dont know... but i get the feeling some folks will take issue for the sake of it. The mods will answer questions and even offer some guidelines. It helps the poster and helps the site as a whole with better content as an end result. IMO.

The kicker is if the mods are wrong, they will recitify the error. IMO that does not happen often but it can and fixing the problem makes the site better.
posted by clavdivs at 10:06 AM on September 5, 2012

Maybe someone should reserve the URL "notformetafilter" and link to everything that's been deleted.
posted by mecran01 at 11:57 AM on September 5, 2012

mecran01: "Maybe someone should reserve the URL "notformetafilter" and link to everything that's been deleted."

This already exists.

There's also a greasemonkey script that lets you view them inline on the front page with the rest of the site.

The greasemonkey script is worth it just for the deletion reasons, which are not always of the amorphous and tepid "not a good fit for metafilter" type. Sometimes they are quite funny.

Even when they're not funny, sometimes they are quite punny.
posted by double block and bleed at 11:20 AM on September 6, 2012