Askme is for answering the question August 19, 2004 2:18 PM Subscribe
ParisParamus, cut it out. Please. Your hateful spewing on AskMe does not help anyone. You're not "bucking the lefty trend", you're just being a jerk, and polluting an otherwise useful resource. If you really feel the need for release, please be considerate, and try to keep it in the blue. Everyone else, stop feeding the troll. Please.
I thought it was kind of a stupid thread, but if it's going to exist you have to expext someone from the right is going to make a contrarian comment or two in it. The same thing would likely happen if a right-winger asked for DNC protest slogans.
This is coming from someone who disagrees with PP somewhere in the neighbourhood of 99.8% of the time and finds his argumentative style to be logically unsound and more than a little misguided. Besides, the poor quality of his "slogans" is punishment enough, I think.
posted by The God Complex at 2:31 PM on August 19, 2004
This is coming from someone who disagrees with PP somewhere in the neighbourhood of 99.8% of the time and finds his argumentative style to be logically unsound and more than a little misguided. Besides, the poor quality of his "slogans" is punishment enough, I think.
posted by The God Complex at 2:31 PM on August 19, 2004
I don't know, we get to see Steve break PP's sarcasm detector:
True. That was pretty funny. It made my unexpected foray into the thread more than worth while.
posted by The God Complex at 2:32 PM on August 19, 2004
True. That was pretty funny. It made my unexpected foray into the thread more than worth while.
posted by The God Complex at 2:32 PM on August 19, 2004
you have to expext someone from the right is going to make a contrarian comment or two in it.
Um, contrarian comments don't need to be deragatory and homophobic.
posted by adampsyche at 2:32 PM on August 19, 2004
Um, contrarian comments don't need to be deragatory and homophobic.
posted by adampsyche at 2:32 PM on August 19, 2004
PP should know to stay out. It's apparent tho' unstated that the question is asking for help from sympathising people, not the opposition, and PP has nothing constructive to add. Not to mention, ya know, the homo comment.
posted by Shane at 2:36 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Shane at 2:36 PM on August 19, 2004
Pauvre Paramus, so in need of attention...
posted by Space Coyote at 2:46 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 2:46 PM on August 19, 2004
Looks like Matt snipped his comments from the thread, but he's still posting away... A shame, too -- AskMe should be the one place that shouldn't be crapped on like that. (Not that MeFi proper should, either...)
posted by armage at 2:47 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by armage at 2:47 PM on August 19, 2004
I thought it was kind of a stupid thread,
Hey! It's something I wanted some help with, and there's a good smart group here with useful knowledge. I figured it would attract some of the usual suspects who couldn't stay away, but that something useful could be learned nonetheless.
posted by milovoo at 2:49 PM on August 19, 2004
Hey! It's something I wanted some help with, and there's a good smart group here with useful knowledge. I figured it would attract some of the usual suspects who couldn't stay away, but that something useful could be learned nonetheless.
posted by milovoo at 2:49 PM on August 19, 2004
Free speech, as long as you agree with me.
Such progressive views.
If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all."
- Noam Chomsky
In a free society, standards of public morality can be measured only by whether physical coercion - violence against persons or property - occurs. There is no right not to be offended by words, actions or symbols."
- Richard E. Sincere, Jr
First, the post itself is stupid as it is nothing but another way to be divisive. I don't think that is what Matt wants AskMe to be. However, if there is a thread for political message suggestions, one has to accept all suggestions.
Like TGC, I disagree with a lot of what Paris Parasmus says. But since I believe in the liberal ideals of free expression and since I would not want MeFi to become an echo chamber, then you must permit those who disagree with you to speak their mind. Those who would call themselves open-minded ought to accept the messages of everyone.
"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire
posted by Seth at 2:49 PM on August 19, 2004
Such progressive views.
If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all."
- Noam Chomsky
In a free society, standards of public morality can be measured only by whether physical coercion - violence against persons or property - occurs. There is no right not to be offended by words, actions or symbols."
- Richard E. Sincere, Jr
First, the post itself is stupid as it is nothing but another way to be divisive. I don't think that is what Matt wants AskMe to be. However, if there is a thread for political message suggestions, one has to accept all suggestions.
Like TGC, I disagree with a lot of what Paris Parasmus says. But since I believe in the liberal ideals of free expression and since I would not want MeFi to become an echo chamber, then you must permit those who disagree with you to speak their mind. Those who would call themselves open-minded ought to accept the messages of everyone.
"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire
posted by Seth at 2:49 PM on August 19, 2004
From the question:...encapsulate some of the major disagreements and complaints against the Republican platform...
However, if there is a thread for political message suggestions, one has to accept all suggestions.
Wouldn't the time for the pro-Bush slogans have been before the DNC?
If someone missed their chance then, that's not my problem.
must permit those who disagree with you to speak their mind ... free expression blah...blah...blah echo chamber blah...blah...blah open-minded
Even if it doesn't answer the question being asked? but no, actually, you're correct, of course, I am really just trying to silence all the opinions of the right and shut them down forever with my single ask.me question.
posted by milovoo at 3:01 PM on August 19, 2004
However, if there is a thread for political message suggestions, one has to accept all suggestions.
Wouldn't the time for the pro-Bush slogans have been before the DNC?
If someone missed their chance then, that's not my problem.
must permit those who disagree with you to speak their mind ... free expression blah...blah...blah echo chamber blah...blah...blah open-minded
Even if it doesn't answer the question being asked? but no, actually, you're correct, of course, I am really just trying to silence all the opinions of the right and shut them down forever with my single ask.me question.
posted by milovoo at 3:01 PM on August 19, 2004
However, if there is a thread for political message suggestions, one has to accept all suggestions.
No. Not if people aren't answering the question. Milovoo specifically said he was trying to not debate issues. It wasn't a thread for "political message suggestions" it was for "protest slogans for the RNC". MeFi is for debate, AskMe is for getting questions answered. Guidelines by the posting box reiterate this in case anyone had particularly forgotten. This isn't a free speech issue it's a shitting on the thread issue. PP can try his luck in MeFi with that sort of behavior, but it's out of line and actionable in AskMe. He posted, what, six times in the course of 15 posts? That's already pushing it no matter what the content of your posts is. Being off-topic and nasty is also pushing it, no matter how many times you post. Combine the two and, well, there are consequences.
posted by jessamyn at 3:02 PM on August 19, 2004
No. Not if people aren't answering the question. Milovoo specifically said he was trying to not debate issues. It wasn't a thread for "political message suggestions" it was for "protest slogans for the RNC". MeFi is for debate, AskMe is for getting questions answered. Guidelines by the posting box reiterate this in case anyone had particularly forgotten. This isn't a free speech issue it's a shitting on the thread issue. PP can try his luck in MeFi with that sort of behavior, but it's out of line and actionable in AskMe. He posted, what, six times in the course of 15 posts? That's already pushing it no matter what the content of your posts is. Being off-topic and nasty is also pushing it, no matter how many times you post. Combine the two and, well, there are consequences.
posted by jessamyn at 3:02 PM on August 19, 2004
See, this is why I'm suspicious of you, Seth. Milovoo did, I think, post the question in good faith and AskMe is not a discussion venue—Matt explicitly has asked that it's about answering questions usefully. PP is quite aware that his suggestions weren't helpful. This isn't about silencing dissenting political views, it's about silencing a disruptive voice for the purpose at hand. PP is misbehaving, and I'd feel the same way if the comments had been from a leftist in response to someone asking for protest slogans for the Dem convention. Your partisanship is showing.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:02 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:02 PM on August 19, 2004
Free speech, as long as you agree with me. Such progressive views.
Not at all. There are plenty of people, here and elsewhere, that I totally disagree with, that I respect nonetheless because they are intelligent, well-spoken, or just plain good people. ParisParamus is just being a snarkass because he can, and it's not only tiresome, but disruptive to the people who are trying to provide an actual answer to the posted question. Also note that nowhere did I tell him to shut up, or that he shouldn't express his opinions - I just politely asked him to do it in a more appropriate forum. Even if I did agree with him here, it wouldn't be a good thing, and if I didn't call it out, I would hope that someone else eventually would have.
Maybe this wasn't the best AskMe thread ever, but if people (that is, Matt) think(s) it's a bad question, it should be deleted, not drowned with crap. Answer the question asked, contribute to the discussion, or ignore it. Don't just drop a steamer in the room and stand there with a smug look on your face. This is not the first time PP has tossed a stinkbomb into AskMe - I just didn't think it was really a problem until it became a trend.
posted by majcher at 3:03 PM on August 19, 2004
Not at all. There are plenty of people, here and elsewhere, that I totally disagree with, that I respect nonetheless because they are intelligent, well-spoken, or just plain good people. ParisParamus is just being a snarkass because he can, and it's not only tiresome, but disruptive to the people who are trying to provide an actual answer to the posted question. Also note that nowhere did I tell him to shut up, or that he shouldn't express his opinions - I just politely asked him to do it in a more appropriate forum. Even if I did agree with him here, it wouldn't be a good thing, and if I didn't call it out, I would hope that someone else eventually would have.
Maybe this wasn't the best AskMe thread ever, but if people (that is, Matt) think(s) it's a bad question, it should be deleted, not drowned with crap. Answer the question asked, contribute to the discussion, or ignore it. Don't just drop a steamer in the room and stand there with a smug look on your face. This is not the first time PP has tossed a stinkbomb into AskMe - I just didn't think it was really a problem until it became a trend.
posted by majcher at 3:03 PM on August 19, 2004
I'm rather surprised that Matt lets PP get away with this while smacking down others for lesser AxMe offenses.
posted by bshort at 3:07 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by bshort at 3:07 PM on August 19, 2004
I just wish I had not actually replied to the original comment, now it's all hanging out there like I'm ranting to myself (which I try to avoid doing) so for future reference, gotta, gotta, gotta remember not to reply to trollish stuff.
posted by milovoo at 3:12 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by milovoo at 3:12 PM on August 19, 2004
Fair enough. I will accept that PP offended the purpose of the Green by offering answers that are unhelpful. That is true. I contend that the question itself was improper, but I will agree that PP didn't follow the rules regarding answering quesitons.
However, my initial reactions were more directed towards those in this thread who didn't like his comments because they were "deragatory and homophobic" or Shane's contention that only "sympathizing" people should answer the question. Or Shane saying he didn't care for the "homo" comment. Those seem to be contentions about *what* PP said.
The post shouldn't have happened. That it did, PP shouldn't have shit in it. That PP did, some people were correct in pointing out that he wasn't helpful. But people are unhelpful frequently in AskMe. I just got the impression that some people didn't care for PP's message because of its political implications. And that is wrong.
If you want to turn this place into a political forum, then be fully prepared to accept political opinions you don't agree with.
posted by Seth at 3:15 PM on August 19, 2004
However, my initial reactions were more directed towards those in this thread who didn't like his comments because they were "deragatory and homophobic" or Shane's contention that only "sympathizing" people should answer the question. Or Shane saying he didn't care for the "homo" comment. Those seem to be contentions about *what* PP said.
The post shouldn't have happened. That it did, PP shouldn't have shit in it. That PP did, some people were correct in pointing out that he wasn't helpful. But people are unhelpful frequently in AskMe. I just got the impression that some people didn't care for PP's message because of its political implications. And that is wrong.
If you want to turn this place into a political forum, then be fully prepared to accept political opinions you don't agree with.
posted by Seth at 3:15 PM on August 19, 2004
once again, the arbitrary delete finger of mathowie fucks the thread worse than the offending comment. good work!
posted by quonsar at 3:19 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by quonsar at 3:19 PM on August 19, 2004
Considering that the Ask question gave people a vehicle to spew hatred against the Republicans, I'm not suprised at the response from PP. Questions like this allow people to nail there political colours to the mast, whilst at the same time precluding anybody who disagrees. If I asked the same question about Democratic members, then there would be a host of undeleted snarky comments from the Metafilter Left.
I think it's fair (considering the question) that PP's comments got deleted, but I suspect that the same treatment for a right wing question would go ignored. This is unfair, and it's an issue that the community as a whole is ignoring.
On preview... What Seth said. (although I think the original question was meant in good faith)
posted by seanyboy at 3:24 PM on August 19, 2004
I think it's fair (considering the question) that PP's comments got deleted, but I suspect that the same treatment for a right wing question would go ignored. This is unfair, and it's an issue that the community as a whole is ignoring.
On preview... What Seth said. (although I think the original question was meant in good faith)
posted by seanyboy at 3:24 PM on August 19, 2004
This is why askme is better left to the nonpolitical, or at least to less loaded threads. I'm sure I dislike Bush as much as most MeFites seem to, but when you post a thread asking for the best anti-bush slogans, it only stands to reason that some people are going to disagree and possibly say something. As I said, if the roles were reversed in this scenario I could see some of our liberal contingent commenting on the wavering quality of the slogans. I think the real offense here is that PP continued to do so ad nauseum, as he's known to do--and probably expected to do by anyone who knows his history. I don't really get my back up over a single off-topic or contrarian comment, but a string of them is definitely a no-no.
Um, contrarian comments don't need to be deragatory and homophobic.
I agree. As I said, I think the poor quality of his responses pretty much makes him out to be the fool most of us already think he is. My point was simply that it's to be expected when these threads pop up in the blue, green, or grey, so one must approach them with a fairly thick skin.
Besides, I'd prefer if America was more of a homoland, so maybe that's why I don't take offense ;)
posted by The God Complex at 3:24 PM on August 19, 2004
Um, contrarian comments don't need to be deragatory and homophobic.
I agree. As I said, I think the poor quality of his responses pretty much makes him out to be the fool most of us already think he is. My point was simply that it's to be expected when these threads pop up in the blue, green, or grey, so one must approach them with a fairly thick skin.
Besides, I'd prefer if America was more of a homoland, so maybe that's why I don't take offense ;)
posted by The God Complex at 3:24 PM on August 19, 2004
Or Shane saying he didn't care for the "homo" comment. Those seem to be contentions about *what* PP said.
Yes, I see your point, but I think you're still wrong. This is because the content of PP's comments was deliberately disruptive. That makes it relevant. Bottom line: his responses were not written in good faith. He wasn't presenting his contrary political view in good faith, either. He was quite obviously deliberately being provocative because the question offended his politics.
If you want me to agree that, perhaps, there's a bit of a shell game going on with the (justified) outrage at PPs bigoted comment being presented as more generalized and non-partisan outrage...well, I'll agree to that. If you want me to agree that were the politics reversed it would have been much less likely to be called out and that the disruptive comments would have been defended here on the basis that they were "deserved" or whatever...well, I'll agree to that, too. But I won't agree that PP's comments aren't way over the line in the context of AskMe—they are.
Oh, and I also won't agree that the post was faulty. Yes, it's divisive and I think that Milovoo might have done a better job making it clear that this wasn't an op-ed disguised as an AskMe question but was, rather, an earnest question about a practical matter for which he wanted assistance. Nevertheless, there have been and will continue to be questions that have assumptions that are offensive to some segment of the MeFi population. Too bad. A forum for a critique of those assumptions is not the purpose of AskMe.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:28 PM on August 19, 2004
Yes, I see your point, but I think you're still wrong. This is because the content of PP's comments was deliberately disruptive. That makes it relevant. Bottom line: his responses were not written in good faith. He wasn't presenting his contrary political view in good faith, either. He was quite obviously deliberately being provocative because the question offended his politics.
If you want me to agree that, perhaps, there's a bit of a shell game going on with the (justified) outrage at PPs bigoted comment being presented as more generalized and non-partisan outrage...well, I'll agree to that. If you want me to agree that were the politics reversed it would have been much less likely to be called out and that the disruptive comments would have been defended here on the basis that they were "deserved" or whatever...well, I'll agree to that, too. But I won't agree that PP's comments aren't way over the line in the context of AskMe—they are.
Oh, and I also won't agree that the post was faulty. Yes, it's divisive and I think that Milovoo might have done a better job making it clear that this wasn't an op-ed disguised as an AskMe question but was, rather, an earnest question about a practical matter for which he wanted assistance. Nevertheless, there have been and will continue to be questions that have assumptions that are offensive to some segment of the MeFi population. Too bad. A forum for a critique of those assumptions is not the purpose of AskMe.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:28 PM on August 19, 2004
Is there some sort of "you may not ask anything connected with politics" guideline (or future proposed guideline)?
I would like to think that if someone wanted to ask for way doing something of a Republican nature then they would be perfectly free to do so. There certainly are other threads that ask things of a political nature. Although maybe mine was too specific?
posted by milovoo at 3:33 PM on August 19, 2004
I would like to think that if someone wanted to ask for way doing something of a Republican nature then they would be perfectly free to do so. There certainly are other threads that ask things of a political nature. Although maybe mine was too specific?
posted by milovoo at 3:33 PM on August 19, 2004
I didn't think so; but I do think there's definitely a "don't post something political as a question merely as a means for an opportunity to express your opinion" rule. That's been a problem in the past.
But I strongly think that, except for indisputable, egregious cases ("what's the best way to get away with child molestation?"), the assumptions and other implications of the question itself are not open to debate (unless dealing with them is necessary to supplying a helpful answer) (a good example is an answer to a win problem: "get a mac"—that's not helpful). People should be able to ask whatever they want to ask, as long as it's in good faith. I disagree with TGC's position.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2004
But I strongly think that, except for indisputable, egregious cases ("what's the best way to get away with child molestation?"), the assumptions and other implications of the question itself are not open to debate (unless dealing with them is necessary to supplying a helpful answer) (a good example is an answer to a win problem: "get a mac"—that's not helpful). People should be able to ask whatever they want to ask, as long as it's in good faith. I disagree with TGC's position.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2004
Whether or not the post was proper is neither here nor there. The fact is Paris keeps crapping in AxMe threads. This isn't his first time. He needs to stop.
Seriously.
posted by bshort at 3:45 PM on August 19, 2004
Seriously.
posted by bshort at 3:45 PM on August 19, 2004
(a good example is an answer to a win problem: "get a mac"—that's not helpful)
Yup, let me tell you, it took me a long time to get out of that habit.
Oh, and the urge to post "FIRST POST" if I get to a question and there's not
really [more inside], it's hard not to do that as well : )
posted by milovoo at 3:47 PM on August 19, 2004
Yup, let me tell you, it took me a long time to get out of that habit.
Oh, and the urge to post "FIRST POST" if I get to a question and there's not
really [more inside], it's hard not to do that as well : )
posted by milovoo at 3:47 PM on August 19, 2004
How about we observe the Olympic truce for the next couple of weeks and quit the pointless bitching about politics? We all know the giant lizards will win, either way. Come on, it's the only chance you'll get for a long time just to chill out and quit the rhetoric. (Although I'm sure the kind of damn communist internationalism embodied in the Olympic truce would offend PP as well, and he would feel the need to call supporters a bunch of Stalinist sheepshaggers...or something).
posted by Jimbob at 3:50 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Jimbob at 3:50 PM on August 19, 2004
If you want to turn this place into a political forum, then be fully prepared to accept political opinions you don't agree with.
Acceptance doesn't imply embracing.
posted by rushmc at 4:01 PM on August 19, 2004
Acceptance doesn't imply embracing.
posted by rushmc at 4:01 PM on August 19, 2004
except for indisputable, egregious cases
Who gets to decide those cases? Because if it's a personal thing, then PP made his decision and acted on it.
posted by seanyboy at 4:06 PM on August 19, 2004
Who gets to decide those cases? Because if it's a personal thing, then PP made his decision and acted on it.
posted by seanyboy at 4:06 PM on August 19, 2004
Um, contrarian comments don't need to be deragatory and homophobic.
posted by adampsyche at 2:32 PM PST on August 19
Beg to differ: I'm still collecting conservative acquaintances who ain't homophobic [as in it's accepted usage, Seth, Steve et al: we all know you ain't afraid of pooves...] and I haven't run out of fingers yet.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:20 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by adampsyche at 2:32 PM PST on August 19
Beg to differ: I'm still collecting conservative acquaintances who ain't homophobic [as in it's accepted usage, Seth, Steve et al: we all know you ain't afraid of pooves...] and I haven't run out of fingers yet.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:20 PM on August 19, 2004
They don't need to be decided, they're indisputable.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:20 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:20 PM on August 19, 2004
'A forum for a critique of those assumptions is not the purpose of AskMe. posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:28 PM PST on August 19'
Really? What is it's purpose then: I thought it was supposed to be to answer matters of fact, more than of opinion.
'I do think there's definitely a "don't post something political as a question merely as a means for an opportunity to express your opinion" rule.'
This was exactly one of those cases, let's not be naive about it.
'Twas a poor Ask.Me post. We can learn from it.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:27 PM on August 19, 2004
Really? What is it's purpose then: I thought it was supposed to be to answer matters of fact, more than of opinion.
'I do think there's definitely a "don't post something political as a question merely as a means for an opportunity to express your opinion" rule.'
This was exactly one of those cases, let's not be naive about it.
'Twas a poor Ask.Me post. We can learn from it.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:27 PM on August 19, 2004
I don't think it was. And I think you must be misunderstanding the first quote of mine—because your response to it makes no sense to me at all. It seems like a non-sequitor.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:30 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:30 PM on August 19, 2004
The "I don't think it was" was in response to "...let's not be naive about it". Also, incidentally, to the "it's a poor AskMe post". But not specifically. I think Milovoo was earnest.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:33 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:33 PM on August 19, 2004
'I do think there's definitely a "don't post something political as a question merely as a means for an opportunity to express your opinion" rule.'
This was exactly one of those cases, let's not be naive about it.
huh? You think I already have a great list of slogans and I just wanted to fight about stuff. Ooh, that would be crafty, but nope, sorry, bzzzzt, wrong - I just live in NYC and am looking for something worth putting on a sign or a stencil. I have a great respect for the ask.me concept and it seemed like a valid question, sorry if you disagree but you're still wrong about my motives.
posted by milovoo at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
This was exactly one of those cases, let's not be naive about it.
huh? You think I already have a great list of slogans and I just wanted to fight about stuff. Ooh, that would be crafty, but nope, sorry, bzzzzt, wrong - I just live in NYC and am looking for something worth putting on a sign or a stencil. I have a great respect for the ask.me concept and it seemed like a valid question, sorry if you disagree but you're still wrong about my motives.
posted by milovoo at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
Ditto to was dash_slot said.
And to TGC (though he is probably horrified that I am agreeing with him).
I wonder what the response would have been if one has posted, "I am going to an anti-Zionist rally, and I need some really good anti-Jews slogans. Got any?" Or "I am going to a KKK rally, and I need some really good anti-black slogans, Got any?"
I have little doubt that outrage would result from such posts (and rightfully so). But I hope the outrage would be regarding the impropriety of the question vis-a-vis the function of AskMe, as opposed to outrage regarding the content of the question. Alas, this thread suggests otherwise.
What we are getting at is the problem that occurs anytime anything controversial or divisive is introduced: if you accept one action by a person who seeks to advance their agenda, you lose the moral imperative to limit the next person who seeks to advance their agenda---and the next person's agenda may be one you don't like. It is really all or nothing. Anything in between, and the site is open to charges of unfairness, hypocrisy or that it will result in an echo chamber.
And because I do NOT want to see the KKK question, I don't think we should condone this one either.
posted by Seth at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
And to TGC (though he is probably horrified that I am agreeing with him).
I wonder what the response would have been if one has posted, "I am going to an anti-Zionist rally, and I need some really good anti-Jews slogans. Got any?" Or "I am going to a KKK rally, and I need some really good anti-black slogans, Got any?"
I have little doubt that outrage would result from such posts (and rightfully so). But I hope the outrage would be regarding the impropriety of the question vis-a-vis the function of AskMe, as opposed to outrage regarding the content of the question. Alas, this thread suggests otherwise.
What we are getting at is the problem that occurs anytime anything controversial or divisive is introduced: if you accept one action by a person who seeks to advance their agenda, you lose the moral imperative to limit the next person who seeks to advance their agenda---and the next person's agenda may be one you don't like. It is really all or nothing. Anything in between, and the site is open to charges of unfairness, hypocrisy or that it will result in an echo chamber.
And because I do NOT want to see the KKK question, I don't think we should condone this one either.
posted by Seth at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
I just got the impression that some people didn't care for PP's message because of its political implications. And that is wrong.
If you want to turn this place into a political forum, then be fully prepared to accept political opinions you don't agree with.
See, this is where people use the Freedom of Speech thing wrong. The First Amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No where does it say, if you're being an idiot on the internet, people can't call you a twat.
Paris didn't agree with what was being discussed, and other people didn't agree with the way he chose to address those irritations. No one is being oppressed. You however are being a twat.
Seth, I know you like to play Devil's Advocate, but at some point even the Devil is going to beg you to stop being on his side, because you make his side look stupid.
posted by FunkyHelix at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
If you want to turn this place into a political forum, then be fully prepared to accept political opinions you don't agree with.
See, this is where people use the Freedom of Speech thing wrong. The First Amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No where does it say, if you're being an idiot on the internet, people can't call you a twat.
Paris didn't agree with what was being discussed, and other people didn't agree with the way he chose to address those irritations. No one is being oppressed. You however are being a twat.
Seth, I know you like to play Devil's Advocate, but at some point even the Devil is going to beg you to stop being on his side, because you make his side look stupid.
posted by FunkyHelix at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2004
I just live in NYC and am looking for something worth putting on a sign or a stencil.
i suspect milovoo's proclamation of innocence. a simple "fuck dubyuh" would suffice.
posted by quonsar at 4:43 PM on August 19, 2004
i suspect milovoo's proclamation of innocence. a simple "fuck dubyuh" would suffice.
posted by quonsar at 4:43 PM on August 19, 2004
The assumption that milovoo had an ulterior motive or agenda in making his post is baseless. Show me milovoo's history of making political posts, and any instances of him acting like me. : >
The post was no different than a post asking what someone should tell his annoying co-worker or loud neighbor. It's perfectly appropriate, and while i missed whatever shit Paris said, i feel safe in guessing what it was, based on all of his posts in the blue, gray or green. Unlike milovoo, by the way.
The convention is a very very large event happening soon that many many people are preparing for. milovoo wants to be prepared.
posted by amberglow at 5:16 PM on August 19, 2004
The post was no different than a post asking what someone should tell his annoying co-worker or loud neighbor. It's perfectly appropriate, and while i missed whatever shit Paris said, i feel safe in guessing what it was, based on all of his posts in the blue, gray or green. Unlike milovoo, by the way.
The convention is a very very large event happening soon that many many people are preparing for. milovoo wants to be prepared.
posted by amberglow at 5:16 PM on August 19, 2004
And because I do NOT want to see the KKK question, I don't think we should condone this one either.
You're exactly right Seth. I see absolutely no difference between anti-jew slogans for a KKK rally and someone asking for slogan ideas for a republican convention. None at all. None. Zero. Nada. Exactly the same. Not at all an example of extreme hyperbole, nope. Not. At. All.
No, I am not being sarcastic. Not. At. All.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:26 PM on August 19, 2004
You're exactly right Seth. I see absolutely no difference between anti-jew slogans for a KKK rally and someone asking for slogan ideas for a republican convention. None at all. None. Zero. Nada. Exactly the same. Not at all an example of extreme hyperbole, nope. Not. At. All.
No, I am not being sarcastic. Not. At. All.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:26 PM on August 19, 2004
you have to expext someone from the right is going to make a contrarian comment or two in it.
Not on AskMe. Does anyone else still want it to be just about people helping each other out? Not a discussion/wisecrack/argument board?
The same thing would likely happen if a right-winger asked for DNC protest slogans.
I have given in to the occasional good-natured wisecrack in the Green, and even those I feel guilty about. I consider it way off limits to duck in just to say something spiteful.
seanyboy - why are political threads inadviseable? Because they lead to nasty behavior like this? Shouldn't we resist the nasty behavior and not the threads? Looks like that's exactly what Matt did.
posted by scarabic at 5:38 PM on August 19, 2004
Not on AskMe. Does anyone else still want it to be just about people helping each other out? Not a discussion/wisecrack/argument board?
The same thing would likely happen if a right-winger asked for DNC protest slogans.
I have given in to the occasional good-natured wisecrack in the Green, and even those I feel guilty about. I consider it way off limits to duck in just to say something spiteful.
seanyboy - why are political threads inadviseable? Because they lead to nasty behavior like this? Shouldn't we resist the nasty behavior and not the threads? Looks like that's exactly what Matt did.
posted by scarabic at 5:38 PM on August 19, 2004
Not having mathowie's gift for subtle whit, I'd just like to ask Seth:
When the fuck did disdain for a political party/ideology become the same as hatred of a race? Voicing displeasure at Bushco is hate-speech? What's next, Seth, the arrest of Democrats for hate crimes?
Seth, you sir are a world class twit, and a champion of republican apologetics ... whether you agree with them or not.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:42 PM on August 19, 2004
When the fuck did disdain for a political party/ideology become the same as hatred of a race? Voicing displeasure at Bushco is hate-speech? What's next, Seth, the arrest of Democrats for hate crimes?
Seth, you sir are a world class twit, and a champion of republican apologetics ... whether you agree with them or not.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:42 PM on August 19, 2004
BTW, my absolutely irrelevant take is this: milovoo was asking a legitimate question because he knew that this site would be a good resource. Of course, the fact that the thread would be full of Bush-bashing was just a "coincidental" plus. Yeah right.
If it were phrased like this: "I've seen some great political bumper stickers this season and wanted to create my own. What would you recommend?"
Then I think that the thread would have been a lot more fun, more useful, and more inclusive of "non-Dems". But ParisParamus was out of line. Kinda funny in a really stupid way, but I chuckled. Foldy style baby.
posted by BlueTrain at 5:44 PM on August 19, 2004
If it were phrased like this: "I've seen some great political bumper stickers this season and wanted to create my own. What would you recommend?"
Then I think that the thread would have been a lot more fun, more useful, and more inclusive of "non-Dems". But ParisParamus was out of line. Kinda funny in a really stupid way, but I chuckled. Foldy style baby.
posted by BlueTrain at 5:44 PM on August 19, 2004
Thread was a bit embarrassing because it revealed a need to be "told what to think" - if you've got issues with Dubya, be smart enough to voice them yourself, and don't rely on others to do your thinking and come up with slogans. When was the last time a slogan changed history?
PP was just embarrassing, full-stop.
posted by Jimbob at 5:52 PM on August 19, 2004
PP was just embarrassing, full-stop.
posted by Jimbob at 5:52 PM on August 19, 2004
...be smart enough to voice them yourself, and don't rely on others to do your thinking and come up with slogans. When was the last time a slogan changed history?
But people who otherwise can voice their concerns often can't distill them down to a slogan/soundbite. (see Kerry, John).
And i'd say "the whole world is watching" is the last really big one. (and has continuing importance, esp. concerning the RNC and media coverage of it.)
posted by amberglow at 5:56 PM on August 19, 2004
But people who otherwise can voice their concerns often can't distill them down to a slogan/soundbite. (see Kerry, John).
And i'd say "the whole world is watching" is the last really big one. (and has continuing importance, esp. concerning the RNC and media coverage of it.)
posted by amberglow at 5:56 PM on August 19, 2004
Not on AskMe. Does anyone else still want it to be just about people helping each other out? Not a discussion/wisecrack/argument board?
Let's say, for example, that someone posted something along these lines: John Kerry would be an awful president because he's a flip-flopper and he's weak on terrorism. I'd like someone to give me bullet points to back this up so I can smack down my liberal friends.
Do you think Democratic supporters would respond to this or just ignore it in the interest of the site? I can tell you I'd probably ignore it, since I usually ignore these political threads in the green, but I can say with a good deal of certainty that I think at least three or four people would respond in manner contrary to the intent of the person asking the question.
Then again, I'm already on record saying I thought PP's continued behaviour was idiotic and deserved to be deleted, so I don't even know why I'm arguing about this anymore. Politik away.
posted by The God Complex at 6:03 PM on August 19, 2004
Let's say, for example, that someone posted something along these lines: John Kerry would be an awful president because he's a flip-flopper and he's weak on terrorism. I'd like someone to give me bullet points to back this up so I can smack down my liberal friends.
Do you think Democratic supporters would respond to this or just ignore it in the interest of the site? I can tell you I'd probably ignore it, since I usually ignore these political threads in the green, but I can say with a good deal of certainty that I think at least three or four people would respond in manner contrary to the intent of the person asking the question.
Then again, I'm already on record saying I thought PP's continued behaviour was idiotic and deserved to be deleted, so I don't even know why I'm arguing about this anymore. Politik away.
posted by The God Complex at 6:03 PM on August 19, 2004
I've just had a look at ParisParamus's AskMe history. It honestly isn't that bad (though of course I wasn't looking at today's garbage or other things Matt may have deleted). He's usually well behaved when it comes to straightforward questions, especially when they are technical. He comes up with some off the wall responses for open-ended political discussion questions, but that's allowable. Out of 37 answers, I thought only this qualified as a crap answer that should have been deleted, because it doesn't answer the question at all and may only be an attempt to start a discussion and/or a deliberate attempt to inflame.
posted by orange swan at 6:15 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by orange swan at 6:15 PM on August 19, 2004
Can someone explain to me again why we don't ban political troll-bait in AskMe?
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:36 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:36 PM on August 19, 2004
And because I do NOT want to see the KKK question, I don't think we should condone this one either.
That's ridiculous. He (?) specifically asked for slogans to counter the POLICIES of the current administration. Wanting to express the view that someone exercises bad judgment based upon a misguided philosophy is in no way analogous to insulting someone because of their ethnicity.
posted by rushmc at 7:15 PM on August 19, 2004
That's ridiculous. He (?) specifically asked for slogans to counter the POLICIES of the current administration. Wanting to express the view that someone exercises bad judgment based upon a misguided philosophy is in no way analogous to insulting someone because of their ethnicity.
posted by rushmc at 7:15 PM on August 19, 2004
What is clear from this thread is that opinion is divided as to whether or not that Post was troll-bait or not. It is doubt ful whether, as TGC suggests, the mirror post pro-Republican would not also have attracted snarks, facetious answers and complaints.
Seriously: is that so hard to see?
And Seth: please listen to FunkyHelix. It's hard to argue this corner when you want to go and invent bizarre, out of touch analogies. Why is the mirror of a pro-Democrat post gonna be racist? Huh? Anyway, as an exercise, here is what I would call the apt mirror image post:
I just don't like to see it on Ask.me.
posted by dash_slot- at 7:16 PM on August 19, 2004
Seriously: is that so hard to see?
And Seth: please listen to FunkyHelix. It's hard to argue this corner when you want to go and invent bizarre, out of touch analogies. Why is the mirror of a pro-Democrat post gonna be racist? Huh? Anyway, as an exercise, here is what I would call the apt mirror image post:
Does anyone have suggestions for short, articulate protest slogans for the DNC?EB: I clearly did misunderstand some thing of what you said. Still, my second point stands, I feel. I am sure that milovoo was earnest - as many political activists can be [not that he comes off as one of those, professionally] - I am all for peaceful, democratic, political activism, of all stripes.
posted by oovolim at 1:20 PM PSTI'm looking for short phrases that can be displayed on a sign or stencil that encapsulate some of the major disagreements and complaints against the Democratic platform, or sites with lists of the same. Preferably TV friendly and not too bilious. I'm not looking to debate any issues in this thread, just slogans, please. (if you feel the need to get your snark on, please re-read the question, count to 10, and limit your response to helpful suggestions)
posted by oovolim at 1:22 PM PST on August 19
I just don't like to see it on Ask.me.
posted by dash_slot- at 7:16 PM on August 19, 2004
If ParisParamus were to parade in Mecca flanked by topless thong-wearing Playboy bunnies riding atop a heard of swine whilst cooking bacon, pork chops and sausage, singing, as loud as he could, "Allah, Allah oxen free!" through mouthfulls of the Koran he was chewing on,
he'd be more popular in the homes of Muslims everywhere than he is at Metafilter. And more considerate.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:40 PM on August 19, 2004
he'd be more popular in the homes of Muslims everywhere than he is at Metafilter. And more considerate.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:40 PM on August 19, 2004
I am all for peaceful, democratic, political activism, of all stripes.
I just don't like to see it on Ask.me.
Free the AskMe One! Free the AskMe One!
2, 4, 6, 8! Contested posts make us irate!
*sits, organizes sit-in, protesting the bantustanization(?) of Metafilter's glorious free-speech paradise*
good one, eustace (but i think he'd be peeing on or humping the koran)
posted by amberglow at 7:45 PM on August 19, 2004
I just don't like to see it on Ask.me.
Free the AskMe One! Free the AskMe One!
2, 4, 6, 8! Contested posts make us irate!
*sits, organizes sit-in, protesting the bantustanization(?) of Metafilter's glorious free-speech paradise*
good one, eustace (but i think he'd be peeing on or humping the koran)
posted by amberglow at 7:45 PM on August 19, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
Where's the beef?
posted by ODiV at 7:51 PM on August 19, 2004
Where's the beef?
posted by ODiV at 7:51 PM on August 19, 2004
This Ask Me question just screamed out for a snark or two. Your set up a forum to dump all over Bush and the GOP and then expect the conservatives to stay away? Please, as The God Complex said, if the tables had been turned the liberals would never have stayed away. Matt should have left PP's comment (even despite the homo comment).
posted by caddis at 8:04 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by caddis at 8:04 PM on August 19, 2004
Nice one, amberglow.
Actually, there's tons of laughs in this thread and the one which spawned it. My fave is seanyboys "fucking countries, not interns"
- uh-oh, nearly jinxed it by saying something blase about 'see, we can do confl*ct well on Mefi'.
Do you know how hard it is to type with your fingers crossed?
on preview:
Matt should have left PP's comment (even despite the homo comment).
posted by caddis at 8:04 PM PST on August 19
Nah: I never saw it, and I'm glad. The whole thread shoulda gone. Matt just pulled his finger from the dyke.
As it were.
posted by dash_slot- at 8:12 PM on August 19, 2004
Actually, there's tons of laughs in this thread and the one which spawned it. My fave is seanyboys "fucking countries, not interns"
- uh-oh, nearly jinxed it by saying something blase about 'see, we can do confl*ct well on Mefi'.
Do you know how hard it is to type with your fingers crossed?
on preview:
Matt should have left PP's comment (even despite the homo comment).
posted by caddis at 8:04 PM PST on August 19
Nah: I never saw it, and I'm glad. The whole thread shoulda gone. Matt just pulled his finger from the dyke.
As it were.
posted by dash_slot- at 8:12 PM on August 19, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
"No taxation without representation."
posted by four panels at 8:25 PM on August 19, 2004
"No taxation without representation."
posted by four panels at 8:25 PM on August 19, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
"Deus lo volt!"
posted by four panels at 8:30 PM on August 19, 2004
"Deus lo volt!"
posted by four panels at 8:30 PM on August 19, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
"Jobs jobs jobs!"
posted by philfromhavelock at 9:21 PM on August 19, 2004
"Jobs jobs jobs!"
posted by philfromhavelock at 9:21 PM on August 19, 2004
Do you think Democratic supporters would respond to this or just ignore it in the interest of the site? I can tell you I'd probably ignore it
I certainly would too, and I think that would be a good call on our part, though I don't have any problem with Kerry-lovers brainstorming in the Green.
but I can say with a good deal of certainty that I think at least three or four people would respond in manner contrary to the intent of the person asking the question.
I'm sure you're right. They wouldn't be helping the questioner, though, and I wouldn't defend them any more just because they were liberals. I don't want to be unrealistic about what to expect from people. But I think "answers or help in finding an answer" is a good rule for all of us.
posted by scarabic at 9:26 PM on August 19, 2004
I certainly would too, and I think that would be a good call on our part, though I don't have any problem with Kerry-lovers brainstorming in the Green.
but I can say with a good deal of certainty that I think at least three or four people would respond in manner contrary to the intent of the person asking the question.
I'm sure you're right. They wouldn't be helping the questioner, though, and I wouldn't defend them any more just because they were liberals. I don't want to be unrealistic about what to expect from people. But I think "answers or help in finding an answer" is a good rule for all of us.
posted by scarabic at 9:26 PM on August 19, 2004
I've been getting silly in AskMe. I think I shall cut it back.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:41 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 9:41 PM on August 19, 2004
Free speech, as long as you agree with me.
I think there should be an exception to the free speech rule for god awfully annoying and incessant whiners. with maybe a bonus penalty for people who feel the need to be eternally oppressed.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:52 PM on August 19, 2004
I think there should be an exception to the free speech rule for god awfully annoying and incessant whiners. with maybe a bonus penalty for people who feel the need to be eternally oppressed.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:52 PM on August 19, 2004
I'm just picturing american revolutionaries or first crusaders walking around yelling and holding up No Blood For Oil posters.
posted by Jimbob at 10:38 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Jimbob at 10:38 PM on August 19, 2004
Can someone explain to me again why we don't ban political troll-bait in AskMe?
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:36 PM PST on August 19
Can someone explain to me again why we don't ban political troll-bait on all of MetaFilter?
posted by jmd82 at 10:40 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:36 PM PST on August 19
Can someone explain to me again why we don't ban political troll-bait on all of MetaFilter?
posted by jmd82 at 10:40 PM on August 19, 2004
Never read the deleted comment, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to tolerate a few politically charged threads in AskMe (with the possible exception of utter idiocy to the tune of "what hole should Bush/Kerry be fucked in?"), on the condition that whoever posts or participates in such threads be prepared to tolerate a few jabs from the opposing camp.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:58 PM on August 19, 2004
posted by Krrrlson at 10:58 PM on August 19, 2004
I'm just picturing american revolutionaries or first crusaders walking around yelling and holding up No Blood For Oil posters.
I seem to recall a bit of indian-costumed weirdness with some tea.
posted by milovoo at 10:59 PM on August 19, 2004
I seem to recall a bit of indian-costumed weirdness with some tea.
posted by milovoo at 10:59 PM on August 19, 2004
As in the past, I think the best guide to what makes a good AskMe post is whether you've actually got a problem to solve or not. If you're showing up to a protest and you're pulling a blank on sign slogans, you've got a problem. If you could probably think of one, but you're hoping the collective MeFi mind might come up with something better that will make you uber-cool with all the dreadlocked hippie chicks, then... I guess you've still got a problem, but it's too big to solve on AskMe.
The pure opinion polls like "who should I vote for?" are really just discussion topics with a question mark for a tail, and should be yanked.
posted by scarabic at 11:55 PM on August 19, 2004
The pure opinion polls like "who should I vote for?" are really just discussion topics with a question mark for a tail, and should be yanked.
posted by scarabic at 11:55 PM on August 19, 2004
Shorter PP apologism:
It's OK to be an ass because someone else will probably be one in the future.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:45 AM on August 20, 2004
It's OK to be an ass because someone else will probably be one in the future.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:45 AM on August 20, 2004
Unless the government is now running MetaFilter, what has any of this got to do with free speech?
posted by normy at 4:41 AM on August 20, 2004
posted by normy at 4:41 AM on August 20, 2004
I disagree entirely. I think Finish What You Started is actually one of Van Halen's best songs, but I am not a Hagar-hater either. You elitest bastards.
posted by bargle at 5:05 AM on August 20, 2004
posted by bargle at 5:05 AM on August 20, 2004
Unless the government is now running MetaFilter, what has any of this got to do with free speech?
Thank you. MeFi is private property.
posted by adampsyche at 7:28 AM on August 20, 2004
Thank you. MeFi is private property.
posted by adampsyche at 7:28 AM on August 20, 2004
Unless the government is now running MetaFilter, what has any of this got to do with free speech?
and
Thank you. MeFi is private property.
Metafilter: Censor all opposing views just because we (He) can, and they are so inconvenient anyway.
posted by caddis at 7:43 AM on August 20, 2004
and
Thank you. MeFi is private property.
Metafilter: Censor all opposing views just because we (He) can, and they are so inconvenient anyway.
posted by caddis at 7:43 AM on August 20, 2004
So is deleting double posts a violation of free speech, caddis? It's against the MeFi rules, just like being disruptive in ask.me is. What's the difference?
posted by Space Coyote at 8:07 AM on August 20, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 8:07 AM on August 20, 2004
What's the fuss about? milovoo asked a sincere question in AskMe. I tend to think milovoo has a practical use for the answers. PP jumped in and did not answer the question, he just got ticked off and lost it and spewed.
AskMe is for answers. C'est tout.
posted by Shane at 8:49 AM on August 20, 2004
AskMe is for answers. C'est tout.
posted by Shane at 8:49 AM on August 20, 2004
PP can have any opinions he wants, but there's something to be said for voicing them appropriately.
Him commenting in that thread would be like someone posting a thread about fixing their carburetor and some militant auto-free activists piping up and cursing the automobiles existence. Again valid opinion but there's a time and place for everything.
And AskMe is supposed to be about useful info before it's about anything else so this shit just chums the waters.
posted by jonmc at 8:50 AM on August 20, 2004
Him commenting in that thread would be like someone posting a thread about fixing their carburetor and some militant auto-free activists piping up and cursing the automobiles existence. Again valid opinion but there's a time and place for everything.
And AskMe is supposed to be about useful info before it's about anything else so this shit just chums the waters.
posted by jonmc at 8:50 AM on August 20, 2004
Only so many songs can be sung
With two lips, two lungs and one tongue
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:11 AM on August 20, 2004
With two lips, two lungs and one tongue
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:11 AM on August 20, 2004
Him commenting in that thread would be like someone posting a thread about fixing their carburetor and some militant auto-free activists piping up and cursing the automobiles existence.
You're right, except for that part where you're not ;)
I'm still wondering why someone would ask other people for help picking out a two or three world slogan. I mean, doesn't it sort of wreck "the cool" when someone's like "man, that sign is awesome" and then world peace occurs and you're like "yeah, I asked some people on the internet because I couldn't come up with anything; they're the real ghandis."
posted by The God Complex at 9:17 AM on August 20, 2004
You're right, except for that part where you're not ;)
I'm still wondering why someone would ask other people for help picking out a two or three world slogan. I mean, doesn't it sort of wreck "the cool" when someone's like "man, that sign is awesome" and then world peace occurs and you're like "yeah, I asked some people on the internet because I couldn't come up with anything; they're the real ghandis."
posted by The God Complex at 9:17 AM on August 20, 2004
I'm still wondering why someone would ask other people for help picking out a two or three world slogan. I mean, doesn't it sort of wreck "the cool" when someone's like "man, that sign is awesome" and then world peace occurs and you're like "yeah, I asked some people on the internet because I couldn't come up with anything; they're the real ghandis."
Oh, fuck off, already. You fuckin' young 'uns, assuming off the get-go that "anger = fashion statement" are nearly enough to make an old ethical straight-edger™ like me puke.
Or something.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:24 AM on August 20, 2004
Oh, fuck off, already. You fuckin' young 'uns, assuming off the get-go that "anger = fashion statement" are nearly enough to make an old ethical straight-edger™ like me puke.
Or something.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:24 AM on August 20, 2004
...doesn't it sort of wreck "the cool" when someone's like "man, that sign is awesome" and then world peace occurs and you're like...
Only if you're so not-cool that you're concerned about how cool you are.
Should we do "I'm rubber, you're glue" now, you know, before recess is over?
posted by milovoo at 9:35 AM on August 20, 2004
Only if you're so not-cool that you're concerned about how cool you are.
Should we do "I'm rubber, you're glue" now, you know, before recess is over?
posted by milovoo at 9:35 AM on August 20, 2004
Hey, I call dibs on The Real Gandhis as the name of my new terrorist group. We'll hang around the Circle-K and, like, cuss and stuff. It'll be rad.
And Stav, come off it. You're about as straight-edge as Dean friggin' Martin. Now get back in this bar and buy me a drink, or I'll get all non-violent on your ass.
posted by chicobangs at 9:57 AM on August 20, 2004
And Stav, come off it. You're about as straight-edge as Dean friggin' Martin. Now get back in this bar and buy me a drink, or I'll get all non-violent on your ass.
posted by chicobangs at 9:57 AM on August 20, 2004
I'm still wondering why someone would ask other people for help picking out a two or three world slogan.
Oh, come off it. I don't know how serious you are (always a problem around here), but obviously some people are better than others at coming up with slogans (I, for instance, am lousy at it) and it makes perfect sense to ask the MeFi community for help, just as I ask for help with, say, mortgage issues because I know jack shit about it and other MeFites know a lot more.
a two or three world slogan
You mean like "Fuck the Third World"?
posted by languagehat at 10:13 AM on August 20, 2004
Oh, come off it. I don't know how serious you are (always a problem around here), but obviously some people are better than others at coming up with slogans (I, for instance, am lousy at it) and it makes perfect sense to ask the MeFi community for help, just as I ask for help with, say, mortgage issues because I know jack shit about it and other MeFites know a lot more.
a two or three world slogan
You mean like "Fuck the Third World"?
posted by languagehat at 10:13 AM on August 20, 2004
Alcohol is not incompatible with an ethical life, he over-intensely tapped out key-by-key, as he listened to 'Nighthawks At The Diner', all gooned-up on Soju and Orange on a Friday night.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:14 AM on August 20, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:14 AM on August 20, 2004
I love to chew the fat with folks
and listen to all your dirty jokes
I'm so thankful for these friends
I do receive
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:15 AM on August 20, 2004
and listen to all your dirty jokes
I'm so thankful for these friends
I do receive
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:15 AM on August 20, 2004
Only so many songs can be sung
With two lips, two lungs and one tongue
I'm not really paying attention to this thread anymore, but I think I'm on whichever side quotes NoMeansNo.
posted by freebird at 10:29 AM on August 20, 2004
With two lips, two lungs and one tongue
I'm not really paying attention to this thread anymore, but I think I'm on whichever side quotes NoMeansNo.
posted by freebird at 10:29 AM on August 20, 2004
Nomeansno stood up my ex-wife on a promised appearance on a radio she produced for Vancouver's COOP. So, I'm not on the side of who quotes them.
Er, well, I'm not on my ex-wife's side anymore, so. Hmm. Complexities...
Okay, I'm with stav.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:33 AM on August 20, 2004
Er, well, I'm not on my ex-wife's side anymore, so. Hmm. Complexities...
Okay, I'm with stav.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:33 AM on August 20, 2004
I mean, don't you have to be on the side of anyone who can get "Madness! Madness! Madness and death!" stuck in your head as a catchy ditty?
Actually, I'm a Political Science Major.
posted by freebird at 10:40 AM on August 20, 2004
Actually, I'm a Political Science Major.
posted by freebird at 10:40 AM on August 20, 2004
Damn, and I was sure you were a litcrit major.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:51 AM on August 20, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:51 AM on August 20, 2004
If every fourth animal in the world is a beetle
Perhaps every fourth person is a DUMB FUCK!
posted by alex_reno at 11:33 AM on August 20, 2004
Perhaps every fourth person is a DUMB FUCK!
posted by alex_reno at 11:33 AM on August 20, 2004
I'm not really paying attention to this thread anymore, but I think I'm on whichever side quotes NoMeansNo.
Absolutely.
posted by adampsyche at 11:34 AM on August 20, 2004
Absolutely.
posted by adampsyche at 11:34 AM on August 20, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
54'40" or Fight!?
posted by Mitheral at 11:55 AM on August 20, 2004
54'40" or Fight!?
posted by Mitheral at 11:55 AM on August 20, 2004
When was the last time a slogan changed history?
Developers developers developers!
posted by kindall at 12:27 PM on August 20, 2004
Developers developers developers!
posted by kindall at 12:27 PM on August 20, 2004
It was a dumb question with dumb answers. The question should have been deleted, not his comments, but that's not going to happen. And this would have been even worse had a conservative asked the question.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 12:32 PM on August 20, 2004
posted by Dennis Murphy at 12:32 PM on August 20, 2004
stavros made me smile
[low gust of wind from scarabic's bedroom]
posted by scarabic at 12:47 PM on August 20, 2004
[low gust of wind from scarabic's bedroom]
posted by scarabic at 12:47 PM on August 20, 2004
Oh, come off it. I don't know how serious you are (always a problem around here), but obviously some people are better than others at coming up with slogans (I, for instance, am lousy at it) and it makes perfect sense to ask the MeFi community for help, just as I ask for help with, say, mortgage issues because I know jack shit about it and other MeFites know a lot more.
I was just having a bit of fun. If I ever use "the real ghandis" while trying to make a point (except this one), then you can string me up by my wrists.
That said, I do find the reliance on sloganeering in political discourse, particularly American, to be somewhat disappointing. So much of mainstream political discourse ignores the substance of what's said and instead talks about the "overall message" that came from the speech, which usually means the talking heads regurgitate in great detail whatever boring turn of phrase was repeated the most by the brains behind the speeches. I was kinda hoping metafilter would turn the corner on that. I mean, obviously you're not going to write an essay on a placard, but a simple message is just as strong and possibly more effective than most of the clever ones that people come up with. Then people are actually paying attention to the message and not giving you a stavros golf clap for your witticisms.
posted by The God Complex at 1:17 PM on August 20, 2004
I was just having a bit of fun. If I ever use "the real ghandis" while trying to make a point (except this one), then you can string me up by my wrists.
That said, I do find the reliance on sloganeering in political discourse, particularly American, to be somewhat disappointing. So much of mainstream political discourse ignores the substance of what's said and instead talks about the "overall message" that came from the speech, which usually means the talking heads regurgitate in great detail whatever boring turn of phrase was repeated the most by the brains behind the speeches. I was kinda hoping metafilter would turn the corner on that. I mean, obviously you're not going to write an essay on a placard, but a simple message is just as strong and possibly more effective than most of the clever ones that people come up with. Then people are actually paying attention to the message and not giving you a stavros golf clap for your witticisms.
posted by The God Complex at 1:17 PM on August 20, 2004
"Tippecanoe and Tyler Too!"
Actually, I don't know how well that worked. "I Like Ike!" was pretty effective, though.
The worst sloganeering, though, is when people chant "What do we want? Anarcho-syndicalism [or whatever]! When do we want it? Now!" It's really hard to organize the tempo, and it always sounds ragged.
Oh, let's not forget "Votes for Women!" That worked pretty well.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:38 PM on August 20, 2004
Actually, I don't know how well that worked. "I Like Ike!" was pretty effective, though.
The worst sloganeering, though, is when people chant "What do we want? Anarcho-syndicalism [or whatever]! When do we want it? Now!" It's really hard to organize the tempo, and it always sounds ragged.
Oh, let's not forget "Votes for Women!" That worked pretty well.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:38 PM on August 20, 2004
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle"--that one taught me that they can be deep as well as funny, ages ago.
posted by amberglow at 2:48 PM on August 20, 2004
posted by amberglow at 2:48 PM on August 20, 2004
The God Complex: Ah, righty-ho. Then I agree with you.
amberglow: That's one of my favorites too.
posted by languagehat at 3:08 PM on August 20, 2004
amberglow: That's one of my favorites too.
posted by languagehat at 3:08 PM on August 20, 2004
here's a quiz where you have to match the slogan to the president, showing it's not a recent thing at all. (some really hard ones--"Full-dinner pail"???)
posted by amberglow at 4:38 PM on August 20, 2004
posted by amberglow at 4:38 PM on August 20, 2004
"Return to normalcy." I had forgotten that one.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:49 PM on August 20, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:49 PM on August 20, 2004
Would somebody be so kind as to allow those of us who didn't see ParisParamus' offending comment the opportunity to see it?
posted by davidmsc at 8:20 PM on August 20, 2004
posted by davidmsc at 8:20 PM on August 20, 2004
I mean, obviously you're not going to write an essay on a placard, but a simple message is just as strong and possibly more effective than most of the clever ones that people come up with.
That's what I was looking for, did that not get communicated correctly? (i.e. "short" and "articulate") Should I have not used the word "slogan"?
posted by milovoo at 12:36 AM on August 21, 2004
That's what I was looking for, did that not get communicated correctly? (i.e. "short" and "articulate") Should I have not used the word "slogan"?
posted by milovoo at 12:36 AM on August 21, 2004
.
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle"--that one taught me that they can be deep as well as funny, ages ago.
Possibly in response, a few years back Guinness made an advert with a fish on a bicycle and made it available as a download screensaver. It's kinda fun. The Guinness spots and many other fish on bikes (and trikes) are available HERE.
"Man needs Religion like a fish needs a bicycle"
Vique's Law
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"
Irina Dunn
No, not Gloria Steinem, although she is often credited with the phrase.
Not U2 either (Throwin' Your Arms Around the World off Achtung Baby). Long time after.
I ♥ Fish on bikes (and trikes).
Off topic? Hell no, as this brings me to my vegetarian slogan:
"Fish-N-Bikes, not Fish-N-Chips!"
It's not much good, no one gets it, and I never use it.
posted by Shane at 10:04 AM on August 21, 2004
(By Possibly in response, I guess I meant Possibly in response to Bono's popularizing the phrase in a U2 song.)
posted by Shane at 10:16 AM on August 21, 2004
posted by Shane at 10:16 AM on August 21, 2004
A haricut, Shane? Where exactly are you cutting?
Thanks for the fishcycle link (as opposed to a fish-sicle, another vegetarian meme).
And now, my latest hip-hop hit: "Babe, You Be My Tuna and I'll Be Your Bicycle Seat" (using samples from Queen's "Bicycle Song")...
But, returning to the original topic, Steve's "BU$HITLER" must be at least a quadruple entendre... I avoid Godwinning as much as posible, having a last name that rhymes with Hitler.
posted by wendell at 1:05 PM on August 21, 2004
Thanks for the fishcycle link (as opposed to a fish-sicle, another vegetarian meme).
And now, my latest hip-hop hit: "Babe, You Be My Tuna and I'll Be Your Bicycle Seat" (using samples from Queen's "Bicycle Song")...
But, returning to the original topic, Steve's "BU$HITLER" must be at least a quadruple entendre... I avoid Godwinning as much as posible, having a last name that rhymes with Hitler.
posted by wendell at 1:05 PM on August 21, 2004
A haricut, Shane?
Hm. Either I'm committing seppuka or my dan tien needs a trim.
posted by Shane at 8:21 PM on August 21, 2004
Hm. Either I'm committing seppuka or my dan tien needs a trim.
posted by Shane at 8:21 PM on August 21, 2004
If anyone is still reading this thread, I am sorry for having precipitated. My remarks were not intended to offend anyone (just shock a little); they were both a bit excessive, and inappropriate for AskMefi.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:21 AM on August 24, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 8:21 AM on August 24, 2004
(precipitated that thread)
posted by ParisParamus at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2004
so ..........uh......what happened to the 17k ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:04 PM on August 25, 2004
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:04 PM on August 25, 2004
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
"BU$HITLER" is a personal favorite.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 2:18 PM PST on August 19
Steve, even if that was your favorite, does it serve any point (constructive of defeating President Bush) to announcing it?
Just keep it up, and you'll be living another four years under GW--oh, the Hell....
The most objective proof of the emptyness of the Left's take on President is stuff like this. Unbelievable.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:26 PM PST on August 19
posted by COBRA! at 2:28 PM on August 19, 2004