A historical oddity: self-link gets a pass December 10, 2004 8:32 PM Subscribe
I hate to say it, but: self link.
Yeah, I thought the same thing when I read it, but I didn't want it to come down, either. I'm glad Matt made a rare exception in this case.
posted by whatnot at 8:37 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by whatnot at 8:37 PM on December 10, 2004
I'll be the dickhead that pipes up to say it shouldn't stay. There are lots of people with friends and family over there that aren't linking to their stuff, and insomnial_j's already taken a lot of heat over it. It's a bad precedent, as pointed out by #1 himself.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:43 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:43 PM on December 10, 2004
There with ya, crash. Respect the guidelines and ask permission: get dragged around MeTa for a couple dozen comments. Break the rules without looking back: get a free pass! Eh.
posted by scarabic at 8:57 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by scarabic at 8:57 PM on December 10, 2004
Do ya'all actually get sexual aroused when exercising your 'self-policing' powers.
I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that, who doesn't love a little nightstick action now and then.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:00 PM on December 10, 2004
I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that, who doesn't love a little nightstick action now and then.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:00 PM on December 10, 2004
I agree with mr_crash_davis (and scarabic): it's a very bad precedent.
I'm sure if Qubit had emailed Matt, Matt would have posted it for him.
posted by timeistight at 9:01 PM on December 10, 2004
I'm sure if Qubit had emailed Matt, Matt would have posted it for him.
posted by timeistight at 9:01 PM on December 10, 2004
Hey thanks for the personal jab, PissOnYourParade. It's clear from the post what your opinion is, why don't you either elucidate that, or STFU.
posted by scarabic at 9:04 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by scarabic at 9:04 PM on December 10, 2004
So if my brother goes off to kill little brown babies I can post his boring personal narratives here? Awesome.
posted by cmonkey at 9:05 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by cmonkey at 9:05 PM on December 10, 2004
I dunno about the baby killing stories, but if he survives a service accident, by all means frame it in action movie terms and post away.
posted by scarabic at 9:08 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by scarabic at 9:08 PM on December 10, 2004
I think the post is okay. If it were a blog that reads: "Day 43 in Iraq: Another sandstorm, blah, blah...." it should under no circumstances be FPP'd.
But MeFi is all about Best of the Web, and I think this qualifies imhno*. If it were the blog of someone not related to a MeFite, we'd all be makin' positive comments. The fact that a link is a self-post should not disqualify it if it is truly Best of the Web. If it really isn't Best, Matt deletes it.
*inmho = in my humble noob opinion (yes, I realize it's internally redundant)
posted by Doohickie at 9:09 PM on December 10, 2004
But MeFi is all about Best of the Web, and I think this qualifies imhno*. If it were the blog of someone not related to a MeFite, we'd all be makin' positive comments. The fact that a link is a self-post should not disqualify it if it is truly Best of the Web. If it really isn't Best, Matt deletes it.
*inmho = in my humble noob opinion (yes, I realize it's internally redundant)
posted by Doohickie at 9:09 PM on December 10, 2004
"If it were the blog of someone not related to a MeFite, we'd all be makin' positive comments."
No. Afraid not. But thanks for playing.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:11 PM on December 10, 2004
No. Afraid not. But thanks for playing.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:11 PM on December 10, 2004
The demonization of the troops shall not end just because one our own posts about his brother. Did you hear about that guy who admited to killing the iraqi teenager as a "mercy killing"? The troops in Iraq are cold blooded baby killing psychopaths, it's not just a few bad apples like Bush wants us to believe.
posted by stbalbach at 9:17 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by stbalbach at 9:17 PM on December 10, 2004
is this a boyzone thing?
posted by Dreamghost at 9:23 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by Dreamghost at 9:23 PM on December 10, 2004
Hey, all I want is for people to think before they knee-jerk and trust me, I rarely STFU well.
Clearly the reason for the no self-link policy is not to really keep people for posting links to themselves. Its because when people are allowed to post about themselves, they can consciously or unconsciously post self involved or self prompting crap. This policy really seems to have worked out well at MeFi and I am not at all implying that it should be repealed. But, the very first post was #1 himself reiterating the rule, making a not so subtle reminder that its a bye-bye offense and keeping the post.
Why, because (well, in my opinion, since my mind control device for Matt seems to be malfunctioning) its in the spirit of the rules; Best of the Web. Everything else is to help insure that aim.
And blindly calling for a hanging (or in this case, a deletion) smacks to me of the mentality that made the three strikes laws so popular. Rules and guidelines have reasons. They do not exsit in of themselves. And Matt's clear response at the top of the thread makes this discussion just a bunch of self-important wanking.
Now, if you want to debate the "Best of the Web' part, at least we're on the same page. I'll think your stupid, 'cause if you think reading a personal narrative about someone being in an aircraft when the important bits get ripped off by another aircraft, then sliding on its belly, and bursting into flames, isn't novel, interesting and rare, then we live in different worlds.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:27 PM on December 10, 2004
Clearly the reason for the no self-link policy is not to really keep people for posting links to themselves. Its because when people are allowed to post about themselves, they can consciously or unconsciously post self involved or self prompting crap. This policy really seems to have worked out well at MeFi and I am not at all implying that it should be repealed. But, the very first post was #1 himself reiterating the rule, making a not so subtle reminder that its a bye-bye offense and keeping the post.
Why, because (well, in my opinion, since my mind control device for Matt seems to be malfunctioning) its in the spirit of the rules; Best of the Web. Everything else is to help insure that aim.
And blindly calling for a hanging (or in this case, a deletion) smacks to me of the mentality that made the three strikes laws so popular. Rules and guidelines have reasons. They do not exsit in of themselves. And Matt's clear response at the top of the thread makes this discussion just a bunch of self-important wanking.
Now, if you want to debate the "Best of the Web' part, at least we're on the same page. I'll think your stupid, 'cause if you think reading a personal narrative about someone being in an aircraft when the important bits get ripped off by another aircraft, then sliding on its belly, and bursting into flames, isn't novel, interesting and rare, then we live in different worlds.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:27 PM on December 10, 2004
Just because they're troops, stbalbach, does not make them demons. Yes, there are systematic problems in the military, but we're not talking about Ahnold-type Terminators; these are people. War shouldn't be glorified, but if this same incident had occurred due to a collision between National Guard heli's on a rescue mission in Alaska, it would have been just as relevant. It is the survival aspect of the story that makes it compelling. It was an interesting story and I think it was an okay FPP.
And crash.... maybe not everyone would like the content of the post, but no one would be getting railed over the self-post thang. The issue here is not the post's content (the blue is for that); it's whether a self post is ever acceptable. I think that, as a rule, no it is not acceptable. But I think the subject post is a valid exception to the rule.
Just sayin'.
posted by Doohickie at 9:32 PM on December 10, 2004
And crash.... maybe not everyone would like the content of the post, but no one would be getting railed over the self-post thang. The issue here is not the post's content (the blue is for that); it's whether a self post is ever acceptable. I think that, as a rule, no it is not acceptable. But I think the subject post is a valid exception to the rule.
Just sayin'.
posted by Doohickie at 9:32 PM on December 10, 2004
omg latest pictures from iraq prove troops are demons
posted by Krrrlson at 9:36 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by Krrrlson at 9:36 PM on December 10, 2004
Doohickie, you said: "If it were the blog of someone not related to a MeFite, we'd all be makin' positive comments." Clearly that's not the case. There has rarely in the history of Metafilter been a thread where everyone made positive comments, least of all a thread about the Iraq war.
Then you said "..maybe not everyone would like the content of the post, but no one would be getting railed over the self-post thang". That would be true, because it wouldn't be a self-post then. Which is what I'm saying, eh?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:38 PM on December 10, 2004
Then you said "..maybe not everyone would like the content of the post, but no one would be getting railed over the self-post thang". That would be true, because it wouldn't be a self-post then. Which is what I'm saying, eh?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:38 PM on December 10, 2004
dude, I think stbalbach was doin' the whole, ya know, irony thing.
posted by notsnot at 9:39 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by notsnot at 9:39 PM on December 10, 2004
nah man, fuck that. That self-link is the best one mefi has seen. It stays. I'm usually a stickler for the rules, but this one tops it.
posted by puke & cry at 9:40 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by puke & cry at 9:40 PM on December 10, 2004
In my crotchety and jaded old age, I have become hopelessly blunt and undiplomatic with people. I work in a pretty intense software development shop and there it has been cultivated as a virtue and blossomed into assholeness.
Elucidation is complete, PissOnYourParade. Thank you for that link!
Now I believe I will go argue with the onion in my refrigerator. It should be about as challenging as debating someone who relies on empty cliches like "the exception that makes the rule" and "I just want people to think." My onion also doesn't lead with "go shove a nightstick up your ass."
Just because they're troops, stbalbach, does not make them demons.
No, it doesn't, but not all of us feel that military personnel should be exempt from all rules, and go to the front of all lines, either.
That self-link is the best one mefi has seen. It stays. I'm usually a stickler for the rules, but this one tops it.
You new folks really can't think past whether you like the post or not. Sheesh.
posted by scarabic at 9:44 PM on December 10, 2004
Elucidation is complete, PissOnYourParade. Thank you for that link!
Now I believe I will go argue with the onion in my refrigerator. It should be about as challenging as debating someone who relies on empty cliches like "the exception that makes the rule" and "I just want people to think." My onion also doesn't lead with "go shove a nightstick up your ass."
Just because they're troops, stbalbach, does not make them demons.
No, it doesn't, but not all of us feel that military personnel should be exempt from all rules, and go to the front of all lines, either.
That self-link is the best one mefi has seen. It stays. I'm usually a stickler for the rules, but this one tops it.
You new folks really can't think past whether you like the post or not. Sheesh.
posted by scarabic at 9:44 PM on December 10, 2004
*I've got it!*
We only really need one rule:
ONLY POSTS WE LIKE! GOOD ONES!
posted by scarabic at 9:47 PM on December 10, 2004
We only really need one rule:
ONLY POSTS WE LIKE! GOOD ONES!
posted by scarabic at 9:47 PM on December 10, 2004
POYP, so it's bad and wanky and stuff to dump on a self link, but it's good and fine and noble to dump on dumping on a self link? What if someone dumps on your dumping on the dumping on a self-link? Would it toggle back to being a bad thing again, or does it get successively more acceptable with each layer of dumpage? Please produce a scatter plot, histogram, venn diagram and pornographic cocktail napkin cartoon, each of which depicts which kind of thing typed with the fingers that it's okay to not like and say so about it. Snacks will be served once we reach our cruising altitude.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:48 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:48 PM on December 10, 2004
is this a boyzone thing?
... pornographic cocktail napkin cartoon...
I certainly hope so.
posted by metaculpa at 9:53 PM on December 10, 2004
... pornographic cocktail napkin cartoon...
I certainly hope so.
posted by metaculpa at 9:53 PM on December 10, 2004
It stays because Matt says it stays. I support scarabic's call-out, but the moment Matt spanked the user and left the thread, this call-out became superfluous. Parade ought to take his Nazi fantasies elsewhere--a knee-jerk call-out retort is kettle-pot black-calling. (On preview: what G_S said.)
posted by squirrel at 9:55 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by squirrel at 9:55 PM on December 10, 2004
Jesus, stbalbach, that was so fucked I still can't tell if it was sarcastic or not.
I'm a gay liberal living in the Village. I'm against this war for some many reasons and at so many levels that it's difficult to even collate them all. But still, I would equivocate that schema you have as the same as the freepers who think that all arabs are freedom hating suicidal murders. Its a black and white way of looking at the world and with how grey things are today, thats dangerous and ignorant.
For the most part, those boys (and girls) over there are freaking people. People who either through a sense of duty, a want of adventure, or a lack of local opportunities thought that serving would do some good. Yes, a lot of them are the crazy jocks and good 'ole boys we love to hate here in the states. But, I bet to a statistical 100%, they all got into it thinking they were going to do some good.
Then they got trained to be the unthinking bludgeon of United States foreign policy and some assholes sent them into a situation which fucked them all up. War does that, it fucks people up real good.
You want to be pissed at someone, direct it at where its deserved, the ones who have no excuse about being fucked up since they've been running oil companies into bankruptcy and playing golf in Texas.
You know, I hate Tom Cruise with a passion, but maybe you should go watch Born on the Fourth of July or some such shit. These are humans, just like the Iraqi's are human. And human beings can really lose their way when put into the wrong situation.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:56 PM on December 10, 2004
I'm a gay liberal living in the Village. I'm against this war for some many reasons and at so many levels that it's difficult to even collate them all. But still, I would equivocate that schema you have as the same as the freepers who think that all arabs are freedom hating suicidal murders. Its a black and white way of looking at the world and with how grey things are today, thats dangerous and ignorant.
For the most part, those boys (and girls) over there are freaking people. People who either through a sense of duty, a want of adventure, or a lack of local opportunities thought that serving would do some good. Yes, a lot of them are the crazy jocks and good 'ole boys we love to hate here in the states. But, I bet to a statistical 100%, they all got into it thinking they were going to do some good.
Then they got trained to be the unthinking bludgeon of United States foreign policy and some assholes sent them into a situation which fucked them all up. War does that, it fucks people up real good.
You want to be pissed at someone, direct it at where its deserved, the ones who have no excuse about being fucked up since they've been running oil companies into bankruptcy and playing golf in Texas.
You know, I hate Tom Cruise with a passion, but maybe you should go watch Born on the Fourth of July or some such shit. These are humans, just like the Iraqi's are human. And human beings can really lose their way when put into the wrong situation.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 9:56 PM on December 10, 2004
Self link, but great link, and MeFi gets the scoop.
Does this MeTa strike anyone as a bit I'm tellliiiing!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:05 PM on December 10, 2004
Does this MeTa strike anyone as a bit I'm tellliiiing!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:05 PM on December 10, 2004
Metafilter: Do ya'all actually get sexual aroused when exercising your 'self-policing' powers.
stand back, this is gonna be a gusher!
posted by moonbird at 10:11 PM on December 10, 2004
stand back, this is gonna be a gusher!
posted by moonbird at 10:11 PM on December 10, 2004
This thread is just like the tagline:
you're wrong. no you're wrong.
posted by Doohickie at 10:18 PM on December 10, 2004
you're wrong. no you're wrong.
posted by Doohickie at 10:18 PM on December 10, 2004
Yeah, okay, maybe it was a bit over the top. I have poor impulse control sometimes.
Too much vicoden, or maybe too little. Definitely not exactly the right amount.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 10:20 PM on December 10, 2004
Too much vicoden, or maybe too little. Definitely not exactly the right amount.
posted by PissOnYourParade at 10:20 PM on December 10, 2004
Then you said "..maybe not everyone would like the content of the post, but no one would be getting railed over the self-post thang". That would be true, because it wouldn't be a self-post then. Which is what I'm saying, eh?
Crash- The point of no self-posts is to prevent people from self-promoting and/or letting the place get overrun with webpages dedicated to sea shell collections, right? The first part of that is that we don't want MeFi to turn into a pimp zone for the members. The second part is preventing mundane posts. The post in question is neither schlocking for anything, nor boring. It is compelling reading, at least for some of the members (probably a pretty even split, considering the responses on this thread). Based on that, it belongs on MeFi because it is a Best of the Web kind of site.
At this point, I realize people are dug in pretty deep on either side, so it's probably a good time to give up. See ya.
posted by Doohickie at 10:24 PM on December 10, 2004
Crash- The point of no self-posts is to prevent people from self-promoting and/or letting the place get overrun with webpages dedicated to sea shell collections, right? The first part of that is that we don't want MeFi to turn into a pimp zone for the members. The second part is preventing mundane posts. The post in question is neither schlocking for anything, nor boring. It is compelling reading, at least for some of the members (probably a pretty even split, considering the responses on this thread). Based on that, it belongs on MeFi because it is a Best of the Web kind of site.
At this point, I realize people are dug in pretty deep on either side, so it's probably a good time to give up. See ya.
posted by Doohickie at 10:24 PM on December 10, 2004
There has rarely in the history of Metafilter been a thread where everyone made positive comments
I dispute that. Political posts, maybe, but there have been tons of posts that have been universally well-received.
I hate the idea of letting some people self link if their content is good enough, because it encourages people to try to slip theirs by, since most people think their content is good. Then again, I don't like the self-link ban (a good link is a good link, whoever posts it), though I understand the reason for it. Ideally, I'd like to see self-links submitted for approval like anonymous AskMe questions, but I realize that's additional work for mathowie.
For the most part, those boys (and girls) over there are freaking people.
For the most part? What are the rest?
posted by rushmc at 10:26 PM on December 10, 2004
I dispute that. Political posts, maybe, but there have been tons of posts that have been universally well-received.
I hate the idea of letting some people self link if their content is good enough, because it encourages people to try to slip theirs by, since most people think their content is good. Then again, I don't like the self-link ban (a good link is a good link, whoever posts it), though I understand the reason for it. Ideally, I'd like to see self-links submitted for approval like anonymous AskMe questions, but I realize that's additional work for mathowie.
For the most part, those boys (and girls) over there are freaking people.
For the most part? What are the rest?
posted by rushmc at 10:26 PM on December 10, 2004
rushmc: darpa-engineered cyborg monsters with mouths all over their limbs. or so I hear.
/tinfoil
posted by exlotuseater at 10:31 PM on December 10, 2004
/tinfoil
posted by exlotuseater at 10:31 PM on December 10, 2004
It's clear from the post what your opinion is, why don't you either elucidate that, or STFU.
If it's clear from the post what POYP's opinion is, then it's already been elucidated -- by that very post. [include whatever_latin_initials_apply.h]
posted by davy at 10:33 PM on December 10, 2004
If it's clear from the post what POYP's opinion is, then it's already been elucidated -- by that very post. [include whatever_latin_initials_apply.h]
posted by davy at 10:33 PM on December 10, 2004
the moment Matt spanked the user and left the thread, this call-out became superfluous
Yeah, pretty much. Talking about it only shrouds the autocracy with the illusion of debate. Needless to say, if Matt's comment had appeared a bit earlier, I wouldn't have bothered.
Doohickie:
The point of no self-posts is to prevent people from self-promoting and/or letting the place get overrun with webpages dedicated to sea shell collections, right?
ONLY POSTS WE LIKE! GOOD ONES!
Throw out the rule entirely then and let everyone self-link. Matt can delete the bad ones. If we boil it all down to "good self links are okay" then Matt is in the position of having to yea/nay everyone's personal posts, which would probably come with a big-ass guilt trip, and overwhelm him. The point is that you make it a rule to keep it simple and to keep it from getting out of hand. Exceptions set a bad precedent and
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: STOP WHINING. It's very easy to get someone else to post it. If all else fails, email it to Matt and let him do it. THAT'S NOT HARD, and it allows the rule to continue to function and do the good its designed to do (which you seem to understand on some level).
Zat make sense?
heh - nice catch davy
posted by scarabic at 10:34 PM on December 10, 2004
Yeah, pretty much. Talking about it only shrouds the autocracy with the illusion of debate. Needless to say, if Matt's comment had appeared a bit earlier, I wouldn't have bothered.
Doohickie:
The point of no self-posts is to prevent people from self-promoting and/or letting the place get overrun with webpages dedicated to sea shell collections, right?
ONLY POSTS WE LIKE! GOOD ONES!
Throw out the rule entirely then and let everyone self-link. Matt can delete the bad ones. If we boil it all down to "good self links are okay" then Matt is in the position of having to yea/nay everyone's personal posts, which would probably come with a big-ass guilt trip, and overwhelm him. The point is that you make it a rule to keep it simple and to keep it from getting out of hand. Exceptions set a bad precedent and
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: STOP WHINING. It's very easy to get someone else to post it. If all else fails, email it to Matt and let him do it. THAT'S NOT HARD, and it allows the rule to continue to function and do the good its designed to do (which you seem to understand on some level).
Zat make sense?
posted by scarabic at 10:34 PM on December 10, 2004
It's very easy to get someone else to post it.
It is? By who? Maybe there should be a Public Proxy Posters list, so we won't have to keep bothering Mathowie with everything.
posted by davy at 10:42 PM on December 10, 2004
It is? By who? Maybe there should be a Public Proxy Posters list, so we won't have to keep bothering Mathowie with everything.
posted by davy at 10:42 PM on December 10, 2004
It didn't even occur to me to call self-post on this one, since Qubit is presenting someone else's content which is basically hosted on his site. It was the story and writing of his brother, who hasn't a blog, but has e-mail. In this sense, to me, it doesn't break the spirit of the no-self-post rule. At any rate I'm glad Mathowie let it stay because it's now one of many stories I'll never forget thanks to MeFi.
posted by Tubes at 10:46 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by Tubes at 10:46 PM on December 10, 2004
scarabic- I have a couple of personal web pages I want FPP'd. Will you do it for me? I'll email you the links. Thanks.
posted by Doohickie at 10:48 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by Doohickie at 10:48 PM on December 10, 2004
scarabic- I have a couple of personal web pages I want FPP'd. Will you do it for me? I'll email you the links. Thanks.
Happy to take a look at 'em. I didn't make them, so I can maybe eye them a little more objectively than you can. See? It's working already.
posted by scarabic at 11:03 PM on December 10, 2004
Happy to take a look at 'em. I didn't make them, so I can maybe eye them a little more objectively than you can. See? It's working already.
posted by scarabic at 11:03 PM on December 10, 2004
Jesus, stbalbach, that was so fucked I still can't tell if it was sarcastic or not.
It started off sarcastic, but then crossed the line and made sense.. somthing went wrong.
posted by stbalbach at 11:03 PM on December 10, 2004
It started off sarcastic, but then crossed the line and made sense.. somthing went wrong.
posted by stbalbach at 11:03 PM on December 10, 2004
And with that, goodnight. You kids can talk yourselves blue about how we don't need a no-self-linking policy. Obviously Matt has put me in a poor position to explain it to you.
Do you see what you've done, here, Matt? The noobs are actually scoffing at the idea of showing their web creations to someone else so that that person can post it to MeFi for them. This is how "bad precedent" manifests. Expect to see pictures from one of their hot-air ballooning trips on the front page tomorrow.
posted by scarabic at 11:07 PM on December 10, 2004
Do you see what you've done, here, Matt? The noobs are actually scoffing at the idea of showing their web creations to someone else so that that person can post it to MeFi for them. This is how "bad precedent" manifests. Expect to see pictures from one of their hot-air ballooning trips on the front page tomorrow.
posted by scarabic at 11:07 PM on December 10, 2004
If we boil it all down to "good self links are okay" then Matt is in the position of having to yea/nay everyone's personal posts, which would probably come with a big-ass guilt trip, and overwhelm him.
No, that's kinda the situation we have now. Qubit's link was a self-link, but Matt thought it was good enough to stay, so it stayed... and that's probably the way it's tacitly always been. What keeps the whole system from spinning out of control is the caveat that if you post a bad self-link, you get banned. With the threat of capital punishment looming overhead, you had better think long and hard before posting anything resembling a self-link.
Posts that might be construed as product placement or shills are dealt with similarly. Don't post an ad unless you think it's interesting enough. If Matt and the general public decide otherwise, you're in trouble. Sometimes things work out, but it's best to avoid posts like these altogether.
posted by painquale at 11:12 PM on December 10, 2004
No, that's kinda the situation we have now. Qubit's link was a self-link, but Matt thought it was good enough to stay, so it stayed... and that's probably the way it's tacitly always been. What keeps the whole system from spinning out of control is the caveat that if you post a bad self-link, you get banned. With the threat of capital punishment looming overhead, you had better think long and hard before posting anything resembling a self-link.
Posts that might be construed as product placement or shills are dealt with similarly. Don't post an ad unless you think it's interesting enough. If Matt and the general public decide otherwise, you're in trouble. Sometimes things work out, but it's best to avoid posts like these altogether.
posted by painquale at 11:12 PM on December 10, 2004
If I had anything useful to self link I'd try and hit up a MeFi member to do it for me I guess. I'd hit #mefi first, and aside from the expected gratuitously masturbatory comments by quonsar and a few others I'd take their advice or offers. If nobody was willing to do it then I'd come to the conclusion that it wasn't very linkworthy. I'm glad to see that link, but I guess I'd rather see the link with an attempt to work around the rules.
posted by substrate at 11:16 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by substrate at 11:16 PM on December 10, 2004
scarabic, I bet you are not much fun to play monopoly against.
I get your point and it is a terrible precedent to set in front of the children. But quonsar's been flashing them for a couple of weeks now and they're likely just shellshocked.
How many of the kids even know about MeTa?
Matt should delete and repost it himself or have someone else repost it. And publicly spank Qubit.
posted by fenriq at 11:36 PM on December 10, 2004
I get your point and it is a terrible precedent to set in front of the children. But quonsar's been flashing them for a couple of weeks now and they're likely just shellshocked.
How many of the kids even know about MeTa?
Matt should delete and repost it himself or have someone else repost it. And publicly spank Qubit.
posted by fenriq at 11:36 PM on December 10, 2004
I'm in the "bad precedent" camp. Not that anyone asked.
posted by dobbs at 11:43 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by dobbs at 11:43 PM on December 10, 2004
btw - if that hot air balloon collides with an apache helicopter, falls burning to ground in an war zone and everyone walks away with pictures, then please, post away...
posted by PissOnYourParade at 11:54 PM on December 10, 2004
posted by PissOnYourParade at 11:54 PM on December 10, 2004
I'm in the "bad precedent" camp.
It's not like it's the first.
posted by rushmc at 12:24 AM on December 11, 2004
It's not like it's the first.
posted by rushmc at 12:24 AM on December 11, 2004
Sorry for the self-link, folks. Damn - I post my 5th link here in the 3 years I've been reading MeFi and I screw it up. I thought the ban on self-linking was more for avoiding promotion, especially of a business nature or to keep people from showing family photo albums and the like.
I'll go back to reading and posting APS and Reuters links and the latest flash game du jour like everyone else.
posted by Qubit at 1:18 AM on December 11, 2004
I'll go back to reading and posting APS and Reuters links and the latest flash game du jour like everyone else.
posted by Qubit at 1:18 AM on December 11, 2004
best self link evah.
but yeah, just this once.. kay?
posted by dabitch at 2:43 AM on December 11, 2004
but yeah, just this once.. kay?
posted by dabitch at 2:43 AM on December 11, 2004
i can imagine scarabic being rushed to hospital - his waters have broken and a scarabicette is just itchin to make its way into the world. "faster, faster" he gasps to the poor driver, who's just headed the wrong way down a one-way street to get to the hospital quicker....
...when a policeman stops them.
now you or i might think the policeman would make an exception. but no, not scarabic. "yes, policeman, you're right. an exception would mean the end of the world, with everyone violating traffic rules after this - why look, i'll just jump out and run across the road to make a little more mayhem as evidence - and, excuse me a minute but my baby's head seems to be appearing - please fine me the full amount".
or, what part of exception don't you understand, scarabic? you so fucking anal you can't fathom the idea that just sometimes the different happens? that not every damn thing has to follow the rules exactly?
stops, horror and realisation dawning across her face: are you some kind of machine (darpa funded with mouths on all limbs)? all this time i've known you and it's just been cold circuitry? even then?
jeez. unclench. the world is complicated. variety is the spice of life. a change is as good as a rest. too much work and no play makes john a dull boy. it can't be reduced to simple rules every time. and if it could, you'd be the only person happy.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:21 AM on December 11, 2004
...when a policeman stops them.
now you or i might think the policeman would make an exception. but no, not scarabic. "yes, policeman, you're right. an exception would mean the end of the world, with everyone violating traffic rules after this - why look, i'll just jump out and run across the road to make a little more mayhem as evidence - and, excuse me a minute but my baby's head seems to be appearing - please fine me the full amount".
or, what part of exception don't you understand, scarabic? you so fucking anal you can't fathom the idea that just sometimes the different happens? that not every damn thing has to follow the rules exactly?
stops, horror and realisation dawning across her face: are you some kind of machine (darpa funded with mouths on all limbs)? all this time i've known you and it's just been cold circuitry? even then?
jeez. unclench. the world is complicated. variety is the spice of life. a change is as good as a rest. too much work and no play makes john a dull boy. it can't be reduced to simple rules every time. and if it could, you'd be the only person happy.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:21 AM on December 11, 2004
I'll be the dickhead that pipes up to say it shouldn't stay
The first things I learned from the site were; links are knowledge & a self link has the potential for "peci blu."
Let the link stay, as there have been post like this before. The soldier in Iraq that photographed "Meta-Filter", was allowed by Matt, self link and all. He was there, we were not.
Basically I learned the correct use of the internet which sites like this I have called "play grounds." As these sites taught me to post without self links(y'all knew I had a brother in Iraq which I blogged.) Thus I'm not him, so this member's self link is the tool to post, so be. Because basically we are individuals BY the community we belong.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:31 AM on December 11, 2004
The first things I learned from the site were; links are knowledge & a self link has the potential for "peci blu."
Let the link stay, as there have been post like this before. The soldier in Iraq that photographed "Meta-Filter", was allowed by Matt, self link and all. He was there, we were not.
Basically I learned the correct use of the internet which sites like this I have called "play grounds." As these sites taught me to post without self links(y'all knew I had a brother in Iraq which I blogged.) Thus I'm not him, so this member's self link is the tool to post, so be. Because basically we are individuals BY the community we belong.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:31 AM on December 11, 2004
Meh. From what I can tell, it comes down to priorities: Mathowie values a good link more than he values teaching someone a lesson. As such, the link stays. Deleting it would teach us newbies a lesson, but deprive the site of a good link.
I'm neutral on the issue (no intention to ever self-link), but it seems if anyone has an argument here it is with Matt and his priorities, and not the rest of the people in this thread.
posted by Bugbread at 4:37 AM on December 11, 2004
I'm neutral on the issue (no intention to ever self-link), but it seems if anyone has an argument here it is with Matt and his priorities, and not the rest of the people in this thread.
posted by Bugbread at 4:37 AM on December 11, 2004
rare exceptions as long as it's red white and blue
posted by PocusHocus at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2004
posted by PocusHocus at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2004
I'm glad it's up. You guys waste waaaay too much time discussing this stuff. Scarabic, you win, you made it to Meta to complain first, before even the first comment could be made. Hooray!
posted by xammerboy at 7:02 AM on December 11, 2004
posted by xammerboy at 7:02 AM on December 11, 2004
I assumed by the fact that Matt got the first comment in that he must have got permission to post it. Otherwise, what are the chances that he happened to post a potentially controversial link while Matt happened to be reading the site?
posted by jacquilynne at 7:45 AM on December 11, 2004
posted by jacquilynne at 7:45 AM on December 11, 2004
is this a boyzone thing?
No, my "female intuition" tells me this is more of a Power Thing. (He who controls the Meta controls the world)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:54 AM on December 11, 2004
No, my "female intuition" tells me this is more of a Power Thing. (He who controls the Meta controls the world)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:54 AM on December 11, 2004
Qubit, no one is saying its a bad post and getting pissy about it is kind of stupid. It is a good post but, by posting it, you've violated one of the prime rules of the site.
I'm glad that the link is here, I just think the attribution for the link should be changed so that the new members don't think the front page is now a free for all (as has been discussed at length above).
Now, if you'll excuse me, my neighbor is raking his leaves up totally incorrectly so I've gotta go set him straight. And that kid on his skateboard is doing it all wrong too. Damn, I've got my work cut out for me.
posted by fenriq at 8:45 AM on December 11, 2004
I'm glad that the link is here, I just think the attribution for the link should be changed so that the new members don't think the front page is now a free for all (as has been discussed at length above).
Now, if you'll excuse me, my neighbor is raking his leaves up totally incorrectly so I've gotta go set him straight. And that kid on his skateboard is doing it all wrong too. Damn, I've got my work cut out for me.
posted by fenriq at 8:45 AM on December 11, 2004
It was an interesting story. As "self-posts" go, it was hardly a shallow one.
Qubit, maybe the post would've been more attractive if it culled from 5-6 soldier's blogs & letters, or cross-referenced stories about other Blackhawk accidents with a "More Inside" link to your brother's story, as to seem a little more subtle about promoting it?
posted by dhoyt at 9:07 AM on December 11, 2004
Qubit, maybe the post would've been more attractive if it culled from 5-6 soldier's blogs & letters, or cross-referenced stories about other Blackhawk accidents with a "More Inside" link to your brother's story, as to seem a little more subtle about promoting it?
posted by dhoyt at 9:07 AM on December 11, 2004
I knew the site was heading downhill as soon as Matt doubleposted that snowflake thing. The flood of new users and five dollar bills has gone to his head. He has become drunk with power and we must... dispose of him.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 10:02 AM on December 11, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 10:02 AM on December 11, 2004 [1 favorite]
The noobs are actually scoffing at the idea of showing their web creations to someone else so that that person can post it to MeFi for them.
I think you misread me, scarabic. I merely meant that I don't know any of you (old farts or not), and many of you don't give contact info (I don't), nor is there a list of those who'd welcome such a chore, so advising me to email anything to somebody for vetting and/or posting is simply silly. I might as well call on the Easter Bunny. (And mathowie might sometimes be too busy to take requests from zillions of random neomefites, y'know.)
My default would simply be not to post anything that looks like a self-link. This is because Matt's blog is not a democracy (or at least I've seen no Constitution saying it is), and I do have other ways of getting the word out. As for anybody's criticism of Matt's recent exception, well, like I said, Matt's blog is not a democracy: Matt can make any exceptions to any Matt-made rules Matt wants to. If you don't like it you can start your own blog, or start one of those interminable FreespeechFilter threads (like this one).
Again: I ain't seen any Public Proxy Posters list. Is there one, and if not will there be? (Just don't include me, I'm trying to discourage stalkers now.)
posted by davy at 10:05 AM on December 11, 2004
I think you misread me, scarabic. I merely meant that I don't know any of you (old farts or not), and many of you don't give contact info (I don't), nor is there a list of those who'd welcome such a chore, so advising me to email anything to somebody for vetting and/or posting is simply silly. I might as well call on the Easter Bunny. (And mathowie might sometimes be too busy to take requests from zillions of random neomefites, y'know.)
My default would simply be not to post anything that looks like a self-link. This is because Matt's blog is not a democracy (or at least I've seen no Constitution saying it is), and I do have other ways of getting the word out. As for anybody's criticism of Matt's recent exception, well, like I said, Matt's blog is not a democracy: Matt can make any exceptions to any Matt-made rules Matt wants to. If you don't like it you can start your own blog, or start one of those interminable FreespeechFilter threads (like this one).
Again: I ain't seen any Public Proxy Posters list. Is there one, and if not will there be? (Just don't include me, I'm trying to discourage stalkers now.)
posted by davy at 10:05 AM on December 11, 2004
If everbody keeps this up, maybe scarabic's head will explode!
posted by stinkycheese at 10:48 AM on December 11, 2004
posted by stinkycheese at 10:48 AM on December 11, 2004
I slept, and the most magical thing happened. I unclenched!
The exception isn't the end of the world, but I hope people don't interpret it as a new world order where "self-links are okay as long as they're good posts," because the whole isse with self-linking is you can't judge whether your own work if "good."
In simpler terms: this kind of thing won't pass without a stink, obviously. And yes, davy, just about anyone you see here who seems reasonable enough to you is worth emailing if you have a project you'd like to see linked.
posted by scarabic at 11:13 AM on December 11, 2004
The exception isn't the end of the world, but I hope people don't interpret it as a new world order where "self-links are okay as long as they're good posts," because the whole isse with self-linking is you can't judge whether your own work if "good."
In simpler terms: this kind of thing won't pass without a stink, obviously. And yes, davy, just about anyone you see here who seems reasonable enough to you is worth emailing if you have a project you'd like to see linked.
posted by scarabic at 11:13 AM on December 11, 2004
Little-known fact: the heads of most users here have exploded long ago. Their bodies continue to post by sheer reflex.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:14 AM on December 11, 2004
posted by Krrrlson at 11:14 AM on December 11, 2004
This is a good debate on when a self-link is appropriate. I think that an argument can be made that it's not technically a self-link because Qubit is just a conduit for the actual site poster. On the other hand, I suppose that can be said about a lot of linked sites.
That aside, I want to say that this was an important link for me to read. I have received an Army Reserve JAG Corps Appointment letter, which I have 60 days to decide whether to accept or not. If I accept I will most likely be mobilized to Iraq or Afghanistan. I personally need this type of first hand information. I know that MeFi is not my personal information center, but nevertheless I appreciate this specific info. So thanks Qubit. And thank you Matt for letting it stay.
posted by Juicylicious at 12:00 PM on December 11, 2004
That aside, I want to say that this was an important link for me to read. I have received an Army Reserve JAG Corps Appointment letter, which I have 60 days to decide whether to accept or not. If I accept I will most likely be mobilized to Iraq or Afghanistan. I personally need this type of first hand information. I know that MeFi is not my personal information center, but nevertheless I appreciate this specific info. So thanks Qubit. And thank you Matt for letting it stay.
posted by Juicylicious at 12:00 PM on December 11, 2004
Where at *.metafilter.com should MetaFilter users who wish to post about their own links post? Is there a function here equivalent to DailyKos "diaries", with front-page sidebar integration? If not, then how many voices are silenced each day for fear of self-promotion? Had this user not violated the convention and done so anyways, the entire community would lack a viewpoint that even its founder seems to considers worth viewing.
If I were to avoid self-promotion altogether, I would be forced to remain a silent lurker; instead, I choose to speak regardless. Simply by posting a comment in this thread, I am indirectly promoting myself -- anyone reading this could, theoretically, deep-link through my MetaFilter profile to my home page. Should my words remain unspoken simply because they could increase the traffic to my website?
posted by crysflame at 8:03 PM on December 11, 2004
If I were to avoid self-promotion altogether, I would be forced to remain a silent lurker; instead, I choose to speak regardless. Simply by posting a comment in this thread, I am indirectly promoting myself -- anyone reading this could, theoretically, deep-link through my MetaFilter profile to my home page. Should my words remain unspoken simply because they could increase the traffic to my website?
posted by crysflame at 8:03 PM on December 11, 2004
Matt's going to add a new section for mefites to post their own projects. Real Soon Now.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:58 PM on December 11, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:58 PM on December 11, 2004 [1 favorite]
Should my words remain unspoken simply because they could increase the traffic to my website?
On principle, I'd say no; but in your case, Gorgias, definitely yes.
;^)
posted by squirrel at 4:24 AM on December 12, 2004
On principle, I'd say no; but in your case, Gorgias, definitely yes.
;^)
posted by squirrel at 4:24 AM on December 12, 2004
If I were to avoid self-promotion altogether, I would be forced to remain a silent lurker; instead, I choose to speak regardless. Simply by posting a comment in this thread, I am indirectly promoting myself -- anyone reading this could, theoretically, deep-link through my MetaFilter profile to my home page. Should my words remain unspoken simply because they could increase the traffic to my website?
Oh for god's sake. Is it that hard to understand the no-self-link principle? Go read the posting guidelines again. It doesn't say anything about increasing the risk that people might check your user page and (god forbid) actually go visit your site. Furthermore, contrary to frequent demurrals, there is no rule against self-linking in comments. We're not supposed to make front-page posts about sites or projects we're personally involved with; I would think the reasons for this would be blindingly obvious, but if you need them spelled out go visit one of the many, many MetaTalk threads where this has been hashed out.
posted by languagehat at 7:26 AM on December 12, 2004 [1 favorite]
Oh for god's sake. Is it that hard to understand the no-self-link principle? Go read the posting guidelines again. It doesn't say anything about increasing the risk that people might check your user page and (god forbid) actually go visit your site. Furthermore, contrary to frequent demurrals, there is no rule against self-linking in comments. We're not supposed to make front-page posts about sites or projects we're personally involved with; I would think the reasons for this would be blindingly obvious, but if you need them spelled out go visit one of the many, many MetaTalk threads where this has been hashed out.
posted by languagehat at 7:26 AM on December 12, 2004 [1 favorite]
Not that I think you're actually keeping count, Pastor Howie, but like many of my fellow parishoners here, I too am of the opinion that the bad precedent set trumps any value here. There's room for (usually healthy) debate on what makes a good post, but the this one breaks the only "rule" we have that's not open to interpretation. I really wish you'd held the line on this one...
posted by JollyWanker at 8:15 AM on December 12, 2004
posted by JollyWanker at 8:15 AM on December 12, 2004
"Held the line"? Matt has allowed several self-posts to stand over MetaFilter's history. The bar is just a lot higher for those types of posts.
posted by kindall at 1:36 PM on December 12, 2004
posted by kindall at 1:36 PM on December 12, 2004
Well, I'm not exactly the most prolific front page poster in the community, so my questions are more theoretical than practical. It's interesting that the line is drawn between direct and indirect promotion; I can post hundreds or thousands of comments, indirectly promoting myself without a twitter of disapproval, while I cannot post a single article directly promoting myself without a chorus of dissent. (And, for the record, I trust that the rule exists for a reason, and I have faith in the community's support of the rule.)
posted by crysflame at 4:39 PM on December 12, 2004
posted by crysflame at 4:39 PM on December 12, 2004
It's interesting that the line is drawn between direct and indirect promotion...
Perhaps as interesting as the line between black and white. Maybe you should start an AskMe thread about the "line" between indirect and direct self-promotion. Really. I suspect you'll find out how interesting it is to others.
posted by squirrel at 6:43 PM on December 12, 2004
Perhaps as interesting as the line between black and white. Maybe you should start an AskMe thread about the "line" between indirect and direct self-promotion. Really. I suspect you'll find out how interesting it is to others.
posted by squirrel at 6:43 PM on December 12, 2004
Posteth jacquilynne: There is a list.
And a link to:
MeFiMentor: If you're one of the bazillion new folks here and have a question or two that maybe seems too dorky for MetaTalk and too 'Filter related for AskMe, or maybe you just want to run a front page post by someone, feel free to IM someone who's been around the block a bit. Willing old-timers inside...
I recall that. I did not take that phrase that's now in bold to mean "we'll post your links to your own webpages for you", but "we'll tell you whether your post is utter shite or not." It's not quite the same thing.
posted by davy at 9:45 PM on December 12, 2004
And a link to:
MeFiMentor: If you're one of the bazillion new folks here and have a question or two that maybe seems too dorky for MetaTalk and too 'Filter related for AskMe, or maybe you just want to run a front page post by someone, feel free to IM someone who's been around the block a bit. Willing old-timers inside...
I recall that. I did not take that phrase that's now in bold to mean "we'll post your links to your own webpages for you", but "we'll tell you whether your post is utter shite or not." It's not quite the same thing.
posted by davy at 9:45 PM on December 12, 2004
I once had a self-link page that I wanted to share. It was a communication study about MetaFilter, focusing on an exchange between two warring users. I e-mailed the link to five people I had never contacted directly before, but who seemed to generally like the subject. I got two tepid replies and one enthusiastic response by a user who wanted to post it in MetaTalk. He posted it and we had a great conversation about it.
posted by squirrel at 12:45 AM on December 13, 2004
posted by squirrel at 12:45 AM on December 13, 2004
I can post hundreds or thousands of comments, indirectly promoting myself without a twitter of disapproval
Well, for one thing, you're wrong about this. While no one generally gets strung up for linking, in comments, to something they made, if you start doing it willy nilly, off-topic, and often, you will be noticed and eventually dealt with. It's just not as urgent a directive in comments as it is in front page posts. It's a matter of degrees, not a matter of black and white.
posted by scarabic at 10:26 AM on December 13, 2004
Well, for one thing, you're wrong about this. While no one generally gets strung up for linking, in comments, to something they made, if you start doing it willy nilly, off-topic, and often, you will be noticed and eventually dealt with. It's just not as urgent a directive in comments as it is in front page posts. It's a matter of degrees, not a matter of black and white.
posted by scarabic at 10:26 AM on December 13, 2004
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posted by scarabic at 8:34 PM on December 10, 2004