Leveraging the community to help develop Mefi functionality? June 9, 2014 6:21 AM Subscribe
Now that the site is partly crowdfunded, would it make sense to also draw on the software development skills in the community to help develop new functionality? What would it take to have that be possible?
With the arrival of Fanfare, there are lots of ideas for potential new functionality, some of which are already on the roadmap for development.
Given that there is a lot of software development skill in the community, is there potential for leveraging that to help develop more functionality faster?
What would be the pros and cons of trying to do such a thing? What would it take on the part of Mefi staff to enable it to happen? To what extent can it already happen? (e.g. Lots of people seem to make scripts to alter site presentation and navigation.)
Is there enough interest on the community's part or Mefi's part to investigate the possibilities?
With the arrival of Fanfare, there are lots of ideas for potential new functionality, some of which are already on the roadmap for development.
Given that there is a lot of software development skill in the community, is there potential for leveraging that to help develop more functionality faster?
What would be the pros and cons of trying to do such a thing? What would it take on the part of Mefi staff to enable it to happen? To what extent can it already happen? (e.g. Lots of people seem to make scripts to alter site presentation and navigation.)
Is there enough interest on the community's part or Mefi's part to investigate the possibilities?
It's been years since I did development, so this is only a guess, but since MeFi is built in Cold Fusion, I'm thinking the answer is probably "No."
This isn't a situation where source code can just get passed around and people can chip in.
I mean, obviously, this is a question for the mods, really. But I'm betting it's just not practical.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:45 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
This isn't a situation where source code can just get passed around and people can chip in.
I mean, obviously, this is a question for the mods, really. But I'm betting it's just not practical.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:45 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
This seems like a solution in search of a problem. So far site software development has worked fine.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:47 AM on June 9, 2014 [43 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:47 AM on June 9, 2014 [43 favorites]
Functionality isn't limited by programming resources - it's limited by the site's mission and members' needs.
posted by Think_Long at 6:50 AM on June 9, 2014 [17 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 6:50 AM on June 9, 2014 [17 favorites]
Now that lots of people are chipping in for this broth, maybe they should all start helping to cook it.
posted by Wolfdog at 6:51 AM on June 9, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 6:51 AM on June 9, 2014 [9 favorites]
New functionality? I spit on new functionality.
posted by Segundus at 6:58 AM on June 9, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 6:58 AM on June 9, 2014 [6 favorites]
Too many cooks spoil the broth.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:03 AM on June 9, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by Pudhoho at 7:03 AM on June 9, 2014 [14 favorites]
This doesn't strike me as a particularly supportable idea. Thinking of all the pony requests that come in here, now people would end up just building them on their own, despite what technical or desired design/functionality. That will go on for a few weeks, then (many) people would get tired of the code, and neglect all those ponies, except for a dedicated few.
Is there an example of a community based *non-dev* site where this has worked well? Yes, I am aware of dedicated open source communities and projects, but this is taking a well known, well working private site, and trying to force it to open source.
posted by kellyblah at 7:04 AM on June 9, 2014
Is there an example of a community based *non-dev* site where this has worked well? Yes, I am aware of dedicated open source communities and projects, but this is taking a well known, well working private site, and trying to force it to open source.
posted by kellyblah at 7:04 AM on June 9, 2014
It's possible I'm being hypersensitive to this issue, and I'm sure this wasn't your intention philipy, but I sure hope we don't see a lot of posts with the theme "Now that Metafilter is partially crowdfunded, let's change X about the way this place works." I'm contributing to Metafilter to keep it the way it is, not because I want it to change dramatically, and it's particularly worth noting that I don't think my contribution gives me an ownership stake in the site. I trust Matt and the mods to keep doing the awesome job they've been doing.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:05 AM on June 9, 2014 [165 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:05 AM on June 9, 2014 [165 favorites]
Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the donations have to do with this idea. It can stand on its own or not.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
The site was always partially crowdfunded. Remember that five dollars?
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:26 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:26 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm totally skeptical of this idea, and honestly think it would be a terrible idea, but I have to admit that that's mostly because I have never in my life heard of a web site that functioned this way. Is that just a blind spot for me, though? Can anybody name any examples of sites that run this way?
Aside from being technically an odd and maybe unworkable idea, I'm not sure I like it ethically at all. People pay to help fund the site because they see value in it and that's a contribution they can make that makes sense. But asking people to work for free crosses a line for me. There are a number of companies that solicit help from the voluntariat, but it seems to me that that's a somewhat sleazy thing to do when a company is making money and paying people's salaries.
I rather prefer the idea of Metafilter being run by professional people who are good at their jobs and have the support of the community.
posted by koeselitz at 7:36 AM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Aside from being technically an odd and maybe unworkable idea, I'm not sure I like it ethically at all. People pay to help fund the site because they see value in it and that's a contribution they can make that makes sense. But asking people to work for free crosses a line for me. There are a number of companies that solicit help from the voluntariat, but it seems to me that that's a somewhat sleazy thing to do when a company is making money and paying people's salaries.
I rather prefer the idea of Metafilter being run by professional people who are good at their jobs and have the support of the community.
posted by koeselitz at 7:36 AM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's a very nice thought but it's also really impractical, yeah. Our bottleneck is basically never "pb can't accomplish that", it's process stuff—design, testing, iterating, layout—that can't be reasonably rushed by chucking personhours at the problem.
And that's before even getting into the amount of work that would be required just to sanely expose and organize and manage contributions to the codebase.
Properly managing an open-source development community would be a full time job in its own right, which more than defeats the purpose regardless of the good intentions behind the suggestion.
(e.g. Lots of people seem to make scripts to alter site presentation and navigation.)
Which is great and I think makes a case by example for what is vs. isn't workable; the nice thing about user script stuff is the development and result is all totally self-contained, so what someone needs to develop one is just their own familiarity with the exposed functionality of the site, not knowledge of the internals; access to publicly available site output, not access to site code. Isolated script developers can bite off only exactly as much as they want to chew and it keeps any problems or conflicts in those scripts self-contained. The downside is less programming power/flexibility than if we had a direct API of some sort; the upside is literally everything else about the situation. The leap from API access to direct code contributions is another big one beyond even that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:45 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
And that's before even getting into the amount of work that would be required just to sanely expose and organize and manage contributions to the codebase.
Properly managing an open-source development community would be a full time job in its own right, which more than defeats the purpose regardless of the good intentions behind the suggestion.
(e.g. Lots of people seem to make scripts to alter site presentation and navigation.)
Which is great and I think makes a case by example for what is vs. isn't workable; the nice thing about user script stuff is the development and result is all totally self-contained, so what someone needs to develop one is just their own familiarity with the exposed functionality of the site, not knowledge of the internals; access to publicly available site output, not access to site code. Isolated script developers can bite off only exactly as much as they want to chew and it keeps any problems or conflicts in those scripts self-contained. The downside is less programming power/flexibility than if we had a direct API of some sort; the upside is literally everything else about the situation. The leap from API access to direct code contributions is another big one beyond even that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:45 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
This is still a business that someone is running. It takes manhours - a not insignificant amount - to manage/administer a bunch of newbie volunteers.
And I also hope this isn't how people are going to treat Metafilter just because they're paying something to use the site.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:48 AM on June 9, 2014 [8 favorites]
And I also hope this isn't how people are going to treat Metafilter just because they're paying something to use the site.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:48 AM on June 9, 2014 [8 favorites]
And I also hope this isn't how people are going to treat Metafilter just because they're paying something to use the site.
I totally understand people having this reaction to the idea of a "because we paid money, ergo..." type propositions, but I don't think that was what philipy was going for at all so I'd rather people not pile on about that. If anything I think the intent was the opposite: "we're helping via method x; can we also help with method y?" Which is a really kind thought, just in this case not one that we can practically answer in the affirmative.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:51 AM on June 9, 2014 [36 favorites]
I totally understand people having this reaction to the idea of a "because we paid money, ergo..." type propositions, but I don't think that was what philipy was going for at all so I'd rather people not pile on about that. If anything I think the intent was the opposite: "we're helping via method x; can we also help with method y?" Which is a really kind thought, just in this case not one that we can practically answer in the affirmative.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:51 AM on June 9, 2014 [36 favorites]
Now that lots of people are chipping in for this broth, maybe they should all start helping to cook it.
Needs more whipped cream.
posted by y2karl at 7:59 AM on June 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
Needs more whipped cream.
posted by y2karl at 7:59 AM on June 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
This all being said, perhaps we could organize a periodic "Pay pb to work overtime" drive that would allow us to implement backend features that don't necessarily have a huge payoff, but might be on the backlog.
Automated infodump updates come to mind as one such thing that would be nice, but totally isn't a priority... If we could pay PB to spend a day tweaking the mobile stylesheet, I also wouldn't complain about that either.
posted by schmod at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2014
Automated infodump updates come to mind as one such thing that would be nice, but totally isn't a priority... If we could pay PB to spend a day tweaking the mobile stylesheet, I also wouldn't complain about that either.
posted by schmod at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2014
Haha, he's just kidding pb. It's cool man. Thanks for everything!
posted by BeerFilter at 8:12 AM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by BeerFilter at 8:12 AM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Pay pb to work overtime
I honestly suspect we would not be able to pay pb to not work overtime. The guy is a workhorse, we often have conversations over email that go like
Josh: Hey, I had an idea about a tweak for x. Worth trying?
Matt: Oh, hmm. Yeah, we could think about that, maybe after the weekend we'll look at—
pb: here's a prototype for x
Josh: wait that also does y, how did you—
pb: seemed like the thing to do
Matt: it's the weekend, you don't need to be—
pb: also it does z now, lemme see if I can make z more efficient—
Matt: you are camping, work on this on Monday—
pb: got z working better, take a look now
Josh: you are literally in the wilderness, HOW DO YOU EVEN HAVE A DATA CONNECTION
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:12 AM on June 9, 2014 [295 favorites]
I honestly suspect we would not be able to pay pb to not work overtime. The guy is a workhorse, we often have conversations over email that go like
Josh: Hey, I had an idea about a tweak for x. Worth trying?
Matt: Oh, hmm. Yeah, we could think about that, maybe after the weekend we'll look at—
pb: here's a prototype for x
Josh: wait that also does y, how did you—
pb: seemed like the thing to do
Matt: it's the weekend, you don't need to be—
pb: also it does z now, lemme see if I can make z more efficient—
Matt: you are camping, work on this on Monday—
pb: got z working better, take a look now
Josh: you are literally in the wilderness, HOW DO YOU EVEN HAVE A DATA CONNECTION
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:12 AM on June 9, 2014 [295 favorites]
^ that has actually happened at least a dozen times before.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:20 AM on June 9, 2014 [119 favorites]
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:20 AM on June 9, 2014 [119 favorites]
Also, yeah, I appreciate the sentiment behind it, but logistically, it's a non-starter. A combo of old weird programming language, insane work of managing volunteer code and review, and coding speed is rarely a limiting factor.
Honestly, I can't think of the last time we had an idea for a thing, mapped out how it would work, mocked it up, and then had to wait more than a couple of hours before there was a working demo. New features coming to MeFi aren't limited by pb's time, it's almost always having to figure out how something should work and look and act, and if it's even a good idea in the first place to do it. New features come on board somewhat slowly from the idea to the public stage and that's a good thing for a long-running site like this.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:24 AM on June 9, 2014 [14 favorites]
Honestly, I can't think of the last time we had an idea for a thing, mapped out how it would work, mocked it up, and then had to wait more than a couple of hours before there was a working demo. New features coming to MeFi aren't limited by pb's time, it's almost always having to figure out how something should work and look and act, and if it's even a good idea in the first place to do it. New features come on board somewhat slowly from the idea to the public stage and that's a good thing for a long-running site like this.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:24 AM on June 9, 2014 [14 favorites]
The idea that people might be talking about features because they feel entitled after donating kind of rankles me. For one, MeFi feature requests are nearly as old as MeFi. And for another, there's a reason we often call them "pony requests": it's a bit like asking your folks for a pony--sure you'd love it, but you have to understand it's a big thing to which you are not entitled and if told no, you'll just have to let it go.
I haven't seen anyone being pushy or unkind or impatient about anything.
And since FanFare is new and discussion of its future is an open topic, a fair amount of chatter on future features is expected and reasonable. I don't think anyone's waving their coupla bucks in the air and making demands.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen anyone being pushy or unkind or impatient about anything.
And since FanFare is new and discussion of its future is an open topic, a fair amount of chatter on future features is expected and reasonable. I don't think anyone's waving their coupla bucks in the air and making demands.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:41 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
The site was always partially crowdfunded. Remember that five dollars?
"Always?" Some of us have been around long enough to remember that that wasn't always the case.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:06 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
"Always?" Some of us have been around long enough to remember that that wasn't always the case.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:06 AM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
cortex: "pb: also it does z now, lemme see if I can make z more efficient—"
Matt you hold pb, you hear me? You hold him and you never let him go.
posted by boo_radley at 9:21 AM on June 9, 2014 [29 favorites]
Matt you hold pb, you hear me? You hold him and you never let him go.
posted by boo_radley at 9:21 AM on June 9, 2014 [29 favorites]
Clone him, perhaps? (But make him single and on the east coast?)
posted by Melismata at 9:30 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:30 AM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Limited functionality is a feature.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:33 AM on June 9, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 9:33 AM on June 9, 2014 [8 favorites]
Cortex: "...Which is a really kind thought, just in this case not one that we can practically answer in the affirmative."
Maybe leads to a different question for MetaFilter HQ? In addition to cold, hard, cash, are there other ways in which MeFites can assist MetaFilter to survive / operate / flourish?
posted by Wordshore at 9:38 AM on June 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
Maybe leads to a different question for MetaFilter HQ? In addition to cold, hard, cash, are there other ways in which MeFites can assist MetaFilter to survive / operate / flourish?
posted by Wordshore at 9:38 AM on June 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Time is the great thickener of things." -- Abraham Lincoln movie
Sometimes things changing slowly is a virtue and can prevent other bad things.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2014
Sometimes things changing slowly is a virtue and can prevent other bad things.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2014
blue_beetle beat me to it, but part of mefi's charm and attraction (for me anyway) is its simplicity. This seems antithetical to that.
posted by jferg at 10:13 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jferg at 10:13 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
But but but, what about the virtual 3D haptic enhanced webgl accelerated UI? With crowd sourced big data auto-snark-optimization plug-in architecture?
posted by sammyo at 10:26 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 10:26 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Time is the great thickener of things."
I usually use corn starch or tapioca.
posted by maryr at 10:29 AM on June 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
I usually use corn starch or tapioca.
posted by maryr at 10:29 AM on June 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
In addition to cold, hard, cash, are there other ways in which MeFites can assist MetaFilter to survive / operate / flourish?
Be awesome people on the site and good ambassadors off it is really about all we can ask.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2014 [25 favorites]
Be awesome people on the site and good ambassadors off it is really about all we can ask.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2014 [25 favorites]
Community access to the source code isn't allowed because someone always changes Favorites to Butts.
posted by michaelh at 10:57 AM on June 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 10:57 AM on June 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'm against this open sourcing idea; I like the benevolent dictatorship model. However, if called upon to serve, I would gladly hack away.
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:04 AM on June 9, 2014
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:04 AM on June 9, 2014
"Time is the great thickener of things."
I usually use corn starch or tapioca.
The next line in the movie is actually pretty awesome.
Seward (in response to LIncoln): "I suppose it is. Actually, I have no idea what you mean."
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:28 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I usually use corn starch or tapioca.
The next line in the movie is actually pretty awesome.
Seward (in response to LIncoln): "I suppose it is. Actually, I have no idea what you mean."
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:28 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oh, don't use corn starch. When you use corn starch to thicken gravy and then stick leftovers in the fridge overnight, it turns gelatinous. In addition to being unappetizing, it is kind of creepy.
I am glad this pony request has been unequivocally denied. Volunteer supported stuff is often really crappy. You kind of can't make volunteers do anything and it often promotes "I have a fabulous idea!" followed by "meh, I can't really be bothered with the time and effort and testing to properly implement it, plus I have anger management issues about how underappreciated my free labor is and I think someone else should supply all that other stuff. I mean, I did my part already in coming up with a Brilliant Idea, you fuckers."
The current system, where some folks write scripts and update the wiki and what not, is a perfectly cromulent use of voluntary contributions rooted in inspiration and devotion. It works amazingly well when so many attempts to organize volunteer labor just suck so badly. I am actually quite impressed with how well it works. It makes me wonder if there is research or something on how this type of ... volunteer opportunity compares to more traditional ...um..patterns. (Cuz I am not quite finding the language I want to describe what I mean.)
posted by Michele in California at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I am glad this pony request has been unequivocally denied. Volunteer supported stuff is often really crappy. You kind of can't make volunteers do anything and it often promotes "I have a fabulous idea!" followed by "meh, I can't really be bothered with the time and effort and testing to properly implement it, plus I have anger management issues about how underappreciated my free labor is and I think someone else should supply all that other stuff. I mean, I did my part already in coming up with a Brilliant Idea, you fuckers."
The current system, where some folks write scripts and update the wiki and what not, is a perfectly cromulent use of voluntary contributions rooted in inspiration and devotion. It works amazingly well when so many attempts to organize volunteer labor just suck so badly. I am actually quite impressed with how well it works. It makes me wonder if there is research or something on how this type of ... volunteer opportunity compares to more traditional ...um..patterns. (Cuz I am not quite finding the language I want to describe what I mean.)
posted by Michele in California at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
mathowie: "A combo of old weird programming language"
When the cylons attack, MetaFilter, arngren, the Klingon Language Institute and Amanda Please will be the only sites left.
posted by zarq at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
When the cylons attack, MetaFilter, arngren, the Klingon Language Institute and Amanda Please will be the only sites left.
posted by zarq at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Metafilter has plenty of programs and scripts, but I'm sure it could always use some more ushers.
posted by oceanjesse at 1:32 PM on June 9, 2014
posted by oceanjesse at 1:32 PM on June 9, 2014
"A combo of old weird programming language"
Coming to a theatre near you. Starring Jeff Goldblum as pb.
posted by arcticseal at 2:06 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
Coming to a theatre near you. Starring Jeff Goldblum as pb.
posted by arcticseal at 2:06 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
I usually use corn starch or tapioca.
If it got crowdsourced to me, I'd use arrowroot.
posted by BrashTech at 2:14 PM on June 9, 2014
If it got crowdsourced to me, I'd use arrowroot.
posted by BrashTech at 2:14 PM on June 9, 2014
You know what would be fun? A MeFi design charette, where anyone can show up with their own crazy interesting weird ideas about what Metafilter could be. New site skin, advanced social features, MeFi app etc.
Charettes are great for 1) fun and 2) opening up space for discussion and ideas.
I don't necessarily think MeFi needs to change ... yet. But a day may come and it could be worthwhile to have some ideas swirling.
Partly I just want a reason to try rethinking Mefi's IA and site nav!
Anyway: given that there's a lot of folks who want to try to Improve Metafilter, a collective brainstorming sesh — with a clear understanding that no change is expected — could be fun and interesting.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Charettes are great for 1) fun and 2) opening up space for discussion and ideas.
I don't necessarily think MeFi needs to change ... yet. But a day may come and it could be worthwhile to have some ideas swirling.
Partly I just want a reason to try rethinking Mefi's IA and site nav!
Anyway: given that there's a lot of folks who want to try to Improve Metafilter, a collective brainstorming sesh — with a clear understanding that no change is expected — could be fun and interesting.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm a subscriber, Jim, not the owner or the manager.
posted by infini at 2:31 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by infini at 2:31 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Are we doing corn starch recipes in this thread? Anyone tried ugali yet?
posted by infini at 2:32 PM on June 9, 2014
posted by infini at 2:32 PM on June 9, 2014
wemayfreeze: "a collective brainstorming sesh — with a clear understanding that no change is expected — could be fun and interesting."
This strikes me as a way to make an awful lot of people unhappy all at once (when their ponies are denied) rather than the current method of just one at a time.
I also wonder if flooding pb with many pony requests simultaneously is a wise idea.
posted by zarq at 2:42 PM on June 9, 2014
This strikes me as a way to make an awful lot of people unhappy all at once (when their ponies are denied) rather than the current method of just one at a time.
I also wonder if flooding pb with many pony requests simultaneously is a wise idea.
posted by zarq at 2:42 PM on June 9, 2014
That's why I said explicitly no changes to be expected. Just a design exercise for the sake of it.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:55 PM on June 9, 2014
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:55 PM on June 9, 2014
charette
I was surprised to learn this isn't shorthand for "chat roulette".
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:01 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I was surprised to learn this isn't shorthand for "chat roulette".
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:01 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
But zarq's point kind of stands unless by "no changes expected" you mean "In fact, we won't even bother to let matt and co know what we came up with because we would not wish to burden them." Otherwise, matt and co do, in fact, get burdened with reviewing it all and mass pony denials do, in fact, ensue.
And I can't imagine anyone showing up for "This is just totally for shits and grins, we are not even going to bother to notify the mod staff. K? thx." Unless you want to post it to the web somewhere and passively hope they (the mods) randomly trip across it and, totally out of curiosity, review it and then only implement Cool Stuff Of Interest instead of going the mass pony denial route.
posted by Michele in California at 3:02 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
And I can't imagine anyone showing up for "This is just totally for shits and grins, we are not even going to bother to notify the mod staff. K? thx." Unless you want to post it to the web somewhere and passively hope they (the mods) randomly trip across it and, totally out of curiosity, review it and then only implement Cool Stuff Of Interest instead of going the mass pony denial route.
posted by Michele in California at 3:02 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
The kind of magic pb makes only requires wizardry.
The kind of magic required of the mods requires both wizardry and cat herding of many thousands of cats.
Cut them some slack.
posted by Michele in California at 5:10 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
The kind of magic required of the mods requires both wizardry and cat herding of many thousands of cats.
Cut them some slack.
posted by Michele in California at 5:10 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Starring Jeff Goldblum as pb.
Surprise! Hey pb, we've all decided to come over and help! Where do you keep the source files?
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:47 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Surprise! Hey pb, we've all decided to come over and help! Where do you keep the source files?
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:47 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Have I told you all lately how much affection I have for all you staff members? Because for real, you guys are the best.
posted by Hermione Granger at 6:05 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 6:05 PM on June 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
For realsies. You might say it's...
[sunglasses]
...our legacy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:04 PM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
[sunglasses]
...our legacy.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:04 PM on June 9, 2014 [5 favorites]
If you want to program something, how about making a Mefi CDN that runs on a P2P network and takes some of the server load? (No idea if this is practical)
posted by yoHighness at 7:15 PM on June 9, 2014
posted by yoHighness at 7:15 PM on June 9, 2014
I also wonder if flooding pb with many pony requests simultaneously is a wise idea.
I'm picturing this.
posted by maryr at 7:21 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm picturing this.
posted by maryr at 7:21 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
Really, if everyone had access to the code, we'd just end up causing trouble for matthowie.
posted by maryr at 7:24 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 7:24 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is Metafilter really written in ColdFusion?
Yes, apparently it's made us a bunch of wankers.
posted by Melismata at 7:47 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, apparently it's made us a bunch of wankers.
posted by Melismata at 7:47 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's important to realize that knowing, deciding, and imagining _what_ to build can take more --- thinking time + experience + working out + expertise + imagination + communication -- than actually building it. I say this as a LAMPerl coder. One professor I had actually suggested writing a manual/how-to document before coding... not sure that would really work, but it's illustrative of the underlying idea.
Coding is valuable, not saying it isn't, but it's sometimes tempting to focus on the more clearly solvable problem -- write code that does X -- than the more amorphous problem -- how does one allow people to express themselves and share ideas without the whole thing devolving into shouty, boring chaos.
That Metafilter has addressed the latter so well is exceedingly rare. Making a geek cohort (of one, or more than one, geek) think that way requires a particular kind of focus. It's really an impressive accomplishment.
posted by amtho at 8:34 PM on June 9, 2014
Coding is valuable, not saying it isn't, but it's sometimes tempting to focus on the more clearly solvable problem -- write code that does X -- than the more amorphous problem -- how does one allow people to express themselves and share ideas without the whole thing devolving into shouty, boring chaos.
That Metafilter has addressed the latter so well is exceedingly rare. Making a geek cohort (of one, or more than one, geek) think that way requires a particular kind of focus. It's really an impressive accomplishment.
posted by amtho at 8:34 PM on June 9, 2014
I would really love an Android app.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:53 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:53 PM on June 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I was wondering when the 'what do I get out of this' type questions would start. People the site's been crowd funded for years. if you need to feel like you need to help, just remember your content ( posts/comments) is what keeps the site lively.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:12 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:12 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Go Home Hippies!
posted by QueerAngel28 at 9:29 PM on June 9, 2014
posted by QueerAngel28 at 9:29 PM on June 9, 2014
if you need to feel like you need to help, just remember your content ( posts/comments) is what keeps the site lively.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a
Man your username must give pb the heebie jeebies.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:39 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a
Man your username must give pb the heebie jeebies.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:39 PM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Being able to submit a pull request to Metafilter would be kinda neat.
Pull request #1: Professional racing stripes
Pull request #2: Threading
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:17 PM on June 9, 2014
Pull request #1: Professional racing stripes
Pull request #2: Threading
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:17 PM on June 9, 2014
michaelh: Community access to the source code isn't allowed because someone always changes Favorites to Butts.
Haha yeah who would want that
I'm pretty sure that I demoed a greasemonkey script I wrote with "lol butts."
when I saw your comment it had "5 boops"
posted by Pronoiac at 11:09 PM on June 9, 2014
Haha yeah who would want that
I'm pretty sure that I demoed a greasemonkey script I wrote with "lol butts."
when I saw your comment it had "5 boops"
posted by Pronoiac at 11:09 PM on June 9, 2014
Chrome has just unilaterally decided to turn off my Deleted Posts extension and I can't turn it back on. If Metafilter's software developers would like to develop a MetaBrowser which doesn't do shit like this without asking me they'll have my fullest support.
I don't like Firefox.
posted by tavegyl at 12:56 AM on June 10, 2014
I don't like Firefox.
posted by tavegyl at 12:56 AM on June 10, 2014
I would rather MetaFilter didn't make any large alterations. The way it has developed - tiny, bunny, steps after some musing - has lessened the chances of some major OMG-ITS-UTTERLY-BROKEN-NOW event that is difficult to roll back from.
And as someone who likes his MacBook Pro and iPhone but hates giving more money to Apple (both devices are deep into their sixth year of use), I really appreciate that MetaFilter works fine on old browsers and old kit setups, with no "You need to update your browser" messages.
MetaFilter works, both literally and figuratively.
posted by Wordshore at 1:27 AM on June 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
And as someone who likes his MacBook Pro and iPhone but hates giving more money to Apple (both devices are deep into their sixth year of use), I really appreciate that MetaFilter works fine on old browsers and old kit setups, with no "You need to update your browser" messages.
MetaFilter works, both literally and figuratively.
posted by Wordshore at 1:27 AM on June 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
I was wondering when the 'what do I get out of this' type questions would start.
As pointed out above, that's not really what is going on here, but rather "I'm already helping out with cash. How else can I help out?"
Also, I think the 'what do I get out of this?' type questions started on day one of the actual fund drive. I think they are still going on. I know I had a few suggestions. So did others. Matt himself floated a few ideas.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:12 AM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
As pointed out above, that's not really what is going on here, but rather "I'm already helping out with cash. How else can I help out?"
Also, I think the 'what do I get out of this?' type questions started on day one of the actual fund drive. I think they are still going on. I know I had a few suggestions. So did others. Matt himself floated a few ideas.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:12 AM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Pull request #2: Threading
Not unless you can provide answer this question ("But I can never tell which ones are new since I last read them" on Ask.
Chronological or bust!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not unless you can provide answer this question ("But I can never tell which ones are new since I last read them" on Ask.
Chronological or bust!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I know ColdFusion. It's like... 50% of a good idea, and there's a bit of an uncomfortable truth that AngularJS is basically ColdFusion wrapped up in a non-broken version of JavaScript.
However, the "non-broken" part is pretty important. CFScript is pretty horrible.
Suffice it to say... It's one skill that I have deliberately left off of my resume.
posted by schmod at 7:10 AM on June 10, 2014
However, the "non-broken" part is pretty important. CFScript is pretty horrible.
Suffice it to say... It's one skill that I have deliberately left off of my resume.
posted by schmod at 7:10 AM on June 10, 2014
Oh dang, did I miss another "I hate and fear change" sound-off thread?
Also, I am so bummed that userscripts is eternally down so I can't install that lol butts script. What a letdown. If anyone still wants to put their software development skills to good use for the community, putting together a solid website to host all those MeFi Greasemonkey scripts would be a great place to start.
posted by dialetheia at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2014
Also, I am so bummed that userscripts is eternally down so I can't install that lol butts script. What a letdown. If anyone still wants to put their software development skills to good use for the community, putting together a solid website to host all those MeFi Greasemonkey scripts would be a great place to start.
posted by dialetheia at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2014
JRUN ERROR: LOAD BALANCING INCOMPATIBLE WITH SINGLE DEVELOPER SCHEMA.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:11 AM on June 10, 2014
posted by blue_beetle at 9:11 AM on June 10, 2014
years ago i developed the auto-deleting-quonsar-comment and though it has worked well, i don't think the admins are accepting user-donated functionality anymore. it's a different site nowadays.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:29 AM on June 10, 2014
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:29 AM on June 10, 2014
Be awesome people on the site and good ambassadors off it is really about all we can ask.
What a nice way of saying "Don't be a dick."
posted by JanetLand at 9:54 AM on June 10, 2014
What a nice way of saying "Don't be a dick."
posted by JanetLand at 9:54 AM on June 10, 2014
"Don't be a dick" is a much lower bar than being awesome and a good ambassador. I don't think "don't be a dick" is too much to ask, but most days I am incapable of being awesome.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I would really love an Android app.
This is a sincere question, with zero snark intended, but... what on earth would we need a MeFi Android app for? It already default to mobile view for easy viewing. What features would that add? I don't see it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:54 AM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is a sincere question, with zero snark intended, but... what on earth would we need a MeFi Android app for? It already default to mobile view for easy viewing. What features would that add? I don't see it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:54 AM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
It would integrate site activity with a smartphone or tablet's notification system and possibly calendar. From 2012:
posted by zarq at 11:19 AM on June 10, 2014
"I envisage an app that notifies me when I get a MeMail, or I'm added as a contact, when I'm mentioned in a thread, a new My Ask pops up or when my FPP is favorited.
It would stream my MeFi Music and Podcasts over the air and maybe even add meetups in my city to my diary. Advise me of new Job postings in my city. And of course it would let me browse and comment in all my favorite MeFi subsites."
posted by zarq at 11:19 AM on June 10, 2014
Don't forget the backrubs!
posted by blue_beetle at 12:04 PM on June 10, 2014
posted by blue_beetle at 12:04 PM on June 10, 2014
Oops, didn't mean to tease. Here's a mirror of the "rename favorites" script. There's a Metatalk thread about the userscripts outage.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:07 PM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Pronoiac at 12:07 PM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Some of those notifications might be cool, I guess. Maybe I'm just at a point where my own interest in what's happening with FanFare drowns out my interest in new ways to access existing content.
A few of those in the first graf you could probably fake with IFTTT.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:12 PM on June 10, 2014
A few of those in the first graf you could probably fake with IFTTT.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:12 PM on June 10, 2014
My PO Box is on my website. No need to say who you are when sending the cash.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:43 PM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by cjorgensen at 2:43 PM on June 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is a sincere question, with zero snark intended, but... what on earth would we need a MeFi Android app for?
Ability to customise the background? I don't know. Just looking to give somebody something to do.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:14 PM on June 10, 2014
Ability to customise the background? I don't know. Just looking to give somebody something to do.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:14 PM on June 10, 2014
Speaking of scripts, I just wrote a stylish user style for FanFare. It replaces the black text on a white background with white, gray and blue text on a black background with dark gray accents. You can find it here.
There's another darkish style that someone else wrote (that I haven't tried): here.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:30 PM on June 10, 2014
There's another darkish style that someone else wrote (that I haven't tried): here.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:30 PM on June 10, 2014
Buy pb a nice campstove instead. Or fund cloning efforts.
I read a piece entitled 'Why Perl Didn't Win' the other day that talked about the distinction between sustaining a long-running software project and building a new one from scratch, in terms of the original design philosophy, the structure of the codebase, the choice of languages and ecosystem and so on, and the way in which it's maintained over time.
My guess is that the MetaFilter codebase would look pretty strange to a majority of the web software developers who've acquired and developed their skills at different times with different platforms and languages and frameworks and design approaches -- even those familiar with ColdFusion. There are a lot of baked-in decisions that made sense at the time for pb and mathowie, and make sense now, but they might struggle to articulate those decisions if asked about them, unless you could trigger the right set of memories.
posted by holgate at 11:30 PM on June 10, 2014
I read a piece entitled 'Why Perl Didn't Win' the other day that talked about the distinction between sustaining a long-running software project and building a new one from scratch, in terms of the original design philosophy, the structure of the codebase, the choice of languages and ecosystem and so on, and the way in which it's maintained over time.
My guess is that the MetaFilter codebase would look pretty strange to a majority of the web software developers who've acquired and developed their skills at different times with different platforms and languages and frameworks and design approaches -- even those familiar with ColdFusion. There are a lot of baked-in decisions that made sense at the time for pb and mathowie, and make sense now, but they might struggle to articulate those decisions if asked about them, unless you could trigger the right set of memories.
posted by holgate at 11:30 PM on June 10, 2014
"because we paid money, ergo..."
I paid money, ergo MetaFilter lives on exactly as it has for the past 10+ years.
The End.
posted by mrbill at 9:31 AM on June 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I paid money, ergo MetaFilter lives on exactly as it has for the past 10+ years.
The End.
posted by mrbill at 9:31 AM on June 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I can read mefi at work, AND favourite things and we use IE 8.
This is the only site I can really participate/read.
(and I have the Professional White Background at work, of course... but Blue at home. <3)
posted by olya at 1:28 PM on June 12, 2014
This is the only site I can really participate/read.
(and I have the Professional White Background at work, of course... but Blue at home. <3)
posted by olya at 1:28 PM on June 12, 2014
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posted by ElliotH at 6:43 AM on June 9, 2014 [1 favorite]