Web forum marketing ploy alert.

January 28, 2006 7:57 AM

FYI, this msg was posted on the Penny Arcade blog today: (more inside)
posted by jonson to MetaFilter-Related at 7:57 AM (64 comments total)

(CW)TB

Hey guys,

I interviewed for a guerilla marketing business in San Francisco that targeted web forums.

I was told that if I accepted the job, I was to have at LEAST 50 identities on as many forums as I could muster (they wanted 100 eventually), with a goal of 5 posts an hour. The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in. And regular visitors would recognize the post as coming from a long time poster.

They had 12 people working there full time, and were hiring 10 more. You do the math. No wait, I'll do it for you: that's 880 posts a day (if minimum was met). However he said the better ones could do around 8 or 10 an hour. And they had different "verticals" so there was the sports guy, and the games guy, the hentai, excuse me I mean anime guy, etc.

But the most critical point was this: develop and integrate the identity. No random "HEY EB GAMES IS AWESOME BUY THIS" stuff.

Kinda spooky.

Didn't take the job. It was a fucking mill.

Just to be aware, in the future the Pepsi Blue could come from anyone, even relatively long-standing members of the community.
posted by jonson at 7:57 AM on January 28, 2006

Old news; really, really old news.
posted by mischief at 8:07 AM on January 28, 2006

I just wanted you all to know that Tide brand detergent gets my clothes clean and smelling fresh.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:09 AM on January 28, 2006

John Hathorne could be anyone, even a relatively long-standing member of the community.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:11 AM on January 28, 2006

Otherwise, you'd be called Not So Faint of Butt? or maybe Faint from Butt?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:11 AM on January 28, 2006

*waves to Tide fresh poopy butt*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:13 AM on January 28, 2006

What's this? I make $250 dollars off some sweatshop in SF? Awesome!
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:27 AM on January 28, 2006

mathowie: "What's this? I make $250 dollars off some sweatshop in SF? Awesome!"

Classic.
posted by Plutor at 8:33 AM on January 28, 2006

I really enjoyed reading this post on my new Dell Computer.
posted by selfnoise at 8:35 AM on January 28, 2006

And all for the low, low price of $5! That's right - five dollars!!! MetaFilter: It's not just an adventure - it's a job! Be everyone you can be! A roster of 1000, an army of 1.

MetaFilter may not be for everyone. Ask your doctor about MetaFilter if you are allergic to elephant piss or may become allergic to elephant piss.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:38 AM on January 28, 2006

selfnoise, while I've heard good things about Dell and in fact used to own one, I have to say that my shiny new Gateway blows it out of the water. Try one, you might be surprised!
posted by languagehat at 8:41 AM on January 28, 2006

If it takes five guerilla marketers five minutes to make five subtly placed marketing posts on MetaFilter, how long would it take 100 guerilla marketers to make 100 subtly placed marketing posts?
posted by driveler at 8:44 AM on January 28, 2006

Just keep pretending it isn't Apple.
posted by srboisvert at 8:49 AM on January 28, 2006

How do companies like that work? Does the grunt who makes the posts get a commission if the company's server logs referrals from the forum he was spamming, or what?
posted by Gator at 8:50 AM on January 28, 2006

driveler - five minutes, yes?? Do I win the Dell??
posted by jonson at 8:53 AM on January 28, 2006

I can't do the math on advertising schemes, but it seems like any one screen name would have to PepsiBlue us several times on several different topics to make it worth the $5. As mathowie hints (?), it may be a high enough barrier to entry to keep out the spamborgs.
posted by Aknaton at 8:53 AM on January 28, 2006

Also - mischief, while this may be old, old news, I can't remember any examples of it happening on Metafilter, our marketing selflinkers have always been first time posters, or at least relative noobs. Also, I can't remember the phenomenon ever being pointed out Meta (the phenomenon of companies recruiting sleeper agents to become community members in good stead until activated). Of course, based on the history of our own front page here, it's plausible that 50% of our active member base is currently employed by either Apple and/or Google.
posted by jonson at 8:55 AM on January 28, 2006

How do we know that I Love Tacos really enjoys tacos? Hmmmm....
posted by LarryC at 8:56 AM on January 28, 2006

While I agree that's an offensive way to market any product, from our perspective among the community, how paranoid should we be? Do we look at every recommendation with cynicism and ignore them out of spite? Isn't that cutting off our nose? I've discovered plenty of good books, movies, and albums from reading web forums. When I read an informative recommendation, I can decide for myself whether I'll like the product (I'm usually right); and if the recommendation isn't informative, it doesn't catch my attention.

I suppose what I'm saying is, if the community benefits from informative comments and worthwhile recommendations, I don't see much harm; and regardless, at what point does this become a parallel to terrorism with respect to, "If they're willing to invest enough time and effort, you can't possibly stop them without halting your entire society."
posted by cribcage at 8:56 AM on January 28, 2006

so, you're saying YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!!! Burn him, he's a witch!!!!!!
posted by jonson at 8:58 AM on January 28, 2006

I think jonson is double-secret-under-cover and is really just trying to throw us off of his trail.
posted by puke & cry at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2006

Without my new Pearl Vision glasses, this thread would be a blur...Oh wait, is one year and two days enough time to establish my identity here?
posted by lobstah at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2006

Apple: Consumerism for the self-righteous. Because sometimes fair trade baristas and emo bike messengers just don't have time to casemod a Linux server. And try our new iWanker Nano. We've replaced the headphone jack with a blue LED. Because your music is dangerously cool.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2006

If it takes five guerilla marketers five minutes to make five subtly placed marketing posts on MetaFilter, how long would it take 100 guerilla marketers to make 100 subtly placed marketing posts?

More importantly, how long would it take them to come up with enitre works of Shakespeare?
posted by crunchland at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2006

I've GOOGLED on this subject extensively, located the firm via GOOGLE maps, and GOOGLE-bombed the offending parties. GOOGLE: Providing the "Meta" in "MetaFilter" since 2001.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:10 AM on January 28, 2006

I think the point is clear. We need to ban everyone from San Francisco.
posted by crunchland at 9:14 AM on January 28, 2006

You can trust me. I'm a doctor.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 9:19 AM on January 28, 2006

You can trust us, too. Try Xaanaax. It makes you piss blue.
posted by Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2006

Christ, after pounding back a couple Red Stripes with friends at a local indie show, I stepped outside to light up a Parliament and check MeFi on my TREO, and I come across this garbage. It made me want to puke on my Pumas.
posted by Falconetti at 9:26 AM on January 28, 2006

We need to ban everyone from San Francisco.

But then San Francisco will be empty!
posted by cortex at 9:40 AM on January 28, 2006

drink your ovaltine
posted by cortex at 9:40 AM on January 28, 2006

i've been wanting another career for some time and wondered if something like this might be a good idea ... just as i was about to sign up, i got a phone call from my army recruiter and he explained to me that not only do i get money for my college education but i'll get real job training that will impress future employers ...

i think everyone here should check it out ... it might be the answer for you
posted by pyramid termite at 9:52 AM on January 28, 2006

but then the fbi called ... they offered me 500 bucks a month to monitor unamerican activities on the internet and the best part of it is, i don't have to pay the 5 dollar fee, because i'm already on ... uh, this place i'm talking about, which is probably something you've never heard of, no sir ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:56 AM on January 28, 2006

Isn't Ocean Spray™ refreshing?
posted by Cranberry at 9:59 AM on January 28, 2006

Excellent investigative journalism, jonson. Have a delicious Coke^TM on me.
posted by Rothko at 10:00 AM on January 28, 2006

posted by Smart Dalek at 10:12 AM on January 28, 2006

The reason I know this is old is because in 2001, I was part of a team that worked out a virtually identical marketing plan for several major players in the enterprise computing market. We used SlashDot as our proof of concept.

On the internet, everyone has an agenda.
posted by mischief at 10:29 AM on January 28, 2006

For the past few years, I've had this unexplainable desire to buy a pissing elephant.
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:33 AM on January 28, 2006

Yeah I worked for those guys. A couple years ago, I pimped a photo-sharing site here.

Unfortunately, my first comment was:

i like the flickr people, but dont really like metafilter being used to promote products and services...
posted by specialk420 at 9:59 AM PST on March 12 [!]

so I got kicked out.
posted by vacapinta at 10:34 AM on January 28, 2006

It surprises me that this is cost effective. But IANAA
posted by edgeways at 10:38 AM on January 28, 2006

IANAMSA (I am not a marketing sleeper agent)
posted by ori at 10:45 AM on January 28, 2006

Stop the rope and let me in or I'll go out and get some gin.

Delicious Gordon's Dry London Gin.
posted by Otis at 11:15 AM on January 28, 2006

my mother sent me this same exact thing in email on friday guys so i know its seriously legit for real.
posted by naxosaxur at 11:22 AM on January 28, 2006

One step ahead of you people. If you read my messages backwards, Ozzy Osbourne tells you to kill yourself.
posted by allen.spaulding at 11:22 AM on January 28, 2006

Just keep pretending it isn't Apple.
posted by srboisvert at 11:49 AM EST on January 28 [!]

Hear Hear! And Google!
posted by shmegegge at 11:27 AM on January 28, 2006

Whenever I come across an interesting post, I always make a note of it in my leather Designers Guild planner.
posted by Mick at 11:49 AM on January 28, 2006

Just got back from a bike ride on my great Trek bicycle and this is what I find?
posted by fixedgear at 12:20 PM on January 28, 2006

What troubles me is less the product placement than the pernicious pimping of ideas. If I read another person making like DEMOCRACY is a good idea and CIVIL RIGHTS are for everyone, well, I just don't know what I'll do. It's been clear for a while that groups like People for the American Way and the American Civil Liberties Union have had all kinds of deep operatives within the member basse here at Metafilter, and while you all fiddle, they promote the dry dry tinder of EQUALITY and JUSTICE. Laugh all you want, there's gonna be a reckoning.
posted by OmieWise at 12:48 PM on January 28, 2006

Hey, I hear where you're coming from, but I tried DEMOCRACY^TM and it worked for me! I slept better at nights and my sex life improved! Give it a shot!
posted by languagehat at 1:09 PM on January 28, 2006

/me draws up battle plan to take down the most established members via accusations.

Me: "Do you own an iPod? No! Then why did you pimp it?"
User #20x: "Pontius Pilate, God won't wash your hands of this!"
posted by Firas at 1:24 PM on January 28, 2006

Woah. Can we ban Vacapinta please?
posted by bonaldi at 1:44 PM on January 28, 2006

Can we ban Vacapinta please?

Don't look now, but something just whooshed right over your head.
posted by languagehat at 2:15 PM on January 28, 2006

I'm a shill for the British Toilet Association.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2006

Wait a minute. Just wait a minute. I get it now. Howie is in on the whole scheme. He's been waiting all these years to sucker us all in, and then, when he has us where he wants us - boom! He's hypnotising us with his marketing scam!

Beanz Meanz Heinz
posted by apocalypse miaow at 2:30 PM on January 28, 2006

Of all the sleeper-cell marketers Metafilter has had, MiguelCardoso was the best. He crafted the best stealth-advertising that was interesting and intriguing. Hats off to you, Miguel, wherever you are.
posted by crunchland at 3:18 PM on January 28, 2006

The internet gives everyone an equal voice.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 3:23 PM on January 28, 2006

Brooklyn – With 2.5 million people, the borough is bigger than San Francisco, Boston, Atlanta and St. Louis combined. The population is approaching the historic high of 1950, when Brooklyn was home to 2.74 million souls. Turn around, and you will see the renaissance.
posted by spaghetti at 4:05 PM on January 28, 2006

When you've said Root Beer, you've said it y2karl.
posted by y2karl at 4:18 PM on January 28, 2006

Its been a long time since migs posted , a long , cold heartrending time.
I've spent most of it watching the tumbleweed blow across the arid wasteland that mefi has become in his absence , surely we all realise how unworthy we were of the great man.
Im considering going to lisbon to beg him to come back.
posted by sgt.serenity at 7:00 PM on January 28, 2006

Neat, so there's like a quasi-alternate universe, where someone's job is to leave comments on MetaFilter all day, and they get fired because they get caught slacking off writing a report or fixing a technical problem.
posted by dgaicun at 7:48 PM on January 28, 2006

I just want to state, for the record, that I have no pecuniary interest whatsoever in White Horse Distillers. That is all.
posted by lagavulin at 11:21 PM on January 28, 2006

I guess I don't really understand the responses here. Are you guys (besides mischief) saying, "oh, yawn. We already know everything about this"?

Because it seems pretty interesting to me, and the *hay, look - I'm a guerilla marketer!* jokes, not so much.

No, it's not at all surprising that marketing companies will do what they can to try to insinuate their products in any way possible, but what's interesting is how internet communities will meet evolving challenges. It's interesting that at the heart of this ploy is the fact that many forums are a bit like small villages wherein a certain amount of trust is accorded those who've managed to establish a some level of identity, and it's interesting that most of us are much more likely to pay attention to testimonial endorsements from posters we feel we "know" to some degree.

Most of these shills, I think, will still be fairly hamfisted and not terribly good at the game (except for inserting viral ads, which doesn't take more than figuring out how to post a link) mostly because I think the money to be made as a worker bee probably isn't going to attract really effective writers... But I don't know. How good do you actually have to be? If you, as a marketer, get your product mentioned on dozens of community blogs, even if the posts aren't sparkling with with wit and charm, you still have that whole saturation thing going on... name recognition, etc.

It makes me wonder about many things, and definitely brings to mind quartermass' ideas of online capital.
posted by taz at 12:13 AM on January 29, 2006

This made me cry.

Luckily, I had some Zyrtec™ around to dry up my runny nose.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:14 AM on January 30, 2006

Given this part:

The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in.

...why should I care? Many people have an agenda and I'm certainly not above mentioning one of my projects in a comment if it's on-topic for the discussion. The only distinction I see is that I am sadly not getting paid to post anywhere. If companies want to pay people to be worthwhile contributors to MeFi or the like and mention a product when appropriate I can't say I'll lose any sleep over it.
posted by phearlez at 12:49 PM on January 30, 2006