DC car shooting tragdy being conflated with ACA government shutdown October 4, 2013 5:22 PM   Subscribe

Can we please stop posting comments about the tragic death of the mentally disturbed woman who tried to storm the white house in the thread about the government shutdown? The two are unrelated and it is really annoying.
posted by Renoroc to Etiquette/Policy at 5:22 PM (64 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

This is one of those things where it looks like there are two parallel conversations happening that don't really impinge on one another, so it didn't make a ton of sense to me to try to prune/head them off. But asking the community to do so is fine, of course.

I will preemptively remind people, though, this thread needs to not become either of those threads.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:25 PM on October 4, 2013


It's an obvious narrative and hard to resist. Yesterday a mentally ill woman is shot. Today a man lights himself on fire. Every day is chaos and broken. It's difficult to not conflate the events.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:34 PM on October 4, 2013 [16 favorites]


How are they related other than geographically? It's hard to see these other stories as anything other than derails.
posted by ryanrs at 5:40 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


The mentally ill woman event happened in the midst of discussing the shutdown, and of course it looked like it might be related at the time. Of course at this point it is clear it isn't relevant except for the ironic detail of protection by Capitol Police who may not be paid much longer.
posted by bearwife at 5:42 PM on October 4, 2013


How are they related other than geographically?

I am going to honor restless_nomad's request and not make the case. I honestly don't think I could do it in good faith regardless, since that's not what I believe, but I am fairly certain I could do it without too much difficulty.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:55 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think we should try and wind it down now that it is clear it was not related to the shut down.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:58 PM on October 4, 2013


Thread in Question.

I'm pretty conflicted by this meta.

I think it's fine to make this request, and like I said above, I agree with the premise that these events have little to nothing to do with each other, but I can also easily see how others can disagree. I'm not sure what else there is to do besides asking people to not dip into that well. Some people are going to want to, some are going to believe these events are related, and I don't see these opinions as something we'd want to shut down. So I guess I don't see what further purpose this meta serves.

On that note I am closing my browser.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:10 PM on October 4, 2013


As derails go it's been civil and unshouty and doesn't seem to be overwhelming the nominally on topic comments. And the post had three distinct topics in the first place (Government shut down; ACA rollout and debt ceiling).

Though it'll probably die out on it's own as there isn't any immediate on going drama and sadly these kinds of incident are all too common to generate man bites dog interest.
posted by Mitheral at 6:20 PM on October 4, 2013


I am all for letting it die out on its own accord, hopefully sooner rather than later, but whatevs.
posted by Artw at 6:41 PM on October 4, 2013


This is the kind of thing that happens in an unfolding news thread. There are false leads and confusing events. No one means ill. Considering it as maybe related - especially because of the enforcement angle - for a short time is not evidence of inappropriateness. I'm for letting this pass too. It's no big deal.
posted by Miko at 6:48 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


An interesting connection (to me anyways) is that the bits and pieces of information emerging about the woman's paranoid delusions don't seem all that different to me from the stream of craziness produced by various Tea Party representatives and supporters. Not trying to make fun of them here, I'm quite serious. I find that those whom I judge to be true believers as opposed to those who merely put on a show to further their own separate goals, exhibit clear signs of paranoid delusions as we'll and are able to hold several contradictory unprovable truths in their head at once without their heads exploding. So I wonder to what extremes people like that might be willing to go and just how willing they are to burn the house to the ground for the sake of their beliefs and for the purity of a confused ideology.

This, in my mind at least, makes the actions of that woman relevant to the thread. Talking and learning about her sheds some light on the actions and mindsets of the extremists in Congress. Timing, location and focus on the same object make this relevant in my mind even though there's no literal direct connection.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 7:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]




i think this is a case of "this kind of derail doesn't fall into any mod's personal hot-button issues so aside from a reminder or two the derail will stand." in contrast, a similar derail about gender inequality might be vigorously cleaned.
posted by cupcake1337 at 7:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]


doesn't fall into any mod's personal hot-button issues

Oh for fuck's sake.
posted by Ipsifendus at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [59 favorites]


Hahahaha. Yeah. I know who's got some hot-button issues around here, and "mods" aren't first on the list.
posted by Miko at 7:15 PM on October 4, 2013 [62 favorites]


And what's the deal with Mefites and fedoras??!!…
posted by Nomyte at 7:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]


An interesting connection (to me anyways) is that the bits and pieces of information emerging about the woman's paranoid delusions don't seem all that different to me from the stream of craziness produced by various Tea Party representatives and supporters.

Kind of tricky to explain to mentally ill people that they aren't being electronically monitored by the government when they actually are.


Yeah, this sort of thing strikes me as pretty trite and if I saw it in thread if be arguing to have it stomped flat.
posted by Artw at 7:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]


I've been following the thread for the last day or so almost exclusively via RA, and the discussion of the mentally ill woman seemed to be less an ongoing derail and more of a few people discussing it fairly briefly and then the discussion moved on.
posted by rtha at 7:38 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


It is absolutely relevant in the sense that the DC police who eventually shot this woman are only working because they were deemed essential but may not be receiving paychecks a week from now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hey, if it's good enough for cable news to indelicately draw the parallel...
posted by planetesimal at 8:04 PM on October 4, 2013


One thing the USA lacks is a reasonable method of allowing people in extreme mental or physical pain, to die. Yes, to die.

Many schizophrenics live in terror of the voices they hear, in their heads, no matter their medication, or their own evidence from rationality, or their families, or anything else. The God-awful truth is that there are damned few anti-psychotic medications, and that they are hard to titrate in individual cases, and don't always eliminate the symptoms, negative and positive, of schizophrenia, or related spectrum mental illness.

Sometimes, the only thing you can do is cry your tears, and let them go. But, God damn, we can't even humanely let them go, most of the time, in most of our places, even when they want to, even when we, at our best, offer nothing better than a long term cage.
posted by paulsc at 8:20 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]


And what's the deal with Mefites and fedoras??!!…

You know, the word "fedora" is originally a Greek word. It is coming from φειδώ, which is meaning "thriftiness" or "sparingness". So, what sort of hat should be worn sparingly? A fedora. Sparingly, fedora. So, there you go.
posted by Tanizaki at 8:40 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]


One thing the USA lacks is a reasonable method of allowing people in extreme mental or physical pain, to die. Yes, to die.

Wow if this could not turn into a right to die discussion that would be fucking awesome too, thanks.

Especially in the meta.
posted by emptythought at 8:45 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]


You know, the word "fedora" is originally a Greek word. It is coming from φειδώ, which is meaning "thriftiness" or "sparingness".

Fido the Hat?
posted by nangar at 9:00 PM on October 4, 2013


So, the d should be pronounced as th?
posted by Nomyte at 9:01 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


A "fethora" sounds like something Donald Duck would wear.
posted by desjardins at 9:37 PM on October 4, 2013 [9 favorites]


"i think this is a case of "this kind of derail doesn't fall into any mod's personal hot-button issues so aside from a reminder or two the derail will stand." in contrast, a similar derail about gender inequality might be vigorously cleaned."

"Any time I get all weird and demanding about my hermetic gender theories, I get treated like an asshole?"
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on October 4, 2013 [9 favorites]


"Wow if this could not turn into a right to die discussion that would be fucking awesome too, thanks.

Especially in the meta."

posted by emptythought at 11:45 PM on October 4

Point taken. Please also make it, convincingly, to those trembling in fear, tonight, in every mental ward in the country, for whom the only immediate recommendations can be to stay longer, whether against their will or not, and to consume more drugs that don't really work.
posted by paulsc at 9:47 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Any time I get all weird and demanding about my hermetic gender theories, I get treated like an asshole?"

If someone came on MeFi and got weird and demanding about the Kybalion it would be pretty awesome. I don't know how they'd do it, but it would be awesome.

If I weren't so lazy at the moment I would go get The Three Initiates as a joke account, but that would take effort which I require for other purposes.
posted by winna at 9:54 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]



You know, the word "fedora" is originally a Greek word.


This convinces me that you are really the father from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
posted by sweetkid at 10:15 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, let's stick with the post topic about comments in the shutdown thread, and not make this a) a discussion of either mental illness or the shutdown, b) a free-form space for offloading whatever hostility anyone might have about anything, c) a place to renew zombie Metatalk arguments.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:18 PM on October 4, 2013 [9 favorites]


cjorgensen: "It's an obvious narrative and hard to resist. Yesterday a mentally ill woman is shot. Today a man lights himself on fire. Every day is chaos and broken. It's difficult to not conflate the events."

Wait - who lit themselves on fire?
posted by koeselitz at 10:39 PM on October 4, 2013


(Sorry - I found the story now. I hadn't heard about that. Never mind.)
posted by koeselitz at 10:42 PM on October 4, 2013


That thread is a lot less of a clusterfuck than the reality it is talking about.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:59 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


That thread is a lot less of a clusterfuck than the reality it is talking about.

"Less dysfunctional than Congress" is too low of a bar for this internet discussion forum. I'm serious.
posted by ryanrs at 11:01 PM on October 4, 2013 [14 favorites]


I tend to be apocalypse-oriented (my therapist suggested that I try to stop taking a 'cosmic view of things') but as cjorgensen noted, it feels like things are falling apart. One could pretty easily see the parallels in a mind falling apart and the body politic falling apart.

Moreover, this is one of those things like the BP oil spill that is going on and on and on and on but there's not whole lot to do but mock the Congressman who blamed the actions of the mentally ill woman on Obama/Reid/Pelosi, talk about the crying baby commercial, and otherwise express doubt/anxiety/frustration with the situation.

I mean, joking about the woman would be wrong. I don't recall seeing that.

And overall, unless it's Ralph Nader popping up, I'm happier to have a messier discourse.
posted by angrycat at 3:56 AM on October 5, 2013


As a foreigner I have interest in how dysfunctional your government has become.
The fact that your police forces shoot mentally ill people does not surprise me, but the two are not yet related.
posted by adamvasco at 4:03 AM on October 5, 2013


> as cjorgensen noted, it feels like things are falling apart.

Things are always falling apart. Anabolism, catabolism. It's very much easier to spot things that have already become big and important to us and are now unravelling, because we're already paying attention to them. And very much harder to pick out things that are forming and coming together and will become very important to us in the future, because who knows which ones they are? Which means it's hard to take comfort from these. But both kinds are always there.
posted by jfuller at 4:38 AM on October 5, 2013 [9 favorites]


It happened when it happened and people thought it was directly related. So that's where it ended up. It got live blogged like things have for years here.

Every once in a while it pops up again, because new people haven't seen the video and don't realize how she was using her car as a weapon and the restraint the police showed.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:17 AM on October 5, 2013


The actual history of the fedora is even cooler than the Tanizaki's joke etymology: 19th century women's rights activists and a cross-dressing thespian all adopted this hat literally named after a "gift of god."
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:49 AM on October 5, 2013


Things are always falling apart.

Yep, this. Change is constant and everywhere. Actual, dramatic, discrete collapses are very rare. Even when they do occur, life goes on. The chaos in the capital is not a sign that things are ending, but that things are continuing.

Anyway, here's a relevant Daily Show clip, about the futile search for the good old days.

...

There are police standoffs with desperate and mentally ill people all the time, all over the world, during good times and bad. There's no grand significance to the fact that this one occurred near the Capitol, during this time. Unless, of course, we're saying that the two events have grand significance because we say so, in which case, there's no grand significance to anything having alleged grand significance.

At most, there's a broader story here about how the US treats mental illness on a systemic level, but that would have been the broader story anyhow, no matter if this incident had occurred during Shutdownpalooza.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:27 AM on October 5, 2013 [5 favorites]


> this hat literally named after a "gift of god."

No, it was literally named after a Russian princess called Fedora, the Russian version of Theodora. We can discuss the etymology of Theodora if you like, but it has nothing to do with the hat.
posted by languagehat at 10:24 AM on October 5, 2013 [18 favorites]


You would be the expert on that, wouldn't you?
posted by zombieflanders at 10:53 AM on October 5, 2013 [16 favorites]


The man knows language. And hats. I surely would not argue.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:13 AM on October 5, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh man I asked for that, didn't I?
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:17 PM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]


*rides off into sunset, waving cowboy hat*
posted by languagehat at 1:34 PM on October 5, 2013 [10 favorites]


actually, you're all wrong - the fedorallallong was an australian animal that was a cross between a felt-shelled turtle, a marsupial armadillo, and a platypus with a bill facing in ALL directions - their legs were too short to be very useful, but fortunately they were light enough that they could just pull them up and let the wind blow them around like tumbleweeds until they got somewhere they liked better - the aborigines respected them and they had no predators as they tasted, well, like hats - in spite of this, their numbers never overwhelmed the environment - their main food, hatched platypus egg shells, could be very hard to find and mating was only possible on very still days as otherwise one or both would be blown away before they could figure out which end was which

even when the convicts came to establish the great land of oz, they survived as no one had a use for them - even the recent adoption of their shells as nests by drop koalas to lay their eggs in weren't enough to endanger them

but alas, when the australian government imported a few joecamels from the deserts of turkey they escaped - worse, they escaped without their hats

within a few years, joecamels had all placed the fedorallallongs on their heads leaving them unable to forage or reproduce - but before that happened, american tourists from virginia snapped some photographs and showed them back home, giving us the inspiration for camel cigarettes and the now americanized fedora

and now - you know the rest of the story
posted by pyramid termite at 1:46 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


it was literally named after a Russian princess called Fedora

That's why we call it the Russian Fedoration.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 2:17 PM on October 5, 2013 [14 favorites]


That's why we call it the Russian Fedoration.

Booooo!
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:28 PM on October 5, 2013


Fédora's name derives from Theodore. I wonder if there's a counterfactual world where teddies are considered to be an ironic nod to outdated fashion.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:20 PM on October 5, 2013


Now I'm imagining pickup artists wearing lingerie because they think it makes them "alpha".
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:35 PM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]


A "fethora" sounds like something Donald Duck would wear.
posted by Desjardins


More like Donald Trump amirite?
posted by spitbull at 3:47 PM on October 5, 2013


Now I'm imagining pickup artists wearing lingerie because they think it makes them "alpha".

At the risk of being glib about grim things, I'm reminded of how Charles Taylor's militia wore wedding gowns and fright wigs.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:50 PM on October 5, 2013


How are fedoras any different than recipes when it comes to meta? I'm pretty sure we were told to stop that, so I'm going to suggest the hat talk needs to stop too. It's tedious. If I am wrong, let's bring back the recipes. At least when they are off topic I give a shit (and I own some fedoras).

Nom nom nom. Tell me I am wrong!
posted by cjorgensen at 4:13 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm reminded of how Charles Taylor's militia wore wedding gowns and fright wigs.

What? Huh.

This is some real Golden Bough craziness.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:19 PM on October 5, 2013


Anyone have a recipe for a nice rhubarb crisp? if not, maybe shut this one down?

No is fine too.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:27 PM on October 5, 2013


Mmm, rhubarb crisp. & ever since that thread, we've been precooking/prenuking the rhubarb, cuz we're lazy like that.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2013


"Nom nom nom. Tell me I am wrong!"

I think you're right, but I like both recipes and hat talk so maybe I'm not the best judge.
posted by klangklangston at 1:58 AM on October 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


a place to renew zombie Metatalk arguments.

But if we don't have zombie Metatalk arguments, how will we ever be able to create the Mefite post-apocalypse world where we're all making bread and jam and knitting and the gunny folks are patrolling the edges of our farm and everyone is happy together?
posted by corb at 5:49 AM on October 6, 2013


I’d be interested in your fedora recipes.
posted by bongo_x at 11:05 AM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Should the fedora be declawed before being boiled alive?
posted by blue_beetle at 11:16 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's interesting that you mention recipes, because 'fedora' is actually a contraction of the Portuguese 'feijão derruba', 'overthrown beans'.

The hat is so called because it resembles a plate atop a pot of beans.

The legends say that the hat's inventor, Miguel, thought long and hard about how to invert the pot to get the beans on the plate. Suddenly, he was enlightened:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:31 AM on October 8, 2013 [2 favorites]


So this guy would be improperly dressed?
posted by jfuller at 5:10 AM on October 8, 2013


corb, as our quartermaster, shall make sure we all have leather Fedoras' with small gunpowder charges in the band. These will be called Zombie Pop-hats.
posted by clavdivs at 7:42 AM on October 9, 2013


« Older El Meta   |   Minimallist MeFi Chat Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments