Good descriptions wanted on front page

August 31, 2001 11:27 AM

is there any good way to encourage people to post real descriptions (of any kind!!!) to front page posts? please? it's tiring wanting to click a link without having any idea what the post is actually about. and the comments on that thread (at least the first few, when i saw it) don't exactly help.
posted by dogmatic to Etiquette/Policy at 11:27 AM (77 comments total)

Maybe what we need is a Gallery of Bad Posts--actual, but deleted, posts are pinned up for public viewing with commentary on what was wrong with them, and how they could have been improved.
posted by darukaru at 12:06 PM on August 31, 2001

With so many links to choose from, I skipped Kino's terrible post. If you can't muster enough interest in a link to describe it, don't post it here.
posted by rcade at 12:22 PM on August 31, 2001

From the poor linker himself:

----------------------------------------
'a description would be nice'

If it led to something that wasn't beyond description you'd have a case, but as it is, the one i gave is fine. I find it hard to believe that anyone could be so BLAND as to stroll into the trippyness of everyone elses entertaining comments with a whining moan and self-link to their metatalk thread created especially for the occasion dogmatic.. and all because i committed the heinous crime of [gasp.. shock... horror..] not supplying a description!.

'a working link, too'

Go and clean your mouse, moaning-arse.
------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really growing tired of this. Months ago, when someone did something inconsiderate, the group would say so, and the offender would contritely consider his actions, and change his behavior in the future. That's how this community policed itself, and it worked. Then everyone started bitching about the "MeFi Cops", and how their freedom of expression was being repressed. The policing stopped, and now everyone feels completely justified in insulting each other personally whenever someone questions their judgment.

That's bullshit. Kino: linking on the front page without a description was poor posting. It sucked. It was bad for MeFi. I'm sure you wowed loads of readers with your clever little punctuation post, but you did it at the expense of Metafilter as a whole.

And your insulting comments in defense of it is just inexcusable. You want to show off, or mouth off, do it on your own blog. But take that shit out of here.
posted by jpoulos at 12:27 PM on August 31, 2001

Furthermore, the phrase "and self-link to their metatalk thread created especially for the occasion" indicates a stunning lack of understanding of both the self-linking rule and the purpose of MetaTalk, unless I'm quite mistaken. Isn't the recommended behavior, when making a complaint like this, to create a thread in MeTa and post a brief link to it in the original thread?
posted by moss at 12:33 PM on August 31, 2001

Keep on thinking you're better than all of us, Kino. It'll be wonderful comfort when you're banned.
posted by darukaru at 12:39 PM on August 31, 2001

Thanks, Kino. For posting a shitty link, posting a shitty defense of your link, using the discussion to taunt people in MetaTalk, and attracting the admiration of gomers who post things like this:

If you need your MetaFilter World so neat and tidy and controlled, maybe you should go find something better to do.

Way to keep it real, Kino.
posted by rcade at 12:42 PM on August 31, 2001

jpoulos, wind your neck in. It's hardly as if i've damaged metafilter. Telling someone 'this that your about to see is really wierd/sad/funny/pretty/suprizing/etc and it's filled with [....] and [.....]'s' (mad funky french songs and cartoon bunnies with shotguns in this case) it's liable to take something away from it. The person will enjoy it less. Seeing 'i¿!?i' on MeFi's front page would suggest to me that it's probable the link will brighten up my day somehow, which was the desired effect. Well, before you lot here chipped in and made it all an oh-so-negative experience.

As for you darukaru, there isn't much i can do for your inferiority complex, but i'm not sure what gave you cause to make that last comment.
posted by Kino at 12:44 PM on August 31, 2001

I was almost going to say something in the post about the lack of description, if only to prevent someone from reposting it next week. Every Joe who stumbles upon this little animation outside of MeFi won't know it's already been posted here unless they follow the link.

But in the end, when you're dealing what stuff like this, how can you really describe it? Maybe we should have an unofficial ban on implied "This is the next AYBABTU..." Flash animations. Yeah, they're cute, but what is there to discuss about them anyway?
posted by turaho at 12:45 PM on August 31, 2001

Thanks, Kino. For posting a shitty link

Perhaps the link isn't for you rcade.. but many others seemed to enjoy it.
posted by Kino at 12:46 PM on August 31, 2001

Whatever. Metafilter is not your playground. The purpose of this site is not posting links to please yourself. If you want to do that, get your own weblog. The fact that you continue to disregard this fact shows that you believe yourself to be above the rules of this site.
posted by darukaru at 12:48 PM on August 31, 2001

Perhaps the link isn't for you rcade.. but many others seemed to enjoy it.

The thing I'm criticizing about the link is the way you presented it here. "Look, kids, this link so inexplicable I'm not even going to describe it! I'm so wacky and original! Nobody ever does this on MetaFilter! They're so bland!"
posted by rcade at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2001

i continue to disregard? how so? if your going to make a claim of that sort at least back it up somehow. that link wasn't to please me, i'd obviously seen the animation - i posted it so others could see it. so what's your problem?
posted by Kino at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2001

'Look, kids, this link so inexplicable I'm not even going to describe it! I'm so wacky and original! Nobody ever does this on MetaFilter! They're so bland!'

if you read all that into something so innocent then it seems you and darukaru must have shared some past experience along the line, rcade. i wasn't being (or trying to be) anything of the sort.
posted by Kino at 12:57 PM on August 31, 2001

Now that I'm channeling Kino, I can't stop ...

"I hate my parents and all their stupid rules! To hell with them and their pedestrian middle-class consumerist values! They're not the boss of me! I'm gonna live, baby! Nobody tells me what to do! Matt's not the boss of me either! Haw haw, look at those rubes with all their pissing and moaning in MetaTalk! I feel sorry for them! This is Kino's world and you're just livin' in it! King of the world!"
posted by rcade at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2001

and if i thought people on metafilter were bland i wouldn't BE HERE!
posted by Kino at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2001

Kino: You have to admit, a description would have helped. Lately, it's not uncommon to get more front page posts than there are hours in the day, and wading through all of that is hard. A description lets people who aren't interested skip on by, and saves them time. To say nothing of the inevitable double post that might be prevented by a description.

But more importantly, your responses (both here and in your thread) have been completely inappropriate. Don't take so much offense just because we disagree with you; certainly don't react with anger and vitriol. Metafilter is different from other online forums by design. In the future, please respect the culture of this place.

Incidentally, I got the same impression of your opinion as rcade (excluding his last post, anyway. Sorry, rcade, but it looks to me like you're reacting almost as poorly as Kino.) Kino, maybe you're just not coming off the way that you intend to. God knows I've done that before.
posted by gd779 at 1:01 PM on August 31, 2001

If anyones out of order here it's you rcade. Your diahrea above is hardly worth commenting on - it gives more insight into your mind and attitutudes than mine. It could be about anyone, just so happens it was triggered by something i did. How anyone can deduce all that from someone linking a flash animation with a few question marks is beyond me.
posted by Kino at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2001

gd779: After this post, I think ridicule's the appropriate response.

Besides, you're not the boss of me!
posted by rcade at 1:10 PM on August 31, 2001

"Waahhhh! You're being more childish than I am!" And I don't gave a rat's ass who started it. But for pete's sake, a note that it was a link to some kind of Flash video would have been a less completely useless way to link it.
posted by harmful at 1:15 PM on August 31, 2001

When I consider posting to the front of Metafilter these days I have considerable criteria to filter out the stuff that deserves to be a simple link on my personal blog.

If the 'filter' in Metafilter is supposed to mean anything, then it means a front page post should not be a "me too" link and should actually be worthy talking about. The filter should not screen out some attempt at a description.

Obviously this is not a view held by all, but when you post you should try to be considerate of the different members of Metafilter and their expectations. Especially when these expectations are not unreasonable or hard to address. So if your link doesn't promote discussion but you feel compelled to post it anyway, at least give people a clue. The post could have easily been made as 'i¿!?i (an animation that defies description, but may entertain).' Don't assume anyone knows what you mean by 'i¿!?i.'

Please end this hostility. You would not be this rude in person and it doesn't help any of your points.
posted by john at 1:32 PM on August 31, 2001

Since everyone has different interests and tastes, a descriptionless link says only one thing to me: "I don't care that some of you will waste your time clicking this link and finding something completely uninteresting. I like it and you should, too." rcade's "channelling" doesn't seem too far off.
posted by mw at 1:33 PM on August 31, 2001

And I don't gave a rat's ass who started it.

People want to turn everything into a personal dispute. I don't have anything against Kino, I just find it extremely tiresome when someone responds to criticism in MetaTalk by attacking the entire concept of a self-policing community that cares about the place, instead of at least considering the remote possibility that he might have fucked up.

We've already tried sincere, and Kino (along with others) laughed that off. So why not try ridicule? I was too harsh, but I'm tired of wading through all the BS that greets every effort to speak up for the quality of MetaFilter. Every day, we seem to attract a new anonymous user who has joined up to take personal shots and thumb his nose at our netiquette.

Tell me, those of you who still have some patience where these issues are concerned: What's the proper response to that?
posted by rcade at 1:34 PM on August 31, 2001

I would probably say the proper response would be to ignore it, and let it work itself out. If it becomes too problematic then I'm sure Matt can handle it fairly well.

On second though, you tie him up, while I go get my baseball bat.
posted by howa2396 at 1:48 PM on August 31, 2001

and by saying "on second though" i meant, "on second thought" but that was probably clear enough that this personal correction was uncalled for.
posted by howa2396 at 1:49 PM on August 31, 2001

I think the front page post should be removed. Nothing personal, Kino. I just think it was badly posted.
posted by Kafkaesque at 1:52 PM on August 31, 2001

rcade,

I sympathize with your reaction. Kino's attitude is of one that assumes he is right and he doesn't need to be helpful to those that don't have an innate understanding of a series of punctuation symbols.

I think it's a kind of tragedy of the commons that any standard of discourse can be rejected by those that have no stake in cultivating a 'better' one. They can't cope with a meaningful dialogue and try and bring things down to their level. If someone is trying to contribute something and makes an error of judgement, the rubes don't apologize.

The thing I try to do is walk away and post something when I calm down. It certainly can be less satisfying, but you have less regrets later.
posted by john at 2:06 PM on August 31, 2001

It was a poor post. Lack of description means I don't click on it: could be porn, could be something that will crash my system, could be a self-link, could just be something that I don't want to waste my time looking at, etc. If everyone posted descriptionless links to the homepage MeFi would quickly become useless. And besides, it's almost certainly going to get double-posted because there's really no way to search for it.

However. I think that much of the above is an overreaction. Just ignore it guys, like I did. No reason to remove it, no reason for this metatalk thread either, really (unless it *had* been for porn or something...)

However! I think your overreaction to the overreaction is absurd, Kino. You know that descriptionless links aren't kosher, don't pretend otherwise Why can't you just say "yeah, descriptionless link, sorry guys" If you had said that when you were first called on it we would have long since had a group hug and moved on.

Maybe we should make the last day of each month Free-For-All Day here on MeFi: double-posts, self-links, descriptionless and linkless posts ... everything is fair game. Then those who feel like they have to post such stuff can get it out of their systems and those who abhor such posts can just skip a day.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 2:09 PM on August 31, 2001

Is it me, or are people taking things WAY too personally around here lately? I haven't seen so many personal attacks in awhile (although that may be because I've been avoiding the political threads for awhile).

That is/was the one outstanding thing I felt about this place. There was actual discussion without sniping, or cheap shots. It's become less of a conversation than an argument in (or about) damn near every thread.
posted by tj at 2:14 PM on August 31, 2001

No it isn't!
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:21 PM on August 31, 2001

Heh. Sorry.

couldn't resist.
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:21 PM on August 31, 2001

Yer lookin' to be hit over the head, aintcha?
posted by harmful at 2:34 PM on August 31, 2001

Maybe we should make the last day of each month Free-For-All Day here on MeFi:

Well, if you want free-for-all, a reminder that Globalgasm starts at Midnight.

Is it me, or are people taking things WAY too personally around here lately?

Definitely, myself included, but not without cause. We've reached a critical mass of bad posts and bad discussions, and some of us are completely fed up with it. Kino's was hardly the worst offense I've seen at MeFi--his reaction is really what set me off. But after 2 weeks of BS, it was more than I, for one, could stand.
posted by jpoulos at 3:12 PM on August 31, 2001

kino:

your link title was not as interesting as you seem to think. now, if you were to say, have written "(_|_)" -- that would be interesting. but weird little punctuation marks? please. i would also appreciate any link titles of "( . ) ( . )", and for the ladies in the house, possibly "O>--%<" would serve.
posted by moz at 4:03 PM on August 31, 2001

I thought it represented cursing, some sort of righteous indignation. (I didn't follow the link and still don't know what it pointed to even after reading the thread.)
posted by Steven Den Beste at 4:28 PM on August 31, 2001

Kino seems to have mistaken MeFi for SlashDot. Kino has mistaken being an ass for genius. That seems to work on Slashdot, so please take your unappreciated wit there.

I liked the link, but only clicked it after a MeFi member I knew to trust commented on it.
posted by vanderwal at 5:03 PM on August 31, 2001

Link descriptions aside, this comment should have this added to it in regards to Kino's post:

Is this something that would be better suited to FilePile.org?
posted by machaus at 5:39 PM on August 31, 2001

skallas: Don't judge my front page posts on the merits of one, or define me as being a member of any sort of ilk because of it. When you see a pattern emerging - feel free, but not on the basis of one. Anything less just defeats your reason for saying it..

venderwal: Don't call me an ass, especially when your motive is pure bitterness at this post three days ago. If you're ever gonna reply to it, do it in the right place, and not where you can conveniently hitch a ride on other peoples shoulders..

moz, i didn't think my 'weird little punctuation marks?' were 'interesting'.. they were about as interesting as my next full stop. Which is purely functional and exists only to serve a purpose. Those 'weird little punctuation marks?' were made to simulate the expression of 'mild astonishment'. btw.. yahoo chat's that way ------->

Macheus: I think it's as deserving of a place on both MeFi and FilePile.

'his reaction is really what set me off'

jpoulos: I didn't realize that it was also was frowned upon for people to defend themselves. I called someone a moaning-arse because they were acting like one; big deal.

If anything needs examining it's not my response or my choice of how i wanted to represented a link: it's your conceited attitude and condescending opinion of metafilter in general when you state such things as 'We've reached a critical mass of bad posts and bad discussions....' in explanation of your fish-wife style nit-picking. Can you even imagine how insulting that statement is to this community?. How self-centred it is? And how many people would beg to differ?. If you don't like the place then [..insert your own ending here]. Nobody needs any more self-appointed critics-of-quality to sit around patronizing everyone else with statements like that. You weazel.

Speaking of defending oneself, (urghghgh) here we go.. Oh, and before i start i just want to make it clear that i am aware that i could have just left you all to stew in your own ridiculiousness at having gone nuts about something so trivial, but.. what the hell.. i'm here now and that aint my style...

Why can't you just say "yeah, descriptionless link, sorry guys"

Hi Shadowkeeper: Well, firstly, i didn't find it to be unfoundedly over-descriptionless. Secondly, it's because someone came barging into the thread and blemished the happy vibe in their by moaning about the way it was posted, and that the url didn't work (when in fact it did). and went so far as to link to a little empty (at the time) metatalk thread that they'd made about it which in turn was pointing to the one they barged into and soiled. It all felt a bit, erm, disruptive and oddly Mobius-like to say the least.

I won't be made a scapegoat for any little packs of bitter busy-bodies perceived general concerns/pent up anger/worries about metafilter past and present (or whatever it is in their life that causes their conditions), all because i didn't format a front page post 'correctly', as my overall contribution to the place (and other users i've seen it happen to) doesn't merit the collective venom.. As tj rightly points out - that crap occurs all to often to people around here. That's one reason i don't really involve myself in Metatalk... but that's another story..

Other users can feel free to spend their time pointing the 'behavioural-finger' and do stuff like link to them users posts up there ^^^^ citing them as the examples of what's so wrong with the world whilst analyzing every microscopic detail of this place (given the slightest chance to), that's their choice, but such behaviour has nothing to do with any recent front page post of mine which, in some peoples opinion, is flawed. The way i presented the link is not the catalyst of some imaginary downward spiral to be scrutinized and examined for all the answers. So what if i did a series of punctuation marks pointing to some bizarre French flash thingy. That's what i felt like doing. Stone me. I don't make a habit of doing that and it seemed to me at the time to be pretty descriptive of the type of content it was; it was a slightly abstract illustration of how the content is liable to leave one feeling immediately after viewing it. I didn't want to show what was on the website, but rather - how it made you feel. And if anyone disapproves of that it doesn't mean i have to allow them to tarnish the the otherwise light-hearted and funky thread and then go on to attack me.

'I was too harsh, but I'm tired of wading through all the BS.....'

Ha, no.. no.. no.. you was only harsh on yourself rcade. You had a little tantrum up there. It looked funny. That's all. it was plainly obvious it came from inside and couldn't really have been aimed at the 'crime' of a person not posting an in-depth description on a flashlink. In fact, it was quite an animated little insight into aspects of your character. Oh, and that you've yet to read the art of war.

gd770.. i reacted in an honest way and kept it pretty minimal. This is one of the most absurd, blown out of proportion threads imaginable. So, bemused, i just left it for a while to naturally fall back down into reality before returning to address any real issues raised. Unfortunately - There doesn't seem to be many. I must say though - i did find myself mildly disgusted at the general pack attitude earlier. Like little fly's picking a scrap of meat to swarm on.

Oh, and i see the point about averting doubleposts but infact keywording that animation so as to prevent future instances of it would have been a very, very hit-and-miss chancy affair. If the link had led to something morally questionable and/or ultimately contentless then i'd hold my hand up and say i was wrong for not giving people the chance to make an informed choice on the subject matter prior to clicking it, but that wasn't the case. Instead, it led to the type of thing most people would expect to be at the end of an 'astonished' looking question mark sequence; Not all emoticons are smiles.

At the end of the day, your either the type to click a link like that or you not, and if you did, it was probably worth your while, if you didn't - then it's only one line to the next post. This really shouldn't be any bigger an issue than that. One line of front page space + the ample amounts of people that did click and enjoy it = justified it's existence. Out of the hundreds of MeFi posts i've made the absolute rarity of a one word type-link leading to something i found too odd to describe with anything other than a bit of symbolism isn't such a crime. I think a pattern of topsy-turvy exclamations/question marks was as good a signal of 'impending oddity' as any could be. That was the description. To eliminate the element of surprise by graphically reviewing the film would have only served to diminish the viewers enjoyment. SoOoOo....

To whom it may apply: Stop. Think, and get this in proportion. I wont be held accountable for MeFi posting trends in general. If people don't like a particular phenomena don't attempt to take it all out on me, or anyone else, when i, or they, do something slightly reminiscent of said frowned upon behaviours because i, for one, won't accept that mob mentality shit from a small bunch of people intent on making/sustaining/attaining an elite-little-clique powered by their own conservative-mediocrity and imaginary rulebook waving, convention enforcing, self-serving righteousness. Tipper Gore would be well-proud but i'm sorry to break the news: The way up any sort of community pecking order isn't to come running in here to metatalk-etiquette after hurriedly selecting a 'wrong' that you think, due to pack mentalities, people will adjust their brassieres and nod along with. Now, i'm not saying that's all that happens here, but this thread proves what a monster such vibes can become and i consider people who use this forum *purely* for their own weak and sneaky ends to be guilty of abusing the place.. This here is a leech filled thread and i feel well within my rights to state my opinion of any leech's that might be reading and planning their self-serving moves. Yeah, that means YOU. Do you feel dirty? You should..

People like you need to either a/ lighten up b/ get out more or c/ get things in perspective when they happen to be having a bit of a bad day (which the sight of bunnies with guns should have temporarily cured anyway). End of story. Now go do something productive and channel your energy into activities a little more rewarding to the group by rebuilding the MeFi stage from the carnage that you appear to think my so called 'descriptionless link' has caused. I know it sounds hard to believe, and perhaps a tad optimistic of me, but despite my lack of a description in that post the MeFi-Pheonix can rise again. <--- And if you feel any of that doesn't apply to you, just ignore it; you aren't its target anyway.

posted by Kino at 7:02 PM on August 31, 2001

(Yes, it's elitist of me, but) I don't read diatribes by anyone who can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're".

Kino, you are in the wrong here. Page-long harangues about why the MeFi guidelines don't apply to you say only one thing: I have no respect for the audience I was allegedly trying to reach. This isn't a surprise; your front-page post, as well as every followup, said the same thing. Don't be surprised when you are shown a similar lack of respect.
posted by gleuschk at 7:21 PM on August 31, 2001

Oh here we go, we've stooped to grammar now. And clichéd grammar corrections at that. What next i wonder... And i don't think MeFi guidelines don't apply to me; Guidelines apply to everyone in a community but that is no justification for the type of behaviour that regularily goes on by some elements in their name.
posted by Kino at 7:45 PM on August 31, 2001

"I hate my parents and all their stupid rules! To hell with them and their pedestrian middle-class consumerist values! They're not the boss of me! I'm gonna live, baby! Nobody tells me what to do! Matt's not the boss of me either! Haw haw, look at those rubes with all their pissing and moaning in MetaTalk! I feel sorry for them! This is Kino's world and you're just livin' in it! King of the world!"

posted by rcade at 7:53 PM on August 31, 2001

'I don't read diatribes by anyone who can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're"

Ps. gleuschk: These conflicting statements prove you to be a lier. Unless, of course, someone read it for you...

'Page-long harangues about why the MeFi guidelines don't apply to you say only one thing'

(And for gawds sake rcade, at least come up with some original content.. your giving us a groundhog day)
posted by Kino at 8:00 PM on August 31, 2001

*sob* I thought I was the king of the world.

Kino, I don't have a dog in this fight. However, having just read the post in question, viewed the link, read the comments, including the polite queries about why folks would have liked a description (which is strongly encouraged in the posting page), and your subsequent responses, I can only conclude that you posted the way that you did in order to be contrary.

Furthermore, while you say that you will not be held responsible for posting actions in MeFi in general (which is true, no one person can ever augur the downfall of MeFi), your behavior (during and after the initial post) communicate nothing but disdain for other community members, especially those who provided criticism.

In the future, I will be less likely to take your posts or your comments seriously. Sorry.
posted by Avogadro at 8:05 PM on August 31, 2001

Everybody: time to give up on this prancing ass. He is never going to respond in any way other than metaphorically sticking his fingers in his ears, saying 'nyeah nyeah', and vomiting out the dictionary.
posted by darukaru at 8:08 PM on August 31, 2001

is it possible for you people to be social without moaning incessantly?

he posted a link with a description that fitted, but had no words, *GET THE FUCK OVER IT!*

there are children dying in uganda, or somewhere. this issue is pure piffle.

today, i'm embarrassed to have a metafilter account.
posted by titboy at 8:14 PM on August 31, 2001

I'm embarrassed you have a MetaFilter account too, Titboy.

Just kidding (really, honest). The punchline was too easy to let slide, like when someone says, "I didn't come here to be insulted."
posted by rcade at 8:19 PM on August 31, 2001

'he posted a link with a description that fitted, but had no words, *GET THE FUCK OVER IT!*

Bravo titboy, looks like whoever spiked the punch around here had a witness that then stuck to lager. ^__^

'I can only conclude that you posted the way that you did in order to be contrary

Avagadro: My intent was not to be contrary. I can't believe anyone whose read my posts could come to that conclusion. I've explained fully, more than once, why i posted how i did.

'including the polite queries about why folks would have liked a description'

i can only surmise that the above is referring to the person who asked where the link originated which was already answered in the thread before i had the chance. Otherwise you'd have to either rephrase the statement or be more specific.

'In the future, I will be less likely to take your posts or your comments seriously. Sorry'

Unfortunate that you make the judgement you have - i don't find it to be a loss - just an incorrect assessment of my attitude. If you won't take my future posts and comments seriously, despite my obvious sincerity, then that's an issue of your own and not really my concern. But good luck.

'Everybody: time to give up on this prancing ass. He is never going to respond in any way other than metaphorically sticking his fingers in his ears, saying 'nyeah nyeah', and vomiting out the dictionary'

As for you darukaru: i'd expect that. This isn't the first time i've addressed your pathetic two-line attempts at 'smart-arsed-ness' and you've sidestepped out the thread.

Now besides grammar stoops, people re-hashing their previous posts, darukaru making a fool of himself, and Titboy injecting the voice of reason, are any of my detractors going to intelligently discuss anything?
posted by Kino at 8:50 PM on August 31, 2001

I'd like to point something out to any newbies that may be reading this thread. Note: In what I'm going to say next, I don't mean to single Kino out; others here probably added fuel to the fire. But Kino was the clear leader, originating attacks well out of proportion to the comments he had received.

In my personal opinion, Kino's lack of description on his front page link was unusual, and maybe mildly inappropriate. Not really a big deal in and of itself; we'd talk about it for a few minutes, then move on.

Kino's responses, however, provide an excellent case study in appropriate Metafilter behavior. Kino felt attacked, and he responded in kind. He was insulting and demeaning. This was wrong. Insults, hostility, and personal attacks are virtually never appropriate here on Metafilter. There are exceptions, but they are very rare. This community is defined by it's committment to respect, civility, and trust. If Kino had simply said "I'm sorry", or even "here's why I think what I did was a good idea", this would have been over long ago.

So show respect for other people's opinions. If you feel that someone might be attacking you, give him/her the benefit of the doubt. Trust one another. Never engage in insults, hostility, or personal attacks. Read the guidlines; they're descriptions of appropriate behavior written by the guy who pays the bills around here. And, above all, do everything you can to raise the level of intelligent discussion in this place.
posted by gd779 at 9:24 PM on August 31, 2001

gd779: i would feel valid in using the term "moan-arse", if within 25 minutes of posting a link, somebody had already started a metatalk thread complaining about it.
posted by titboy at 9:46 PM on August 31, 2001

Besides, you're not the boss of me!

rcade: Ha! This is just another attempt by the Metafilter elite to still the voice of the commoners. Just because your User ID is ½ of mine, you think that you’re better than me, don’t you? DON’T YOU??? Well, you won’t silence me that easily. Power to the people! Vive la Revolution!

Besides, it’s those users over 10,000 that are causing the trouble around here. They’re the ones to blame for all our problems! Can I join the Metafilter cabal now?

posted by gd779 at 9:47 PM on August 31, 2001

Titboy: It’s the tone of the entire post, not just that one phrase. Besides, personal insults are never appropriate, regardless of circumstance, because they aren’t constructive. Either say something that raises the level of intelligent discourse or don’t say anything at all.
posted by gd779 at 9:51 PM on August 31, 2001

you think this metatalk raises the level of intelligent discourse?
posted by titboy at 9:55 PM on August 31, 2001

let me know when you stop posting and I'll get back to you.
posted by machaus at 9:56 PM on August 31, 2001

i would feel valid in using the term "moan-arse", if within 25 minutes of posting a link, somebody had already started a metatalk thread complaining about it.

C'mon, Titboy, be honest. You'd feel valid using the term "moan-arse" in any context.
posted by rcade at 10:03 PM on August 31, 2001

I want to point out that picking Kino apart is not the goal here. If you were to go through my old posts, I've probably made dozens of posts that didn’t live up to the standards I outlined above. The point here is to identify what is and is not appropriate behavior here on Metafilter, encourage the good and discourage the bad. God knows that everybody makes mistakes at one point or another. Today is probably just Kino’s lucky day. (If you're talking to me, machaus, I'm all done now. Sorry I've made so many posts; it's late here and my thoughts are scattered.)
posted by gd779 at 10:03 PM on August 31, 2001

rcade: you're just loving my nick aren't ya ;)

just like it was fun to hassle the guy at school called randy. didn't matter whether he was making a valid point or not, his name was randy!
posted by titboy at 10:09 PM on August 31, 2001

No, no, to mammaryboy. I detest the lack of accountability and contrition evident by people on someone else's server. You really have to think of it that way.
posted by machaus at 10:10 PM on August 31, 2001

I'm just waiting to see who busts out a nice Lick me, Fucko first.
posted by NortonDC at 10:19 PM on August 31, 2001

nortondc: do you think that would operate like godwin's law?
posted by titboy at 10:35 PM on August 31, 2001

G's L (gisselle?) need's a Palestine/Israel corrollary.

Anyone register the userid Mr. Fucko yet?
posted by NortonDC at 10:49 PM on August 31, 2001

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I am now officially saying goodbye to MeFi and MeTa for now, this along with the other MeTa thread (somewhat related) has made me only respect some of the newer people more (and wonder why they want in so much). I'm sorry to those whose whom expectations I have not lived up to, yet I'm also filled with an extreme amount of vitriol for members of this community who yearn for 'the good ole days' where they felt like they were part of some cabal.

For the record, the 'cabal' thing was a somewhat funny joke for awhile, but it seems like it's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those who have decided that they know what is best for Matt's site (let all of you please not forget this) have become crusaders recently, to the point of browbeating others.

Good bye and and so long, it was fun
posted by tj at 11:11 PM on August 31, 2001

Wow, what a nice way to lump the community into big feral ball of rancor.

Tj, you are taking the walking away thing to a bit of an extreme. I don't know what to do. I think we are beyond cute kittens and ice cream.

The Bug Lord beseechs you stay because everything is A-OKAY!

posted by john at 12:25 AM on September 1, 2001

The Buglord doesn't need to spell 'beseeches' right either.
posted by john at 12:29 AM on September 1, 2001

Well, I was gonna stay on MetaFilter, but the Bug Lord just scared the living crap out of me, so I'm outta here. Jesus. *shudder*
posted by webmutant at 12:58 AM on September 1, 2001

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I am now officially saying goodbye to MeFi and MeTa for now ...

Can someone else explain why so many people turn into Joan Crawford when leaving an online community?
posted by rcade at 4:45 AM on September 1, 2001

arg
posted by vanderwal at 5:16 AM on September 1, 2001

I haven't seen this volume of pointless typing since I tried to read that Tom Clancy book. I'm impressed by the effort.
posted by dong_resin at 10:48 AM on September 1, 2001

Er, I'm impressed by the effort, fucko.
posted by dong_resin at 10:49 AM on September 1, 2001

By the way, Kino, I think your presentation of the post sucked, too. And the link itself wasn't all that much, either.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:41 PM on September 1, 2001

By the way, mo nickels: i couldn't give a damn. Many others enjoyed the link - that's good enough for me. It served its purpose - despite the bullshit its presentation provoked.
posted by Kino at 2:48 PM on September 1, 2001

*says last rites over this MetaTalk thread*

And they all went their separate ways, happy and, just maybe, a little wiser for their big adventure!

Let's all kiss and make up. I think there's room for everybody here.

k
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:11 PM on September 1, 2001

You're right, K.

Kino, I love you. *smooooch*

posted by jpoulos at 10:03 PM on September 1, 2001

Hang on but.. ..behaviour really appropr.. ..MeF... ...ecially when you've been eating fish!... ..nd i don't do tha.. ..rubbergloves... ..margerine!?... ..man get that thing away from m... ..greased ponys? don't think so!... not upside down anyw.... so just find som.. and.. and.. [repeat to fade]
posted by Kino at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2001

wow, I never thought I was funnier drunk than sober before .. but apparently that's the case.. maybe it seemed more heartfelt or whatever, but damn, you poeple can be snarky.

the sober tj who's had better things to do

neener neener
posted by tj at 1:19 AM on September 3, 2001

here here tj
posted by Satapher at 9:59 AM on September 26, 2001

Too many people here at MeFi don't play well with others. They don't follow the rules about posting, and then when they are rightfully called out on it, they get all pissy or mopey and start flinging shit.

Calm down people. Debate is fun and good for you. And if you're the sensitive type, just follow the rules and nobody will ever pick on you.
posted by jennak at 1:12 PM on September 26, 2001