First post got deleted
April 3, 2013 3:01 PM   Subscribe

My very first post on Metafilter (about N. Korea) was just deleted! Bummer.

I've read Metafilter daily for over a decade and I've been meaning to try my hand at a post. I've found myself hoping daily to find a meaningful post on the subject of N. Korea but coming up empty. I searched for previous (serious) posts on the subject and found none. Perfect! I'll be the guy.

My post was deleted because of this previous post

http://www.metafilter.com/126522/Why-Austin

I'd argue that the previous post that covered the subject was more a "ha, ha, Kim Jog-Un is a loser" post than a serious analysis of an important subject. I haven't seen any good analysis posted on Metafilter about the situation, and the previous post had gone quiet for 3 days until my post was deleted.

Here's my deleted post (with a missing period).
http://www.metafilter.com/126680/It-will-be-911-times-2356

I'm doing it wrong apparently. Enlighten me.

BTW-Cortex explained his decision a bit, but I don't want to pester him further. Seems his decision is final.
posted by karst to Etiquette/Policy at 3:01 PM (71 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

Your post was "a serious analysis of an important subject"? Also, you can make links in MetaTalk as well.

Three days and no "previously" is borderline. Link it in the existing thread.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:05 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't want to pester him further
... and yet, here you are, doing just that. I guess you haven't paid much attention to MeTa during that decade, or you would already know how this is almost certainly going to turn out.
posted by dg at 3:06 PM on April 3, 2013 [5 favorites]


That was a very nice post and I was really glad to see the links collected, though I do also have the previous post in my recent history and would have been just as happy to see them there. However that way it wouldn't have the effect of splitting the discussion or crowding the front page with a blanket of just one topic. Reddit seems pretty obsessed with this and thats fine, but we're not Reddit, and that is also fine.
posted by Blasdelb at 3:07 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


"... and yet, here you are, doing just that. I guess you haven't paid much attention to MeTa during that decade, or you would already know how this is almost certainly going to turn out."

You know this is a prophesy we don't necessarily need to fulfill right? This seems like a question asked of the community in earnest, we don't need to go apeshit about it.
posted by Blasdelb at 3:09 PM on April 3, 2013 [61 favorites]


and the previous post had gone quiet for 3 days until my post was deleted.

Which is basically okay, is the main thing, as far as where I'm coming from. There's now a bit of activity in that thread spurned on in part, ironically enough, from someone linking to the deleted post; putting those links into that thread in the first place as a comment would have accomplished the same thing a little more directly, and that's often the odd reincarnating lifecycle of discussion on mefi when there's a slowly-developing topic.

I think it's a topic worth keeping an eye on, and might be a thing where as time goes by it becomes clear that there's a really, really good reason for a new post sooner rather than later, but as far as the usual flow of posting around here a recent post on the same topic (even with a different tonal approach than you'd prefer) is the place to go with new links.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:09 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I like your post! The only issue I have with it is that all the links are to mainstream news orgs. I think it's a sliding scale; if there hadn't been a recent post on the topic I bet it would have been fine, but with a recent post it probably needed something more than what you'd see on Google News, since those types of links often get posted as comments.

... and yet, here you are, doing just that. I guess you haven't paid much attention to MeTa during that decade, or you would already know how this is almost certainly going to turn out.

This Meta doesn't read as fighty to me. Maybe give karst the benefit of the doubt as someone genuinely looking for community feedback?
posted by no regrets, coyote at 3:10 PM on April 3, 2013 [5 favorites]


You've got two NYT links, two Wikipedia links, plus Time, and the Guardian. I'm not sure that's quite enough to warrant a separate post.
posted by zamboni at 3:10 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


dg: "... and yet, here you are, doing just that. I guess you haven't paid much attention to MeTa during that decade, or you would already know how this is almost certainly going to turn out."

It's only going to turn out a certain way if people act a certain way. Be the MeTa you seek and all that.
posted by Big_B at 3:11 PM on April 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure that's quite enough to warrant a separate post.

Yeah one of the things that may not be obvious on first glance here is that a lot of people view posts through recent activity. So a thread that a lot of people have commented in but that hasn't had a new comment in a day or two can still hop back to life. I get that your post was a little more serious than the existing post but calling a world leader Li'l Kim and talking about the wacky (if scary) things he is up to didn't seem like a totally new direction.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:14 PM on April 3, 2013


Enlighten me.

Threads posted on MetaFilter on a particular subject tend to become the primary interaction nodes for that particular subject for the userbase until either a new development occurs that is substantial enough to warrant a completely new discussion on the topic, or enough time passes that the thread that has been serving as the primary interaction node has closed itself up. This time period is 30 days on the blue, main MetaFilter page. The decision of whether or not a new development warrants a new post is partially a community decision facilitated through the flagging system, but it ultimately falls to the moderation team to make the judgement call on whether or not a new post on a recently-posted topic stays or goes.
posted by laconic skeuomorph at 3:17 PM on April 3, 2013 [5 favorites]


Hey, congrats. I'm pretty sure "Had post deleted" is a square in MetaFilter bingo, and it took me 4-5 posts before I got one.

I'm being silly, sure, but I just don't want you to take it too hard, and I hope that it won't discourage you from sharing other interesting stuff here.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:42 PM on April 3, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yep, deleted posts are sort of a rite of passage, nice that you got through adolescence with one try! Don't let it get you down....
posted by HuronBob at 3:54 PM on April 3, 2013 [6 favorites]


I read the previous post but it seemed the linked material was more geared towards Austin and jokes about BBQ sauce and "don't mess with Texas" than the Koreas, per se.

I don't think the Korean situation will lead to WWIII, but it is a news event of some significance. Certainly if I revisited the nuclear threat to Austin it'd be a double, but this is a big story that can be "covered" from many angles. (Admittedly, calling him Lil' Kim was sorta snarky).

I guess we all come to Metafilter for different reasons. I'm here for the enlightened debate that you don't get in the comments on a NYT article or Reddit. I thought the thread on the Swine/Avian Flu this morning was great, for example. Not the linked material neccessarily, but the discussion it triggered. I find the users here on Metafilter do a much better job dissecting the news than the news does. Part of that is because of good moderation, and good moderation deemed my post unworthy so I accept their decision.

dg-I'm not pestering Cortex, I'm asking the hive. Cortex responded in this Talk post (thanks) but I didn't mean to specifically take up his time. But you''re right, I never come to MetaTalk. I've only recently started going to AskMefi, but that's because I have a lot more spare time recently. I also never use Recent Activity.

"Your post was "a serious analysis of an important subject"?"
No! I was hoping that it would spark a serious analysis.


I guess the error of my ways is that I am more interested in the analysis offered by the hive than I am in showing the hive something cool that I found. Point taken.

Honest question-what's a good source for quality, real time analysis of current events? I know MetaFilter isn't newsfilter, but Reddit and NYT don't cut it for me. (It''s amazing what the $5(?) fee to join does to discourage the crazy fringe from joining the debate.)
posted by karst at 4:00 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


Theres a weighty post somewhere in all of that - but not at that precise moment.Hopefully the situation calms down as I'm rather concerned about Stav and the logistics of organising a mefi airlift.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:01 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I guess the error of my ways is that I am more interested in the analysis offered by the hive than I am in showing the hive something cool that I found.

Many of us are, but the primary desired objective of posts to the blue is and has always been the latter, I would say.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:04 PM on April 3, 2013 [5 favorites]


Reddit and NYT don't cut it

There are some good nichey subreddits that are better. It's really tough to find a place that has current events discussion but that also doesn't get out of hand. I think it's because that's what a lot of people are looking for. Most of the sites that were good at it got big and out of hand (TPM, Kos, HuffPo) or turned into terrible echo chambers. As much as we truly are sympathetic to people wanting to have discussions about current topics with people here, we walk a fine line between this place either becoming an echo chamber or a sort of current events blog which can get really navel-gazey real quickly. There are some long threads on current event topics that turn into long tail situations where they're way off the front page and the people commenting in them are still paying attention and no one else is and I've seen some great discussions (and especially folks like homonculus and ericb posting worthwhile links weeks later) spring up later than you'd think they would.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:10 PM on April 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


I think it's a topic worth keeping an eye on, and might be a thing where as time goes by it becomes clear that there's a really, really good reason for a new post sooner rather than later

Boy howdy do I ever hope that won't have to happen.
posted by item at 4:15 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I've had posts deleted maybe 4 times. I've upped my standards a lot since getting (very nicely) shot down. It was constructive for me and I've rethought my ideas for posts a lot.

I'm hoping to get a good one, one of these days though. Don't give up. Seriously.
posted by Sophie1 at 4:20 PM on April 3, 2013


Boy howdy do I ever hope that won't have to happen.

You and me both, let me tell you. Although I'm flying to Canada tomorrow for one of my once-every-few-years trips to visit my mom, so if the balloon does go up (I honestly don't think it will, but rising brinkmanship means more chance of accident-then-escalation) I'll be more worried about my wife being OK. You know, in addition to everyone else here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:28 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


Good post, keep it up.

Also in the event of thermonuclear conflict the mods owe you a beer.
posted by Artw at 4:35 PM on April 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


Given the circumstances, shouldn't the title of the MetaTalk post be called "First post go nuked"?
posted by KokuRyu at 4:37 PM on April 3, 2013


Hell, I had a post deleted today! (Double.)

But you''re right, I never come to MetaTalk.

Welcome to another edition of Thunderdome!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:37 PM on April 3, 2013


No! I was hoping that it would spark a serious analysis.

Other users here may have different preferences, but I feel that a post that is made for the purpose of discussion will almost always be a weak post. I agree that the quality of discussion is what makes MetaFilter a unique site, but those discussions have to start with links to quality content — the best of the web. This is why news filter posts tend to suck, since a few mainstream news articles aren't going to be the best of the web, no matter how timely.

I am also a big fan of single-link posts and I think padding out a post with links does more to hinder discussion than to help it. Link padding often leads directly to a sidetrack about a tangential subject in one of the non-essential links. If the content in the post is strong, you don't need to pad with other links; if you feel the need to pad your post with other links, perhaps the content isn't strong. In your post, almost all the text was all linked. I don't have links underlined on MetaFilter, so it looked like several sentences were a single unbroken link. This would be poor formatting at best.
posted by stopgap at 4:40 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's been said numerous times in metatalk that posts driven by "people must discuss this!" are not nearly as well received as "hey, this is neato! I'll bet the hive will like this."

Since you don't frequent metatalk, I can understand your not knowing about this general consensus. Many members, myself included, use recent activity to keep track of threads that we've posted in and are still interested. Adding your more serious links to the current thread may very well revive the conversation and might even steer it towards a more serious tone.

The situation in DPRK is getting uglier by the day. The current thread may heat up again with or without your links because there are many people who are interested in it. But a new thread on materially the same subject shortly after the original probably won't stand unless it contains truly groundbreaking information.

Don't feel bad. My first three or four posts were deleted. One of them was about North Korea.
posted by double block and bleed at 4:45 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I also never use Recent Activity.

Oh, and if it's not clear from other people's comments, you should start using Recent Activity to read the site.

I'm a lot like you, where I often find the user comments more interesting than the posted links. If there's a post on a subject you're interested in, make a comment on it and that will put it in Recent Activity. [There's some controversy about doing that, but as of yet it seems okay to just comment "Thanks, interesting" in a thread.]
posted by benito.strauss at 4:52 PM on April 3, 2013


You've been gracious and sincere in this thread, karst, so I offer this entirely in a reciprocal spirit, but a post that links to the Wikipedia entry for the Korean War for the phrase "Despite a long history of animosity between the Koreas" is almost never going to go well. The reason discussion here is good is because everyone already knows about the Korean War. It's a major geopolitical event, and some familiarity with it is a prerequisite for talking about the relationship between North and South Korea now. Linking to the Wikipedia article on it signals either that your other links do not advance what everyone else knows, and/or that they are similarly common knowledge. For current events posts the bar is considerably higher. For history posts, similarly, the bar is much higher, since everyone already knows how to use Wikipedia to look up the Korean War.

Don't get scared off making posts. I make plenty of posts that few people read, but I know in my heart of hearts that that's because people here are troglodytes who are lucky to have me here at all. That knowledge really contributes to my sangfroid when I make a post that gets three off-topic comments and one favorite eight months later.
posted by OmieWise at 5:00 PM on April 3, 2013 [6 favorites]


What is the DR strategy in case of nuclear attack by North Korea? What does the business continuity plan look like? Ideally we should have the equivalent of the presidential "doomsday plane" to support a moderation tiger team for at least several days. Judging by Obama's Doomsday plane we will need perhaps 200MM. Maybe go with a kickstarter instead of an IPO.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:06 PM on April 3, 2013


dg-I'm not pestering Cortex, I'm asking the hive. Cortex responded in this Talk post (thanks) but I didn't mean to specifically take up his time. But you''re right, I never come to MetaTalk. I've only recently started going to AskMefi, but that's because I have a lot more spare time recently. I also never use Recent Activity.
Fair enough, then and thank you for responding to my snark with grace.

If you never come to MetaTalk, you probably aren't aware that a post here, by default, takes up the time of not only cortex, but the other mods as well, or that posts here about deleted posts over there often end in big arguments, resulting in an escalating workload for mods and, far too often, hurt feelings all 'round.

To echo others, I highly recommend the use of Recent Activity as a way to keep track of your stuff here.
posted by dg at 5:12 PM on April 3, 2013


Thanks for the feedback, all. OmieWise, I'm definitely guilty of padding the post. I wasn't sure about that. I know single link is frowned upon. I thought bulking it out would prevent "nuking" of my post. I was definitely wrong. The topic didn't really need background, anyone with an internet connection should know what's up.

I'd still argue that the Korea situation deserves a post, so maybe someone with more street cred than me can pull it off.

Again, thanks.

We're cool.
posted by karst at 5:12 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


I know single link is frowned upon.

This isn't true!

A good post is a good post, and some of the best are single links. The basic thing is that you need a good link. Extra links can make your post better, but they do not turn a mediocre link into a good link.
posted by OmieWise at 5:25 PM on April 3, 2013 [4 favorites]


I know single link is frowned upon.

No, not at all. There is a school of posting that is all about exhaustingly covering every aspect of a topic with a barrage of links, but that is by no means "preferred" over decent single links.
posted by LionIndex at 5:26 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


You say you have been reading for a decade but your profile suggests you don't participate much. You might try doing more of that to help you get more of a feel for how the place works. You could also look at some posts that by some measure (number of favorites, length of discussion, quality of discussion, whatever you think is a meaningful measure) is something you would like to emulate and try to analyze why it worked.

I have big personal challenges in starting online discussions, which would be the equivalent if making a MeFi post (I have other strengths, that is just not one of them). My first MeFi post and one of my early AskMes were deleted. I have had some AskMes that I felt went very well but I am not ready to try to post to MetaFilter.

Historically, on previous forums, it has taken me some time to get a feel for what works. In some forums, I eventually did figure it out. In others, I haven't yet. So I am giving you suggestions based on being someone who doesn't seem to readily click with such things but can sometimes figure it out. More actual participation tends to help me. It is a much meatier level of feedback than just reading.
posted by Michele in California at 5:31 PM on April 3, 2013


It's funny. My wife asked why I never read the links posted. For me it generally doesn't matter what the links are, the meat is in the comments.

Honestly, "North Korea, go" would've sufficed for me (or should I say to get the community started on).

I think one of the main reasons I'm link adverse is I ALWAYS have slow Internet and access the web with my phone. Metafilter loads quickly and is easily read on my iPhone.
posted by karst at 5:50 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


I flagged it as a double and suggested the "previously" addition if the post stayed since the existing North Korea thread was still in my Recent Activity. The existing thread had some good links in the comments already and I think this was a good addition to that without needing to make a new FPP. The Lil' Kim joke didn't help it's serious intent.

You have my sympathy as it took me years to work up the courage to make my first FPP. Try commenting more and MeTa is a good place to read discussions on what passes for acceptable style /process for an FPP. MeTa can get feisty but there's good discussion here too. I hope this hasn't scared you away from trying again!
posted by arcticseal at 6:07 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


Again: it is nearly universally-acknowledged here that making a post to the Blue just because you want to see what MeFites have to say about something is, if not frowned upon, at least not the best way of doing things.

My wife asked why I never read the links posted.

There are times that I don't bother R-ing the F-ing A before commenting or reading a thread, either, I'll admit. I'm sure many people are the same. It is true that (usually) smart and interesting discussion is what makes Metafilter Metafilter. But at the same time, it also true that one thing is baked into the site since the beginning, back beyond the shimmering veil: it's all about the links.

It is important to understand that in a community that numbers in the thousands there are many different ways that people interact and use the site but there is nonetheless an Established (if always evolving) Way of Things, and that our individual preferences, whatever they may be, do not take precedence.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:10 PM on April 3, 2013 [2 favorites]


Holy cow, I'd never seen Recent Activity before. My mind is blown. What else have I been missing!?
posted by Strass at 6:15 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, just rummaging together links to pad out what would otherwise be "Topic XYZ: discuss!" is pretty far from ideal.
posted by ook at 6:16 PM on April 3, 2013


Strass, Try My Mefi. You can tailor it to your favourite subjects.
posted by arcticseal at 6:20 PM on April 3, 2013


Holy cow, I'd never seen Recent Activity before. My mind is blown. What else have I been missing!?

If you click the little '+' sign on someone's comment, you get a free cookie. Try it on my comment right now.
posted by vidur at 6:21 PM on April 3, 2013 [4 favorites]


I clicked it twice and I got two cookies ;)
posted by Strass at 6:26 PM on April 3, 2013 [9 favorites]


Somebody owes me a veritable mountain of cookies. I pledge upon receipt of said cookies to distribute them fairly for the promotion of the commonweal.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:31 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


It would be wonderful if someone told me the equivalent of RES (Reddit Enhancement Suite) existed for MetaFilter
posted by Strass at 6:33 PM on April 3, 2013


Strass:

Shadowy Back Alleys
More Resources
The wiki in general.
posted by Gunner's Mate 1st Class Phillip Asshole at 6:34 PM on April 3, 2013


And specific link to the page of Greasemonkey scripts. Some very functional, others purely fun. However I think my contributions here have gotten cheerier now that I have to click a rainbow unicorn to make them.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:51 PM on April 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


My favorite is the laser bear of thread baleetion.
posted by maryr at 6:59 PM on April 3, 2013


... it wouldn't have the effect of splitting the discussion or crowding the front page with a blanket of just one topic...

The Why Austin thread is on page 3. The front page is certainly not at risk of being overrun by North Korea.

I honestly don't understand the hostility towards having a related post posted. Once something is off the front page it is not going to be seen be anyone who doesn't already have it in her recent activity list. If I didn't see it already and didn't comment in it, I'm never going to see it. So why waste links in it?

Just asking.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:16 PM on April 3, 2013


Being all arguey about your first post, is no way to go through life son.
posted by timsteil at 7:24 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


Honest question-what's a good source for quality, real time analysis of current events?

Check your MeMail.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:44 PM on April 3, 2013


Honestly, "North Korea, go" would've sufficed for me (or should I say to get the community started on).

I totally know that feeling. And I think that's one of the tricky deceptive things about making the transition from reader/commenter to poster, and one that's not obvious to a person before they grapple with it: it's really easy to think "hey, I like discussions on Metafilter, let's have a discussion" without thinking about what the post you're making is worth on its own.

My rule of thumb when I'm thinking about posting something is basically this: if something went wrong with the commenting function right after I made my post, would it still have been worth it? If I can't say yes, it's not a post I'm gonna make, because I want it to be a link or set of links that are worth it in their own right.

I still very much value the discussion that ends up following my occasional posts, and I love participating in discussion on mefi and have for literally a dozen years now, but the post still has to be about the links.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:56 PM on April 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


AskMe.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:01 PM on April 3, 2013


jessamyn: "I think my contributions here have gotten cheerier now that I have to click a rainbow unicorn to make them."

I can wholeheartedly recommend the Rainbow Unicorn & Narwhal script, plus the Hedgehog Comment Pointer and the one that brings back Jessamyn's star.

MeFi is meant to be fun and these things make it more so.
posted by subbes at 8:10 PM on April 3, 2013


I'm doing it wrong apparently. Enlighten me.

You're doing it right. You made a fine post. Sometimes good posts get deleted for reasons that are outside of your control (it was a double, there's an ongoing thread about it, mods don't want to deal with the subject right now, etc). You're not a bad mefite. Make another good post tomorrow about something else.
posted by empath at 8:20 PM on April 3, 2013


Yeah, actually, I'm a little surprised by that deletion, too. I didn't follow the "why Austin" thread because it was mainly about a joke, and started out basically as a place to compile bad jokes.

I think there is something to be said for MetaFilter's particular ability to address current events in rational, smart, informative and interesting ways, and though I know a lot of mod-folks dislike BreakingNewsFilter, it's my favorite filter when it works.

Having said that, what I really would love to see is a DPRK MMLP (massively multi-link post) that will keep me down a rabbit hole for days.
posted by brina at 9:39 PM on April 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'd still argue that the Korea situation deserves a post, so maybe someone with more street cred than me can pull it off.

See, it still seems to me that part of the confusion is that you want to make a post because you think MeFi ought to be talking about a subject, rather than because you found something -- or better yet a cluster of several interconnected somethings -- very cool and interesting on the web that you wanted to share. The latter is considered "best practice" in MeFi posting, as I understand it.
posted by aught at 6:40 AM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


when it works
When NewsFilter works is when a great post is made. It is very hard to have great discussion under a poor post. Not that the OP's post was poor! But Not able to engender great discussion.

There seems to be a sense that the community here is SO SMART that we can have "discussions" about anything, and it will turn out well. But the reason the community formed and continues to exist is because it centers on finding and making good posts. Without the good posts as a draw, is the community self-sustaining? Do people come to MetaFilter just because it is MeFi, and not for the links at all?

or better yet a cluster of several interconnected somethings
I love these posts, and I love making posts like this. But I am still looking for the perfect single-link.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just wanted to post more encouragement to karst. I've got 5 front page posts, 2 of which generated MeTas and at least 3 deleted FPPs. Yet I still lack enough shame to come here every day. This doesn't go on your permanent record and nothing about your post was a fundamental misunderstanding of how the site works.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:09 AM on April 4, 2013


Yeah we try as mods to be clear that everyone gets posts deleted occasionally, people that post more than never. And it's not a big deal. Some people take it sort of personally but it's not meant that way, we don't really keep track ans we don't see deleted posts as any sort of blemish on people's MeFi records. In fact, we're generally happy if people try things out here (as long as they don't seem to be doing weird performance art, trolling or stunt posting) if they're genuinely sharing something neat they found on the web. Keep posting. Check out other posts that you like. See what makes you like them. Adjust. Try again.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:16 AM on April 4, 2013


Again, I accept the decision, no hard feelings, kumbaya and all that. It was a weak post and if I want to make the FP I've got to come correct.

I guess the two most relevant links in my post were the closing of the factories and NK's plans to enrich plutonium and uranium. But the story is huge. How does the US prevent a nuclear state from "becoming" a nuclear state. That ship has sailed. Who is KJU? How will he react? What military steps are being taken by the US, Japan, SK, and NK? What's China's role in all this. Maybe a good, quality massive multi-link post would be acceptable?

Serious question-is it really 22 more days until someone can do a link to anything related to NK? Or can I try again?
posted by karst at 7:47 AM on April 4, 2013


You can certainly try again, but maybe give the other post a while to wind down so your post doesn't look like it's a follow up (I know the topics are different). And leave the snark out of it. On difficult political posts the easiest way to pre-doom your post is using language that makes it seem like "Here is where we make fun of North Korea" MetaFilter is, at its core, not a news blog. This means not only that we don't have a moderation team as if we were a news blog (so contentious front page topics aren't really like "yay clickthroughs!" but more like "ugh fighting") but also posts should be linking to something interesting on the web. A summary of what people are doing about this big problem is good. A few tossed together links that are basically like "Let's talk about North Korea" less good, though there have certainly been posts in that are that have stayed up.

And lastly, the fact that "there is a storm brewing" types of posts get people agitated and sometimes argumentative and irascible. It's totally possible to write a post that is basically neutral even if it's about a topic that is really not that neutral. The mistake people tend to make is presuming that people will have a very similar perspective to their own and so it's okay to make generalizations and snark and expect people to join in. On nerdy lifestyle topics this may be true, on political type posts it rarely is. So trying to be like "these are the facts" or "these are people reporting on the facts" are significantly better than "here is an op ed of someone who agrees/disagrees with me. Discuss."

In any case, please give it a few days, whatever you decide.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:57 AM on April 4, 2013


I kind of wonder if "Metafilter is a community blog, not a forum" is something that should be made more explicit to new users, perhaps in the FAQ. The level of discussion here is incredible - but I do think that the posts that work best are the ones that start out with quality content, and the comments sections that turn out best are the ones where everyone RTFA.
posted by capricorn at 8:06 AM on April 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


> I know single link is frowned upon.

Only by fools.

Don't be discouraged by the deletion, but please take on board what people are saying about posting cool stuff rather than discussion fodder. It may be hard to make that mental adjustment, because you're so clearly driven in the latter direction, but really, even though everybody loves the discussion here, the fundamental thing is the links. If you want to discuss Korea but can't find a really good link, all you can do is wait. And frankly, the best thing would be to get the "I want MeFi to discuss X" out of your brain as best you can, because it can only lead to sorrow even if the post isn't deleted.
posted by languagehat at 11:35 AM on April 4, 2013 [3 favorites]


Fun fact: Searching for "North Korea" does not being up the apparently overwhelmingly relevant Austin thread.
posted by Artw at 6:31 PM on April 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


Fidel Castro to North Korea: nuclear war will benefit no one
posted by karst at 11:45 AM on April 5, 2013


Please do not turn this MeTa thread into a discussion-by-proxy for the topic that you wanted to discuss in the deleted MeFi thread.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:21 PM on April 5, 2013


Oops. I thought this was the Austin thread. Too many windows open. Blue=filter, brown=talk. Feel free to delete.
posted by karst at 12:27 PM on April 5, 2013


Artw: "Fun fact: Searching for "North Korea" does not being up the apparently overwhelmingly relevant Austin thread."

I ran into this too. The Austin thread has "north" and "korea" but not "north korea" in the tags.
posted by Big_B at 2:37 PM on April 5, 2013


New post.
posted by Artw at 9:39 PM on April 5, 2013


Nice job, Artw!
posted by karst at 5:59 AM on April 6, 2013


Hey it's an exclusive club, friend. My first post was an obit for Gordon Hinckly, and it was deleted by Matt because he felt like the discussion would be a train wreck. I buried my anger deep down in a dark place for several years, until he added me to his LinkedIn contacts. Now we are the best of friends, and have a wife swap planned for later this month.
posted by Brocktoon at 6:03 AM on April 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


The new post is good.

MetaFilter's particular ability to address current events in rational, smart, informative and interesting ways,

That isn't present in the new post. You have one guy getting piled on for stupidly advocating a preemptive all-out nuclear attack, people declaring that they don't know anything about the DPRK but have strong opinions that must be shared, people who think that missile technology doesn't cross between satellite launches and ICBM launches, people who don't know how nuclear non-proliferation works but have strong opinions on it, people who have no idea how joint RoK/US military exercises work, etc.

There is an enormous amount of noise in that thread.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:01 PM on April 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


That isn't present in the new post.
Please excuse me, I mean it isn't in the comments on the new post.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:03 PM on April 6, 2013


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