outragetalk July 10, 2013 9:39 AM   Subscribe

I'm really disappointed that this Amazon thread was deleted. I saw the deletion reason but I think that the discussion that was happening was totally worthwhile, and though the FPP was a bit thin, we see much thinner posts that stand. I don't think just dismissing it as outragefilter is fair, if for no reason than it shuts down a great discussion that could have happened. I'd like to see it opened back up.

(I'm hoping this is an ok use of metatalk? This sort of thing seems like a bit of a grey area to me, wrt whether it should be a contact form thing.).
posted by windykites to Etiquette/Policy at 9:39 AM (50 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

The FPP was apparently based on a false assumption. So what was the point of it? For example:

You know, I don't like monopolies, but when I clicked on the link within the link to the NY Times story, I saw the first book mentioned was "Born to Lose." I did a Google search and in under 1 minute found 15 retailers selling the book at various prices, almost all of them higher than the price on Amazon.

Something here is just not ringing true.

posted by KokuRyu at 9:41 AM on July 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


If the FPP were just thin, I'd agree with you. But it was a thin FPP, a bare amount of poking revealed some glaring or suspicious (depending on your level of cynicism) holes, and the source was an interested party. That's not a great use of MetaFilter—no offense to the OP—and I agree with the deletion.
posted by cribcage at 9:47 AM on July 10, 2013 [5 favorites]


I thought it was going OK.
posted by boo_radley at 9:47 AM on July 10, 2013


Having been on your end of things, I can tell you that good discussion or desire to provoke discussion isn't sufficient rationale for an FPP.
posted by banal evil at 9:54 AM on July 10, 2013


I don't think just dismissing it as outragefilter is fair, if for no reason than it shuts down a great discussion that could have happened. I'd like to see it opened back up.

There are lots of good discussions that could be had on the back of iffy posts; that's not the metric by which we evaluate this stuff, because if it was the front page would be a nightmare. I appreciate that you were interested in the discussion, I actually think it's an interesting topic as well, but that's the whole reason why the deletion reason says "do better" rather than "never do this".
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:56 AM on July 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


Fair enough, Cortex. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective. Thanks.
posted by windykites at 10:00 AM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


Fair enough? What sort of MetaTalk post is this? No accusations of racisms or claims that the moderation has become too heavy handed?
posted by Area Man at 10:09 AM on July 10, 2013 [29 favorites]


*hulks out*
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:10 AM on July 10, 2013 [12 favorites]


If you want to do an FPP about the book/e-book market, there's lots of good material out there. Just today Apple was convicted of price fixing in the e-book market. Do some research, find some good well-argued pieces, maybe even with reliable data, and make a new FPP.
posted by alms at 10:10 AM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


The system works!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:10 AM on July 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


Because we got hulk-cortex? What kind of system is that?

(Note: the answer "An awesome one!" is suitable)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:12 AM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


To Area Man's point, it would be more efficient if we could arrange the necessary elements of MetaTalk posts into table form for easier reference and inclusion. Thus, you wouldn't need to actually bring up racism, accusations of heavy-handed moderation, or the concept of a nanny state. You could instead just end your post with, "Oh, and 7, 13 and 24. And a little bit of 19, as well," where 19 indicates your desire to cut off your own hand.
posted by Curious Artificer at 10:13 AM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Metatalk Bingo
posted by Chrysostom at 10:18 AM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


cortex: "*hulks out*"

This explains the very rarely seen "I think you meant to post this over on Metatalk." deletion reason.
posted by boo_radley at 10:18 AM on July 10, 2013




Puny Gods Mods!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:40 AM on July 10, 2013 [5 favorites]


You could instead just end your post with, "Oh, and 7, 13 and 24. And a little bit of 19, as well," where 19 indicates your desire to cut off your own hand.

Guy gets a job with a construction crew who have all been working together for years and years.

The first few days go well enough, but he keeps hearing weird conversations where one worker will say a seemingly random number, like "3" or "12", and the others start cracking up.

After a week of this, he pulls one of them aside and asks what the deal is with all the numbers and laughing.

"It's jokes," the other worker tells him. "We've all been together for so long and have been telling the same jokes for so long that we just refer to them by number now to save time."

So the new guy, wanting to fit in better, waits for his chance. When there's a lull in the conversation, he picks a number that previously got a particularly hearty laugh and says, "7!"

No response, apart from a quiet throat clearing.

Later, he asks his friend what went wrong.

"Well, it was the way you told it."
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:50 AM on July 10, 2013 [8 favorites]


The variation I've heard on that is one of the guys says "33" and everybody laughs way harder than usual. When asked why: "We hadn't heard that one before!"
posted by kmz at 10:57 AM on July 10, 2013


Yeah, those jokes were my reference. I heard it as a bunch of professional comedians though.
posted by Curious Artificer at 10:59 AM on July 10, 2013


I know it as mathematicians at a conference.

We should number these variants so we can refer to them more concisely.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:01 AM on July 10, 2013 [9 favorites]


69
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:02 AM on July 10, 2013


...The Aristocrats!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:03 AM on July 10, 2013 [5 favorites]


*hulks out*

Son, you got yourself a condition.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:09 AM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Huh. I heard it as prisoners in jail.

We should number these variants so we can refer to them more concisely.

Clearly the prison variant is 11.
posted by booksherpa at 12:09 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hey windykites, if you're interested in building an Amazon post on pricing and fairness, here are a few other links to consider.

WSJ discovers Amazon's dynamic pricing and then reports on it behind a wall.

Amazon finally collecting sales tax

Amazon now officially largest seller of American textbooks (Check out the last graph)

Amazon Pricing in International Markets

And there's the New York Times piece that Melville House based their post on.

Hope that's helpful. I'm sure there's more but that's what I came up with off the top of my head (and a quick review of my twitter feed.)
posted by Toekneesan at 12:38 PM on July 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm trapped in my bathroom because there's a hornet out there, but this thread makes it all ok.
posted by windykites at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2013 [8 favorites]


I'm sure askme can help.
posted by Toekneesan at 2:21 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


That would make a good question for the green: "I'm trapped in the bathroom by a hornet. How can I get out without being stung?"

Could you wrap yourself in towels and venture forth? (Don't do this if you are allergic and being stung would be dangerous.)
posted by Area Man at 2:21 PM on July 10, 2013


I'm trapped in my bathroom because there's a hornet out there, but this thread makes it all ok.

A problem with MetaFilter as reading material is that you can't roll it up and kill your deadly enemies. Well, not without destroying your reading device.

Perhaps Hulk-Cortex will come battle the hornet. Tell him it's a mutated General Ross or has the 10th Hellraiser film.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:22 PM on July 10, 2013


Turn on the shower. Wet a towel. Hold the wet towel over your face. Set the house on fire. Get in the shower. Wait.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:23 PM on July 10, 2013 [20 favorites]


Hulkortex.
posted by laconic skeuomorph at 2:24 PM on July 10, 2013


Actually if you have the means to produce a flame along with any sort of aerosol product, you have an instant flamethrower to fight off the winged beasties.

IANAE (I am not an exterminator.)
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:31 PM on July 10, 2013


or has the 10th Hellraiser film

YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M PODCASTING
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:42 PM on July 10, 2013 [5 favorites]


The subject. You opened it. He came.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:52 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


I had such a great post planned. It was going to say, "I think this publisher might have a bit of an axe to grind with Amazon." Each word (and the period) was going to be a link to a previously published anti-Amazon blog post from Melville House.
posted by Gin and Comics at 5:33 PM on July 10, 2013


69!

I know you've heard this one before, but I thought I told it better than It's Raining Florence Henderson.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:53 PM on July 10, 2013


You told it upside down.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:56 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M PODCASTING

I was going to reply "We'll hulk your pants apart!" but I decided that it might be misconstrued.

I hope that hornet got taken care of. This is more nerve wracking than the cat on the ledge....
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:15 PM on July 10, 2013


I got a 19 in the crib the other day.
posted by tservo at 8:01 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Another link for anyone considering a post about the book market: last year, after three years of triple-digit growth, the rise in ebook sales was "only" 43%. A publisher's rep I spoke with recently said the sharp drop in the rate of growth surprised a lot of folks in publishing; they'd expected at least a few more years of extremely rapid ebook sales growth. Instead, they're having to settle for plain old ordinary rapid.
posted by mediareport at 8:52 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Flashbacks to working for an independent bookstore.

Yeah, the Big Cheese(s) can fuck around with prices all they want to maximize aggregate profit and enjoys special volume-related benefits and asskissing bonuses to boot. I believe this is the whole point of success in Corporate America?
posted by desuetude at 9:06 PM on July 10, 2013


Reinforcements came with death spray and second hand books from an indie bookstore. All is well.

11!
posted by windykites at 9:39 PM on July 10, 2013


*laughs loudly*
posted by booksherpa at 1:55 AM on July 11, 2013

booksherpa: “Huh. I heard it as prisoners in jail. ”
Monks in a monastery here.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:59 AM on July 11, 2013


I read the deleted FPP and saw that RolandofEld referred to the tags. No tags are displayed, is RoE trying to fake me out or is this a display anomaly on deleted FPPs? /derail
posted by arcticseal at 3:16 AM on July 11, 2013


Joke 38's definitely about people in an old people's home. But I'd never heard the "we've never heard that joke before" punchline.
posted by ambrosen at 3:36 AM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


35

(it's actually the Op. no. that belongs to Chopin's second sonata with funeral march - no joke for the hornet, or:

.

)
posted by Namlit at 3:57 AM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can empathize with the poster. I'm trying to come up with an FPP for monday - it's the anniversary of a certain music video appearing online, which was mentioned on MetaFilter just a few hours later while most of the rest of "online" took some time to discover it - and it's difficult.

"Anniversary of music video" is too weak for an FPP and the mods would probably (and rightly) delete it. Supporting sources found so far are all too weak e.g. "Video has been watched a lot of time" (well, yes, we all know), or from suspect entertainment online sources that flood the screen with ads. Haven't found a unique angle from a robust source, so looking like an abandoned FPP. Ah well.
posted by Wordshore at 5:51 AM on July 11, 2013


Tags get wiped when a post is removed.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:29 AM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


The article got linked here if anyone wishes to discuss it.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2013


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