Asshole pass?

February 16, 2005 9:24 AM

Why is nofundy's continual rude and offensive behavior tolerated? The vast majority of his comments are caustic and intended to be insulting. His behavior is not new and surely not unnoticed. Does he have some asshole pass from Matt? If such a thing exists, can I get one too?
posted by dios to etiquette/policy at 9:24 AM (123 comments total)

dios, as someone who's tangled assholes with nofundy a time or two, my best advice is to just ignore him. He is of no consequence. There's a Yiddish phrase my girlfreind uses which translates roughly as "Talk to you, talk to the wall." That's what fretting about the like of those comments gets you. The wall dosen't hear you and you look nutty for yelling at it.
posted by jonmc at 9:27 AM on February 16, 2005

Matt, please give him an asshole pass. he's conceding he's an asshole, so...
posted by matteo at 9:29 AM on February 16, 2005

For what its worth: I'm all for arguing, trolling and the like. But, when a particular person seems incapable of anything more than just petty troll comments, it just seems...111ish.
posted by dios at 9:29 AM on February 16, 2005

oh, and btw dios, do you also report ParisParamus and SteveatLinnwood to the principal or do you do that only when you don't like somebody's politics? because, you see, PeePee and some of his buddies have pretty bad manners as well -- since you're so sensitive about manners
posted by matteo at 9:31 AM on February 16, 2005

I think it's called a passhole. He definitely has one. But, live and let ass.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:31 AM on February 16, 2005

oh, and btw dios, do you also report ParisParamus and SteveatLinnwood to the principal or do you do that only when you don't like somebody's politics?

matteo, pots and kettles, my freind. We all have our biases, and we're all less likely to complain about somebody being an asshole if we happen to agree with them. Hell, I often agree with nofundy on the issues, and I still find his discourse to be boring, obnoxious and uninsightful.

You have a point but it dosen't negate dios.
posted by jonmc at 9:34 AM on February 16, 2005

Well, seeing as how those guys hadn't been a prick to me, I didn't call them out. And what jonmc said. I also agree with tog.
posted by dios at 9:36 AM on February 16, 2005

THIS is what you label 'offensive'?

Another dissonant wing nut head explodes, another job well done. Congratulations all around.
posted by nofundy at 8:56 AM PST on February 16

heheh

...seeing as how those guys hadn't been a prick to me, I didn't call them out.

Oh! Well! That explains EVERYTHING! ;-P
posted by mischief at 9:39 AM on February 16, 2005

There are a few people on MeFi who are earnest about their political beliefs to the point of being snarky in their comments. We tolerate them because they mean what they say, no matter how snarky and angry their political beliefs make them. All of us have had moments like that; that's why it's not hard to understand why politics makes some people angry enough to snark almost all the time.

The difference between the snarkier MeFi pundits and a real, live, honest-to-goodness snark is that the pundits are actually nice if you approach them correctly. If you react to every snark with easy warmth and measured friendliness, you'll be surprised to find that most of those people are nice back; as long as you don't talk politics with them, everything's fine.
posted by koeselitz at 9:40 AM on February 16, 2005

everyone agrees with tog!
posted by quonsar at 9:40 AM on February 16, 2005

~chuckle~
posted by trharlan at 9:41 AM on February 16, 2005

Funny, I was just about to post this:

---------------
You're such an asswipe apologist. Surely you know better than that. Welcome to the Defenders of All Things Dubya club! | Another dissonant wing nut head explodes, another job well done. | Stfu and put W's pudenda back in your mouth. | I haven't been on the site that long, but I keep coming across interesting, well-researched threads interrupted each time by the same user who seems to curiously escape reproach.

---------------
posted by jenleigh at 9:42 AM on February 16, 2005

hey q, as an established institution here on metafilter, why do you keep getting banned but a guy like nonfundy who brings nothing to the table but caustic pedantry has free reign?
posted by dios at 9:43 AM on February 16, 2005

i'm not matt's style.
posted by quonsar at 9:43 AM on February 16, 2005

Also, people who take a minority position are entitled to, if not justified in, a higher level of snarkyness in their discourse. When you're the only, or nearly the only one in crowd, shouting, or using other devices to get attention makes sense. Her on Mefi, that would apply to anyone who actually likes the Bush Administration.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:44 AM on February 16, 2005

The difference between the snarkier MeFi pundits and a real, live, honest-to-goodness snark is that the pundits are actually nice if you approach them correctly.

koeselitz, when it comes to many other MeFiPundits, I'd agree with you. For example, foldy can talk covivialy about baseball, surfing and music, among other things, even with people he probably considers ideological enemies. But please show me some evidence of nofundy's alleged conviviality. Hell, show me evidence of him ever talking about anything besides how evil Republicans and Fundamentalists are.
posted by jonmc at 9:45 AM on February 16, 2005

Someone say asshole? This is hysterical--you're accusing nofundy of doing what you do?

But, when a particular person seems incapable of anything more than just petty troll comments, it just seems...111ish.
Look in a mirror, darling. And don't try to shut people up because they're on the other side from you.
posted by amberglow at 9:47 AM on February 16, 2005

Now, if you will excuse me, all of this talk of 19 year old lesbians motivates me to go masturbate furiously.

You were saying something, dios? Something about rude and offensive behavior?
posted by amberglow at 9:50 AM on February 16, 2005

Hell, show me evidence of him ever talking about anything besides how evil Republicans and Fundamentalists are.

I thought he posted something about CarTalk once, but I can't seem to find it now.

I find all of the members who are primarily here to speak for an ideology, left or right, amazingly tedious and useless. I wouldn't shed a tear if they all got banned, but some folks like 'em.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:51 AM on February 16, 2005

Paris, if you were a liberal your bullshit and rants and insults would have gotten your ass banned ages ago.
you'd admit that if you were a more rational man.

Matt is just reluctant to kick disruptive right-wingers out because you guys have a tendency to whine so much that you end up getting extra protection.

and dios, for a guy who's quick to label everybody he disagrees with with "tinfoil hat" etc, you have pretty thin skin. again, if you care so much about manners, learn some yourself.

but it's good to see that nofundy manages to chap dios and jenleigh (aka the InstaPundit-LGF link generator)'s virtual ass. nofundy makes fun of you guys because you come here rehashing tired neocon lines and you still argue that nobody could imagine suicide hijackings (well, nobody excapet Tom Clancy, millions of his readers, and those funny intelligence memos Secretary Rice made paper planes of in the months before tha attack). solution? come up with better shit. even if matt bans nofundy your arguments won't get any better. you'll just have one less user who calls them bullshit

having that said, I'd appreciate it if nofundy would tone the vitriol down just a bit. he's a good contributor to the site
posted by matteo at 9:53 AM on February 16, 2005

Look, as I already disclosed, I don't mind snarks, trolls, etc. once in a while. I admit to them wholeheartedly.

But, nofundy is capable of nothing else. The same can't be said for me in my already limited posting history. The fact that matteo and amberglow would support nofundy is not suprising in the least. If you had a modicum of intellectual honesty, you would concede that you would not be so tolerant of him if he was the opposite politically. But, put your partisan feelings above that.... its nothing new.
posted by dios at 9:58 AM on February 16, 2005

"The same can't be said for me in my already limited posting history."

dios, sweetheart, you really are coming across as a sanctimonious twit.
posted by mischief at 10:04 AM on February 16, 2005

When I first started reading metafilter, I remember immediately noticing nofundy and thinking "what a jerk". Unlike matteo, the fact that I share his politics doesn't make me think him less of a jerk. He's deliberately provocative, deliberately combative, because he's a crusader and the end justifies the means. Or so he thinks.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2005

Paris, if you were a liberal your bullshit and rants and insults would have gotten your ass banned ages ago.

Oh, in a pig's ass, matteo. Please show me the long history of banning strident lefties we have here at the 'Filter. But if you want to believe nofundy's some kind of brave warrior of the revolution for irritating a few conservatives (a task that has about a 0.2 degree of difficulty) you go right ahead.

Like I said before, oftenimes I agree with nofundy on the issues, but I still him to be a shrill, unfunny, tedious little bore. NTM, if we're gonna talk about thin skins, his is nearly monomolecular. For somebody who spews vitriol so freely, it dosen't take much returned for nofundy to lose his shit entirely. Seems he can dish it out, but he can't take it.
posted by jonmc at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2005

I can't believe how many people are already trying to write this off as politically motivated. Because of course ya'll aren't just letting nofundy slide on his consistently snide, rude, condescending comments that all sound like they came from The Big Book of Leftie Kneejerks because he's on the same side as you. Or because he tends to direct them at your favorite targets.

You were saying something, dios? Something about rude and offensive behavior?

Fifty-two comments isn't a pattern. Twenty-five hundred is. One bad comment on an off-day isn't a big deal. But you'd half to call out damn near everyone on the site with the bar set that low, amberglow.

On preview: what EB and jonmc said, especially about being of the same political stripe not making a difference in this case.
posted by Cyrano at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2005

As far as I can tell, I agree with nofundy's politics 110% - nay, 111%. But yeah, he really needs to tone down the knee-jerk vitriol and try to express himself more creatively and less kindergarten-schoolyardly. This comment:

Another dissonant wing nut head explodes, another job well done. Congratulations all around.

is pathetic. dios was mocking himself for poor proofreading, completely unrelated to any content, and nofundy saw that as an opportunity to make an idiotic, hateful comment that seeks to include the rest of us "on his side" as collaborators. Bleah.
posted by soyjoy at 10:22 AM on February 16, 2005

jonmc: hm, well, yeah, I was stretching it a little. But I was specifically thinking of this... which isn't snarky, really... it's trying to be helpful. And though he's a little mean these days, nofundy has been helpful in the past. "He's good, he's just full of anger. He can yet be turned from the Dark Side." (/yoda)
posted by koeselitz at 10:25 AM on February 16, 2005

I may not be funny (IYHO), but I least attempt to be. NF isn't and doesn't even try.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:28 AM on February 16, 2005

Once again, jonmc, EB & soyjoy take an objective, intellectually honest approach to the situation regardless of their own politics, and once again the PartisanBot squad make impotent, desperate attempts to coddle one of their own. Like a cockroach, nofundy has had the light thrown on him, and predictably certain folks have scrambled, scared of the light. For someone who hates when others create 'distractions' from an issue, amberglow, you sure don't seem to mind doing it in this case.

Matt is just reluctant to kick disruptive right-wingers out because you guys have a tendency to whine so much

nofundy makes fun of you guys because you come here rehashing tired neocon lines

omfg the irony
posted by dhoyt at 10:29 AM on February 16, 2005

If you had a modicum of intellectual honesty, you would concede that you would not be so tolerant of him if he was the opposite politically. But, put your partisan feelings above that.... its nothing new.
Your true colors are showing--you're the only one with intellectual honesty, right? you're non-partisan--is that what you're actually saying? is that you, Seth?

For someone with only 52 comments here to be calling someone else out--hysterical. It's funny tho--we know where you stood right away, dios. This is utterly politically motivated.
posted by amberglow at 10:30 AM on February 16, 2005

hey, dhoyt, when someone's just as insulting and partisan as the person he's calling out, it's important that it be noted. The subsequent insults are just reinforcing that.

It's not a distraction at all--this thread is calling nofundy out for exactly what dios does himself.
posted by amberglow at 10:33 AM on February 16, 2005

For what it's worth, I've given nofundy a pass because I think he's pretty easy to tune out. In political threads you can almost guess what he'll say and the part that cracks me up is that he's so into his pet causes that he's indeed become that which he detests. He's a anti-bush and anti-religion fundy. The "nofundy" name is comical in my opinion.

"stfu" is never an acceptable thing to tell others though. Dude gets a week off for that.
posted by mathowie at 10:36 AM on February 16, 2005

But yeah, he really needs to tone down the knee-jerk vitriol and try to express himself more creatively and less kindergarten-schoolyardly.

Exactly. That shrillness and unwillingness to brook dissent does his own causes so much damage that I have to wonder if he actually cares about them or is just a bully. There are plenty of ways to make his points without being an asshole and countless other MeFite's (including nofundy's inexplicable defenders, amberglow and matteo) have managed to do so. A reasonable, civil leftist should consider a cliche spouter like nofundy an embarrassment, if you ask me.

This is utterly politically motivated.

Then how do you explain the fact that liberals like soyjoy, cyrano, EB and myself (and countless others whom I know feel the same way) who decry his antics as well?
posted by jonmc at 10:37 AM on February 16, 2005

this thread is calling nofundy out for exactly what dios does himself.

So, amberglow, you agree then that nofundy engages in "rude and offensive behavior?"
posted by trharlan at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2005

Man, we sure do spend a lot of time bitching about pointless shit, don't we?
posted by graventy at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2005

Substitute "dios" for "nofundy" in this post and it still makes sense.
posted by caddis at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2005

nofundy's inexplicable defenders, amberglow and matteo

If this is "inexplicable" to you, jonmc, you haven't been paying attention.
posted by trharlan at 10:39 AM on February 16, 2005

It's not a distraction at all--this thread is calling nofundy out for exactly what dios does himself.

And yet you stop short of actually commenting on the issue at hand: nofundy's behavior.

It's hard to take your opinion seriously until you do at least that much.

Dios has displayed a fraction of the inanity in a fraction of the comments a fraction of the time. I don't understand why you'd even compare the two. Case in point: I didn't even know there was a user named "dios" until this thread, and I've been here a pretty long time.
posted by dhoyt at 10:41 AM on February 16, 2005

If this is "inexplicable" to you, jonmc, you haven't been paying attention.

tharlan, with all due respect. I know amberglow in real life, he's a freind and while we don't always agree, he's a decent and reasonable guy. I don't know matteo IRL, but, generally, I can say the same.
posted by jonmc at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2005

they both do, trharlan--that's why it's hysterical--and a stupid callout. nofundy's behavior and dios' is the same--dios is just too new for many of you who don't frequent political threads to have noticed--as matteo and i have.

It's an old old trick--calling someone else out for behavior you're guilty of yourself.

I think, jon, that if all you guys have been unhappy with nofundy, you should have said something years ago--Why now? (looks like a typical pile-on to me)
posted by amberglow at 10:43 AM on February 16, 2005

amber, I have called him on his bullshit, before. He tends to pitch a fit when you do so. I pretty much tune him out like radio static at this point.

I think what's mystifying us is why you're defending him so stridently, since if nothing changed but his politics, you'd want him gone. This misguided need to defend one's political allies no matter how insane they might act, is something that sinks people's credibility.
posted by jonmc at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2005

For someone with only 52 comments here to be calling someone else out--hysterical.

I've thought about calling nofundy out before. Is 500 comments enough? What's the magic number amberglow? As to why I didn't, I sort of figured there was an "ignore the troll" thing going on. I guess it was more of a "but he's our troll" thing.

It's not a distraction at all--this thread is calling nofundy out for exactly what dios does himself.

Take 52 of nofundy's comments at random and compare them to all of dios' (jenleigh grabbed three primo examples of nofundy at his worst. But, she reads Instapundit so they somehow don't count.) You really think you could come back here and say that again with a straight face?

"stfu" is never an acceptable thing to tell others though. Dude gets a week off for that.

I don't know what your policy is on such things, Matt, but I hope somehow nofundy will have a chance to respond in this thread if he wants to (hell, he can email it to me if he wants and I'll post it word for word.)
posted by Cyrano at 10:48 AM on February 16, 2005

Why now?

People have been calling out nofundy for years. Why now? Because dios was the latest in a long line of MeTa threads dedicated to him.

Fair enough that I think that dios hasn't exactly shown himself to be "fair and balanced" or entirely civil, but nofundy's actions speak for themselves.
posted by BlueTrain at 10:51 AM on February 16, 2005

I think, jon, that if all you guys have been unhappy with nofundy, you should have said something years ago.

amber, where have you been? Quite a few of us have made light ove called him on his vapid, contentless comments for years, yet it obviously doesn't sink in.

What does this tell you about someone who's been here several years?

nofundy has posted 91 links and 2433 comments to MetaFilter
and 1 thread and 8 comments to MetaTalk
posted by dhoyt at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2005

Man, we sure do spend a lot of time bitching about pointless shit, don't we?

It seems the community ate an extra bowl of Bitch Flakes this morning.
posted by Arch Stanton at 10:56 AM on February 16, 2005

jenleigh (aka the InstaPundit-LGF link generator)'s

But, she reads Instapundit so they somehow don't count.


Again, I haven't been here that long, but--

What's with the Instapundit jokes?

I'm not an Instapundit (or LGF) reader, have never mentioned them before and haven't linked to them. Is this an inside joke? MeFi is full of people who do link to punditry sites like that, but...what's the difference? Is that bad?
posted by jenleigh at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2005

If matt started kicking off all the assholes on Metafilter, there'd be no one left.
posted by crunchland at 11:05 AM on February 16, 2005

"He's good, he's just full of anger. He can yet be turned from the Dark Side." (/yoda)

Look how that turned out.
posted by biffa at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2005

crunch, my man, Kinky Freidman said that "Assholes are people who don't realize that they are assholes." Therefore, most of us don't qualify.
posted by jonmc at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2005

What's with the Instapundit jokes?

Some people have a need to pigeonhole anyone who questions them so they can blithely dismiss their arguments rather than engage with them.
posted by jonmc at 11:11 AM on February 16, 2005

What's with the Instapundit jokes?

It's a standard issue (although not overly original) slam on those on The Right (which, whether you believe it's accurate or not, is where some people have placed you. God help you trying to move out of that neighborhood if they're wrong.)

Look how that turned out.

I'm going to start reading all of nofundy's comments in a Darth Vader voice in my head. Bet that helps ;)
posted by Cyrano at 11:12 AM on February 16, 2005

I certainly haven't read all of dios' comments, amberglow, so if you're going to make the case for a one-to-one correspondence between dios and nofundy in terms of over-the-top crap, please do so. The one comment you've referred to explicitly is not "rude and offensive" at all. I mean, it might be offensive on the front page of the NYT or something, but in context, it's obviously a standard jibe at heterosexual males and their seemingly conflicting feelings about lesbianism.

I was put off by this dios comment in the thread in question...

It would be neat if, before commenting with hysterical histrionics, the people here would (a) make an attempt at understanding the law and implications or (b) make an effort to actually read the legal agument.

because it's presumptuous, vaguely insulting and needlessly confrontational. But that's true of about a third of all the comments on political threads.

I know you're a smart guy and I find it hard to believe you can't grasp the distinction between that kind of garden-variety, adolescent jibe and nofundy's head-explodes garbage as part of his ongoing crusade/shtick. Come on. Seriously now. Did I miss some over-the-top dios outburst(s) somewhere?

As a side issue, I didn't know "stfu" was a weeklong-ban offense. A chart of these things would sure help.
posted by soyjoy at 11:16 AM on February 16, 2005

I'm going to start reading all of nofundy's comments in a Darth Vader voice in my head. Bet that helps ;)

I hear them in Lucy Van Pelt's voice, myself. I also try to imagine him stomping his feet, waving his arms and occasionally, foaming at the mouth.

It helps a lot.
posted by jonmc at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2005

So far everything that jonmc has said in this thread is dead on. The issue is a particular instance of behavior; its the repeated never-ending shrillness. I'd argue with amberglow over his points, but I'd rather engage in an exercise that is less frivolous like building my perpetual motion machine.
posted by dios at 11:17 AM on February 16, 2005

jenleigh-- links to Kos, DU, commondreams, etc are okay because they are well-respected and agenda-free websites.

LGF and Instapundit, on the other hand, are wingnut repositories, and anything that appears there has no business on MeFi.

It's, like, totally obvious.
posted by trharlan at 11:19 AM on February 16, 2005

The issue is not a particular....


I think I picked the wrong week to quit freebasing.
posted by dios at 11:20 AM on February 16, 2005

It's also worth noting that nofundy, since he's been a member of the site, has (unsurprisingly) never posted an email address so any offsite communications would have been impossible anyway. I wonder how mathowie alerted him of his bannedness.
posted by dhoyt at 11:24 AM on February 16, 2005

dios: Stop insulting people because they disagree with you--and frivolous is the perfect word to describe this thread. Your words here, and elsewhere, exactly prove my point about your likeness to nofundy. People in glass houses...
posted by amberglow at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2005

Therefore, most of us don't qualify.

But wait ... if you think you don't qualify, then that makes you one, doesn't it?
posted by crunchland at 11:27 AM on February 16, 2005

In political threads you can almost guess what he'll say and the part that cracks me up is that he's so into his pet causes that he's indeed become that which he detests. He's a anti-bush and anti-religion fundy. The "nofundy" name is comical in my opinion.

Oh man, that is so right on. Heh.
posted by sciurus at 11:28 AM on February 16, 2005

jenleigh: "What's with the Instapundit jokes? "

I expect this has to do with your weekly post highlighting the warblogger talking point of the moment. Looking over your posting history I cannot find a single item that has not been discussed on a right-wing weblog. In itself, I'm not sure there is anything wrong with this and your by no means the only person guilty of being a one-topic poster, but it isn't hard to figure out the Instapundit and LGF references.
posted by cedar at 11:34 AM on February 16, 2005

Actually, I kind of like having nofundy around, mostly for the reasons that mathowie states above. He throws elbows like few others I know, but it adds a bit of color to the proceedings. And I say this having been blistered by a nofundy attack more than a few times, and we are mostly of the same political orientation. As far as it goes, the only person who's guilty of the same kind of thing on the right (other than 111) is David Dark, and I haven't seen too much of him lately. I don't think it's fair to put Paris in that category. I rarely, if ever, agree with him, but I have yet to see him be less than courteous or good natured in his arguments. Similarly, Hama7 and MidasMulligan (haven't seen too much of them lately, either). They sometimes have inserted their beliefs into threads, as non-sequitirs (which can seem a bit trollish), but they don't rant and rave, call people idiots and tell them to STFU. FWIW.
posted by psmealey at 11:48 AM on February 16, 2005

I've long thought that nofundy should just get it over with and drop the -dy from his name. Glad he's gotten a time-out, finally.
posted by me3dia at 11:50 AM on February 16, 2005

Matt gave nofundy a week off, and dios 'got told' by nofundy's supporters. Why is this thread still open? I think all matters have been taken care of. I mean damn, close the fun threads and leave the piles of shit open? Wtf?
posted by FunkyHelix at 11:52 AM on February 16, 2005

As I noted in jenleigh's thread:

nofundy isn't really a person. It's simply a script programmed to spit out lefty talking points and "clever" misnomers in seemingly random order. The algorithm is structured to insert "Bu$h" "Shrub" "Annthrax Coulter" and "Asscroft" as frequently as possible.

I still believe that to be true, having seen no evidence to the contrary.
posted by pardonyou? at 11:52 AM on February 16, 2005

One thing I don't like is when folks posting in a thread (usually another one that slams the Powers That Be) start asking about "I wonder what X will say about this?!" in that weird internet gotcha tone. It makes them seem petty.

I mean, I'd love such a reputation that folks feel the need to invoke my dread name (three times in a mirror on the night of the full moon, mind you) whenever possible, but calling out folks to a show down at the Post-Reply Corral could be why so many of the political threads turn into 100+ comment disasters. It also encourages the responding party to be curt and defensive from the moment they appear.

So, uh, like, don't be a jerk or something.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:11 PM on February 16, 2005

Oh for god's sake! We're all adults here, right? If you want to go play beanbag, go play beanbag. But politics ain't beanbag.

If you want to discourse on political topics that many people take seriously, don't be surprised if sometimes they get seriously pissed.

Christian fundamentalists honestly believe that gay marriages will somehow devalue their own marriages. Gay-rights activists are honestly pained that they can't be legally wed to those they love. Everyone and his brother thinks "the other side" spends all its time plotting to deprive them of their rights or traditions or way of life.

And you expect that no one will ever get so pissed he adopts a strident and hectoring tone when discussing these things? Puh-lease! You volunteered to discuss the politics, you've transgressed the bounds of politeness in your own way, and crying foul now is just disingenuous.

That you just happen to indict someone you disagree with, rather than those of your ideology who are as shrill as nofundy only makes you appear even less credible.

To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, regardless of what nofundy writes, "it neither picks [your] pocket nor breaks [your] leg." If it hurts your feeling, well, that's part of being an adult.
posted by orthogonality at 12:15 PM on February 16, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

One thing I don't like is when folks posting in a thread (usually another one that slams the Powers That Be) start asking about "I wonder what X will say about this?!" in that weird internet gotcha tone. It makes them seem petty.

Amen.

What a shock that one of the "gotcha!" people in that instance was......nofundy.
posted by dhoyt at 12:18 PM on February 16, 2005

And you expect that no one will ever get so pissed he adopts a strident and hectoring tone when discussing these things?

Should such a tone be the exception or the rule?
posted by Cyrano at 12:22 PM on February 16, 2005

hey, beanbags can get pretty political.
posted by Cassford at 12:29 PM on February 16, 2005

i think he's funny.
posted by y0bhgu0d at 12:33 PM on February 16, 2005

If it hurts your feeling, well, that's part of being an adult.

You only have one feeling, dude?

Times are hard.
posted by jonmc at 12:42 PM on February 16, 2005

dios wrote: nofundy is capable of nothing else. The same can't be said for me in my already limited posting history.

The issue is a particular instance of behavior; its the repeated never-ending shrillness.

From dios' posting history:

What the fuck are you talking about?

You made a bullshit statement. I called you on it.

What a bunch of queens.

They are equally asinine blowhards (although, neither has anything on you).

I guess you have shown that you are beyond embarassment over your weak partisan shilling.

But don't let that stop you from tripping over yourselves to be melodramatic.

Can you people read?

I'm in no way defending nofundy's track record, but this is an egregious case of the pot bleating loudly about the dark hue of the kettle. Seriously, dios - if you don't like caustic political debates, stop repeatedly engaging in them.
posted by gompa at 1:07 PM on February 16, 2005

jonmc commiserates "You only have one feeling, dude?"

Yup, it's the economy man.

All I've got left is "eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man".
posted by orthogonality at 1:13 PM on February 16, 2005

When it's time for nofundy to go to the undiscovered country, he'll probably find himself locked in a room with this asshole for all eternity.
posted by casu marzu at 1:15 PM on February 16, 2005

So True For U???
posted by mischief at 1:22 PM on February 16, 2005

When it's time for nofundy to go to the undiscovered country...
Was that the Star Trek movie with the blond guy from Square Pegs?


and what gompa said.
posted by amberglow at 1:24 PM on February 16, 2005

Was that the Star Trek movie with the blond guy from Square Pegs?

Nah, Johnny Slash was in the Wrath of Khan. KHAN!!!!
posted by psmealey at 1:31 PM on February 16, 2005

His name is Merritt Butrick.
posted by psmealey at 1:33 PM on February 16, 2005

As long as we're on the subject of Star Trek...how come all female aliens, on the various Trek mutations and elsewhere always have black hair in blunt bangs?

Are they trying to tell me to beware of the blunt-banged?
posted by jonmc at 1:42 PM on February 16, 2005

I'm agnostic about this particular dispute, but Nofundy asked me to post this comment of his as a favor. So, here it is :

"Gee,

Its so nice to be loved. Thanks y'all!

I am a mirror in a harsh light.
My response is generally commesurate with the bullshit I see.

I apologize and am truly sorry that I offended you.
I mean only to shine a light upon your own ugliness.

And thanks for all the nice name-calling in the thread.
Makes me feel all warm inside.

Love,
nofundy
posted by troutfishing at 4:21 PM on February 16, 2005

nofundy, my horse said to say he's upset that you never call.
posted by jonmc at 4:39 PM on February 16, 2005

wb trout!

If nofundy was a mirror, he would reflect the bullshit proportionately. But he doesn't. I agree with most of his views, but he expresses them in such a choad-like manner they become impossible to digest. He's a one-trick pony. The S@L of the left here, but more offensive, and less smug.

Matt said it best: nofundy has become what he claims he despises.
posted by cosmonik at 4:40 PM on February 16, 2005

Jeez, I get a job and I miss out on all this fun!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 4:47 PM on February 16, 2005

trout! mwahh!!!! : >
posted by amberglow at 4:50 PM on February 16, 2005

hey hey, I think we forgot this one:
"comments like nofundy's are what's wrong with the left"

troutfishing!
posted by mr.marx at 4:53 PM on February 16, 2005

and yeah, how ya doin', troutmeister?
posted by jonmc at 5:01 PM on February 16, 2005

I apologize and am truly sorry that I offended you.
I mean only to shine a light upon your own ugliness.

I can't put my finger on what makes that apology sound so....sincerity-deprived....


And thanks for all the nice name-calling in the thread.

This from the person being called out for 'asswipe', 'wingnut' and 'put W's pudenda back in your mouth' in this very thread.

mathowie: any way you could sort of accidentally misplace nofundy's account for a month or so?
posted by dhoyt at 5:08 PM on February 16, 2005

"stfu" is never an acceptable thing to tell others though. Dude gets a week off for that.
posted by mathowie at 10:36 AM PST on February 16

Good luck with that rod for your own back, matt. I think you just announced an unenforceable standard, which can only inflate members sense of resentment when STFU, and its equivalents, is uttered by the next member who hasn't got the memo.

a particular person seems incapable of anything more than just petty troll comments, it just seems...111ish.
posted by dios at 9:29 AM PST on February 16

Bollocks, witch hunt, hypocrisy:

Confirmation bias.
Or "how to believe in hooey."
What? Don't know what that is? Ask Shermer, he's good at explaining it.--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39551#852102

What yerfatma said.
posted by nofundy at 3:41 PM GMT on February 12--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39534#851264

There now, its fixed.

Is the "div: position absolute" non standard ?
posted by leighm at 4:51 AM PST on February 12

That's the correct approach.
Shall I tell you the answer or are you capable of researching it yourself?
Can we all agree that if it is not a standard then this is NOT a bug?
Bonus question: Which is more standards compliant and thus most suitable for "office use?"
If this is non-standard then the correct response IS to say "fix the code in the page."
Personally, I hate the "use IE only crap."
posted by nofundy at 3:14 PM GMT on February 12--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39534#851250

Fried eggs and ramps.
Mountain oysters.
posted by nofundy at 7:47 PM GMT on February 11
--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39510#850658

Without a doubt, the best of the web. Thanks.
posted by nofundy at 6:37 PM GMT on February 10
--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39475#849536

The Virginia Plumbers Union surrenders.
posted by jonmc at 7:57 AM PST on February 10

Haha!
Beat me to it!
Do butt cracks even count or is it just underwear that's vulgar and offensive? I've seen some pretty cute thongs showing!
posted by nofundy at 4:08 PM GMT on February 10
--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39466#849325

The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver sums up this type of missionary well.

Seriously, did anyone NOT see this coming?

Call bullshit all you want but this so typical that I'm prone to credit it accurate until its proven otherwise.
posted by nofundy at 4:14 PM GMT on February 10 --http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39455#849339

NPR did a book review on this recently. Thanks matteo.

Hi Trout!!!
posted by nofundy at 3:19 PM GMT on February 10
--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39445#849238

Segregation is not an answer.
posted by nofundy at 6:07 PM GMT on February 9
--http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39436#848293

Firefox saved the setting for me after I set it to false.

Shut the browser down and brought it up, still good.

For those who don't know, type about:config in the address space, find the network.enableIDN (its alphabetical), then click on it to change the setting.
posted by nofundy at 7:43 PM GMT on February 7 --http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/39366#846304
posted by dash_slot- at 5:10 PM on February 16, 2005

so, dash, that's what 5 or 6 civil comments out of almost 2500?

With a batting average like that he'd be cut from even the junior varsity.

Your hearts in the right place, dash, but, you know something, I don't want him banned. I'm just glad that this thread shows me that most users here hold nofundy in same contempt that I do. And no matter how he deludes himself, it's not his politics , it's just him. Plenty of people have expressed same opinions he has without being dicks (not to mention bad writers.)
posted by jonmc at 5:17 PM on February 16, 2005

From nofundy's user page:


Don't like my humor? Get over yourself.

He has humor? In our culture, nofundy, humor is generally supposed to be, well, funny.
posted by jonmc at 5:18 PM on February 16, 2005

All from the first page of nofundy's user comments jonmc. I'd hazard a guess that they average out over his history.
I am the last person to argue for a rude, obnoxious, avowedly 'trolling' member - yeah, I'm looking at you, dios - on many occasions, I've argued that Metafilter's culture of incivility is its greatest flaw. That doesn't take anymore, so I don't go there nowadays. If we are banning someone for an infringement, we ban 'em all.

Or we shut the fuck up about it. Which course is fairer?
posted by dash_slot- at 5:23 PM on February 16, 2005

I don't think anybody who has known dios outside the site is especially surprised by this. He can be decent, at times, but this is pretty much an open and shut case of the pot calling the kettle black - and nofundy has been in his crosshairs for a long, long time.
posted by Ryvar at 5:52 PM on February 16, 2005

STFU... for over 100 pages worth of results.

And, oops, I didn't search for "shut the fuck up"... that's another 125 pages of bannable offense.

As always, the bannination hammer is weilded seemingly at random. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it should be done more or less silently, otherwise the inconsistency starts to become painfully obvious.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:53 PM on February 16, 2005

Trout, good to see you here again. I miss you. Please come back and enlighten us with you wisdom, delight us with your posts and just join the fray again.

I agree with fff, this new banning offense of "stfu" seems to have come out of nowhere. While almost always being inappropriate, I do not ever remember anyone being banned just for that. You might want to enlist rushmc's help to enforce this baby. He likes rules. (rushmc, do not take this as an insult, I think you rock, even though I many times disagree with your style.)
posted by caddis at 6:00 PM on February 16, 2005

nofundy makes fun of you guys because you come here rehashing tired neocon lines

And the dung beetle quickly scampers out to protect his turd ball...
posted by Krrrlson at 6:19 PM on February 16, 2005

mathowie: any way you could sort of accidentally misplace nofundy's account for a month or so?

Mr. Torch and Pitchforks dhoyt needs a rest as well. Everytime I come back here, there he is whining about something or someone. It's fingernails on the blackboard the way he goes on and on and on. There's a guy for whom the sentence Get a life was written.

And I have to admit ryvar nailed it about dios: this is nothing but a grudge post--now full of grudge comments.

the inconsistency starts to become painfully obvious...

Indeed. There's too much of the banning and deleting. The place has grown too large for the pruning to be anything but arbitrary.
posted by y2karl at 6:22 PM on February 16, 2005

And gratuitious insult king jonmc has made a career out of going after nofundy, let it be noted.
Here he is grinding his favorite ax. There's a grudge commentator par excellence.
posted by y2karl at 6:24 PM on February 16, 2005

and you've made a career out of defending him, for reasons that baffle me. Seriously, what do want, all of us to pretend we think he's just a swell guy just so's we can make you happy? And anyone who spews as much bile as nofundy does has abdicated any standing to bitch about insults hurled his way.

and what's gratuitous? He claims he's "humorous," I think he's about as funny as a casket and I said so. What exactly is your problem? do you find opinions contrary to your disturbing?
posted by jonmc at 6:31 PM on February 16, 2005

jonmc: I find nofundy amusing (and not in the way Matt does), but then I find a lot of things amusing that other people do not, so I'm probably not the best judge. I can see how you might not.

y2karl - thanks. I appreciate it, especially in light of our past difficulties. This thread really was GrudgeFilter from start to finish.
posted by Ryvar at 6:38 PM on February 16, 2005

There's a guy for whom the sentence Get a life was written

There's a grudge commentator par excellence.


Ok, karl, I see what you're doing: taking negative traits that have been justifiably assigned to you over the years and foisting them on others to make some metameta point about hypocrisy. I'm not falling for it. Surely you've got better things to do as someone who presumably Has a Life.

Swooping in at the end of the thread to defend a user who has said, in effect, "take your mouth off the president's dick"—and to declare it as "whining"—shows you have no idea what MeTa is for. Are war protesters whiners? Are people who submit comments to the Complaints department of a company whiners? Are people who call Sprint customer service to report a problem with their DSL whiners? No--they're using forums for their intended purpose. And if no one had "whined" about nofundy in MeTa today, finally, he'd have gone on calling people asswipe apologists. As a respectful guy yourself, I'm sure you'd agree that's a bad thing?

We've all had some tempermental, unflattering moments over the years, but we've also acknowledged it and often apologized. You think nofundy would ever become human for a second and do the same? (and no, this doesn't count). Dios strikes me a tempermental guy himself, like the rest of us hotheads, but his comments also sound like a human being is typing them instead of executing a script.
posted by dhoyt at 6:57 PM on February 16, 2005

karl, your comments in this thread strike me as below your usual rational standard, and I can only think that they were prompted by whatever animosity you hold against jon. He may have a grudge against nofundy, but that doesn't invalidate his criticism.

I think dios and nofundy are equally abrasive in their posting styles, and am not surprised to see one calling out the other. Perhaps a grudge did kick this thing off. But when the majority of nofundy's contribution is faux-outrage, I think some criticism of him is warranted. Hopefully he (& others called out in this thread) might think a bit more before posting in future; nofundy's not just some attention-loving troll, and if he wants to get his point across, maybe he'll adjust his style to the benefit of all.

Which makes this thread, as painful as it is, worth it.
posted by cosmonik at 7:20 PM on February 16, 2005

Well, nofundy's an abrasive type, no way around it. I find his commentary less than inspired but puhleeze, it's like Matt said--I think he's pretty easy to tune out. Noting that jonmc has a major hair up his ass about nofundy is noting that jonmc has a major hair up his ass about nofundy. A major hair. jon has gotten himself on my shit list and a number of piles ons here for coming in and taking a gratuitous personal whack at someone in the blue--or have we all forgotten his last crash-and-burn MetaTalk post that started with one such personal whack in the blue.

Speaking of which, need one link to any one of several Why's everybody picking on me??? comments there, Mr. He can dish it out but he can't take it ? Really, of all the crust--to say something like that about anyone else with your parchment thin skin, Mr. jon Q. Sensitive.
posted by y2karl at 7:47 PM on February 16, 2005

jon has gotten himself on my shit list

well, there goes my nights sleep.

In case you haven't noticed, karl, I'm not the one who posted this thread, nor have I called for his banning, and my advice to dios was to simply ignore nofundy. And I've reserved judgement on dios, since quite frankly he hasn't registered on my radar enough for me to form an opinion

But, y'know something, it's all ultimately of very little consequence. Matt's tried to create a community here, not a utopia. He never claimed that this place would, or even should be free of all the usual tribulations of the rest of the world. Communities are not often filled only with ideal people. People are going to be difficult, petty, tempermental, abrasive, whatever. That's life. Why should here be any different?

Noting that jonmc has a major hair up his ass about nofundy is noting that jonmc has a major hair up his ass about nofundy.

I won't deny that I don't like the guy. I'm under no obligation to, nor am I under any obligation to be silent when I think he's acting like an idiot, or to say I think his contributions have any merit when I think they don't. Sorry if that bothers you so much.

Really, of all the crust--to say something like that about anyone else with your parchment thin skin, Mr. jon Q. Sensitive.

I've taken far more greif for far less than nofundy, my freind. And, if you'll allow me a moment of immodesty, I've contributed far more of value.
posted by jonmc at 8:01 PM on February 16, 2005

i'm gonna take a wild guess and say he's reading this and laughing his ass of at you, jonmc.
posted by y0bhgu0d at 8:33 PM on February 16, 2005

gee, did you think that up all by yourself or did your mommy help you?
posted by jonmc at 8:38 PM on February 16, 2005

Not that anyone cares, now that the thread's about jonmc, but this made me realize I had missed a bunch of dios' more offensive comments, and had made a quick judgement based on more civil comments I'd seen in threads I'd been in.

That said, the wingnut-head-explodes comment that spurred this thread still tops any of those, and I stand by my opinion that nofundy needs to tone down the playground-style commentary. But I wouldn't have banned him, and as I noted above, the seeming arbitrariness of STFU suddenly becoming banworthy is kinda disturbing.
posted by soyjoy at 8:59 PM on February 16, 2005

soyjoy, please reserve your non-jonmc comments for another, more appropriate thread.

On a more serious note, I thought any kind of tempban on nofundy for a lil' STFU action is out of control, and in that regard it fits perfectly with the deletions, editing, and other bizarro activities across the tri-colour state of Meta.
posted by cosmonik at 9:02 PM on February 16, 2005

Just for the record, I think it's hilarious when one Mefite complains about how rude, offensive and snarky another one is. Ain't that what MetaFilter is for?
posted by davy at 9:04 PM on February 16, 2005

Not that anyone cares, now that the thread's about jonmc,

Which I suspect I'll catch hell for, even though it was y2karl who decided to make me the subject.
and soyjoy, I could be wrong, but I suspect that matt just wanted to give him a timeout and that was a convenient reason, or it's more the sentiment behind the expression the "STFU," than the "STFU," itself.
posted by jonmc at 9:04 PM on February 16, 2005

How peculiar. At dinner tonight when conversation turned to MeFi, dios came up in much the same negative light that dios places nofundy. All about the tone...

It's a funny world.
posted by juiceCake at 9:08 PM on February 16, 2005

MetaFilter: it's more the sentiment behind the expression
posted by quonsar at 9:30 PM on February 16, 2005

At dinner tonight when conversation turned to MeFi,

Now see, that's just fascinating to me. You have other acquaintances in your daily life who are not only familiar with the MeFi url, not only familiar with the purpose of the site, but familiar with the posting habits of specific (new) users. In a way, I kind of envy that. I'll occasionally talk to a friend who'll ask me what I did the previous night, and when I calmly explain that a big chunk of the night was spent posting comments to an online forum, they kind give me this look...and then slowly back away...I've always thought it would be great to have someone IRL who gave a good goddamn about MeFi as much as I did. My girlfriend, fwiw, took one glance and deemed it a huge "jackoff party". And that was just The Blue—lord help our relationship if she ever witnesses The Grey. Shit, I think I hear her comi--

/derail, but only to try to turn the conversation into something more productive...
posted by dhoyt at 9:32 PM on February 16, 2005

I could be wrong, but I suspect that matt just wanted to give him a timeout and that was a convenient reason, or it's more the sentiment behind the expression the "STFU," than the "STFU," itself.

I got the same impression - reading back over some of the comments, the offensiveness slowly accretes, without any one individual comment being bad enough to justify a ban. Then you come across a STFU and finally say, "all right, that's it!" It's the proverbial last straw.

The problem is that when you - you being Matt - then make a declaration isolating that one straw as the singular problem it suddenly becomes policy, and sows confusion, wailing and gnashing of teeth among the populace.
posted by soyjoy at 7:31 AM on February 17, 2005

*sports a giant foam finger that says jonmc is #1*

*sports a different finger for y2karl*
posted by dios at 8:41 AM on February 17, 2005

My girlfriend, fwiw, took one glance and deemed it a huge "jackoff party".

Interestingly, my ex felt the same way. In fact, of the net savvy people I speak with, they've all told me the same thing. But I don't hold too much stock in that opinion anymore because I realized that a group of guys I often hang out with appear extremely anti-woman, pro-violence (we always seem to find ourselves in all kinds of trouble), but if you get to know any of them individually, they're pretty smart people.

I think that the group dynamic lends itself to more people acting like assholes. People know they can get away with crappy behavior because they have their friends who back them up (nofundy, matteo, and amberglow). Anytime you see one in trouble, the other two are not far behind. There are other cliques here, of course, but this particular group is notable in this particular thread.

Anyway, I don't believe that there's any real way to correct this problem. When people are in groups, they care less about their individual actions. This is a huge group of people (21,000). Therefore, you're going to see a lot of crappy individual behavior. It's one of the perils of such a large community. And anytime Matt and jessamyn try to engage the individuals, their "posse" will invariably have their back, despite obvious wrong-doing.
posted by BlueTrain at 9:15 AM on February 17, 2005

I don't believe in this posse stuff. People have their unfavorites, people who irritate them and they go after them or if they see the names of those people who annoy them going after anyone, they are likely to react. What appears a clique is merely an aggregation of individuals who get annoyed by the same persons. It's not like they have tea parties or exchange CD's they burn.

It's like the difference between a visual double star and an actual double star in astronomical terms. The first is when two stars appear in the same part of the sky, like Mizar and Alcor in the handle of the Big Dipper, which two stars are in fact light years apart, as as opposed to, say, Beta Lyrae, where one star orbits the other.

I have had less contact with any of those you named as I have had with you, Bluetrain--which is next to nothing. Nor I do not agree with everything they write or the tone in which they write it. Pointing out the usual suspects are on a witchhunt here is not defending nofundy in my mind--I was as annoyed at the Defenders of All Things Dubya the first time I read it as anytime thereafter--it's just when the same people go after him here and one attacks him personally over and over in the blue, that I chime in. Especially the latter: two stupids do not make a smart. Not at all.

But I don't see those people as a posse. Saying there's a clique is stinkin' thinkin'. We are isolated individuals here when we write what we write. What you see as a posse is lazy thinking, an artifact of your presuppositions. There are no posses, not even among the #mefi crowd which ryvar has amply demonstrated here, seeing as both he and dios are members of that supposed clique. This clique stuff is bullshit. There are no cliques.

*sports a giant foam finger that says jonmc is #1*

*sports a different finger for y2karl*

So, it's now officially a grudgefilter post. Well, duh. Like we didn't know already.
posted by y2karl at 9:43 AM on February 17, 2005

Nor I do not agree with everything is supposed to be Nor I do agree with everything, let it be noted.
posted by y2karl at 9:46 AM on February 17, 2005

I don't believe that one needs actual contact with a person, in real life or otherwise, to have an affinity. Perhaps the terms "clique" and "posse" are too strong for what is happening here. Would you prefer the term "affinity"? Or perhaps "internet camaraderie"? My point isn't to paint the above three as villains, or even bad people, or bad members.

As I said above, my friends and I are often viewed as "bad eggs" in certain situations because we invite trouble. But we're just acting like jackasses; we aren't really bad people. I think the same applies here. If people showed more restraint when posting an "asshole" response, there would be no need to defend/attack anyone. I believe that there are a lot of great posters here who, because of their anonymity and whatever internal conflict, decide to let loose comments they wouldn't otherwise post if they were neighbors with Matt. And for that I don't believe there is any valid defense.
posted by BlueTrain at 10:04 AM on February 17, 2005

Boy, that was confusing. Two points: 1) People here who feel a certain kinship with each other defend each other despite wrongdoing (because it's human nature). 2) Anonymity allows them additional leeway to make rude or otherwise unnecessary comments.
posted by BlueTrain at 10:08 AM on February 17, 2005

*CHOO CHOO*
posted by dios at 10:09 AM on February 17, 2005

Please show me the long history of banning strident lefties we have here at the 'Filter

The Jesse Helms.
HarryHopkinsHat.
want more?


There are other cliques here, of course, but this particular group is notable in this particular thread.

poor BT. I'm sorry that people made fun of you at school, really.
posted by matteo at 12:04 PM on February 17, 2005

You make me feel all warm inside, matteo. Thank you.
posted by BlueTrain at 1:46 PM on February 17, 2005