Am I the biggest loser on MetaFilter?

May 15, 2003 9:04 AM

Am I the biggest loser on MetaFilter? Wait - don't answer that. Let me start again. Am I the only user who keeps track of the posts on the front page as they scroll by? I don't check MeFi every day (weekends, if I'm on vacation or something, etc.), but then when I come back I try to catch up with a quick scroll-thru. Now, this is not in any way a personal slam against joedan... [more inside]
posted by soyjoy to etiquette/policy at 9:04 AM (41 comments total)

...but I get ticked off when something's reposted in less than, say, two weeks, because I go to the trouble of watching what happens on the front page - even though I actually read probably 10% or less of the threads. Yet time and again, someone double posts and then cries that their choice of keywords didn't show up in the search. I know I'm an intolerant bastard, so let me try to Miguel-ize this a little and ask, do you try to keep track of everything that's been posted? And when you go to comment, do you read all the comments before yours so you're not junking up the thread with a link to something someone else already provided? Or do I need to join some MeFi rehab 12-step program?

Only recently have I started being equally obsessive about MetaTalk, so if this is a double post, yeah, that will be ironic, but not quite the same animal. I welcome any links to previous discussions, though.
posted by soyjoy at 9:04 AM on May 15, 2003

i'll join you in the twelve step. looser me had a deja vu when i saw that post. ;-)
posted by dabitch at 9:24 AM on May 15, 2003

I solve the problem by never posting links, so I don't worry about double-posts.

But yes, I do tend to go back and read everything post except weekends. Them's the sewers.
posted by rocketman at 9:37 AM on May 15, 2003

...but I get ticked off when something's reposted in less than, say, two weeks, because I go to the trouble of watching what happens on the front page - even though I actually read probably 10% or less of the threads. Yet time and again, someone double posts and then cries that their choice of keywords didn't show up in the search.

I'll never understand this mentality... It's just a web site. No, not even that, it's just a post on a web site. Why does that make you angry?

Just move on.
posted by SweetJesus at 9:48 AM on May 15, 2003

It is a common misconception that people who post to MetaFilter actually read MetaFilter
posted by stefanie at 9:52 AM on May 15, 2003

You just have to accept that no two people care about MetaFilter, or any other thing, in the same way. Some people are obsessive about it, some people are its staunch defenders, others think it's always fine however it is, still others don't care at all. With this many long-term users, there are bound to be as many opinions about MeFi as there are users. Arguing about how it ought to work is as useless as arguing about who the best band of all time is. There is only one's humble (or not so humble) opinion and the executive fiat of Haughey. People make double-posts despite their best efforts not to. I've done it; I'll probably do it again. Screws fall out; the world is an imperfect place.
posted by vraxoin at 9:57 AM on May 15, 2003

soy:

I know I'm an intolerant bastard, so let me try to Miguel-ize this a little and ask, do you try to keep track of everything that's been posted?

i recognize topics and sites that have been posted before. especially if it was something that interested me. i figure there's something for everyone on mefi, though, so if everyone has that kind of mentality you might get the feeling that everyone remembers all that was ever posted on the site. really, they remember what interested them.

And when you go to comment, do you read all the comments before yours so you're not junking up the thread with a link to something someone else already provided?

no. it's a good idea to read them all, but sometimes i comment on something one person said early on in the thread without reading on.

there's no magic bullet for avoiding double posts. don't get worked up about them, because they're going to happen. really, anyone who treats you badly for a double post is acting like an asshole, so there's no reason to respond to them. (mefi has quite a few cranky assholes, but as i assume they don't care that everyone wishes they would piss off, it's not worth it to pay any attention to them.)

post whatever sounds good and you think deserves attention. that's all you need to remember.
posted by moz at 10:01 AM on May 15, 2003

Am I the biggest loser on MetaFilter?

git yer thievin' hands offa mah crown, interloper!
posted by quonsar at 10:11 AM on May 15, 2003

I try to scan all the new posts since I last visited, but I know that there is no way I will ever be able to remember all of them. I saw this post and knew I had seen it before, but I wasn't sure if it had been on MeFi... I've seen this particular story/movie posted a lot of places. I've had similar thoughts to a post that was unique to MeFi because I had seen it at a different site (or two).

But I can't imagine scanning two weeks (plus) worth of posts every time I wanted to post something. I agree with moz: double posts will happen. At least this poster did a search.
posted by rhapsodie at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2003

I think there's a second sense in some people's minds: Wow, this is hilarious, and it's about a topic that's so wide-appealing that it'd be really weird if half the Web hasn't seen it by now. Others don't have that sense.

I perhaps have too much of that sense, which severely limits my posting--I think: Oh, if I saw it, EVERYONE must have.
posted by GaelFC at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2003

Yeah, I don't understand the "double post!" mentality at all. Who cares? Why do people get their panties in a knot about it all the time?

Whenever I talk to people about MeFi, someone in the group always says "great place except for the people screaming about double posts all the time. What's wrong with them?"

Personally, I was looking for exactly that link the other day. I knew I'd seen it on MeFi. I searched for "star wars," and other words I "remembered" from the post and couldn't find it. Same day I was looking for the post about the store that was boarded up and now re-opened for an online auction. Searched for "auction", "boarded up", "sealed up", "shop," "store", "npr" (which I thought was the source). Couldn't find the damn thing.

I agree that people should search before doing a FPP, but how long should they search for? I can't believe that that kid's video couldn't be found with "star wars". Worse, I can't believe how many people cry "double post" over and over again.
posted by dobbs at 12:08 PM on May 15, 2003

Worse, I can't believe how many people cry "double post" over and over again.

Worse, I can't believe how many people cry "people crying double-post" over and over again.
posted by rocketman at 12:13 PM on May 15, 2003

I solve the problem by never posting links, so I don't worry about double-posts.

... and, not sure if you're kidding or not but I do know at least one person who avoids FPPing for precisely this reason. It certainly brings down her enjoyment of MeFi.
posted by dobbs at 12:16 PM on May 15, 2003

Actually, my reasons for not posting are two-fold:

1. I never find anything interesting or unique on the web.
2. In the event that I find something unique or interesting, someone else will have it on the front page in a day or so.

My own guiding principle for this place is "just because you can post and comment doesn't mean you should." Many folks would be wise, in my opinion, to follow this advice.

But in regards to your friend, it's too bad if she feels afraid to post. This site is not supposed to replace a browbeating mother.
posted by rocketman at 12:38 PM on May 15, 2003

And I was joking about the "crying about people crying double-post" bit.
posted by rocketman at 12:39 PM on May 15, 2003

I was all about to attempt to steer this back to the second, Miguel-ish half of my post, which was really the substance of it, when this happened.

Ironically, doing the scroll-thru in this case wouldn't have helped - since the other had been deleted - but doing a search on "Star Wars" or "video" would have. What a crazy world.
posted by soyjoy at 1:23 PM on May 15, 2003

Rocketman, those are exactly the reasons I don't post FPPs. I'm not on the cutting edge of 'cool stuff on the web' - that's why I come to Mefi! That, and a vague fear of getting flamed to a crisp for doubleposting.
posted by widdershins at 1:32 PM on May 15, 2003

Just to add a piece to the puzzle.

You cannot find that Star Wars link by searching for:

starwars
star wars
light saber
lightsaber
darth
jedi

or really any other terms that describe it at all.

If I searched for all those terms, and actually did something besides read MeFi all day, I'd figure it was not a duplicate post and would post away.

The MeFi search is often broken and seldom exhaustive. You people know this.

Also, people somehow think it's cool to not actually say what the post is about in language that might help an index one day.

So, between a broken search engine and enigmatic postings, people are surprised duplicate posts occur?
posted by Ynoxas at 2:08 PM on May 15, 2003

Ynoxas, you can search for URLs, and you can use Google's site search. This would solve about 90% of double posts. Mostly the problem is people don't even try.
posted by Hildago at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2003

Am I the biggest loser on MetaFilter?
I thought, when I first saw this, that I had posted a thread in my sleep. I too peruse every thread looking for those that interest me, although I do not read many and comment in even less.

I was about to make a snarky comment about how Google is our friend but, not only did Hildago beat me to it, I did a search myself to provide a sarcastic link to the search result and then could not find the thread using Google. Searching URLs, or even partial URLs, would not help as they were all links to different sites. Using Google to check thoroughly would certainly eliminate almost all doubles, though.

Does Google index deleted threads?
posted by dg at 3:17 PM on May 15, 2003

well, i did search and i didn't know that original post contained what i was posting. my browser doesn't like embeded stuff too much so what are you going to do. the post didn't say anything about some kid making an ass of himself and the url was different. and you can't say that i just post anything cause i rarely even make comments let alone front page posts. some people don't bother to look or search the site, but accidents can happen. it's not like we're human or anything.
posted by chrisroberts at 4:29 PM on May 15, 2003

2 words.

Speed reading.
posted by konolia at 4:59 PM on May 15, 2003

I don't see what the fuss about double posts is all about either - is everyone dreadfully concerned about the impact one extra post will have on the server bandwidth? I just wonder if it's an excuse for some folks to show off how much attention they pay to every post made. But fear of being caught out has certainly made me a lot more careful about what I post - sticking really to only the most obscure, hidden sites, or to the freshest stuff that's so new I would have noticed it in the first couple of posts if it had been posted before. I automatically don't even think about posting something I've already seen on another weblog - it's sure to have been posted here already. I guess that's the beauty of Metafilter; things appear so quickly here that it still fulfills it's purpose of being the filter for the filters.
posted by Jimbob at 6:28 PM on May 15, 2003

The big deal is Matt deletes them when he sees them.
posted by konolia at 7:31 PM on May 15, 2003

sorry.
posted by joedan at 8:35 PM on May 15, 2003

I don't see what the fuss about double posts is all about either - is everyone dreadfully concerned about the impact one extra post will have on the server bandwidth?

To me, at least, it's an issue of respect. Do you care enough about the community to take the necessary steps. It doesn't hurt anybody to read a double post, but when you do read one, you assume the person posting it didn't want to take a minute out of his time to save a minute of everyone else's. I make this assumption, anyway.
posted by Hildago at 9:17 PM on May 15, 2003

The Anti Double Post hatred has really died down since the murders ...I've noticed folks saying "please go fuck yourself" and the other day someone said "you are a fucktardian asshole, sir". Don't worry, it will return to normal soon.
posted by Mack Twain at 9:46 PM on May 15, 2003

It was a shitty post anyway
posted by johnny7 at 3:53 AM on May 16, 2003

I don't see what the fuss about double posts is all about either

Imagine a MeFi where anything goes. Then think of your top ten evergreen memes: your All Your Bases, your viking kittens, your vibrating broomsticks, your Get Your War Ons. Then imagine them being posted again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and imagine how long most people would stick around.

For one reason or another not every double post gets the axe, but a total anything-goes attitude would be the death of this place.

certainly made me a lot more careful about what I post - sticking really to only the most obscure, hidden sites, or to the freshest stuff that's so new I would have noticed it in the first couple of posts if it had been posted before.

Good heavens, man, if all of us did that, MeFi would become some sort of high-quality filter of the freshest and best sites on the web, worthy of regular visits from all and sundry! Hush now, before you go giving people ideas.
posted by rory at 5:05 AM on May 16, 2003

I just wonder if it's an excuse for some folks to show off how much attention they pay to every post made.

B-I-N-G-O

And Bingo was his name-o.

This is also closely related to the "i know more injokes than you" and the "member X worship".

Anything to, you know, try to divide and smother the community instead of embracing and encouraging it.

Of course the double posts need to be kept reasonably thin. But a simple flagging of the post as a double and either closing the thread or deleting it is perfectly fine. It's the brutally sarcastic remarks along with the hateful tone and just plain mean-spirited attacks that annoy me.

Here's a simple idea. A link on each post that is "alert a moderator this is a double post". Then Matt or those entrusted by him could review the flags pretty easily. But that'd never go because so many members like to search the database on EVERY SINGLE POST to see if it was mentioned in a thread 2 years ago.

I have the sense pretty much every single day on MeFi that I've stumbled, unwelcome, into someone else's private party. And I've been a member for approaching a year, and a lurker for at least 8 months before that?

But instead of them kicking you out of the party, they just cloister themselves and point and mock and hope to make you uncomfortable enough for you to leave on your own.

If I used MeFi as any sort of community I would be a desperately depressed person right now. Really it is a relatively good link nest, and I enjoy the ramblings of people in the threads that are so convinced of their intellectual or cultural superiority and couldn't be more wrong.

And to save someone a couple of inches of screenspace, I'm sure I'm wrong all the time. In fact, I doubt I've ever been right on any of my posts. Fine.

That doesn't keep it from being amusing.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:04 AM on May 16, 2003

rory - I hear ya, but I don't wanna advocate for anyone being intimidated from posting. And the slippery slope argument may be stretching it. konolia and Hildago both make good points: Anyone who says "why get so upset about double posts?" is saying "why get so upset about making Matt do extra work?" Hildago really hit what, I think, bugs me so much: I respect the community enough to keep up with what's going on and making sure, if I post something, that it at least is something that hasn't been done recently, in its same form. When I see stuff like (sigh) today's crop, I feel as though some of us see this as a sandbox and others at a litterbox. And yes, coming upon double posts is, to me, like finding that evidence in the sandbox.

On preview, Ynoxas, you can sing Bingo all you want, but you can't tell me what my motives are, only your own, and you're welcome to 'em.
posted by soyjoy at 7:11 AM on May 16, 2003

That doesn't keep it from being amusing.

and so your problem is...?
posted by quonsar at 7:27 AM on May 16, 2003

Also, people somehow think it's cool to not actually say what the post is about in language that might help an index one day.

an additional field in the posting page for index terms would handle it (given that it seems to be useless to rail against what users naturally do). i often do this on my site, where links that aren't necessarily what they appear to be are part of the schtick. i don't actually have a field, but i'll frequently put some faux-html in the body of the post that goes in the database but won't be rendered in the browser, i.e. . works great on searches. (however, i do not recommend putting faux-html in metafilter posts. a field would be good.)
posted by quonsar at 7:37 AM on May 16, 2003

oh crap. my faux-html isnt rendering in the browser. duh. is it friday yet?

<lightsabre star wars kid jedi dancing butthole with webcam>
posted by quonsar at 7:39 AM on May 16, 2003

It's annoying because, if you look at it like a conversation, double posters are talking but not listening.

Imagine standing at a party talking with a group of people. You discuss topic XYZ for a few minutes and then move on. Two minutes later, some guy who's been there the whole time says "Hey! You're not gonna believe what I just heard about topic XYZ!"

It's only funny the first twenty times; after that it's just plain rude.
posted by stefanie at 8:48 AM on May 16, 2003

rory - I hear ya, but I don't wanna advocate for anyone being intimidated from posting.

Me neither, soyjoy - I try to keep away from any sort of witch-hunt around here, double-post-related or otherwise, and I'm sorry Jimbob has been led to his approach to posting by fear... but it's a mighty good approach to posting.

the slippery slope argument may be stretching it

Too many bad memories of Usenet and unmoderated mailing lists, I guess.
posted by rory at 8:53 AM on May 16, 2003

quonsar is always wrong about everything. I have been paying attention. One day, he'll try to render his code in the wrong browser, and all hell will break loose.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 9:09 AM on May 16, 2003

I'd like to apologise for posting that for the third time.
I wasn't reading MeFi that much around nine days or so ago, and I wasn't reading it much in late-ish April either, so I missed both those posts.

My criteria for posting something is that if it's newsworthy and I think it's worth some comments then I'll go ahead an post it.

I always check to see if it has been posted in the 2 or 3 days prior, and I did do that today, but I don't go as far back as 9 days or more (to be honest, I have better things to do than painstakingly research MeFi back by weeks to ensure my post is unique).

My own take on duplicate posts is that it's totally fair to call someone out on them, because if you don't, then everyone will just post away to their hearts content, and then it'll be double and triple posts a-go-go.

Again, my apologies.
posted by tomcosgrave at 9:13 AM on May 16, 2003

It's annoying because, if you look at it like a conversation, double posters are talking but not listening.

Were the search function more effective, I'd agree with you. But as has been pointed out by multiple people, myself included, sometimes one can't even find something they KNOW was on the site. This makes the chances of finding something you're not sure would be here even more difficult.

I agree that a "notify moderator" function would be useful, as would a keywords field on the fpp form.
posted by dobbs at 1:12 PM on May 16, 2003

It's like stephanie said, it would be very cool to 'flag' a double post so that people stop being rude with their "double post" postings in threads. Two rudes don't make a right.
posted by dabitch at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2003

do I need to join some MeFi rehab 12-step program?

experts now beleive it may take as many as eighteen steps to recover from mefi.

metafilter: it's more dangerous than we all thought.
posted by quonsar at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2003