Let's get rid of the Projects post limit as well August 5, 2022 8:10 AM Subscribe
We got rid of the Ask post limit half a year ago. It's been great. Now let's do Projects.
It's cool to see what people work on. There are very very few Projects posts. I want there to be more, but I personally often don't post small stuff because what if I suddenly do some bigger/cooler/more important thing later?
Let's just remove the limit, and if it becomes a problem (unlikely, imo) we can bring back a (hopefully less extreme) limit, or just deal with it on a case-by-case basis.
What do you think?
It's cool to see what people work on. There are very very few Projects posts. I want there to be more, but I personally often don't post small stuff because what if I suddenly do some bigger/cooler/more important thing later?
Let's just remove the limit, and if it becomes a problem (unlikely, imo) we can bring back a (hopefully less extreme) limit, or just deal with it on a case-by-case basis.
What do you think?
I'll confess that I never look at Projects and barely understand what it is supposed to be for... So I wonder if also some better publicity for it might be helpful?
posted by primethyme at 9:36 AM on August 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by primethyme at 9:36 AM on August 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
I support this idea.
A few months ago, I thought long and hard before posting a short story I wrote to Projects. Was it too short? Not projecty enough? Eventually, I decided to do it, and got some really positive feedback from people. I've been doing more writing recently, because the response I got here was so encouraging to me.
I would by perfectly happy to see projects turned into a much more frequent but lighter feed of things Mefites have produced. A whole book, sure. Or a multi-year portfolio of your art. But also a blog entry that is particularly thoughtful. Or a sweater you knit. Or a single painting you are proud of. Or a journal article you contributed to.
It will mean many fewer projects make it to the front page, but it will also mean we'll get to see more stuff that Mefites are doing, and I like that idea.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on August 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
A few months ago, I thought long and hard before posting a short story I wrote to Projects. Was it too short? Not projecty enough? Eventually, I decided to do it, and got some really positive feedback from people. I've been doing more writing recently, because the response I got here was so encouraging to me.
I would by perfectly happy to see projects turned into a much more frequent but lighter feed of things Mefites have produced. A whole book, sure. Or a multi-year portfolio of your art. But also a blog entry that is particularly thoughtful. Or a sweater you knit. Or a single painting you are proud of. Or a journal article you contributed to.
It will mean many fewer projects make it to the front page, but it will also mean we'll get to see more stuff that Mefites are doing, and I like that idea.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on August 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
I don't look at Projects as much as I used to, but it's hard for me to see the logic behind a limit. I guess the idea is to encourage albums instead of singles, so to speak, but like, there are a lot of genres where singles are more important than albums. Thinking a little more, I guess back when everyone had a blog in the 2000s, sharing each post as a project probably would have been overload, but nobody blogs anymore. If someone wants to toot their horn about a blog post in 2022, it's probably pretty worthwhile.
I guess if you really want to overthink it, you could probably make Projects more like FanFare where there are series and episodes, etc. But that's probably not worth the effort. Removing the post limit would be pretty easy and helpful.
100% agree on better publicity. Even I, as someone who knows about Projects and generally likes it, still forget to actually check it out regularly.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:33 AM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I guess if you really want to overthink it, you could probably make Projects more like FanFare where there are series and episodes, etc. But that's probably not worth the effort. Removing the post limit would be pretty easy and helpful.
100% agree on better publicity. Even I, as someone who knows about Projects and generally likes it, still forget to actually check it out regularly.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:33 AM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'll be curious to hear the long-timers chime in on this. I always assumed it was an offshoot of the "no self promotion" rule on the blue. Projects existed as an, "Well, okay, a LITTLE self promotion.. but only a little," nod to the burgeoning community. That's just my guess, tho!
If the limit is keeping people from posting cool stuff, I'm in favor of it being eliminated and seeing what happens. I wanna see what folks are doing!
posted by curious nu at 10:45 AM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
If the limit is keeping people from posting cool stuff, I'm in favor of it being eliminated and seeing what happens. I wanna see what folks are doing!
posted by curious nu at 10:45 AM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Would I like to see more of the interesting projects MeFites are bringing into the world? Why yes, I would! Bring me the sweater you made for your little niece, the funky piece of jewelry you made, the blog post you're particularly proud of. While I understand the no self-promotion rule, I also want to have the opportunity to see and express my appreciation for what community members have created! I'd like to see this become a more visible (and more relaxed) space for sharing the joy of making, and I support post limit removal/twice-a-week posting in Projects. It might inspire more people to contribute to the Mall as well. Give this pony a carrot!
posted by MonkeyToes at 10:53 AM on August 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 10:53 AM on August 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
It was definitely related to the no self-promotion rule. I think a lot of the underlying logic and functionality was the idea that a project submission was potentially a front page post. That you were throwing it up there for the community to see and if enough other people liked it, someone would post it to the front page. That's why the voting mechanic and post to front page mechanics exist. And a limit makes some sense in that context -- how often are you doing projects worthy of an FPP that you need to post about them more than once a month?
But with the limit in place and that logic in mind, I have always had the feeling that just posting a cool thing you made and want Mefites to see isn't enough -- it has to be "FPP worthy". I'd love to see that feeling go away and have Projects be just a feed of cool things people have made, with the bar being more "would you post this on your Insta account if you had one?" than "would you post this on the front page of Metafilter?"
posted by jacquilynne at 10:57 AM on August 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
But with the limit in place and that logic in mind, I have always had the feeling that just posting a cool thing you made and want Mefites to see isn't enough -- it has to be "FPP worthy". I'd love to see that feeling go away and have Projects be just a feed of cool things people have made, with the bar being more "would you post this on your Insta account if you had one?" than "would you post this on the front page of Metafilter?"
posted by jacquilynne at 10:57 AM on August 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
This sounds like a great idea, and may be more accessible than the offsite maker's group I tried to start last Oct/Nov. Meta 1, Meta 2
When I was sending monthly reminders, which admittedly only happened 3 or 4 times, I was sending emails and Memails to 30-40 members. Maybe 14 or 15 folks posted once, but only a handful posted more than once. I totally understand that many people were probably planning/hoping to make stuff, and sometimes it's hard to get to making stuff.
I have since canceled the paid Padlet account, but because some boards are free even without a paid account, folks are welcome to take a gander at stuff that was posted on the first board, and the December board.
posted by Glinn at 11:14 AM on August 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
When I was sending monthly reminders, which admittedly only happened 3 or 4 times, I was sending emails and Memails to 30-40 members. Maybe 14 or 15 folks posted once, but only a handful posted more than once. I totally understand that many people were probably planning/hoping to make stuff, and sometimes it's hard to get to making stuff.
I have since canceled the paid Padlet account, but because some boards are free even without a paid account, folks are welcome to take a gander at stuff that was posted on the first board, and the December board.
posted by Glinn at 11:14 AM on August 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I support this change. It would allow for interesting work-in-progress updates, too. I've suggested before that MeFi have a space for those.
posted by michaelh at 11:16 AM on August 5, 2022
posted by michaelh at 11:16 AM on August 5, 2022
I always forget about Projects. When I do check it, I usually find something interesting.
I personally love seeing things that people make, and would enjoy having Projects be more widely publicized as a spot where anyone can post any kind of long term or short term project—a craft, a recipe, writing, music, tech…anything, really.
I’ve never really understood the voting aspect, though.
Lots of people make things. I want the chance to see those things.
posted by bookmammal at 11:37 AM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I personally love seeing things that people make, and would enjoy having Projects be more widely publicized as a spot where anyone can post any kind of long term or short term project—a craft, a recipe, writing, music, tech…anything, really.
I’ve never really understood the voting aspect, though.
Lots of people make things. I want the chance to see those things.
posted by bookmammal at 11:37 AM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'll be curious to hear the long-timers chime in on this. I always assumed it was an offshoot of the "no self promotion" rule on the blue. Projects existed as an, "Well, okay, a LITTLE self promotion.. but only a little,"
Yep, I think it was a Matt-era thing where people would be like "OK I can't post about my own stuff to the front page but WHERE CAN I?" and it really does make sense to have a place where users can share things they create.
A few people are only-Projects people who don't use the rest of the site much but... that's fine! I like poking around Projects--cortex and I regularly do a little spin through there for the podcast--and seeing what other MeFites are up to. I don't see much of a downside to removing the limit. Hopefully loup can chime in and/or it can become a thing the Steering Committee can decide on. I've never really felt it was only for FPP-worthy stuff, but definitely for mostly-finished projects or big-update types of things.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:06 PM on August 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yep, I think it was a Matt-era thing where people would be like "OK I can't post about my own stuff to the front page but WHERE CAN I?" and it really does make sense to have a place where users can share things they create.
A few people are only-Projects people who don't use the rest of the site much but... that's fine! I like poking around Projects--cortex and I regularly do a little spin through there for the podcast--and seeing what other MeFites are up to. I don't see much of a downside to removing the limit. Hopefully loup can chime in and/or it can become a thing the Steering Committee can decide on. I've never really felt it was only for FPP-worthy stuff, but definitely for mostly-finished projects or big-update types of things.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:06 PM on August 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Another agree check mark, but should probably add a caveat that a single user should not "take over" projects.
posted by sammyo at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 12:10 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Someone posted four questions in a row on AskMe the other day about gift ideas for four children so I'm not sure doing away with the limit is 100% win there. (I worst-case-scenario'd my beloved AskMe feed and almost cried after working out what I was looking at!) Somehow I doubt that would happen with Projects though.
posted by headnsouth at 12:14 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 12:14 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'd like to see more Projects too, and support this pony request. Realised I haven't looked at it for a couple of weeks, off to do so now.
I have also twitched reflexively at consecutive Asks by the same person, but I think that's a me problem rather than a site problem. Not sure it would feel like that in any case with repeat Projects, as they feel more like a gift to the site rather than a request.
posted by paduasoy at 12:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have also twitched reflexively at consecutive Asks by the same person, but I think that's a me problem rather than a site problem. Not sure it would feel like that in any case with repeat Projects, as they feel more like a gift to the site rather than a request.
posted by paduasoy at 12:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
(A bonus pony for Projects: Please please make it consistent with every single other subsite such that posts have a title and clicking on the title takes you to the post/comment page, not to the site the post is linking to. Even after so many years I keep accidentally clicking through to the linked site, when what I'm actually trying to do is first open the post to read the full description and comments. From a usability and consistent design perspective, it's frustrating and I think it also reduces interaction inside the posts. I've noticed I actually end up avoiding Projects more often than not because I associate it with constantly winding up in the wrong place.)
posted by trig at 12:50 PM on August 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by trig at 12:50 PM on August 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
Came back to say, I wonder if we should replace Votes with Favourites in Projects. I remember being a bit dismayed when first looking at Projects as it wasn't clear what one was voting for or whether it had any effect.
I like the fact that the Steering Committee has a post over there about nominations, as on all the sub-sites - it is indeed a project.
I think I'd be happy with a very low bar for what a project is - a blog post, a crafted item, a plant grown - to build up traffic and a diversity of content in Projects.
posted by paduasoy at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I like the fact that the Steering Committee has a post over there about nominations, as on all the sub-sites - it is indeed a project.
I think I'd be happy with a very low bar for what a project is - a blog post, a crafted item, a plant grown - to build up traffic and a diversity of content in Projects.
posted by paduasoy at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I support adjusting the limit. Maybe instead of once a month we try once a week. See if that is a problem. I find Projects fascinating. The stuff MeFites are working on has always impressed me.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like projects but I think there is a certain level of unnecessary compartmentalization which means few people likely go there - see the low levels of votes, favourites and comments in relation to the size of the active user base overall.
Instead, how about "Self Link Sundays" on the blue where stuff like this would be welcome, and much more widely seen.
posted by Rumple at 12:59 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Instead, how about "Self Link Sundays" on the blue where stuff like this would be welcome, and much more widely seen.
posted by Rumple at 12:59 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
even if SELF LINK SUNDAYS was just a simple thread (as opposed to a bunch of discrete FPPs). Good idea either way.
posted by philip-random at 1:02 PM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 1:02 PM on August 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure I like Self-Link Sundays as much as I do expanding the spirit and frequency of Projects (or MakeFi, as I think of it). I do like the once-a-week limit. Is there any reason Projects can't be promoted with the occasional banner? Agreed that voting has been a little opaque.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:43 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:43 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
or MakeFi, as I think of it
I love this.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:46 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
I love this.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:46 PM on August 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
I frequent projects, have found some fun stuff, bought a few words, and really enjoy it. Fully support removing the limit! I wasn’t aware it was one post a month over there and I’m sad thinking about the things I’ve missed because someone didn’t want to use their one post for the month on it.
posted by one4themoment at 2:35 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by one4themoment at 2:35 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
(I also enjoy window shopping at the mefi mall and would love for that to be more of an updated as needed thing instead of just updated at holidays but that’s a separate post... which will probably happen next holiday)
posted by one4themoment at 2:38 PM on August 5, 2022
posted by one4themoment at 2:38 PM on August 5, 2022
The Mall is definitely available year round but I agree it would be nice if it were a thing that you could be more confident was updated between holidaytimes. Just one of those things that maybe getting more community involvement (along with switching out the banners, that sort of thing) would be helpful for.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:00 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:00 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread did motivate me to go ahead and put a post into the Projects queue. It's basically an update but in a new place with 20x more content, and I'd been holding off thinking well let me add just one more thing ... I guess I'd feel the same way about updates in the future--like, it should be pretty meaningful and/or the old post should be old enough to fall off the front page. But the reason I don't often go to Projects is it has too little content, so in general, I favor anything that encourages more of it.
posted by Wobbuffet at 3:29 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Wobbuffet at 3:29 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I took my 4 year old granddaughter to the popular downtown playground after picking up her from school this week. So she was in her school uniform, which was fine for the playground.
When we got there we, or rather she, immediately noticed that the kid's spray fountains were open, i.e. the place where kids could go running around in water.
She instantly asked if we could go in the fountains. I pointed out that she was in school clothes and shoes, so no, but we could come back another day.
Her eyebrows scrunched down over her eyes as she thought hard about this. Then she lifted up her shirt halfway and exclaimed "What if we go nekkie?!"
I quickly said no, that was not a thing we could or should ever do and quickly compromised by saying if she would take off her shoes, she could go run in the water.
The moral of this story is that if you must have limits, then let them be reasonable.
"MR. LOUP, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL and let the flowering of a 1,000 projects begin!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 PM on August 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
When we got there we, or rather she, immediately noticed that the kid's spray fountains were open, i.e. the place where kids could go running around in water.
She instantly asked if we could go in the fountains. I pointed out that she was in school clothes and shoes, so no, but we could come back another day.
Her eyebrows scrunched down over her eyes as she thought hard about this. Then she lifted up her shirt halfway and exclaimed "What if we go nekkie?!"
I quickly said no, that was not a thing we could or should ever do and quickly compromised by saying if she would take off her shoes, she could go run in the water.
The moral of this story is that if you must have limits, then let them be reasonable.
"MR. LOUP, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL and let the flowering of a 1,000 projects begin!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 PM on August 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
I'm always impressed by the work in Projects. I think Music (2003) predates Projects as a subsite. Music featured more collaborations from the outset -- maybe Music posts belong in Projects now? Unless the downloads/playlists/podcasts/other functions require that separation?
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:53 PM on August 5, 2022
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:53 PM on August 5, 2022
What if the limit were something like 25 per year, and if you used that up you could ask for more?
posted by amtho at 5:21 PM on August 5, 2022
posted by amtho at 5:21 PM on August 5, 2022
I'd like to see people self promote on MeFi, but a check box that says "I am involved with this site in some way" and get rid of Projects.
I am surprised to hear myself say this, but here we are.
posted by terrapin at 5:54 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am surprised to hear myself say this, but here we are.
posted by terrapin at 5:54 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree I think self-linking is no longer an issue and outdated concept. We should deal with edge cases (over self-promoters, etc.) as they happen. If anything a little sticker similar to the "staff" badge on the post that says project or something.
posted by geoff. at 7:32 PM on August 5, 2022
posted by geoff. at 7:32 PM on August 5, 2022
I think the main/blue being strictly anti-self-promotion is really important. That feels firmly in the "get your own blog" territory. I would read the blue a whoooole lot less if I had to try and figure out if everything was Pepsi Blue.
That also feels like a much, much bigger conversation and maybe deserves its own Meta (and something for the SC to tackle!).
posted by curious nu at 7:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
That also feels like a much, much bigger conversation and maybe deserves its own Meta (and something for the SC to tackle!).
posted by curious nu at 7:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
I also feel that the no self-linking is an important rule and a foundation of site culture. I think there has been some creeping increase in anxietyposting/overuse of Ask since the removal of limits on questions, and I think we’d see a similar overall change in FPPs if self-linking became possible.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:44 PM on August 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:44 PM on August 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
This week I made a t-shirt for a Mefite which has one of their comments printed on it. It's great, I love it, and am very pleased to have done it.
There's nowhere on the site that I can share this with y'all, except here, in MeTa thread. We should change that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
There's nowhere on the site that I can share this with y'all, except here, in MeTa thread. We should change that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
I vote yes for tshirtswithmefitescommentsprintedonthem.metafilter.com.
posted by primethyme at 8:27 PM on August 5, 2022
posted by primethyme at 8:27 PM on August 5, 2022
You can't post your t-shirt in Projects??
posted by mpark at 8:34 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mpark at 8:34 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Only one every 30 days.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 PM on August 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Instead, how about "Self Link Sundays" on the blue where stuff like this would be welcome, and much more widely seen.
Ugh, please let's not do this. Imgur (essentially the only other place I hang out every day) does this and it's infuriating when Upvote Everything day or Selfie day or whatever ill conceived community day rolls around and the site turns to shit for 2-3 days (because of the 24 hr nature of the planet and how things rise to prominence) because it completely swamps all the other content. The occasional Potatoe Days or other spontaneous events are fine and fun but I would dread up coming cyclical special days.
even if SELF LINK SUNDAYS was just a simple thread (as opposed to a bunch of discrete FPPs). Good idea either way.
This would be a decent compromise though really the irregular free threads and Meta-cocktails we have can already be used for sharing projects. I've certainly used them that way in the past.
I think the main/blue being strictly anti-self-promotion is really important.
I also believe this. In fact now that there are so many other outlets for for self promotion available I think it is even more important than it was previously. The justification that you can't really judge how worthy your own work is still applies. And while I know that a) Projects is poorly subscribed and b) not everything that gets posted there is done so because the creator thinks it would be front page worthy, the fact is that very few Projects are judged by other people to be worthy of the front page despite it being like the absolute easiest FPP to make.
It does sound like at least some people are being negatively impacted by the current limit though so a reduction in the time to say a week or 10 days might be in order. But unlike in AskMe where I have some sympathy that people felt the need to save AskkMes for emergencies what sort of Project needs to get posted on an emergency basis where it wouldn't be just as relevant a week later?
On a related note I wonder if some internal promotion might be in order. Maybe the free threads could occasionally be something like "Come talk about your favourite Project" or "What was the best AskMe of the last year". These kinds of topics would traditionally be the purview of Meta but the Free threads blur the line a little.
Also related, and this is probably GOML territory, while I understand the need for communication of the activities of the steering committee I hope that the cross posting across different sites of the same subject matter remains an extremely rare event.
posted by Mitheral at 9:03 PM on August 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Ugh, please let's not do this. Imgur (essentially the only other place I hang out every day) does this and it's infuriating when Upvote Everything day or Selfie day or whatever ill conceived community day rolls around and the site turns to shit for 2-3 days (because of the 24 hr nature of the planet and how things rise to prominence) because it completely swamps all the other content. The occasional Potatoe Days or other spontaneous events are fine and fun but I would dread up coming cyclical special days.
even if SELF LINK SUNDAYS was just a simple thread (as opposed to a bunch of discrete FPPs). Good idea either way.
This would be a decent compromise though really the irregular free threads and Meta-cocktails we have can already be used for sharing projects. I've certainly used them that way in the past.
I think the main/blue being strictly anti-self-promotion is really important.
I also believe this. In fact now that there are so many other outlets for for self promotion available I think it is even more important than it was previously. The justification that you can't really judge how worthy your own work is still applies. And while I know that a) Projects is poorly subscribed and b) not everything that gets posted there is done so because the creator thinks it would be front page worthy, the fact is that very few Projects are judged by other people to be worthy of the front page despite it being like the absolute easiest FPP to make.
It does sound like at least some people are being negatively impacted by the current limit though so a reduction in the time to say a week or 10 days might be in order. But unlike in AskMe where I have some sympathy that people felt the need to save AskkMes for emergencies what sort of Project needs to get posted on an emergency basis where it wouldn't be just as relevant a week later?
On a related note I wonder if some internal promotion might be in order. Maybe the free threads could occasionally be something like "Come talk about your favourite Project" or "What was the best AskMe of the last year". These kinds of topics would traditionally be the purview of Meta but the Free threads blur the line a little.
Also related, and this is probably GOML territory, while I understand the need for communication of the activities of the steering committee I hope that the cross posting across different sites of the same subject matter remains an extremely rare event.
posted by Mitheral at 9:03 PM on August 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm for more experimentation and questioning the rules and mores of the site. They were largely brought about under conditions that no longer exist anymore, and in a time where technical progress gives us better options at regulating them.
I don't know how many active users are on projects or music or mall but I bet it is probably less than a hundred between them all. There's some severe stratification here with no promotion of these subsites on the more popular sites.
The worst case scenario is that it doesn't work and we go back to how things were. History is littered with businesses and groups that resisted change and didn't question the old way of doing things. Ask any of the restaurants near me that didn't want to do delivery during Covid since it ruined the dine-in experience. You can't ask them, they're gone.
posted by geoff. at 9:12 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't know how many active users are on projects or music or mall but I bet it is probably less than a hundred between them all. There's some severe stratification here with no promotion of these subsites on the more popular sites.
The worst case scenario is that it doesn't work and we go back to how things were. History is littered with businesses and groups that resisted change and didn't question the old way of doing things. Ask any of the restaurants near me that didn't want to do delivery during Covid since it ruined the dine-in experience. You can't ask them, they're gone.
posted by geoff. at 9:12 PM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
even if SELF LINK SUNDAYS was just a simple thread (as opposed to a bunch of discrete FPPs).
I like this idea. I would read the shit out of a thread where people were posting a nice pic they took, maybe a pic of some art they did or a flower arrangement, whatever, or a blog post they made, or something they wrote, even a twitter thread they made, and I think I would feel like I know more people other than their username. Cortex could even post his "torture sponge" painting of the week. Maybe Kattallus drops a poem on us. I mean, I could post, "look at this broken rock I found", lol, or even, here's an article I just published.
A lot of stuff does not reach the threshold of a "project," nor does it readily drop into a conversational thread. Metafilter should not be an austere community of rigid precedents, but be willing to play around a little more. And if someone occasionally says, "hey can I buy a bar of your goat cheese fennel soap?", that's hardly the end of the world except, perhaps, for their spouse.
Speaking of the free threads, I wish they were demarcated in some way, or stickied, or stuck to the top of the sidebar. I know they are tagged but other ways of bumping them would be helpful.
Also I think someone suggested a while ago the idea of having an (OPTIONAL!!!) different starting page which threaded together all the subsites. So when I loaded this rainbow metafilter I'd see blue, green, grey, purple, whatever colour projects is (no offence), music ("the black?) "all interdigitated into a scrolling visual mosaic, a smorgasbord of virtual amuses bouches, a hues who of the community.
posted by Rumple at 10:56 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
I like this idea. I would read the shit out of a thread where people were posting a nice pic they took, maybe a pic of some art they did or a flower arrangement, whatever, or a blog post they made, or something they wrote, even a twitter thread they made, and I think I would feel like I know more people other than their username. Cortex could even post his "torture sponge" painting of the week. Maybe Kattallus drops a poem on us. I mean, I could post, "look at this broken rock I found", lol, or even, here's an article I just published.
A lot of stuff does not reach the threshold of a "project," nor does it readily drop into a conversational thread. Metafilter should not be an austere community of rigid precedents, but be willing to play around a little more. And if someone occasionally says, "hey can I buy a bar of your goat cheese fennel soap?", that's hardly the end of the world except, perhaps, for their spouse.
Speaking of the free threads, I wish they were demarcated in some way, or stickied, or stuck to the top of the sidebar. I know they are tagged but other ways of bumping them would be helpful.
Also I think someone suggested a while ago the idea of having an (OPTIONAL!!!) different starting page which threaded together all the subsites. So when I loaded this rainbow metafilter I'd see blue, green, grey, purple, whatever colour projects is (no offence), music ("the black?) "all interdigitated into a scrolling visual mosaic, a smorgasbord of virtual amuses bouches, a hues who of the community.
posted by Rumple at 10:56 PM on August 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Speaking of the free threads, I wish they were demarcated in some way, or stickied, or stuck to the top of the sidebar. I know they are tagged but other ways of bumping them would be helpful.
📬What if we decided on a particular emoji or set of emojis to put demarcate free threads?📬
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:57 AM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
📬What if we decided on a particular emoji or set of emojis to put demarcate free threads?📬
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:57 AM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
That's what we did to make Transition Team posts stand out a little more.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:58 AM on August 6, 2022
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:58 AM on August 6, 2022
I would support a weekly thread for linking to whatever cool thing you just made, whether it's a massive web project or a picture of a cool bird.
posted by Jeanne at 10:12 AM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Jeanne at 10:12 AM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Brandon - for me the issue is once they scroll off the main page they are dead to me, emojis or not. My sidebar idea of course doesn't account for the relative invisibility of the sidebar on mobile - though to be fair, scrolling is somehow easier on mobile. And I am not sure the community is ready for "stickied" threads, though I might be.
Further to my "rainbowfilter" idea it occurs to me this may be a perfect project for a volunteer coder since it would be assembly of pre-existing components (though I believe there is different structure on different subsites which may make it tricky / not worth frimble's time)
posted by Rumple at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2022
Further to my "rainbowfilter" idea it occurs to me this may be a perfect project for a volunteer coder since it would be assembly of pre-existing components (though I believe there is different structure on different subsites which may make it tricky / not worth frimble's time)
posted by Rumple at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2022
Absolutely no self-link days or threads on the blue, please. If it's worth posting, another member will promote it to the blue from Projects.
posted by michaelh at 11:58 AM on August 6, 2022
posted by michaelh at 11:58 AM on August 6, 2022
no self-link days or threads on the blue, please
Seconded. There's already a place to share the cool things MeFites make. I support changing and expanding how we collectively think about and promote Projects*, and upping the post limit there (once a week?). So many of us make interesting things! And would be willing to share them! I wouldn't mind a recurring banner reminding folks to post to and peruse Projects, but self-link days/threads feel awkward.
* I've been here a long time, and I still think of Projects as being primarily for web-based stuff, even though I guess it isn't. If I felt like it were open to a wider variety of made objects, I would visit and maybe even post more often. Because I really like having the opportunity to ooh and ahh over the wide variety of things that other people are bringing into the world.
posted by MonkeyToes at 12:37 PM on August 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Seconded. There's already a place to share the cool things MeFites make. I support changing and expanding how we collectively think about and promote Projects*, and upping the post limit there (once a week?). So many of us make interesting things! And would be willing to share them! I wouldn't mind a recurring banner reminding folks to post to and peruse Projects, but self-link days/threads feel awkward.
* I've been here a long time, and I still think of Projects as being primarily for web-based stuff, even though I guess it isn't. If I felt like it were open to a wider variety of made objects, I would visit and maybe even post more often. Because I really like having the opportunity to ooh and ahh over the wide variety of things that other people are bringing into the world.
posted by MonkeyToes at 12:37 PM on August 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
One could make the argument that if self-links were allowed but confined to one thread/week, then users could skip that thread if they weren't interested or if it offended them.
Self links are already more or less tolerated in comments in any thread anyway.
Projects, like music, is pretty much an obscure niche on this site. There is no "view all [subsites]" option here. Providing that option and/or collating some of these low traffic subsites would make this a more interesting place.
A lot of the time, Metafilter seems like a dinner party where everyone has their elbows tucked in so tight to their ribs they can't eat their dinner.
posted by Rumple at 1:11 PM on August 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Self links are already more or less tolerated in comments in any thread anyway.
Projects, like music, is pretty much an obscure niche on this site. There is no "view all [subsites]" option here. Providing that option and/or collating some of these low traffic subsites would make this a more interesting place.
A lot of the time, Metafilter seems like a dinner party where everyone has their elbows tucked in so tight to their ribs they can't eat their dinner.
posted by Rumple at 1:11 PM on August 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
A view-all-sites page would definitely be a cool feature.
posted by michaelh at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by michaelh at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
A view-all-sites page would definitely be a cool feature.
I feel like that's come up a few times in Metas over the years -- it's high on my wishlist for something for the new Steering Committee to work on.
posted by curious nu at 6:23 PM on August 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel like that's come up a few times in Metas over the years -- it's high on my wishlist for something for the new Steering Committee to work on.
posted by curious nu at 6:23 PM on August 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I love the idea of Projects and wish it had more impact and reach. Metafilter's strength is its creative and accomplished user base. Maybe there's some way to have a lighter-weight posting process, more of a casual blog and less of a Serious Announcement? To the original post here, dropping the limit would help.
I don't think worrying about commercial overexploitation is necessary. I've posted five things there over the years and gotten basically no engagement on any of them. Maybe that says something about my projects, but I also have the impression there's basically no one looking at the posts there. I think all the posts up on its front page now have less than 10 comments, and the most popular has 21 votes.
posted by Nelson at 8:30 AM on August 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think worrying about commercial overexploitation is necessary. I've posted five things there over the years and gotten basically no engagement on any of them. Maybe that says something about my projects, but I also have the impression there's basically no one looking at the posts there. I think all the posts up on its front page now have less than 10 comments, and the most popular has 21 votes.
posted by Nelson at 8:30 AM on August 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
another member will promote it to the blue from Projects.
I'd be curious about traffic on Projects. I'd like to think this is true, but my guess based on voting on Projects is that much of the community doesn't visit it often.
Which is part of the reason I made my statement above about allowing people to self-link, but with a check box. And an understanding that if abused there are consequences.
As others have stated we live in a different world than when the no self-linking rules were put in place. No one is getting rich on views, and they can get better results spamming FB and IG, etc than they will on Metafilter.
To me all the subs feel like a Discord or Slack with dozens of channels. Are they really necessary? I find myself mostly marking those sorts of Discords and Slacks as read because I just find it overwhelming.
posted by terrapin at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2022
I'd be curious about traffic on Projects. I'd like to think this is true, but my guess based on voting on Projects is that much of the community doesn't visit it often.
Which is part of the reason I made my statement above about allowing people to self-link, but with a check box. And an understanding that if abused there are consequences.
As others have stated we live in a different world than when the no self-linking rules were put in place. No one is getting rich on views, and they can get better results spamming FB and IG, etc than they will on Metafilter.
To me all the subs feel like a Discord or Slack with dozens of channels. Are they really necessary? I find myself mostly marking those sorts of Discords and Slacks as read because I just find it overwhelming.
posted by terrapin at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2022
I’d rather figure out how to make it easier for members to promote projects to the blue if there’s an issue there. It doesn’t take many Projects readers to keep up with it.
posted by michaelh at 7:46 PM on August 7, 2022
posted by michaelh at 7:46 PM on August 7, 2022
Someone posted four questions in a row on AskMe the other day about gift ideas for four children so I'm not sure doing away with the limit is 100% win there. (I worst-case-scenario'd my beloved AskMe feed and almost cried after working out what I was looking at!) Somehow I doubt that would happen with Projects though.
I noticed that at the time and was like 'oh no!', because it was outside the usual practice on AskMe, but then I thought, realistically, why was that an 'oh no'? Asking a question about giving a gift to one child is acceptable. So four questions asking the question about four people also seems acceptable. And is probably more useful for anyone trying to read along later, as they don't have to sort out the replies that are recommendations for a child similar to the one they are buying for from the ones that are for a different child on a list.
I don't think there is a worse case scenario where everyone asks 4 questions every day. Maybe around Christmas, we get twice as many distinct questions about gift giving than we get now, and maybe on occasion someone has 17 niblings and doesn't recognize that posting them all separately but at the same time is kind of overkill, but that seems to be about the worst that happens.
And is that a truly undesirable thing? There's a perception that asking question on AskMe is taking from the community while answering them is giving to it, and that's not 100% wrong, but I have come to believe that it is like 90% wrong, I think. Many people read AskMe because they like to to answer questions. There needs to be content there to keep them reading and answering. Like everything else, AskMe posting volume is down over the years. So having more people asking questions -- even potentially lots more questions -- is overall giving to the site, not taking from it.
Same with Projects, I think. There's a bit of a sense that posting a project is using the site for self-promotion, instead of gifting the site with things to look at. If we want people to read Projects, there needs to be posts there for them to read. So if someone makes a few posts in a row because they have some neat stuff to share with the community, doesn't the community come out ahead?
I can imagine a more fully featured Projects that has things like IMG tags turned on, and features similar to the Clubs feature on FanFare that would allow interest groups to form and share their work with each other and with the larger site in really interesting ways. That's probably a long way in the future if it is even practical, but to get there, we'd have to stop thinking of posting your work on MeFi as a form of self-promotion that we minimally tolerate.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:00 PM on August 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
I noticed that at the time and was like 'oh no!', because it was outside the usual practice on AskMe, but then I thought, realistically, why was that an 'oh no'? Asking a question about giving a gift to one child is acceptable. So four questions asking the question about four people also seems acceptable. And is probably more useful for anyone trying to read along later, as they don't have to sort out the replies that are recommendations for a child similar to the one they are buying for from the ones that are for a different child on a list.
I don't think there is a worse case scenario where everyone asks 4 questions every day. Maybe around Christmas, we get twice as many distinct questions about gift giving than we get now, and maybe on occasion someone has 17 niblings and doesn't recognize that posting them all separately but at the same time is kind of overkill, but that seems to be about the worst that happens.
And is that a truly undesirable thing? There's a perception that asking question on AskMe is taking from the community while answering them is giving to it, and that's not 100% wrong, but I have come to believe that it is like 90% wrong, I think. Many people read AskMe because they like to to answer questions. There needs to be content there to keep them reading and answering. Like everything else, AskMe posting volume is down over the years. So having more people asking questions -- even potentially lots more questions -- is overall giving to the site, not taking from it.
Same with Projects, I think. There's a bit of a sense that posting a project is using the site for self-promotion, instead of gifting the site with things to look at. If we want people to read Projects, there needs to be posts there for them to read. So if someone makes a few posts in a row because they have some neat stuff to share with the community, doesn't the community come out ahead?
I can imagine a more fully featured Projects that has things like IMG tags turned on, and features similar to the Clubs feature on FanFare that would allow interest groups to form and share their work with each other and with the larger site in really interesting ways. That's probably a long way in the future if it is even practical, but to get there, we'd have to stop thinking of posting your work on MeFi as a form of self-promotion that we minimally tolerate.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:00 PM on August 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
I would definitely support getting rid of the projects posting limit -- one per thirty days seems too restrictive.
Also, one feed for all subsites would be dope af....great idea!
posted by lazaruslong at 3:51 AM on August 9, 2022
Also, one feed for all subsites would be dope af....great idea!
posted by lazaruslong at 3:51 AM on August 9, 2022
I am in favour of having some limit for every section (including Projects and FanFare) because it makes an expectation explicit that is otherwise implicit, and is different for everyone.
I thought the four consecutive questions in Ask was a bit much, but I can see the arguments for it in this case (given above) and it was a one-off. But what if the same person posted another four the next day? And six the next? Then 10?
At some point a mod would say, "Could you not post so many?" To which the response is, "How many can I post then?" And the answer can only be, "Er, not too many!".
There is some expectation of what's too many, we're just reluctant to pin it down. I wouldn't want some of the blogs I (still) read putting every one of their posts, more than one a day, on Projects if they were mefites. A limit of one a week would seem plenty for, "Here's this great thing I made!"
I don't necessarily see a generous limit as a Nasty Restriction, so much as it's a guide to what's acceptable, useful for people who haven't been here long, or who don't pick up on norms.
posted by fabius at 8:00 AM on August 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
I thought the four consecutive questions in Ask was a bit much, but I can see the arguments for it in this case (given above) and it was a one-off. But what if the same person posted another four the next day? And six the next? Then 10?
At some point a mod would say, "Could you not post so many?" To which the response is, "How many can I post then?" And the answer can only be, "Er, not too many!".
There is some expectation of what's too many, we're just reluctant to pin it down. I wouldn't want some of the blogs I (still) read putting every one of their posts, more than one a day, on Projects if they were mefites. A limit of one a week would seem plenty for, "Here's this great thing I made!"
I don't necessarily see a generous limit as a Nasty Restriction, so much as it's a guide to what's acceptable, useful for people who haven't been here long, or who don't pick up on norms.
posted by fabius at 8:00 AM on August 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
In case it's interesting to folks here, I made a chart of the number of AskMe posts per day with the day the limit removal was announced annotated on it.
Here's the script, in case anyone else is interested in playing with it (probably only works with GNU coreutils — I wouldn't expect it to run on a OSX):
(you can get the file from the infodump)
posted by wesleyac at 2:55 PM on August 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
Here's the script, in case anyone else is interested in playing with it (probably only works with GNU coreutils — I wouldn't expect it to run on a OSX):
tail -n +3 postdata_askme.txt | cut -f3 | tr -s ' ' | cut -d ' ' -f 1-3 | date +'%Y-%m-%d' -f - | sort | uniq -c | sed 's/^\s*\([0-9]*\)\s/\1,/' | gnuplot -e "set datafile separator ','; set timefmt '%Y-%m-%d'; set xdata time; set arrow from '2022-02-23', graph 0 to '2022-02-23', graph 1 nohead lc rgb 'red'; set label 'Post limit removed' at '2022-03-28', graph 0.9; set terminal png size 2400,1200 enhanced; set output '/tmp/askme.png'; plot '< cat -' using 2:1 with points pointtype 7 pointsize 0.2 title 'AskMe posts per day'"
(you can get the file from the infodump)
posted by wesleyac at 2:55 PM on August 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by trig at 8:21 AM on August 5, 2022 [2 favorites]