Mathowie called out re full text of Bush acceptance speech

September 2, 2004 8:25 PM

Just to be clear: the point of MetaFilter is to find the best and most interesting of the web to share with others.
Does this really count as part of that? The post title isn't exactly encouraging level-headed discussion either.
posted by fvw to etiquette/policy at 8:25 PM (79 comments total)

I killed a lame post to a day-old op-ed article, but everyone seemed to enjoy talking about the speech in progress. So I found the full text, read through it and thought "you can't normally find the full text of those speeches" and posted it.

So there.
posted by mathowie at 8:27 PM on September 2, 2004

So you've consigned yourself to MetaFilter becoming a current-events discussion board?
posted by fvw at 8:32 PM on September 2, 2004

I agree. Full text speeches are, if not best of the web, at least the better. Think of the context, for example, that reading Kerry's testimony before Congress, gives the allegation that Kerry turned on his fellow veterans as war criminals.

Media is too often soundbite. Speechlength gives something more, even if speeches are sometimes little more than op-eds.
posted by weston at 8:33 PM on September 2, 2004

True, full-text speeches are useful and good. However, either this speech was so extremely special it merrited a front-page post and all the other similar speeches don't, or seeing a speech transcribed on the web is interesting in concept and thus a post about it is fun, not so much about this speech but because the idea is interesting. Neither are true.

MetaFilter: The Rest of the Web.
posted by fvw at 8:37 PM on September 2, 2004

Folks, this is like trying to not have a post to talk about Star Wars after Episode I came out. Some things are going to be inevitably posted whether you like it or not. Whatever.
posted by Stan Chin at 8:44 PM on September 2, 2004

I throw up in my mouth a little every time someone says "Is this really the best of the web"? It makes us sound pretentious and silly. I liked your old school"interesting things on the web, that most people haven't already seen, that may be interesting to discuss" model. I think "Best" is code for "Not too much Newsfilter, please", but it has some unfortunate tonal consequences. I mean, we are not Yahoo! top sites here, nor should we be.
posted by crunchburger at 8:46 PM on September 2, 2004

previously discussed. I thought seeing Bush's UN Speech was cool, but not everyone felt the same way.

Maybe it could be a better post by comparing other speeches -- Kerry's speech for comparison?
posted by namespan at 9:11 PM on September 2, 2004

Holy crap, you called out mathowie. That's bold, dude.
posted by Evstar at 9:20 PM on September 2, 2004

BOOSH
posted by angry modem at 9:24 PM on September 2, 2004

I throw up in my mouth a little every time

ewwwwwwwwwwwwww! rinse and spite (sic), dude!
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:38 PM on September 2, 2004

I'm with fvw. The thread has already degenerated into nonsense (with about a quarter coming from two people). Yikes!
posted by loquax at 9:43 PM on September 2, 2004

It's pretty traditional to write about these things here. Part of a community is discussing stuff that's going on, and you shouldn't always need the excuse of finding a "new" or "interesting" way of doing that all time. For instance, after the debates, I look forward to coming here and finding out what everyone thought, though there's less tolerance here for discussing issues than ever before.
posted by xammerboy at 9:50 PM on September 2, 2004

though there's less tolerance here for discussing issues than ever before.

That's the thing. There can be no 'discussion' in a thread like that. Few are even discussing the speech itself. It's oneupmanship with witty anti-Bush quips and a recycling of all the old arguments. Why bother?

Oh, and I did think the "War starts with a W" thing was a bit much too.

And Peter H! 18/130 comments! Wow! Wait, make that 19! No, 20! He wins - he hates Bush the most.
posted by loquax at 9:57 PM on September 2, 2004

I haven't seen the whole speech yet, so please no one spoil it and tell me how it ends.
posted by dhoyt at 9:58 PM on September 2, 2004

dhoyt, it's just like Annie except she's a whore and in prison.
posted by WolfDaddy at 10:04 PM on September 2, 2004

F.O.S.

Hey, wait, that wasn't a Sethplaint! Goddamn, it's like a virus, spreading from luser to whinging luser!
posted by five fresh fish at 10:12 PM on September 2, 2004

Hey, wait, that wasn't a Sethplaint!

No, but we do have this:

Man, I wish Matt would allow MeFites to just ignore and not have to read ridiculous garbage from people like techgnollic, bob sarabia and Paris.

Please, Matt, please?

I said this in the thread, and I'll say it again: Matt, please don't do this to poor fenriq. Let him ignore their comments.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:17 PM on September 2, 2004

Also, if the current level of discourse in the thread keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised if it got deleted.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:24 PM on September 2, 2004

What.
The.
Fuck.
Matt?

*cries*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:28 PM on September 2, 2004

Matt basically picked the only acceptable link that could be related to such an event (instead of, say, a fucking maureen dowd column) and pre-emptively posted that to avoid the rush of other potentially awful posts.

Probably a good move. But reading Bush's 2000 speech and comparing it with this year's is the most interesting part of the whole tihng for me.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:16 PM on September 2, 2004

To be honest, I think that a major speech by the PotUS at a major political event in an election year is interesting enough to be posted here.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 11:17 PM on September 2, 2004

How do you figure you can get away with calling out the owner of the site? Jeez louise, the balls. I'm sure you could've found a perfectly objectionable post by someone else to wet your panties about in the morning.
posted by kjh at 12:59 AM on September 3, 2004

Also, if the current level of discourse in the thread keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised if it got deleted.

Has Matt got the balls to delete his own thread?
posted by SpaceCadet at 1:25 AM on September 3, 2004

Heh heh. I'm so happy to see this callout. As soon as I saw (and painlessly skipped over) the thread in question, I wanted to post a sarcastic callout on MeTa. However, I've nowhere near the MetaCred to pull something like that. Now it's been done (albeit without tripping my sarcasm detector) for me!
posted by stet at 1:28 AM on September 3, 2004

In my opinion, the link is fine. However, I don't like the op/ed Bush is going to win bit. O.K. as a comment, but not really in an FPP.
posted by johnny novak at 1:46 AM on September 3, 2004

I thought this was a cunning pre-emptive move. Judging by the amount of comment (and lack elsewhere) it worked. Thank God.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:59 AM on September 3, 2004

Somewhere in a room illuminated only with a blue monitor glow, Seth is having a coronary.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:11 AM on September 3, 2004

Admittedly, I have a certain expectation as to the quality of a post, perhaps unfairly, when it's offered by Matt. A bit of spare logic in me just assumes Matt, of all people, will know and choose to consistently excercise what it means to properly post a topic to MetaFilter. I look to him to lead by example... which seems reasonable to me, since this is his site and he made up the "rules". In this case Matt, I think you've fallen far short of that expectation. While the post may have provided for a "one-stop shopping" Bush thread for the front page, as Space Coyote suggested (which I agree is a good thing), it just lacks any class in my opinion.

I think the post would have been sufficient with just "The full text of George W Bush's acceptance speech". The title is terrible and NOT helpful.

"I feel less safe now than I was before", says Matt. Oh really? How about you let me read it first and THEN you can tell me how you feel.

Mediocre starts with M.
posted by Witty at 2:16 AM on September 3, 2004

To me, it's not so much an acceptance of newsfilter as it is more proof that Metafilter has become a popularity contest. The name below the post is now more important than the content of the post itself. The nail in the coffin was the filtering system where you could limit your view to posts made by your "friends."

"you can't normally find the full text of those speeches"

This is bullshit. Every major news organization posts a transcript of every major political speech, and Drudge usually has it up three hours before it even happens.

Holy crap, you called out mathowie. That's bold, dude.

No it's not. It's part of the deal of being a member here with posting privileges. Jeebus.
posted by PrinceValium at 3:59 AM on September 3, 2004

Is that a shark I see before me?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:25 AM on September 3, 2004

The name below the post is now more important than the content of the post itself. (emphasis mine)

It's always been that way.

Metafilter does funny and humourous. It doesn't do serious.
posted by SpaceCadet at 5:14 AM on September 3, 2004

come on people ... it's a major event that in one way or another was going to get discussed on this site today and matt wisely linked to the speech itself, so the discussion would have a clean start

i await with anticipation the groundswell of protest at the first hurricane francis story ... especially if it's discovered she votes republican
posted by pyramid termite at 5:30 AM on September 3, 2004

Another US$0.02: I had just copied the thread link and was headed over here to post an Attaboy! to #1 for preemptively combining what undoubtedly would have been a bowl-o'erflowing flood of verbal diarrhea into a single, easily-skipped thread. Good thinking, Matt, and a precedent that bears repeating as we head into full-on campaigning here.

People are going to post partisan, divisive political stuff to the Blue, whether the majority of us like it or not, and Matt's made it clear (by deed if not by word) that at some level it's OK. Are we, the MeFite population that doesn't particularly care to read all that crap, not better served by the co-location of all that heinous sturm and drang into a single, easily spotted thread?
posted by JollyWanker at 5:52 AM on September 3, 2004

No!

I mean, Yes!

I mean, Nader!
posted by brownpau at 6:20 AM on September 3, 2004

Nader Nader Nader!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:43 AM on September 3, 2004

Like I said in that thread, it's a total bullshit post. Mathowie posted a lame-ass thread for no other reason than to have a big political jerk-off. I'm not going to take news/politicsfilter from anyone.
posted by bob sarabia at 7:50 AM on September 3, 2004

You tell 'em junior. Way to take a stand on the issues.
posted by yerfatma at 8:06 AM on September 3, 2004

I just have to say, approximately half of Matt's posts, when I come across them on the front page, make me say "wow, who had the balls to post this crap to the front page?" then I say, "oh."

But what's the point of calling it out? It's Matt's site. What, fvw's going to talk him into deleting his post?

Oh, and speaking of initials, the "X starts with Y" parody only works if X is a letter someone's using as an initial. If not, you just wind up looking lame.
posted by soyjoy at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2004

Is Prince Vallium decrying MeFi because it relies, somewhat unformally, on a reputation system? Should ew all post anonymously then?
posted by Space Coyote at 8:55 AM on September 3, 2004

This just reaffirms my belief that mathowie is completely reasonable and practical, but the self-appointed 'defenders of metafilter' are not.
posted by reklaw at 9:01 AM on September 3, 2004

*snicker*
posted by quonsar at 9:05 AM on September 3, 2004

Well I'll just add that I though Matt diverting the comments with a nice two line FPP was brilliant. Matt should have an AntiMatt ID (say user 0) so he can post things premptivily without being called out on it.
posted by Mitheral at 9:05 AM on September 3, 2004

Matt, I bet Viagra would pony-up big cash to sponsor MeF; It's a perfect fit: the color scheme, the denial, all the impotent anger.
posted by Mick at 9:34 AM on September 3, 2004

Jeese louise I didn't realize the Church of MetaFilter had so many priests.

Please protect us from ourselves, oh enlightened Filterati!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 10:08 AM on September 3, 2004

Matt should have an AntiMatt ID

You didn't really think there was such an actual person as "quonsar," did you?
posted by soyjoy at 10:13 AM on September 3, 2004

Matt is capricious. It's what we, um, "love" about him. And he has cameras.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:57 AM on September 3, 2004

The nail in the coffin was the filtering system where you could limit your view to posts made by your "friends."

The who what? Did I miss something?!?
posted by rushmc at 12:43 PM on September 3, 2004

Bold, indeed. Actually, it was more "impolite" than anything. We all *know* that it's Matt's site - but we all also know that without "all of us" there wouldn't BE a site, so to speak. And yes, we all know the rules, which are occasionally violated (on purpose or not).

But cripes -- it's Matt's house -- he can do whatever he wants with complete impunity. If you don't like a particular post or comment that he makes -- skip it! Ignore it! As the creator & owner & host, I think that overlooking what might appear to be a faux pas or careless entry or NewsFilter post by Matt is the right thing to do.
posted by davidmsc at 1:37 PM on September 3, 2004

This place needs a serious dose of spirit foam.
posted by Stan Chin at 1:43 PM on September 3, 2004

what Stan said (and soyjoy too)--Matt's just an average poster--some are good, some bad. (which is like most of us--i think it would have been a better post with one of the many factchecks of the speech online linked to as well).

I'd like to think maybe this will shut up some of the Sethish complainers about newsfilter--if a president's speech isn't newsfilter, nothing is. But i doubt it.
posted by amberglow at 1:55 PM on September 3, 2004

rushmc: Click on any user's profile (not your own.) Click "Add [...] as a contact." Then go to your own profile and click on "View contacts and contributions from contacts."
posted by PrinceValium at 2:42 PM on September 3, 2004

Heres the thing though, since the Bush speach was posted, it seems likethe floodgates have been opened.

Depressing.
posted by Quartermass at 2:57 PM on September 3, 2004

MetaFilter: All US Election News, All The Time.¹

1 Because we know you wouldn't pay attention to it otherwise, you ignorant slug.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:49 PM on September 3, 2004

As far as I'm concerned, it's Matt's website and it he has different rules for himself versus everyone else then so be it.
posted by gyc at 4:48 PM on September 3, 2004

soyjoy made me laugh a lot.
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:51 PM on September 3, 2004

'Tis better to light a single candle
Than to curse the darkness.
- anonymous candle salesman
posted by wendell at 6:29 PM on September 3, 2004

metatalk: the best of the bitching.
posted by concreteforest at 7:17 PM on September 3, 2004

rushmc: Click on any user's profile (not your own.) Click "Add [...] as a contact." Then go to your own profile and click on "View contacts and contributions from contacts."

Ah, that. "Limit your view to posts made by your 'friends'" sounded like a way to filter the front page to only see certain posters.

Which would be hideous, of course.
posted by rushmc at 7:24 PM on September 3, 2004

Well, if you bookmark the page and only visit it, that's the end result.
posted by PrinceValium at 7:43 PM on September 3, 2004

Guys, it's just a fucking web site.
posted by armoured-ant at 7:45 PM on September 3, 2004

And before someone else does it:

MetaFilter: It's just a fucking website.
posted by armoured-ant at 7:47 PM on September 3, 2004

If only it were just a fucking website.

But, no, it's a fucking website with assholes who can't stop fucking complaining about it. Jesus! There are times when I sincerely wish Matt would go postal on y'all.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:19 PM on September 3, 2004

i'm wearing a pretty gondola smock!
posted by quonsar at 8:34 PM on September 3, 2004

But, no, it's a fucking website with assholes who can't stop fucking complaining about it. Jesus! There are times when I sincerely wish Matt would go postal on y'all.

Matt wishes he could get all up in your face and that we still lived in a time when you could challenge someone to a duel.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:41 PM on September 3, 2004

i have a really agreeable dog. i kicked him today and he said "yep!"
posted by bargle at 8:53 PM on September 3, 2004

That's strange. When I kick my cat, she says "ow!".
posted by taz at 10:22 PM on September 3, 2004

Well, if you bookmark the page and only visit it, that's the end result.

Except that you'd have to bookmark the page of each of your "friends," as there's no way to compile it into an "approved posters and commenters only" page.
posted by rushmc at 10:44 PM on September 3, 2004

you liberals, not content with ruining the country, have to go and ruin metafilter. there oughta be a law!

I'm with five fresh fish. so many babies, not enough nipples. hmm.
posted by mcsweetie at 6:40 AM on September 4, 2004

rushmc, on your contacts page the most recent posts (on MeFi, MeTa, and AskMe) by anybody on your contacts list (those you have linked to) are displayed, so, conceivably, you could use only your contacts page to control what posts you see.

I think if anyone is really that eager to censor their MeFi viewing experience, they will certainly find some way of doing it, even if it's only peeking furtively at the screen between their splayed fingers while making the (gone-but-not-forgotten) "Scream" face.
posted by taz at 7:39 AM on September 4, 2004

Ah, gotcha, taz. Having no contacts, I hadn't seen this, thanks.
posted by rushmc at 10:06 AM on September 4, 2004

rush, you're usually (but, I know, not always) so level-headed... yet this time you failed to read through and acknowledge PV's clear and helpful instructions and instead tried to maintain a wholly unjustified snark rather than just acknowledge your lack of experience with the contacts tool. Best to just cop to that and move on, I'd say.

Also: wendell does to me what I did to eustacescrubb.
posted by soyjoy at 9:38 PM on September 4, 2004

Point is... for all you ass-kissers, Matt talks the talk, but rarely walks the walk, when it comes to front page posting. It's hypocritical and you lemmings just love it.
posted by Witty at 5:32 AM on September 5, 2004

even if it's only peeking furtively at the screen between their splayed fingers while making the (gone-but-not-forgotten) "Scream" face

*wonders if taz has found my webcam page and has seen me reading mefi*
posted by t r a c y at 7:31 AM on September 5, 2004

SnarK? What snark, soyjoy? I was simply trying to understand how what he was offering up was in fact a solution, since I took him to be referring to being able to track a particular user's comments once they had been marked a "friend," which wasn't the same thing at all as being able to track the comments of all people marked "friends" via a single page. It was a misunderstanding (I'll happily cop to that), but not a snark.
posted by rushmc at 8:01 AM on September 5, 2004

Okeley-dokeley.
posted by soyjoy at 11:07 AM on September 5, 2004

I agree with Witty, but I want to see what y6y6y6 and freebird say before I really make up my mind.
posted by Kwantsar at 1:16 PM on September 5, 2004

Witty's right.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:49 PST on September 5


Witty's right.
posted by freebird at 1:50 PST on September 5


Witty's right.
posted by hama7 at 1:59 PM on September 5, 2004

A frightening attempt at MetaIdentityTheft, hammy, but you forgot the PM...
posted by wendell at 4:57 PM on September 5, 2004

I fucking love Witty.

And, he's right.
posted by SpaceCadet at 4:59 PM on September 5, 2004