Attention first-time posters

December 30, 2004 10:51 AM

Attention first-time posters: hpsell recently made a hideous front-page post that violated just about every possible rule. Inevitably, he was greeted with a barrage of negative responses: [bad bad bad], "I'm not going to make fun of you because I strongly suspect that you're retarded," and the like. Did he whine, counterattack, or curl up into a ball and hide? No, he said "i didnt mean to ruffle any feathers... ill try to do better with the grammar." [more inside]
posted by languagehat to etiquette/policy at 10:51 AM (83 comments total)

Faced with a further pileon ("Worst FPP ever," "I thought Seth went over the top on MeTa. Then I read this post," &c), he came back with: "Please note that I have read all of your comments and will try to do better when I attempt a second post. Live and learn." The immediate response was "hpsell is a good sport," to which others immediately agreed (as do I). Lesson: if you screw up, you will get yelled at; if you don't take it personally but apologize and promise to do better, you will be accepted. Observe and learn. And welcome, hpsell!
posted by languagehat at 10:51 AM on December 30, 2004

Lesson #2: post bad posts when Matt is away and they'll last forever.
posted by smackfu at 10:53 AM on December 30, 2004

Yes, good work.. Thick skinned and willing.
posted by Frasermoo at 10:55 AM on December 30, 2004

Grim first post, but good recovery, hpsell.
posted by apocalypse miaow at 11:01 AM on December 30, 2004

I really hate when people use "&c". Are you so pretentious that you just can't use "etc" like normal individuals?
posted by xmutex at 11:01 AM on December 30, 2004

I really hate it when people use "etc". Can't they properly abbreviate et cetera as "etc."?

Pedant? Sir, why, "pedant" is not my middle name!

("&c" is actually much older.)
posted by eriko at 11:07 AM on December 30, 2004

I use U.S.W. even though I speak no German just to piss people like you off.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:07 AM on December 30, 2004

I really hate when people use "&c". Are you so pretentious that you just can't use "etc" like normal individuals?

I really like "&c". Are you such an asshole that you just can't use what you prefer and let others use what they prefer? Or do you perhaps not realize that & is a compound symbol made up of e+t?
posted by languagehat at 11:10 AM on December 30, 2004

xmutex: It's "ampersand cetera," because "&" is a, well, here, Wikipedia.

On preview, nevermind.
posted by Floydd at 11:11 AM on December 30, 2004

It's also worth mentioning that almost everyone uses et cetera incorrectly. So, basically, we're all pretentious morons.

Haha! No, really, it's just me.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:11 AM on December 30, 2004

Oh, yeah, while we're piling on, et cetera, "and the rest", should not be used in reference to people. Instead, you et alii, or "et al.", which is "and other." To be correct in Latin, you should use et aliae when referring solely to other females.

Or you could do what I do, and write "and those other idiots."
posted by eriko at 11:13 AM on December 30, 2004

I just want to commend, among others, Sidhedevil for posting an excellent response that doesn't just tell hpsell what was wrong with the post, but how to make a good post, and hpsell for being the model of a good sport and of how to take criticism.

If all criticism was in Sidhedevil style, and all criticized had hpsell style, Mefi would return to the civilized days of yore in just a few weeks.
posted by Bugbread at 11:15 AM on December 30, 2004

Wow. What a terrible post. But such a nice happy ending! Admirations go to hpsell and languagehat for their civility and grace.
posted by mds35 at 11:18 AM on December 30, 2004

*passes out cookies*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:19 AM on December 30, 2004

I just think it's hilarious that a thread celebrating our new-found civility got pretty durn uncivil over the use of a single character.

(I was definitely pleasantly surprised by the turn of events over in the original post, though. A genuine change of heart, like Scrooge, or just a temporary holiday respite, like that famous WWI soccer match? Guess we'll have to wait and find out.)
posted by LairBob at 11:23 AM on December 30, 2004

I agree in relation to Sidhedevil's civilised response. Something tugged at my diminishing memory, and a couple of clicks confirmed that Sidhedevil suffered a pile-on with that oh-so-tricky first post, back in June.
posted by apocalypse miaow at 11:25 AM on December 30, 2004

*passes out cookies*

what, no milk??
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on December 30, 2004

Mefi would return to the civilized days of yore in just a few weeks.

except that it is not possible to return to where you have never been, but thanks for the revisionist history lesson!
posted by quonsar at 11:35 AM on December 30, 2004

*eats cookie, passes out*
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:37 AM on December 30, 2004

Dude, I thought you were bringing the milk.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:41 AM on December 30, 2004

I don't have any milk. Cookies and tequila?
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on December 30, 2004

Sweet. I can't take all that lactose, anyway.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:44 AM on December 30, 2004

Faced with evidence that people who make bad posts can still be reasonable, do you think we can cut out the outright (unfunny) meanspiritedness? There are some people (whom I won't name) that seem to go out of their way to act like twits whenever the opportunity to make fun of someone who's fucked up comes along. It's unhelpful, childish, and frequently poorly done to boot.

On preview: cookies & tequila sounds gross.
posted by kenko at 11:48 AM on December 30, 2004

hpsell, my apologies and my admiration for your upstanding response to the mess. But still, Jesus...
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:48 AM on December 30, 2004

On preview: cookies & tequila sounds gross.

perhaps, but there's two pluses: one you'll be too drunk to notice the taste, and should you get sick, you'll have an opportunity to literally toss your cookies.
posted by jonmc at 11:54 AM on December 30, 2004

*pours soyjoy into glasses, passes him/her out*
posted by me3dia at 11:54 AM on December 30, 2004

what kenko said.
posted by amberglow at 11:56 AM on December 30, 2004

Yummm....Tequila

amberglow can have my cookies.
posted by Floydd at 12:08 PM on December 30, 2004

a couple of clicks confirmed that Sidhedevil suffered a pile-on with that oh-so-tricky first post, back in June

And look how much better my FPPs are now!

However, do note that that was a Friday and I was (overly) relying on the Friday Fun slackmosphere to make up for the monolinky failings of my post.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:09 PM on December 30, 2004

Lesson: if you screw up, you will get yelled at; if you don't take it personally but apologize and promise to do better, you will be accepted.

While true, this does not diminish the fact that the jackals who pile on are worse offenders to the tone and spirit of the site than the person who makes the weak post.
posted by rushmc at 12:15 PM on December 30, 2004

And look how much better my FPPs are now!

By which I mean, "not hideous" because I am only a passable FPPer. But I do cling to my passability with great pride, considering how far I've come since "Keep Your Jesus Off My Penis.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:18 PM on December 30, 2004

mosch rules.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:20 PM on December 30, 2004

Dammit, hpsell, I got piled on and piled on some more when I tried to fight back. How dare you figure it out your first time out?

I'm jealous.
posted by Doohickie at 12:28 PM on December 30, 2004

Quonsar:

The "days of yore" bit was intended to mean "the way we remember things back when", which isn't necessarily how stuff actually was, but how we'd like it to have been.

Perhaps I should have said "the carefree past that never was".

Either way, in the end, I just mean "a Mefi with less snark and bitterness".
posted by Bugbread at 12:39 PM on December 30, 2004

Mosch rules for digging out an animated gif that's been missing for a few months?
posted by me3dia at 12:40 PM on December 30, 2004

Incidentally, here is how *not* to respond to criticisms of your post:

Sidhedevil: "is this really FPP-worthy?"

fleener: "If you want to debate FPP-worthiness, I'll drum up a list of 100 pathetic FPP submissions."

...which would accomplish what, again, fleener? Man I hate it when people bitterly (and stupidly) defend their own posts in the comments, not even letting half a dozen comments come trickling in before they start back-biting. Obviously you think the post is worthy if you posted it. Let other people have a reaction to it fer chrissake, even if that reaction isn't 100% adoration. Chances are with most posts that various people will react in various ways. That's normal. Let it be.
posted by scarabic at 12:47 PM on December 30, 2004

Anyone tell hpsell about this thread or Meta-Talk?
posted by thomcatspike at 1:31 PM on December 30, 2004

Yes, good show, hpsell!

me3dia: take another look.

tcspike: languagehat linked to it in the thread.
posted by taz at 1:40 PM on December 30, 2004

I agree; hpspell took it like a champ.

Cookies and tequila for all.
posted by mosch at 1:56 PM on December 30, 2004

Wow, amazing how much less snarky cookies and tequila make things.
posted by eriko at 2:01 PM on December 30, 2004

Just wait till the tequila starts to kick in. From personal experience, it won't be all sweetness-and-light then.

I was weaned on tequila.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:04 PM on December 30, 2004

Should I make some lemon cookies?
posted by sciurus at 2:14 PM on December 30, 2004

me3dia: take another look.

Oh. Oh my.
Well, then. I change my position.
posted by me3dia at 2:18 PM on December 30, 2004

My first post went OK. Then, I posted a link to a Lennon lyric (with MIDI!) and enjoyed an entertaining and instructive evening at the woodshed.
posted by crunchburger at 2:54 PM on December 30, 2004

Should I make some lemon cookies?

Yes please. I love lemon cookies, and I have a strange feeling they'll go well with tequila.

*grabs tequila bottle from mosch, takes a swig*
posted by languagehat at 2:55 PM on December 30, 2004

Eh, if it's any comfort, hpsell, first posts almost always get slagged. I got accused of being a troll for mine.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 3:11 PM on December 30, 2004

"and the rest", should not be used in reference to people.

So that's why they changed the Gilligan's Island theme song! :)
posted by LouReedsSon at 3:11 PM on December 30, 2004

I like &c.
I like the way it looks, and I like the way it writes.
For many people it's an aesthetic decision, not a pretentious one.
oh, and p.s. I made up a joke for this thread. It's not funny.
Q. What do Surgeons Assistants do?
A. They Prep the patient, pass clamps and instruments, mop the surgeons brow and ect, ect.
posted by seanyboy at 3:37 PM on December 30, 2004

snobs.

&c.
posted by xmutex at 3:49 PM on December 30, 2004

*grabs tequila bottle from mosch, takes a swig*

Grabbing the tequila from the guy who did the goatse bunny? Braver soul than I. I'm opening a new bottle, besides, we'll need it for the lemon cookies.
posted by eriko at 3:50 PM on December 30, 2004

For many people it's an aesthetic decision, not a pretentious one.

I think what you meant to say was, "For many people, it's an æsthetic decision..."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:59 PM on December 30, 2004

Touche.
erm...
Touche~
erm...
Touchê
erm...
Touchè
No Damnit..
Touché
posted by seanyboy at 4:06 PM on December 30, 2004

*backs up trailer full of lemon cookies and tequila*

*beep beep beep!*
posted by sciurus at 4:28 PM on December 30, 2004

Y'all are too funny
[tosses party hats into the crowd]
posted by thomcatspike at 5:01 PM on December 30, 2004

Should I make some lemon cookies?

Lime cookies would go much better.
posted by kamylyon at 5:04 PM on December 30, 2004

::::hugs MetaFilter::::
posted by Quadroonian at 5:07 PM on December 30, 2004

First rule of first posts: never draw attention to yourself.
you know...like in spy school
posted by dhruva at 5:10 PM on December 30, 2004

We should have a Lemon Party to go with all our Lemon Cookies.
posted by Bugbread at 5:17 PM on December 30, 2004

Timely reminder: Yes, Metafilter is beyond lame. Another holiday due. Just one month this time. SE Asia once more.
posted by SpaceCadet at 5:33 PM on December 30, 2004

dunh-dunna-nuhnuh-na-na dunh-dunna-nuhnuh-na-NA

TEQUILA!
posted by jonmc at 5:38 PM on December 30, 2004

æsthetic

All right!

*puts on party hat*
posted by eriko at 5:59 PM on December 30, 2004

Mental note... avoid lame FPP Never draw attention to yourself . Drink tequila it makes you happy . Holiday due but think I'll avoid SEAsia for a few more days . Prefer to holiday in my own backyard
posted by doogyrev at 6:01 PM on December 30, 2004

there you go, eriko....

Ah ha ha ha (Ah ha ha ha)
Hey-eh-oh (hey-eh-oh)
Goomba-goomba-goomba-goomba (goomba-goomba-goomba-goomba)
Ah ha ha ha (Ah ha ha ha)
Ah ha ha ha (Ah ha ha ha)
Hey-eh-oh (hey-eh-oh)

Hey pretty baby can we go strolling (Don't you just know it)
You gotta be rockin when I wanna be rollin (Don't you just know it)


**forms conga line**
posted by jonmc at 6:03 PM on December 30, 2004

Tequila ain't got nothing on glögg. :)
posted by soundofsuburbia at 6:05 PM on December 30, 2004

ok, sos, in honor of the glogg:

My my, at waterloo napoleon did surrender
Oh yeah, and I have met my destiny in quite a similar way
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself.....
posted by jonmc at 6:07 PM on December 30, 2004

doogy!!!
posted by amberglow at 7:43 PM on December 30, 2004

Either way, in the end, I just mean "a Mefi with less snark and bitterness".

OW!!!!!
posted by quonsar at 9:55 PM on December 30, 2004

This thread, and the thread it's about, are why MeFi kicks Slashdot's ass.

That and posts about *nix updates.

"Dude! WTF is up with Line 348's improper parsing of the Narcissus Protocol?"
posted by NickDouglas at 9:56 PM on December 30, 2004

*takes the fish out of quonsar's pants and smacks jonmc upside the head for sticking that song in my head and gobbles up the left-over lemon cookies*
posted by deborah at 10:37 PM on December 30, 2004

dunh-dunna-nuhnuh-na-na dunh-dunna-nuhnuh-na-NA

TEQUILA!

*does Pee Wee dance on biker bar top*
posted by y2karl at 11:12 PM on December 30, 2004

oops, forgot to italicize!

*points in air ala Travolta in Saturday Night Fever*
posted by y2karl at 11:13 PM on December 30, 2004

Well, now I've seen it all. There's actually a song called "Q Fish Dance" (evidently by some mysterious group called "Q Fish"), with appropriately surrealistic lyics:

Q Fish Dance
Take a step to the left - and one to the right
And now turn round - do it on the other side

left hand on your hip - the right behind the neck
now hop around the room - always be glad

show us your teeth - and bang the head
your tongue until the nose - absolutely mad


Ref.:
Hey Everybody - c'mon dance with us
Do it now and do it fast !!!
This is definitely your last chance-
DO THE Q-FISH DANCE !!!!


2nd
Now shake your bones - the legs to the ear
shout the Q-Fish out - everybody wants to hear

Hoppin' round and round - with the tip of the toe
pull your finger out - until the end of the show

This is the happiest dance - you've ever heard
feel funny and amazed - we'll gonna paint the town red


Ref.:
Hey Everybody - c'mon dance with us
Do it now and do it fast !!!
This is definitely your last chance-
DO THE Q-FISH DANCE !!!!

SOLO

Ref.:(bis zum Abwinken)
Hey Everybody - c'mon dance with us
Do it now and do it fast !!!
This is definitely your last chance-
DO THE Q-FISH DANCE !!!!
___________________________

This is so going to be my theme for the new year: show us your teeth - and bang the head; your tongue until the nose - absolutely mad.
posted by taz at 12:38 AM on December 31, 2004

MetaFilter: Show us your teeth.
posted by loquacious at 1:29 AM on December 31, 2004

Faced with evidence that people who make bad posts can still be reasonable, do you think we can cut out the outright (unfunny) meanspiritedness?

Speaking as a fan, member, instigator, and target of meanspirited pile-ons, no. You have to take these things on a case by case basis rather than generalizing as we are all individuals.

When someone posts an unmitigated pile of crap and reacts like hspell to the subsequent callout then clearly milk, cookies, and golden sticky-stars for all involved are called for.

If the post is an umitigated pile of crap and the poster digs their heels in regardless out of a personal sense of infallibility, then an all-out wildly meanspirited lynching is most certainly called for.

When someone defends a post that is questionable but for a significant number of people, at least, can go either way, then it's really up to every individual member of MeFi to treat the situation as they see fit and in a manner appropriate to the potential offensiveness of the post in question (read: it's OK to get hysterical if the questionable post is really and truly potentially offensive to some people - like Rape Haiku or something).

That's my take on the topic, at least.
posted by Ryvar at 2:08 AM on December 31, 2004

Holy shit, I just clicked through to the thread in question, finally, and bunnygoatse made me laugh, a lot. But then, I've been drinking a bit. Where the hell did that come from?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:42 AM on December 31, 2004

Speaking as a fan, member, instigator, and target of meanspirited pile-ons, no.

Ban Ryvar, please.
posted by rushmc at 8:25 AM on December 31, 2004

When someone posts an unmitigated pile of crap and reacts like hspell to the subsequent callout then clearly milk, cookies, and golden sticky-stars for all involved are called for.

No, milk &c are called for for hspell, at least. The assholes were still assholes.
posted by kenko at 9:10 AM on December 31, 2004

Very nice callout, languagehat. Kudos!

I was cringing for hpsell, but he handled it all very well. Good advice for noobs: Shrug it off.
posted by Shane at 10:29 AM on December 31, 2004

Thanks, but it's starting to bother me that he hasn't shown up in this thread or elsewhere since his post blew up. If he was driven away and isn't coming back, I don't feel as warm and fuzzy about this thread.
posted by languagehat at 1:55 PM on December 31, 2004

It's the holidays, LH, and he did seem in fine spirits in his last posts. I wouldn't worry too much.
posted by LairBob at 3:27 PM on December 31, 2004

I'm still jealous.
posted by Doohickie at 12:27 AM on January 1, 2005

If he was driven away and isn't coming back, I don't feel as warm and fuzzy about this thread.

Oog. I'd send him an e-mail if he listed his addy in his profile.
posted by Shane at 3:54 PM on January 1, 2005

i've just been busy and a bit under the weather.

you guys and gals couldnt scare me off that easily
posted by hpsell at 11:41 AM on January 6, 2005