March 14, 2003

12:30 PM

Posted by nofundy at 2:48 PM EST on March 14:

This so didn't need to be posted. Do we really need to hear yet another pundit's fascinating views on Iraq?

"So you think discussing Eminem would be a better use of time than considering alternate viewpoints on serious issues?"
posted by Stan Chin to etiquette/policy at 12:30 PM (176 comments total)

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YES!
posted by Stan Chin at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2003

Hear! Hear!
posted by riffola at 12:32 PM on March 14, 2003

*takes cover*
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:33 PM on March 14, 2003

Stan, why do you hate IraqFilter so much?
posted by filmgoerjuan at 12:34 PM on March 14, 2003

uhm. agreed.

i didn't know we were some kind of news forum now.

TOO MUCH FLUFF! LESS STORIES ABOUT KITTIES IN TREES AND MORE HARD NEWS! THAT'S WHAT'LL FIX THIS PLACE!

but hey, diff'rnt strokes.
posted by fishfucker at 12:34 PM on March 14, 2003

The really funny part is Nofundy calling someone out for not showing an interest in alternate viewpoints.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:36 PM on March 14, 2003

jeez, once you hit that post button you're committed -- even if you desparately try to close the browser window while the load meter is only a tiny bit to the right.

hope no offense was taken, folks-who-enjoy-serious-issues. i've been on a posting rampage. i will stop now.
posted by fishfucker at 12:39 PM on March 14, 2003

Iraqfilter = boring
Iraqfilterfilter (where we complain about Iraqfilter) = Boring

The problem with metafilter is also its greatest attribute: anyone can post anything. Sometimes patterns form, a few years ago it was the dreaded I/P threads, now its Iraq. After the Iraqi situation is resolved, I'm sure some other controversial topic will over-dominate the front page. Either ignore threads that irritate you, or post things that can distract the rest of us enough to stop arguing. (The weight watchers '74 thread was fucking brilliant.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:46 PM on March 14, 2003

Are we really going to discuss Newsfilter AGAIN, or can we just skip to the pointless banter and inane jokes?
posted by Shane at 12:46 PM on March 14, 2003

i vote for the inane jokes.
posted by scottymac at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2003

I second that vote.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:52 PM on March 14, 2003

So moved and seconded. All in favor? Say koala. Or, if you're not into the whole brevity thing, say "I love Stan Chin with all my heart and half of my GI tract."
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:00 PM on March 14, 2003

I've pretty much decided that the Newsies have won: MetaFilter is now a current events discussion site, with the occasional web/culture thread thrown in for spice, like a newspaper's lifestyle section.

The long awaited rating system may prove me wrong, but I don't hold out much hope.
posted by timeistight at 1:03 PM on March 14, 2003

A prostitute walks into a bar. She spots a koala bear sitting at the end of the bar. After a little small-talk and flirting, the koala bear goes home with her. They frolic all night long. The next morning, the koala gets up and wanders towards the door.

"HEY! Where are you going?" yells the prostitute. "I haven`t been paid!"

Realizing that he is a koala bear and might not understand, she reaches for a dictionary and looks up "prostitute".

She shows him the definition:

PROSTITUTE (pros`ti toot) n. A woman who performs services for money.

The koala bear looks at her and then grabs the dictionary. He shows her a definition:

KOALA BEAR (ko all e Bare) n. A furry marsupial. Eats bush and leaves.
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:13 PM on March 14, 2003

I like Anil's clean version better.
posted by machaus at 1:39 PM on March 14, 2003

DEAD KOALA
posted by eddydamascene at 1:48 PM on March 14, 2003

Okay, I admit it, I am koala-meme-knowledge challenged. What is with all the koala stuff, and why don't you people realize that its only taken a couple of days for it to get more annoying than pancakes and monkeys?
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:01 PM on March 14, 2003

An Aussie was marooned on a desert island. His only companions were a male dog and a female koala. The dog and koala hit it off, and for a year the Aussie could only sit and watch while the dog humped the koala senseless.

"Lucky bastard!" thought the Aussie, "I could do with a good shag myself."

One day a beautiful naked blonde was washed up on the beach.

"Hi. I'll do anything you want me to," she said to the Aussie.

"Great!!! At last, after all this time!!! Take the dog for a walk, love, while I shag this koala."
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2003

So you think discussing Eminem would be a better use of time than considering alternate viewpoints on serious issues?

Good discussion (Eminem or Iraq) does not make up for bad links -- that should be the core issue. Why frame it in terms of silly vs. serious? Why are most Iraq posts bad? Because with the volume of posts on the subject, there's very little to be linked that is original.
posted by eddydamascene at 2:18 PM on March 14, 2003

Two kangaroo shooters are way out the back of Bourke when their ute breaks down. They do the right thing and stay with it but no one comes along. So they decide to walk out with the temperature being 40 degrees Celsius plus.

After 2 days, they’re on their last drop of radiator water when they climb a rise and find, nailed to a tree, a sign saying MERCY, POPULATION 12. In the distance there's a collection of ramshackle tin huts. They arrive and identify one hut as a café. They enter.

A lady appears, very proper. "Yis", she says.

"Bring us a drink, luv. Make it long and quick."

"We only serve one thing here."

"What’s that?"

"Koala tea."

"Well, bring it luv, only make it quick!"

She brings it, and she is not kidding. Pathetic little paws grip the edge of the billy and little furry ears poke through the murky surface. Well, kangaroo shooters are pretty tough but they’re not this tough. They look at each other and beg the woman to "take it away please, and strain it."

"What?" she says, "The Koala Tea of Mercy is not strained."
posted by yhbc at 2:26 PM on March 14, 2003

say it slow "koala tea"
posted by Big_B at 2:42 PM on March 14, 2003

Why did the first Koala fall out of the tree?
It was dead.

Why did the second Koala fall out of the tree?
It was stapled to the first.

Why did the third Koala fall out of the tree?
It thought suicide was in.

Why did the fourth Koala fall out of the tree?
It had a grand piano tied to it's foot.

Why did the fifth Koala fall out of the tree?
It was hit by the piano stool.

Why is this thread going to die?
posted by MzB at 3:05 PM on March 14, 2003

Ah yes, no posting the random Op Ed. Color me chastised. For what it's worth, I wasn't really hoping to start a discussion about the war on Iraq at all. I don't have much to say about the Iraq stuff, as I hope my posting history attests. When I post my big anti-war rant, it'll be on my blog. Stay tuned! Regardless, I understand the reasons for deletion, and sorry for stealing your sunshine. I'll stick to gay stuff in the future. Go 'bout your business.
posted by grrarrgh00 at 3:10 PM on March 14, 2003

Stan reading your shit post, not this, I have to say: Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YES!We want more..;p
posted by thomcatspike at 3:21 PM on March 14, 2003

Metafilter: Stick to gay stuff in the future.
posted by turaho at 3:21 PM on March 14, 2003

now that's a tagline i can get behind.
posted by fishfucker at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2003

I thought you only had sex with fish, fishfucker
posted by matteo at 5:01 PM on March 14, 2003

can we just skip to the pointless banter and inane jokes?

You know what? The hell with you and your 'pointless banter'. We're knee deep in piss in here already, and you need to encourage it? Like there's not enough self-aggrandizing, lame attempts at humour clogging up every single goddamn Metatalk thread-end already with sophomoronic chortling? I realize there's no fighting against this, and I should relax and Learn to Love the Inanity, but I'm finding it difficult. Very freakin' difficult.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:05 PM on March 14, 2003

Can I get an Amen! Well said stavros.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2003

what stavros said is why I rarely read MetaTalk posts that have more than 5-10 comments.

Seriously. I stopped months ago, when everything descending into pointless chatter at 20 comments (like this one did).
posted by mathowie at 5:20 PM on March 14, 2003

I rarely read MetaTalk posts that have more than 5-10 comments

If you've got a problem with it, why don't you just find someone with the power to do something about it, and... oh. Never mind!
posted by jonson at 5:30 PM on March 14, 2003

QED.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:36 PM on March 14, 2003

Wulfgar!:

What is with all the koala stuff, and why don't you people realize that its only taken a couple of days for it to get more annoying than pancakes and monkeys?

The annoying in joke is a common message board train wreck:

We're so clever! We're so funny! We have in jokes casual readers don't get! HAHAHAHA!

Guess why I only read Metafilter once a week instead of daily anymore. . .
posted by mark13 at 5:55 PM on March 14, 2003

can we just skip to the pointless banter and inane jokes?

You know what? The hell with you and your 'pointless banter'.

What's the difference, really? Yet another "Newsfilter!" MeTa thread that says the same things all the other "Newsfilter!" MeTa threads say, THEN descends into banter and jokes, or a MeTa thread that goes straight to the jokes? They're both about as productive. By cutting out the Newsfilter discussion the usual chase-yer-tail-inna-circle bullshit was cut in half, anyway.

Fuck, don't yell at me, stavros. This cycle existed before I ever started posting here. The hell with you and your "the hell with you," eh? Like you never make a stupid joke...
posted by Shane at 6:12 PM on March 14, 2003

well we ask about the newsfilter thing and nothing seems to happen, its fairly obvious who's continually posting these type of threads and nothing gets done, so what is left for us but to make jokes ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:19 PM on March 14, 2003

Forget it, shane. This is where we use our serious voice, and we don't try to make a point through humor, or lighten things up in any way.

Tut-tutting, of course, is still allowed, as is looking down your nose at your lessers - but only when you are above fucking reproach. After all, it's not like that kind of piling on exacerbates any stress, or adds to the growing negative signal to noise ratio.
posted by yhbc at 6:21 PM on March 14, 2003

it all went downhill after the second user..
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:25 PM on March 14, 2003

Guess why I only read Metafilter once a week instead of daily anymore. . .

I'd been noticing how rarely you were reading Mefi, and I was really wondering why. Mystery solved! Man, I wish there were some economic system whereby I received a penny every time I read something to the effect of "people like this/comments like that/etc, etc are why I never post here anymore, or don't come here as often, or whatever". I'd buy Stan Chin and have him write my comments for me.

Seriously, try not to be so self important. It's no more "your" place then it is anyone else's, and while complaining remains your only outlet, it's not a highly productive one, as no tears are being shed on account of the diminished number of hours user X spends reading the site. In other words, take it for what it is, if you want a higher level of discourse, contribute such, that remains the extent of your abilities here, unless your name is Matt Haughey, a point I was trying to make above...
posted by jonson at 7:01 PM on March 14, 2003

Shane : if you don't see what's wrong with encouraging people to chatter inanely, you're pissing on the site, and everyone who, even if they're perfectly happy to have a bit of banter happening, feels that Every Single Fucking thread is a bit much. If 'the cycle existed before [you] ever started posting here', is that a good reason to perpetuate it? How fucking anti-communitarian is that? 'Well, it's on the downhill slope already, I'll just give it another push.' Sure, I make jokes too - it's a Good Thing, and a natural thing. 'The hell with' me is fine, Shane, but at least I'm making an effort, which as far as I can see is more than you're willing to do. I expected, even though Matt spoke up in agreement, more or less, that I'd be shouted down - it's the normal pattern when someone actually brings up dissatisfaction with the jerk-off tenor that has dominated Metatalk (as Matt said) for many months now.

yhbc : 'Forget it.' No, don't forget it. Take it seriously, for just a moment. If you wish to consider yourself my 'lesser,' you're welcome to do so. I see little that would incline me to disagree with you. But I'm not sure on what basis you're creating a spectrum of 'betters' and 'lessers' - if it's user numbers, I suggest you grow up a bit.

After all, it's not like that kind of piling on exacerbates any stress, or adds to the growing negative signal to noise ratio.

You want stress exacerbation? Go outside, take a walk. Suggesting that airing concerns about pointless noise adds to the pointless noise pretty much makes any attempt whatsoever to improve the quality of our collective experience here pointless, doesn't it? Nice end run. There's a time to wear your 'Look at me, I'm a wacky funster!' hat, yhbc, and a time to actually behave like an adult. If you have trouble understanding the difference, well, there's not a hell of a lot I can say to you, is there?

How clear does it have to be to you people, when the owner of the site repeatedly mentions that something is detrimental to the community? How selfish are you?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:03 PM on March 14, 2003

Look, Shane, my intention was not to attack you specifically. You were just the target in my sights at the moment. Although I know it's pointless, I'm just on one of my periodic 'fuck this place is becoming more sophomoric by the day' tears, and it makes me sad and angry that people just don't care how stupid it gets.

Stupid is fun, as a holiday. But living hip-deep in stupid gets real old, real fast. And the dry-cleaning bills are astronomical.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:07 PM on March 14, 2003

"Seriously, try not to be so self important."

There's a big difference between being self important and pointing out the your site has pissed on your expectations.

"It's no more "your" place then it is anyone else's"

Ummm....... No. Its his. We play here. If he wants to give us his opinion about something like this, it counts more than anyone else's. If you don't think so then you need to not be so self important. You are a row in a database table here. Matt is root.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:19 PM on March 14, 2003

(I think jonson was talking to mark13, there, y6y6y6, not mathowie. Not that I agree with jonson's sentiments, which amount to 'if you don't like it, shut up and piss off', but just for clarity's sake...)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:25 PM on March 14, 2003

"But living hip-deep in stupid gets real old, real fast."

Fortunately we're not even close to that. As I've said before - There was just as much stupid back in 2000. MetaFilter isn't what Matt thought it would be. I've heard him talk about it. He didn't seem sad, he seemed amazed.

But I hope he has better things to do than read it all.

"I think jonson was talking to mark13, there"

What are you saying? I shouldn't post drunk?
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:28 PM on March 14, 2003

On the contrary, I am a great proponent of PUI (posting under the influence). Sadly, part of my crankiness today can probably be traced back to my being under the influence last night (it being Saturday morning in Korea at the moment), and a little under the weather today.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:33 PM on March 14, 2003

I rarely read MetaTalk posts that have more than 5-10 comments.

oh fuck. i thought matt was on holiday at some conference. is this normal now?

There was just as much stupid back in 2000.

it's been noticeably worse the last week or two. i was assuming matt was on holiday (as i've just said...)
posted by andrew cooke at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2003

part of my crankiness today can probably be traced back to my being under the influence last night

No excuse. You (in effect) called me a fuckwit wacky funster, and I will make sure to remind you of it at the most opportune time.

I will stand by my history, however, of being (or trying to be) funny when appropriate, and of being serious (and, hopefully, informative and interesting) when that is appropriate. I do know the difference, stav, and I'd thank you to show me the courtesy of assuming I do, and that I know what I am doing when I do it. That should prevent honest differences of opinion of what is "appropriate" from becoming curse-laden shrieking contests, which are never helpful and seldom pretty.
posted by yhbc at 7:40 PM on March 14, 2003

Not making excuses, yhbc, far from it. I stand by what I've said.

I do know the difference, stav, and I'd thank you to show me the courtesy of assuming I do

If that's the case, what exactly were you trying to say here?

I don't think you're a fuckwit, and there's nothing wrong with being a wacky funster once in a while, but it seemed pretty clear in the post I linked to that you were saying 'Oh, never mind stav, he just thinks he's all important and shit, and thinks he's better than you. We oughta just let it all hang out, and ignore him, and carry on, and he'll go away.'

If we're descending to the level of making empty threats, I will also make sure to remind you of that at the most opportune time as well.

Feel free to correct my interpretation if it's incorrect in any of the particulars.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:51 PM on March 14, 2003

Not that I agree with jonson's sentiments, which amount to 'if you don't like it, shut up and piss off'

But they DON'T, that's not what I'm trying to say at all! My thesis re: people unhappy with the site is:

1) Contribute more of what you want
2) Stop increasing the amount of "noise" with complaints
3) Please please please please please don't threaten to leave or tell us how rarely you come here any more or whatever else. There's only one person, honestly, whose failure to be a part of the site would be a catastrophy, and that person is Matt.

Certainly there's a ton of things I don't like about the site; at times I try and discuss with people I've had disagreements with in email, but by now even someone as dimwitted as myself has thrown in the towel on actually changing to the site into jonsonfilter(tm). It's a community, we have to allow everyone their input, even when we don't like the kind of input they're providing, like if cause they're drunk when they post and they seem to have a personal grudge against you and they're generally mean spirited. Not that I'm mentioning anyone in particular.
posted by jonson at 8:11 PM on March 14, 2003

Well, I agree with you on (1), certainly, jonson, and (3) too.

But (2), now.... see this, as I've always understood it, is what MetaTalk is for. Not for whinging and pissing and moaning and complaining per se, but for attempting to have discussions about how the site is running, what's good, what's bad, and what's fugly. Matt for the most parts leaves the participants in the community to set their own standards, and guides them with the lightest of touches, and Metatalk is where that's meant to happen

'Complaints' is a heavy word, but if they are contructive in intent, I think they should be aired.

Somehow over the past year or two, the word MetaTalk, for a number of reasons, has come to mean 'a place at Metafilter to just engage in random chat.' For my part, I've always understood it to mean literally what it says : talk about the talk. A place to talk about the site, the community, and things specific to it, as it says at the top of the page, and not just a place to engage in idle banter.

If Metatalk is not about (constructive) complaints (and suggestions, and bug reports and so on), then there's no point to its existence, really. Kinda like nipples on men.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:21 PM on March 14, 2003

Silliness seems to be the cardinal sin around here. If it were up to me, I'd take a hundred koala-polluted threads over one earnest political discussion like this. But, hey, it's mathowie's site and I think he disagrees with me.
posted by timeistight at 8:24 PM on March 14, 2003

That thread was a stuttering waterheaded abortion, timeistight. Bad example.

Silliness is not a sin. Perpetual silliness is annoying, is what I'm trying to say. Again. The wonderchicken perpetually repeating himself is no doubt annoying as well.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:30 PM on March 14, 2003

*ambles in, looks around, scratches head, skips off in glee*
posted by y2karl at 8:36 PM on March 14, 2003

we now return to our regularly scheduled koalaty programming.
posted by quonsar at 8:51 PM on March 14, 2003

posted by y2karl at 10:53 PM on March 14, 2003

coming to metatalk and reading the one-liner trading is probably 50% of the reason I even come to metafilter. The posts are nice too, but with all the annoying Iraq shit, the one-liners are slowly taking priority.
posted by angry modem at 10:55 PM on March 14, 2003

I agree with stavros and mathowie. There's too much of it. It was funny when it used to pop up from time to time interspersed with serious discussion, but we're long past that point now. I'm in two minds about whether to even post this comment agreeing with the site owner for fucks sake, because someone is inevitably going to have a pop at me for it, and try to make me look like a party pooper. And no, that doesn't vibrate either.
posted by walrus at 11:08 PM on March 14, 2003

You're not a party pooper if the party is poop.
posted by hama7 at 1:34 AM on March 15, 2003

My Grandpa gave me a penny, and it was a treasure.
My Uncle gave me a bucketful of pennies, and it was hard to carry.

or

One raindrop is a delight.
Many raindrops make a puddle.

(Feel free to contribute, but you must first achieve at least .08% on the breathalyzer.)
posted by Opus Dark at 4:18 AM on March 15, 2003

*kicks down door and throws dinner against the living room wall, urinates on couch, falls asleep*
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:59 AM on March 15, 2003

"and try to make me look like a party pooper."

I think we've already established over the last three years that most users agree with you. I certainly do. Sort of. But users here go to all extremes, so no matter what you say someone will have a pop at you for it. Still, there is value in saying it.

The problem, IMHO is that you have users like this, who contribute mostly noise, and prefer dick jokes to serious issues. I personally think MetaFilter would be better off without Stan Chin, but at the same I find myself laughing hysterically at some of his posts.

Does he have any motivation to post less noise? Hell no. People love him. People hold him up as one of the best things about the place. That's the reason for this thread - He's calling for more noise and less serious issues. Why? Because people love it when he does that.

What I'm saying is that there is a strong "noise" contingent here. Just as there is a strong signal contingent.

But then that has always been true.

"It was funny when it used to pop up from time to time interspersed with serious discussion, but we're long past that point now."

We've always been past that point. I tell you what, go find me a month where we didn't. Have you looked? I have. It doesn't exist.

I'm not meaning to take a pop at you because I agree there's too much of it. But there always has been. The best we can do is stand up and be counted for the MetaFilter we want.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:33 AM on March 15, 2003

Well, it's not like this place is woefully undersupplied with smarty pants or that these aren't troubling times for us all.

For me, the testosterone factor is more annoying than any japery:
Mars Metafilter Needs Women!

More girls, less self importance--that's the ticket.
posted by y2karl at 7:37 AM on March 15, 2003

Agreed.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:03 AM on March 15, 2003

Metafilter Needs Women!

Yes! But where is the motivation and encouragement? I'm slowly becoming aware that almost every female user on Mefi will tell you it's a "boyzone". I didn't even know just how much they feel this way until recently.

*Realizes he made a serious comment, then runs out the door struggling with the temptation to make a joke as usual now. Imagines HumorFilter and Mefi without jokes and is horrified and nauseous*
posted by Shane at 9:23 AM on March 15, 2003

*kicks down door and throws dinner against the living room wall, urinates on couch, falls asleep*
And, Thanks, sarge, that was an LOL for me
posted by Shane at 9:25 AM on March 15, 2003

The problem with all these signal vs. noise discussions is that everyone's ideas of what is signal and what is noise are different.
posted by timeistight at 9:26 AM on March 15, 2003

I expected this to be a thread about how bizarre and creepy Fundy is. How would you summarize it now?
posted by thirteen at 10:48 AM on March 15, 2003

I personally think MetaFilter would be better off without Stan Chin.

Thank <insert deity here> you don't run this place. I know it's difficult for you to see over your own inane chatter (this thread being a prime example), but Stan does contribute, he just has a different way of contributing and a way that you seem to not feel is correct.

What's worse, Stan, who spends his time making comments related to the topic in his own absurd fashion (in the vein of ColdChef, Kafkaesque and many others who have done similarly before him) or you, who spends way too much time in MetaTalk deriding people for not practicing your methods of expression (which seems to be really one mode of expression: bitching about everyone else)?

I understand the complaints in this thread about inane chatter. I've had to curb my own habits in order to participate on this site. Matt reinforcing this point is signal. Stavros, whose comments range from insightful to just plain out there, complaining about the incessant chatter in this forum is signal, a mixed signal coming from him, but still signal.

Coming from you, y6, whose sole participation seems to be attempts to remake every poster in your image, it's just noise.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:53 AM on March 15, 2003

I respect you and I find your comments typically get right to the heart of the matter. But in this case I just have to disagree.

> I do think Metafilter is getting hurt here.

I think not. Let me refer you to the "about" page:

"This website exists to break down the barriers between people, to extend a weblog beyond just one person, and to foster discussion among its members."

It doesn't say, "A structured discussion of important issues with no irrelevant or off-topic postings." I will agree that excessive tom foolery (sp?) by a small group of members would be able to lower the value of this site. But please! It's just a straw, and the camel will be fine.

Maybe you want MetaFilter to be limited to discussions of the current topic. Maybe Matt should institute some sort of moderation. Or maybe you think we should just behave and "self moderate."

Maybe, but I don't see the need.

1) This stuff has been going on since I first found the site. It contributes to the content. It gives the site personality.

2) Up to this point no one has mentioned Portman or grits. This isn't mindless or malicious posts. It's members of the community having a bit of fun. Those same people spend a lot of time making relevant comments. Haven't these trouble makers also posted comments that contribute and stimulate?

3) This stuff didn't really start until well after the 40 post mark. If someone actually reads that far, I think they're a) hooked, and b) in need of some comic relief.

4) I don't have a fourth reason.

5) "Collectively we seem to be making a lot of noise." This thread is a small fraction of the content here. I think we're making a small amount of noise. As a general rule, topics here get a good amount of intelligent discussion from both sides.

If your point is, "Ha ha. Very funny guys. Just don't let it get out of hand." I guess I can agree with that.

If your point is, "You people are ruining Metafilter. Please for the love of God stop now!" I think you are over reacting.

I suspect your point lies somewhere in the middle, but maybe I'm missing it. Maybe you should explain how MetaFilter is being hurt. I just don't see that.
posted by Stan Chin at 11:07 AM on March 15, 2003

"Coming from you, y6, it's just noise."

Probably fair.

And Stan - Touche. Good hit. But that doesn't make it right!!!
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:17 AM on March 15, 2003

I personally think this place would be a boring travesty without diverse people like Stan Chin and Foldy and hama7 and sgtserenity and quonsar.

I personally think that Stavros should put a [/sermon] when he's completely done with his comments on a MeTa subject, so we can all get up out of the pews, stretch, and go home : ) Or maybe just make a point without a personal attack like "to hell with you."

I personally don't know why I'm bothering to write this. That's how little Meta-enthusiasm I have right now. Who really cares, especially on a beautiful Saturday?
posted by Shane at 11:37 AM on March 15, 2003

i agree with Shane. it's people like Stan, Foldy, quansar, Stav, madamjujujive, hama7 (yadda and so forth, and the ones who have long past) that make this place what it is: a diverse and intelligent group of people who contribute their own unique personalities which IMO sets mefi apart from the rest of the pack.

What i find so damn funny about meta is that almost every goddamn discussion (depending upon the topic of the post) eventually degenerates into a debate on whether we're too uptight or too casual. either way, we end up looking like fools.
posted by poopy at 12:14 PM on March 15, 2003

not that there's anything wrong with that
posted by poopy at 12:35 PM on March 15, 2003

Who really cares, especially on a beautiful Saturday?

This is exactly the sort of egocentric, myopic, flippant remark that is ruining MetaWorld.

To wit:

It may or may not be Saturday. At least try to be cosmopolitan.

Define 'beautiful'. And certainly be gracious enough to acknowledge that no matter what definition you devise, someone somewhere is reading MetaRhetoric under decidedly unbeautiful conditions. Should they, therefore, be charged with a greater obligation to 'care'? You have slyly shifted the burden of caring onto a group of people who are already, by your own standards, being unfairly oppressed by an unbeautiful Saturday; could you be any more selfish?

So, you have arbitrarily placed the terrible responsibility for caring onto an already persecuted group - but you don't stop there. No, not you - you demand further that they identify themselves. "Who really cares," you disdainfully ask. Have you even considered the possibility that it may be dangerous - even inconvenient - for these people to reveal themselves? Or are you so busy trying to be clever that you choose to ignore the possible human consequences of your careless rhetoric?

But enough - I really can't continue with this. My patience is exhausted. This crass world is foreign to me. And harsh.

The only reason I still come here is to validate my decision not to come here.

This is my last post.

Until my next post.
posted by Opus Dark at 1:28 PM on March 15, 2003

y6^3, Stan's comment above makes as much sense as this one did. Let's not forget today's "old guard" was yesterday's "newbie". If we'd listened to the old guard then and not let the newbies then get used to the site and add their voice to the collective voice, MeFi would've been stunted and died a long time back.
posted by riffola at 1:31 PM on March 15, 2003

riffola - The reason I think MetaFilter would be better off without Stan is that he is very good at noise. As in actually, sincerely good. Same with quansar and others. It's entertaining and I frequently enjoy it.

But most of the time it's stupid. Fark is also goos at this and we aren't Fark. Yes?

And worst of all it encourages others who totally suck at what quansar and Stan are good at. If we only had the Good Noise™ I wouldn't have any problem with that. But in a community where we are allowed act out however we like, users such as these encourage poop rather than quality.

As I said already in this thread, I think the collective voice is, on the whole, robust and wonderful. Still, I do think we need to speak up rather than shrug and silently scowl.

And can we kill the idea that I'm old guard? I'm sure I'm more accurately an old thorn.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:49 PM on March 15, 2003

"good" - good at this. Not goos.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:53 PM on March 15, 2003

You have slyly shifted the burden of caring onto a group of people who are already, by your own standards, being unfairly oppressed by an unbeautiful Saturday;
Shite, he's on to me...
posted by Shane at 2:01 PM on March 15, 2003

thank you Opus, you made my day. i just hope this isn't the end of the world as we know it.
posted by poopy at 2:01 PM on March 15, 2003

you know, as penance for contributing to this runaway train of sophmorism, i'm going to try to post at least one link in every comment i make. i remember when i first saw mefi, it seemed like every single thread was full of people not talking, but linking, and it was something i really enjoyed --often the best links were in the threads, not the posts -- and a practice that seems to be on the decline. carol anne (i think), for example, was a notable linker who, sadly, seems to have disappeared.

anyhow: blenheim ginger ale

(uh, i'll try to keep future links more relevant).
posted by fishfucker at 2:24 PM on March 15, 2003

Metafilter Needs Women!

It does, but so do you people who spend your weekend nights arguing whether dumb comments and private jokes are good or not.
posted by 111 at 4:29 PM on March 15, 2003

so do you people who spend your weekend nights arguing whether dumb comments and private jokes are good or not.

BINGO!

I win the MeFi Cliche Bingo game!

Where do I collect my prize?
posted by Space Coyote at 5:15 PM on March 15, 2003

It does, but so do you people who spend your weekend nights arguing whether dumb comments and private jokes are good or not.

*Laughing long and hard at your sexist misfire, 111*

My wife found that stupidly humorous too. You realize the irony of your comment, posted on the weekend eve, don't you? Or not.

111, quit trying to pick a fight, please. You just end up looking...well...ass.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:18 PM on March 15, 2003

I'm still trying to figure out what this initial post is even about. It seems like it's just an excuse to start a jokefest, unless I'm missing something (?)

Hey, look at this. A girl a big furry suit pretends to be an animal escaping from the zoo, so that zoo security employees can practice capture drills. Funny pictures, Engrish, a butterfly, a cute girl. You guys said you wanted more girls.
posted by iconomy at 5:45 PM on March 15, 2003

You realize the irony of your comment, posted on the weekend eve, don't you?

I would, but unavoidable circumstances imposed by the world's several timezones prevent me from doing so.

No sexism at all, btw-- if I'm not mistaken, Schopenhauer of all people has said that the woman civilizes the man, and I do believe that works both on communities at large as well as on individuals. It's simply the honest truth.
posted by 111 at 5:46 PM on March 15, 2003

I personally think that Stavros should [...] make a point without a personal attack like "to hell with you."

You should have seen it before I edited out the unpleasantness.

I'm chagrined that y6 seems to be about the only person that isn't running around going wooop wooop wooop in panic, chicken-littling about something I didn't even say, but he is also saying someone like Stan isn't a worthy MeFite.

I love Stan. He's my little chickadee. I want to cuddle him and feed him sweet syrups and cakes. He is a genuinely funny fucker, most of the time, and there aren't really many of those around. Comedy is hard.

Unfortunately, there are also a large number of folks who seem to be convinced that they're just as funny as Stan (or Kaf, or ColdChef, to choose some other Very Amusing People), and should have just as much right, you know, 'cause they're firmly dedicated to the proposition that every man is created equal, to make jokes every time they open their virtual mouths. "Since folks like Stan (or quonsar, to choose another loveable wackjob) seem to do just fine with jokes and snarks and not much in the way of long, heavy, Too-Long-Did-Not-Read paragraphs of historical analysis," the thinking seems to go, "I can too!" Well, think again, chuckles.

This place, like any forum, stays good only to the extent that every time a user posts something (or nearly, since nobody's perfect), he or she not only thinks about themselves ('Oh, yeah, they'll just love me to bits for this one! Me so fuh-neee!') but about the community too, and their part in it. It's not such an onerous task, to give a shit about other people, is it?

It's not, for the 50th goddamn time, that I think MeTa or MeFi should be joke free, damnit! But too much of anything - anything, including smarty smartpants debate - is too much. You know, IMHO and all that.


[/sermon]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:01 PM on March 15, 2003

*
posted by yhbc at 7:21 PM on March 15, 2003

*wanders in, examines putrid pool of rotting equine protoplasm, notes signs of recent disturbance, holds nose*

Here's a concept, stav: put a fucking sock in it. You are about three thousand irritating repetitive words past the point of having anything new to say. For the love of God, no more sermons for another three months. Just Stop. Hint, hint

*leaves*
posted by y2karl at 7:23 PM on March 15, 2003

(Well, very few are as clever as CC, or as devishly handsome, so don't feel bad, yhbc.)

And y2karl - I'll stop when I'm ready, matey. For someone who has as many obvious and slightly embarrassing hobbyhorses as yourself, I'd consider just backing off. You got nothing on-topic to say? Don't say anything. Hint, hint.

For the love of God, no more sermons for another three months.

Coming from you of all people, that's rich. But my sermonizing does come at more or less three-month intervals, unlike your near-daily railing against users you have some imaginary recess-time grudge against, so you're pretty safe for the next quarter or so.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:29 PM on March 15, 2003

Here's a concept, stav: put a fucking sock in it.

Don't say anything. Hint, hint.

Good Lord, it just keeps gettin' better around here, dosen't it.
posted by jonmc at 8:04 PM on March 15, 2003

Only if by 'better' you mean 'worse.'

(OK, to take a step back from the ad-homizing, I only added to the thread because I'd just woken up here in Korealand, and a great deal of talk had happened in the intervening hours, in which I felt my point was being misrepresented. If that had not been the case, I would not have added my 'three thousand irritating repetitive words.' Stan (as the current moving target in this thread) and I have exchanged emails in the past about this, and I was loathe to have him or anyone else think that I undervalue his amusing contributions to the site.

The fact that y2karl felt that was call for telling me to shut the fuck up, well, that's his affair, I guess.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:17 PM on March 15, 2003

stavros, in all honesty, all snarkiness aside, quite seriously: I've always enjoyed your comments in the past, but yesterday and today you just seeem like you're spoiling for a fight here. You don't even seem like the same person. I find myself wanting to review your posting history to make sure I'm not confusing you with someone else. Whatever's up, I hope it gets better for you. Goodnight. (It's night where I am).
posted by Shane at 8:45 PM on March 15, 2003

Schopenhauer of all people has said that the woman civilizes the man

he was really good in blade runner i thought.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:51 PM on March 15, 2003

[this is good]

*leans back in chair, munching popcorn and hotdogs, enjoys the show.

you bastards! you want some of this?! huh?!
posted by poopy at 8:52 PM on March 15, 2003

I'm with shane, really. It's just kind of a drag watching two experienced, erudite users at eachothers throats, is what I was saying.
posted by jonmc at 8:54 PM on March 15, 2003

Spoiling for a fight? Me? What? I'm just shaking my head in bemused confusion at that, honestly. If that's the way I'm coming off, I've failed, even with my 'thousands of words' of repetition, to make myself clear.

As far as Quixotelike battling to keep this place, well, unFarklike, for lack of a better adjective, as y2karl made so abundantly clear, I've been riding that hobbyhorse for fucking ever, and getting my ass kicked over it too, more often than not.

Honestly, Shane, and snarkiness aside too : nothing is up, except that periodically my dismay at what I (subjectively) perceive to be a continuous decline in the quality of the 'filter bubbles to the surface, and I say something, and get my ass booted around a bit over it, and feel compelled to defend my point. Again.

Same old, same old.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:16 PM on March 15, 2003

Ahem:

can we just skip to the pointless banter and inane jokes?
You know what? The hell with you and your 'pointless banter'. We're knee deep in piss in here already, and you need to encourage it? Like there's not enough self-aggrandizing, lame attempts at humour clogging up every single goddamn Metatalk thread-end already with sophomoronic chortling? I realize there's no fighting against this, and I should relax and Learn to Love the Inanity, but I'm finding it difficult. Very freakin' difficult.
QED.
Shane : if you don't see what's wrong with encouraging people to chatter inanely, you're pissing on the site, and everyone who, even if they're perfectly happy to have a bit of banter happening, feels that Every Single Fucking thread is a bit much. If 'the cycle existed before [you] ever started posting here', is that a good reason to perpetuate it? How fucking anti-communitarian is that? 'Well, it's on the downhill slope already, I'll just give it another push.' Sure, I make jokes too - it's a Good Thing, and a natural thing. 'The hell with' me is fine, Shane, but at least I'm making an effort, which as far as I can see is more than you're willing to do. I expected, even though Matt spoke up in agreement, more or less, that I'd be shouted down - it's the normal pattern when someone actually brings up dissatisfaction with the jerk-off tenor that has dominated Metatalk (as Matt said) for many months now.
yhbc : 'Forget it.' No, don't forget it. Take it seriously, for just a moment. If you wish to consider yourself my 'lesser,' you're welcome to do so. I see little that would incline me to disagree with you. But I'm not sure on what basis you're creating a spectrum of 'betters' and 'lessers' - if it's user numbers, I suggest you grow up a bit. After all, it's not like that kind of piling on exacerbates any stress, or adds to the growing negative signal to noise ratio.
You want stress exacerbation? Go outside, take a walk. Suggesting that airing concerns about pointless noise adds to the pointless noise pretty much makes any attempt whatsoever to improve the quality of our collective experience here pointless, doesn't it? Nice end run. There's a time to wear your 'Look at me, I'm a wacky funster!' hat, yhbc, and a time to actually behave like an adult. If you have trouble understanding the difference, well, there's not a hell of a lot I can say to you, is there?
How clear does it have to be to you people, when the owner of the site repeatedly mentions that something is detrimental to the community? How selfish are you?
Look, Shane, my intention was not to attack you specifically. You were just the target in my sights at the moment. Although I know it's pointless, I'm just on one of my periodic 'fuck this place is becoming more sophomoric by the day' tears, and it makes me sad and angry that people just don't care how stupid it gets.
Stupid is fun, as a holiday. But living hip-deep in stupid gets real old, real fast. And the dry-cleaning bills are astronomical.
(I think jonson was talking to mark13, there, y6y6y6, not mathowie. Not that I agree with jonson's sentiments, which amount to 'if you don't like it, shut up and piss off', but just for clarity's sake...)
On the contrary, I am a great proponent of PUI (posting under the influence). Sadly, part of my crankiness today can probably be traced back to my being under the influence last night (it being Saturday morning in Korea at the moment), and a little under the weather today.
I do know the difference, stav, and I'd thank you to show me the courtesy of assuming I do
If that's the case, what exactly were you trying to say here?
I don't think you're a fuckwit, and there's nothing wrong with being a wacky funster once in a while, but it seemed pretty clear in the post I linked to that you were saying 'Oh, never mind stav, he just thinks he's all important and shit, and thinks he's better than you. We oughta just let it all hang out, and ignore him, and carry on, and he'll go away.'
If we're descending to the level of making empty threats, I will also make sure to remind you of that at the most opportune time as well.
Feel free to correct my interpretation if it's incorrect in any of the particulars.jump to the comment in this thread
Well, I agree with you on (1), certainly, jonson, and (3) too.
But (2), now.... see this, as I've always understood it, is what MetaTalk is for. Not for whinging and pissing and moaning and complaining per se, but for attempting to have discussions about how the site is running, what's good, what's bad, and what's fugly. Matt for the most parts leaves the participants in the community to set their own standards, and guides them with the lightest of touches, and Metatalk is where that's meant to happen
'Complaints' is a heavy word, but if they are contructive in intent, I think they should be aired.
Somehow over the past year or two, the word MetaTalk, for a number of reasons, has come to mean 'a place at Metafilter to just engage in random chat.' For my part, I've always understood it to mean literally what it says : talk about the talk. A place to talk about the site, the community, and things specific to it, as it says at the top of the page, and not just a place to engage in idle banter.
If Metatalk is not about (constructive) complaints (and suggestions, and bug reports and so on), then there's no point to its existence, really. Kinda like nipples on men.
That thread was a stuttering waterheaded abortion, timeistight. Bad example.
Silliness is not a sin. Perpetual silliness is annoying, is what I'm trying to say. Again. The wonderchicken perpetually repeating himself is no doubt annoying as well.
I personally think that Stavros should [...] make a point without a personal attack like "to hell with you."
You should have seen it before I edited out the unpleasantness.
I'm chagrined that y6 seems to be about the only person that isn't running around going wooop wooop wooop in panic, chicken-littling about something I didn't even say, but he is also saying someone like Stan isn't a worthy MeFite.
I love Stan. He's my little chickadee. I want to cuddle him and feed him sweet syrups and cakes. He is a genuinely funny fucker, most of the time, and there aren't really many of those around. Comedy is hard.
Unfortunately, there are also a large number of folks who seem to be convinced that they're just as funny as Stan (or Kaf, or ColdChef, to choose some other Very Amusing People), and should have just as much right, you know, 'cause they're firmly dedicated to the proposition that every man is created equal, to make jokes every time they open their virtual mouths. "Since folks like Stan (or quonsar, to choose another loveable wackjob) seem to do just fine with jokes and snarks and not much in the way of long, heavy, Too-Long-Did-Not-Read paragraphs of historical analysis," the thinking seems to go, "I can too!" Well, think again, chuckles.This place, like any forum, stays good only to the extent that every time a user posts something (or nearly, since nobody's perfect), he or she not only thinks about themselves ('Oh, yeah, they'll just love me to bits for this one! Me so fuh-neee!') but about the community too, and their part in it. It's not such an onerous task, to give a shit about other people, is it?It's not, for the 50th goddamn time, that I think MeTa or MeFi should be joke free, damnit! But too much of anything - anything, including smarty smartpants debate - is too much. You know, IMHO and all that.
(Well, very few are as clever as CC, or as devishly handsome, so don't feel bad, yhbc.)
And y2karl - I'll stop when I'm ready, matey. For someone who has as many obvious and slightly embarrassing hobbyhorses as yourself, I'd consider just backing off. You got nothing on-topic to say? Don't say anything. Hint, hint.
For the love of God, no more sermons for another three months.
Coming from you of all people, that's rich. But my sermonizing does come at more or less three-month intervals, unlike your near-daily railing against users you have some imaginary recess-time grudge against, so you're pretty safe for the next quarter or so.
[/sermon]
Only if by 'better' you mean 'worse.'
(OK, to take a step back from the ad-homizing, I only added to the thread because I'd just woken up here in Korealand, and a great deal of talk had happened in the intervening hours, in which I felt my point was being misrepresented. If that had not been the case, I would not have added my 'three thousand irritating repetitive words.' Stan (as the current moving target in this thread) and I have exchanged emails in the past about this, and I was loathe to have him or anyone else think that I undervalue his amusing contributions to the site.
The fact that y2karl felt that was call for telling me to shut the fuck up, well, that's his affair, I guess.)

I repeat: hint, hint
posted by y2karl at 9:33 PM on March 15, 2003

Where do I collect my prize?

Did thomebody thay my name? Hi thailor!
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:34 PM on March 15, 2003

shane's cool. actually, my brother's name is shane. hey shane, you're not in anyway related to my brother shane are you?
posted by poopy at 9:36 PM on March 15, 2003

posted by y2karl at 9:42 PM on March 15, 2003

What's the word count there, y2karl? You seem to be keeping track, in lieu of actually contributing anything of substance.

Almost as wearisome as my endless on-topic yammerings in this thread are your customary attempts to hector into silence people with whom you disagree on [fill in topic here].

[On preview : if you are implying by that image that drinking has anything to do with anything I've said in this thread, you old crank, I'll reach through your modem line and rip your fucking heart out. How dare you? That is so far beyond the pale that I am fucking shaking with rage at the temerity.]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:48 PM on March 15, 2003 [1 favorite]

Schopenhauer of all people has said that the woman civilizes the man
he was really good in blade runner i thought.

*sighs*
That was Rutger Hauer, pinhead. If you had any education whatsoever you'd know Arthur Schopenhauer is this.

y2karl, your "ahem" comment above looks like the Rosetta Stone. How far will this thread go I wonder?
posted by 111 at 9:56 PM on March 15, 2003

all the way to the minotaur baby.
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:00 PM on March 15, 2003

rescued from y2karl's image title tag : "here's a concept: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS!!! Seriously, reread your crap and look at all the wordage in one fucking thread, too... If you could maybe edit yourself a little MR. FINGERNAILS ON THE BLACKBOARD WRITE-A-BIBLE--sheesh, you're going on worse than SDB at his most prolix"

You know, just so everyone knows precisely what you think, there, y2karl. Don't hide your light from the world, sweety.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:04 PM on March 15, 2003

*sigh*

What a trainwreck. The road to hell is paved etc etc.

I'm going for a wee walk.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:11 PM on March 15, 2003

Let's hunt down and kill William Ray Cyrus.
posted by angry modem at 10:27 PM on March 15, 2003

Don't hide your light from the world, sweety.

What, you think people here are too stupid or something to read a title tag? Jesus Fucking H. Christ, you are a piece of work tonight.

Here's another concept: Lose The Patronizing Tone.

And instead of going for the kneejerk nasty attacks, let the air out of your ego and maybe consider what I'm trying to get across:

Too much signal=too much noise. Like, overdose of sanctimony, baby!

ps. 111 - it was a joke sgt. serenity made. Obviously. I rather liked it.
posted by y2karl at 10:37 PM on March 15, 2003

Ok already. Girls, girls and more girls.
Now all you boys play nice or else.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:39 PM on March 15, 2003

Let's hunt down and kill William Ray Cyrus.

Amen.
posted by y2karl at 10:40 PM on March 15, 2003

Lose The Patronizing Tone.

Funniest thing I've read all day.
posted by Vidiot at 10:45 PM on March 15, 2003

   MetaTalk is a discussion area for topics specific to
   MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature
   requests to questions of content, the posts are sorted
   by date, and tagged by category.

March 16

Nepotism at Metafilter?
Mefi Citizen poopy: "related to my brother shane..?" EH? I smell a conspiracy...(get it? "poopy"?)
posted by MetaCityJudge to MetaCrimes at 10:40 PM PST - 1097 comments

   These MeTa threads are getting carried away.
   posted by coolperson at 1:41 pm on March 16


   Like, wowzers.
posted by Shane at 10:48 PM on March 15, 2003

What, you think people here are too stupid or something to read a title tag?

No, but attacks in the form of (pictures)/(cutandpastes of my posts to this thread)/(buried title tags) are cowardly and pathetic. For what it's worth, my browser stopped popping up title tags a couple of upgrades ago. You got something to say, say it.

Here's another concept: Lose The Patronizing Tone.

Pot, kettle. But if I sound patronizing, I have the grace to apologize. Sorry. Not my intention - I thought after my initial spaz-out at Shane, that I was being relatively lighthearted. If my writing is leaden, I guess it's because I'm trying to express something that's relatively important to me.

Too much signal=too much noise.

Agreed. It seems a little odd, you taking me to task for being prolix in this thread, when even a cursory glance at most of your love-me-I'm-erudite threads shows how difficult it can be for anyone to get in a word edgewise between you carrying on a lively conversation with yourself.

Like, overdose of sanctimony, baby!

One man's sanctimonious is another man's heartfelt. You consistently and repeatedly attack the person on Metafilter when you have a problem with what they're saying, Karl, and I for one wish you'd just freaking lay off already. Especially because the person in this particular case is me.

Are we done yet?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:56 PM on March 15, 2003

Thanks for the pinuptoons, juju. Is there a word for it when 'toonwomen start to turn you on more than the real thing? Cool World Syndrome? Could it relate to having access to comics instead of Cosmo during the formative years?
posted by Shane at 11:02 PM on March 15, 2003

You guys have ruined MeTaTalk for me. This will be my last post. I hope you're happy!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:03 PM on March 15, 2003

Could it relate to having access to comics instead of Cosmo during the formative years?

You youngsters! In my day, we had to make do with the Sears catalog!
posted by Vidiot at 11:04 PM on March 15, 2003

Given what this (it's-just-a) website is and has become, a realization:

Trying to teach people to be civil/serious/respectful/humble (especially online) is a bit like trying to toilet train a racoon: there's no obvious, proven way, you're going to get clawed all to hell trying, and even if you do finally succeed, you're still going to have shit-mist sprayed all over the walls.

What you're trying to express is admirable, stav. The problem is that people come to the realization you came to at different times, and they don't react real well to having it forced on them.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 11:04 PM on March 15, 2003

You mean, like you get the last testosterone soaked word? Fine with me.
posted by y2karl at 11:06 PM on March 15, 2003

(I can remember a distinct period when I was excited by Archie comics. Please god let me not be alone in this.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:06 PM on March 15, 2003

[Just trying to raise a smile here lads, with the gracious madamjujujive here by my side, leaning on my arm and twirling her parassol. :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:06 PM on March 15, 2003

mmmm...parasols. I wanna hang out with Miggsy and MJJ!
posted by Vidiot at 11:08 PM on March 15, 2003

*looks at puddle of testosterone under his chair, wonders what he was thinking*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:08 PM on March 15, 2003

G'night again, John-Boy. G'night, Jim-Bob. I forgive you guys for punching me when I chuckled in church today. We'll all be friendly again and have fun on Walton's Mountain tomorrow.
posted by Shane at 11:10 PM on March 15, 2003

Is there a word for it when 'toonwomen start to turn you on more than the real thing?

Boyzone?
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:14 PM on March 15, 2003

Into the blue again...
posted by Vidiot at 11:22 PM on March 15, 2003

whoa
posted by poopy at 11:23 PM on March 15, 2003

Shane, you are apparently not alone.

Vidiot, feel free to join us!
posted by madamjujujive at 11:25 PM on March 15, 2003

Thanks, I think I will.
posted by Vidiot at 11:41 PM on March 15, 2003

posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:47 PM on March 15, 2003

oh, and shane, that first link of yours (the whole nepotism thing) is all fucked up. maybe you should try it again. i love you man. :)
posted by poopy at 11:56 PM on March 15, 2003

Gorgeous movie, Miguel. Christo did it well, too.
posted by Vidiot at 12:10 AM on March 16, 2003

Reading this thread made 90 minutes of work fly right by! Thanks, guys! ;-P
posted by mischief at 1:05 AM on March 16, 2003

Thanks Stavros for making the effort. We can but try.
Stan:I'd hit it!
posted by hama7 at 1:38 AM on March 16, 2003

*baby dash_slot- cries*
posted by dash_slot- at 3:09 AM on March 16, 2003

I can picture the eventual death of MeFi as being something similar to this thread, only instead of 2 or three people arguing while the rest trhow in their meaningless comments, it will be everyone having their turn to take things personally and get offended by everyone else.

And I stil don't know what the point of the thread was...
posted by Space Coyote at 3:57 AM on March 16, 2003

i don't get the 'friends don't let friends spill drinks' thing.
posted by kv at 4:10 AM on March 16, 2003

You mean, like you get the last testosterone soaked word? Fine with me.

Just in case that was directed at me, I think I came across wrong.

The point wasn't that Stavros has ascended to some higher mental plane, and is now ready to be a seirous member. This isn't a rite of passage thing.

It's just that not everyone seems to feel like MeFi is going to hell in a handbasket; if you're one of the ones that does, you just kinda have to lead by example in trying to convert the ones that don't.

Christ, a fucking disclaimer-within-a-disclaimer. I don't know who's right; I'm trying to help others understand, based on how I feel. Dammit.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 4:10 AM on March 16, 2003

i don't get the 'friends don't let friends spill drinks' thing.

Well, it wasn't meant to be an insult. I'd come across this ad parody site and meant to lighten things up. I had considered

but thought it might be taken the wrong way. Stavros thought I was making a dig at his drinking. I wasn't, so it was lose-lose. Nor was I trying to attack him personally.

I wish I read more closely--I would have better understood the [/sermon] thing and avoided getting annoyed by stavros's seeming repetitiveness. He thought he was making himself clear. I thought he was beating a very dead horse at extreme length.

I made a comment to the effect and he took it as a personal attack because we'd gone through this before and he attacked back and then the rollercoaster started.

Not that anything we said to each other didn't apply to ourselves as well. Not that it was either of our finest moments.

and Yelling At Nothing, that last was meant for stavros. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. God, we misunderstand each other so much here.

This ugliness has left me really really depressed. I apologize for my part of it.
posted by y2karl at 4:38 AM on March 16, 2003

As do I.

A cap on this latest teapot tempest, then.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:44 AM on March 16, 2003

Amen.
posted by Tarrama at 5:06 AM on March 16, 2003

good show, y2karl. now if you'll just stop spamming me, we'll have you halfway rehabilitated.
posted by quonsar at 5:19 AM on March 16, 2003

After 139 comments I must say I find nothing useless about nipples on men.
posted by ?! at 6:23 AM on March 16, 2003

Stav, ol' buddy, I was reading this thread and getting all reminiscent of our very first encounter [and subsequent misunderstandings, as well as the enjoyable silliness that followed [not to mention generous donations of e-books!]] *sniff*.
posted by adampsyche at 6:47 AM on March 16, 2003

That's a cool link, poopy! Yeah, I couldn't link off a time-stamp in the first one (glitch?), for some reason.

Hey, look, everyone's getting along again! Peace! (For a few hours?)
posted by Shane at 7:49 AM on March 16, 2003

For those tuning in late, here's the condensed version of this thread:

when everything descending into pointless chatter at 20 comments
Fuck, don't yell at me
Seriously, reread your crap
Jesus Fucking H. Christ, you are a piece of work tonight.

This ugliness has left me really really depressed.
And I stil don't know what the point of the thread was...
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:53 AM on March 16, 2003

Lee Press-On and the Nails.
posted by angry modem at 8:18 AM on March 16, 2003

so stavros thinks this place is going downhill and is prepared to argue the case. while y2karl thinks people should be able to post what they want, unless it's stavros. but now everyone is huggy-lovey about this because miguel gets disturbed if things aren't pleasant?

ok, i can understand why people are posting embarassed jokes.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:44 AM on March 16, 2003

Wow. Conversations like this were a principle reason I ran away from home when I turned 17. Face it people, you're all a big meta-family.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:58 PM on March 16, 2003

you're all a big meta-family

Oh, so now it has devolved into namecalling, has it?! ;-P
posted by mischief at 1:18 PM on March 16, 2003

personally , i dont read any thread after it gets past 148 comments.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:53 PM on March 16, 2003

The MetaCostanza's.
posted by quonsar at 3:20 PM on March 16, 2003

while y2karl thinks people should be able to post what they want, unless it's stavros.

Not true. He claimed I was trying to shut him up. I was pointing out that at the extreme length he was going on the signal to noise ratio became all noise. I reacted to the length of his writing: not him, not his thoughts. He thought he was just making himself clear, as the topic is something he has strong feelings about and took it as a personal attack that I criticized his prolixity. He insists otherwise but I wasn't trying to shut him up. Stavros is a fine person who burnt some bridges last night.

But this sort of thing is why I said I wanted to see more women here because these boyzone schoolyard fights would happen less often. All who have written me have said the same thing: it was like hearing your mom and dad fight. God knows I heard enough of that in my time, so I know just what they meant. You just want it to stop. I am all too aware I have a myriad of faults and claim no moral superiority here. I leave it to each reader to decide how to divide the share of blame.

It is really hard not getting sucked into the whirlpool of ego and quien es mas macho and to keep coming back, trying to justify one's self. It's stupid and wasteful and it's about how half the exchanges here devolve. No one wants to be in the wrong, so everyone's default is to make the other person wrong first, usually by insisting the other is doing thus and such, especially when they feel personally attacked. We're all writers and vain and an attack on one's writing is automatically seen as an attack on one's self.
posted by y2karl at 3:25 PM on March 16, 2003

Jesus Christ, are you all still here? Shut up go home shut up go home shut up go fuckin' home!

Still here? All right, look at it this way: I'm always fatter in people's memories than I am in real life. Thus, whenever I see someone that I haven't seen for a long time, they always compliment me on how much weight I've lost even though I've been within 5 pounds either side of 250 for twenty farking years.

MetaFilter never was what it was.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:43 PM on March 16, 2003

is it just me, or do the mouseovery whatchamacallits for mefi sideblog links position themselves anywhere they damn like on the page, and they don't unmouserize?
posted by kv at 10:05 PM on March 16, 2003

*sweeps piles of crap from floor and puts chairs on tables*
posted by dg at 11:10 PM on March 16, 2003

*breaks window, climbs in, rifles till, leaves quietly*
posted by quonsar at 8:25 AM on March 17, 2003

*takes tape from hidden video camera, anonymously mails it to police*
posted by iconomy at 8:29 AM on March 17, 2003

*peers through window, looks at mess, shakes head, goes back to enjoying springlike weather*
posted by languagehat at 9:03 AM on March 17, 2003

And you wonder why girlz don't show up here more often, aside from the very brave madamejujujive and iconomy?
posted by Lynsey at 11:00 AM on March 17, 2003

Hi! Let's paint each other's nails and trade hair secrets and...

Oh fuck. Late again.

*takes chairs back off tables, unscrews the caps from all the salt shakers, goes back to work*
posted by jennyb at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2003

*wakes up sgt serenity, who is passed out under the bar*

So much for avoiding inane jokes in MeTa threads. I'll act more responsible. . . right after this thread.
posted by Shane at 11:30 AM on March 17, 2003

* stops in front, peers in like the Tramp, and wonders if anybody really knows who the girlz are. Grabs a 20 quonsar dropped and skips off.*
posted by ?! at 12:18 PM on March 17, 2003

I bet girls will visit once you guys get rid of the *[unlikely to be funny fake action]* fetish.
posted by oh posey at 1:50 PM on March 17, 2003

i think gay men are more of a civilizing influence than women.
Apart from sir anonymous obviously.
do gay men get penis envy ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:52 PM on March 17, 2003

Only in the YMCA shower, sgt.
posted by ?! at 6:05 PM on March 17, 2003

And you wonder why girlz don't show up here more often, aside from the very brave madamejujujive and iconomy?

And what am I? Chopped liver??
posted by konolia at 7:22 PM on March 17, 2003

yeah and i asked a question and nobody answered! crys :(
posted by kv at 7:36 PM on March 17, 2003

kv - it isn't just you. Sorry, I was too enthralled with the word "unmouserize" to notice that you had asked a question ;)
posted by iconomy at 7:51 PM on March 17, 2003

woof!!!!! thank you :(
posted by kv at 9:36 PM on March 17, 2003

kv, I noticed the same thing with the sideblog. They unmouserize for me, though, unless I click on the link. There was some discussion about it here, but I don't think it ever got resolved.

koala
posted by eddydamascene at 11:57 PM on March 17, 2003

And you wonder why girlz don't show up here more often, aside from the very brave madamejujujive and iconomy?

Hey! There's loads of girls here. Like you need to be brave to post on Mefi. Jesus.
posted by Summer at 2:40 AM on March 18, 2003

Just wanted to shed a last tear for this wonderful wonderful thread before it gets bumped. We had some good times, old friend.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:21 AM on March 18, 2003

i'll always remember you.....i promise to write....i'll call you next week , ok ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:30 AM on March 18, 2003

I bet girls will visit once you guys get rid of the *[unlikely to be funny fake action]*

*puts feet up on table, grabs a leftover half-full beer and thinks, Women just don't get our humor.*
[/sexist kidding]
posted by Shane at 8:00 AM on March 18, 2003

*points and laughs at Shane spitting out cigarette butt from half-full beer can*

Oh and the women not getting our humour thing? It is part of the whole not being able to read maps problem ;-)
posted by dg at 2:18 PM on March 18, 2003

We do know how to read maps, you silly hunk of manbeef, you. We just pretend not to so that we can laugh our asses off when you get lost and then refuse to ask for directions ;)
posted by iconomy at 5:53 PM on March 18, 2003

the reason why we know men invented roadmaps? who else could conceive of one inch = one mile.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:28 PM on March 23, 2003

ah sweet little thread...how i missed you.....all week long i ached for you.....im still up for the wedding by the way...
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:39 PM on March 25, 2003